World buffs and the Dispel Meta: Content or Griefing?
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- World Buffs and how people interact with them. Good or Bad?
There is so much importance put on them by many players, but do they really add that much to the game?
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#wowclassic #wow #warcraft #classicwow #TBC #TheBurningCrusade
Alliance on my server is virtually dead and we still have priests called "nobuffslol" who only exist to dispell Horde raiders. Some people levelled to 60 on a dead server for the sole purpose of griefing others. Think about that.
LMFAO
There's not much to do this game so on one hand it's retarded but on the other if you did anything the game offers then you need to make your own fun.
This sounds like a fun character interaction.
Gut Kick! I am one of those :D
World buffs shouldn't dispelable along with Paladin buffs on themselves, they are already low damage removing anything but auto attack damage is unfair.
"Can you believe these guys staying up until 3 am just to dispel?"
As much as someone staying up until 3 am to buff farm? Yeah.
3 am ? i see same ppl in felwood every flower pop time :D it's lşke 7/24
I would be more happy if world buffs didnt work in raids.
I'd be fine if world buffs were removed upon entering raids. It's actually a bit annoying having to collect them every week.
Michael Landstreet Jr you don’t have to collect them, that’s what gives them value. That value however is what gives the griefers their rise, by taking it away. For the most part, I personally don’t go nuts on the buffs, but I get them if and when I want to, most don’t, few actually get all of them. Removing world buffs would be removing content. And for what? Because some people are dick-wads? They’ll find other ways to be dicks. In the meantime the risk of dispellers is just the added challenge which bring even greater value in having said buffs
No world buffs is my vote, makes the game harder and I get to play my character!
@@MrDjBanza Yeah, that's not how it works, at all.
sounds like your guild leader is a loser
I personally think there shouldn't be world buffs at all. I get them every time, but it's so much extra work. If no one would have them, the raids would be more challenging and you could spend that time for something more useful.
i just use them to lvl chars, the buffs are so op for non-60 chars
Well you will be happy in TBC cause there are no world buffs in TBC.
@@johnengels8017 Just another reason it's genuinely a better game.
lol like what else? not playing the game? because lets be honest, 90% + are prolly raid logging weekly.
Except they don't really make the raid easier the raids were already pretty fucking easy my dude they just make it faster
Hi all,
The other day Blizzard noted that now we will be able to track via logs whether World Buffs are used in raid, those being the major ones like Ony, Songflower, DMT etc
And it looks like WCL are working on a 0 buff category as per their Discord. So this will be happening soon rather than later.
As for who will compete in it. Honestly, cant see top end guilds ditching wbuffs, dont see more casual guilds caring enough to try and make speedruns.
Id be interested to see how it plays out either way - I already like watching the speedclears, I wonder how a 0 buff would be different in terms of tactics, apart from just being slower.
Let me know your thoughts!
WillE
WillE very good video it had some good points I think it should be Impossible to dispel
its the best way to get views on twitch killing hte people with world buffs : D 1 week ago i had 70 viewers 40 of them horde mad at me killing them :D and yes i can see the world buffs with my addon i created
My guild is considering doing one "buffless" run every 4-6 weeks or so, just for funsies. We're normally a pretty competitive guild with everybody getting full buffs. The only barrier is that all the warriors are crying about it because of how much they rely on world buffs.
@@KakashiHatake-vb7sv well that doesnt affect me since i kill the people with world buffs at the FP once they land ^^
DWK lol i think that is completely fine btw what server are you on
Since I pug a lot of raids and some of them require world buffs, I would LOVE for world buffs to just stop existing entirely. I hate the idea of not playing your character to progress your character better
Warcraft logs changed the raiding meta, that higher parse gives dudes a high they can’t get otherwise
if warcraft logs had a worldbuff/flask filter you could have your cake and eat it too
@@kennethwilliams6736 not exactly though because even without world buffs, you would parse better if your guildies had world buffs. So it would have to make sure the whole raid was world buff free
Logs have always existed.
wowalinbie look at the top guilds in your server and make fun of their logs you’ll see what I mean 😂
Ben P yeah im sure vanilla players cared about logs
Once again, WillE is on point and ahead of the game, suggesting tracking worldbuff-less raid logs. You're really hitting the Zeitgeist here man, thanks for your content.
@wowalinbie that small fraction spends an inordinate amount of time and effort to get their parses. it has an outsized effect on a server's economy not to mention the harder to quantify changes to the behavior of other less fanatical players.
As a salty hunter I feel the need to point out that Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer and the Dire Maul:Tribute Attack Power buff effects are MELEE ATTACK POWER only. As it the attack speed bonus from Warchiefs Blessing. Lame.
So what kind of world buffs should I try to get as a huntard?
Git gud and start melee weaving lad
your time will come in the burning crusade
Friendly reminder that if world buffs affected Ranged attack power and Ranged attack speed, our dps would increase by 25% #doomposting
Songflower, Dragonslayer and Ground Scorpok Assay are the most important if you don't weave. Replace assay with zanza speed if horde or max weaving, also always get DMT ap buff for weaving. HoH with assay outweighs zanza speed fully raid buffed such as Blessing of Kings. If weaving you also want firewater-/juju power, juju might, FaP, restorative potion. For your pet you always want scrolls of agility and strength, or replace str scroll with juju power. You also want juju might on pet. For Firemaw you want juju ember on both you and your pet. @edrauzer
I was riding out to raid and went afk in the BRM gate from the Searing Gorge entrance. An alliance raid rode past as I was returning. 4 stragglers followed, all warriors. They turned and ran when they saw me (I'm a shaman btw). I imagine they were all afraid of getting purged and even though it was 4v1 (also I'm heal spec) they would not risk it.
