Indie comics/manga rant/disscusion
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
- Hey y’all, I just wanted to give my thoughts and opinions on the overall Indie manga and comics space
If anyone is interested in the stories spoken about in this video links will be in the description below also links to my Patreon for any and all who are interested in unreleased black blaze and gravity, six content
PATREON: www.patreon.co...

Gravity 6ix: globalcomix.co...
BLACKBLAZE: globalcomix.co...
Infinite evolution: globalcomix.co...
Gaia knights: www.webtoons.c...
Vermillion: globalcomix.co...
"Comics vs. Manga" debate is stupid cuz they're literally the same thing. "Manga" is just the translation to "comic" in Japanese. Sure, they both have some traits that differentiate them from one another, but that's just the artists' choice. When are we going to start thinking of artworks by the artist and not where they come from? "American Manga/Anime" doesn't exist because the terms signify that those were made in Japan. We never say something like "Japanese Comic/Animation" to refer to something with American influence made in Japan, do we? What I'm trying to say is that we've bastardized the terms. I, like you, get influenced by various artists from all around the world. Getting influenced from foreign artists shouldn't mean that people automatically get to claim it as a thing made from that country. No, I want my art to shine to represent what other artists in my country are also capable of doing (I'm Honduran). Anyways, thanks for pointing it out and good luck on your future works.
Thanks I’m glad we share positive and constructive idealogies on this kind of topic
They are both comics, but they aren't the same thing. That's like saying Jazz and Metal are the same thing because they are both music. It isn't a stupid debate in the slightest.
"We never say something like "Japanese Comic/Animation" to refer to something with American influence made in Japan, do we?" Because such don't exist. Show me a Japanese show that is heavily inspired by American animation. There are some that have slight inspiration, like the Tezuka anime, which were inspired by Disney, but they are disitinct enough as anime. You won't find a Japanese series that is equivalent to something like Avatar. Avatar is so anime inspired that it warrants the American Anime name. When such a Japanese manga or anime comes out, it will be called a Japanese comic/animation.
@@pkj2148 gold star victim 🌟⭐️
@@pkj2148 Yeah great point. I guess I just wanted to say that the term's been kinda thrown around too much nowadays. I should've said I'm not an expert, but yeah, I'm not an expert lol. I kinda just wanted to throw that out. Thanks for pointing it out.
@@pkj2148 wtf youre saying Tezuka is almost the father of manga and his work is heavily inspired on disney. A lot of great animators and mangaka from today are heavily inspired on tezuka´s work and by consequence, disney. Yoh Yoshinari from studio trigger, for example. When you watch an anime like Kill-la-kill, little witch academia, tengen toppa gurren laggan, you can feel the disney-like exagerated moves and expression. its there.
Also you cant ignore one of the most popular recent manga Boku no Hero academia that is also heavily inspired by American comics and doesnt even try to hide it. Chill dude
I'm getting kind of sick of hearing that America has a superhero problem. No one goes to England and tells them they have a Cynical Satirical Dystopia problem. No one goes to France and tells them they have a Space Opera Problem. No one goes to Mexico and tells them they have a Luchador problem. No one goes to Japan and tells them they have Super Sentai/Mech/Collect'em All /Academia/Demon Slayer problem.
People who say America has a Superhero problem seem to not only hate one of the most enduring aspects of their countries cultural identity, but also hate the Optimism and Idealism the superhero represents.
Idk, just a thought. 🤷♂️
Excellent video! 🔥🔥🔥💯
Thanks bro. I’m glad you like it.
Agreed. I've always personally been a little lukewarm when it comes to most superhero media, but I've never considered their place in American culture to be a bad thing.
@@Uhlersoth77 Baseball, Apple Pie, and Superheroes! 🥰👍👍
The only super hero problem we have is that we get bad story telling by degenerate writers that make perverse fan fiction of the greats
@johngonzalez2495 real like that starfire story a few years back or that new warriors run that flopped around the same time
solid points here, the superhero theme was always very popular as it gives peoples ideal to reach, i feel like artist nowadays are afraid to give an end to their work because they think the audience is gonna be mad about it
Manga is simply the Japanese term for comics. Whether you choose to refer to your work as a manga, a comic, or any other term for comics is entirely up to you. Some individuals use the term "manga" to make their series stand out or panelling and aesthetic was inspired by Japanese comics.
