WOW!!!! I didn't know that the Bulls offered DeMar DeRozan a 2-year deal worth 40 million per year. Yup, DeMar & his agent really shouldn't have turned that down. BTW, that DeMar DeRozan offer seriously makes the Bulls signing Patrick Williams at 90 million dollars for 5 years look even more like a huge win for the Bulls. 👌🏾🖤👑💯
@Philly2tall the problem will be how long can tgey keep the talent. Do you really think Coby is trying to stay if they continue to miss the playoffs? They have him on a cheap contract for two more seasons, and unless he is willing to extend after next season, provided he is still projecting upwards. they could lose him for nothing. His contract is so small that they can't trade him for anything of value. It will be a perpetual cycle of trying to find the right core. There is a very good chance that Coby will not be part of the team when they finally have a consistent playoff roster.
Looking like demar fumbled the bag & im pretty sure the front office didn’t know zo was gonna be out this long Zach did play like shit the last season after he got paid , & it was a hoe move to opt into surgery doing the time they wanted to trade u
What did you expect with 2 ISO scorers in Derozan and Zach without Lonzo to keep the ball moving? It really showed the team can only operate with 1 ISO player but that's not winning basketball.
@@GaryIndianasown Zach never adjusted to Derozan as a #1. What was the purpose of signing Zach to a max for him to be a #2? So, I think that led to him forcing shots. But if you have a playmaker, who is the best player to have? Zach. That's bottom line. That's why Zo was brought in. Now that you have Giddey and Derozan possibly gone, wouldn't that be a formula for his success again? Zach is a 50/40/90 player and those hard to come by. In fact, I don't know of any stars rushing to get to Chicago. In the past 3 years you've only had Zo, Caruso, and Derozan who wanted to be in Chicago.
@@GaryIndianasown To be fair to Zach, he was signed to a max deal but the team was not built around the max player. Zo and Caruso were perfect because they both play defense and Zo is a transitional passer who helped Zach get easy baskets in the open floor. But how can you have 2 players, like Zach and Derozan, who are similar in style, but can't defend? Add a center in Vuc who can't defend. That spells a disaster. If it wasn't for Caruso and Zo, it would have looked even worse. Derozan pretty much stole Zach's role although Zach was given the max. What was the logic in doing that? If you believed in Zach to give him a max, why would you then put him in the background as a #2? It wasn't done when he was putting up 50 to push the Bulls, which is why he got the max. So the team should have been constructed around him. You now have young athletic players. PAW should have been given a bigger role but because of the structure he too was pushed in the background. I even believe the current team is better for him and Zach. Zach can now be the lead on a team with role players and you have Giddey and Zo as passers. You can never have enough ball movers on a team. If Zo comes back defensively, he can fill Caruso's role and also be the 3 point specialist. But I don't think the Bulls want any success, tanking to keep that Spurs pick is the goal instead of winning. Why tank when you may have the formula? Try it and see. It may surprise you.
It just goes to show that the NBA believes Demar is obsolete and the Bulls overpaid the market. Yeah, he’s a good regular season player just not the hall of famer we needed.
One thing you should mention which I don’t see anyone talking about is Zach Lavine is how the Bulls have failed to make him more appealing. Why did we go to Demar instead of Zach for game winning shots when Zach was our “guy”. Is this something that we have overlooked that other teams are taking into consideration. While I agree that the contract and attitude doesn’t help. We have to comeback to the question does Zach help out team
I hope that the Bulls can find at least one (1) more combo 4/5, 7-Foot Player to backup "Jalen Smith", especially if "Vooch" is going to be gone too. Otherwise, just resign "Javonte Green" to fill out that last roster spot and see what we do during this coming 2024-2025 Season.