I walked ahead of them and made my way to BWL with them following behind, maintaining proper social distancing the whole way. Funniest interaction I've had with the opposing faction to date 🤣
I can see why people don't like it, but it's what makes the game interesting to me. It's not the game itself, but the interactions between players, good or bad.
As a resto shaman myself I experience the same thing. Run into Alliance players all the time out in Felwood while I'm rune farming, but very rarely do I get attacked by em.
Another good reason to play in PVE server... Don't have to worry about purge stuff
@@ptmarkoviitanen PVE is for the weak hearted
Hidden shaman passive right there
keep dispelling guys i love it
this over reliance on world buffs is moronic.
It's one part of the fun to have them. They exist, so there should be no problem with people enjoying it.
And it takes a lot of time to get them all together. even if you think that people take it too far, it's no reason for people to level low level chars just to take other people the fun out of the game. It's just a lot of preparation destroyed by a single person clicking one single button because they get a little chuckel out of it. That's just being an ahole on the internet, because you usually don't feel the consequences.
@@KirillGavrilenko xD
All players care about these days if that warcraft logs shit. And if you aren't a high number on that you probably lose your raid spot or lose gear to other players who have high numbers on it. The only way to compete on dps with people who have world buffs, is with world buffs, vanilla is a pure numbers game with very little skill involved as far as dps is concerned. So unless Blizz removes world buffs, people are going to use them, because they're forced to by the community who thinks 400+ dps is a requirement to clear even MC, because god forbid Rag submerges once. and if you do anything less you're trash. Players think they're better than you just because they're doing big dps while in full BWL gear, with DM/Ony/Songflower/Darkmoon/Elixirs.
CharmsOCE if you all enjoy it then that’s great. It’s when raid leadership demands it as a crutch to make up for poor gameplay or a poor raid comp that the toxicity starts
CogniVision agree. I was able to clear soldier, spider and abom wings in naxx during vanilla before the bc pre patch made everyone whore out in av, and we didn’t use world buffs or flasks.
I find the whole dispel argument hilarious honestly. I've seen for years people be called carebears etc. for playing PVE and that PVP is 'the way the game is supposed to be played' (despite pvp being a complete after thought in wow). And now that PVP servers have this issue we shift the goalposts to this isn't PVP it's griefing.
pvp is way better than pve
On my realm (Shazzrah) I would consider it content, it keeps the rivalry between alliance and horde alive as both factions participate in it. The thrill of making it to the raid with your buffs or not can be considered content as well.
This sounds exactly like the kind of crazy internet behaviour which made me want Vanilla back in the first place.
Exactly.
World buffs should autodisspell upon zoning into a dungeon or raid... Hints the name world buff..
This would make the game so much better
The thing is that a warrior without world buffs isn't fun to play cause it feels slow and weak. Caster classes don't really care about a small increment but for warriors it changes their rotation and the feel of the game. Without world buffs a warrior isn't fun to play with. I played a fury in tbc and it wasn't a good experience at all.
@wowalinbie no world buffs = no gear. Wow is about getting gear and without contributing as much as others you won't get gear or a core raider spot. So have fun being either benched half the time, getting no gear or being in a guild that has no standards and does MC in 3+ hours. It's pretty much needed for a decent experience.
Honestly I find this just hilarious. People who complain about this are usually same people complaining about how easy the game is so honestly losing their buffs does very little other than annoying them.
The more I play Classic, the more I realise how horribly designed it was pre-BC.
I'd say how "roughly" it was designed, they had good ideas, just not nearly polished enough.
@@hizzousekakashi8836 I love rubbish games like that. They feel like they always could be better than their already existing successors
It has some rather questonable parts when put infront of modern standards
Though guy:
I’m going to roll on a pvp server because I like the danger of no rules pvp!
A few moments later:
People are doing it wrong! They are being big bullies and do mean things!
If only there had been any historical record or information about what a pvp server is.
^this
Also the whole idea of creating game rules that aren't programmed into the mechanics is a broken model,.
If you can't figure out how to program that rule into the games code then it's not a rule. If it's built into the game and the devs don't change it once aware of it then that's how the game is meant to be played.
We all know the REAL answer to this:
world buffs and parsing shouldn't have been a thing in the first place.
@Wat Denkkksst I am on a PvE server lmao
@Wat Denkkksst never was c:
@Wat Denkkksst lmaooo other way around buddy. I'm tired of all the uber sweaty tryhards crying about their Wbuffs/parse, and that is how to get them to stop.
I don't play classic anymore so take this for what it is: I personally think all "world buffs" should be dispelled when you enter a raid, and then rebalance the content accordingly (if needed.)
It's not fun running around collecting them, it's not fun not playing your character because you "need" to save them, it's not fun to casually get dispelled either.
But it's fun to have 50% crit
Well the answer is both.. I've had a great deal of headache getting dispelled but it has also allowed me to approach the game differently in terms of how to avoid the dispellers. At this point I don't see the dispellers as being disruptiive or griefing as much as I see them as part of the game in which I need to make it to BRM without losing my buffs. Is the game more fun and/or challenging now? Maybe. I've found ways to avoid them, trick them and use my guildmates to help me not get dispelled. It might be disruptive sure, but it has certainly added new depth to the game which didnt exist piror. Would I prefere the game without dispellers? Most certainly, but it also makes the effort of getting world buffs something more extraordinary which it wasnt't before.
Solid way of looking at it, I certainly play around the idea of getting dispelled constantly
Worldbuffs keep ticking on Hunter pets even if your logged out. Blizzard hates hunters
Not to mention all the attack power buffs in the game is melee only.
