“Protagonist” doesn’t necessarily mean “hero.” It just means “main character.” Also, Wendigoon’s video about Blood Meridian was one of many points In Praise of Shadows used when he tried (and failed) to cancel the guy.
While I do know what “protagonist”means, I suppose I should have made it more clear that I have positive connotative associations with the word “protagonist” - I’m sure many people do. And yes, that cancelling attempt did not go over quite so well. I love Isaiah’s content. Thank you very much for watching!
So actually, how the main character of a story is referred to as , ie "protagonist" vs. "antagonist" , depends on a few established literary rules. In regards to a story with 1 single, main character whose initial morality aligns with anything to the right of "chaotic evil" and is the "antihero" of the tale, can only be called a "protagonist" IF by the conclusion of the story, the reader or audience has developed or has held "sympathy" for the character. For example in a story with one main character, and that character is unjustifiably evil, and commits acts for their own selfish desires or evil intent, and the story concludes without any relevation or character arc, (our antihero is just a freakin psycopathic monster) whom the audience still perceives in a negative light, all the way to the end, then that character is referred to as the "antagonist" . Because the "antagonist" can ALSO be the main character of the story. A story with an "antihero" who has no redeeming quality nor are there any uncovered justifiable motivations for their actions, yet a story is being told about them, or their actions influence a story in any way, an evil character, antihero, who is our main character is the antagonist. Obviously the opposite term "protagonist" often used in regards to a heroic main character, can ALSO be used to describe a character who starts off, hated and evil, committing seemingly unjustifiable acts, but by the end of the story because of perhaps revealing historical context, or a redemption arc, or any reason in which the audience can not condemn this character in "black and white" terms as strictly "a baddie" can also be called the "protagonist".. However its important(btw Gen Z, there is a "t" in "important", just sayin :P) to note that whether or not a character is the "antagonist" or "protagonist" of the story CAN be very individually subjective, and even if agreed upon by the majority to be a certain way, can CHANGE over time. The only thing that is certain, is that the only people in a convo that have the right to label the character one or the other, is the person telling the story, and the audience who has already READ the story. And then of course the other deciding factor is whether or not the story has two main characters, one will always be the "good guy or gal or guygal" and the other will be the baddie. At that point the audience labels them accordingly. As someone who peersonally, has yet to read this book, i cannot comment on whether or not, the "Judge" who might be the main character, should be referred to as the "antagonist" or "protagonist" but if he is indeed the main character, but in this case the creator of this content, should be granted the benefit of the doubt for doing so, because only they know how that character made them feel. And if all this is true, then @OnThinIce used it correctly, if he meant the "Judge" was the main character , an "antihero" but he felt sympathetic towards the character at some point, then indeed the character is the "protagonist". I do not agree that "war" is the main character of this novel. Perhaps it is the main underlying theme or motif, but I dont consider it to be a "main character" so if "protagonist" was used in reference to "war" and not the "Judge" , then this whole convo is based on a fallacious argument to begin with, lol. Damn. I told myself to keep this concise and short before i started. I fucked up But I hope that helps. :)
I highly recommend the audio book version read by Richard Poe. First read it, if you haven’t then when you’re ready to read it again (because you’ll need to) listen to Richard Poe read it. His voice is so perfect it’s forever tied to this book for me
I've begun the Poe narration of this book and I can confirm that it's as good as you say, if not even better. An excellent and very tasteful recommendation, not to mention a highly immersive way to experience this incredible story.
I'm sure it's been said before but the production value here really feels like it belongs to a larger channel. Great analysis and I love the avatar lol
I do my best to make these episodes high quality, so I greatly appreciate your kind words. Plus, between you and me, I have been told that I’m quite a handsome penguin. And, of course, thank you for watching!
Man, that book still haunts me after reading it 10 years so. It kind of sticks with you. Great summary and exposition of a book that gets left off of many “must reads” but which is one of the very best in the 20th century.
