Watchmaker here, welcome to the world of horology! I hope you find it as interesting and enjoyable as I do, if there’s one piece of advice I can offer it is that you should never stop learning. No matter how many years you have at the bench, there is always more to be learned. I am not trying to discourage you, I see it as a good thing, because as long as your desire to grow and learn exists, you know that the well of knowledge will never run dry. One of the best watchmakers I know says that it takes at least 15 years to become what he calls a ‘useful’ watchmaker. 2 years of school, 3-4 years of practice learning the basics of aftersales service of watches for which spare parts are available. Plenty of people stop here and that’s fine, but if you’re inclined to get into complications like repeaters and antique watches in need of restoration, you must now get into the realm of making parts yourself. Here begins another cycle of accumulating tools, books, equipment and hopefully a mentor. Once you have the tools and the skills to use them, you’re approaching the 15 year mark. Some thoughts regarding this video, sorry they’re not better organised. You almost certainly know this already, but your Elgin movement is missing one of the screws that retains the 4th wheel jewel setting. Your workbench is a great start, it looks to be adjustable height (?) which is very helpful. You don’t necessarily have to buy a full size watchmaker’s bench to upgrade, either. Horotec (and others) sell a mini bench that sits on top of a table and provides the ergonomic benefits of a full size watchmaker’s bench, provided your table is at the right height. It is Horotec MSA24.071 It isn’t cheap, but is a lot less than a new watchmaker’s bench. George Daniels’ classic book “Watchmaking” contains plans to build one of these yourself, if you have some basic DIY skills. The suppliers you mentioned are great, and another good supplier in the US is Otto Frei. CousinsUK are in the UK but attract a lot of business for some items from the US. The presto tool you showed is ok for removing watch hands, but it is not the same as the presto tool for removing cannon pinions, which lacks the centre post your tool has. There are several different presto tools for different tasks that look similar but aren’t interchangeable. Whilst you can often use a presto tool to remove watch hands, most watchmakers I know (myself included) prefer to use hand levers (and a dial protector sheet of some kind). Levers give you a lot more control, and a good selection will cope with all the different hands and dials (flat and curved dials) you will encounter. Some of the Chinese sets of hand levers are very good now, especially if you’re willing to polish and refinish any minor imperfections. They’re much much cheaper than Horotec or Bergeon levers. A friend who is learning as a hobby showed me a Chinese hand lever set he bought a few months ago, wanting to know if they were suitable and if any refinishing was necessary. They were good to go and I was very impressed when I learned how much he paid. A staking set and roller removal tools are probably the next tools you will need. A timegrapher is important too, so you can measure the performance of your work. The Chinese made Weishi 1000 and 1900 are excellent value for money, and I think the 1900 is worth the extra money. The phone based timing apps aren’t up to the job, but there is an excellent computer based system (superior to the Chinese Weishi) by Delph Electronics that provides almost all the functionality of a Swiss Witschi timegrapher that costs thousands of dollars for significantly less money. You have a great microscope. If you don’t have a Barlow lens for it yet, you will want one. It increases the focal length and that gives you much more working space between the microscope and the workpiece. AmScope sell them. The strength is a matter of personal preference, but I recommend 0.5x A 10x loupe is worth getting. Otto Frei sell an excellent 10x loupe by bausch and lomb. Cheap loupes, particularly at higher magnification like 10x and up aren’t worth buying in my experience. I don’t know what brand tweezers you have, but it’s worth buying quality tweezers. Dumont are excellent, Horotec and Bergeon are great too. Brass tweezers are far less likely to scratch watch parts, but do need to be dressed more often because they are so soft. I find bronze tweezers to be an excellent compromise for general purpose tweezers. Bronze tweezers are soften than steel so they don’t leave scratches either, but don’t need to be dressed as often as brass. The only downside is that they’re more expensive. There’s no right or wrong answer here, I know watchmakers who prefer bronze and others who prefer brass. You mentioned practicing hairspring work, so will want some very fine steel tweezers for that. General purpose watchmaking tweezers aren’t suitable. Once you have some fine hairspring tweezers, reserve them for hairspring work only. Another useful tool for hairspring work is made from a sewing needle. Stone off the tip of the eye end of the needle and smooth the tips to make a tiny two pronged fork. Mount the fork in a wooden handle. You want to make two of these in any size you make. The prongs of the fork are used to straddle the hairspring while another fork or fine tweezers perform manipulations. Once you start working on watches with centre seconds hands, you’ll want movement holders that can support the centre wheel when you’re pressing on the seconds hand, otherwise you can cause damage to both the hands and the movement. Another useful tool for finding steel watch parts on the ground is a strong magnet. There are some wand shaped ones that are great for ‘sweeping’ the floor. Fitting a raised edge to your table, and a gentle touch with well dressed tweezers will help prevent parts from flying away. Please don’t use the caseback wrench you showed. Squishy balls are great when they work. When they don’t, you’re likely to damage the watch case, gouging scratches into the back if you use these small adjustable handheld case wrenches. As you’ll find out once you start servicing other people’s watches, countless watches out there are already carry scars from these tools. There is a Chinese copy of the Bergeon 5700 case opener. It isn’t expensive and performs very well. Regarding watch lubricants, I haven’t tried or seen any feedback regarding the kit of oils and grease you bought, but all of the cheaper lubricants out of China and India that do know about aren’t fit for purpose. I strongly recommend you buy the Moebius and other name brand products from the printed list you showed. You certainly don’t need everything from that list, though. Lubricant might seem very expensive, but so little is used per movement that the cost per watch is very low. Automatic oilers are great in a production environment where you’re working on the same movement repeatedly. If you’re working on a wide variety of watches, hand oiling is better and it will help you learn to oil correctly. Learning to gather the right amount of oil and to deposit it correctly isn’t easy, but it often distinguishes a quality professional service from a less experienced amateur. If you’re oiling capped jewels without a shock system, either oil them before assembly, or oil them through the pivot hole. No need for an automatic oiler here either. Those ST36 movements are excellent learning aids, and are capable of great performance for their price. Once you have a timegrapher, a great test of your ability as a beginner is to be able to take a new, untouched ST36, put it on the timegrapher, disassemble it, clean it, reassemble and oil it and then put it back on the timegrapher. Once you can reliably see a measurable improvement after servicing a new ST36, you’re doing well. It’s a great yardstick. One very useful and inexpensive consumable, especially if you’re going to be cleaning by hand are Eveflex sticks. They are mini rubber silicone pin polishers. Get the green ones, unmounted in 3mm diameter or greater. To get pivots super clean and shiny, you poke the pivot into the tip of the stick and turn the stick back and forth several times. Once the end of the stick is worn out, cut off 5mm and you can use it again. Pin vices are very useful in watchmaking and it’s worth having several sizes. They’re not helpful for straightening pivots, though. It has been mentioned already in the comments, but I encourage you to check out Alex Hamilton’s UA-cam channel “Watch Repair Tutorials”. I also recommend the Chronoglide UA-cam channel and JD Richard. Please be aware that there are other good watchmaking UA-cam channels, but there are also many that are riddled with bad techniques. It can be hard to sort the wheat from the chaff as a beginner. All the best on your watchmaking journey. If I can ever be of assistance, just let me know.
