This clarified a lot of things that were still confusing me about short stroking. Thanks for explaining it. I'm definitely going to think about it differently.
Good video, lot's of great information. You have quite a wealth of knowledge, and much of the principles you discuss can be applied to other things outside of airsoft. This is one of the reasons I like your videos so much. Keep up the good work.
Not exactly an accurate explanation of the effects of short stroking but reasons for doing it are well enough. Lots of complex physical and electrical concepts at play there. Appreciate your thoughtfulness for the customer and each individual circumstance. So many techs just like to rinse and repeat. Never challenging themselves or learning to adapt to players' unique preferences. Cheers Luke. P.S. I spotted that black cylinder head early on in the video and glad to say I've been using the same ones! Great little things for the price and gives the machines a good balance of reliability and consistency.
Main reason for my short stroking, normally just 2, is to help increase the cycle speed and put less stress on the spring guide and piston when they get mashed together. Helps with longevity and acoustics.
Excited to watch this one, hoping he explains how it affects volume and how to use that to your advantage🤘 been short stroking for a long time and while I get how it affects volume I’m still experimenting on how to optimize it
If im short stroking, usually go with the cyma platinum method. Shs 13:1s Shs sector delayer Shs piston. Short stroke -2 pick up and -2 release. Runs and feeds great past 30rps on even the worst mags
@@MasadaGbTech if your going for trigger response, id say 4 tooth SS. 3 off the pickup and 1 off the release. Or if you wanna run high rof with a sector delayer, 2 off the pickip 2 off release. But tbh if your on 18:1s id just leave it alone unless your shooting hot. If your after trigger response you should get a ser of 13:1s and short stroke them. Youll get better results.
I was always led to believe that the whole point of a pad on the cylinder was to reduce the shock load on the gearbox but that you might need to correct AoE as a result, not the other way around. Whenever I've used those big Airlab pads I've cut them down to keep the AoE sensible.
i think a lot of people have been realizing that the larger or softer pads hardly apply to most builds these days and the trend has been to regard them as protection for the gearbox shell instead of the piston rack. Back when most builds stuck to ~20-25 RPS, you could get away with a big soft pad esp. with weaker springs and plastic piston heads.
Sorbo pads are antiquated. Just use a faucet washer and radius the gb with a 3mm cylindrical file. If you do anything that reduces cylinder volume in any way correct between the piston and piston head. You also want to test it and shave it down accordingly.
Love this kind of videos, talking about your knowledge about AEG. Is fantàstic to learn with you Want to see more and more like this! Thank you! From Ibiza!
Would you consider writing an eBook/doing a video series on everything upgrade/tuning related... I'd be willing to pay for a docutment written by yourself on the different techniques etc what to use and when etc and why to upgrade what and what parts you use regularly and what you avoid.
Great video. It amazes me with what people are fine with doing to a paying customer's gun. Reminds me of when I tried getting my Mp5 fixed years ago. Not only did they not fix the gun for $160, but there was some instant noodle in my gearbox when I went to actually fix it. That place closed down a few years later. Also, I've been using hard faucet washers for AoE when needed. They don't seem to compress like sorbo, but they have just enough give to dampen the impact. Have you ever had issues with a site saying a gun you built is too hot, but your chrono says it's fine?
never have any problems with my VFC HK416 A5 only once with one mag relicing all its gas but after that it worked again i have that gun for now over 2 years
well actually a full stroke at the same port will still give more fps as the head travels at a faster velocity (since the spring is compressed more).. not sure how much but probs after the port if u start cutting teeth past that, you will probs lose 15 to 20 fps per teeth
Not gonna lie sir... You need to write a book, a guide for future generations of tech. These days "tech" know s^@! about some spec and repair. Im completely serious about writing a book, and extending it with DVD with short video lessons. I know its sounds stupid, but I do not see any kind of Q&A guidebooks or tutorials on level liek your videos. Ok enough of this sugar. Awesome as always!