I like knowing why these trades are not working. What was offered. Why is Demar still a Bull. Why isn't he with the Lakers. Is he asking for too much money. Why is the Zach market so bad? We know why to some degree, but I want more insight
If we can get a decent veteran center back for vooch like a Clint capela or nurkic or Mitchel Robison & a veteran for Zach I think this team can still be a 6-9 seed in the east
Do you think management should take most of the blame for being in this situation where no one wants any of our top players in a trade, meaning over the last two years they did absolutely nothing as far as their trade value, let me know thanks
I can't wait to this is all over with for we can focus on guys who on the team i like what I see right now i can't wait to see how this young team grows together
It looks like its gonna be the EXACT SAME PEOPLE minus Caruso & Derzon. You not getting rid of Lavine untill Allstar weekend at the earliest and that's IF he plays REALLY good and we have a winning record
@@ChiBullsCentral I’m not really sold on DeMar’s fit with the Lakers. They are another team that’s kinda in the middle with their roster construction lots of young talent paired with a few aging veterans. I don’t think DeMar moves the needle for them with his play style and more importantly he doesn’t fill a need for them in the west. They need more shooting (knecht is unproven right now) and they need length and defensive minded players. I don’t see many teams forcing a fit for DeMar. He should’ve taken that $80M
Demar acts like he’s a top level star and he’s not. That 80 mil was the last time he would probably be offered that much unless someone really wants him and to me he should be a Lou will, Jamal Crawford, off the bench 6th man. He would need an offense built around his skill set and that just a mid range player who cant guard a stop sign and can’t really shoot a three efficiently. He over valued himself but you’re a number 3 or 4 player at best.
If the Bulls can seriously get Torrey Craig outta here & receive 2 2nd-round picks back, I'd definitely do this deal. More assets can definitely help the Bulls in the future. I hope that deal happens. 🙏
Vooch, Demar, and Zach will be gone. Their value is now going up on all 3. JJ Redick did a podcast about Zach and how good he is. That show always loved Zach. Lakers for a decent return that will include D Russell, Reeves, J Hayes, and C Reddish. Plus picks. JJ may want to go for the upside of Zach over the steadiness of DD.
The fact that even as of last year they were looking to pay 40/year for Demar shows that AKME is clueless. This is the right direction to go in but we've got fucking Yamcha as our GM to make a DBZ reference. Like where are the pro-bulls PR guys leaking "The bulls are fine if Zach comes back, and would like to see him get a run with the new guys," to try and boost Zach's value. Just at ever facet it feels like this front office is being out-played by everyone else in the league.
Man, I really don’t want to see them all on the same roster next year. Lavine might be staying, but DeMar and Vuc would be bad locker room vibes. Also, the money situation with that would be really infuriating.
The biggest problem the Bulls as an organization have is that Reinsdorf would rather have a best friend as an exe, instead of someone that can get the job done. That's why you have to give it up to Robert Craft of the Patriots because he and Bill weren't friends but Bill won Super Bowls so he stayed out of his way. Reindorf is the exact opposite he wants a fishing buddy and damn the results of his basketball team.
That might be one of the only bleacher report trades I’ve heard in awhile that doesn’t sound stupid. I don’t think we could hope for more than that in a sign and trade
It seems Demar is a max contract player on a bad team, a mid level contract player on a contender, and there is a murky desire in between. Tough place in his career right now as he gets older.
@tbrackeenjr keep in mind tgat a player like Tobias Hartis just got 2 years and $52M. That's crazy. I don't care how much better he might shoot 3's, it's take Demar over him any day.
may need to wait until the February 2025 trade deadline before moving Vucevic & LaVine, however DeRozan is an unrestricted free agent, so he needs to be traded now
Bulls did not overpay for Demar. 17th in scoring and we had him for 20m a year. That was a steal. Now if we got him on that 2 year 80m, then that’s overpaying
@@MegaLilWade they paid him way more than anyone else was offering for his first deal which I can understand they were desperate then he turned down the two year deal which I’m glad he did,he was productive but the bulls weren’t going anywhere with or without him.
