@Tiramis31 No, but because I both watched and liked/enjoyed the previous Hoang game on the Main channel, and btw this thumbnail looks awesome! But I was also very curious how well Vipy could execute the strategy after analyzing it in the last video.
“A man who wishes to make a profession of goodness in everything must necessarily come to grief among so many who are not good.” - Machiavelli's The Prince
Love the fact that some pros are getting tired of Hoang (i.e you can notice Hera sometimes hating the fact he's playing Hoang) and Viper is enjoying so much this strategy, he's even willing to learn it 11
@@mbvglider I can't desagree but as the last comment said, now you can see Hera gets upset when he's matched with Hoang and Viper looks like he's enjoying. Anyway I love the fact that Viper is heading to the Hoang side
think about it. would you rather watch hera vs hoang 10 times or hera vs viper 10 times? as a long time aoe2 viewer who watched many hoang games, id rather watch one of t90s 300 elo games tbh. at least we would get to see some different units
honestly this isnt the worst strategy for a tournament if they dont expect it. you can beat hoang because you are prepared for hoang. but quaterfinals hidden cup and you suddenly do this. i honestly think there is a chance to win games with it
I'm actually surprised that we haven't really seen that before. Douche is way less viable and we have seen that in 1v1 tournaments multiple times. Inca vill rush was adopted by almost everyone. No one has gone full Hoang.
Tbf people always realise hoang rush potential when the opponent is Celts. Viper expected and predicted celt pick by Mr. Yo in some tournament final. He even said he didn't know which civ Mr.yo will go but he wanted him to go Celts in that one match where he could have Mongols (they drafted the civs). And frankly viper rarely loses to hoang even after getting lamed. I think viper hera are decent against it, and if they find it before it arrives castle in the base almost halts the hoang rush and it's way too all in, so it's not that simple as we see it. I understand though if someone doesn't expect hoang rush then disaster. Even knowing it's hoang rush it's hard but these guys(hera viper) are built different
@@clorkmagnus But Hoang isn't very good. So there clearly is potential. And Celts are a good civ so you don't have to go for it if you don't think you need to.
Also the Celts don’t really suffer the inefficiency of not researching bit axe because of their wood chopping bonus. Almost 650 food from the boar, 2 sheep, and foregoing bit axe
@@ottomann4846 The lame helps, but what's strong is that the feudal comp forces the opponent into range if they want to deal with man-at-arms/archer, and if you're prepared to sacrifice your long-term economy it lets you do minimal army investment to force the response and buy your way up to fast-castle into knights + siege on their face when they've gone archer or heavy feudal investment. If it fails you die, but it seems pretty strong.
A lot of the strength of this build came from the lamed boar powering out fast units to pressure into fast castle. The units need to be answered, either with units of their own (which delays their up time, as you say viper laughing at his opponent making skirms while he was going up to castle). If you don't answer the units you lose villager time because you're being harassed by the units. There is a bit of a 50/50 going on, where, after the man at arms -> archers harass, do you pull back and boom up, or do you continue to push?
I low-key kind of love this. Skipping the feudal wars entirely: no archers, no skirms, no delaying Castle over some light cav, not even Fletching, just skip right to those no-research needed meaty units like knights, siege, and monks.
Celt longswords with extra movespeed + celt scorps with extra attackspeed to get rid of the most common longswords counter (archers) sound very playable Edit: maybe add one or two knights to clear mangos as that would be the best option vs longsword scorp
@@nothanks7475 Hoang long distance hunts the deers if he can’t have 3 boars. Wood is the most important rss for his strat actually. His youtube channel is great btw
What thing is he wearing? I got major wrist issues myself and currently got some bracers that are so-so. Tried a few different ones but could always get something better :D
@ 1:29 "... I forget that I'm supposed to lame ..." Ahhh, so you DO retain your humanity, mate ! 😇 I am NO fan of laming.... 👺 Why? The clue is in the name. It's lame. @ 8:38 The secret of AoE2 success? "... Take good fights instead of bad fights ..." 😁 M 🦘🏏😎
@@vkloz4162 Vietnam didn't defeat the USA. The USA was never there to conquer Vietnam. We were there to protect the Vietnamese from Soviet and Chinese influence and conquest. We effectively defeated the North Vietnamese, bringing them to a treaty. When we withdrew, the South Vietnamese and North Vietnamese (with their Chinese and Soviet backers) broke agreements which resumed the war. The South's military folded and the North conquered them, slaughtering hundreds of thousands of noncombatants in the process and aftermath. The USA ceased intervening because of political corruption and propaganda at home and a general disgust with the incompetent leadership of South Vietnam. In the tradeoff, China agreed to gradually open it's markets to more capitalistic production and trading, and China's increasing good relations with the West from the 70s on helped thwart long term Soviet plans. In the end, the communist block fell. It's just too bad that so many innocent Vietnamese had to suffer to get to this point. Vietnam is still an oppressive place to live, but it is better off than it was in the 1970s and 1980s.
