Thank you for taking the time to answer my question in such a clear and well thought out way, of course raises more questions in my head but I think any good answer should always result in you asking more but better questions.
Thank you so much Samuel. I came to love orchestral music through Zappa. Varese,Stravinsky and Webern give me so much joy in my life even though I have no music theory background. Self taught amateur bass player. Your music and casts are now an addition to those joys. Love the Magic Band interviews!! Would love to hear your music live one day in Australia! Thanks again x❤
The Ligeti and Bolcolm etudes are what made me decide seriously t stop practicing the piano so much and start composing . composing has actually helped me play piano better .I go for longer phrases and sound now not single notes which is not good for the hands of a pianist .Patterns in the hands is the secret Chopin gave us a long time ago and how this has noting to do with rhythm or positing in or our of the beat .
I greatly appreciate the response, and apologize for not expressing my thought properly; I completely agree that the music that you have looked at looks backwards as much as forwards, and having listened to later Webern and Stockhausen, I have myself noted their ties with earlier ideals. However, In general, the music you look at has an interest to try and attempt new processes, new systems, that are completely or partly original: the serial procedures of Gesang der Jünglinge, the irritable, irrational rhythms of Boulez' Deuxième Sonate, the combination of tape and live ensemble in Varèse's Déserts. What I am fascinated by as a student and lover of new music is the extension of older, more primal concepts using techniques developed by the composer and used throughout their composition; I adore the music of Ligeti, Takemitsu, and Adams for the very reason that they take these forms or ideas, be they a passacaglia, tonal harmony, or traditional instruments like the biwa and shakuhachi, and put them to new limits and new devices that implement and integrate wholly the new and the old. In all of your analyses you tend to explore the new concepts that these composers use (as any analysis of new music should), but I would like to see more examinations of these combined or pre-sourced techniques. These analyses are not just any analyses of new music, they are something very special, very artist, and beautifully crafted all around, and I would just like to see you look at these older ideas on a more detailed level in the future. Certainly, continue to explore the new, but every so often, look back at the old in pieces (and by that I do not mean look at older pieces like a Bach Cantata, but the older concepts inherent in any "modern" composition). Continue your fantastic work, and I look forward to videos on Pärt and hopefully a bit of Ligeti, who both may be a canvas for the type of analysis described above.
Thanks for your thoughtful response to my response. I understand what you mean: it has to do with the degree to which the composer explicitly plays with elements of traditional styles and techniques in their music. I suppose I have looked at a number of pieces in which these traditional elements are absorbed, transfigured, or abstracted to such a degree that they are not always immediately recognizable as such. There are plenty of pieces, however, that I admire, that are more explicit in that regard. I do plan on having a closer look at Takemitsu very soon. Possibly Arvo Pärt as well. Best regards.
A video on zappa would be glorious! Theres a brilliant gentleman named Brett Clement who has published a few papers studying his music, all of which are highly informative and interesting despite the difficulties in investigating Frank's music (mostly lack of obtainable scores). I suggest you look into them if you haven't. They contain many worthwhile concepts for exploration! especially regarding the reference book frank created as an aid to his orchestral composition. I enjoy your videos very much and i find them to be quite inspiring! The wonderful conversations your content springs in the comments are a treat as well! Can't wait to see what your channel brings in the future
HallMonitor Thank you for the information about Brett Clement, I would be interested to read more about that. I am seriously interested in doing a Zappa video and would be far likelier to do it if I could get ahold of the scores easily. If anyone here reading this has copies, please get in touch.
I like your approach. I hope music teachers and composers of the future are like you. You give me hope for the future. You like Zappa and all that, studied at IRCAM, I couldn't ask for more.
Just discovered your channel. Very impressed, especially with your analysis of Frownland. I am of an age that when I first heard Beefheart, I was most open to exploring different things, which weren't on the radio at the time. I loved it from first hearing, and cannot understand why people could be put off by it. It is strange, because I used to listen to the British Third Programme when I was under 10 years of age in the 1950s, and I am sure I listened to Boulez and Stockhausen, and loved listening to them. There was also a TV series about Japanese culture, which got me interested in their music. Later, I got to hear Bartok, Stravinsky etc, whose music I still love. I don't know why I was attracted to such music, there was nothing similar in my family background.
Steve Kiley Good to hear from you. I'm very interested in the question of why certain people seem to appreciate this music spontaneously, whereas others almost can't stand listening to it. It's not obvious to me why that is. Keep in touch. Greetings from London.
Thanks for airing my Zappa question, Samuel. The sort of approach you outlined is just what I'm looking forward to. Of course you don't do him like Webern ;) I have The Yellow Shark and the LSO albums cued up for listening this week, so I'll get back to you with a suggestion of a relatively short (acoustic orchestral!) piece, though I certainly don't expect a video in the next six months, let alone soon. You have a lot on your desk ;) Incidentally before I begin, great comments on rock journalism. I won't share the many forms of violent death I wish on Robert Christgau ;) But even Lester Bangs, who was highly sympathetic to Trout Mask, propagated the myth that TMR is free jazz, even if he was right to point out the influences (and Don and his cousin's untutored horn bleatings certainly weren't written out by John French beforehand, as he explained in your video). I have a lot of comments on computer music ... First, let me assure you that I completely get your perspective on it, especially with your extensive background in electronic music and your time at IRCAM. I am down with the idea of the fatal flaw of no limitations. Of course as a progressive and avant garde rock guy, I have a hard time imagining a keyboard synthesizer as not a musical instrument, since it takes real-time skill to perform on it; the sound sources are sort of immaterial. But you weren't talking about synths, you were talking about sequencing. Sure, I'd allow that the equipment used to produce music that way are not "musical instruments" but I also think it's sort of a semantic quibble. The people who *create* music using those devices, whether it's the most mindless, churned-out limbic techno or the most abstruse IRCAM avant garde, while "musicians" they might not strictly be while engaging in that process, are still certainly *composers.* You would allow this, I trust? As Frank Zappa famously said, if you can think design, you can execute design ;) Back to the fatal flaw of the ideal sampling computer / DAW that can render literally anything (and that we're ever closer to attaining at reasonable consumer prices). I think it has its uses with which you'd at least sympathize. For instance, somebody bought that Vienna orchestra sampling library (it's like $400+ a pop because of the licensing rights) and did an absolutely extraordinary realization of Le Sacre du Printemps. I mean, you should listen to this, Samuel (it's on UA-cam of course) -- it will absolutely blow you away. The definition is *mindblowing.* No acoustic orchestral rendition can compete with it in terms of being able to hear all the different lines. And since Stravinsky was such a strict-tempo, anti-rubato anti-Romantic, the issue of not having a conductor is kind of immaterial (although I wouldn't want to hear, say, Beethoven rendered this way; Le Sacre just happens to be ideally suited for this treatment. Hey, Iggy was really into the Pianola ;). So it has its practical uses. Digital scores in low-budget movies have been around as long as MIDI, but doubtless now we'll see more big-budget movies with soundtracks that the audience would never be able to tell are entirely digitized and all the instruments they hear are sampled and not performed. A real cost-cutter. And also an unmitigated tragedy. The musician's union folks who panicked when Moogs became popular were overreacting, but today they're absolutely on the money. This will cost many working musicians their jobs. And that's just plain wrong and gets me furious ... So yes, what your commenter described has a terrible and tragic downside. But this is all by way of introduction. Because now I want to talk about the legitimate artistic reasons for using this sort of gear to realize your music and, to a degree, defend it. After the idiocies of Zappa's last tour, when his band members began fighting with each other and Zappa cancelled the remaining dates and fired most of them, and after the fiasco of working with the LSO, where musicians used union break rules and a bar on the sound stage to get loaded during the recording, Zappa gave up on human musicians. The Ensemble Modern really had to get down on its knees and beg and plead with him to perform his music, and they made him an offer, as the Don says, he couldn't refuse ;) His experience with them -- the last one of his life with human musicians -- was entirely positive. It's a shame that cooperative ensembles like that, including Musikfabrik and InterContemporain, make much less money than the orchestras that saw away on Beethoven and Tchaikovsky and yet perform at a much higher level of proficiency. So Zappa turned to the Synclavier. Bear in mind this was in the late 80s and early 90s when computer memory was quite expensive; Zappa's gear couldn't effectively emulate a human orchestra even if that was something he wanted to do, which it wasn't. So that's a limitation right there. Zappa used it to get groups of voices to accurately render complex polyrhythms and nested tuplets, and that's certainly as aesthetically justifiable as Conlon Nancarrow using a custom lathe to cut Pianola rolls for significantly similar reasons. Surely you'd allow Nancarrow into the ranks of important 20th century composers ;) I know you don't think subjective evaluations are useful, but allow me to say that I prefer Zappa's Synclavier music to even the Ensemble Modern. Again, it's an issue of definition. Finally, Samuel, I'm going to make a shameless, self-indulgent plug for my own music, because I think you're the only person on all of UA-cam who might be able to appreciate it ;) It's computer music, but it's extremely limited by the crude technology and software I used. It's also outsider music, as autodidactic and intuitive as Captain Beefheart. It's all up on UA-cam but it has very few views because of the acousmatic issue -- nobody is thrilled to imagine some weird guy with a DOS computer mousing in notes that are executed with a 16-bit FM synthesis Sound Blaster card in those horribly cheesy old-school General MIDI patches, with no dynamics to speak of (because my sequencing program is so limited). If I had made some cutesy videos to go along with it, it might've gone viral, but that's not my style ;) But I'm not talking about my progrock album Folk Music From Other Planets. As an academically trained composer, you'd doubtless find the parameters I'm working with, at the very best, touchingly naive. (I wrote much of it on the piano as a teenager). I'm talking about Chthonian Realms, my avant garde stuff. Here's one thing you could do on a rainy afternoon, when you're dead-bored and out of inspiration. Fire up the 'Tube and punch in McClintic Sphere -- Sinfonia. Just Sinfonia, nothing else. It's an eight-minute tune so it won't shave much of your remaining time on Earth away to listen to it. If it goes in one ear and out the other, that's fine; you don't have to bring it up and I'll never mention it again. But if it intrigues you, let me know and I'll share the rather bizarre story of how I composed it ;)
Snardbafulator Wow -- amazing comment. I feel very fortunate to get responses like yours. I'll do my best to address it. First, my contention that sequencers etc are not musical instruments is by no means a value judgement. It has more to do with the fact that because the technology is constantly changing, and many such devices are built in order to be as open as possible -- there is no chance of most of them remaining in the musical landscape for long enough to become settled objects. I suppose one criteria would be a minimum degree of permanence and stability. Otherwise, they are tools -- however spectacular -- but not elements of musical language. Throw that Zappa at me! And I'll look forward to hearing your music. Stay in touch.