Case in point I just was sharing my thoughts on the matter
Keep this up bro I love indie space talks in general whether rant review whatever I'm here for it.
First 50 seconds in and I already know what you're about to get at. Weebs are the biggest problem here. There's just no polite way to put it. They for some reason put Japanese comics on such a high pedestal that they reference everything else to it.
Koffee is notorious for this, his brain is so rotted by the weeb mentality he doesn't even want to call his own work a comic despite the fact that's what it is and he made up that ManaA term so it can resemble manga as closely as possible.
I hate having to use the " You will never be Japanese" meme against these people but I get the frustration. It's so annoying having to constantly tell them that everything is just comics. Manga literally roughly translates to Whimsical pictures which are what Comics are. Its just that they are so hell-bent on thinking that they're a little niche is special that they don't want to acknowledge that.
I remember an artist complaining that Ben 10 used an "anime style". Ben fucking 10, of all cartoons.
I remember having a back and forth with someone trying to remind them that anime is short for animation and they literally cursed me out for pointing that out. They are a lost cause
lol you probably right but I’ve personally saved and “converted” people to a more open and free mindset when it comes to comics and manga hopefully this video can do the same for others
My intention in this video is not to try to cause a greater divide but to unite both sides if possible
@@SINVERSE137 Aw I think that's very noble! I was being a bit cynical because of my past experiences, apologies if I came off as dense because I know that there are some people who are open to this realization. You're fighting the good fight!
Np bro it’s all about communication truth and understanding with me gang💯💯
Excellent video. I draw like a weeb, I wanna do comics in B/W cause it's faster for me to make and cheaper for me to print, in my case, I even take some inspo from shoujo tropes, but I have no shame in where I'm from (not-Japan), and the work I make is comics. Webcomics, from the U.S.A.
I think people that say "all western comics are Superhero stuff with 1000 parallel universes" need to read more indie comics and graphic novels tbh. And as you've explained, though less common, there are hero comics with straightforward beginnings, middles, and ends.
Tangentially, and this might be haterism on my part, I still don't get people who want to be published outside of Japan that wanna use right to left reading order… why…
I just finished watching the entire video. I'm more involved with self-published printed comics than webcomics. That side of indie comics have a lot more superhero titles, but I sometimes feel that side is getting a bit oversatuated with a lot of people trying to copy certain aspects of Marvel Cinematic Universe movies (pacing of connected universes and copying the art direction of certain franchises are prime examples).
I also find the "Comics vs. Manga" arguments annoying as well. I enjoy both mediums although I lean more into reading non-superhero floppies and trades. I don't mind if people want to categorize their works as one or the other. For example, there was a shortlived series called "Mail Order Ninja" that was advertised as a manga with an artstyle heavily inspired by it, but it's storytelling was very American. But saying one thing is better than one or the other from just reading a lot of one thing and seeing 1 or 2 panels from another just sounds immature and just come off as baseless claims.
Also dude I don't know if anyone ever told you but your character designs are fantastic
Thanks bro much appreciated
As a person who reads alot of manga and comic strips I agree that ppl should read more of stuff that we made over here, hell I’d argue that we should read french comics to, I understand the magic that manga has with these illustrations but i think ppl over here r a lil sleep when it comes to reading comics over here, I dont read superhero comics but I do read other genres of American comics cuz I know thats alot of variety than most manga readers think
Manga readers who think American comics are only superhero comics are so annoying and worse than mfs who think manga is only battle shouen
@@richadoruisuthegod3674 nah facts, I think we gotta how interesting comics are, cuz peanuts and popeye is fucking funny but i dont think ive seen how ppl get into them cuz they’re really fun
@@Harkymlarkyfranco belge comics are a classic
The only time i might call it something a manga would be if it uses the right to left reading style
I see what your saying, me personally I want to get in the JP market because it's a faster culture down there. I was always inspired by anime/manga & JP culture in general more than comic's, I dreamt of seeing my creation get a anime adaption like I seen with OP, bleach, db etc. With US comics it might take a millennia to get a animation or not at all. JP comics? maybe like 3-4 years if its hyped up enough not to mention the PV's & Ads being created for it during those years. Really just depends on what your trying to do.
