Great comparison side by side. It really shows the differences in build quality. I own several different M&P's and edc a Shield. In the past several months I have purchased a Canik TP9 Elite SC, because it was only 385.00 and I wanted to see what the whole Canik thing was about. Naturally that led to me having to buy a Rival Darkside (not the S). It's an amazing piece. Now I have the new Mete MC9 and it's looking like it will be retiring my Shields. Canik is at the top of it's game and starting to leave everyone behind. Awesome products and an awesome value.
No one ever mentions it but even the magazine insertion click on the Canik impresses me. My Glock has a Timney trigger, my CZ P10F has a Overwatch trigger, my Rival has a stock trigger & you are right, it's still better than the aftermarket triggers.
Thanks for taking the time for this comparision. I was comparing both to decide which to purchase. Seems to be an easy answer considering the quality of product.
As an American, l have to say Americans no longer care about about the quality of the products we produce anymore. You see this in the automotive industry as well. It hurts me to say this but it's the truth. We as a labor force and country are no longer a great world leader as we once were in anything. Very interesting and informative review and l am grateful for your efforts. I thank you. I still have hope for our future
Well, it's like all of the REAL Craftsmen are dying off. Ask me about the muzzle brake on my new Mini-14 that blew off because they had apparently taken brakes that were DRILLED for a .30 cal. and tried to TAP them for the 5.56. I explained this when I called customer service, but they probably thought I didn't know what I was talking about, and wanted me to sent the RIFLE back. NOPE. I didn't want them TOUCHING it again, not to mention the risk of shipping both ways... it was a JEWEL, otherwise! (It'll do sub-MOA 3-shot groups with its favorite ammo, Hornady Superformance Match 5.56 75 gr. BTHP : ) So they sent me another brake. Inspected it when it came in, and it was the SAME: I.D. of the "threads" (actually just a fine helical SCRATCH) was only .005" less than major thread diameter. They had a BAD BATCH, which was what I tried to tell them the FIRST time : )
I have had my competitor since is came out. Over 3000 rounds and I have had ZERO issues. I am definitely getting a Canik but the competitor is a crazy awesome pistol.
I have a Rival-s and I am getting rid of it today. Shoots great, phenomenal trigger but can’t even shoot two bill drills in a row without a malfunction. Not ammo related my Glocks eat the same ammo flawlessly. Glock>Canik
@@juxmatic2288 I ordered my Canik off Cheaper then dirt 2 weeks ago. Waited a week for them to cancel the order and they never said a damn thing as to why. No email, no call, no notification at all. I only found out because I checked the status of my order on my own. So I guess I’ll just wait for the gen 2 someday lol
I was set on getting the Smith & Wesson but have seen others having numerous problems. Your break down of the rails milled into the frame and the metal frame of the grip on the Canik is tremendous.
ONLY advantage I can see with the S&W is, if the rails ever wear too much, you can just replace the blocks. Not so on the Canik : ) Hell, maybe S&W needs to come up with some blocks with fatter rails to mitigate the excessive tolerances! PROBLEM = SOLVED! Make them oversize, and we can HAND-FIT them!
A big component of the slide play on mine was the fitments on the trigger and striker groups as they are pinned into the metal frame. On poly frames that fitment is usually snug, but not on the alloy frames. Such shimming should be done at the factory for such a marketed gun. Once I shimmed those with tabs of metal tape, it was much tighter. It's an easy fix, on par with upgrading a trigger. After 350 rounds things seemed to loosen on those fitments. Front grip piece is an easy fix, a drop of CA glue, done. The trigger transfer bar where it hits the safety "button" always need some burnishing on SW it seems. Those should get a few seconds on a burnishing wheel in production, for every model. Then take up is smooth, night and day difference Otherwise mine has been 100% reliable, with a dozen different brands/weights of ammo. SW grips really work for me, personal pref. But I did have to do some fitments there as well. Now that pin is easy and works. Before fitment, I too worried it would snap. These things S&W should have done. I have enjoyed shooting the gun. Overall I've been more accurate hand holding it than most. The Caniks trigger is great one. It was almost enough! Trigger upgrade was factored in (incld those 4 mags). I wasn't ready to buy Commblock (despite NATO alliances). I wanted to buy American. Again a personal pref that some may not bias as heavily as I do. A gun is a personal thing, on many levels. Right down to the country of manufacturing and the people making them. If Canik (how is that pronounced in turkish?) puts a factory in America, I will be standing in line for one. Till then I stick with a home team. Yours was an honest review. I hope Smith & Wesson watches it.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I would really like to know about the shimming you did. If I could fix that slop to get the gun to shoot more consistent I would consider the putting a trigger in it and keeping it. It looks like the loss I am going to take otherwise will be substantial. I also like the texture of the grips a lot. I just do not like how they went about attaching them to the gun. I love the way the gun looks and the slide lightning cuts. I wanted to love the gun but I agree with you these issues should be addressed at the factory. Too many times now days we pay money for a gun that we have to modify to make it how it should be.