Your comments are beyond awesome. I'll print them out and organize them into monthly and weekly goals for purchasing etc. I'm worried that I will forget some good advice because there is so much to learn -- how do you keep all this information in your head?!? There's so much. I guess for now I can cut out some of your paragraphs and paste them into my Moleskine. I will take all of your advice to heart. If you are ever in Seattle, I'd like the honor of rewarding you with a cup of coffee or a lunch. One thing I will say now is, you're so right about learning. When I landed on watchmaking for my 3rd career, I was briefly saddened by realizing how much I would never get to do because of my age... If you're starting out at 24, it's a much different deal. Practically speaking, will I still be active when I'm 95? Possibly yeahhhhhhhh but c'mon let's get real. BUT I quickly got over that. The salient thing is to grab onto life with both hands and Always. Be. Learning. It's the journey and not the destination where all the value is. I find myself so pumped by learning new things each week, and feeling accomplishment when I see the balance wheel turning on its own. It's a rush. :-) Take care!
@@Oldguyponderingacareerch-ip9tf I’m glad my comments were helpful and really appreciate the offer of coffee and lunch. I live in Melbourne, Australia, but if life ever takes me to Seattle, or you to Melbourne, then it would be great to catch up! That rush you described of seeing a balance wheel take off never grows old. Even with many years of experience, there’s something special about seeing the movement spring to life, especially if it was a non-runner to begin with. There’s also something very rewarding in getting a watch to run well. A lot of hobbiests and even some that call themselves professionals are content to get a watch ticking. The so-called professionals will return a watch to a client that runs, but loses or gains minutes per day and blame it on the age of the watch and other imaginary factors. As rewarding as it is, getting a watch to run is only a part of the job. The key is to get the watch running well, with strong amplitude and accurate timekeeping across positions. The American railroad grade pocket watches are precision instruments, and can be returned to run within factory specifications, which exceed modern COSC chronometer standards. To service and adjust one back within original factory specifications, keeping time within a few seconds per week is so satisfying. When you realise that watch with a rate of +2 (gaining 2 seconds a day) represents an error of only 0.002%, it is incredible (to me at least) that these antique mechanical marvels are even capable of that! You seem to have an excellent outlook and attitude to be a watchmaker. There are moments when things can seem very difficult and frustrating, but with the right attitude and temperament they just become learning opportunities. Hold yourself to high standards and stick at it and you WILL succeed. That you might not be able to follow this road as far as a 24yo might doesn’t matter at all. Watchmaking isn’t my first career, although I’ve been fascinated by watches since I was very young. There are very talented and successful watchmakers who started out somewhere between 40 and upwards of 60 years old. Kalle Slaap who runs the Chronoglide UA-cam channel and a very successful watch restoration business in the Netherlands turned to watchmaking as a second career. He’s well ahead of peers his age who started young, purely because of his enthusiasm and love of horology. He is at the point of being able to build a high end watch out of metal bar stock and has the machinery to do it. The only parts he would need to buy are the mainspring, jewels, hairspring and the crystal. He has a lot of excellent videos, including some about becoming a watchmaker. He rightly says that it’s never too late to start. It isn’t uncommon for watchmakers who enjoy their work to remain at the bench well into their 80s and beyond. As long as your fine motor skills aren’t badly compromised and your vision remains intact enough to use a microscope, you can continue. I know several watchmakers here in Melbourne who have officially retired, but still work from home at their own pace, for the sheer pleasure of it. If you look up Mr. Georges Dubois, he’s a Swiss watchmaker, who has worked for both Rolex and Patek Phillipe and is still very much active, enthusiastic and at the bench at 103! There is some great footage of him on UA-cam. When you ran through all your purchases so far, I noticed that you didn’t mention buying any books. Watchmaking books with quality content don’t come cheaply most of the time, but they are worth every dime. “Watchmaking” by George Daniels is a classic. Anything by Hans Jendritzki is excellent but some quite advanced. The books by Archie Perkins are gold, too. I’ll send you an email with a few other tips in the next day or so - I prefer to share via UA-cam comments and online forums because other people can also benefit from reading, but the inability to share links and other quirks of the UA-cam censorship algorithm make it difficult to provide certain information here.
You are an awesome individual and I hope we can someday meet. Thank you so much for the support and advice. I sometimes read about people who retire and don't know what to do with themselves and are bored. I'm like, WHAT? There aren't enough hours in the day! I feel busier now then when I had a 9 - 6 job!!
@@Oldguyponderingacareerch-ip9tf You’re most welcome. It wasn’t that long ago that watchmaking knowledge was jealously guarded, the common English language texts riddled with bad practices and it has undoubtedly been toxic and detrimental to the profession as a whole. The first talented professional watchmakers who dared to talk about or share videos of anything but the very basics online were ostracised by their peers and treated with contempt, as if they were somehow betraying secrets. Part of it was just jealously guarding knowledge that people felt they earned or owned, some was motivated by poorly skilled watchmakers who feared a more informed customer base. The fact is that there is more work out there than there are skilled watchmakers to do it, and only a small percentage of the watchmakers who retire or die every year are being replaced. Philippe Dufour, one of the most talented living independent watchmakers put it very poignantly when he said that if watchmaking knowledge isn’t recorded and shared, it is like a page from the “Encyclopedia of Watchmaking” is lost forever when an old watchmaker dies. There are still those who jealously guard their knowledge, but the dam walls have well and truly broken, knowledge is finally being shared far more freely and efforts being made to preserve rare niche skills before they are lost forever. I’m happy to share what I know with anyone who is interested, and as this attitude becomes more common, watchmaking as a whole benefits greatly as a result. Any small part that I can play in that respect is worthwhile. I also understand how challenging it is to get started, with a mind boggling number of tools, ranging from essential tools through to completely useless tools, there’s conflicting information and it can get overwhelming if you don’t have the benefit of people with more experience. I was lucky enough to have people who helped to point me in the right direction, and it’s a pleasure to do the same for others. I also find that the best way to learn, retain and really understand things is to be able to teach/explain them to others. So helping others has the bonus of being directly beneficial to me, and I enjoy it, too.