I've noticed the sheep alays spawn by or in the line of sight of the scout. That was something you wanted before Viper, and now it's finally here. Without us noticing? Or did you notice it just without me seeing it?
It cracks me up these people that say Hoang isn't a good player or it's a bad strategy. Hoang has 3 accounts ranked right around 30 in the world. I'd say that's pretty good. Also, Hoang doesn't lame much anymore unless he is playing a much better player.
From my SC Broodwar back ground pov, laming should be the most important part of the early game. I mean when you dont have much thing to do in the early game, what should you do? go and mess with enemy's early game.
I’ve been wondering when you would embrace this style of play. I think it’ll change things as drastically as when we stopped doing 1scout 1spearman 2 skirm openings and moved more to the m@a into archers and the hun wars. If you perfect this you’ll change the game. You are clearly more skilled than Hoang and will be able to do the strategy even better, even if only because you can also play standard.
Okaaay welcome to AOE 101. Today we're gonna give you a brief overview of your basic opening concepts. 1. Trush 2. Drush 3. Archers 4. Scouts 5. Full feudal 6. Early castle 7. Hoang And your basic late game setups. 1. Pallies 2. Arbs 3. Uniques 4. Siege monk 5. Hoang.
Improved early incomes on both fundamental resources (Wood,Food) intrinsically has the potential of breaking the game. Every strategy supposed to accelerate a late game strategy by improved early incomes intrinsically has the potential of being reverted into a rush strategy.
Would Hoang be a top 50 player in the world if he played straight up with random civ? Top 100? I wonder what his ELO would be. 2000ish? It's amazing he can beat the top 10, Viper, Hera, Daut ect at any time with this one civ and strat.
He's stronger than people think for sure, decent scout micro when laming, good army micro. His weak economy is often just a product of his strategy, constant vill production isnt as important if you need those res for your all-in play etc
The problem with it is that it's 100% map rng. Your boar/elephant/etc can spawn half way to oppo base and they can have both of theirs behind the base. You are just fucked if the meta was laming then.
I like watching Viper but I understand so little about the competitive meta that I have no clue if Viper thinks this is genuinely decent alternative playstyle to surprise your opponent or if he's mocking it the entire time despite scoring a win.
This strategy has no endgame, one mistake or unlucky moment and youre dead If it is perfectly executed every time, its possibly the most opressive thing in the game, but this will never be meta
he's mocking it... you can especially see it when he doesn't even do fletching for his archers to go up faster. Still would like to see him try it against hera/liereyy/yo tier players because viper is REALLY good at taking decisions in weird game situations like the hoang rush and he might just make it work.
@@secmari8645 Skipping fletching doesn't mean he was mocking it, Kasva was likely to go skirms because of the danger of mass archers, and faster Castle age with siege workshop and knights would beat anything in feudal. Viper is impressed by this build because for years no one has discovered or refined this strat until Hoang. It goes against core standard meta tips such as getting eco upgrades (double bit-axe is huge and only skipped until you click to castle age in fast castle builds), making more than 3 milita, walling and going FC because skipping feudal pressure is dangerous in open maps. No would think it was possible to afford 5 M@A, walls, archers, blacksmith, stable, siege workshop and monastery pressure in castle age in a reasonable time. Your economy would probably be too frail to do all of that effectively, or so people assumed until Hoang did it. (Of course Hoang didn't start off managing to do all that, but he made his strategy better in the last year or so)
@@lamegamer4607 It's basically using the resources for the upgrades to do a timing attack, while the opponent who presumably did the upgrades hasn't gotten value out of them yet. If the game goes long enough for the opponent to catch up, you lose. At that point they get resources faster, their troops are stronger and if you want to get the techs, you now have to put in resources when the enemy is already coming back into the game.