Yo! I just happened to see your vid on my feed and it really opened up what I want to pull from. Like you, I was inspired by Toriyama (may he continue to rest easy) and ended up having a few influences in my art from Ryuta Ueda’s work with Jet Set Radio, Aaron Mcgruder’s angular style from his Boondocks strips alongside the animated series’ look, and Atsushi Ohkubo’s approach from Soul Eater. I want to make an indie series one day and use what influenced me whether it was story or art based. I understand the sentiment about people marking one thing as this n that just cause it came from a different country which while I can understand, can also make it feel disingenuous. Inspiration is pretty much everywhere from what we experience and do. If Floyd Norman hadn’t worked on 101 Dalmatians and helped give it the status it got now, then folks like Toriyama wouldn’t have been inspired to start drawing, create, and help build an entire generation filled with people who’ve been touched by his work. Thanks for this video
I’m glad you like the video
First off great video you should more like them. To the points you made in the video, I feel where you’re coming from but I believe most people today are just inspired more by manga than comics on average. DC and Marvel while being the pillars that held it up also stunted the growth of comics in way that allowed manga to take its place. I love spider man and damn near all of DC but how much spider man can you make before it gets “stale” for lack of better words. While manga keeps innovating and releasing whole new stories.
Comics have the potential to be just as good as manga its that right now alot of comics aren't doing so hot
Here in Brazil we have the opposite approach, everyone wants to make their comic about Brazil.. and honestly? this place SUCKS. There nothing really too interesting here other than s3xu4l deprivacy and criminality. Just stop.
Damn bro that’s tuff well hopefully you or someone else will break that mold soon
Before I watch the video based on the thumbnail the argument doesn’t make any sense once you realized that a lot of japensse manga artist uses other countries folktell, history, and stuff like that to tell their stores.
Well you might be surprised when you actually watch video good buddy
@@SINVERSE137
Also I didn’t mean to come off as a hate comment.
As another part that I deleted was how much I dislike toxic weebs but I took it out as it didn’t add anything.
I do enjoy your stuff and I didn’t mean to come off as a hate comment
I'm gonna say this: respectfully you and Koffee (the one who shall not be named) are literally THE SAME when it comes to your ideals. It's frightening how similar you two are. And it's not just you two, I literally hear the same ideals just in a different fascit from other UA-cam artist. The only difference is how you're going about it. I can at least say I respect you, however. Personality goes a long way when differentiating ideals.
Moving past that this is why your similarities upset me, as an artist myself who creates both music and visual mediums you both try to express your subtle (and not so subtle) outrage to the disrespect and ignorance of information you have witnessed/experienced. That is a problem because, and it pains me to say this, it couldn't be further from the truth when it comes to art. Art is an expression. Case and point. Example:
If someone drew Goku or a Goku lookalike all of their life, never taking inspiration from anything else but DBZ, that's still art. Why? Because art is not something we define, it's an expression of someone's motivation and will to do it regardless of if someone on the outside judges it as something else or not. It's like a metal band stating to the public "we're NOT metal" but society forcing it into that genre anyway against the origins' vision. I told this to Koffee, and I'll say it to you as well: RELATIVITY DOES NOT MAKE YOUR STORIES GOOD. You do not "need" to be relatable. Like putting a gay character in a story to smite how homosexuality is handled in others is still waving around your diversity flag. It's no different than anyone who puts a gay character in their story to check off diversity on a story element board. It doesn't make the action of adding one in bad, but it doesn't make it good either. If It's what YOU want to do- just do it. Saying WHY you did it only makes it look suss. (Side tangent - I don't know why you and others treat gay people like alien entities to be used as modules in a story, but they're just regular people like you and me. Sexuality is a trait, and in battle comics, sex usually isn't brought up because...I'm pretty sure there are mostly battles going on, and people's lives are on the line, so...) Imagination is KEY to any art form. Imagination is what brings us so many "greats" we've fallen in love with. Spiderman, Goku, Wolverine, Yusuke, Mad Max, FIST of the North Star and THOUSANDS more. Just cause you havent seen them or something isnt popular enough doesnt mean it doesnt exist. The reason these things are so unique is because of imagination, and sometimes it does come off the environment and experiences one keeps. But other times - sometimes a wet dream, being high as a kite (some have said this), or literally spurr of the moment Imagination.