@@TheFullNeilson So true, I've tweaked on every one I own it seems. Due to YT restrictions, I'm not sure how much about smithing, (which could be misconstrued as modifications), is ok to post. Indicate your preferred communication route and I can relay more details.
You may have fixed the issues in such a way Glen Har but you shouln't have to dick around like that on that level of a gun and from S&W, a company with thier lengthy history of gun making should meen that they should deliver much higher qaulity especially considering this is supposed to be a gun at a "higher than normal" level within thier product line and price point.
Yep... I have respect for the Caniks, but I've been carrying a S&W for nearly forty years, so I'll be tweaking my trigger, etc. (YEP, the trigger bar has rough shear-marks vs. the striker block AND I'm going to round over/polish the striker block itself on my SKU 13567. Can't do much about the frame rail slop, though : )
We cannot get a canik here in NY yet. Only 18 round guns available. I have the smith and Wesson and am working on that front grip myself. Do you think they went with those plastic grip and cut all the metal out to save weight? What’s the weight difference between the two guns?
Had tons of issues with my Rival-S and FTFs. Found a couple of other people who have the same issue. One person said they're getting the feed ramp / barrel re-machined. In my case, shooting norma 124gr, had a bunch of FTFs where the bullet would eat the front of the feed ramp and get jammed. Was hoping the S&W competitor would be better but obviously based on your review, it has some pretty major problems of it's own.
Same here I sold my Rival sfx-s because of these issues. I really wanted to like it I had very high hopes but it turned out to be a pain and the customer service was not great to deal with
I had already decided that a rival sfx was the only handgun on the market I was interested in purchasing, this breakdown reinforces that conclusion, and I'm not just saying "good gun for the money" either.
Also, disassemble your M&P mags before use... there are TWO potential misassembly problems: I've heard of some in which the spring was not engaged with the follower, resulting in difficulty inserting the final round. And I had one where the follower was attached BACKWARDS onto the spring, so the spring angles were reversed. Noticed it during initial inspection, so I'm not sure if it would have functioned properly, BUT, that's NOT how it's supposed to be!
I was on the waiting list to get a Rival S since they came out. Just got mine 3 days ago and it is hands down the best gun I've ever owned. And I've owned a LOT.
My brother just bought the competitor. I carry a Canik Mete SFT. I’m saving to get a CZ Shadow of some variation for comp. Canik guns are really hard to beat for value.
thank you the detail about both guns. im stall looking at purchase my next handgun. both the guns you speaking about were on my list, S&W was my number 2 of 7, it drop 7. the steel Canik still not number one but right behind Glock. the truth is i may purcshase the steel Canik it is so close to being better. thanks again.
Dude I’m happy your exposing the competitor. That thing sucks! Doesn’t even compare to the Canik Rival S! I love my Rival S. Wait till LokGrips drops that palm swells for it!
Agree that the build quality seems lower on the M&P vs the Canik, but to fault the plastic grip panels as a poor engineering choice vs and entire metal frame is kind of silly. Every other polymer framed gun has plastic for its entire mag tube and they don’t have any problems. The Canik is more of a copy if a CZ or Walther frame. Canik hit a home run and S&W hit a triple.
I don't think the s&w is a piece of crap. Canik has come a long way, and they just got better at the only thing they do which is 9mm. Canik competes in a global market, Smith & Wesson competes with other American brands and I think that makes them and a lot of American brands complacent. We just don't build products as well as we used to. An aftermarket company will get their hands on that gun and make it great, but it will also cost twice as much... What can we do
And yet the S&W isn't for sale at a reduced price anywhere and there are a bunch of them. The Canik is cheaper but you can't find the freaking thing anywhere. What is the point of a better gun if you cant even buy it. If they dropped the price a little on the S&W, I'd actually be fine with it.
You'll be sorry if you look at a cz shadow2 because you will buy it $$$. I own a cz accu shadow 2. A most fantastic gun. Super da/sa trigger. Just wish I could shoot it to its full potential. Great review. My next gun is the canik s.