I didnt know that! First no ranged AP from ony or DMT now, this, Blizzard truely has something against you
@@WillEmmo Imagine timing your raids for extra pet damage. I can.
@blob blob in raiding we are very low dmg for a dmg class. We are in fact so low if we did not have to tranq we would not be in a raid at all.
in tbc hunter haters gonna cry like babies. waiting for it :)
Classic feels like an entire game populated by Twitch chat, yikes.
thats because its true this generation was spoonfed twitch and tictoc and whatever the fuck
because it is like this yeah. they hear something and want to immediately do this, think the only way to do it is min maxing everything.
Exactly the reason I play older mmos, EQ and EQ2 even. I enjoy WoWs gameplay more honestly but at least the community in those other games don't act like toxic 12 year olds.
Only if you play on Faerlina
For the first time playing world of Warcraft, i feel like playing on a PvP server is actually playing in a world at war. Which is cool and what i thought the game was supposed to be back, when i started, a bit younger than now. I love the flavour, even though it impacts gameplay.
The best solution to the world buff clown fiesta would be if players were to lose all non-player applied buffs when entering a raid dungeon.
Fun for a few at the expense of others? That sums up PvP in general. This is what you signed on for by rolling on those servers.
No D:
I was willing to fight in the open world for resources, geting killed while questing and even ganked in the way to raid. But witnessing a psyco dispelling for 8 hours on kargath (you can even tell who his horde account is, since it targets the player before ressing his dispeler and dispell that same target) it's discouraging and scary at the same time. It is what it is? sure but it has no possible defence, is a scary behaviour and a non rewarding (ingame) act. Maybe you disagree, i'm just a noobie that started playing on launch and is really suffering all this shitshow >.
@Andrew Davis but they can always xfer to a pve server or just level a new character if they don't want to fork over 25 dollars
That's not PvPing. Watching a 10-man multiboxer sitting in the orb room spawn murdering entire guilds over and over again is not "PvP", that's degeneracy. There's no "player vs player" interaction aside from praying everyone in the raid has Greater Arcane Prot Pots and sappers to hopefully kill them just once. I watched one guy 10-man multibox on my server and grief guilds attempting the dragon world bosses for 6 hours.
This is the "hurr durr PvP happened on a PvP server" argument and it's not a good one. This is dedication to sucking the fun out of the game via means of being sweaty. Getting camped/ganked/fights when farming/etc are part of open world PvP and cross faction interactions. Multiboxers, Griefers, 12-hour shift dispellers in the SW mage tower or Kargath are essentially griefers. However, I wouldn't say there's much that could be done without creating a slippery slope of "fixes".
I would appreciate world buffs purge upon entering the instance. It would make things less frustrating and content would be more difficult and enjoyable.
The logout is my main concern, people will log out and play alts for days once they have their buffs.
thats why i dont farm these world buffs
i love to play pvp way to much and logging out holding on them ? hell no thats not fun
No wbuffs category sounds like a lot of fun, i would push it even futher and also make it no consums
Our server (I dont want to name it since its an oasis of awesome) has very good cross faction relations, and a sort of mutually assured destruction among the top guilds helps us all understand that we dont want to start a war and if wars are started, they are specifically between those two guilds until it can be resolved. It helps that because of the smaller server size, most people are well known entities and guilds do not have a hard time policing their members. Also members are less likely to attempt to start something without the guilds consent since it would make it difficult for them to not be blacklisted.
Aside from the headache of getting each world buff, when you finally get them all, you're constantly stressed until raid time thinking about how much time left you have on them. You basically can't play that character while you have them. World buffs suck.
Sounds like you’re getting world buffs when you don’t really want to get them. Why? It’s a choice
I think there is also the added stress during the raid deaths feel even worse. Add in if someone makes a mistake that wipes the raid and folks who spent gold and time getting all those buffs are at least disappointed and worst angry. It definitely can put a damper on the whole rest of the raid night if we lost our buffs early on and know that weeks attempt at parsing is ruined. On the other hand it can feel quite rewarding to complete a BWL raid and still have plenty of buff time left for MC after.
@@Abalamski it's really not from most guild's perspective. Which is unfortunate
It's called raid logging til raid day once you have your buffs and consumes all sorted.
@@Abalamski I would like to actually play my character outside of raids, but as a main tank I *have* to get world buffs to keep threat over the DPS Warriors that get them too. I didn't make a Warrior to tank back in September because I wanted to get world buffs on it, but unfortunately this is how the raid meta turned out.
The consensus seems to be that no one would miss world buffs.
Just a thought, if you join the dispelling community, they will eventually fall out of favor when the minmaxers can't have nice things.
Technically, I'm doing everyone a public service and you should too.
Asher Aluminumstein nope, keep the world buffs
Isnt PVP = Player Vs Player ? Why wouldn't you dispel a player of the opposit faction ? I personnaly play on a PVE server but i dont see the problem with this dispel "issue" on Pvp servers
Because the intent is to just grief. I'd understand If the opposing faction tried to kill them, but instead they just dispell and run away.
@@destai00 isnt all ganking with just the intent to grief`?
This whole issue is people who feel like they're entitled to play on a PVP server but other players shouldn't be able to negatively impact them. Entitled whiners who can't admit they picked the wrong server type for their playstyle.
"Darkmoon Faire buff - easily the safest one to get"
John Cena: *ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?*
Being on a PvE server, watching the shenanigans people go through to dispell other's world buffs on PvP servers is endlessly entertaining.
More work needs to be put into finding out how to overfill someone buff cap so that PvE players can also feel the love when someone from their own side knocks their buffs of.