Wow. Great video! I subscribed and imagine many more like me will follow. On the last point you made about the ambiguity of McCarthy’s world view; his final novel “The Passanger” is my favorite book of his. He worked on it for over 40 years, and it’s clear that he used it as a catalyst to bring his world view to light. In typical McCarthy fashion, it is all still as layered and beautiful as ever. All of this is to say that if you are interested in more insight in to his world view it’s a great novel to read and dig through!
I have been meaning to read The Passenger; maybe this is a sign to finally start. Thank you for the kind words, and for watching and subscribing! It really does mean a lot.
@@OnThinIceYT if you do read it, please don’t make the mistake of going in to it expecting a “no country for old men” type thriller. I’ve seen a lot of people become disappointed in the novel and struggle to get back in to it because it wasn’t what they expected. Think of it more as a Sutree style of novel. (With a little bit of a thriller twist) cheers to you friend and happy reading!
Good lord, I just watched this and assumed you had 100k subscribers at least. Insane video for someone with 80odd. Keep grinding and honestly I have no doubt you’ll have a massive audience, great content.
Thank you very much for the kind words, they mean a lot. There's certainly more content on the horizon; I'm just getting started. Thank you for watching!
Thank you for the warm welcome, and for doing all the like-comment-subscribe mumbo-jumbo. It really does mean a lot. And, of course, thank you for watching!
I love your clear, concise, precise, and informative storytelling style! It's also great because it comes without unnecessary opinions that often wastes time, which a lot of the commentary youtube community seem to attach themselves to whenever they drop a video...i find that with many in this category, their videos are mostly all personality but little with substance pertaining to the subject they're talking about. This video has a lot of subtance while also letting us see a little of your personality, which is welcoming not only bc it doesn't linger but bc you seem warm-hearted and sincere with what you research... Great video, thanks!
That particular passage is haunting to say the least. Some of the best-written and vivid imagery in all of fiction, to be sure. I'm glad you found the channel, too! Thank you very much for watching.
* Noticed some key misunderstandings in your essay... the Comanches and Apaches are not "Mexican natives".... as they were at constant war with Mexico.... Apacheria and Comancheria were never conquered by Spain or Mexico.... they'd be American natives if anything... also when you spoke of the kid and Nacogdoches you mentioned "ex-pat Civil War vets".... and as this takes place in 1849-50.... the Civil War is a decade and some years off.
It's always good to get some feedback from the eagle-eyed - I'm always looking for opportunities to improve my content. On your Civil War point, that was a mistake on my part. As for the Comanches and Apaches, their territories covered parts of Northern Mexico (particularly the Apache) and were there long before any Spanish settlers, hence my use of the term "native Mexican." Of course, "native American" works as well, since their territories also extended well into the American Southwest. Hopefully these details don't take away from the quality of this episode. Thank you very much for watching!
Read Glanton at the fire. His inner thoughts are told us while most of the others never get mentioned and are told externally. There's more here about determinism and freewill.
I appreciate your candidness. McCarthy certainly isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but the excellence of Blood Meridian in particular, I feel, demands respect at the very least. Thank you very much for watching!
You’re right, there are actually many interpretations of what happened from the scarce Bible verses about the war in Heaven. What I say in this video is based on what I found to be compelling for my video during my research; that being said, while not all Christians subscribe to this belief, it is a Christian doctrine and is taught by some denominational groups. I suppose I should have been more clear on that point. Thank you for watching!
I just don't quite get the purpose of this book. The way it revels in it's dark themes feels almost pornographic. I often like reading dark books because they have something to say. The story 'I have no mouth but I must scream' is one of my favorite stories despite it being an uncomfortable experience watching 5 humans being tortured endlessly at the end of the world but even in that scenario there is hope, and the flawed protagonist shows us that by the end of the story. The protagonist in the story is a blank dullard who doesn't seem to have any kind of emotion about what's going on. The pain in this book is meaningless the cruelty is meaningless and I can't help but wonder what the author was really trying to say.