Did you watch this video because you saw the Short video The Hoang Side ?
@Tiramis31 No, but because I both watched and liked/enjoyed the previous Hoang game on the Main channel, and btw this thumbnail looks awesome!
But I was also very curious how well Vipy could execute the strategy after analyzing it in the last video.
no cause shorts suck
Nope, because Im subscribed to this channel
how did you make a comment 4 days ago on a 2 hour ago released video
Yes!
"Sometimes in order to defeat monsters you must be willing to become one"
good hoang game
“A man who wishes to make a profession of goodness in everything must necessarily come to grief among so many who are not good.” - Machiavelli's The Prince
I love how the Hoang related thumbnails show TheViper as Anakin, slowly falling to the dark side :D
Hoang: Wolololooo
TheViper: Look at me. I'm Hoang now.
"Everyone has a plan until they get Hoanged in the mouth"
-Mike Tyson
Everybody *hath* a plan ...
Mike Tython
Walled in scout, lamed sheep and rhino, misspelled "genius", and no "gg" - this is full disrespecc, 110% XD
If the devs can add this strategy to the AI, it'll be a new nightmare difficulty for single player mode.
Love the fact that some pros are getting tired of Hoang (i.e you can notice Hera sometimes hating the fact he's playing Hoang) and Viper is enjoying so much this strategy, he's even willing to learn it 11
Thats why hera lost in Redbull
So Viper goes as Hoang against Hera and Mr.Yo?
Hera's tried the Hoang rush in a handful of games. He's even Hoang'ed Hoang.
@@mbvglider I can't desagree but as the last comment said, now you can see Hera gets upset when he's matched with Hoang and Viper looks like he's enjoying. Anyway I love the fact that Viper is heading to the Hoang side
think about it. would you rather watch hera vs hoang 10 times or hera vs viper 10 times? as a long time aoe2 viewer who watched many hoang games, id rather watch one of t90s 300 elo games tbh. at least we would get to see some different units
honestly this isnt the worst strategy for a tournament if they dont expect it. you can beat hoang because you are prepared for hoang. but quaterfinals hidden cup and you suddenly do this. i honestly think there is a chance to win games with it
I'm actually surprised that we haven't really seen that before. Douche is way less viable and we have seen that in 1v1 tournaments multiple times. Inca vill rush was adopted by almost everyone.
No one has gone full Hoang.
Tbf people always realise hoang rush potential when the opponent is Celts. Viper expected and predicted celt pick by Mr. Yo in some tournament final. He even said he didn't know which civ Mr.yo will go but he wanted him to go Celts in that one match where he could have Mongols (they drafted the civs). And frankly viper rarely loses to hoang even after getting lamed. I think viper hera are decent against it, and if they find it before it arrives castle in the base almost halts the hoang rush and it's way too all in, so it's not that simple as we see it. I understand though if someone doesn't expect hoang rush then disaster. Even knowing it's hoang rush it's hard but these guys(hera viper) are built different
It has been done already
@@anaccountmusthaveaname9110 i am pretty sure it's the civ and the laming that make it's good.
@@clorkmagnus But Hoang isn't very good. So there clearly is potential. And Celts are a good civ so you don't have to go for it if you don't think you need to.
Every time a pro player tries a Hoang build: "This is so powerful; Hoang is a genius."
I think most of it is just laming is so powerful. Laming + playing standard is also a very powerful strategy.
Also the Celts don’t really suffer the inefficiency of not researching bit axe because of their wood chopping bonus.