I wish I could transfer to PvE from PvP, but there's no way and the transfers would cost me a TON :(
@@ashrasmun1 It's just not worth it. PVP servers are the worst unless you love being a bully.
I played on a pvp server back in vanilla days but I went on a pve server on classic because I knew I won't have much time today to deal with griefers.
I leveled on a PvP Server, it was awesome. But then I needed to take a WoW break for several weeks while Phase 2 hit. End of the story, I releveled on a PvE Server because I wouldn't pay Blizz 25E for messing things up af. No it's great and I don't regret the decision, leveling on a PvP Server during Phase 1 was just more entertaining to me somehow. :)
Tony Stark/Iron Man: I wanted you to be better. I'm going to need the suit back.
Peter Parker/Spider-Man: But I'm nothing without this suit!
Tony Stark/Iron Man: If you're nothing without this suit, then you shouldn't have it.
On PvE servers, there are still attempts at doing this. Just in the form of coordinated low level alts on the same faction spam buffing you with crappy buffs to try and push off wbuffs.
In my mind, its all griefing for the hell of it and pretty much against the spirit of the game. Glad I'm not on a PvP server though.
REALLY? Holy fuck pyscos everywhere. WHat a great game filled with a bunch of sociopaths. I wish i went PvE, once P2 launched it made game hell and world PvP wasn't fun anymore, just a zerg fiesta in most cases. Only having fun in PvP on BG's and a very few moments into the open world.
It's not THAT bad tbh. Sure there are Rogues in the portal area of Orgrimmar 24/7, Priests in BB and Kargath trying to dispel you. So Horde are selling safe spot summoning services for 10g in Booty Bay and Songflower locations, and portals are often given to Thunder Bluff instead. Horde are also selling safe spot summons to MC and BWL, and because Alliance are outnumbered on our server they usually get their asses kicked pretty hardcore every raid night. Not to mention our own Felwood gank squads that kill any Alliance trying to get Songflowers.
It's part of the game. Sure it can be (real fucking) annoying but players have found lots of ways to get around the gankers and dispellers, and you can even make a pretty nice buck out of it by creating a summonlock and a couple alts with some guildies or standing on a flower with a Mage alt to sell portals. On PvP servers I think it's just content. On PvE servers though, people spam buffing you to hit the buff cap, that IS griefing IMO.
Screwing over people on your own faction is definitely griefing. Going after opposite faction is content, in my opinion.
As a warrior, I must add that removing world buffs from raids would totally change the entire raiding meta. Just do a minimal intervention by making DMT and Songflower physical buffs like Rallying Cry and Darkmoon.
HI Willie, dont know if you make a video about it yet, but I would like to know your opinion about running npc trougth walls when you are fighting them (of course, it always happens when you are fighting with 3 already and that runner bring 2 more npc with him/her, so you ended up dieing cause bugs, since you cant run trought the same wall to finish him/her).Tx
One of the ways to attempt to counter Purge is to spam Buff's that are not necessary to cover up the good ones. As a warlock I like using detect invisibility and underwater breathing.
as mentioned in your excellent video, the entire grieving wouldn't be a problem if worldbuffs wouldn't make such an impact. And i think they should either scale back worldbuffs significantly or remove them outright. In a Game with 9 Classes, of wich 8 are available to each faction, it sure does not sound "healthy" if 20 out of 40 slots at least are filled with warriors. And Warriors just happen to scale best with Worldbuffs.
The problem is, even if you choose to ignore worldbuffs or play a class that does not gain the same ammount of performance out of it, your guildmates will more often than not pressure you into getting them anyway.
I in the past had raids that started extremely well, but after an unlucky wipe, half the raid didn't seem to wanna play anymore because they had just wasted an hour of their efforts in getting worldbuffs and now not being able to play with them. Wucg then also souered the evening for everyone else.
Worldbuffs inherently increase toxicity in the game by a lot and should just get removed
PvE Realms exist, I am on one and I love it. I'm tired of these irrelevante issues like Ganking, purging, Faction balance that literally you chose yourself by going on a PvP server.
thank you... :)
I streamed doing some ganking and purging in Booty Bay people landed and died instantly in Booty Bay with world buffs they came into my stream and fucking flamed me and one guy even made a alliance account and he told me to hang myself so what I did was make a ticket and Blizzard answerd after an hour and said they punished the player : D btw that stream had 70 viewers with 50 being horde insulting me
@@meta6287 Yeah that IS the flavour of a PvP realm. I do not enjoy it, but I do respect peoe who do. You chose this realm type to have these interactions and you deserve them. If someone wants to raid safely with buffs up, come to a PvE realm of your choice.
We all knew how broken PvP was when coming back to classic. I hope this behaviour of dispelling continues indefinitely.
#nochanges #youthinkyoudo
Your videos are awesome. Best youtube content on classic wow right now. Keep up the good work man!
I absolutely love that this video is even necessary. I'm alliance, and i could absolutely care less about these world buffs. They're completely overpowered and have created an absolutely absurd meta in-game. Watching Shamans camp SW mage tower only to dispell players that portal in is absolutely hilarious, in the same sense that ganking lowbies is hilarious. Fun if you do it, horrible if you're on the receiving end. At the end of the day, though, it's no more "griefing" than ganking lowbies is. It serves no other purpose than to annoy/frustrate other players. If ganking lowbies is allowed than this is.
As a Shaman i feel shame of those bastards doing it. What's the point? In Kargath happens as well. Those people are psyco rats that need to inflate their self steem with the sense of having some sort of power over the others. Totally disgusting.
@@faylure9985 I agree - but it's no different than ganking. The outcome is exactly the same. Frustration with no gain on either end.