I never liked sorbo pads as a way to correct AOE simply because in my own collection of AEGs no two have ever needed the same amount of adjustment. You wouldn't shim a gear set by throwing a 0.3mm shim at everything so why would you correct AOE by throwing a 3mm sorbo pad (or whatever the current trend is) at everything.
maybe the bend in the racks is also from manufacturing and hardening. Due to different thermal mass on teeth and flat side there can be tensions which warp the material. I'm curious if the bend is only on used ones (like your theory) or also on new racks
purpose of cylinder hole is to allow piston to speed up before compression start. so, it will make same spring rating with somewhat relevant output (such as, M120 spring will output around 400 fps regardless barrel length as long as 5he cylinder hole matched). if you short stroke it up to the cylinder hole, you will loose this purpose. you will need higher rated spring to achieve the target fps (such as, M130 or up to get 400 fps) and making the spring rating naming convention irrelevant. also, that teeth removal, PME prevention, etc will make it too complex and expensive for airsoft manufacturer to consider. this will add unnecessary complexity for already complex airsoft system that could elegantly solved by varying the hole of the cylinder. i agree with you, this will waste energy since when speeding up, some energy will lost due to friction and air compression lost. but this hole in cylinder is the most efficient way on manufacturing perspective to accomplish different barrel length since you only need to produce different cylinder instead of varying the teeth of piston and sector gear
Nothing I disagree with here & I've covered it all before but the first part, allowing the piston to speed up & power drops? Not entirely true. If that were the case, full cylinders would never be used. I also think you started typing before watching the whole video as you're just saying what I did in thr video.
I would like to add that here are more considerations as to how to adjust AOE "properly". If the gear has a surface hardening treatment, then it has a higher resistance to deformation on the surface such that it could handle the more angled tooth engagement. I'm not certain on the typcial "SHS" gears, but I would guess that it is in fact better for them to engage with as large a surface area as possible to spread the force out and also exert less upward force on the piston to promote a smoother reciprocation of the piston. As in anything in an AEG, there's a number of things to consider and there's so many different parts and materials that don't have readily available data sheets or accurate information listed for them that it's near impossible to know exactly the best approach. This is why the guys at Airsoft Mutation in Canada are killing it. Parts development with transparency on specs and processes.
hi,need some advice)) so...full cilinder,gears 16:1,motor high torgue, battery 11:1v, barrel 31.5cm(6.02) spring guarder m110,bbs 0.25,fps 347,rps 26 how i understand from video i need to remove tooths from release side ? because of the barrel length
Urmm but changing springs should give you roughly the same tension on the system? I mean, if the output is the same, the potential energy should be the same.... right?
@@jimbo4101 I mean I agree that it is more efficient, but that is probably because the system makes better use of the motor's torque, nothing to do with reducing stress on the system
@@NegativeAirsoftTech I know what you're about in your videos, I really enjoy your content and I have great respect for your craftsmanship. 😄 But coming from a mechanical and engineering background, hearing you talk about the springs was like edging an aneurysm... 😂
Just wanna say the reason someone removed the thin secondary o-ring on the maxx piston head is because it generates too much friction in the maxx cylinder. I know cause i have the same issue in my own gun. No idea why maxx added it, perhaps on some different brands of cylinders it helps with compression.
@@NegativeAirsoftTech That's Maxx in a nutshell, always have to do things "better". Like putting 2 o-rings on a piston head. I'll give credit where it's due, their adjustable nozzle was the only nozzle that could reliably fix my vfc scar h. Can't get rid of the midcap syndrome though. Do you happen to have any experience with that on that gun?
Have you ever explained why cylinder volume is important to match with barrel length? That's something I think a lot of people don't understand. Do all this work to wonder why their accuracy has gone to shit, not realizing it is because they've got too much excess air exiting the barrel and giving random nudges to the BB after the barrel.
@@BionicBurke in general excess air is a good thing. You can run heavier weights to counter but need a decent hop system to be able to hop the heavy weights I'm general I run 2.3:1 ish
For the life of me I can not remember what video of yours talks about barrel length vs rate of fire . I'm trying to tighten up my lmg and use .32's with better grouping. As of now I have a long 6.03 stainless barrel in it and it has made it very inaccurate. I know it has something to do with volume and the amount of BBs in the barrel and it not filling the cylinder.