Excellent comment, and good points. I think you hit the nail on the head, though: all the pain and suffering is meaningless, offering a picture of a world without hope. I don’t think we, as humans, are meant to like a story with no hope or happy ending; we’re just not wired that way. I also love “I Have No Mouth But I Must Scream” - maybe I’ll cover it in another episode soon. Thank you for watching!
The writing speaks for itself. McCarthy's prose is sublime. I take the kid to be more or less a stand in for the reader. He is only really active and apparent at the beginning and end of the novel. The novel itself is ambiguous, but that doesn't matter. The real world is even more ambiguous the more you bother to think about it. But there are very clear and apparent themes in it. Such as war and violence being inherent to human nature, nihilism. It's no secret that McCarthy was a very pessimistic man with pessimistic views about the world that shine through his works. I also wouldn't call the boy a blank dullard. I think McCarthy manages to write and characterize him well in the few passages he does. You can read alot about him just by reading what he says and does. Also, I fail to see any hope in IHNMAIMS. Unless you consider death to be hope. That story was basically meaningless torture porn in my eyes.
@@dreyri2736the hope in IHNMAIMS is that even though A.M had all the power, and had tortured the main 5 for years and decades and centuries, A.M preserving their lives so he can continue to hurt them. Ted is able to beat A.M by killing the entire crew in a swift moment, saving them from more pain and it is a selfless act by choosing to kill the others before him self. Sure in the end he becomes some slug thing but he was able to take away the one thing A.M enjoyed. He took away his A.M purpose and saved his people. It doesn’t sound hopeful on paper but I interpret it as even in the most horrific situations, where death is the greatest gift obtainable, humanity finds a way to furfil it.
It’s good that you point this out - I do wish McCarthy’s writing was a bit more accessible, since it’s so good once you get the hang of it, but the process of reading it can be tedious.
@OnThinIceYT Yeah, they literally just burst into Shakespearian philosophy out of nowhere, and it's so long-winded. One quote goes into how war has existed before man; when he could've just said war is inevitable and it would've been fine
@@jamesjoe1690 I'm not sure what "Shakespearian philosophy" is. Shakespeare was a playwright. The quote you are reffering to is "Before man was, war waited for him." Pretty concise, but I'm sure Macbeth could just have been written as such: "a man becomes disloyal and kills his king after a prophecy tells him that he will be king. The end."
@@jamesjoe1690 Hey, books like Twilight were made for people like you.... not books like this. It's just your narrow range of soul and mind you are talking about, not McCarthy's book lol
“Protagonist” doesn’t necessarily mean “hero.” It just means “main character.” Also, Wendigoon’s video about Blood Meridian was one of many points In Praise of Shadows used when he tried (and failed) to cancel the guy.
While I do know what “protagonist”means, I suppose I should have made it more clear that I have positive connotative associations with the word “protagonist” - I’m sure many people do. And yes, that cancelling attempt did not go over quite so well. I love Isaiah’s content.
Thank you very much for watching!
@@OnThinIceYT I suppose you should have, if only to prevent negative connotative associations with your character and content.
So actually, how the main character of a story is referred to as , ie "protagonist" vs. "antagonist" , depends on a few established literary rules.
In regards to a story with 1 single, main character whose initial morality aligns with anything to the right of "chaotic evil" and is the "antihero" of the tale, can only be called a "protagonist" IF by the conclusion of the story, the reader or audience has developed or has held "sympathy" for the character.
For example in a story with one main character, and that character is unjustifiably evil, and commits acts for their own selfish desires or evil intent, and the story concludes without any relevation or character arc, (our antihero is just a freakin psycopathic monster) whom the audience still perceives in a negative light, all the way to the end, then that character is referred to as the "antagonist" . Because the "antagonist" can ALSO be the main character of the story.
A story with an "antihero" who has no redeeming quality nor are there any uncovered justifiable motivations for their actions, yet a story is being told about them, or their actions influence a story in any way, an evil character, antihero, who is our main character is the antagonist.