Can't agree with you, if the priest or shaman had to kill you to achieve ruining you buffs then sure would totally find that cool and kinda funny in a pvp way, but when the little pussy just takes your buffs and die or dispell and run away it's just stupid, atleast make them have to go for the kill
@@davebernstein5788 Unfortunately ganking was never about showing dominance. Its main purpose was to grief, to cause as much rage, frustration and sadness as possible. They're not necessarily running away because they're afraid to fight you, it's because they know that taking away your buffs and then speeding off without as much of a fight would cause more grief than a gank ever could.
After all, it's a very easy thing to do, just the press of a button and regardless of one's skill there's nothing anyone can do to defend against it. It's frustrating beyond belief and they know that. This is the griefers' response to the world buff meta, they found a way to surpass ganking.
@@brandonspengel5727 Yeah but i mean, you get ganked you give honor, you get dispelled and all you give is a burst of dopamine to the brain of the psyco controling the dispeller. Ganking/killing has a reward ingame even if your goal is just being anoying (not counting ganking greys or killing 15 times the same person tho), camping while dead and the ress to dispell someone that spent the afternoon gathering buffs it's beyond my understanding. But yes in the end you have the good point, it's not that diferent even tho ingame rewards are completely diferent.
In my server, rank1 horde guild instruct all its members to level alliance priests to dispell other horde guilds
Ally guilds on my server don't care enough about horde progression to do this. I imagine it's same on most servers
I say this is closer to cheating (like in arena, ddosing opponents or hacking opponents accounts to maintain rank1) than griefing. It should be bannable offense.
They chose to play on a PvP server. How can people complain about this? What a fucking joke.
You should lose world buffs when entering a raid instance
Wtf why that'd be stupid
Used to do that on lights hope for the first 3 months of a raid release. I really liked that. Made progression progression and made farm raids more fun.
No. I like buffs
Agreed, but meh. No changes should be the go to as far as possible I guess. Would be more fun as well IMO, no stress on getting dispeled, not constant looking for timers and this anoying and time consuming nongameplay stuff plus the fact that if you wipe you lose consumes anyway, so it's punishing anyway without the need of adding the sad/angry feeling of spending maybe hours loging on/off and traveling to get the buffs, and not to mention more active people tend to have them easier via summons or grouping up while players with less time normally have to do it on their own, probably spending more gold and time in the process.
It sounds like a way to crate artificial "challegne" to the game. I think World Buffs allow for guilds to be more creative when speedrunning. SALAD BAKERS actually did one of their MC speed runs with one party of people with Marshal Windsor's buffs from the jailbreak quest and it was incredibly entertaining.
It also depends on the class you play. As I commented elsewhere, playing a warrior with world buffs vs without world buffs is a totally different game. Losing world buffs mid raid as a warrior feels terrible, your rotation feels sluggish and you feel like you're doing less. In that case your damage and potential are limited by either your guild's drops (we've had historically bad drops, one Maladath and two CTS' since BWL release) or your commitment to going for R14. It solves some "issues" and creates plenty of others.
Interesting vid, thanks WillE! It's made me properly consider what effect the buffs have on our raid, other than the listed ones in their description.
Personally I've found that world buffs prevent our raids from having a level playing field, which removes some of the fun. If a better player than me dies on Vael during a BWL run I'll probably beat their total damage that week, which is no fun for them. It doesn't mean I was a better player than them that week. If I die to something early I have no chance to compete with them, or compare my performance to the previous week, which is no fun for me. Knowing that you have to put in the time and effort to go get buffed up multiple times a week (not to mention farming your blasted lands pots), then not use the character you've poured countless hours into gearing up until raid time just so that you're not starting off with a handicap in the race for good parses feels bad. Any RL responsibilities that prevents collection of the buffs can turn raid night into a chore of filling your spot and knowing that you can't compare your numbers to all the juicers. And RNG can put a spanner in the works during the raid any time it wants.
That being said, when all the main DPS players are buffed to the gills, you're slaughtering bosses in record time and getting some sweet sweet damage numbers it does feel pretty awesome. Makes not being buffed feel a bit disappointing. Which I think makes those buffs pretty addictive!
As for the dispellers, I put anyone who derives pleasure in destroying the work of others and ruining people's fun into the same basket, be that in a game or IRL. Established guild rivalries exempt of course as then it's just an extension of raid night into the PvP world environment in a way.
Griefing, no doubt. I love the fact that you used the adjective Degenerate. Because it fits perfectly.
Can't even count the amount of times I've been dispelled my world buffs on my way to MC/BWL :'(
Good video WillE! Some people actually go to insane lengths to dispel others world buffs, it's like it's their mission to dispel people lmao
I thought solheim would of been summoned behind ubrs portal with the ubrs ID cleared to the bwl portal
..had this idea back in 2005, but i not sure if it would be popular today..
when a world buff drops, an ITEM appears in your inventory which has a 1 time use (like food or water it goes away after consuming it, has 1 stack only, and is BOP). the player can then choose to hoard the item or use as they see fit. usually they take it to raid and until the raid they are encouraged to keep playing since the buff will wait a week till the next raid.
meh good luck, i quit the classic relaunch months ago, it didnt feel anything like 2005ish golden age but instead it felt like private server (which is a different but fun experience)
very quality of life change on the surface to be able to store them, but stacking your entire bank with them as a preparation for naxx would be very annoying on the long run
@@horvathakos3465 They could make them unique
So Warcraft Logs just put out a poll on their front page asking the community whether (a) a buff-free parsing category should be added, and (b) whether that should become the new default competitive category. If you have an opinion on this topic, then please make an account on the site if you don’t have one already and vote! The decision that they make will have huge impacts on how Classic will be played moving forward.
i honestly don't even care about this topic nor this game anymore i just really enjoy your voice its oddly relaxing to listen to while playing other games no homo ofc
hey, ill take it
@@WillEmmo much love
I haven't played vanilla ever lol
On Sulfuras, there is a group of 15+ priests on the alliance that stay dead in the Kargath inn only to dispel raiders that hearth to the inn to bet to BRM as soon as they appear. They die very fast, but do this all day and every day to make sure entire guilds have to take a longer route and lose time on their buffs. On top of that there are several groups of rogues that will try to find several guilds main tanks in Org and kill them as soon as any buff drops
Treat Instances like Arena. Upon zoning in you get wiped of all buffs. Whatever buff you do get have to be added from inside the instance.