Man I wish I would have seen this a week ago. Bought a plastic frame Canik rival about 3 weeks ago and a s&w competitor last week. More that disappointed in the s&w. I have another full sized m&p with a apex trigger I love. The competitor was a major let down. Probably not even going to shoot it. Just sell it. Literally everything in this video is how I felt about mine the first time I handled it. However the Canik, even being plastic, is overall fantastic. Also same, I will probably pick up a shadow 2 after the s&w is sold.
I skeptical of someone dogging a product! Does this dude have a beef with smith and wesson? I don't know his qualifications to be a judge of what good for people! This is just his opinion!
They have never sent me any firearms. From what I have seen quality wise coming from them it is unlikely I will ever own another. The last 3 I purchased all had to go back due to substantial quality control issues.
@@TheFullNeilson ==> YUP, agreed! I have the Canik and won't look back. I also look forward to getting my Align Tactical Thumb Rest for the Canik SFX Rival Dark Side!
So because you have none of the problems with yours no one else does? Did you watch the videos? You can see the problems I had for yourself. Did you read the comments? Other people are having similar problems to what I experienced. What an ignorant statement you made. I bet you do not own a Canik Rival for comparison sake either.
Sadly S&W has been going to hell on quality in all areas in the last couple or so years it would seem, I can not say anything about thier auto's because I have never owned one but their revolvers anymore are something they should be ashamed of,,,,, way too many reports of them with some pretty serious issues, and I personnaly have had issues with three of their revolvers myself one of which was a very pricey performance center gun that almost caused me to have to take legal action before they took care of the issue (and after 4 months of waiting on them to build more of the gun because the only way to fix the gun's problem was to replace it because it was built wrong from day one), Sig is another company that has been not so good in recent releases to a point, and even some other top names have not been at the top of their game in recent times,,,,, canik on the other hand has been smashing it clear out of the ballpark anymore, I bought my first Canik just about 1.5 years ago and now own 6 (was 7 but sold my TP9 SF Elite to a guy because it was my least favorite and that guys loved it but could not find one locally so I was a nice guy and sold him mine), but every one of those Canik's has been just excelent in every way even the 2 brand new MC9's, if Canik' keeps it up the way they are going the will be putting the others guys out of bussiness unless those other guys get with it and follow suit,,, Canik really does seem to listen and give customers what they want and even a bit more and they do so at a very affordable price point,,,, they got me for life that one thing is for certain because all my others are gone sold off even my Q5 steel frame match now replaced by the same Canik you have on the video because the Canik just does largely better and for about 1/3rd the $.
Great comparison side by side. It really shows the differences in build quality. I own several different M&P's and edc a Shield. In the past several months I have purchased a Canik TP9 Elite SC, because it was only 385.00 and I wanted to see what the whole Canik thing was about. Naturally that led to me having to buy a Rival Darkside (not the S). It's an amazing piece. Now I have the new Mete MC9 and it's looking like it will be retiring my Shields. Canik is at the top of it's game and starting to leave everyone behind. Awesome products and an awesome value.
No one ever mentions it but even the magazine insertion click on the Canik impresses me. My Glock has a Timney trigger, my CZ P10F has a Overwatch trigger, my Rival has a stock trigger & you are right, it's still better than the aftermarket triggers.
Thanks for taking the time for this comparision. I was comparing both to decide which to purchase. Seems to be an easy answer considering the quality of product.
WOW! I was absolutely set on getting the S&W but your review has completely changed my mind! I will in fact be getting the canik s.
As an American, l have to say Americans no longer care about about the quality of the products we produce anymore. You see this in the automotive industry as well. It hurts me to say this but it's the truth. We as a labor force and country are no longer a great world leader as we once were in anything. Very interesting and informative review and l am grateful for your efforts. I thank you. I still have hope for our future
Well, it's like all of the REAL Craftsmen are dying off.
Ask me about the muzzle brake on my new Mini-14 that blew off because they had apparently taken brakes that were DRILLED for a .30 cal. and tried to TAP them for the 5.56. I explained this when I called customer service, but they probably thought I didn't know what I was talking about, and wanted me to sent the RIFLE back. NOPE. I didn't want them TOUCHING it again, not to mention the risk of shipping both ways... it was a JEWEL, otherwise! (It'll do sub-MOA 3-shot groups with its favorite ammo, Hornady Superformance Match 5.56 75 gr. BTHP : )
So they sent me another brake. Inspected it when it came in, and it was the SAME: I.D. of the "threads" (actually just a fine helical SCRATCH) was only .005" less than major thread diameter. They had a BAD BATCH, which was what I tried to tell them the FIRST time : )
I have had my competitor since is came out. Over 3000 rounds and I have had ZERO issues. I am definitely getting a Canik but the competitor is a crazy awesome pistol.