Inshort steoke if even with a m100 spring im still shooting hot. Of course that wouldnt be so much of a problem if it was a dmr. Seriously i bought what was supposed to be a cqb m4 and i made sure to click the low fps version which is 310fps. Medium was 360 and high was 410and it came to me shooting 420 and when i put the Prometheus purple in 425. You don't just shoot that hot on a m100 ootb out of a sbr which has only a 6.04 barrel and i know its a m100 because i installed a m100 hoping for that sub 350 fps mark and still 425fps.
You highlight the difference between a guy who's installed a new piston that one time and an actual tec. The majority of people on reddit fall into the former...
@@NegativeAirsoftTech Thought I had feeding issues cuz of the short stroke Found out it was my Gate EON gearbox that cracked at the cylinder head mounting pin and the metal piece blocked the tapped plate. Good job with that one Gate🙃
You probably won't see this but I'm in australia we're all our techs have listened to the so called tech experts and I had bad experience so I started do my own tech work and your videos have shown and explained about stuff that I have noticed with mine and other blasters from so called techs here having all the same problems and they don't care about fixing or solving keep up the good videos and helping man, would love know a good grease to use man
I have noticed that you have made some videos that Warhead is publishing as theirs. I presume you have some relationship with the company. Recently I´ve exchanged some emails with warhead and their emails were signed by "Luke". I was wondering; Have I been talking to you without knowing? That would be funny ^_^
Great information, that first gun was ugly as sin. Im not a fan of the drop stocks and massive paintballer triggers. Those people can go back to paintballing.
Not my fault its not long enough to be just called "stroking"
Been using your knowledge for a high speed gel blaster and I swear you're the best on UA-cam!
This clarified a lot of things that were still confusing me about short stroking. Thanks for explaining it. I'm definitely going to think about it differently.
Good video, lot's of great information. You have quite a wealth of knowledge, and much of the principles you discuss can be applied to other things outside of airsoft. This is one of the reasons I like your videos so much. Keep up the good work.
Not exactly an accurate explanation of the effects of short stroking but reasons for doing it are well enough. Lots of complex physical and electrical concepts at play there. Appreciate your thoughtfulness for the customer and each individual circumstance. So many techs just like to rinse and repeat. Never challenging themselves or learning to adapt to players' unique preferences.
Cheers Luke.
P.S. I spotted that black cylinder head early on in the video and glad to say I've been using the same ones! Great little things for the price and gives the machines a good balance of reliability and consistency.
Do you know what brand they are?
Main reason for my short stroking, normally just 2, is to help increase the cycle speed and put less stress on the spring guide and piston when they get mashed together. Helps with longevity and acoustics.
I’ve been debating short stroking my next project I learned so much from this
PTSD looking at that bloody gun. Reminds me of the old SSG-1 days. Banned blade triggers, drop stock speedsofters and loudeners.
CLICKED BECAUSE IM TRYNA BUILD A DSG AND CUZ YOUR PROFILE PICTURE TYPE O NEGATIVE IS SO GOOD
8:30 pm in Taiwan! Was happy to see an upload Lukas. Thanks!
fYI the clear ARP mags with dummy rounds work perfectly! That’s all i use with the ARP9!
Excited to watch this one, hoping he explains how it affects volume and how to use that to your advantage🤘 been short stroking for a long time and while I get how it affects volume I’m still experimenting on how to optimize it
The more volume the better mate. Quite simple really.
The more volume you have the heavier weights you can use
If im short stroking, usually go with the cyma platinum method.
Shs 13:1s
Shs sector delayer
Shs piston.
Short stroke -2 pick up and -2 release.
Runs and feeds great past 30rps on even the worst mags
What would be a good short stroke on 18.1?
@@MasadaGbTech if your going for trigger response, id say 4 tooth SS. 3 off the pickup and 1 off the release.
Or if you wanna run high rof with a sector delayer, 2 off the pickip 2 off release.
But tbh if your on 18:1s id just leave it alone unless your shooting hot. If your after trigger response you should get a ser of 13:1s and short stroke them. Youll get better results.
I was always led to believe that the whole point of a pad on the cylinder was to reduce the shock load on the gearbox but that you might need to correct AoE as a result, not the other way around. Whenever I've used those big Airlab pads I've cut them down to keep the AoE sensible.
i think a lot of people have been realizing that the larger or softer pads hardly apply to most builds these days and the trend has been to regard them as protection for the gearbox shell instead of the piston rack. Back when most builds stuck to ~20-25 RPS, you could get away with a big soft pad esp. with weaker springs and plastic piston heads.