None of the content was created with all these buffs in mind, so having them trivialises the content. Molten Core wasn't designed to be steamrolled in 20 minutes, neither was BWL.
Disable world buffs in raids for good. Content is easy enough, world buffs just create unnecessary hassle and make raids so much easier, to say nothing of how they scale differently on various classes.
i wont say remove them they are good and i am happy to have them on my leveling alt i dont like them for raids
@@robinpowa1 oh, I meant in raids, ty =)
World buffs are FUN. Don't be the fun police. That's why most classic players don't play retail. Because blizzard systemically removed stupid fun stuff like world buffs.
fux that man, id take losing world buffs any day over having them disabled, its such a big part of the game especially considering this iteration of world buffs was only a thing during classic. How cool it is to see masses gather in cities to get buffs, trying to get buffs on alts and tearing through quest content when you can manage to grab it. And this is coming from a guy that might try to parse once a month, if that, because i dont break my balls trying to suck up every world buff the game has to offer weekly. Its not an issue of world buffs, its an issue of slimy dirt bags that literally pay a monthly sub for a game where they spend a majority of their play time being pests, punks and pricks. Also check out how easy content is on aq release... and honestly I'm not trying to be an ass but "content is easy enough" is such a sweaty argument and that mindset has attributed to like 85% of complaints people have had since classics release. Sure, maybe if ur in the minority that have had their guilds feed them bis loot each week, a guild that has been dumb lucky and gotten all their core raiders geared to shit already or a guild that has been no lifing classic content for years on pservers before classic went live. Those are also the same people that want blizz to rush out content which in turn ruins the experience for 75% of the rest of the players, its one of the shittiest things in the world... of warcraft. My mains guild for instance offered one of the best progression experiences ever thus far. We didnt burn through MC by any means. Our first few weeks in MC, had some wipes, mostly on ass pulls and other trash mob worst case scenarios, but we progressed through it with some prebis, some random loot our guys managed to get on the mc bosses we could manage to kill during progression. Other than that garr and rag offered some issue but after a couple of attempts we got them down. Was is that hard, nah, but it also isnt supposed to be crazy challenging as the first tier of raiding. WE had MC on farm after a couple weeks. Been farming it since like october, still havent seen a ring of spellpower. Ony offered some goofy challenges, but we got her down also, farm her to shit now but there was some type of progression to be had there also. BWL, took us 2 weeks to down nef, had it on farm 3rd week, not the hardest but still, most real taste of progression yet, learning the mechanics, niche situations that some of the bosses and trash there provide. First week in bwl went smooth until firemaw. Wiped on him the rest of raid time that night, few more wipes the next day but got him down, 2nd week got through chromag, went back next day got nef. We've seen 1 tear, 1 staff, shit is rough but i still love it. Pretty much point im trying to make is all of us classic players fought to get wow classic back the way it was so why are people making up reasons to change it....
New equipment has arrived? Have you re-recorded the outro as well?
On my server the Horde literally schedule DKP events to camp the entrances of BRM with sapper charges to wipe raids, so they can't get in with buffs. The level of petty and the level of sweaty are strong.
Lol
I hope it gets so bad that we just give up on world buffs.
Just a note on the ZG buff, it buffs current stats by 15% not stats buffs added after it so this should always be the last buff as well as buffs and stat potions
The problem is using a combination of 2 addons, you can see which Magic Auras (DMT, Songflower) that the enemy has. This is obviously circumventing game mechanics since a Mage's Detect Magic should be used to see buffs.
As a previous comment stated, should just work in open world and auto disable if going into instanced content. Getting an ony buff when leveling is great, and its a nice reward for clearing the raid. But it shouldn't be mandatory for going into a raid
7:52
Purgegoesbrr
MVP name
Personally i'd like to see them be removed when you enter a raid, just for the simple fact that so many salty tears would fall
you are one of those dispellers aint u? or a slacker
@@hameleonz4905 I'm a rogue, and I've played since vanilla. World buffs aren't needed at all, I just like to laugh at people that are so try hard at trivial content. Are you one of those butthurt folks that spends hours getting them and then cries when someone having a good time takes advantage of you being on a pvp server and dispels you? Either way you'll clear the content
@VideoGames4Days ! woah dude calm down contain your alpha male
it prolly gives a lot of players something to actually do in the game that feels sort of productive. Otherwise raid logging would be so much worse.
"Personally i'd like to see them be removed when you enter a raid, just for the simple fact that so many salty tears would fall"
I am not even so sure that would happen; after all, everyone not having world buff would be a great equalizer. And ultimately, it would save people the pain of having to plan around collecting them before every raid.
I found having HS in westfall really helped me keeping my buffs. Once i fly to SW the pvp flag turns off and I cant be dispelled. And once i HS to westfall I keep an eye out for hordes and prepare to bubble.
Usually I just skip songflower, because the risk is far to high to get dispelled over there.