This is the first of your videos I found. I have watched your second video, but not your first yet. I was a little surprised at first you purchased a new watch to practice with instead of an old watch that looked like it just needed a cleaning. Then I figured you began your journey with little previous exposure, and it made sense. I hope you are having fun learning. This is something I bumbled and stumbled through off and on over the past 40 years, I've picked up tools mostly used over the years as well as a few watches (not sure how many). Then, about 5 years ago, I discovered youtube watch repair videos. And I've learned a lot from them. I'm trying to make room it set up my bench and tools so I can resume my tinkering using what I've been learning. I hope to learn from your videos as well.
If you have 40 years of experience I doubt you'll learn anything from me!!! The tl;dr is, I was laid off from my software job in January. I executed a traditional full-time job search and ran into a brick wall. IMHO it was rank ageism. That led to a period of introspection where I wondered, What do I do with my life now? With the support of good friends plus two self-assessment books and some online assessments, I uncovered three possible alternative careers. I settled on watchmaking. So far, I love it. And I wish I had "retired" five years earlier. I'm enrolled in night-school courses now and hope to start full-time watchmaker education (a 2-year program) in September. We shall see what happens! I love the connection with the past, the intracacies, the way diagnosing ailments is like a murder investigation :-) , and of course all the tools/ Do you use your skills in a side-business or is it purely a hobby?
I’m shocked to see one comment on this. Just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to make such a detailed video. Subscribed and look forward to more! Glad I was recommended this randomly incase you’re wondering about analytics! Granted almost all of my content is watch related! Also happy to say I’ve watched so many videos I think I have 99% of what you listed! Best of luck
Awesome video! Just found your channel while down the research rabbit hole for tools. The information in your video is super helpful. It’s definitely helped justify my spending so far on tools lol. Seeing new and cool tools is dangerous for the wallet lol. I think your spending is quite reasonable considering the costs of watchmakers tools and equipment. As someone also embarking on the journey of learning watchmaking, I wish you success! Awesome to see people still pursuing such a beautiful craft.
Thanks! Let's justify each other's spending LOL! I could have gotten lower prices on some of what I bought, but I reach a point with some searches where I go, "aww heck I just want to pull the trigger now." What's your largest purchase? And, do you know of a good site to hunt for ultrasonic cleaners?
You will need. Staking set sometime and that’s a game changer when you do get to repair watches, and then the lathe, then the drill press, and then and then, and then it never ends buddy you will still be buying tools in ten years time but never forget it sure is healthier than smoking or drinking are shooting or skiing, it’s a warm, safe and very satisfying hobby/ career.
lololol Yeah, I get that impression. I once watched a UA-cam video that claimed all you need to get into watchmaking are screwdrivers, one tweezer, and a loupe. I was like what????!? Um, no. All you need is an architect to draw up plans for pushing out the walls of your house so you can triple your office space :-)
@Oldguyponderingacareerch-ip9tf I think that video was all you need to get started was those simple tools. To get stuff cleaned, it takes quite a bit more. I think a pair of bronze tweezers, a degauser, and a Time Grapher are are some up and coming purchases for me.
Thank you for sharing. I'm in a similar position as you are. I started with watch servicing as a hobby and my guess is I spenat around 7000 dollars on tools and consumables so far and I haven't bought a jewel press or a staking tool yet and those are pretty expensive but indispensable for getting any job done. But it sure is addicting and fun !
Unfortunately I passed up a complete staking set that looked like it was unused for $400 at an estate sale. I did get a really good safe that I needed for my regular job and a smaller cheap safe and a few odds and ends at the same sale for cheap.
Just a heads up the tackle box name is pronounced “play-no”. They are made in the town I grew up in: Plano. Great video and thank you for sharing your collection/experience. It’s all very helpful!!!
Hi John, Welcome to the watchmaker’s journey. I’ve watched several of your videos and I see we are on a similar path. Former IT tech here and four years into the horological journey. BTW, One of your videos stated you still had your ears out for IT work. I formerly worked at a Seattle based company that may be of interest. Expeditors International. Great company that values experience, at least it did in the early 2000’s when I was working in their South Central division. Anyway, glad your video was blessed by the algorithm and popped up this morning. Very pertinent topics to many who are going through career/life changes. See you on the next video. Godspeed to you.
Thank you! I've heard of EI before, and never heard a bad thing about them. I'm now doing 10 -- 12 hours / week of software consulting, from one contract, which is perfect for where my head is at. If that contract were to terminate then I guess I'd be looking for another client, but I'm fine for now. I started doing these videos partly out of catharsis and partly wanting to help others who find themselves in a similar situation.
Thanks for sharing your experience so far! I’ve been into repairing and servicing for about eight years now and I still love it. You might find one or two of my own on YT useful. Over time you will find out that some of the “stuff” you’ve bought wasn’t all that useful but that’s just how it is. The only thing I’m a bit weary about are those Chinese made Swiss watch oils. Did someone recommend them to you?
I agree that purchasing lubrication from AliExpress was a risk. I did it because the price was very attractive. Having said that, I've decided to pull back from AliExpress for future purchases. I'm tired of the noise it generates. (Notifications, popups, coins, etc.). I don't like how the "companies" on it come and go. And bottom line, it doesn't feel as safe a marketplace for transactions as any of my other auction / retailer sites. Out of all of them it's the most suspicious marketplace I've bought from. Did I take too much of a risk? Was I a bit greedy for a great deal? Well the fluids are the right color :-) so I hope I didn't cross the line. But in the future... Nope, I won't do it again.
@@Oldguyponderingacareerch-ip9tflots of fake stuff on aliexpress in my line of work coins and precious metals. I assume that would include other stuff as well.