@@anthonym6119 I’m not quite understanding what you are trying to state. Yes, the bulls took a gamble and paid him 20m a year and the lakers and clippers didn’t want to pay him that money. It still wasn’t an overpay bc he outplayed his contract. It was considered a great deal bc of the production he output. Why do you think he was not trying to sign another deal for 20m a year? Bc it would be an underpay for the production he output over the last 3 years. 40m a year is an over pay for Demar and I am glad he turned it down as well bc bulls would not have went young if he took it. He screwed himself and found out that teams aren’t going to pay him 40m a year over the other free agents that were available this year. Now he has to take the MLE or a sign in trade 🤷🏾♂️
Also wish we could do away with all of klutch sports. Screw Zach and that agent because they just want to have their cake and eat it too all while he got him a nice big ass contract. We took care of of lonzo and him more than what other teams would’ve stood for. Lonzo about to get paid for playing 20games and Zach just did the same thing this year. And yet he thinks it’s the bulls fault he can’t get traded. Totally nothing to do with him specifically being like the only guy here through 3 years with consistent reports of being unhappy. Whether it’s playing with demar or liking billy Zach is the only one to constantly have those reports and they can’t all just be born out of nothing and teams definitely see that shit. And him doing what he thought was smart by opting for surgery only made the idiot harder to move. Because now teams know he’ll do sneaky shit like that on top of it being more evidence he can’t stay healthy. He like demar absolutely played himself. Should’ve just went to Detroit and could’ve had an easier time getting traded from over there. Could’ve called out with Cade for like 20 games and then did the surgery and came into the offseason at least with more value and the team testing to having actual leverage before you tank it
Two years from now, Ayo and Coby will be gone. There is no way they are staying if this team isn't good then. I hate how Zach gets all the blame when the organization failed him, whether it was Gar/Pax or AKME.
He doesn’t get all the blame though. We been complaining about the organization more than anyone but be real my guy. They don’t step on the court and dribble and as much as they have failed to be more creative in getting help Zach also equally hasn’t really gotten much better in the areas he needed to. It’s equal blame all around nobody is getting more hate than anyone
@flockaveli15 you need to be real. The first time tgey actually surrounded him with a competent team, they went to the playoffs. They failed to replace Lonzo the next season, and players around him struggled. Ayo's second season was definitely a disappointment. Coby wasn't given an opportunity that season most likely to limit his market in FA, and after signing, his new contract was given the keys. Once Zach is gone, Coby will be in the same position. You don't win in this league by only having 1-2 players. Coby has 1 year left after next season, and his next contract is going to be higher than Zach's if they plan on keeping him. Also a player being on a team for 6 seasons, and only reaching the playoffs once is not how you keep pkayers. Coby isn't Demar, and once he reaches FA again, he will definitely have a market. Do you really think he isn't looking at how the Bulls are run and how much they have struggled to consistently figure it out?
zach lavine has a problem with billy donovan. zach lavine has a problem with management. zach lavine has problems in the locker room. he just has a lot of problems that all can easily resolved if he just works on his defense & ball handling. the fact he refuses to do that year in & year out is why these other teams said eff it. lavine doesn't take winning serious. he just wants the money & there's nothing wrong with that. i would just prefer he isn't on my favorite team. he's worse than eddie robinson. 🤬
Maybe. Or it could mean that the Bulls just paid Pat WAAAY more than any other team was prepared to offer. I bet they paid Pat $30 million more than any other team would have offered. Because that’s how the Bulls roll. Lock up your injury prone players for years to come
Highly doubt it. It’s just he ain’t going to get his cake and eat it too. He played his cards wrong because there’s so few guys getting big money at essentially 35 years old. He can still play but how long and how effective will it be and the more money you spend the more you expect
WOW!!!! I didn't know that the Bulls offered DeMar DeRozan a 2-year deal worth 40 million per year. Yup, DeMar & his agent really shouldn't have turned that down. BTW, that DeMar DeRozan offer seriously makes the Bulls signing Patrick Williams at 90 million dollars for 5 years look even more like a huge win for the Bulls. 👌🏾🖤👑💯
I’m ready to turn the page. Move lavine, demar and vucc. Lets watch some ball movement and a fast pace.
And a massive amount of L’s
@@Philly2tall we might not be as bad as prople think. We have talent, prob 30 wins.
@@bulls-nation5783 which is probably 5 to 10 wins too many lol. They could also have the same win total in some scenarios
@@Philly2tall true lol
@Philly2tall the problem will be how long can tgey keep the talent. Do you really think Coby is trying to stay if they continue to miss the playoffs? They have him on a cheap contract for two more seasons, and unless he is willing to extend after next season, provided
he is still projecting upwards. they could lose him for nothing. His contract is so small that they can't trade him for anything of value. It will be a perpetual cycle of trying to find the right core. There is a very good chance that Coby will not be part of the team when they finally have a consistent playoff roster.
Looking like demar fumbled the bag & im pretty sure the front office didn’t know zo was gonna be out this long
Zach did play like shit the last season after he got paid , & it was a hoe move to opt into surgery doing the time they wanted to trade u
What did you expect with 2 ISO scorers in Derozan and Zach without Lonzo to keep the ball moving? It really showed the team can only operate with 1 ISO player but that's not winning basketball.