I have a Rival-s and I am getting rid of it today. Shoots great, phenomenal trigger but can’t even shoot two bill drills in a row without a malfunction. Not ammo related my Glocks eat the same ammo flawlessly. Glock>Canik
@@juxmatic2288 I ordered my Canik off Cheaper then dirt 2 weeks ago. Waited a week for them to cancel the order and they never said a damn thing as to why. No email, no call, no notification at all. I only found out because I checked the status of my order on my own. So I guess I’ll just wait for the gen 2 someday lol
I was set on getting the Smith & Wesson but have seen others having numerous problems. Your break down of the rails milled into the frame and the metal frame of the grip on the Canik is tremendous.
Thanks
ONLY advantage I can see with the S&W is, if the rails ever wear too much, you can just replace the blocks. Not so on the Canik : )
Hell, maybe S&W needs to come up with some blocks with fatter rails to mitigate the excessive tolerances! PROBLEM = SOLVED! Make them oversize, and we can HAND-FIT them!
A big component of the slide play on mine was the fitments on the trigger and striker groups as they are pinned into the metal frame. On poly frames that fitment is usually snug, but not on the alloy frames. Such shimming should be done at the factory for such a marketed gun. Once I shimmed those with tabs of metal tape, it was much tighter. It's an easy fix, on par with upgrading a trigger. After 350 rounds things seemed to loosen on those fitments.
Front grip piece is an easy fix, a drop of CA glue, done.
The trigger transfer bar where it hits the safety "button" always need some burnishing on SW it seems. Those should get a few seconds on a burnishing wheel in production, for every model. Then take up is smooth, night and day difference
Otherwise mine has been 100% reliable, with a dozen different brands/weights of ammo. SW grips really work for me, personal pref. But I did have to do some fitments there as well. Now that pin is easy and works. Before fitment, I too worried it would snap. These things S&W should have done.
I have enjoyed shooting the gun. Overall I've been more accurate hand holding it than most.
The Caniks trigger is great one. It was almost enough! Trigger upgrade was factored in (incld those 4 mags). I wasn't ready to buy Commblock (despite NATO alliances). I wanted to buy American. Again a personal pref that some may not bias as heavily as I do. A gun is a personal thing, on many levels. Right down to the country of manufacturing and the people making them. If Canik (how is that pronounced in turkish?) puts a factory in America, I will be standing in line for one. Till then I stick with a home team.
Yours was an honest review. I hope Smith & Wesson watches it.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I would really like to know about the shimming you did. If I could fix that slop to get the gun to shoot more consistent I would consider the putting a trigger in it and keeping it. It looks like the loss I am going to take otherwise will be substantial. I also like the texture of the grips a lot. I just do not like how they went about attaching them to the gun. I love the way the gun looks and the slide lightning cuts. I wanted to love the gun but I agree with you these issues should be addressed at the factory. Too many times now days we pay money for a gun that we have to modify to make it how it should be.
@@TheFullNeilson So true, I've tweaked on every one I own it seems. Due to YT restrictions, I'm not sure how much about smithing, (which could be misconstrued as modifications), is ok to post. Indicate your preferred communication route and I can relay more details.
You may have fixed the issues in such a way Glen Har but you shouln't have to dick around like that on that level of a gun and from S&W, a company with thier lengthy history of gun making should meen that they should deliver much higher qaulity especially considering this is supposed to be a gun at a "higher than normal" level within thier product line and price point.
@@looseballs1966 Agreed, obviously. But figured I'd put it out there. Luvin the Comp now.
Yep... I have respect for the Caniks, but I've been carrying a S&W for nearly forty years, so I'll be tweaking my trigger, etc. (YEP, the trigger bar has rough shear-marks vs. the striker block AND I'm going to round over/polish the striker block itself on my SKU 13567. Can't do much about the frame rail slop, though : )
We cannot get a canik here in NY yet. Only 18 round guns available. I have the smith and Wesson and am working on that front grip myself. Do you think they went with those plastic grip and cut all the metal out to save weight? What’s the weight difference between the two guns?
Thank you for your attention to detail and your detailed review.
This was a great video. I was actually looking at both and was not sure which one was better.
Thanks for this informative video.
Great review, great information.
Great review. And you are right. Nobody else is addressing these issues. And very few demonstrate accuracy.