I am glad your video was in my discovery. I am hoping to start the same journey in UK at 46 years old. I am terrified 😊 looking forward to hearing your insights ❤
I have a very similar setup, except that I have more tweezers and tons of screwdrivers (because I started with cheap ones, not the best idea). I also bought a jewelers tool and a staking set on the Asian platform. And it’s just a hobby. I am really afraid to count all the costs together. 😀 Thanks for the video. It’s very helpful for beginners. 🕐⚙️🍸
@ Just a well meant advice: If you’re really planning to buy an ultrasonic cleaner, buy one that was made for watch movements. They are really expensive. Or wait if you can shoot a real watch cleaning machine on the bay or so. My first attempt of cleaning an old EB 8800 movement with a Vevor ultrasonic lead to the total destruction of the main plate and other parts. You may consult Alex from the channel „Watch Repair Tutorials“ This man knows everything about that stuff. Until you have a better method, stay with naphtha or similar. I built a primitive cleaning machine after my disaster and that works fine but the cleaning fluids are very expensive.
@ I filmed all of my failures and will definitely show them on my channel NaN The Watch Destructor one day but that will take a while. I have a day job and wasn’t in the mood for editing all the videos yet. 😀 So far the channel is empty.
A flashlight attached to your forehead is also very useful. Walls around your work area will sometimes help by preventing screws and other tiny parts that jump from your tweezers and fall to unfindable places on your floor. Patience and practice are essential. Good luck.
Yeah, I've toying with the notion of large plexiglass sheets around my workbench / desk to prevent exactly that. I'll have to noodle on this a bit. Maybe I should also clean and store away my present Persian-style carpet and instead install a solid color fabric remnant, or maybe a tight weave indoor/outdoor carpet.
FWIW, I have hardwood floors, and still loose these tiny screws and other parts no bigger than a dust grain. A strong magnet, covered with saran wrap, also is helpful at these times.
Good luck with your venture , its surprising how the progressive buildup of tools can overun a space but as seen you stepped in LARGE bro hehe . Look forward to following the updates & the ledger $$$$😄😳
Hi old guy I'm about to retire in 3 years railroad inspector. Iv been learning watch repair on u tube its been enjoyable so far, but if done more collecting tools then repair. I must have 30 watches I've got from ebay and yard sales in a box. Seems I just don't have the time. We have the same tools I thank it's going to be a good thing for a little extra $ when I retire. I don't want to invest in the microscope just yet until I'm sure. Good luck and I'm right beside you. Billy
I'm thinking of the same kind of route... I could get a job in a jewelry store or a manufacturer's service center. OR, strike out on my own. I'm unclear on the financials of a home business. Right now though, I'm focused on education, so I don't have to cross that bridge until two years from now. :-) Props to you and I wish you great success!
Thank you for uploading this video. It was enjoyable and informative. I was surprised at the price you paid for that nice selection of moebius oils. (Only $25). How sure can you be that these oils, being that you ordered from AliExpress in China, are authentic moebius? At that price, if I could know for sure that they were authentic, I would also order a set!
Ah, maybe my video wasn't clear about the oils. The oils are a repackaging of oils from larger (1oz -- 2oz) containers. Their quantities are very much less than I think what you're thinking of. Here's an eBay auction of someone selling the same thing I bought on AliExpress: www.ebay.com/itm/185849880033 Now, as to how authentic and unpolluted the repackaged oils are? Well.... that's one of the risk of buying them from a third party. The only want to be absolutely sure you're getting pure fluids would be to buy from the manufacturer, or a horological site. I acknowledge there's a risk here.
Hmm, you mean one of these: www.esslinger.com/original-ary-swiss-made-standard-loupe-eyeglass-attachment-magnifier/ ? I had decided against a glasses-loupe because there would be more glass between me and the work. I figured the resulting image could never be as sharp as it would be using only a loupe. Is this what you use, and do you find the resulting image sharp?
It depends on what you mean by, "make". Service and repair, yes. Buying a movement, refurbishing it, combining it with a case and dial and then selling it, yes. Creating a watch movement or augmenting a watch movement, that's not a primary goal only because I think the machining equipment I'd need to do that would be prohibitive. But if I could collaborate with another watchmaker on that, it would be awesome.
@@Oldguyponderingacareerch-ip9tfYou probably find it easier to buy loose movements than to buy a case to fit them due to the recycling of old gold cases. I have at least a couple dozen older lady's watch movements that I personally recycled the cases. Lady's watches of the 40's - 60's are generally not in high demand largely due to the tiny dial size. They are frequently made of gold and with the price of gold well over $2000 per oz the gold is more valuable than the watch. Often the same happens to pocket watches. On occasion I've needed to do this when the case was to worn or damaged.
Are Americans aware that the name Elgin, both the US town and the later watch firm, had maybe morphed. ? The US town was named after a Scottish tune Elgin, named after an ancient Scottish town Elgin - both with the G, as in "begin" and not "jinx" Sorry, but it grates to hear it. Just saying. lol
Ha! Thank you for that info. A friend of mine actually lives there, I'll tell him about this. And I'll remember to pronounce it correctly in the future. :-)
@@Oldguyponderingacareerch-ip9tf lol - Am Scottish obviously, and Elgin is also a Scottish town in the north. .Be interested to know how the locals pronounce the USA town name - perhaps the same way everyone says the watch name, as you. PS probably best sticking to pronouncing it as you do, or folks may get confused .
Watchmaker here, welcome to the world of horology! I hope you find it as interesting and enjoyable as I do, if there’s one piece of advice I can offer it is that you should never stop learning.
No matter how many years you have at the bench, there is always more to be learned.
I am not trying to discourage you, I see it as a good thing, because as long as your desire to grow and learn exists, you know that the well of knowledge will never run dry.
One of the best watchmakers I know says that it takes at least 15 years to become what he calls a ‘useful’ watchmaker.
2 years of school, 3-4 years of practice learning the basics of aftersales service of watches for which spare parts are available.
Plenty of people stop here and that’s fine, but if you’re inclined to get into complications like repeaters and antique watches in need of restoration, you must now get into the realm of making parts yourself.
Here begins another cycle of accumulating tools, books, equipment and hopefully a mentor. Once you have the tools and the skills to use them, you’re approaching the 15 year mark.
Some thoughts regarding this video, sorry they’re not better organised.
You almost certainly know this already, but your Elgin movement is missing one of the screws that retains the 4th wheel jewel setting.