Almost 650 food from the boar, 2 sheep, and foregoing bit axe
@@jefffinkbonner9551 sure but notice how often does Hoang win when the lame doesn't work, hmmm
@@ottomann4846 The lame helps, but what's strong is that the feudal comp forces the opponent into range if they want to deal with man-at-arms/archer, and if you're prepared to sacrifice your long-term economy it lets you do minimal army investment to force the response and buy your way up to fast-castle into knights + siege on their face when they've gone archer or heavy feudal investment. If it fails you die, but it seems pretty strong.
A lot of the strength of this build came from the lamed boar powering out fast units to pressure into fast castle. The units need to be answered, either with units of their own (which delays their up time, as you say viper laughing at his opponent making skirms while he was going up to castle). If you don't answer the units you lose villager time because you're being harassed by the units.
There is a bit of a 50/50 going on, where, after the man at arms -> archers harass, do you pull back and boom up, or do you continue to push?
i wan to see vpier using celt and hoang strategy vs against HoANG
When you are getting hoanged, then hoang Hoang.
Hera already did
@@respicefinem444 no , he fast castle, he didnt even make archer mma
@@陳柏安-q5k FC is more the classic Hoang build, though. MAA + Archer is more of a modern Hoang build. They're both Hoang rushes.
@@mbvglider drush FC was the hoang build when celts still had infantry movespeed in dark age and arabia wasn't as open yet
I guess you can say it takes Hoang to know Hoang ;)
The double lame does help you get up really fast though, if it fails your gonna be slower
And thats why haong tried to lame always🤣
YES, very good RNG for this speedrun
@@kwongshuchung he either greedily lame or greedily push deers, there is no inbetween 11
"Don't hate the player. Hate Hoang" 11
You really seem to be getting the Hoang of this!
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the Hoang
"no real hoang" - m1chiel2 7:25
So true, there was not nearly enough TC idle time for a real hoang
I've always wondered if Hoang strategy would be better if tried by top 5 players. Turns out it does
Any strategy would be better if used by a top 5 player.
Gone to the darkside, young Viper has...
Viper getting converted to Hoang's monk in real life 11
More Hoang style games!
I low-key kind of love this. Skipping the feudal wars entirely: no archers, no skirms, no delaying Castle over some light cav, not even Fletching, just skip right to those no-research needed meaty units like knights, siege, and monks.
Next Wololo is going to be wild....
Also longswords buff is going to lead to more cracked strats
There is no next wololo
@@Lactionnobleetidéale
Celt longswords with extra movespeed + celt scorps with extra attackspeed to get rid of the most common longswords counter (archers) sound very playable
Edit: maybe add one or two knights to clear mangos as that would be the best option vs longsword scorp
Viper and Kasva’s love story better than twilight
Now what is the ultimate "counter Hoang" when this becomes ridiculously popular. Viper you're letting the secret out.
Guess it's Mongols time.
Step 1: Be Hera
Step 2: ????
Step 3: Profit.
I thought we established its Sicilians?
Lmao that no GG disrespect
"This is the way"
I think viper is an Mandalorian
You had time to push 2 deers instead of milling them, saving you 1-2 farms for more knights
His scout was busy and sometimes it's worth it if you're planning on heavy micro imo.
@@nothanks7475 Hoang long distance hunts the deers if he can’t have 3 boars. Wood is the most important rss for his strat actually. His youtube channel is great btw
Hoang: You merely adopted the Hoang, I was born in it
At last, it happens, he turned to the HOANG side
Viper is basically possessed by Hoang
I love this ultra aggressive Hoang approach. More!
Genius misspelled on thumbnail :(
You didn't type gg.....
Hoang has finetuned the feudal screen that still allows him an FC rush.
hoang is Mikhail tal chess equivalent for AOE
This worked mainly cause you were able to lame a rino and 2 sheep. That makes a HUGE difference.
Yes definitely
No siege. NOT a real Hoang game
'don't hate the player, hate the Hoang' by Biper 2021
Hey Viper ! I really enjoyed watching you playing like Hoang! You are the best! Please do it again!
No gg is part of Hoang?
Stragety.
The Viper: 7
Hoang: 10
is that a mix of tragedy and strategy?