Obviously the opposite term "protagonist" often used in regards to a heroic main character, can ALSO be used to describe a character who starts off, hated and evil, committing seemingly unjustifiable acts, but by the end of the story because of perhaps revealing historical context, or a redemption arc, or any reason in which the audience can not condemn this character in "black and white" terms as strictly "a baddie" can also be called the "protagonist"..
However its important(btw Gen Z, there is a "t" in "important", just sayin :P) to note that whether or not a character is the "antagonist" or "protagonist" of the story CAN be very individually subjective, and even if agreed upon by the majority to be a certain way, can CHANGE over time.
The only thing that is certain, is that the only people in a convo that have the right to label the character one or the other, is the person telling the story, and the audience who has already READ the story.
And then of course the other deciding factor is whether or not the story has two main characters, one will always be the "good guy or gal or guygal" and the other will be the baddie. At that point the audience labels them accordingly.
As someone who peersonally, has yet to read this book, i cannot comment on whether or not, the "Judge" who might be the main character, should be referred to as the "antagonist" or "protagonist" but if he is indeed the main character, but in this case the creator of this content, should be granted the benefit of the doubt for doing so, because only they know how that character made them feel.
And if all this is true, then @OnThinIce used it correctly, if he meant the "Judge" was the main character , an "antihero" but he felt sympathetic towards the character at some point, then indeed the character is the "protagonist".
I do not agree that "war" is the main character of this novel. Perhaps it is the main underlying theme or motif, but I dont consider it to be a "main character" so if "protagonist" was used in reference to "war" and not the "Judge" , then this whole convo is based on a fallacious argument to begin with, lol.
Damn. I told myself to keep this concise and short before i started. I fucked up
But I hope that helps. :)
@@svenpoletka5236you’re annoying and way more triggered than you should be. get off youtube and go to therapy.
@@MaxxTrajanthe judge is the antagonist and the kid is the protagonist your welcome
I highly recommend the audio book version read by Richard Poe. First read it, if you haven’t then when you’re ready to read it again (because you’ll need to) listen to Richard Poe read it. His voice is so perfect it’s forever tied to this book for me
I've begun the Poe narration of this book and I can confirm that it's as good as you say, if not even better. An excellent and very tasteful recommendation, not to mention a highly immersive way to experience this incredible story.
@@OnThinIceYT I can’t imagine the Judge with any other voice now
I'm sure it's been said before but the production value here really feels like it belongs to a larger channel. Great analysis and I love the avatar lol
I do my best to make these episodes high quality, so I greatly appreciate your kind words. Plus, between you and me, I have been told that I’m quite a handsome penguin.
And, of course, thank you for watching!
Man, that book still haunts me after reading it 10 years so. It kind of sticks with you. Great summary and exposition of a book that gets left off of many “must reads” but which is one of the very best in the 20th century.
Wow. Great video! I subscribed and imagine many more like me will follow.
On the last point you made about the ambiguity of McCarthy’s world view; his final novel “The Passanger” is my favorite book of his. He worked on it for over 40 years, and it’s clear that he used it as a catalyst to bring his world view to light. In typical McCarthy fashion, it is all still as layered and beautiful as ever. All of this is to say that if you are interested in more insight in to his world view it’s a great novel to read and dig through!
I have been meaning to read The Passenger; maybe this is a sign to finally start.
Thank you for the kind words, and for watching and subscribing! It really does mean a lot.
@@OnThinIceYT if you do read it, please don’t make the mistake of going in to it expecting a “no country for old men” type thriller. I’ve seen a lot of people become disappointed in the novel and struggle to get back in to it because it wasn’t what they expected. Think of it more as a Sutree style of novel. (With a little bit of a thriller twist) cheers to you friend and happy reading!
Good lord, I just watched this and assumed you had 100k subscribers at least. Insane video for someone with 80odd. Keep grinding and honestly I have no doubt you’ll have a massive audience, great content.