Your workbench is a great start, it looks to be adjustable height (?) which is very helpful. You don’t necessarily have to buy a full size watchmaker’s bench to upgrade, either.
Horotec (and others) sell a mini bench that sits on top of a table and provides the ergonomic benefits of a full size watchmaker’s bench, provided your table is at the right height. It is Horotec MSA24.071
It isn’t cheap, but is a lot less than a new watchmaker’s bench. George Daniels’ classic book “Watchmaking” contains plans to build one of these yourself, if you have some basic DIY skills.
The suppliers you mentioned are great, and another good supplier in the US is Otto Frei. CousinsUK are in the UK but attract a lot of business for some items from the US.
The presto tool you showed is ok for removing watch hands, but it is not the same as the presto tool for removing cannon pinions, which lacks the centre post your tool has.
There are several different presto tools for different tasks that look similar but aren’t interchangeable.
Whilst you can often use a presto tool to remove watch hands, most watchmakers I know (myself included) prefer to use hand levers (and a dial protector sheet of some kind).
Levers give you a lot more control, and a good selection will cope with all the different hands and dials (flat and curved dials) you will encounter.
Some of the Chinese sets of hand levers are very good now, especially if you’re willing to polish and refinish any minor imperfections. They’re much much cheaper than Horotec or Bergeon levers.
A friend who is learning as a hobby showed me a Chinese hand lever set he bought a few months ago, wanting to know if they were suitable and if any refinishing was necessary. They were good to go and I was very impressed when I learned how much he paid.
A staking set and roller removal tools are probably the next tools you will need. A timegrapher is important too, so you can measure the performance of your work.
The Chinese made Weishi 1000 and 1900 are excellent value for money, and I think the 1900 is worth the extra money.
The phone based timing apps aren’t up to the job, but there is an excellent computer based system (superior to the Chinese Weishi) by Delph Electronics that provides almost all the functionality of a Swiss Witschi timegrapher that costs thousands of dollars for significantly less money.
You have a great microscope. If you don’t have a Barlow lens for it yet, you will want one. It increases the focal length and that gives you much more working space between the microscope and the workpiece. AmScope sell them. The strength is a matter of personal preference, but I recommend 0.5x
A 10x loupe is worth getting. Otto Frei sell an excellent 10x loupe by bausch and lomb. Cheap loupes, particularly at higher magnification like 10x and up aren’t worth buying in my experience.
I don’t know what brand tweezers you have, but it’s worth buying quality tweezers. Dumont are excellent, Horotec and Bergeon are great too.
Brass tweezers are far less likely to scratch watch parts, but do need to be dressed more often because they are so soft. I find bronze tweezers to be an excellent compromise for general purpose tweezers.
Bronze tweezers are soften than steel so they don’t leave scratches either, but don’t need to be dressed as often as brass. The only downside is that they’re more expensive. There’s no right or wrong answer here, I know watchmakers who prefer bronze and others who prefer brass.
You mentioned practicing hairspring work, so will want some very fine steel tweezers for that. General purpose watchmaking tweezers aren’t suitable. Once you have some fine hairspring tweezers, reserve them for hairspring work only.
Another useful tool for hairspring work is made from a sewing needle. Stone off the tip of the eye end of the needle and smooth the tips to make a tiny two pronged fork. Mount the fork in a wooden handle. You want to make two of these in any size you make. The prongs of the fork are used to straddle the hairspring while another fork or fine tweezers perform manipulations.
Once you start working on watches with centre seconds hands, you’ll want movement holders that can support the centre wheel when you’re pressing on the seconds hand, otherwise you can cause damage to both the hands and the movement.
Another useful tool for finding steel watch parts on the ground is a strong magnet. There are some wand shaped ones that are great for ‘sweeping’ the floor. Fitting a raised edge to your table, and a gentle touch with well dressed tweezers will help prevent parts from flying away.
Please don’t use the caseback wrench you showed. Squishy balls are great when they work. When they don’t, you’re likely to damage the watch case, gouging scratches into the back if you use these small adjustable handheld case wrenches.
As you’ll find out once you start servicing other people’s watches, countless watches out there are already carry scars from these tools.
There is a Chinese copy of the Bergeon 5700 case opener. It isn’t expensive and performs very well.
Regarding watch lubricants, I haven’t tried or seen any feedback regarding the kit of oils and grease you bought, but all of the cheaper lubricants out of China and India that do know about aren’t fit for purpose.
I strongly recommend you buy the Moebius and other name brand products from the printed list you showed. You certainly don’t need everything from that list, though.
Lubricant might seem very expensive, but so little is used per movement that the cost per watch is very low.
Automatic oilers are great in a production environment where you’re working on the same movement repeatedly.
If you’re working on a wide variety of watches, hand oiling is better and it will help you learn to oil correctly. Learning to gather the right amount of oil and to deposit it correctly isn’t easy, but it often distinguishes a quality professional service from a less experienced amateur.
If you’re oiling capped jewels without a shock system, either oil them before assembly, or oil them through the pivot hole. No need for an automatic oiler here either.
Those ST36 movements are excellent learning aids, and are capable of great performance for their price. Once you have a timegrapher, a great test of your ability as a beginner is to be able to take a new, untouched ST36, put it on the timegrapher, disassemble it, clean it, reassemble and oil it and then put it back on the timegrapher.
Once you can reliably see a measurable improvement after servicing a new ST36, you’re doing well. It’s a great yardstick.
One very useful and inexpensive consumable, especially if you’re going to be cleaning by hand are Eveflex sticks.
They are mini rubber silicone pin polishers. Get the green ones, unmounted in 3mm diameter or greater.
To get pivots super clean and shiny, you poke the pivot into the tip of the stick and turn the stick back and forth several times. Once the end of the stick is worn out, cut off 5mm and you can use it again.
Pin vices are very useful in watchmaking and it’s worth having several sizes. They’re not helpful for straightening pivots, though.
It has been mentioned already in the comments, but I encourage you to check out Alex Hamilton’s UA-cam channel “Watch Repair Tutorials”. I also recommend the Chronoglide UA-cam channel and JD Richard.
Please be aware that there are other good watchmaking UA-cam channels, but there are also many that are riddled with bad techniques. It can be hard to sort the wheat from the chaff as a beginner.
All the best on your watchmaking journey. If I can ever be of assistance, just let me know.