Talking so many facts in this video, love it
Sorbo pads are antiquated. Just use a faucet washer and radius the gb with a 3mm cylindrical file. If you do anything that reduces cylinder volume in any way correct between the piston and piston head. You also want to test it and shave it down accordingly.
Love this kind of videos, talking about your knowledge about AEG. Is fantàstic to learn with you
Want to see more and more like this!
Thank you! From Ibiza!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences! I just tuned my M4 (shimmed and short-stroked by 5 teeth). Respect to you, Sir!
great video,only you provide this priceless info
This video was rly informative not many ppl covered this in depth they just take off a one or two teeth , now I know the whys thank you mister :)
Would you consider writing an eBook/doing a video series on everything upgrade/tuning related... I'd be willing to pay for a docutment written by yourself on the different techniques etc what to use and when etc and why to upgrade what and what parts you use regularly and what you avoid.
Great video. It amazes me with what people are fine with doing to a paying customer's gun. Reminds me of when I tried getting my Mp5 fixed years ago. Not only did they not fix the gun for $160, but there was some instant noodle in my gearbox when I went to actually fix it. That place closed down a few years later. Also, I've been using hard faucet washers for AoE when needed. They don't seem to compress like sorbo, but they have just enough give to dampen the impact.
Have you ever had issues with a site saying a gun you built is too hot, but your chrono says it's fine?
Yes, people who work at airsoft sites shouldn't be allowed to work at airsoft sites....
you got free noodles with your aeg and you're still complaining 🙂
@@xtairsoft 😂😂😂
@@julianking4531 it's a fair point...
VIDEO INFO: LEGENDARY
NOICE 👌👍
Much appreciated
Another reason as to why I’m super happy I run gas guns. Even with the winter fun of using gas
My AEG goes 'bbbrrrrtttttttttttttttt' all year long
You gas gun goes 'bbbrrtt t t t t oh I'm out of gas again'.
@@willspencer8694 I’m guessing you don’t run gas guns often. If they’re looked after then they run in winter just fine
never have any problems with my VFC HK416 A5 only once with one mag relicing all its gas but after that it worked again i have that gun for now over 2 years
well actually a full stroke at the same port will still give more fps as the head travels at a faster velocity (since the spring is compressed more).. not sure how much but probs after the port if u start cutting teeth past that, you will probs lose 15 to 20 fps per teeth
Not gonna lie sir... You need to write a book, a guide for future generations of tech. These days "tech" know s^@! about some spec and repair. Im completely serious about writing a book, and extending it with DVD with short video lessons. I know its sounds stupid, but I do not see any kind of Q&A guidebooks or tutorials on level liek your videos.
Ok enough of this sugar. Awesome as always!
I never liked sorbo pads as a way to correct AOE simply because in my own collection of AEGs no two have ever needed the same amount of adjustment.
You wouldn't shim a gear set by throwing a 0.3mm shim at everything so why would you correct AOE by throwing a 3mm sorbo pad (or whatever the current trend is) at everything.
Great info and explanation in this one Luke
maybe the bend in the racks is also from manufacturing and hardening. Due to different thermal mass on teeth and flat side there can be tensions which warp the material. I'm curious if the bend is only on used ones (like your theory) or also on new racks
Top vid mate, keep up the great work 👍
Great content, thank's for sharing your knowledge👍
Sir this vid is really good ty for the explanation
campness in the best possible taste
purpose of cylinder hole is to allow piston to speed up before compression start. so, it will make same spring rating with somewhat relevant output (such as, M120 spring will output around 400 fps regardless barrel length as long as 5he cylinder hole matched).
if you short stroke it up to the cylinder hole, you will loose this purpose. you will need higher rated spring to achieve the target fps (such as, M130 or up to get 400 fps) and making the spring rating naming convention irrelevant. also, that teeth removal, PME prevention, etc will make it too complex and expensive for airsoft manufacturer to consider. this will add unnecessary complexity for already complex airsoft system that could elegantly solved by varying the hole of the cylinder.
i agree with you, this will waste energy since when speeding up, some energy will lost due to friction and air compression lost. but this hole in cylinder is the most efficient way on manufacturing perspective to accomplish different barrel length since you only need to produce different cylinder instead of varying the teeth of piston and sector gear
Nothing I disagree with here & I've covered it all before but the first part, allowing the piston to speed up & power drops? Not entirely true.