Thank you very much for the kind words, they mean a lot. There's certainly more content on the horizon; I'm just getting started.
Thank you for watching!
@@OnThinIceYT can’t wait to see it!
Welcome to the world of YT Phillip! Excellent presentation. Liked, subbed and all the rest. Proud to be one of the first of many.
Thank you for the warm welcome, and for doing all the like-comment-subscribe mumbo-jumbo. It really does mean a lot.
And, of course, thank you for watching!
I love your clear, concise, precise, and informative storytelling style! It's also great because it comes without unnecessary opinions that often wastes time, which a lot of the commentary youtube community seem to attach themselves to whenever they drop a video...i find that with many in this category, their videos are mostly all personality but little with substance pertaining to the subject they're talking about.
This video has a lot of subtance while also letting us see a little of your personality, which is welcoming not only bc it doesn't linger but bc you seem warm-hearted and sincere with what you research...
Great video, thanks!
Thank you for the kind words, they're much appreciated. I do love what I decide to talk about, and I can only hope that comes across in my content.
@OnThinIceYT ofc my friend. I will be watching to see what you release.
Very cool
Cheers
@@OnThinIceYT Do more Cormac
Keep making these video. The quality is good and this video organically made its way to me. Keep going .
Thank you very much for the kind words. I’m glad this episode made its way to you.
And, of course, thank you for watching! It means a ton.
This is so well done🙂i just finished the book and is is incredible...
Thank you for the kind words. I agree with you: Blood Meridian is, indeed, a very good book.
And, of course, thank you for watching!
One of my favorite books that passage of the Comanche war party has stuck with me since reading it glad I came across this channel
That particular passage is haunting to say the least. Some of the best-written and vivid imagery in all of fiction, to be sure.
I'm glad you found the channel, too! Thank you very much for watching.
* Noticed some key misunderstandings in your essay... the Comanches and Apaches are not "Mexican natives".... as they were at constant war with Mexico.... Apacheria and Comancheria were never conquered by Spain or Mexico.... they'd be American natives if anything... also when you spoke of the kid and Nacogdoches you mentioned "ex-pat Civil War vets".... and as this takes place in 1849-50.... the Civil War is a decade and some years off.
It's always good to get some feedback from the eagle-eyed - I'm always looking for opportunities to improve my content.
On your Civil War point, that was a mistake on my part. As for the Comanches and Apaches, their territories covered parts of Northern Mexico (particularly the Apache) and were there long before any Spanish settlers, hence my use of the term "native Mexican." Of course, "native American" works as well, since their territories also extended well into the American Southwest. Hopefully these details don't take away from the quality of this episode.
Thank you very much for watching!
@@OnThinIceYT ...you did a good job regardless, just wanted to point those things out.
Read Glanton at the fire. His inner thoughts are told us while most of the others never get mentioned and are told externally.
There's more here about determinism and freewill.
I don’t think I’ll ever get a full night of sleep again 😳
Remembering that the Judge exists is, as it turns out, one of the leading causes of insomnia.
Not a big fan of Cormac's writing but his wild west story was good
I appreciate your candidness. McCarthy certainly isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but the excellence of Blood Meridian in particular, I feel, demands respect at the very least.
Thank you very much for watching!
I’m talking about balls on the dog
i tought u have like atleast 200k subs with this quality of videos… keep it up!
Thank you for the kind words - I’m looking forward to making more content and helping this channel grow.
Thank you for watching!
The writing in this book is transcendent.
Agreed. There isn’t anything out there quite like Blood Meridian, matching the atrocities with contrastingly beautiful prose.
Thank you for watching!
Blood Meridian was a spiritual prequel to Old Man and the Sea, which was also constantly confused for Christian allegory
I’m scared help
You should be, alces. You very well should be.
7:13 Mexican American war, not Civil War
Thank you for catching that, I most definitely meant to say the former and not the latter.