Great nuggets in your comment my friend. I’ll have to use that needle straddle technique.
Your comments are beyond awesome. I'll print them out and organize them into monthly and weekly goals for purchasing etc. I'm worried that I will forget some good advice because there is so much to learn -- how do you keep all this information in your head?!? There's so much. I guess for now I can cut out some of your paragraphs and paste them into my Moleskine.
I will take all of your advice to heart. If you are ever in Seattle, I'd like the honor of rewarding you with a cup of coffee or a lunch.
One thing I will say now is, you're so right about learning. When I landed on watchmaking for my 3rd career, I was briefly saddened by realizing how much I would never get to do because of my age... If you're starting out at 24, it's a much different deal. Practically speaking, will I still be active when I'm 95? Possibly yeahhhhhhhh but c'mon let's get real. BUT I quickly got over that. The salient thing is to grab onto life with both hands and Always. Be. Learning. It's the journey and not the destination where all the value is. I find myself so pumped by learning new things each week, and feeling accomplishment when I see the balance wheel turning on its own. It's a rush. :-)
Take care!
@@Oldguyponderingacareerch-ip9tf
I’m glad my comments were helpful and really appreciate the offer of coffee and lunch. I live in Melbourne, Australia, but if life ever takes me to Seattle, or you to Melbourne, then it would be great to catch up!
That rush you described of seeing a balance wheel take off never grows old. Even with many years of experience, there’s something special about seeing the movement spring to life, especially if it was a non-runner to begin with.
There’s also something very rewarding in getting a watch to run well.
A lot of hobbiests and even some that call themselves professionals are content to get a watch ticking. The so-called professionals will return a watch to a client that runs, but loses or gains minutes per day and blame it on the age of the watch and other imaginary factors.
As rewarding as it is, getting a watch to run is only a part of the job. The key is to get the watch running well, with strong amplitude and accurate timekeeping across positions.
The American railroad grade pocket watches are precision instruments, and can be returned to run within factory specifications, which exceed modern COSC chronometer standards.
To service and adjust one back within original factory specifications, keeping time within a few seconds per week is so satisfying.
When you realise that watch with a rate of +2 (gaining 2 seconds a day) represents an error of only 0.002%, it is incredible (to me at least) that these antique mechanical marvels are even capable of that!
You seem to have an excellent outlook and attitude to be a watchmaker. There are moments when things can seem very difficult and frustrating, but with the right attitude and temperament they just become learning opportunities. Hold yourself to high standards and stick at it and you WILL succeed.
That you might not be able to follow this road as far as a 24yo might doesn’t matter at all. Watchmaking isn’t my first career, although I’ve been fascinated by watches since I was very young.
There are very talented and successful watchmakers who started out somewhere between 40 and upwards of 60 years old. Kalle Slaap who runs the Chronoglide UA-cam channel and a very successful watch restoration business in the Netherlands turned to watchmaking as a second career. He’s well ahead of peers his age who started young, purely because of his enthusiasm and love of horology.
He is at the point of being able to build a high end watch out of metal bar stock and has the machinery to do it. The only parts he would need to buy are the mainspring, jewels, hairspring and the crystal.
He has a lot of excellent videos, including some about becoming a watchmaker. He rightly says that it’s never too late to start.
It isn’t uncommon for watchmakers who enjoy their work to remain at the bench well into their 80s and beyond. As long as your fine motor skills aren’t badly compromised and your vision remains intact enough to use a microscope, you can continue.
I know several watchmakers here in Melbourne who have officially retired, but still work from home at their own pace, for the sheer pleasure of it.
If you look up Mr. Georges Dubois, he’s a Swiss watchmaker, who has worked for both Rolex and Patek Phillipe and is still very much active, enthusiastic and at the bench at 103! There is some great footage of him on UA-cam.
When you ran through all your purchases so far, I noticed that you didn’t mention buying any books. Watchmaking books with quality content don’t come cheaply most of the time, but they are worth every dime.
“Watchmaking” by George Daniels is a classic. Anything by Hans Jendritzki is excellent but some quite advanced. The books by Archie Perkins are gold, too.
I’ll send you an email with a few other tips in the next day or so - I prefer to share via UA-cam comments and online forums because other people can also benefit from reading, but the inability to share links and other quirks of the UA-cam censorship algorithm make it difficult to provide certain information here.
You are an awesome individual and I hope we can someday meet. Thank you so much for the support and advice.
I sometimes read about people who retire and don't know what to do with themselves and are bored. I'm like, WHAT? There aren't enough hours in the day! I feel busier now then when I had a 9 - 6 job!!
@@Oldguyponderingacareerch-ip9tf You’re most welcome.
It wasn’t that long ago that watchmaking knowledge was jealously guarded, the common English language texts riddled with bad practices and it has undoubtedly been toxic and detrimental to the profession as a whole.
The first talented professional watchmakers who dared to talk about or share videos of anything but the very basics online were ostracised by their peers and treated with contempt, as if they were somehow betraying secrets.
Part of it was just jealously guarding knowledge that people felt they earned or owned, some was motivated by poorly skilled watchmakers who feared a more informed customer base.
The fact is that there is more work out there than there are skilled watchmakers to do it, and only a small percentage of the watchmakers who retire or die every year are being replaced.
Philippe Dufour, one of the most talented living independent watchmakers put it very poignantly when he said that if watchmaking knowledge isn’t recorded and shared, it is like a page from the “Encyclopedia of Watchmaking” is lost forever when an old watchmaker dies.
There are still those who jealously guard their knowledge, but the dam walls have well and truly broken, knowledge is finally being shared far more freely and efforts being made to preserve rare niche skills before they are lost forever.
I’m happy to share what I know with anyone who is interested, and as this attitude becomes more common, watchmaking as a whole benefits greatly as a result.
Any small part that I can play in that respect is worthwhile.
I also understand how challenging it is to get started, with a mind boggling number of tools, ranging from essential tools through to completely useless tools, there’s conflicting information and it can get overwhelming if you don’t have the benefit of people with more experience.
I was lucky enough to have people who helped to point me in the right direction, and it’s a pleasure to do the same for others.
I also find that the best way to learn, retain and really understand things is to be able to teach/explain them to others. So helping others has the bonus of being directly beneficial to me, and I enjoy it, too.