For about half a season I thought we had a good team,afterwards it was a playin every year
@@BallGuy-pm8pz I didn’t expect anything , but playermaker or not , Zach was missing a lot of open shots wasn’t getting back defensively is no excuse
@@GaryIndianasown Zach never adjusted to Derozan as a #1. What was the purpose of signing Zach to a max for him to be a #2? So, I think that led to him forcing shots. But if you have a playmaker, who is the best player to have? Zach. That's bottom line. That's why Zo was brought in. Now that you have Giddey and Derozan possibly gone, wouldn't that be a formula for his success again? Zach is a 50/40/90 player and those hard to come by. In fact, I don't know of any stars rushing to get to Chicago. In the past 3 years you've only had Zo, Caruso, and Derozan who wanted to be in Chicago.
@@GaryIndianasown
To be fair to Zach, he was signed to a max deal but the team was not built around the max player. Zo and Caruso were perfect because they both play defense and Zo is a transitional passer who helped Zach get easy baskets in the open floor. But how can you have 2 players, like Zach and Derozan, who are similar in style, but can't defend? Add a center in Vuc who can't defend. That spells a disaster.
If it wasn't for Caruso and Zo, it would have looked even worse. Derozan pretty much stole Zach's role although Zach was given the max. What was the logic in doing that? If you believed in Zach to give him a max, why would you then put him in the background as a #2? It wasn't done when he was putting up 50 to push the Bulls, which is why he got the max. So the team should have been constructed around him.
You now have young athletic players. PAW should have been given a bigger role but because of the structure he too was pushed in the background. I even believe the current team is better for him and Zach. Zach can now be the lead on a team with role players and you have Giddey and Zo as passers. You can never have enough ball movers on a team.
If Zo comes back defensively, he can fill Caruso's role and also be the 3 point specialist. But I don't think the Bulls want any success, tanking to keep that Spurs pick is the goal instead of winning. Why tank when you may have the formula? Try it and see. It may surprise you.
It just goes to show that the NBA believes Demar is obsolete and the Bulls overpaid the market. Yeah, he’s a good regular season player just not the hall of famer we needed.
80 million dollars 😂his lost his mind he be to lucky to get that for 5 year deal man it be great to get a pick for him but not likely
Trade and Vooch to the sky
Zach Lavine and Justin Fields are getting the SAME TREATMENT ITS CRAZYYYYYYY
One thing you should mention which I don’t see anyone talking about is Zach Lavine is how the Bulls have failed to make him more appealing. Why did we go to Demar instead of Zach for game winning shots when Zach was our “guy”. Is this something that we have overlooked that other teams are taking into consideration. While I agree that the contract and attitude doesn’t help. We have to comeback to the question does Zach help out team
I hope that the Bulls can find at least one (1) more combo 4/5, 7-Foot Player to backup "Jalen Smith", especially if "Vooch" is going to be gone too. Otherwise, just resign "Javonte Green" to fill out that last roster spot and see what we do during this coming 2024-2025 Season.
GSW waiving Paul was more of a luxury tax avoidance move vs. an indictment of Zach
I like knowing why these trades are not working. What was offered. Why is Demar still a Bull. Why isn't he with the Lakers. Is he asking for too much money. Why is the Zach market so bad? We know why to some degree, but I want more insight
If we can get a decent veteran center back for vooch like a Clint capela or nurkic or Mitchel Robison & a veteran for Zach I think this team can still be a 6-9 seed in the east
Warriors should go after Zach Lavine now that they lost Klay and also get Lauri Markkanen
I know this trade shit is annoying af, but to see them be called former core does make me happy lol
🤣🤣🤣. Glad I could bring you some joy today fam
The bulls need to learn and sell high on Cobi White now before you have to pay 200 million for 30 wins.
Do you think management should take most of the blame for being in this situation where no one wants any of our top players in a trade, meaning over the last two years they did absolutely nothing as far as their trade value, let me know thanks
Are the bulls even better than the Pistons or the Hornets at this point? I get the tear down though but don’t be fooled this is not a retool.
Lakers are linked to every player every year. It get clicks.
Lavine would’ve fit with GS. I’m surprised they didn’t make that move losing Klay.