But to be honest. As a healer, I dont really care about losing songflower and DMT. Sure, 8 % crit means alot more healing and mana, but I am sufficent without it during the current content. Its more important for dps and tanks I think. And I dont ever get mad about getting dispelled. My reasoning is that if you dedicate so much time into doing something as unproductive as running around and dispelling people for no personal gain, you probably dont have much else going for you in the moment. If that is source of joy for that individual, I dont want to take that away from him/her. He/she probably doesnt have much else tbh.
Worldbuffs are the #1 reason I want to take a long break.
I'd rather spend an hour more inside a raid than an hour or more gathering that crap.
My guild requires at least 3 each raid and the PUG I join weekly gives +20 to rolls for 4 buffs. Damn cancer.
Right. And then people say, "lul just dont get world buffs". A... As a tank, I MUST get world buffs to be able to hold aggro. B- Without world buffs, your dps is trash and you do not feel as if you are contributing to the raid.
Yeah it seems really lame and not skillfull.
@@Marunius Imagine playing classic PvE and talking about skill. I mean if you really want to have a game that requires skill raid mythic in BFA and not BWL. I am sorry but if you are looking for a difficult game, you chose poorly with classic.
sounds like you should quit that guild imo
The reason the dispelling Meta started was because layers were introduced and there is no way to whipe a raid anymore since people just get summoned to a glitched position and then runs into the raid. It is currently the only way to have an actual war with the other faction.
100% content, it keeps the world alive and those who can deal with adversity will thrive.
Couple of things to mention here. First, I did not know that only few buffs are dispelled which makes dispelling bareable/acceptable from my point of view. Second, we had way harder time keeping up world buffs back in vanilla because we get killed on our way to raids. So if some losers are going to only dispel instead of killing raiders then I’m fine with it.
Earthshaker has/had the most insane meta, 2-3 dispellers in kargath, felwood, and even in orgrimmar AH, bank and near the roof, at a time, on tuesday / wednesday busy as hell
Pretty simple. Don't play on a PvP server if you don't consent to potentially being dispelled. People are such crybabies.
In my opinion it's too late to fix world buffs. We're passed the first few phases. People did MC in 30~ minutes (or less). Why are we holding this content to high esteem? It's not challenging (we made it so). And, why do some expect others to go through so much work just to perpetuate the trivialization of content. No one is playing the game anymore. We've identified the path of least resistance and we're playing that version of the game, pretending the rest of the game is still there. Classic wow was a chance to find enjoyment and find new ways to relive those moments, and all we did was race to the end to show off who is the coolest person on a hill, that ultimately is surrounded by no one.
Sorry for the vent.
This is so painfully true. I’ve never understood parse chasing in wow. So much of it depends on your guild rather than you as an individual.
Nice video WillE The dispelling madness is quite annoying I use tons of scrolls just for as a layer of defense
On a PVE server, world buffs are fantastic fun. You spend low-pressure time with your friends and guildies ahead of raid, and shoot the shit and crack jokes, and see if you can shave time off how many minutes you lose before you step into BWL. Then you go and perform well in raid and see big numbers, and pat yourself on the back for a job well done. They have a relatively linear effort/reward structure, and they add tension to the raid, because a death is way more meaningful. Overall, i love them, and i am extremely happy about being coaxed into playing on a PVE server.
This makes the game so alive and dangerous. It lacked in retail therefore I'm really happy to see people trying to dispel in classic. Enjoy the game!
yeah the game is so alive
Nihilum did not use the buffs for Naxx progress per say. They only used it on e.g. Sapphiron when they had progressed on him for 100 tries and knew that now they would kill him. Then they went to get buffs.
was chillin in your all playlist bro and you got some unlisted dark simpsons vid in there? like vid 28 lmao
"ClAsSiC Is EaSy BoYs" yet you go such lengths to cheese through raids.
It's easy even without world buffs, so the only fun thing to do is measure personal performance.
@TheRaellz You aren't the top in the world even if you manage to cheese some parses lmao.
Spend hours collecting buffs and not playing your character for a week to raid for 30mins. I dont get it.
i dont think you should complain about this if you chose to play on a PvP server
Why can't world bluffs be replaced by a consumable buff. E.g. raid kills ony, head drops, you turn in the head.. everyone in sw or org as well as everyone tied to that raid id receives a single use buff potion/token. It would work for almost every buff.. with only slight modifications. This way you could just use them inside your raid and dispelling isn't even an issue.
I’ve never been a dispelled and I never intend to be. But I disagree with you. This is COMPLETELY PvP. This is a MACRO aspect of the War between the Alliance and horde. If a faction can make it more difficult for the other to raid, then that faction will ultimately progress faster and be more effective in the overall war. PvP isn’t just skirmishes and battlegrounds. Its’s a faction-wide, continuous fight for the server.
i like this.
They should just fix the bug where Mind Controlling the NPC resets the intended cooldown for the buff. This wasn't the way we played Vanilla and it's a meta that only came about when private server players spent 15 years min/maxing and brought it back to Classic
eh, idk, I generally don't like neither world buffs nor warriors, and since dispelling, as you said, doesn't stop you from playing the game in the way camping or pulling the elite hunter demon does, I don't see it as such big of a deal. Also, I like the idea of playing a game as a game, not as a competition, so doing a sensible thing like picking a songflower (just before a group of raiders does), killing a priest that MC'd a friendly NPC or putting Ony's head on the stake (just before a raid group logs in with their head) feels good to me.