This is the first of your videos I found. I have watched your second video, but not your first yet. I was a little surprised at first you purchased a new watch to practice with instead of an old watch that looked like it just needed a cleaning. Then I figured you began your journey with little previous exposure, and it made sense. I hope you are having fun learning. This is something I bumbled and stumbled through off and on over the past 40 years, I've picked up tools mostly used over the years as well as a few watches (not sure how many). Then, about 5 years ago, I discovered youtube watch repair videos. And I've learned a lot from them. I'm trying to make room it set up my bench and tools so I can resume my tinkering using what I've been learning. I hope to learn from your videos as well.
If you have 40 years of experience I doubt you'll learn anything from me!!!
The tl;dr is, I was laid off from my software job in January. I executed a traditional full-time job search and ran into a brick wall. IMHO it was rank ageism. That led to a period of introspection where I wondered, What do I do with my life now? With the support of good friends plus two self-assessment books and some online assessments, I uncovered three possible alternative careers. I settled on watchmaking.
So far, I love it. And I wish I had "retired" five years earlier.
I'm enrolled in night-school courses now and hope to start full-time watchmaker education (a 2-year program) in September. We shall see what happens!
I love the connection with the past, the intracacies, the way diagnosing ailments is like a murder investigation :-) , and of course all the tools/
Do you use your skills in a side-business or is it purely a hobby?
I’m shocked to see one comment on this. Just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to make such a detailed video. Subscribed and look forward to more! Glad I was recommended this randomly incase you’re wondering about analytics! Granted almost all of my content is watch related! Also happy to say I’ve watched so many videos I think I have 99% of what you listed! Best of luck
Thank you for the kind words. I'm starting to look at hairspring tools. Oy! The balance and hairspring are a universe unto themselves!
Awesome video! Just found your channel while down the research rabbit hole for tools. The information in your video is super helpful. It’s definitely helped justify my spending so far on tools lol. Seeing new and cool tools is dangerous for the wallet lol. I think your spending is quite reasonable considering the costs of watchmakers tools and equipment. As someone also embarking on the journey of learning watchmaking, I wish you success! Awesome to see people still pursuing such a beautiful craft.
Thanks! Let's justify each other's spending LOL!
I could have gotten lower prices on some of what I bought, but I reach a point with some searches where I go, "aww heck I just want to pull the trigger now."
What's your largest purchase? And, do you know of a good site to hunt for ultrasonic cleaners?
You will need. Staking set sometime and that’s a game changer when you do get to repair watches, and then the lathe, then the drill press, and then and then, and then it never ends buddy you will still be buying tools in ten years time but never forget it sure is healthier than smoking or drinking are shooting or skiing, it’s a warm, safe and very satisfying hobby/ career.
lololol Yeah, I get that impression. I once watched a UA-cam video that claimed all you need to get into watchmaking are screwdrivers, one tweezer, and a loupe. I was like what????!? Um, no. All you need is an architect to draw up plans for pushing out the walls of your house so you can triple your office space :-)
p.s. I'm thinking of publishing an update every six months or so. Yearly would be too infrequent :-) :-(
@Oldguyponderingacareerch-ip9tf I think that video was all you need to get started was those simple tools. To get stuff cleaned, it takes quite a bit more. I think a pair of bronze tweezers, a degauser, and a Time Grapher are are some up and coming purchases for me.
Thank you for sharing. I'm in a similar position as you are. I started with watch servicing as a hobby and my guess is I spenat around 7000 dollars on tools and consumables so far and I haven't bought a jewel press or a staking tool yet and those are pretty expensive but indispensable for getting any job done. But it sure is addicting and fun !
OK, I now have a spending level to shoot for! :-) :-). Won't the missus be happy about that!
Unfortunately I passed up a complete staking set that looked like it was unused for $400 at an estate sale. I did get a really good safe that I needed for my regular job and a smaller cheap safe and a few odds and ends at the same sale for cheap.
Just a heads up the tackle box name is pronounced “play-no”. They are made in the town I grew up in: Plano. Great video and thank you for sharing your collection/experience. It’s all very helpful!!!
Thank you! I’ll pronounce it correctly from now on. It’s a *great* box for my needs.
Hi John, Welcome to the watchmaker’s journey. I’ve watched several of your videos and I see we are on a similar path. Former IT tech here and four years into the horological journey.
BTW, One of your videos stated you still had your ears out for IT work. I formerly worked at a Seattle based company that may be of interest. Expeditors International. Great company that values experience, at least it did in the early 2000’s when I was working in their South Central division. Anyway, glad your video was blessed by the algorithm and popped up this morning. Very pertinent topics to many who are going through career/life changes. See you on the next video. Godspeed to you.
Thank you! I've heard of EI before, and never heard a bad thing about them. I'm now doing 10 -- 12 hours / week of software consulting, from one contract, which is perfect for where my head is at. If that contract were to terminate then I guess I'd be looking for another client, but I'm fine for now.
I started doing these videos partly out of catharsis and partly wanting to help others who find themselves in a similar situation.
I just wandered in. Now I've subscribed. I'm looking forward to your adventures!
Thanks for subbing! Welcome!
Thanks for sharing your experience so far! I’ve been into repairing and servicing for about eight years now and I still love it. You might find one or two of my own on YT useful. Over time you will find out that some of the “stuff” you’ve bought wasn’t all that useful but that’s just how it is. The only thing I’m a bit weary about are those Chinese made Swiss watch oils. Did someone recommend them to you?
I agree that purchasing lubrication from AliExpress was a risk. I did it because the price was very attractive.
Having said that, I've decided to pull back from AliExpress for future purchases. I'm tired of the noise it generates. (Notifications, popups, coins, etc.). I don't like how the "companies" on it come and go. And bottom line, it doesn't feel as safe a marketplace for transactions as any of my other auction / retailer sites. Out of all of them it's the most suspicious marketplace I've bought from.
Did I take too much of a risk? Was I a bit greedy for a great deal? Well the fluids are the right color :-) so I hope I didn't cross the line. But in the future... Nope, I won't do it again.
@@Oldguyponderingacareerch-ip9tflots of fake stuff on aliexpress in my line of work coins and precious metals. I assume that would include other stuff as well.
I am glad your video was in my discovery. I am hoping to start the same journey in UK at 46 years old. I am terrified 😊 looking forward to hearing your insights ❤
You can do it! GO FOR IT! Grab on with both hands and dive in! (yeah I mixed metaphors there.... :-) )
If I was going to get into this, I'm not, this video would be invaluable! Well done.