Get it in your mind: ART IS TOO FREE FORM TO BE BEHOLDEN TO ANY SET OF RULES. THE ONLY RULE WITH ART IS THAT THERE ARE NO RULES. Once you youtube artists understand this one fact, you'll all be better for it. Your mistakes will become blessings. And you'll broaden your horizons. I think you understand this a little more than Koffee does, but you and him are still thinking a bit narrow-minded (of course, Koffee, a huge chunk more).
Something else that you and Koffee seem not to understand (more so a take I see a lot of artists on UA-cam get wrong and kind of shapes their judgement). The word "manga" just means comic book. Think of it like this. In America, we call comic books - "comics". But in japan, the phrase "comic book"/ "comic(s)" is translated as the word MANGA. The reason I mention this is because people seem to think separating "Man" and "Ga" will help you understand the words true meaning in their ignorance of the word and its cultural origin. But if you know anything about the Japanese language, you'd soon understand that just like any language, they fuse letters and characters together to form one cohesive word. It's no different here. Example: A Marvel comic ported over to Japan would still be called a manga (natively). There are colored manga in Japan, believe it or not. There are white and black comics in America- believe it or not. Japanese write all types of stories. As do we Americans and the rest of the world. We are different but truly the same. There are innumerable possibilities and stories that are waiting to be read received. Superheroes is just one of them. If you say you're drawing a Manga- you're essentially saying your drawing a comic. If you understand this than you MUST know that each language has its own word or phrase for comic books. So making up terms like ManaA (the dumbest shit I've ever seen) and Manfran (still dumb) are just confusing the term for the sake of creating a national flag for the purpose of "I DID IT FIRST LOOK AT ME". At the end of the day if it looks like a comic and reads like a comic then newsflash: It's a COMIC. Comics are left to right in America because we're taught to read that way. Same in Japan and any other country. They read in their own way. If you think the art style is what sets us apart think again: the Japanese and other countries be it China, Korea or even India have had a hand in cartoon and animated character depictions long before we knew. I'm talking about stuff all the way back from steamboat Mickey. However, you'd have a point somewhat if we where just talking about art somewhat as now thats all anyone can see. It's just not all the way true. As some of America's greater classics like Batman the animated series had asian and multicultural artist behind its creation.
Look, unlike you:
I hated Marvel and DC growing up. I touted them as (in my words) "gay superheroes wearing tights" -quote 9 year old 2000's me. But eventually, a game called Marvel Vs Capcom 3 came out, and my opinion completely changed. Not only did I have a newfound respect for Marvel's Superheroes but it was the union and effort between America AND Japanese that made me delve into each respective medium. Why is this important? Because it made me understand ideas aren't locked behind sets of genres and rules. They're carefully crafted from a single Imagination that went haywire. Not all the time is this the case, but certainly one would NEVER think the likes of Deadpool and Dante (DMC) would ever clash.
You must take inspiration from everything. Or nothing, in my opinion. Superheroes and Manga MC's be damned. I would focus on STORY and uniqueness before adding any other elements in story-focused products.
Lastly. Im gonna be honest, I don't like your artstyle...HOWEVER unlike Koffee and Onsurogo, who think they've created an unclimbable mountain with their very much child-like indie art my only problem with most of your characters and style is that they all share the same face and design. It gets annoying real quick when the only thing that makes a character unique is their face, and when the faces all look the same, then that's just criminal. I will say that's mostly my only issue (I could say more stuff about perspective and whatnot, but I'd be nitpicking). I do like your stories. It's not...very original, and the dialog is somewhat bland, but for an indie comic, I can look past it and the homogeneous art to understand the FULL picture. Keep in mind: When reviewing things, you have to READ IT ALL despite your personal nitpicks to understand something's full picture. That goes with games/comics/movies/music, etc. If you couldn't make it to the end, that's where you can absolutely just say, "I wasn't vibing with it, and here's why." Its an artist and writers job to keep you there to the end of their show never forget that. A bad show is bad. An unfininished show isnt a show. I couldn't read Bloody Hell all the way through for MANY REASONS. But I was able to read your stuff all the way through.