We had a shaman in the mage tower dispelling, we delt with him by drowning him in the Blackrock mountain lava via mind control for the entire length of his guilds Raid night. That sent a message to the horde about that practice.
on pvp servers griefing players for fun is just normal, just purging or killing doesnt matter. if thats to hardcore maybe pvp servers arent for you. Since everyone does it and players go to massiv lengths to kill your raid before entering BWL just to get rid of your buffs and make you mad makes them happy. Our raid gets constantly killed by a full rank 13/14 alliance raid who camp BRM every day farming every player entering. So you try to get them back on raid day, thats normal for PVP servers, that back and fourth is what makes the game interesting for many ppl
That would be difficult for me to answer without a wall of text, so be warned.
I do not think labeling it as "good" or "bad" is all that useful. Instead, I would rather focus on opportunities and limitations it creates.
On a "sort of negative" side, the biggest problem is that to play the main character to extract as much of its potential as possible, the best option is not to play. Literally. Get the buffs, including darkmoon one on the last day of the event, and just stay offline with them till the raid time (3 day or more, depends on a guild schedule). Also it brings extra griefing opportunities, and trivializes not so difficult content even further.
On a "lets call it positive" side... well, it's hard for me to name something purely positive, but there are a few neat concepts:
- not all players are like that, but I like experimenting with different gear, collecting multiple sets, a bunch of trinkets and so on. And most of them are sub-optimal to a different degree. But world buffs have so strong effects that I can, say, slap a shadowcraft set on my cat, or cadaverous one, try buch of trinkets, and just test all those different things without holding back my group.
- one of hot topics of discussions in other expansions were content nerfs. I remember debates about tBC content nerfs, ICC stacking buff and attempts to at least try to do a run without them, chopping away the difficulty of all the starting content of Cataclysm. And here I look at the world buffs and think, was it really necessary? If that would be possible to keep a similar "opt-in" system, why nerf anything? (except bug fixes or something unintended) Just leave for the players an option to siplify the content if it's too hard as is, or just to test something, or learn mechanics before going without them, and leave a separate section (wowlogs, achievements or whatever) for no_world_buff runs.
- sure, buffs like dragonslayer are somewhat annoying to deal with, but there is already a much more convenient version of it: zanza potions. I just use zanza spirit to gain 2h buff and then take the next one while I wait for the heart of Hakkar one. And that's it: minimal inconvenience, insentive to do more ZG runs, even when I do not need any items from there, same-ish 2 hour buff, and I also have a "second chanse".
TL;DR: I think that this implementation of world buffs is flawed, but the opportunities it could have with minor tweaking are worth mentioning too.
This is one of the reasons why we wanted wow classic in the first place. All these quirky features of the game developers didn't expect to result in certain things... Not like the new versions of wow which are finely tuned controlled safe space for people to do transmog and buy pets.
The content difficulty is not geared towards world buffs at all.
Heck you are not even supposed to use flasks.
The current content has all of its fun mechanics skipped.
I got into an argument about this topic on a video about possible upcoming vanilla private server that people want to be absolute HashtagNoChanges. When I put out that dispelling right after resurrecting from ghost state has no counter-play, they went "yes there is, just readjust the entire way you play the game to avoid people who get their fun by ruining your fun."
They said you could just avoid being flagged which confused me but I think they meant that if I'm worried about ress dispel griefers at SW bank fountain, I need to have my HS in Sentinel Hill instead, wait there for PvP flag to wear off and THEN fly to SW. Even if this was perfectly reasonable, how long until someone sets up their dispel alt at the Sentinel Hill inn?
Removing wbuffs is to drastic a change, they’re still a cool part of classic. Just make them non-dispelable. Felwood for us is just a nightmare, night elf priests in shadowmeld, how the he’ll do you counter that? These guys are here all day, they get nothing out of it other than knowing that they’re fucking up someone else’s day. If that’s not griefing I don’t know. It’s also just the fact that it feels really shitty, at least if someone kills you you can at least say “well he or they were better than me, I can try to be better next time”. With dispelling the whole “I’ll be better next time” just isn’t a thing, it’s uninteractable which makes it completely un-fun
100%
Maybe if you don't like it don't use the buffs? I heard classic is easy and yet people lose time to gather lotuses and buffs.
Lol so using buffs that were never intended to be mandatory raid buffs is "part of classic" but changing the game game to make them non-dispellable is an ok change. Lol just admit yall are making this shit up as you go.
My favourite wbuff dispeller is still the shaman alt "Urgetopurge", what a legend
I feel like a half change they could make to test the water is to just make it so if someone is a higher level than you your dispel has a chance to fail or even cant work at all. It'd deal with the hordes of multi box dispel mobs while not completely removing it and they could just gauge the reaction by the community
I love the general idea of world buffs, I just hate how absolutely mental they are. Make every single world buff a fifth of the current effect and I'm totally fine with keeping it exactly as is. Having to be online basically the whole day for a 10% crit bonus on top of other crazy shit is just absolutely ludicrous in my opinion.
World buffs are fine, they aren't essential to the game and only provide a bonus to those who are more careful or well prepared for raid. Its always better to look at them as frosting rather than a whole cake. The griefing is "toxic" but largely harmless and reminds people they are playing in a living world.
The only real issue is that it encourages raid logging which sucks.
People laughed at me when I said nelf priests were the kings of griefing.
Its part of the game. So much of high end raiding currently is based around speedruns, and while removing world buffs wouldnt make speedruns pointless it would largely remove the tools that people use to remove time from their clears. I personally have had more fun than I should dispelling on a 53 night elf priest in felwood and to be honest I think it helps maintain a healthy hatred between the alliance and horde communities which I think is essential for PVP servers.
I personally think world buffs are pretty awful. I will be very glad once they're a thing of the past in TBC.
Yeah, I agree. So much effort for just a bit more dps. And you need to log out asap and shit. I'm getting close to 60 and I'm definitely not looking forward to that part of raiding.