And, of course, thank you for watching!
Im not sure your alleged reason for the war in heaven is actual Christian doctrine...
You’re right, there are actually many interpretations of what happened from the scarce Bible verses about the war in Heaven. What I say in this video is based on what I found to be compelling for my video during my research; that being said, while not all Christians subscribe to this belief, it is a Christian doctrine and is taught by some denominational groups. I suppose I should have been more clear on that point.
Thank you for watching!
Big Boy spat.
11:27
I just don't quite get the purpose of this book. The way it revels in it's dark themes feels almost pornographic. I often like reading dark books because they have something to say.
The story 'I have no mouth but I must scream' is one of my favorite stories despite it being an uncomfortable experience watching 5 humans being tortured endlessly at the end of the world but even in that scenario there is hope, and the flawed protagonist shows us that by the end of the story.
The protagonist in the story is a blank dullard who doesn't seem to have any kind of emotion about what's going on. The pain in this book is meaningless the cruelty is meaningless and I can't help but wonder what the author was really trying to say.
Excellent comment, and good points. I think you hit the nail on the head, though: all the pain and suffering is meaningless, offering a picture of a world without hope. I don’t think we, as humans, are meant to like a story with no hope or happy ending; we’re just not wired that way.
I also love “I Have No Mouth But I Must Scream” - maybe I’ll cover it in another episode soon.
Thank you for watching!
The writing speaks for itself. McCarthy's prose is sublime.
I take the kid to be more or less a stand in for the reader. He is only really active and apparent at the beginning and end of the novel. The novel itself is ambiguous, but that doesn't matter. The real world is even more ambiguous the more you bother to think about it. But there are very clear and apparent themes in it. Such as war and violence being inherent to human nature, nihilism. It's no secret that McCarthy was a very pessimistic man with pessimistic views about the world that shine through his works.
I also wouldn't call the boy a blank dullard. I think McCarthy manages to write and characterize him well in the few passages he does. You can read alot about him just by reading what he says and does.
Also, I fail to see any hope in IHNMAIMS. Unless you consider death to be hope. That story was basically meaningless torture porn in my eyes.
I like your point about the kid - he's characterized not just by his actions, but by his inaction and passivity, as well.
@@dreyri2736the hope in IHNMAIMS is that even though A.M had all the power, and had tortured the main 5 for years and decades and centuries, A.M preserving their lives so he can continue to hurt them. Ted is able to beat A.M by killing the entire crew in a swift moment, saving them from more pain and it is a selfless act by choosing to kill the others before him self. Sure in the end he becomes some slug thing but he was able to take away the one thing A.M enjoyed. He took away his A.M purpose and saved his people. It doesn’t sound hopeful on paper but I interpret it as even in the most horrific situations, where death is the greatest gift obtainable, humanity finds a way to furfil it.
first
Truthfully spoken. Well done, my friend.
I find it sorta pretentious personally
It’s good that you point this out - I do wish McCarthy’s writing was a bit more accessible, since it’s so good once you get the hang of it, but the process of reading it can be tedious.
@OnThinIceYT Yeah, they literally just burst into Shakespearian philosophy out of nowhere, and it's so long-winded. One quote goes into how war has existed before man; when he could've just said war is inevitable and it would've been fine
@@jamesjoe1690 I'm not sure what "Shakespearian philosophy" is. Shakespeare was a playwright. The quote you are reffering to is "Before man was, war waited for him."
Pretty concise, but I'm sure Macbeth could just have been written as such: "a man becomes disloyal and kills his king after a prophecy tells him that he will be king. The end."
There’s something funny to me how dudes can read a book with zero punctuation and think “this is pretentious”
@@jamesjoe1690 Hey, books like Twilight were made for people like you.... not books like this. It's just your narrow range of soul and mind you are talking about, not McCarthy's book lol
The savage hordes got drip
Ah yes - carrying out horrendous and murderous acts with impeccable style to boot.
Thank you for watching!