Okay I gotcha. But as far as "settled objects" go, let's take for a second something as ubiquitous (and not just in Western musical culture) as the electric guitar. This isn't a settled object, either. There are now seven and eight-string guitars and there are five, six and seven string electric basses. There are tapping-based variants like the Chapman Stick and the Warr Guitar, and totally new string configurations like the X-tar. And then let's talk about the fluidity of guitar tuning, not just drop tunings but New Standard Tuning in fifths, and bassists (often cello players) who tune in fifths. So yes, the technologies (and techniques) are always evolving for sure ... As for the Zappa, I haven't finished listening yet, but almost. It won't be from the LSO. Either from Zappa's preferred crew of LA session musicians (on Orchestral Favorites) or the Ensemble Modern. I'll keep you posted ;)
Thanks, man. I see you listened to Sinfonia. I'm particularly proud of that one. And yes, it's not composed note-by-note, although I did a massive amount of editing with my ear as the final arbiter. It's too hot up here to go into the alpha and omega of how it's composed (which is quite a story in itself), but I'll say a few things. First, if you listen closely, despite consisting of five separate tracks (with percussion), it's based entirely on a single line of a single note value, which is run at some ungodly tempo (I think eighth notes at 350bpm if I'm recalling this correctly; the antique computer I composed it on is close to death and I dare not try to start it up). Thus the title is a nod to Bach's Sinfonia From Cantata No. 29, which some of the old schoolers might recall was the first track on Walter (later Wendy) Carlos's pioneering crossover Moog synthesizer hit, Switched-On Bach. That piece is a transcription (for organ, trumpets and tympani) of the Partita in E for solo violin. And it consists nearly entirely of a seamless sixteenth-note run, building glorious arpeggiated harmonic castles in the air out of a solo line. That was my model. Of course it sounds nothing remotely like Bach ;) That was the idea. There's virtually no repetition, for one, and certainly no planned out chord progressions (although there is what amounts to harmonic movement). As Zappa might say, just add water, makes its own sauce ;)
Finding meaning in music is a totally personal affair. Does the music talk to you, or not. Only you, yourself, can know, and it’s no one else’s business. But it is also meaningful to share your experiences with others. So, at the same time I would say that a piece of music is not completely finished until there has been a conversation about it. Don’t let anyone else tell you what you think and feel about music, trust your own intuition, but let others influence your judgement. Doubt is a virtue, and changing your mind is a mark of strength.
All my questions answered! Just kidding, but you certainly have packed an extraordinary amount of fascinating and useful information into this video. And Yes! the Ligeti piano etudes! Please!
@@samuel_andreyev hmmmmm, what changed for you between answering someone 6 years ago that "I am seriously interested in doing a Zappa video" & here saying "I'm not that interested in Zappa" (yes, i'm aware these are 2 different statements) & have things changed yet again in the following 3 years? also, what izzit about Zappa's music that prevents yr being interested in it?
Thank you for your response to my comment on Beefheart's "Frownland". Your point about so called rock critics is well taken. Many writers are totally ignorant of musical terms, harmony and rhythm and unable to put music in its proper context. Popular music has not developed the same critical tradition as classical or jazz An album like TMR demands a new way to listen and play in a rock context. Wonder if you have composed any music using this kind of polytonal and polyrhythmic language ? Your analyses are refreshing and provide a real critique of music and its organization. Keep up the good work Sen from UK
D Sen My own work is in a different vein. I mainly write pieces for orchestras, ensembles and soloists, although one branch of my music is engaged with writing and recording popular songs -- but of a very unusual nature. Check out my record The Tubular West if you're interested (available on Bandcamp).
So Samuel, I checked out The Tubular West. Very strange indeed ;) I'm a huge fan of quirky art rock and avant-cabaret; Slapp Happy, Art Bears, News From Babel, Cosa Brava, Fred Frith (who has a linkage to John French) so your idiom and materials were no mystery to me. That *has* to be you singing, of course ... This is not intended as a review, just an impression of how it bounces off my personal tastes. Objectively, I think it's very very well done and you achieve what you set out to do. I also love your lyrics. What the *hell* are you singing about? ;) But hey, I'm a Beefheart fanatic, so I appreciate the allusive-unto-idiolalia ;) Pure poetic images ... Musically, though, it could've been a lot weirder for me. I kept waiting for the odd scale or chord, an asymmetrical meter, but formally it's all pretty conservative, with your song and ragtime forms. I get that this is part of your plan, so again, this is not a review, just an impression. I'm not trying to pull a Robert Christgau on you ;) I'm going to have to check out your orchestral work now ...
I think that quote's apocryphally attributed to Zappa (another one: "writing about music is like dancing about architecture"), but in any case, it's "people who can't write, interviewing people who can't *think,* for people who can't read" ... The Real Frank Zappa Book (his authorized memoirs) has some delicious snark about rock journalists and the _Ancient Incompetents_ whose initial flawed Zappa articles went into newspaper morgue files and were resurrected (sans fact checking) in virtually every piece on Zappa since.
idiosyncratic musical geniuses famous for their outsider mentalities, and short jagged pieces with irregular. They might have more in common than you think
I quite like TMR, it's not an every day thing but it's a good point of reference for those of us who are desperate for a moment of inspiration. Frownland is a blooming masterpiece In my personal opinion.
Love the lab coat Samuel, it suits you well!! :) Thanks for all the important knowledge Doc!! PS. I just listened to “Tank” by Emerson Lake and Palmer, can you analize that?
Okay Samuel ... after a bunch of dedicated listening and hard decision making, here are a handful of orchestral Zappa pieces that you might choose between for a video: *Pedro's Dowry: Orchestral Favorites* (1979) This is with the "Abnuceals Emuukha Electric Symphony Orchestra," Zappa's Dadaist moniker for a core of LA session musicians who have worked with him since his first record, Freak Out. The release was held up due to major conflicts with Warners and recorded in the early 70s. The advantage with this ensemble is that by the time of this recording, they had familiarity with Zappa's style and indeed, some of Zappa's favorite musicians are on it, Bruce Fowler (on trombone) in particular. Ever since Zappa learned that a Schoenberg piece was panned for having the "obscene" sound of a trombone glissando, he's been _all about_ the trombone glissandi ;) Bruce also played with Beefheart on his late 70s recordings (and he might be my favorite trombonist). The recording and performance are superlative (if overdubbed to correct mistakes), and the composition shows an admirable thematic unity. ua-cam.com/video/m1_lASDehhk/v-deo.html *Dupree's Paradise: The Perfect Stranger* (1984) I think I like Boulez and the Ensemble InterContemporain a hair more than the Ensemble Modern, at least in terms of overall sound, which is gorgeous on this recording. This piece began in Zappa's group as a short fusion / progrock style head for a series of 5/4 jams, and I think I actually prefer the tune that way; the theme stated by the orchestra does sound a little hokey, like a film soundtrack. But once past the opening, there are some interesting developments. ua-cam.com/video/BK4zB5pD3_o/v-deo.html (Start at 24 : 03) *Bob In Dacron, Second Movement: London Symphony Orchestra, Vol. 2* (1987) I decided to include a tune from the LSO (Kent Nagano conducting) because flawed as it is, it's a landmark recording -- one of the first digital multitracked recordings of a symphony orchestra. I chose this tune because it features Chad Wackerman on kit drums among the orchestral percussion. Aside from the fact that Chad is one of my all-time favorite drummers, rhythm is very important to Zappa's musical concept, and he tried for years to mix orchestra with a drum kit to mixed results. Digital multitracking made it work here ;) ua-cam.com/video/2DbY4eZHBSk/v-deo.html *Put A Motor In Yourself: Greggery Peccary and Other Persuasions* (2002) This the Ensemble Modern doing official arrangements of Zappa's music, including a number of "unplayable" Synclavier pieces, including this one. This is one of my top five favorite Zappa pieces and an example of perhaps my favorite style of music. Note the Stravinsky influence: the motoric, ever-shifting ostinato, the fluid melodies, the unpredictable harmonic off-course swerves. A tune I could put on repeat, Pavlov's dog-like, for hours ;) Make your own choice, but I'm voting for this one for the video ;) ua-cam.com/video/8TywVjyM638/v-deo.html *Put A Motor In Yourself: Civilization Phaze III* (1994) And just as a reference, here's the original Synclavier version on Frank's last studio release. I probably like both versions equally on balance, but they both have their unique qualities. There's more definition in the Synclavier version (naturally), especially in the higher, quicker parts, but the acoustic version is incredibly alive ... I love the winds and brass to death; the accuracy is amazing. ua-cam.com/video/DzNVKdqz4sE/v-deo.html
Thank you for these suggestions -- I will have a listen. Apologies for the late response: it is difficult for me to keep track of UA-cam comments lately because there have been so many of them, and they're sometimes buried in lengthy chains of responses. Looking forward to hearing these pieces.
Oh Samuel, this has been a UA-cam thread for the ages. Such great conversations with TheStuF, Ben Schweitzer, you and others ... It might never go viral, but I love how there are nearly 100 upvotes and not a single downvote. That's actually pretty rare on UA-cam threads ;)
Yes, it's extraordinary how positive the reaction has been so far. I'm so happy that this has turned into a stimulating forum for multiple viewpoints. Avanti, excelsior, continuons..
A couple of quick points. It is conceded early in this post that one's culture - by which, in part, I take it to mean (incorrectly?) one's "aesthetic" culture - informs how one does or does not make sense of - and, thus, engage with - a work of art. I completely agree with this. Further to this, although I do agree with the assessment given here of Rock criticism in part, I think it important to note that when a Rock critic attempts to describe the work of an artist by way of comparison to other artists (say, The Beatles and The BeeGees as given here) the purpose is to orientate the reader to the piece under review by contextualising it within the pre-existing culture of Rock and Pop. The Rock critic would never usually presume a technical knowledge of music on behalf of his readership but could reasonably expect the readership to be versed in the culture of Rock and so employs this very utilitarian technique of writing. I am aware that Samuel was talking in regards to himself when stating that he finds little use for criticism that describes a piece of work by comparison to prior work from other artists but, for a readership that can't be assumed to have facility with (or interest in) technical language, I feel that the Rock critic's necessary reliance on demonstrating how the work under review has potential antecedents within the culture is massively useful. (In regards to this lack of technical language: I think one will find that when a none musician - potentially inclusive of the Rock critic themselves -or, even, a none schooled musician describes something as being "atonal" what they MEAN is that they find it discordant or tuneless. Tonality, in its technically correct application, is NOT likely something that the lay person would reference. So, when such a person states they find something like "Trout Mask Replica" "atonal", they are not claiming anything about the key centres found or lacking in the work, what they are saying is that they find it a noisy, tuneless racket!😄). One final point. It strikes me, watching this post, that there is a very apparent distinction between how say, Classical / European Art Music and Rock / Pop are appreciated by the enthusiast. A successful piece of Rock or Pop will often engage the Head and the Heart in whatever degree of balance between the two. To listen to Samuel's explanation of how he engages with an unfamiliar work, it appears to me that his engagement is largely, if not wholly, intellectual and logical. I'm not saying that a piece of work that engages the intellect more than the heart cannot be exciting and / or valuable but, I cannot but help feel here that the ultimate end of this approach would almost be to transform music, it's composition, performance and appreciation, from an art and into a science. Now, that would be a cultural disconnect between Classical and Rock!
I would like to know your thoughts of Keith Emerson as a composer and as an interpreter of Classical pieces arranged for a Progressive Rock trio, i.e. Bartok, Mussorgsky, Copeland, and Ginastera. Like Frank Zappa and Robert Fripp, he was one of a few sophisticated musicians to emerge from Rock music and introduced Classical music to a Rock audience who would otherwise probably never find out about them. I love to write pieces using Quartal and Quintal Harmonies and I'm influenced by Emerson's use of them. Zappa and Fripp have a love for those harmonic structures.