I can't wait to this is all over with for we can focus on guys who on the team i like what I see right now i can't wait to see how this young team grows together
Fr
It looks like its gonna be the EXACT SAME PEOPLE minus Caruso & Derzon.
You not getting rid of Lavine untill Allstar weekend at the earliest and that's IF he plays REALLY good and we have a winning record
LeBron didn’t take that pay cut lol Lakers are out
They're not out. They would just have to send at least $22 million out in the trade to use their MLE. That's why the third team would be required.
@@ChiBullsCentral I’m not really sold on DeMar’s fit with the Lakers. They are another team that’s kinda in the middle with their roster construction lots of young talent paired with a few aging veterans. I don’t think DeMar moves the needle for them with his play style and more importantly he doesn’t fill a need for them in the west. They need more shooting (knecht is unproven right now) and they need length and defensive minded players. I don’t see many teams forcing a fit for DeMar. He should’ve taken that $80M
Demar acts like he’s a top level star and he’s not. That 80 mil was the last time he would probably be offered that much unless someone really wants him and to me he should be a Lou will, Jamal Crawford, off the bench 6th man. He would need an offense built around his skill set and that just a mid range player who cant guard a stop sign and can’t really shoot a three efficiently. He over valued himself but you’re a number 3 or 4 player at best.
If the Bulls can seriously get Torrey Craig outta here & receive 2 2nd-round picks back, I'd definitely do this deal. More assets can definitely help the Bulls in the future. I hope that deal happens. 🙏
Vooch, Demar, and Zach will be gone. Their value is now going up on all 3. JJ Redick did a podcast about Zach and how good he is. That show always loved Zach. Lakers for a decent return that will include D Russell, Reeves, J Hayes, and C Reddish. Plus picks. JJ may want to go for the upside of Zach over the steadiness of DD.
Also, I'm okay with Vuc staying. I'd like to see him playmake with our young guards
The fact that even as of last year they were looking to pay 40/year for Demar shows that AKME is clueless. This is the right direction to go in but we've got fucking Yamcha as our GM to make a DBZ reference. Like where are the pro-bulls PR guys leaking "The bulls are fine if Zach comes back, and would like to see him get a run with the new guys," to try and boost Zach's value. Just at ever facet it feels like this front office is being out-played by everyone else in the league.
I think a team will pick up Lavine.He’s a good scoring guard. He was just never happy in Chicago. I think the Bulls need a new coach also💯💯
Man, I really don’t want to see them all on the same roster next year. Lavine might be staying, but DeMar and Vuc would be bad locker room vibes. Also, the money situation with that would be really infuriating.
The biggest problem the Bulls as an organization have is that Reinsdorf would rather have a best friend as an exe, instead of someone that can get the job done.
That's why you have to give it up to Robert Craft of the Patriots because he and Bill weren't friends but Bill won Super Bowls so he stayed out of his way.
Reindorf is the exact opposite he wants a fishing buddy and damn the results of his basketball team.
Hell naw on that deal tough sht on DeMar he should have took the 80 million
That might be one of the only bleacher report trades I’ve heard in awhile that doesn’t sound stupid. I don’t think we could hope for more than that in a sign and trade
It seems Demar is a max contract player on a bad team, a mid level contract player on a contender, and there is a murky desire in between. Tough place in his career right now as he gets older.
@tbrackeenjr keep in mind tgat a player like Tobias Hartis just got 2 years and $52M. That's crazy. I don't care how much better he might shoot 3's, it's take Demar over him any day.
If DeRozan is traded to the Heat, then the Bulls should ask for either Orlando Robinson or Tomas Bryant as compensation.
Wouldn't be terrible n is better than getting nothing
may need to wait until the February 2025 trade deadline before moving Vucevic & LaVine, however DeRozan is an unrestricted free agent, so he needs to be traded now
Could the Demar trade to the Lakers be challenging since Lebron signed a 2 year $100 million max deal?
It can be but they would need to be sending out $20+ million to give him the MLE. A third team would need to be involved basically
Plenty of teams will be interested in Hachimura
Haize I thought the Bulls resigned Torrey Craig already?
He opted into his contract. That's why he can be traded
This is exactly why handshake deals are ass. Especially in business. Always, always get the terms written & signed by all parties involved.
There’s no way he’s going to make that 80 million back,the bulls overpaid so he thought he could get more.