Anyways, keep learning and growing. I can see you definitely have potential. Time makes the man as they say. If you need help, I'm willing to provide advice for free. Essay over.
Ayo crazy comment you get a gold star ⭐️ for participating
Buddy this comment was a nothing burger, it’s a complete straw-man, you say theses UA-cam artist don’t understand that there’s no objective set rules and standards of making art, yes I agree and so does Jay I talk to him consistently in vc he holds that position also, but there is clearly a distinction between what succeeds and what doesn’t, theres general rules in crafting fiction that lead to better outcomes, these are instructional videos to help people get better reception, if people wanna make DBZ ripoffs like you mention they can but if they ask what will bring them success it’s totally fair to tell them that won’t take them far, so please oh wise one hop off your high horse, art is the most subjective thing we can point to but there is a metric to artistic success arguing against UA-camrs trying to help people reach it is stupid.
@@plague5547wwwwwww oh my god wwwww💯💯💯💯☝️☝️☝️☝️🔥🔥🔥🔥😤😤
@@plague5547 There is no "distinction" on what succeeds or doesnt. I can only go off of what I WATCHED. And after what I watched my opinion still stands. there are no rules and never will be for art. Inspiration can come from anything. Even from someone who draws DBZ all their life. There's no fast path to success but acting like there is would be my issue. I have no problem personally with this youtuber but almost EVERY youtube artists talks like this. This is my opinion and I dont have to insult you to get it across. Think what you want my opinion isnt law. I disagree with yours however. Just because you dislike it and take it whatever way you want doesnt invalidate it. And vice versa against me. All Im saying is we as artist can just be better than spouting the same homegenous crap every youtube artist says. But an artist who cant take critique...well that just makes you no better than the ones you insult. Does it not? Whatever you may believe I dont care. Im always open to help those in need and be better. I do not agree but I respect your input.
@@DraztikMeasurez So you contraindicated yourself, and you’re being incredibly arbitrary, I already stated that I agree that art is entirely subjective but there are metrics that lead to greater success, things like having accurate anatomy and consistency in character writing, you don’t need theses things to have “good” art that’s entirely up to the consumer, but what is demonstrably true is that having somewhat accurate anatomy and consistent character writing lends to more success, that being finically and socially, the contradiction in your comment is you that you seem to be opposed to any metric of art being taught despite the intention of the instructor/consumer, arts subjective no matter what to you, but then you claim not taking criticism makes you no better than the ones you insult, if there is absolutely no metric to look at in-terms of art, subjective from all perspectives then what standard are you even looking to to even give criticism, that’s a direct contradiction, your opposition to UA-cam artist giving input is simply ungrounded and inconsistent it’s not a matter of us having different opinions that’s cope you’re just wrong.
Personally, I don't like superhero comics. I find them insanely boring. I also would never work for Marvel/DC due their work-for-hire contracts. I will read titles from Image, Mad Cave, BOOM!, etc, but almost never superhero stuff. It's not bad, just not my flavor.
Historically, women are treated like fucking garbage and western comics is still fighting for basic equality in terms of bigotry still being a major factor. Look at the fools of comicsgate, the bechdel test, refrigerator women, there is STILL a lot of hatred in the industry that doesn't exist near as much in manga. Women creators are more welcome and celebrated for far longer than they have been in western comics.
So on THOSE things alone, I don't have the confidence I would even be taken seriously. At an industry party, I had someone tell me "it must be so much easier to get somewhere in comics sinxe you can offer what a man can't".
I asked him to clarify, and he stammered to give me an answer. I've had men ask me to go out on a date in return for putting in a good word. So until that shit changes, I'm not interested.
I'd rather go into manga where, as a NB/trans person, I will feel safer, welcome, and taken seriously. Additionally, I make manga cause that's what I enjoy. I love making manga in the way I do as a way to honor my inspirations, that's it! I LIKE drawing that way.