Thankyou for our unbelievably quick response ! the 2nd pp has my really important question since you knw compputers . The work you're doing here is important and i hope for many will open them up to musics(pop and otherwise they may have not been exposes to before . You amaze many of us here and we are all of us I'm sure exceedingly grateful for the work and wisdom and knowledge your work here affords us students! My ,my and you appreciate CaptainBeefheart and Zappa !!! There is a special place in Heaven for your type! I couldn't believe you had time to respond to my almost silly question about your hands but someday a student will come across the info when researching your life and amssing your letters and THEN ! it will mattter and maybe help others understand things in your scores too ! Do you play several instruments in addition to the piano ? Most of us have 1 if not 2 semesters of orchestration but i cant play a wind or brass or percussion instrument really - just violin &piano and awd does that help with string writing in general !? I've heard and seen some of your works here . The score was a beauty in itself and the music very memorable . My world and Im sure that of many student's has been made immeasurably more joyful . Ircam is a great place to study and work . Is it possible with a computer to mimic the sound of exhaustion or great exertion , a Gould suddenly entranced or Sokolov's seeming cleverness as if he knows the expression he is doing or the phrasing is going to leave listeners agape . There are so many human qualities I wouls ask you that it would seem to me can never be reproduced and then again a human can do it 1000 times diffeently without programing assuch - as in Schnable's recordings dastardly physical unsurety or as in countless other's confusion . it's more than a pause here or there . It's a spiritual and sometimes PHYSICAL thing . How close would you say computers can get to these type of processes . I hope I make for myself half the adventures , life changing oppurtunities and chances to meet great minds in music etc . as you have ( did you meet or see Boulez at Ircam or in Paris ? Computers can't give us the sound we hear when a performer is being pushed to their limits.Somethings need to sound difficult . Breath and rubato ,exertion etc.. Can these be copied with a machine. You would know with your great engagement with thesethings! emotion or the sound of when a performer literally is engaged emotionally Argerich or Uchida cannot be copied by a machine. It goes beyond the measured paremeters we have come up with . Also since I have myself been having fun changing the tibre of instruments with simple tuning processes how close can we get to the sound of a singer's voice . I 'm thinking your work at Ircam might have given you some look into these types of questions ?
I have a question. I've been always very impressed with several pieces of the Well-Tempered Clavier (Book I) but until recently I didn't know there was also a Book II. Apparently the compositions in Book II are more complicated than the ones in Book I, is that correct? Is Book II of similar value as Book I? Any significant differences? A short simplified answer would be sufficient for me as a first orientation. Thanks
Book 1 was written when Bach was younger. It has just as much value and reflects sometimes a more youthful approach to the material. The pieces are no less complicated. You should learn them all and do nothing else for 12 years and then go outside and smoke a cigar, or else!
Is there a biographical reference regarding Bach that your comment about getting shot while smoking pertains to? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious.
Yes. The famous ,popular works follow a lot of traditional parameters so we get them immediately and some like Mussorgsky are so odd and different that they have more obvious appeal.I fell in love with he Eroica upon first hearing Shostakovich big viollin concerto took about 20 years and Ive had the orchestral score since I was 12 because my violin teacher gave me his!. Now Hadyn wrote 7 piano concerti but only one of them in D is instantly lovable for me . It has taken me a year to find interest in Pousseur . It s strange I kept coming back to works Im supposed to know and was bored and coudnt find anything to "hook " my focus or interes on . Finally Im ready to hear it
Yet another possibility: "A Nun Suit Painted On Some Old Boxes" and/or "Dew on the Newts" (both from 200 Motels). He seems to be playing around with 12-tone technique (or something that sounds like it; can't tell if he's being rigorous about it), switching abruptly, yet smoothly, to more traditional forms.
@@whycantiremainanonymous8091 the entire "The Pleated Gazelle" sequence (which includes "A Nun Suit...", "Dew On The Newts We Got", "The Girl Wants To Fix Him Some Broth" & more, some of which verges on polyvocal sound poetry) is a twisted treat!
ahhhh wow I like your music... whats the name of the song and album that its on ?? im a huge Frank Zappa Fan too. Do u have any of Frank Zappa's albums in your own collection too ??? I have all of his studio albums . I Listen to Captain Beefheart also.. I have all of his albums too
I greatly enjoyed your video. I am a rock n roll drummer, starting to compose electronic music, ala Zappa style. I liked your opinions on the computer composing...if I write something using a bass clarinet, I know that anything below the lowest note ( e flat...) is useless...I make sure to use proper theory, but that's why I like composing electronic as the palette is much wider. Zappa's opinions are taken as a primer, for me...I have listened to all his influences in the hopes that I might gleen some nuggets of inspiration too, in them. Don't forget humour! it's very important...Spike Jones, Carl Stalling, Peter Shickelle...and Frank, gives new listeners accessability. I will continue to view your videos. I will never ask a "gotcha" type question...I am a self taught composer, with the help of Frank, and I am in earnest, to know more...Thank-you.
You mentioned Harry Partch in a previous video, would you be interested in doing an analysis of one of his works? I'm not too familiar with his notation but afaik it was mostly describing specific ratios or it was tablature based on the instrument it was written for.
I've heard his music performed live once or twice and really enjoyed it. He's not someone I'm considering doing a video on immediately, although I'll certainly keep the idea in mind.
A comment on your attitude towards synthesis and computer musical instruments: Music can either be seen as the concious time related addition of harmonics into timbre and duration or either as filtering noise in a similar fashion. Both interpretations are however already a form of musical synhtesis. So acoustic synthesis is always an inherent aspect of music, even if the "synthesizer" is limited to a (series of) real world object(s) / instruments(s). If one revolution really followed WW2 it is that of timbral freedom. For the first time in history the composer can actually build his own instruments. Granted, computer technology is only just another tool, just like the saw cuts the wood that will become violin is, but constricting oneself to the tones that have been around for so long is just as conservative as it is to constrict onselef to popularly accepted tonality. For me personally both aspects are inseparable.
You should do a Varése video, considering he is so influential on Zappa and Zappa being so influential on Beefheart. I really like your channel, and your passion for the more off beat composers. Been that way my whole life. Great job bud.
Samuel Andreyev I really enjoy your channel, my wife and myself have both worked in the commercial music industry for many years. My great great uncle was the composer Aaron Copland and I got to meet him when I was 7 years old. My dad used to ask him to record the Beatles music with an orchestra and he would laugh. Cool guy. I love your enthusiasm for Captain Beefheart also, was fascinating watching you speak to Drumbo, I thought I wouldn't be able to watch for more than 5 minutes, but ended up watching the entire video. Incredible insight into those years. Your doing great work, thanks again. Cheers!!!!
In particular, the instrumental music of Frank Zappa precisely between the years of 1969 and 1971 are, in my estimation (and I know his music very, very well) his best and most important music. The instrumental passages on these albums: Uncle Meat- Hot Rats- Burnt Weeny Sandwich- Weasels Ripped My Flesh- Chunga’s Revenge- 200 Motels are extraordinary. I think this was his most intensely creative and original period. I could talk about the precise notes, rhythms, chords, harmonies if anyone was interested.
Since someone asked about zappa, Id like to ask you, what do you think about johnny greenwood? specifically his scores for films and chamber orchestra work. Would you ever consider doing a video on one of his pieces? thanks for taking the time to do these Q&As
Thank you very much for your interesting videos. Can you tell me what software you use to produce them? (with the split screen interviews etc.) Many thanks,
Your differentiation between computers and musical instruments is interesting. One can translate that idea into our new environment when thinking about human intelligence and Ai. It is the limitations of our intelligence that makes it human. Do you think there are ways of thinking about the relationship between musical instruments and computers that could aid our tentative thinking about the relationship between humans and AI?
Great video. thanks Google say jt productions "Zappa Beefheart" or " She dances in the Wind " or "Modern Composers" (Threnody for FZ) I write for both of them
The answer to whether a computer is a musical instrument is simple and direct. At the moment that a computer is used AS a musical instrument, it is a musical instrument. It becomes a musical instrument in the hands of a musician. A computer is certainly an instrument. And a computer can be musical. Is the computer unbounded or does it have boundaries? The computer can be many things, but there are limitations. Same with a sheet of brass! The metal becomes a musical instrument at the moment it is formed into a flute or trombone. The sheet of brass can be viewed as unbounded in that it can become a doorknob or many other things. It becomes a bounded object when it is formed. The difference is that it is perceived by us people as more fixed in shape. Although it could be melted down and reformed into something else. So what is the difference between a sheet of brass becoming a musical instrument, and a computer becoming a musical instrument? Time. The computer can change what it is very quickly. That is the only difference. The computer can be programmed rapidly, and the sheet of brass programming takes a while. How about limitations? When a computer is used as a musical instrument, it has limitations. As far as playing in a technically satisfying manner, that depends on the implementation and facility of how the computer is used. And that situation has been improving. So it becomes a question of time and development for the realization of a computer as musical instrument in the minds of people.
Well just don't pull a Milton Babbitt on us and use your medicalwear to go all scientistic and claim that the man on the street can't comprehend this music because the man on the street can't comprehend quantum mechanics ;) Better Living Through Chemistry and all ...
Absolutely fascinating video. I would love to hear your thoughts (one day when you have time) on the turntable as a musical instrument (or not). The history of "turntablism" is very interesting and I wonder if it is something you have thought about/studied in any way. Your thoughts on computer music regarding limitations/lack of are extremely interesting to me and also made me start wondering what you would think about music created by turntables (limitations previously in existence in the artform have been "lifted" recently by Digital Vinyl Simulation and there is an interesting debate ongoing as many fans/turntablists believe "the old way" will always be "better" and I, amongst others, associate that to a large extent with the various limitations being removed). If it is something that interests you two (quite different) examples of "turntablism" are Kid Koala (I recommend his album "Carpal Tunnel Syndrome" first) and The X- Ecutioners. DJ Rob Swift is a professor at The New School in New York and his thoughts on the subject are extremely interesting.
Computer as a musical instrument: I think if it can be used to make music, it is literally a musical instrument. That said, computer technology also makes possible what I call "paint-by-numbers music." You can cut and paste loops, beats, and samples from other peoples' skill and creativity to assemble a piece of music. "What's wrong with that?" people ask. Well, nothing, if you're just a hobbyist, enjoying instant gratification from a pleasant pastime. But I would not call that being a musician, or a producer. I agree with Mr Andreyev, that the lack of limitations is the limitation of the computer as a musical instrument, in that it contributes to the decline of music education and the decline in people learning to play an actual musical instrument. I love my laptop with it's DAW and a literal "orchestra at my fingertips," and I love being able to produce music in my living room that a couple of decades ago could only have been done in a professional recording studio. But what enables my ability to do that is years of practice and performance and a thorough enough understanding of music to be able to score and chart it for other musicians. I don't need or want loops, beats, or samples. Everything I write and record on my computer can also be performed live by musicians, even without electricity, if need be. I'm not saying this to boast, I'm saying it because I've taught music for over 30 years and I would hate to see real musical skill and knowledge become a thing of the past, replaced by a copy and paste, paint-by-numbers, instant gratification hobby. Anyone who doubts this possibility needs only to listen to the shallow, formulaic music that dominates the popular airwaves and cyber stream. The joy of assembling loops, beats, and samples into a coherent piece of music is nothing compared to the joy of creating music from your own imagination and your own musicianship. That's all. I'm just advocating music education and putting the work in to be able to use it.