What thing is he wearing? I got major wrist issues myself and currently got some bracers that are so-so. Tried a few different ones but could always get something better :D
I don't know if it is a legitimate strategy, but I love it. I need more viper hoanging
El Biry perfected the hoang strategy, managing to go aggressive and without leaving the macro aside.
@ 1:29 "... I forget that I'm supposed to lame ..." Ahhh, so you DO retain your humanity, mate ! 😇 I am NO fan of laming.... 👺 Why? The clue is in the name. It's lame.
@ 8:38 The secret of AoE2 success? "... Take good fights instead of bad fights ..." 😁
M 🦘🏏😎
I dont know there are Vietnamese on AOE 2 mostly we are on AOE 1 vs chinese all the time
but no gg..
the hoang style lets you get out knights monk and mongo with no economy lol
that's some fine aoe2 speedrun
Haha I'd like to see you use that on someone that doesn't give up so fast.
They gave up because they realised they were screwed. All they had were like 6 skirms and prob nowhere near going up. Can't beat hoang with that
hoang - absolute legend!
The new "GL.Hoang Jr." 11
Just remember 2 Hoangs doesn’t make a right.
Being able to Hoang rush means that if you random civ into Celts your opponent doesn't know what to expect.
I can’t wait for more HOANGING
"There is nothing here that is not Hoang" - Viper
Hoang is a Norwegian?! - Me
he is vietnamese the small country was beat mongolia, chinese, france, usa, japan...
@@vkloz4162 Vietnam didn't defeat the USA. The USA was never there to conquer Vietnam. We were there to protect the Vietnamese from Soviet and Chinese influence and conquest. We effectively defeated the North Vietnamese, bringing them to a treaty. When we withdrew, the South Vietnamese and North Vietnamese (with their Chinese and Soviet backers) broke agreements which resumed the war. The South's military folded and the North conquered them, slaughtering hundreds of thousands of noncombatants in the process and aftermath. The USA ceased intervening because of political corruption and propaganda at home and a general disgust with the incompetent leadership of South Vietnam. In the tradeoff, China agreed to gradually open it's markets to more capitalistic production and trading, and China's increasing good relations with the West from the 70s on helped thwart long term Soviet plans. In the end, the communist block fell. It's just too bad that so many innocent Vietnamese had to suffer to get to this point. Vietnam is still an oppressive place to live, but it is better off than it was in the 1970s and 1980s.
@@merlball8520 but you didn’t achieve the goal. Just like Afghanistan
It's "genius"! Back to school with you.
Appropriate lighting for dabbling with the dark side.
I've noticed the sheep alays spawn by or in the line of sight of the scout. That was something you wanted before Viper, and now it's finally here. Without us noticing? Or did you notice it just without me seeing it?
Sorry, noticed in some games that this is not true. They spawn in line if sight, but not as collected always.
It cracks me up these people that say Hoang isn't a good player or it's a bad strategy. Hoang has 3 accounts ranked right around 30 in the world. I'd say that's pretty good. Also, Hoang doesn't lame much anymore unless he is playing a much better player.
From my SC Broodwar back ground pov, laming should be the most important part of the early game.
I mean when you dont have much thing to do in the early game, what should you do? go and mess with enemy's early game.
We need a tourney called the hoang. Only civ allowed Celts. Only strategy allowed is hoang rush.
Huang, genius!
Hoanging Hoang next?
Hoang problem require Hoang solution.
~NotHoang~
I’ve been wondering when you would embrace this style of play. I think it’ll change things as drastically as when we stopped doing 1scout 1spearman 2 skirm openings and moved more to the m@a into archers and the hun wars.
If you perfect this you’ll change the game. You are clearly more skilled than Hoang and will be able to do the strategy even better, even if only because you can also play standard.
''the hoang rush''
Juan is a Genius
Dude one guy called this in one of the earler hoang videos, hes said just like with Koreans Viper will start to like this strategy.
Channeling your inner Hoang.
It takes Hoang to know Hoang.
Es una estrategia que ha sido mejorada durante años y ahora se aprovechan del conocimiento y experiencia de Hoang... such a genius!!
Okaaay welcome to AOE 101. Today we're gonna give you a brief overview of your basic opening concepts.