Lastly, all manga are comics, but not all comics are manga. Manga utilizes different story structure (kishoutenketsu), panel types, panel flow stucture (komawari). There is a very clear difference between the production process and manner of approach of manga vs comics. They are different mediums, and people who think they are the same are wrong.
Again, all manga are comics, but not all comics are manga. Comics are an umbrella term. Even in Japan, they have a SPECIFIC term for American-style comics, amekomi. So yeah, while manga can mean comics, just like us, and europe for that matter, they have different terms for different types. Even French comic/manga space differentiates between them and has certain things that make them unique. It's not hard to tell a UK comic from an American one, the differences are subtle, but there if you know what to look for.
However, despite all of that, you can do whatever you like. You can make manga, BD, mangua, comics, whatever. You don't need to be a specific nationality to make a specific type of comic.
I make manga. I'm an American Mangaka. Haters can simply take a long walk off a short pier.
That’s fair plus it’s funny that one of the greatest mangas ever written/drawn was by a woman
Hiromu arakawa Fullmetal alchemist
But hopefully I didn’t offend anyone with my takes because after all it’s just my opinion
@@SINVERSE137 not offended at all, I just think there is some important context to be had as to why a lot of people choose manga over western comics, especially Marvel and DC. (As far as primary western comics go anyway, Image, Top Cow, Mad Cave, Boom!, etc are very different)
1. You cant keep your copyright like you can with indie western publishers.
2. You have to work on existing characters if you don't want to bring your own.
3. The gatekeeping in the Big Two is still a real thing. It's improved a lot, but it's very real as someone who experienced it first hand multiple times.
All of those could be major contributors to why folks don't seek out being part of the western comic community.
Plus, manga is much more readily available. Not everyone knows to make a pull list or know what a pull list is! Lol when I loved to TN, upon walking into my LCS, the owner took one look at me and said "we don't have manga"...
"I WAS here to set up a pull list but now I'll go somewhere else" and I did go somewhere else. I've had male comic book shop workers try to direct me ro "feminine comics" when I'd rather read "The Devil That Wears My Face" or "When the Blood has Dried". And that's just MY experiences...
I'm not saying manga doesn't have its problems, it very much does. But I have exoerienced a lot more issues among western comic book folk than manga folk. The worst thing I get from manga folks is them pointing out I'm not a "mangaka" cause I'm American or mocking me for my weight.
It's a deep rooted issue with multiple factors causing the separation.
@@ArtCrumbs nothing but fax that’s why I made this kind of video to try to get conversations like this going and circulating throughout the space because in my honest opinion as someone who is inspired heavily by both comics and manga amongst a myriad of a whole bunch of other stuff I’d like to see less of the divide when on a superficial level, both mediums produce some of the greatest pieces of fictional media in pop culture today that can be universally enjoyed and just as inspirational to any and all who wish to do what we do
Instead of dumbasses with separatist and tribalist mind states
Part of the reason for the divide is the nature od humans to put things in boxes and "stand out" from each other.
I also differentiate Godsbane and Onami as "manga" because the demographics/psychographics (in terms of marketing my work) of western comics and manga are NOT the same.
Identifying which it is helps the reader know what to expect. If I pitched my Onami title with Viz as a comic, marvel or Image readers would peobably be disappointed to see it only be 50pages with no color.
It's as much marketing as it is personal preference. I HAVE to communicate in the language my target audience will understand. I don't like the idea of lumping them all together. That would make finding what I want to read a lot harder. I ain't got time for that stuff. Make it easy! Be specific!
If I'm making my thing in japanese style(paneling,orientation or everything in general) but I'm not Japanese,can I still call it a manga?
Call it whatever you want it’s all the same tbh I was just trying to share my thoughts and opinions on the silliness of labeling and tribalism in both spaces
@@SINVERSE137 yeah,I get u. I was just asking what to call it in case there is a need to advertise it.😅
@@KrishSingh-wd2ynYou can call it a manga or Western Manga, there's a UA-camr named Whyt Manga who makes mangas all the time. He is a Black American who does tutorials about it. Don't let anyone personal hang-ups stop you.
@kyarabarrion4523 💯
I just made a video about this.
But your comic... Is manga influenced... Was this to get attention? It worked. 😂
No disrespect bro, but I think you’re missing the point. I was trying to make a video.