Is not the computer merely a tool? A tool for the imagination? Most instruments could be seen as a tool for expressing the musical ideas that you want to express. If, in your terms, and Berio's terms, the synthesiser is not an instrument (yet people make music on it) because it has no limitations (I think it does: it always sounds like a synthesiser and not a 'natural' organic - metal, wooden instrument that reflect their material in the noises they make (isn't that also true of the synthesiser?!) then surely it is a tool that 'without limitations' can make any sound you choose it to make and which you could use for music. Surely, if something is used for music then it is a musical instrument.
After hearing your response to the question concerned with electronic music, I would be very curious to know your opinion on the experimental hip-hop trio Death Grips, if you have one. They have been very well regarded in the past few years for their electronic experimentation and forward thinking sound
Hello, I'm afraid I don't know about Death Grips. Always interesting in hearing new things. If you have any specific listening suggestions, feel free to send me an email (address on my website -- www.samuelandreyev.com)
computers cant improvise the way people can, they can have a randomness aspect but i feel that is very different than the human ability to improvise music
I thought of responding to this in detail, but Samuel really should do it, because Van Dyke Parks did the orchestrations on that album, Ys, and he's a fan of Samuel's album The Tubular West ... Hint, hint, Samuel ;)
At 10:18, " the absence of audible rhythmic patterns" Hilarious! Getting away from dance rhythms and moving towards speech patterns? You mean like opera? Like prose? Is prose even speech? it doesn't necessarily have speech patterns. On Zappa, its a pity he needed the validation of composing 'classical' music. Even more unfortunate he was captivated by Webern and Boulez. What he got from Stravinski was enough, and he could have positioned himself directly following the Americana themes of Ives and Copeland.
You know we say this song sounds like that song. Then there's "It Can't Happen Here" which sounds like nothing else. It's a bit .. but only a bit .. like a barbers shop quartet. It's partly spoken rather than sung.
Marco Di Caprio Zappa Billboard charts: 10 Apostrophe(') 23 Ship Arriving Too Late To Save A Drowning Witch 27 Joe's Garage Act I 32 Over-Night Sensation 53 Joe's Garage Acts II & III He had a much more substantial following abroad also. Yes, he played popular music, among other things, genius…
F Stöver Yes, Zappa's response to that was that those pieces were thought of in terms of the recording studio, where you can achieve a balanced result through artful mixing. I agree though that the orchestration is not the strongest aspect of those pieces.
Right. As with 200 Motels, Yellow Shark, etc..they're intriguing scores, but lack lustre; there's little that can be done in the studio to rectify things after the fact.
I have always been a Captain Beefheart fan but when I listen to his music now I am confronted with its obvious contrivance. Obviously the music has to stand on its own without the associations of the composer's personality and the support of the music critics.
Many thanks for doing these analyses - Beefheart and Stockhausen treated equally. It's so good to see your serious approach being aired. The BBC used to do it but rarely now. I hadn't realised that Velvet's track was a response to boredom .. that sparks off comparisons to German band Faust /Tony Konrad - maybe Eno as well, and in literature David Foster Wallace's Pale King - but that's a place that can be hard to get out of.. Did you ever do a complete midi version of Frownland? Be interesting to hear! Or a link to your midi file?
I though the Pale King was absolutely brilliant, even in its unfinished state. I'm not going to share my transcription of Frownland beyond what is in the video as the music doesn't belong to me, and also my version doesn't claim to be authoritative: it's an approximation, which is due to the inherent difficulty of wrestling such crazy music onto paper.
Aha .. I kind of wondered if someone like you might be a DFW fan! Yes Pale King was brilliant, if not ideal for DFW novices - not sure if it was him or his editor who referred to it as "like wrestling balsa wood sheets in a gale..." So sad we don't have him around any more. I quite understand about Frownland - I enjoyed the contradictory regularity of the midified version. And many thanks for taking the time to reply.
Best UA-cam channel bar none John French's biography goes some way into organising and explaining the rhythmical complexities of Trout Mask (see the notes at the end), at least to this layman.
Hi, and sorry if i'm slightly off topic (and for my poor english). I'd like to know what you think of another great 60s album, Red Crayola's Parable of Arable Land. I realize that maybe it does not have the same complexity as Trout Mask Replica - for politonality - but I think it's great for another set of reasons. What do you think about it? Thank you
Well I have to recuse myself (there's a lot of that going around in America these days) from commenting on the record because it's completely outside my aesthetic wheelhouse, but apparently the Red Krayola (the spelling changed a little later) is considered a pioneering experimental 60s psychedelic band that continues to this day. I listened to the record and it's in the same general vein as the Nihilist Spasm Band. Basically a group of performers who attempt to make a virtue out of not being able to play their instruments. And I don't mean being marginally competent on them like punk rock -- I mean literally not knowing how to play their instruments. The music is a collection of events with vocals interspersed with instrumental "free form freakouts." There's some crude processing involved (Parable of Arable Land was recorded in 1968), tape loops, filtering, but they do everything they can to remove all semblance of musical structure, including drones and steady rhythm. The band has its fervent devotees and many people on the UA-cam thread call the record a masterpiece of psychedelia. Beyond this hopefully objective description, I can say little ...
Snardbafulator Careful, bro -- my uncle Greg Curnoe founded the Nihilist Spasm Band. But they had the capital virtue of a magnificent sense of humour. I was unable to listen to more than 3 minutes of Red Krayola.
Oh dude, I agree with you. I listened to a whole Nihilist Spasm Band record (once) with a big smile on my face ;) Humor always covers a cornucopia of sins ;) I just wanted to be respectful of the commenter and attempted to scrub all editorializing from my description. But I got caught in the reviewer's trap of needing to throw out a reference, especially for a "music event" so inherently difficult to describe ... I think I lasted to about the 11 minute mark :(
While, I agree some prior knowledge helps with understanding music (basics of rhythm, harmony, structure), isn't deconstructing a piece doing violence to the music? Shouldn't music express that which is inexpressible otherwise? At the end, you understand the parts, how they function, but you end up missing the forest for the trees. That's why I think music shouldn't require too much extra-musical knowledge. All that music requires is concentrated listening. Music, for me, has to be moving, it must touch your emotions on a deep level and possibly even your perceptions. Music operates outside of verbal understanding or communication. I guess deconstructing a piece is important for those studying composition and even then, you run the risk of imitating or being a reactionary, instead of listening to your inner voice.
I can't speak of factions per se, only individuals.. the ones who believe the idea that you can return to some lost utopia of past music, and thereby circumnavigate the thorny problems that composers working in 2017 must face.
Was past music a utopia, really? Maybe there's more to be discovered from the past. Didn't Schoenberg say something like there are plenty of great pieces to be written in C major?
I don't know too many composers of real achievement who would profess to despise history. The training is too long and too rigorous for that. There are artists, however, who are reflexively and unthinkingly hostile to genuine innovation after romanticism or thereabouts, and end up producing only pastiches. Great music of the past needs to be absorbed and transfigured, not slavishly imitated.
That's my point -- it wasn't a utopia, it was always dynamically evolving, and will continue to evolve. Innovations are always accompanied by loss and/or compromise. The harmonic style of the classical period entailed a lessening of the contrapuntal variety of renaissance music. And so on.
It's wrong to like rock music songs only because it shows some estructures similar to those of the avantgarde. That shows the infinite arrogance of the average" avantgarde composer " who just TOLERATES this music. Rock music has its historic relevance for the obvious reasons .
@@johnatwell2753 I should be clear that I think Beefheart is one of the very best and I love it. Zappa just goes right out the other side of my head. It doesn't stick to me.
Ruh-roh ... I never heard of Jordan Peterson so punched him into UA-cam. The guy sounds like an academic shilling for the alt right :( And even worse, trying to tweeze Biblical concepts into modern psychology. Hey ... Frank Zappa had libertarian tendencies but at core he was a Democrat who never met an intellectual wingnut he couldn't sneer at. Oh, and he was, of course, massively pro-choice ;)
Alright, I fired up the 'pedia on Peterson and may have snarked prematurely. Okay, so he doesn't like synthetic gender pronouns, fair enough. But to link this to "Marxism" is also kind of inexcusable for an academic who has made a career out of analyzing the deep structure of political rhetoric. The guy himself might not be intolerant, but he seems like a useful idiot for the intolerant. Academics should never be in business of being useful idiots.
"academic shilling for the alt right :( " If you can infer white nationalism from Peterson then I presume you are just a Derrida fanboy trying to slander Peterson.
No, definitely not a Derrida fanboy. I just punched Jordan Peterson into UA-cam and the videos that came up in the sidebar left that impression. I fully recognize I could've jumped the gun ...
Thank you for taking the time to answer my question in such a clear and well thought out way, of course raises more questions in my head but I think any good answer should always result in you asking more but better questions.
Thank you so much Samuel. I came to love orchestral music through Zappa. Varese,Stravinsky and Webern give me so much joy in my life even though I have no music theory background. Self taught amateur bass player. Your music and casts are now an addition to those joys. Love the Magic Band interviews!! Would love to hear your music live one day in Australia! Thanks again x❤
Please make more Beefheart analysis videos. You're amazing!
Oooh, the Ligeti etudes. Very much looking forward to that.
The Ligeti and Bolcolm etudes are what made me decide seriously t stop practicing the piano so much and start composing . composing has actually helped me play piano better .I go for longer phrases and sound now not single notes which is not good for the hands of a pianist .Patterns in the hands is the secret Chopin gave us a long time ago and how this has noting to do with rhythm or positing in or our of the beat .
Oh, an insight into Zappa's music would be wonderful! Ligeti also. Really looking forward to your future videos, as always.
I greatly appreciate the response, and apologize for not expressing my thought properly; I completely agree that the music that you have looked at looks backwards as much as forwards, and having listened to later Webern and Stockhausen, I have myself noted their ties with earlier ideals. However, In general, the music you look at has an interest to try and attempt new processes, new systems, that are completely or partly original: the serial procedures of Gesang der Jünglinge, the irritable, irrational rhythms of Boulez' Deuxième Sonate, the combination of tape and live ensemble in Varèse's Déserts. What I am fascinated by as a student and lover of new music is the extension of older, more primal concepts using techniques developed by the composer and used throughout their composition; I adore the music of Ligeti, Takemitsu, and Adams for the very reason that they take these forms or ideas, be they a passacaglia, tonal harmony, or traditional instruments like the biwa and shakuhachi, and put them to new limits and new devices that implement and integrate wholly the new and the old. In all of your analyses you tend to explore the new concepts that these composers use (as any analysis of new music should), but I would like to see more examinations of these combined or pre-sourced techniques. These analyses are not just any analyses of new music, they are something very special, very artist, and beautifully crafted all around, and I would just like to see you look at these older ideas on a more detailed level in the future. Certainly, continue to explore the new, but every so often, look back at the old in pieces (and by that I do not mean look at older pieces like a Bach Cantata, but the older concepts inherent in any "modern" composition). Continue your fantastic work, and I look forward to videos on Pärt and hopefully a bit of Ligeti, who both may be a canvas for the type of analysis described above.