If that were the case, full cylinders would never be used.
I also think you started typing before watching the whole video as you're just saying what I did in thr video.
They have a name for alternative medicine that works. It's called medicine and it's available in a fully regulated form at a pharmacy near you.
I would like to add that here are more considerations as to how to adjust AOE "properly". If the gear has a surface hardening treatment, then it has a higher resistance to deformation on the surface such that it could handle the more angled tooth engagement. I'm not certain on the typcial "SHS" gears, but I would guess that it is in fact better for them to engage with as large a surface area as possible to spread the force out and also exert less upward force on the piston to promote a smoother reciprocation of the piston.
As in anything in an AEG, there's a number of things to consider and there's so many different parts and materials that don't have readily available data sheets or accurate information listed for them that it's near impossible to know exactly the best approach. This is why the guys at Airsoft Mutation in Canada are killing it. Parts development with transparency on specs and processes.
Gotta think outside the box.
hi,need some advice)) so...full cilinder,gears 16:1,motor high torgue, battery 11:1v, barrel 31.5cm(6.02) spring guarder m110,bbs 0.25,fps 347,rps 26 how i understand from video i need to remove tooths from release side ? because of the barrel length
You get some quality crap coming in to you 😂 sitting here doing a G33 and laughing at this
This is informative but it scares me a little. I just want to upgrade my RDB17....
Your super special racks look a little XT'ish 😉 I'm off to listen to "Star Fleet" for some May and Van Halen.
Body is... kinda, I even said it in the video, I rip the racks out for others & use what's best suited.
What is the name of the orange cylinder head pad? I can't seem to find them from my local stores.
Urmm but changing springs should give you roughly the same tension on the system? I mean, if the output is the same, the potential energy should be the same.... right?
I was thinking that exact same thing. You can't bend the laws of physics, no matter how good a tech you are...
@@jimbo4101 I mean I agree that it is more efficient, but that is probably because the system makes better use of the motor's torque, nothing to do with reducing stress on the system
@@jimbo4101 1. Read my channel description.
2. Think coils
@@NegativeAirsoftTech I know what you're about in your videos, I really enjoy your content and I have great respect for your craftsmanship. 😄 But coming from a mechanical and engineering background, hearing you talk about the springs was like edging an aneurysm... 😂
A poem for you.
Where can I get that trigger and drop stock from for an m4 type and quick change spring..
Didn't think it existed?
Just wanna say the reason someone removed the thin secondary o-ring on the maxx piston head is because it generates too much friction in the maxx cylinder. I know cause i have the same issue in my own gun. No idea why maxx added it, perhaps on some different brands of cylinders it helps with compression.
Just not theirs.
@@NegativeAirsoftTech That's Maxx in a nutshell, always have to do things "better". Like putting 2 o-rings on a piston head. I'll give credit where it's due, their adjustable nozzle was the only nozzle that could reliably fix my vfc scar h. Can't get rid of the midcap syndrome though. Do you happen to have any experience with that on that gun?
@@Resmarax do you hate o-rings?
If you're increasing the spring power after after removing teeth, aren't those opposite tunings? you're re-increasing strain after reducing it.
No, it's usually done to avoid lock up on high speed builds, also increases response time.
Never heard an instrumental Static-X track before
A badgers bollock 😂😂😂
Have you ever explained why cylinder volume is important to match with barrel length? That's something I think a lot of people don't understand. Do all this work to wonder why their accuracy has gone to shit, not realizing it is because they've got too much excess air exiting the barrel and giving random nudges to the BB after the barrel.
Nope, because there are too many variances.
Long barrel, light ammo, short barrel heavy anmo etc etc etc
Over voluming for the win. You just run heavier weights to counter.
@@willspencer8694 Some people enjoy scatter guns instead of laser beams I guess.
