Walk-Ins & Small Orders: Are They Worth Your Time? | Machine Shop Talk Ep. 55
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Dealing with walk-in customers and small orders can be a huge challenge for busy shops. One solution many turn to is instituting a minimum charge - but how do you calculate it, and more importantly implement it effectively?
On this episode of MACHINE SHOP TALK, Ian Sandusky from Lakewood Machine & Tool heads back into the Practical Machinist forums to address a poster who had exactly this question.
When thinking about instituting a minimum charge, there are a few points to keep in mind.
1. What is the minimum setup for your machines, material, tooling, and outside vendors such as anodizing or paint?
2. How do you handle minimum charges with a walk-in first-time customer, versus an established customer placing a small order?
3. How can you best communicate about minimum charges without ruffling feathers or damaging working relationships?
Check out the thread on Practical machinist to find out how other metalworkers deal with this tricky topic. Link to the thread: www.practicalm...
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Ian Sandusky
Lakewood Machine and Tool
lakewoodmachin...
sales@lakewoodmachine.com
(905) 853-6194
LinkedIn: / ian-sandusky-3a223227
Instagram: / lakewoodmachine
What’s the job YOU shouldn’t have taken on?
A Generator rewire after the idiot tried to fix it himself first.
It was some 1960's hardware and I ended up spending 3 days getting that damn thing to be a generator again. It took me 2 of those days to refab the commutator on it.
Very complicated muzzle breaks. Pricing was based off 300 PC order. They we allowed ourselves to get pushed down to 100 pcs at same price... due to a verbal aggreement saying there would be monthly quantities of 100 and offering to down pay for first 100.
Minimums from outside processin, Setup/ run and fixturing ate up all the profit for getting this figured out and the customer has bad to no communication. They go dark when we need updated files for outside processing such as laser engraving...
Very good/ painful learning experience. Other orders not likely.
I don't do a lot of walk in work anymore, but I find it more satisfying than b2b. The excitement and appreciation is much higher than a company just ordering what they need.
The last bit caught my attention. Sticking to your guns is the safest way to do it.
I own a small company and big fishes come and try it on procurement work. Usually you spend the time quoting and they never return your calls. As they just went back to the poor guy who's been busting but to make the last 10 years. Sadly these types of customers still exist.
Our shop had a simple rule. Full price or free. If I can get that walk-in to stop talking so I can walk in the back, super glue the part together (or whatever needs doing in five minutes or less) and hand it back, I have saved myself a half hour of wasted time negotiating a price. Also, you will find “No good deed goes unpunished” I can not tell you the # of times a cheaply priced job has gone bad, but it is close to 100%. When you switch your mindset to full price or free, it really makes certain decisions easier and lets you be fair to yourself, while getting to be a hero every once in a while too.
This is actually a very smart way to look at it! Have to agree on the near 100% walk in quick parts thing going poorly - I’m not sure how my one man show neighbour does it, but I think there’s a good element of being near retirement and just enjoying helping people out involved. Thanks for checking it out!
I like the practice of paying it forward. Good deeds tend to come back in a full circle. Good session, guy!
Quite true! Thank you very much for watching!
We have a good relationship with several smaller local shops and know each other's business models. We funnel customers to each other based on the project requirements. This keeps the work in the right shop and let's each of us stay focused on the work that is appropriate for our own shop.
I have a fairly functional hobbyist fab shop. There is a large shop that sends me small jobs that they don’t want to do. It works out well for both of us, and their customer gets what they wanted.
That’s where I’d like to be, I have a manual lathe and mill at home, and would love to make bushings and other random parts for people. I don’t have any real overhead, so I can charge really low rates. But not sure how to get actual jobs
@@AndySomogyi me too, Andy
My minimum is 1/2 my daily nut. Usually a small job will cause extra time waste and it prevents you from completing a bigger job that day. Completion is important.
It is hard to price things down to the minute on small jobs, but it's easier to have a gut feel on whether the job might take up 1/2 of the day. My daily nut is $400, so my minimum is $200. It's great helping people, but if the customer can't make it worth your while, then they don't respect you.
If a walk-in comes in and I see, I can quickly make $50-100 on it. I'll take it and he'll pick up later or the next day. But 95% of the time I say no, I only make new parts. The maintenance machine shop is down the road, and gladly steer them there.
Those small walk-in job can be a real part of your business. But not for $20, not while-u-wait unless it's ridiculously quick and easy and not if it's going to significantly delay you production schedule.
Great information, thanks!
I'm happy to do odd jobs now and again for people provided it's very simple, a bush here, I shaft there, but people who want actual products made as a favour or on the cheap, I have a rule that they need to provide me a fully dimensioned drawing or a .stp file as a minimum and I direct them to fusion 360. That filters out 99% of people because majority of people don't know what they want or are too lazy to put in a little effort. That said, ss an example of people who do make the effort, we just made a pair of custom winches for a racing sail boat team, cost them about $600 for material and hard anodizing and a Saturday, those retail for about $5000 each.
This is an excellent strategy!
It has a lot to do with how *INTERESTING* a small job is. If I can fit it in and it looks like an interesting challenge, I might take it on for my own satisfaction.
And as mentioned, there is also a certain amount of pro bono work. This guy (or old lady as the case may be) needs something that he can't get for any reasonable amount of money, and you can provide it in a reasonable amount of your time from scrap in the shop - you just do it without considering a charge.
Barter - a sticky subject. The IRS likes to see some taxes on the value of goods and services bartered. Is a gift (of pistachios, say) following a gift of your time actually barter or not?
You are not in the machining business, you are in the people business!! A small job might be a large customer tommorrow!!
Quite true!
never going to happen, how lomg are you doing this?
Anyone know a metal finisher that does small quantities (10-12) of black oxide finish ? I was thinking $200-ish minimum charge - apparently not, after sending some emails and making some calls.....
I bid a job with people wanting it cheap because they knew the material was already here from previous owner. I bid it as I didn't already have the material and some of it was 1 1/2" plate I put minimums on there order I didn't want stuck with half a sheet of plate.
Ya if small work is getting in the way of the rest of your work it doesn't make sense and if you are not making money or at least breaking even unless it's a friend or something like that but that's something different to me but if you can like the lawn mower thing it's just good for the community and word
Plating has a minimum charge.
Nah, sorry don't agree with most of what you said. I run a job shop, one off jobs is all I do and tbh I make a very good living. Materials on the shelf is better than money in the bank as it's always going up in value. If you can't make good money doing one offs then you are going about it the wrong way. Just my 2c, every one is different of course. love your vids, keep them coming.
Only in machining will you find a business owner advocating for holding inventory over cash :)
@@poetac15 Cash is the absolute worst place to hold your assets .... cash de-values on a daily basis whilst "goods" increase. Buy and old tractor or something, but don't hoard cash, not even in a bank.
Yeah I agree but it depends on how your business is setup (ratio of real machinists to machines, number and types of machines, number of operators, tooling, etc). I’m a one man show and prefer the low quantity stuff. I’ve planned for super quick setups, super quick cam using templates, etc, and can make good money with it. 3 hrs to setup a vise and tools is crazy to me.
Did he say burner instead of Barter
slavery is wrong in the first place
why do you accept any slave jobs, its not even honorable, its a shame, even if you try to explain slavery working away
"Usefull use of their time, I guess"
This is business. Before you have so much surpluss time and still cash flows... its... not what you want to spend time on.. if you NEED to spend time on it...your business is not where it SHOULD be..