Thanks for your thoughtful response to my response. I understand what you mean: it has to do with the degree to which the composer explicitly plays with elements of traditional styles and techniques in their music. I suppose I have looked at a number of pieces in which these traditional elements are absorbed, transfigured, or abstracted to such a degree that they are not always immediately recognizable as such. There are plenty of pieces, however, that I admire, that are more explicit in that regard. I do plan on having a closer look at Takemitsu very soon. Possibly Arvo Pärt as well. Best regards.
A video on zappa would be glorious! Theres a brilliant gentleman named Brett Clement who has published a few papers studying his music, all of which are highly informative and interesting despite the difficulties in investigating Frank's music (mostly lack of obtainable scores). I suggest you look into them if you haven't. They contain many worthwhile concepts for exploration! especially regarding the reference book frank created as an aid to his orchestral composition. I enjoy your videos very much and i find them to be quite inspiring! The wonderful conversations your content springs in the comments are a treat as well! Can't wait to see what your channel brings in the future
HallMonitor Thank you for the information about Brett Clement, I would be interested to read more about that. I am seriously interested in doing a Zappa video and would be far likelier to do it if I could get ahold of the scores easily. If anyone here reading this has copies, please get in touch.
I like your approach. I hope music teachers and composers of the future are like you. You give me hope for the future. You like Zappa and all that, studied at IRCAM, I couldn't ask for more.
I'd love to hear your analysis of Zappa's Put A Motor in Yourself.
love Civilization p3
Just discovered your channel. Very impressed, especially with your analysis of Frownland. I am of an age that when I first heard Beefheart, I was most open to exploring different things, which weren't on the radio at the time. I loved it from first hearing, and cannot understand why people could be put off by it.
It is strange, because I used to listen to the British Third Programme when I was under 10 years of age in the 1950s, and I am sure I listened to Boulez and Stockhausen, and loved listening to them. There was also a TV series about Japanese culture, which got me interested in their music.
Later, I got to hear Bartok, Stravinsky etc, whose music I still love.
I don't know why I was attracted to such music, there was nothing similar in my family background.
Steve Kiley Good to hear from you. I'm very interested in the question of why certain people seem to appreciate this music spontaneously, whereas others almost can't stand listening to it. It's not obvious to me why that is. Keep in touch. Greetings from London.
Thanks for airing my Zappa question, Samuel. The sort of approach you outlined is just what I'm looking forward to. Of course you don't do him like Webern ;) I have The Yellow Shark and the LSO albums cued up for listening this week, so I'll get back to you with a suggestion of a relatively short (acoustic orchestral!) piece, though I certainly don't expect a video in the next six months, let alone soon. You have a lot on your desk ;)
Incidentally before I begin, great comments on rock journalism. I won't share the many forms of violent death I wish on Robert Christgau ;) But even Lester Bangs, who was highly sympathetic to Trout Mask, propagated the myth that TMR is free jazz, even if he was right to point out the influences (and Don and his cousin's untutored horn bleatings certainly weren't written out by John French beforehand, as he explained in your video).
I have a lot of comments on computer music ...
First, let me assure you that I completely get your perspective on it, especially with your extensive background in electronic music and your time at IRCAM. I am down with the idea of the fatal flaw of no limitations. Of course as a progressive and avant garde rock guy, I have a hard time imagining a keyboard synthesizer as not a musical instrument, since it takes real-time skill to perform on it; the sound sources are sort of immaterial.
But you weren't talking about synths, you were talking about sequencing. Sure, I'd allow that the equipment used to produce music that way are not "musical instruments" but I also think it's sort of a semantic quibble. The people who *create* music using those devices, whether it's the most mindless, churned-out limbic techno or the most abstruse IRCAM avant garde, while "musicians" they might not strictly be while engaging in that process, are still certainly *composers.* You would allow this, I trust?
As Frank Zappa famously said, if you can think design, you can execute design ;)
Back to the fatal flaw of the ideal sampling computer / DAW that can render literally anything (and that we're ever closer to attaining at reasonable consumer prices). I think it has its uses with which you'd at least sympathize. For instance, somebody bought that Vienna orchestra sampling library (it's like $400+ a pop because of the licensing rights) and did an absolutely extraordinary realization of Le Sacre du Printemps. I mean, you should listen to this, Samuel (it's on UA-cam of course) -- it will absolutely blow you away. The definition is *mindblowing.* No acoustic orchestral rendition can compete with it in terms of being able to hear all the different lines. And since Stravinsky was such a strict-tempo, anti-rubato anti-Romantic, the issue of not having a conductor is kind of immaterial (although I wouldn't want to hear, say, Beethoven rendered this way; Le Sacre just happens to be ideally suited for this treatment. Hey, Iggy was really into the Pianola ;).
So it has its practical uses. Digital scores in low-budget movies have been around as long as MIDI, but doubtless now we'll see more big-budget movies with soundtracks that the audience would never be able to tell are entirely digitized and all the instruments they hear are sampled and not performed. A real cost-cutter. And also an unmitigated tragedy. The musician's union folks who panicked when Moogs became popular were overreacting, but today they're absolutely on the money. This will cost many working musicians their jobs.
And that's just plain wrong and gets me furious ...
So yes, what your commenter described has a terrible and tragic downside. But this is all by way of introduction. Because now I want to talk about the legitimate artistic reasons for using this sort of gear to realize your music and, to a degree, defend it.
After the idiocies of Zappa's last tour, when his band members began fighting with each other and Zappa cancelled the remaining dates and fired most of them, and after the fiasco of working with the LSO, where musicians used union break rules and a bar on the sound stage to get loaded during the recording, Zappa gave up on human musicians. The Ensemble Modern really had to get down on its knees and beg and plead with him to perform his music, and they made him an offer, as the Don says, he couldn't refuse ;) His experience with them -- the last one of his life with human musicians -- was entirely positive. It's a shame that cooperative ensembles like that, including Musikfabrik and InterContemporain, make much less money than the orchestras that saw away on Beethoven and Tchaikovsky and yet perform at a much higher level of proficiency.
So Zappa turned to the Synclavier. Bear in mind this was in the late 80s and early 90s when computer memory was quite expensive; Zappa's gear couldn't effectively emulate a human orchestra even if that was something he wanted to do, which it wasn't. So that's a limitation right there. Zappa used it to get groups of voices to accurately render complex polyrhythms and nested tuplets, and that's certainly as aesthetically justifiable as Conlon Nancarrow using a custom lathe to cut Pianola rolls for significantly similar reasons. Surely you'd allow Nancarrow into the ranks of important 20th century composers ;)
I know you don't think subjective evaluations are useful, but allow me to say that I prefer Zappa's Synclavier music to even the Ensemble Modern. Again, it's an issue of definition.
Finally, Samuel, I'm going to make a shameless, self-indulgent plug for my own music, because I think you're the only person on all of UA-cam who might be able to appreciate it ;) It's computer music, but it's extremely limited by the crude technology and software I used. It's also outsider music, as autodidactic and intuitive as Captain Beefheart. It's all up on UA-cam but it has very few views because of the acousmatic issue -- nobody is thrilled to imagine some weird guy with a DOS computer mousing in notes that are executed with a 16-bit FM synthesis Sound Blaster card in those horribly cheesy old-school General MIDI patches, with no dynamics to speak of (because my sequencing program is so limited). If I had made some cutesy videos to go along with it, it might've gone viral, but that's not my style ;) But I'm not talking about my progrock album Folk Music From Other Planets. As an academically trained composer, you'd doubtless find the parameters I'm working with, at the very best, touchingly naive. (I wrote much of it on the piano as a teenager). I'm talking about Chthonian Realms, my avant garde stuff.
Here's one thing you could do on a rainy afternoon, when you're dead-bored and out of inspiration. Fire up the 'Tube and punch in McClintic Sphere -- Sinfonia. Just Sinfonia, nothing else. It's an eight-minute tune so it won't shave much of your remaining time on Earth away to listen to it. If it goes in one ear and out the other, that's fine; you don't have to bring it up and I'll never mention it again. But if it intrigues you, let me know and I'll share the rather bizarre story of how I composed it ;)
Snardbafulator Wow -- amazing comment. I feel very fortunate to get responses like yours. I'll do my best to address it. First, my contention that sequencers etc are not musical instruments is by no means a value judgement. It has more to do with the fact that because the technology is constantly changing, and many such devices are built in order to be as open as possible -- there is no chance of most of them remaining in the musical landscape for long enough to become settled objects. I suppose one criteria would be a minimum degree of permanence and stability. Otherwise, they are tools -- however spectacular -- but not elements of musical language. Throw that Zappa at me! And I'll look forward to hearing your music. Stay in touch.
Okay I gotcha. But as far as "settled objects" go, let's take for a second something as ubiquitous (and not just in Western musical culture) as the electric guitar. This isn't a settled object, either. There are now seven and eight-string guitars and there are five, six and seven string electric basses. There are tapping-based variants like the Chapman Stick and the Warr Guitar, and totally new string configurations like the X-tar. And then let's talk about the fluidity of guitar tuning, not just drop tunings but New Standard Tuning in fifths, and bassists (often cello players) who tune in fifths. So yes, the technologies (and techniques) are always evolving for sure ...
As for the Zappa, I haven't finished listening yet, but almost. It won't be from the LSO. Either from Zappa's preferred crew of LA session musicians (on Orchestral Favorites) or the Ensemble Modern. I'll keep you posted ;)
I will enjoy your music :)
I am back after listening to some, I was right I enjoyed it and now I am listening to more. Fantastic!
Thanks, man. I see you listened to Sinfonia. I'm particularly proud of that one. And yes, it's not composed note-by-note, although I did a massive amount of editing with my ear as the final arbiter. It's too hot up here to go into the alpha and omega of how it's composed (which is quite a story in itself), but I'll say a few things. First, if you listen closely, despite consisting of five separate tracks (with percussion), it's based entirely on a single line of a single note value, which is run at some ungodly tempo (I think eighth notes at 350bpm if I'm recalling this correctly; the antique computer I composed it on is close to death and I dare not try to start it up).
Thus the title is a nod to Bach's Sinfonia From Cantata No. 29, which some of the old schoolers might recall was the first track on Walter (later Wendy) Carlos's pioneering crossover Moog synthesizer hit, Switched-On Bach. That piece is a transcription (for organ, trumpets and tympani) of the Partita in E for solo violin. And it consists nearly entirely of a seamless sixteenth-note run, building glorious arpeggiated harmonic castles in the air out of a solo line. That was my model.
Of course it sounds nothing remotely like Bach ;) That was the idea. There's virtually no repetition, for one, and certainly no planned out chord progressions (although there is what amounts to harmonic movement).
As Zappa might say, just add water, makes its own sauce ;)
ahh Beefheart and Webern, it's about time someone gave Don Van Vliet the respect he deserves; Frownland is my favorite song of his
Finding meaning in music is a totally personal affair. Does the music talk to you, or not. Only you, yourself, can know, and it’s no one else’s business. But it is also meaningful to share your experiences with others.
So, at the same time I would say that a piece of music is not completely finished until there has been a conversation about it.
Don’t let anyone else tell you what you think and feel about music, trust your own intuition, but let others influence your judgement.
Doubt is a virtue, and changing your mind is a mark of strength.
Found your channel because of your interview with Van Dyke however plan to stick around. Cheers!
Welcome.
All my questions answered! Just kidding, but you certainly have packed an extraordinary amount of fascinating and useful information into this video. And Yes! the Ligeti piano etudes! Please!