1. Trush
2. Drush
3. Archers
4. Scouts
5. Full feudal
6. Early castle
7. Hoang
And your basic late game setups.
1. Pallies
2. Arbs
3. Uniques
4. Siege monk
5. Hoang.
At 3:00 you've already stolen 2 sheep and a boar with a 'meme strat'... At this point it looks less meme, and more payoff
Did upgrades, not a hoang game
Hera better watch out. If Viper picks Celts game 1 and wins by doing this I guarantee Hera will get tilted so HARD!!! ROFL
Now I really want to know what happened in "last game".
Improved early incomes on both fundamental resources (Wood,Food) intrinsically has the potential of breaking the game.
Every strategy supposed to accelerate a late game strategy by improved early incomes intrinsically has the potential of being reverted into a rush strategy.
Don’t remember hoang doing archers, but then again my memory ain’t so good…
Celts also has terrible archers. I don't think it works very effectively.
Everyone goes Celts !
You make hoang proud with you 11
Would Hoang be a top 50 player in the world if he played straight up with random civ? Top 100? I wonder what his ELO would be. 2000ish? It's amazing he can beat the top 10, Viper, Hera, Daut ect at any time with this one civ and strat.
He's stronger than people think for sure, decent scout micro when laming, good army micro. His weak economy is often just a product of his strategy, constant vill production isnt as important if you need those res for your all-in play etc
Hoang send the milician one by one, born and send
You perfected ‘The Hoang’ with no idle tc man. Buuut 2 sheepy and 1 boar lame against our beloved Turkish? Duuuude, pls stop :D
These thumbnails are golden lmao
Yung Hoang
It is happening!
Even the color!
is Hoang vietnamese?
Hoang is the way
I wish laming was a core part of meta. We would see more diverse Openings and way less walling and greed.
The problem with it is that it's 100% map rng. Your boar/elephant/etc can spawn half way to oppo base and they can have both of theirs behind the base. You are just fucked if the meta was laming then.
@@ruukinen not necessarily. If you scout your forward resources before doing anything then they will be safe most of the time.
7/10 now getting coached by Hoang
Best intro to a video!! 11
Feel the power of the dark side.
Poor Kasva He didn’t expect this happen @@
*Siege workshop right on top of the enemy's farms*
I like watching Viper but I understand so little about the competitive meta that I have no clue if Viper thinks this is genuinely decent alternative playstyle to surprise your opponent or if he's mocking it the entire time despite scoring a win.
This strategy has no endgame, one mistake or unlucky moment and youre dead
If it is perfectly executed every time, its possibly the most opressive thing in the game, but this will never be meta
he's mocking it... you can especially see it when he doesn't even do fletching for his archers to go up faster. Still would like to see him try it against hera/liereyy/yo tier players because viper is REALLY good at taking decisions in weird game situations like the hoang rush and he might just make it work.
@@secmari8645 Skipping fletching doesn't mean he was mocking it, Kasva was likely to go skirms because of the danger of mass archers, and faster Castle age with siege workshop and knights would beat anything in feudal. Viper is impressed by this build because for years no one has discovered or refined this strat until Hoang. It goes against core standard meta tips such as getting eco upgrades (double bit-axe is huge and only skipped until you click to castle age in fast castle builds), making more than 3 milita, walling and going FC because skipping feudal pressure is dangerous in open maps. No would think it was possible to afford 5 M@A, walls, archers, blacksmith, stable, siege workshop and monastery pressure in castle age in a reasonable time. Your economy would probably be too frail to do all of that effectively, or so people assumed until Hoang did it. (Of course Hoang didn't start off managing to do all that, but he made his strategy better in the last year or so)
@@lamegamer4607 It's basically using the resources for the upgrades to do a timing attack, while the opponent who presumably did the upgrades hasn't gotten value out of them yet. If the game goes long enough for the opponent to catch up, you lose. At that point they get resources faster, their troops are stronger and if you want to get the techs, you now have to put in resources when the enemy is already coming back into the game.
не ну Хуан реально гений)
This is going to break the game
You need to do this until you get to #1 on the ladder