Bulls did not overpay for Demar. 17th in scoring and we had him for 20m a year. That was a steal. Now if we got him on that 2 year 80m, then that’s overpaying
@@MegaLilWade they paid him way more than anyone else was offering for his first deal which I can understand they were desperate then he turned down the two year deal which I’m glad he did,he was productive but the bulls weren’t going anywhere with or without him.
@@anthonym6119 I’m not quite understanding what you are trying to state. Yes, the bulls took a gamble and paid him 20m a year and the lakers and clippers didn’t want to pay him that money. It still wasn’t an overpay bc he outplayed his contract. It was considered a great deal bc of the production he output. Why do you think he was not trying to sign another deal for 20m a year? Bc it would be an underpay for the production he output over the last 3 years. 40m a year is an over pay for Demar and I am glad he turned it down as well bc bulls would not have went young if he took it. He screwed himself and found out that teams aren’t going to pay him 40m a year over the other free agents that were available this year. Now he has to take the MLE or a sign in trade 🤷🏾♂️
Also wish we could do away with all of klutch sports. Screw Zach and that agent because they just want to have their cake and eat it too all while he got him a nice big ass contract.
We took care of of lonzo and him more than what other teams would’ve stood for. Lonzo about to get paid for playing 20games and Zach just did the same thing this year. And yet he thinks it’s the bulls fault he can’t get traded. Totally nothing to do with him specifically being like the only guy here through 3 years with consistent reports of being unhappy. Whether it’s playing with demar or liking billy Zach is the only one to constantly have those reports and they can’t all just be born out of nothing and teams definitely see that shit. And him doing what he thought was smart by opting for surgery only made the idiot harder to move. Because now teams know he’ll do sneaky shit like that on top of it being more evidence he can’t stay healthy. He like demar absolutely played himself. Should’ve just went to Detroit and could’ve had an easier time getting traded from over there. Could’ve called out with Cade for like 20 games and then did the surgery and came into the offseason at least with more value and the team testing to having actual leverage before you tank it
Two years from now, Ayo and Coby will be gone. There is no way they are staying if this team isn't good then. I hate how Zach gets all the blame when the organization failed him, whether it was Gar/Pax or AKME.
He didn’t help himself by playing no defense
He doesn’t get all the blame though. We been complaining about the organization more than anyone but be real my guy. They don’t step on the court and dribble and as much as they have failed to be more creative in getting help Zach also equally hasn’t really gotten much better in the areas he needed to. It’s equal blame all around nobody is getting more hate than anyone
@flockaveli15 you need to be real. The first time tgey actually surrounded him with a competent team, they went to the playoffs. They failed to replace Lonzo the next season, and players around him struggled. Ayo's second season was definitely a disappointment. Coby wasn't given an opportunity that season most likely to limit his market in FA, and after signing, his new contract was given the keys. Once Zach is gone, Coby will be in the same position. You don't win in this league by only having 1-2 players. Coby has 1 year left after next season, and his next contract is going to be higher than Zach's if they plan on keeping him. Also a player being on a team for 6 seasons, and only reaching the playoffs once is not how you keep pkayers. Coby isn't Demar, and once he reaches FA again, he will definitely have a market. Do you really think he isn't looking at how the Bulls are run and how much they have struggled to consistently figure it out?
zach lavine has a problem with billy donovan. zach lavine has a problem with management. zach lavine has problems in the locker room. he just has a lot of problems that all can easily resolved if he just works on his defense & ball handling. the fact he refuses to do that year in & year out is why these other teams said eff it. lavine doesn't take winning serious. he just wants the money & there's nothing wrong with that. i would just prefer he isn't on my favorite team. he's worse than eddie robinson. 🤬
Maybe. Or it could mean that the Bulls just paid Pat WAAAY more than any other team was prepared to offer. I bet they paid Pat $30 million more than any other team would have offered. Because that’s how the Bulls roll. Lock up your injury prone players for years to come
Yeah this has nothing to do with Pat lol
I hope this doesn’t keep Deebo out of the league. He deserves to win. I like Zach but he has typical fragile male ego
Highly doubt it. It’s just he ain’t going to get his cake and eat it too. He played his cards wrong because there’s so few guys getting big money at essentially 35 years old. He can still play but how long and how effective will it be and the more money you spend the more you expect