To contradict myself, very insightful comment on Webern's approach to rhythm. Thanks.
I'm writing a concerto for the Tenor Cacophone. "Cacophony".
4 years and still waiting for that Zappa analysis
I'm not the best person to do this. Others know his work far better and I'm not that interested in Zappa.
@@samuel_andreyev hmmmmm, what changed for you between answering someone 6 years ago that "I am seriously interested in doing a Zappa video" & here saying "I'm not that interested in Zappa" (yes, i'm aware these are 2 different statements) & have things changed yet again in the following 3 years?
also, what izzit about Zappa's music that prevents yr being interested in it?
Thank you for your response to my comment on Beefheart's "Frownland".
Your point about so called rock critics is well taken. Many writers are totally ignorant of musical terms, harmony and rhythm and unable to put music in its proper context. Popular music has not developed the same critical tradition as classical or jazz
An album like TMR demands a new way to listen and play in a rock context. Wonder if you have composed any music using this kind of polytonal and polyrhythmic language ?
Your analyses are refreshing and provide a real critique of music and its organization.
Keep up the good work
Sen from UK
D Sen My own work is in a different vein. I mainly write pieces for orchestras, ensembles and soloists, although one branch of my music is engaged with writing and recording popular songs -- but of a very unusual nature. Check out my record The Tubular West if you're interested (available on Bandcamp).
So Samuel, I checked out The Tubular West. Very strange indeed ;) I'm a huge fan of quirky art rock and avant-cabaret; Slapp Happy, Art Bears, News From Babel, Cosa Brava, Fred Frith (who has a linkage to John French) so your idiom and materials were no mystery to me.
That *has* to be you singing, of course ...
This is not intended as a review, just an impression of how it bounces off my personal tastes. Objectively, I think it's very very well done and you achieve what you set out to do. I also love your lyrics. What the *hell* are you singing about? ;) But hey, I'm a Beefheart fanatic, so I appreciate the allusive-unto-idiolalia ;) Pure poetic images ...
Musically, though, it could've been a lot weirder for me. I kept waiting for the odd scale or chord, an asymmetrical meter, but formally it's all pretty conservative, with your song and ragtime forms. I get that this is part of your plan, so again, this is not a review, just an impression.
I'm not trying to pull a Robert Christgau on you ;)
I'm going to have to check out your orchestral work now ...
"Most rock journalism is people who can't write, interviewing people who can't talk, for people who can't read". Frank Zappa
I think that quote's apocryphally attributed to Zappa (another one: "writing about music is like dancing about architecture"), but in any case, it's "people who can't write, interviewing people who can't *think,* for people who can't read" ...
The Real Frank Zappa Book (his authorized memoirs) has some delicious snark about rock journalists and the _Ancient Incompetents_ whose initial flawed Zappa articles went into newspaper morgue files and were resurrected (sans fact checking) in virtually every piece on Zappa since.
Pldease don't tell me this one is wrong, I really love it :-)
“Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.”
both Webern & Beefheart are great, in different terms.
idiosyncratic musical geniuses famous for their outsider mentalities, and short jagged pieces with irregular. They might have more in common than you think
I quite like TMR, it's not an every day thing but it's a good point of reference for those of us who are desperate for a moment of inspiration. Frownland is a blooming masterpiece In my personal opinion.
Love the lab coat Samuel, it suits you well!! :) Thanks for all the important knowledge Doc!!
PS. I just listened to “Tank” by Emerson Lake and Palmer, can you analize that?
aw, thanks!
Samuel Andreyev you,re quite welcome!
Thanks for sharing, I like the lab coat.
Okay Samuel ... after a bunch of dedicated listening and hard decision making, here are a handful of orchestral Zappa pieces that you might choose between for a video:
*Pedro's Dowry: Orchestral Favorites* (1979) This is with the "Abnuceals Emuukha Electric Symphony Orchestra," Zappa's Dadaist moniker for a core of LA session musicians who have worked with him since his first record, Freak Out. The release was held up due to major conflicts with Warners and recorded in the early 70s. The advantage with this ensemble is that by the time of this recording, they had familiarity with Zappa's style and indeed, some of Zappa's favorite musicians are on it, Bruce Fowler (on trombone) in particular. Ever since Zappa learned that a Schoenberg piece was panned for having the "obscene" sound of a trombone glissando, he's been _all about_ the trombone glissandi ;) Bruce also played with Beefheart on his late 70s recordings (and he might be my favorite trombonist). The recording and performance are superlative (if overdubbed to correct mistakes), and the composition shows an admirable thematic unity.
ua-cam.com/video/m1_lASDehhk/v-deo.html
*Dupree's Paradise: The Perfect Stranger* (1984) I think I like Boulez and the Ensemble InterContemporain a hair more than the Ensemble Modern, at least in terms of overall sound, which is gorgeous on this recording. This piece began in Zappa's group as a short fusion / progrock style head for a series of 5/4 jams, and I think I actually prefer the tune that way; the theme stated by the orchestra does sound a little hokey, like a film soundtrack. But once past the opening, there are some interesting developments.
ua-cam.com/video/BK4zB5pD3_o/v-deo.html
(Start at 24 : 03)
*Bob In Dacron, Second Movement: London Symphony Orchestra, Vol. 2* (1987) I decided to include a tune from the LSO (Kent Nagano conducting) because flawed as it is, it's a landmark recording -- one of the first digital multitracked recordings of a symphony orchestra. I chose this tune because it features Chad Wackerman on kit drums among the orchestral percussion. Aside from the fact that Chad is one of my all-time favorite drummers, rhythm is very important to Zappa's musical concept, and he tried for years to mix orchestra with a drum kit to mixed results. Digital multitracking made it work here ;)
ua-cam.com/video/2DbY4eZHBSk/v-deo.html
*Put A Motor In Yourself: Greggery Peccary and Other Persuasions* (2002) This the Ensemble Modern doing official arrangements of Zappa's music, including a number of "unplayable" Synclavier pieces, including this one. This is one of my top five favorite Zappa pieces and an example of perhaps my favorite style of music. Note the Stravinsky influence: the motoric, ever-shifting ostinato, the fluid melodies, the unpredictable harmonic off-course swerves. A tune I could put on repeat, Pavlov's dog-like, for hours ;)
Make your own choice, but I'm voting for this one for the video ;)
ua-cam.com/video/8TywVjyM638/v-deo.html
*Put A Motor In Yourself: Civilization Phaze III* (1994) And just as a reference, here's the original Synclavier version on Frank's last studio release. I probably like both versions equally on balance, but they both have their unique qualities. There's more definition in the Synclavier version (naturally), especially in the higher, quicker parts, but the acoustic version is incredibly alive ... I love the winds and brass to death; the accuracy is amazing.
ua-cam.com/video/DzNVKdqz4sE/v-deo.html
Thank you for these suggestions -- I will have a listen. Apologies for the late response: it is difficult for me to keep track of UA-cam comments lately because there have been so many of them, and they're sometimes buried in lengthy chains of responses. Looking forward to hearing these pieces.
Oh Samuel, this has been a UA-cam thread for the ages. Such great conversations with TheStuF, Ben Schweitzer, you and others ... It might never go viral, but I love how there are nearly 100 upvotes and not a single downvote. That's actually pretty rare on UA-cam threads ;)
Yes, it's extraordinary how positive the reaction has been so far. I'm so happy that this has turned into a stimulating forum for multiple viewpoints. Avanti, excelsior, continuons..
A couple of quick points. It is conceded early in this post that one's culture - by which, in part, I take it to mean (incorrectly?) one's "aesthetic" culture - informs how one does or does not make sense of - and, thus, engage with - a work of art.
I completely agree with this.
Further to this, although I do agree with the assessment given here of Rock criticism in part, I think it important to note that when a Rock critic attempts to describe the work of an artist by way of comparison to other artists (say, The Beatles and The BeeGees as given here) the purpose is to orientate the reader to the piece under review by contextualising it within the pre-existing culture of Rock and Pop. The Rock critic would never usually presume a technical knowledge of music on behalf of his readership but could reasonably expect the readership to be versed in the culture of Rock and so employs this very utilitarian technique of writing.
I am aware that Samuel was talking in regards to himself when stating that he finds little use for criticism that describes a piece of work by comparison to prior work from other artists but, for a readership that can't be assumed to have facility with (or interest in) technical language, I feel that the Rock critic's necessary reliance on demonstrating how the work under review has potential antecedents within the culture is massively useful.
(In regards to this lack of technical language: I think one will find that when a none musician - potentially inclusive of the Rock critic themselves -or, even, a none schooled musician describes something as being "atonal" what they MEAN is that they find it discordant or tuneless. Tonality, in its technically correct application, is NOT likely something that the lay person would reference. So, when such a person states they find something like "Trout Mask Replica" "atonal", they are not claiming anything about the key centres found or lacking in the work, what they are saying is that they find it a noisy, tuneless racket!😄).
One final point. It strikes me, watching this post, that there is a very apparent distinction between how say, Classical / European Art Music and Rock / Pop are appreciated by the enthusiast.
A successful piece of Rock or Pop will often engage the Head and the Heart in whatever degree of balance between the two. To listen to Samuel's explanation of how he engages with an unfamiliar work, it appears to me that his engagement is largely, if not wholly, intellectual and logical. I'm not saying that a piece of work that engages the intellect more than the heart cannot be exciting and / or valuable but, I cannot but help feel here that the ultimate end of this approach would almost be to transform music, it's composition, performance and appreciation, from an art and into a science.
Now, that would be a cultural disconnect between Classical and Rock!
I would like to know your thoughts of Keith Emerson as a composer and as an interpreter of Classical pieces arranged for a Progressive Rock trio, i.e. Bartok, Mussorgsky, Copeland, and Ginastera. Like Frank Zappa and Robert Fripp, he was one of a few sophisticated musicians to emerge from Rock music and introduced Classical music to a Rock audience who would otherwise probably never find out about them. I love to write pieces using Quartal and Quintal Harmonies and I'm influenced by Emerson's use of them. Zappa and Fripp have a love for those harmonic structures.
Thankyou for our unbelievably quick response ! the 2nd pp has my really important question since you knw compputers . The work you're doing here is important and i hope for many will open them up to musics(pop and otherwise they may have not been exposes to before . You amaze many of us here and we are all of us I'm sure exceedingly grateful for the work and wisdom and knowledge your work here affords us students! My ,my and you appreciate CaptainBeefheart and Zappa !!! There is a special place in Heaven for your type! I couldn't believe you had time to respond to my almost silly question about your hands but someday a student will come across the info when researching your life and amssing your letters and THEN ! it will mattter and maybe help others understand things in your scores too ! Do you play several instruments in addition to the piano ? Most of us have 1 if not 2 semesters of orchestration but i cant play a wind or brass or percussion instrument really - just violin &piano and awd does that help with string writing in general !? I've heard and seen some of your works here . The score was a beauty in itself and the music very memorable . My world and Im sure that of many student's has been made immeasurably more joyful .