Thank you!
Thank you for this generous video👍
I have a very similar setup, except that I have more tweezers and tons of screwdrivers (because I started with cheap ones, not the best idea). I also bought a jewelers tool and a staking set on the Asian platform. And it’s just a hobby. I am really afraid to count all the costs together. 😀 Thanks for the video. It’s very helpful for beginners. 🕐⚙️🍸
Thank you! My staking tool just came in. I'm now eyeing ultrasonic cleaners, but I don't know.... I will do manual cleaning for a while I think.
@ Just a well meant advice: If you’re really planning to buy an ultrasonic cleaner, buy one that was made for watch movements. They are really expensive. Or wait if you can shoot a real watch cleaning machine on the bay or so. My first attempt of cleaning an old EB 8800 movement with a Vevor ultrasonic lead to the total destruction of the main plate and other parts. You may consult Alex from the channel „Watch Repair Tutorials“ This man knows everything about that stuff. Until you have a better method, stay with naphtha or similar. I built a primitive cleaning machine after my disaster and that works fine but the cleaning fluids are very expensive.
@@NaNByZero Roger that! Advice received, understood, and appreciated!
@ I filmed all of my failures and will definitely show them on my channel NaN The Watch Destructor one day but that will take a while. I have a day job and wasn’t in the mood for editing all the videos yet. 😀 So far the channel is empty.
A flashlight attached to your forehead is also very useful. Walls around your work area will sometimes help by preventing screws and other tiny parts that jump from your tweezers and fall to unfindable places on your floor. Patience and practice are essential. Good luck.
Yeah, I've toying with the notion of large plexiglass sheets around my workbench / desk to prevent exactly that. I'll have to noodle on this a bit. Maybe I should also clean and store away my present Persian-style carpet and instead install a solid color fabric remnant, or maybe a tight weave indoor/outdoor carpet.
FWIW, I have hardwood floors, and still loose these tiny screws and other parts no bigger than a dust grain. A strong magnet, covered with saran wrap, also is helpful at these times.
Great vid! Well done getting started. And you have only just started spending on tools, it goes up and up from here🤣👍
So true! Thanks!
Good luck with your venture , its surprising how the progressive buildup of tools can overun a space but as seen you stepped in LARGE bro hehe . Look forward to following the updates & the ledger $$$$😄😳
LOL I'll keep y'all posted!
I bought a 4K tri scope camera from AliExpress for £80 which is around $100 I think. 👍
Hi old guy I'm about to retire in 3 years railroad inspector. Iv been learning watch repair on u tube its been enjoyable so far, but if done more collecting tools then repair. I must have 30 watches I've got from ebay and yard sales in a box. Seems I just don't have the time. We have the same tools I thank it's going to be a good thing for a little extra $ when I retire. I don't want to invest in the microscope just yet until I'm sure. Good luck and I'm right beside you. Billy
I'm thinking of the same kind of route... I could get a job in a jewelry store or a manufacturer's service center. OR, strike out on my own.
I'm unclear on the financials of a home business. Right now though, I'm focused on education, so I don't have to cross that bridge until two years from now. :-)
Props to you and I wish you great success!
Thank you for uploading this video. It was enjoyable and informative.
I was surprised at the price you paid for that nice selection of moebius oils. (Only $25). How sure can you be that these oils, being that you ordered from AliExpress in China, are authentic moebius? At that price, if I could know for sure that they were authentic, I would also order a set!
Ah, maybe my video wasn't clear about the oils. The oils are a repackaging of oils from larger (1oz -- 2oz) containers. Their quantities are very much less than I think what you're thinking of.
Here's an eBay auction of someone selling the same thing I bought on AliExpress: www.ebay.com/itm/185849880033
Now, as to how authentic and unpolluted the repackaged oils are? Well.... that's one of the risk of buying them from a third party. The only want to be absolutely sure you're getting pure fluids would be to buy from the manufacturer, or a horological site. I acknowledge there's a risk here.
Buy the ARY loupe
Hmm, you mean one of these: www.esslinger.com/original-ary-swiss-made-standard-loupe-eyeglass-attachment-magnifier/ ?
I had decided against a glasses-loupe because there would be more glass between me and the work. I figured the resulting image could never be as sharp as it would be using only a loupe. Is this what you use, and do you find the resulting image sharp?
Very interested to see what the microscope images look like
Hey, good luck my friend five minute just for many many years as you’ve seen in many of my videos likely
Just subscribed! :-)
Is your goal to start making your own watches, or just service and repair?
It depends on what you mean by, "make". Service and repair, yes. Buying a movement, refurbishing it, combining it with a case and dial and then selling it, yes.
Creating a watch movement or augmenting a watch movement, that's not a primary goal only because I think the machining equipment I'd need to do that would be prohibitive. But if I could collaborate with another watchmaker on that, it would be awesome.
@@Oldguyponderingacareerch-ip9tfYou probably find it easier to buy loose movements than to buy a case to fit them due to the recycling of old gold cases. I have at least a couple dozen older lady's watch movements that I personally recycled the cases. Lady's watches of the 40's - 60's are generally not in high demand largely due to the tiny dial size. They are frequently made of gold and with the price of gold well over $2000 per oz the gold is more valuable than the watch. Often the same happens to pocket watches. On occasion I've needed to do this when the case was to worn or damaged.
Are Americans aware that the name Elgin, both the US town and the later watch firm, had maybe morphed. ?
The US town was named after a Scottish tune Elgin, named after an ancient Scottish town Elgin - both with the G, as in "begin" and not "jinx"
Sorry, but it grates to hear it. Just saying. lol
Ha! Thank you for that info. A friend of mine actually lives there, I'll tell him about this. And I'll remember to pronounce it correctly in the future. :-)
@@Oldguyponderingacareerch-ip9tf lol - Am Scottish obviously, and Elgin is also a Scottish town in the north. .Be interested to know how the locals pronounce the USA town name - perhaps the same way everyone says the watch name, as you.
PS probably best sticking to pronouncing it as you do, or folks may get confused .
Hmm.. interesting & as much as i may agree , what say you to the pronounciation of " Gin & Tonic" ?
@@tedblack2415 Yes please. Make mine a double with lime.
@@palemale2501 I checked with my friend. The locals pronouce it like "begin". We Americans are so uncouth.