@@BionicBurke in general excess air is a good thing. You can run heavier weights to counter but need a decent hop system to be able to hop the heavy weights
I'm general I run 2.3:1 ish
For the life of me I can not remember what video of yours talks about barrel length vs rate of fire . I'm trying to tighten up my lmg and use .32's with better grouping. As of now I have a long 6.03 stainless barrel in it and it has made it very inaccurate. I know it has something to do with volume and the amount of BBs in the barrel and it not filling the cylinder.
The one that I was talking bollocks in to annoy a group of speedi bois?
Stroke it to the left . Stroke it to the right. ...😅
Still trying to figure out what the deliberate lie was ???
hi, welcome to my first go with my new dremel hah
Arp9 stock is the APS Pdw stock
airsoft and static x is a good mix
I run a ARP, warhead M, 13/1 gear (ss by 4 tooth), 120 spring, perun mosfet ,,, shs internals (nothing fancy)..
Works lovely
FPS 349 (on .2)
ROF 38
Fuck's sake you make me want to listen to Dope and Static X
How to get sector gear balanced after this procedure?
Inshort steoke if even with a m100 spring im still shooting hot. Of course that wouldnt be so much of a problem if it was a dmr. Seriously i bought what was supposed to be a cqb m4 and i made sure to click the low fps version which is 310fps. Medium was 360 and high was 410and it came to me shooting 420 and when i put the Prometheus purple in 425. You don't just shoot that hot on a m100 ootb out of a sbr which has only a 6.04 barrel and i know its a m100 because i installed a m100 hoping for that sub 350 fps mark and still 425fps.
I've been short stroking for 33 years... :(
Bum sausage
so since i dont wana test 7 cylinders etc should i just send my aeg to a tech? and if the money to do that is the same as hpa shouldnt i just hpa lol
Where’s the LAMB SAUSE!!!
Sauce*
so if i semi only then i shouldnt use by 11.1 titan i should switch to 7.4v?
That there’s fighting talk about Brian May.
Django Rinhardt, Dimebag, Mick Thompson, Lindsey Buckingham, Carlos Santana, Jennifer Batten....
@@NegativeAirsoftTech I’ve never heard of any of them 😂
@@MakalaureKanafinwe exactly, like why you must correct with a sorbo pad on every build... lack of variation in your brain.
@@MakalaureKanafinwe ua-cam.com/video/6xA-j5Llnmo/v-deo.html
You highlight the difference between a guy who's installed a new piston that one time and an actual tec. The majority of people on reddit fall into the former...
I have SHS13:1 and removed 3 teeth on pick up side and 1 on release side, did i f**k it up?
Unlikely
@@NegativeAirsoftTech Thought I had feeding issues cuz of the short stroke
Found out it was my Gate EON gearbox that cracked at the cylinder head mounting pin and the metal piece blocked the tapped plate. Good job with that one Gate🙃
You probably won't see this but I'm in australia we're all our techs have listened to the so called tech experts and I had bad experience so I started do my own tech work and your videos have shown and explained about stuff that I have noticed with mine and other blasters from so called techs here having all the same problems and they don't care about fixing or solving keep up the good videos and helping man, would love know a good grease to use man
I see all.
I get nothing but fuck feedback from gel blaster & airsoft techs out there.
Would it be good to take 1 tooth from both sides ?
why short stroke? because a long stroke hurts my fucking arm.
I have noticed that you have made some videos that Warhead is publishing as theirs. I presume you have some relationship with the company. Recently I´ve exchanged some emails with warhead and their emails were signed by "Luke". I was wondering; Have I been talking to you without knowing? That would be funny ^_^
Ask him...
@@NegativeAirsoftTech LOL. Ok. It was just curiosity. I should have thought about the probability of getting a serious answer to my question.
5:30 you want a flexible extension. Fnar.
What the fkin attrocity is that trigger/trigger guard (and buffer tube)? Geez, my eyes bleed from seeing those things
So how was the arp9 epm?
Good actually
Static-X :D
Great information, that first gun was ugly as sin. Im not a fan of the drop stocks and massive paintballer triggers. Those people can go back to paintballing.
Egg
Why do ye cut off gear teeth pal? cheers
I spoke too soon haha I should have watched more my bad
@@markobrien2241 there's a video on it somewhere 🤣
if you AOE correct you won't get PME
Not true
ugliest gun g&g made ever