Ircam is a great place to study and work . Is it possible with a computer to mimic the sound of exhaustion or great exertion , a Gould suddenly entranced or Sokolov's seeming cleverness as if he knows the expression he is doing or the phrasing is going to leave listeners agape . There are so many human qualities I wouls ask you that it would seem to me can never be reproduced and then again a human can do it 1000 times diffeently without programing assuch - as in Schnable's recordings dastardly physical unsurety or as in countless other's confusion . it's more than a pause here or there . It's a spiritual and sometimes PHYSICAL thing . How close would you say computers can get to these type of processes . I hope I make for myself half the adventures , life changing oppurtunities and chances to meet great minds in music etc . as you have ( did you meet or see Boulez at Ircam or in Paris ? Computers can't give us the sound we hear when a performer is being pushed to their limits.Somethings need to sound difficult . Breath and rubato ,exertion etc.. Can these be copied with a machine. You would know with your great engagement with thesethings! emotion or the sound of when a performer literally is engaged emotionally Argerich or Uchida cannot be copied by a machine. It goes beyond the measured paremeters we have come up with . Also since I have myself been having fun changing the tibre of instruments with simple tuning processes how close can we get to the sound of a singer's voice . I 'm thinking your work at Ircam might have given you some look into these types of questions ?
Very interesting..educational.
3:32 I have it from the unimpeachable authority of Mike and the Mechanics that you can listen as well as you hear.
I have a question. I've been always very impressed with several pieces of the Well-Tempered Clavier (Book I) but until recently I didn't know there was also a Book II. Apparently the compositions in Book II are more complicated than the ones in Book I, is that correct? Is Book II of similar value as Book I? Any significant differences? A short simplified answer would be sufficient for me as a first orientation. Thanks
Book 1 was written when Bach was younger. It has just as much value and reflects sometimes a more youthful approach to the material. The pieces are no less complicated. You should learn them all and do nothing else for 12 years and then go outside and smoke a cigar, or else!
But do try not to get shot whilst smoking it.
Is there a biographical reference regarding Bach that your comment about getting shot while smoking pertains to? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious.
Yes. The famous ,popular works follow a lot of traditional parameters so we get them immediately and some like Mussorgsky are so odd and different that they have more obvious appeal.I fell in love with he Eroica upon first hearing Shostakovich big viollin concerto took about 20 years and Ive had the orchestral score since I was 12 because my violin teacher gave me his!. Now Hadyn wrote 7 piano concerti but only one of them in D is instantly lovable for me . It has taken me a year to find interest in Pousseur . It s strange I kept coming back to works Im supposed to know and was bored and coudnt find anything to "hook " my focus or interes on . Finally Im ready to hear it
Suggestion: If you're doing a video on Zappa, try "Naval aviation in art?" It's short and sweet.
WhyCan'tIRemainAnonymous?! Good idea -- I'll have a listen.
Yet another possibility: "A Nun Suit Painted On Some Old Boxes" and/or "Dew on the Newts" (both from 200 Motels). He seems to be playing around with 12-tone technique (or something that sounds like it; can't tell if he's being rigorous about it), switching abruptly, yet smoothly, to more traditional forms.
@@whycantiremainanonymous8091 the entire "The Pleated Gazelle" sequence (which includes "A Nun Suit...", "Dew On The Newts We Got", "The Girl Wants To Fix Him Some Broth" & more, some of which verges on polyvocal sound poetry) is a twisted treat!
Yes i do
Did you, Andrei, compose the music at the end of the video. Where can I get a copy?
what music artist is that at 22:08 minutes into thsi video
me. that's my piece 'Strasbourg Quartet', easy to find on Spotify etc
ahhhh wow I like your music... whats the name of the song and album that its on ?? im a huge Frank Zappa Fan too. Do u have any of Frank Zappa's albums in your own collection too ??? I have all of his studio albums . I Listen to Captain Beefheart also.. I have all of his albums too
@@samuel_andreyev ahhhh yeah Strasbourg Quartet' I got it thanks do you sell your music ? its really good
I greatly enjoyed your video. I am a rock n roll drummer, starting to compose electronic music, ala Zappa style. I liked your opinions on the computer composing...if I write something using a bass clarinet, I know that anything below the lowest note ( e flat...) is useless...I make sure to use proper theory, but that's why I like composing electronic as the palette is much wider. Zappa's opinions are taken as a primer, for me...I have listened to all his influences in the hopes that I might gleen some nuggets of inspiration too, in them. Don't forget humour! it's very important...Spike Jones, Carl Stalling, Peter Shickelle...and Frank, gives new listeners accessability. I will continue to view your videos. I will never ask a "gotcha" type question...I am a self taught composer, with the help of Frank, and I am in earnest, to know more...Thank-you.
Well explained Mr. Samuel
You mentioned Harry Partch in a previous video, would you be interested in doing an analysis of one of his works? I'm not too familiar with his notation but afaik it was mostly describing specific ratios or it was tablature based on the instrument it was written for.
I've heard his music performed live once or twice and really enjoyed it. He's not someone I'm considering doing a video on immediately, although I'll certainly keep the idea in mind.
Samuel Andreyev was it Delusion of the Fury?
Love your talks
There seems to be a genre never discussed. The music of Mahalia Jackson chris Connor ,abbey Lincoln
A comment on your attitude towards synthesis and computer musical instruments: Music can either be seen as the concious time related addition of harmonics into timbre and duration or either as filtering noise in a similar fashion. Both interpretations are however already a form of musical synhtesis. So acoustic synthesis is always an inherent aspect of music, even if the "synthesizer" is limited to a (series of) real world object(s) / instruments(s). If one revolution really followed WW2 it is that of timbral freedom. For the first time in history the composer can actually build his own instruments. Granted, computer technology is only just another tool, just like the saw cuts the wood that will become violin is, but constricting oneself to the tones that have been around for so long is just as conservative as it is to constrict onselef to popularly accepted tonality. For me personally both aspects are inseparable.
You should do a Varése video, considering he is so influential on Zappa and Zappa being so influential on Beefheart. I really like your channel, and your passion for the more off beat composers. Been that way my whole life. Great job bud.
ua-cam.com/video/ctYsn8p3P90/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/x2DjkHkh1t4/v-deo.html
Samuel Andreyev OH my gosh, I spoke before I checked. Many thanks.
@@jmgmarcus808 No problem :)
Samuel Andreyev I really enjoy your channel, my wife and myself have both worked in the commercial music industry for many years. My great great uncle was the composer Aaron Copland and I got to meet him when I was 7 years old. My dad used to ask him to record the Beatles music with an orchestra and he would laugh. Cool guy. I love your enthusiasm for Captain Beefheart also, was fascinating watching you speak to Drumbo, I thought I wouldn't be able to watch for more than 5 minutes, but ended up watching the entire video. Incredible insight into those years. Your doing great work, thanks again. Cheers!!!!
In particular, the instrumental music of Frank Zappa precisely between the years of 1969 and 1971 are, in my estimation (and I know his music very, very well) his best and most important music. The instrumental passages on these albums: Uncle Meat- Hot Rats- Burnt Weeny Sandwich- Weasels Ripped My Flesh- Chunga’s Revenge- 200 Motels are extraordinary. I think this was his most intensely creative and original period.
I could talk about the precise notes, rhythms, chords, harmonies if anyone was interested.
Yes i also love lumpy gravy, the instrumentals are incredible.
I am
Do
Late reply, but I think one can't dismiss his later Synclavier and orchestra works (mainly Civilization Phase 3 and The Yellow Shark)
What is your opinion about the most interesting group in the history of music, the The Residents?
Frank Zappa the greatest did u hear of the band Magma ? Also?
Hi. Is atonal music a aesthetic response or intrinsic co development of post modern philosophy ?
No. The first atonal pieces date from 1908 or even earlier. You can trace its roots to late 19th century harmony. The two are unrelated.
Since someone asked about zappa, Id like to ask you, what do you think about johnny greenwood? specifically his scores for films and chamber orchestra work. Would you ever consider doing a video on one of his pieces? thanks for taking the time to do these Q&As
Whats the music at the end
That's my piece Strasbourg Quartet, 4th movement, which you can find on Spotify etc
I’d love to hear you talk about sun city girls
The Music Doctor is in! 👨🏼🔬
Thank you very much for your interesting videos. Can you tell me what software you use to produce them? (with the split screen interviews etc.) Many thanks,
waylonjenninz I use imovie.
Your differentiation between computers and musical instruments is interesting. One can translate that idea into our new environment when thinking about human intelligence and Ai. It is the limitations of our intelligence that makes it human. Do you think there are ways of thinking about the relationship between musical instruments and computers that could aid our tentative thinking about the relationship between humans and AI?
of course TMR is polytonal, but my question is... did you find some atonal parts on the record?
Great video. thanks
Google say jt productions
"Zappa Beefheart"
or " She dances in the Wind " or
"Modern Composers"
(Threnody for FZ)
I write for both of them
Ligeti Etudes, Yes! And a Zappa orchestral piece. Please.
The answer to whether a computer is a musical instrument is simple and direct. At the moment that a computer is used AS a musical instrument, it is a musical instrument. It becomes a musical instrument in the hands of a musician. A computer is certainly an instrument. And a computer can be musical.
Is the computer unbounded or does it have boundaries? The computer can be many things, but there are limitations. Same with a sheet of brass! The metal becomes a musical instrument at the moment it is formed into a flute or trombone. The sheet of brass can be viewed as unbounded in that it can become a doorknob or many other things. It becomes a bounded object when it is formed. The difference is that it is perceived by us people as more fixed in shape. Although it could be melted down and reformed into something else.
So what is the difference between a sheet of brass becoming a musical instrument, and a computer becoming a musical instrument? Time. The computer can change what it is very quickly. That is the only difference. The computer can be programmed rapidly, and the sheet of brass programming takes a while.
How about limitations? When a computer is used as a musical instrument, it has limitations.
As far as playing in a technically satisfying manner, that depends on the implementation and facility of how the computer is used. And that situation has been improving. So it becomes a question of time and development for the realization of a computer as musical instrument in the minds of people.
Why are you wearing a medical doctor's coat?
I'm not sure.
it's The Science Of Art Show
It's a lab coat. He's in the lab doing labby things.
Well just don't pull a Milton Babbitt on us and use your medicalwear to go all scientistic and claim that the man on the street can't comprehend this music because the man on the street can't comprehend quantum mechanics ;)
Better Living Through Chemistry and all ...
Lol, reminds me of Ben Levin's "fake doctor levin" videos
Fuckin love this guy
Absolutely fascinating video. I would love to hear your thoughts (one day when you have time) on the turntable as a musical instrument (or not). The history of "turntablism" is very interesting and I wonder if it is something you have thought about/studied in any way. Your thoughts on computer music regarding limitations/lack of are extremely interesting to me and also made me start wondering what you would think about music created by turntables (limitations previously in existence in the artform have been "lifted" recently by Digital Vinyl Simulation and there is an interesting debate ongoing as many fans/turntablists believe "the old way" will always be "better" and I, amongst others, associate that to a large extent with the various limitations being removed). If it is something that interests you two (quite different) examples of "turntablism" are Kid Koala (I recommend his album "Carpal Tunnel Syndrome" first) and The X- Ecutioners. DJ Rob Swift is a professor at The New School in New York and his thoughts on the subject are extremely interesting.
TheStuF Thank you for your kind remarks -- I will investigate the artists you mentioned. I don't have much knowledge of turntablism..
TheStuF: Hey bro, what's your take on Christian Marclay?
Why is he dressed like a medical doctor??
Computer as a musical instrument: I think if it can be used to make music, it is literally a musical instrument. That said, computer technology also makes possible what I call "paint-by-numbers music." You can cut and paste loops, beats, and samples from other peoples' skill and creativity to assemble a piece of music. "What's wrong with that?" people ask. Well, nothing, if you're just a hobbyist, enjoying instant gratification from a pleasant pastime. But I would not call that being a musician, or a producer.
I agree with Mr Andreyev, that the lack of limitations is the limitation of the computer as a musical instrument, in that it contributes to the decline of music education and the decline in people learning to play an actual musical instrument.
I love my laptop with it's DAW and a literal "orchestra at my fingertips," and I love being able to produce music in my living room that a couple of decades ago could only have been done in a professional recording studio. But what enables my ability to do that is years of practice and performance and a thorough enough understanding of music to be able to score and chart it for other musicians. I don't need or want loops, beats, or samples. Everything I write and record on my computer can also be performed live by musicians, even without electricity, if need be.
I'm not saying this to boast, I'm saying it because I've taught music for over 30 years and I would hate to see real musical skill and knowledge become a thing of the past, replaced by a copy and paste, paint-by-numbers, instant gratification hobby. Anyone who doubts this possibility needs only to listen to the shallow, formulaic music that dominates the popular airwaves and cyber stream.
The joy of assembling loops, beats, and samples into a coherent piece of music is nothing compared to the joy of creating music from your own imagination and your own musicianship. That's all. I'm just advocating music education and putting the work in to be able to use it.
Beefheart compared to Zappa- now that would be some 10 minutes. Also- the Beatles- great artists or a passing fancy?
You're kidding me. Now I've seen you with that doctor's uniform I have no doubt you're Wilson from Dr. House.
Is not the computer merely a tool? A tool for the imagination? Most instruments could be seen as a tool for expressing the musical ideas that you want to express. If, in your terms, and Berio's terms, the synthesiser is not an instrument (yet people make music on it) because it has no limitations (I think it does: it always sounds like a synthesiser and not a 'natural' organic - metal, wooden instrument that reflect their material in the noises they make (isn't that also true of the synthesiser?!) then surely it is a tool that 'without limitations' can make any sound you choose it to make and which you could use for music. Surely, if something is used for music then it is a musical instrument.
After hearing your response to the question concerned with electronic music, I would be very curious to know your opinion on the experimental hip-hop trio Death Grips, if you have one. They have been very well regarded in the past few years for their electronic experimentation and forward thinking sound
Hello, I'm afraid I don't know about Death Grips. Always interesting in hearing new things. If you have any specific listening suggestions, feel free to send me an email (address on my website -- www.samuelandreyev.com)
computers cant improvise the way people can, they can have a randomness aspect but i feel that is very different than the human ability to improvise music
would love to see an analysis of something by joanna newsom, particularly the song "emily"
I thought of responding to this in detail, but Samuel really should do it, because Van Dyke Parks did the orchestrations on that album, Ys, and he's a fan of Samuel's album The Tubular West ...
Hint, hint, Samuel ;)
At 10:18, " the absence of audible rhythmic patterns" Hilarious!
Getting away from dance rhythms and moving towards speech patterns? You mean like opera?
Like prose? Is prose even speech? it doesn't necessarily have speech patterns.
On Zappa, its a pity he needed the validation of composing 'classical' music.
Even more unfortunate he was captivated by Webern and Boulez. What he got from Stravinski was enough,
and he could have positioned himself directly following the Americana themes of Ives and Copeland.
Are his hands as big as Rachmaninoff's or is it just the placement of the camera ?
No, I have large hands.
You know we say this song sounds like that song. Then there's "It Can't Happen Here" which sounds like nothing else. It's a bit .. but only a bit .. like a barbers shop quartet. It's partly spoken rather than sung.
Its silly that people still consider zappa or beefheart popular music
Marco Di Caprio Zappa Billboard charts:
10 Apostrophe(')
23 Ship Arriving Too Late To Save A Drowning Witch
27 Joe's Garage Act I
32 Over-Night Sensation
53 Joe's Garage Acts II & III
He had a much more substantial following abroad also. Yes, he played popular music, among other things, genius…
Those two single dots in the title bother me so much
On Zappa's orchestral writing. I find his orchestration skills to be lacking, though appreciate his efforts.
F Stöver Yes, Zappa's response to that was that those pieces were thought of in terms of the recording studio, where you can achieve a balanced result through artful mixing. I agree though that the orchestration is not the strongest aspect of those pieces.
Right. As with 200 Motels, Yellow Shark, etc..they're intriguing scores, but lack lustre; there's little that can be done in the studio to rectify things after the fact.
F Stöver Yes. His 60’s albums were superb though, but there he only utilised orchestral music as apart of the overall Dadaist collage,
I have always been a Captain Beefheart fan but when I listen to his music now I am confronted with its obvious contrivance. Obviously the music has to stand on its own without the associations of the composer's personality and the support of the music critics.
Many thanks for doing these analyses - Beefheart and Stockhausen treated equally. It's so good to see your serious approach being aired. The BBC used to do it but rarely now.
I hadn't realised that Velvet's track was a response to boredom .. that sparks off comparisons to German band Faust /Tony Konrad - maybe Eno as well, and in literature David Foster Wallace's Pale King - but that's a place that can be hard to get out of..
Did you ever do a complete midi version of Frownland? Be interesting to hear! Or a link to your midi file?
I though the Pale King was absolutely brilliant, even in its unfinished state. I'm not going to share my transcription of Frownland beyond what is in the video as the music doesn't belong to me, and also my version doesn't claim to be authoritative: it's an approximation, which is due to the inherent difficulty of wrestling such crazy music onto paper.
Aha .. I kind of wondered if someone like you might be a DFW fan!
Yes Pale King was brilliant, if not ideal for DFW novices - not sure if it was him or his editor who referred to it as "like wrestling balsa wood sheets in a gale..." So sad we don't have him around any more.
I quite understand about Frownland - I enjoyed the contradictory regularity of the midified version.
And many thanks for taking the time to reply.
Best UA-cam channel bar none
John French's biography goes some way into organising and explaining the rhythmical complexities of Trout Mask (see the notes at the end), at least to this layman.
Hi, and sorry if i'm slightly off topic (and for my poor english). I'd like to know what you think of another great 60s album, Red Crayola's Parable of Arable Land. I realize that maybe it does not have the same complexity as Trout Mask Replica - for politonality - but I think it's great for another set of reasons. What do you think about it? Thank you
Never heard of it!
Well I have to recuse myself (there's a lot of that going around in America these days) from commenting on the record because it's completely outside my aesthetic wheelhouse, but apparently the Red Krayola (the spelling changed a little later) is considered a pioneering experimental 60s psychedelic band that continues to this day.
I listened to the record and it's in the same general vein as the Nihilist Spasm Band. Basically a group of performers who attempt to make a virtue out of not being able to play their instruments. And I don't mean being marginally competent on them like punk rock -- I mean literally not knowing how to play their instruments. The music is a collection of events with vocals interspersed with instrumental "free form freakouts." There's some crude processing involved (Parable of Arable Land was recorded in 1968), tape loops, filtering, but they do everything they can to remove all semblance of musical structure, including drones and steady rhythm.
The band has its fervent devotees and many people on the UA-cam thread call the record a masterpiece of psychedelia.
Beyond this hopefully objective description, I can say little ...
Snardbafulator Careful, bro -- my uncle Greg Curnoe founded the Nihilist Spasm Band. But they had the capital virtue of a magnificent sense of humour. I was unable to listen to more than 3 minutes of Red Krayola.
Oh dude, I agree with you. I listened to a whole Nihilist Spasm Band record (once) with a big smile on my face ;) Humor always covers a cornucopia of sins ;) I just wanted to be respectful of the commenter and attempted to scrub all editorializing from my description. But I got caught in the reviewer's trap of needing to throw out a reference, especially for a "music event" so inherently difficult to describe ...
I think I lasted to about the 11 minute mark :(
I attended many NSB concerts throughout my youth. The band was something of a running joke within our family, but also a source of great pride.
Sysyphus by Pink Floyd
one hearing
While, I agree some prior knowledge helps with understanding music (basics of rhythm, harmony, structure), isn't deconstructing a piece doing violence to the music? Shouldn't music express that which is inexpressible otherwise? At the end, you understand the parts, how they function, but you end up missing the forest for the trees. That's why I think music shouldn't require too much extra-musical knowledge. All that music requires is concentrated listening. Music, for me, has to be moving, it must touch your emotions on a deep level and possibly even your perceptions. Music operates outside of verbal understanding or communication.
I guess deconstructing a piece is important for those studying composition and even then, you run the risk of imitating or being a reactionary, instead of listening to your inner voice.
In my experience, the reactionaries are often those with the poorest grasp of history.
I can't speak of factions per se, only individuals.. the ones who believe the idea that you can return to some lost utopia of past music, and thereby circumnavigate the thorny problems that composers working in 2017 must face.
Was past music a utopia, really? Maybe there's more to be discovered from the past. Didn't Schoenberg say something like there are plenty of great pieces to be written in C major?
I don't know too many composers of real achievement who would profess to despise history. The training is too long and too rigorous for that. There are artists, however, who are reflexively and unthinkingly hostile to genuine innovation after romanticism or thereabouts, and end up producing only pastiches. Great music of the past needs to be absorbed and transfigured, not slavishly imitated.
That's my point -- it wasn't a utopia, it was always dynamically evolving, and will continue to evolve. Innovations are always accompanied by loss and/or compromise. The harmonic style of the classical period entailed a lessening of the contrapuntal variety of renaissance music. And so on.
you got the Peterson bump ;)
Lab coat?
It's wrong to like rock music songs only because it shows some estructures similar to those of the avantgarde. That shows the infinite arrogance of the average" avantgarde composer " who just TOLERATES this music.
Rock music has its historic relevance for the obvious reasons .
You look like Stephen King.
SCIENCE!!
Wabern by pier Boulez
Meat puppets Up on the Sun
Beefheart is very good and Zappa is good but it does absolutely nothing for me. Too pretentious?
'zo kay, you are what you is.
@@johnatwell2753 I should be clear that I think Beefheart is one of the very best and I love it. Zappa just goes right out the other side of my head. It doesn't stick to me.
This isn't a brilliant question.... why are you wearing a lab coat?
Anyone else here from Jordan Peterson?
Ruh-roh ... I never heard of Jordan Peterson so punched him into UA-cam. The guy sounds like an academic shilling for the alt right :( And even worse, trying to tweeze Biblical concepts into modern psychology.
Hey ... Frank Zappa had libertarian tendencies but at core he was a Democrat who never met an intellectual wingnut he couldn't sneer at.
Oh, and he was, of course, massively pro-choice ;)
Alright, I fired up the 'pedia on Peterson and may have snarked prematurely. Okay, so he doesn't like synthetic gender pronouns, fair enough. But to link this to "Marxism" is also kind of inexcusable for an academic who has made a career out of analyzing the deep structure of political rhetoric.
The guy himself might not be intolerant, but he seems like a useful idiot for the intolerant. Academics should never be in business of being useful idiots.
"academic shilling for the alt right :( " If you can infer white nationalism from Peterson then I presume you are just a Derrida fanboy trying to slander Peterson.
No, definitely not a Derrida fanboy. I just punched Jordan Peterson into UA-cam and the videos that came up in the sidebar left that impression.
I fully recognize I could've jumped the gun ...