100% Canik is superior gun!!!! thanks for the video, I was consider s&w metal....
I couldn't agree with you more. And I am getting the Canik soon.
Had tons of issues with my Rival-S and FTFs. Found a couple of other people who have the same issue. One person said they're getting the feed ramp / barrel re-machined. In my case, shooting norma 124gr, had a bunch of FTFs where the bullet would eat the front of the feed ramp and get jammed. Was hoping the S&W competitor would be better but obviously based on your review, it has some pretty major problems of it's own.
Same here I sold my Rival sfx-s because of these issues. I really wanted to like it I had very high hopes but it turned out to be a pain and the customer service was not great to deal with
Thanks, I was gonna get the S&W till I saw this. I have a Cantik and love it. So ill definitely get the steel frame one now.
I had already decided that a rival sfx was the only handgun on the market I was interested in purchasing, this breakdown reinforces that conclusion, and I'm not just saying "good gun for the money" either.
I agree the frame's grip should of been solid without all those plastic pieces. That is crazy to me
Also, disassemble your M&P mags before use... there are TWO potential misassembly problems:
I've heard of some in which the spring was not engaged with the follower, resulting in difficulty inserting the final round. And I had one where the follower was attached BACKWARDS onto the spring, so the spring angles were reversed. Noticed it during initial inspection, so I'm not sure if it would have functioned properly, BUT, that's NOT how it's supposed to be!
Great comparison, the S&W is a piece of junk. I have a Canik Rival Darkside and CZ Shadow 2 both excellent. I'm tempted to get a Rival S as well.
Be careful! I hardly could watch. Don't break that plastic piece of s..t Smith & Wesson while disassembly/assembly :) Greets from Türkiye !!!
I was on the waiting list to get a Rival S since they came out. Just got mine 3 days ago and it is hands down the best gun I've ever owned. And I've owned a LOT.
I am glad you like it.
I have a canik rival and it's the best gun I own beautiful trigger amazing reset outstanding hand gun
My brother just bought the competitor. I carry a Canik Mete SFT. I’m saving to get a CZ Shadow of some variation for comp. Canik guns are really hard to beat for value.
I use an m&p for dry fire, but caniks for matches.
Thanks for the detailed review. Smith & Wesson “engineering “ at it’s finest.(Yes, my sarcasm card is showing)
thank you the detail about both guns. im stall looking at purchase my next handgun. both the guns you speaking about were on my list, S&W was my number 2 of 7, it drop 7. the steel Canik still not number one but right behind Glock. the truth is i may purcshase the steel Canik it is so close to being better. thanks again.
Great review
I got rid of all of caniks 😂😂😂
Dude I’m happy your exposing the competitor. That thing sucks! Doesn’t even compare to the Canik Rival S! I love my Rival S. Wait till LokGrips drops that palm swells for it!
Any problem with it, seeing some people saying it malfunctions, apparently some problem with the magazine
I bought one today hopefully it’s not a bad one
Agree that the build quality seems lower on the M&P vs the Canik, but to fault the plastic grip panels as a poor engineering choice vs and entire metal frame is kind of silly. Every other polymer framed gun has plastic for its entire mag tube and they don’t have any problems. The Canik is more of a copy if a CZ or Walther frame. Canik hit a home run and S&W hit a triple.
I don't think the s&w is a piece of crap. Canik has come a long way, and they just got better at the only thing they do which is 9mm. Canik competes in a global market, Smith & Wesson competes with other American brands and I think that makes them and a lot of American brands complacent. We just don't build products as well as we used to. An aftermarket company will get their hands on that gun and make it great, but it will also cost twice as much... What can we do
And yet the S&W isn't for sale at a reduced price anywhere and there are a bunch of them. The Canik is cheaper but you can't find the freaking thing anywhere. What is the point of a better gun if you cant even buy it. If they dropped the price a little on the S&W, I'd actually be fine with it.
No way the SW compares to the Canik
You'll be sorry if you look at a cz shadow2 because you will buy it $$$. I own a cz accu shadow 2. A most fantastic gun. Super da/sa trigger. Just wish I could shoot it to its full potential. Great review. My next gun is the canik s.
I have shot the CZ shadow 2 and a Tactical Sport. They are amazing firearms. I actually like them better than Canik or Smith and Wesson.
The M&p is a total money grab. It offers almost nothing over the polymer version.
The only negative review I could find on the Smith and Wesson Competitor.
Man I wish I would have seen this a week ago. Bought a plastic frame Canik rival about 3 weeks ago and a s&w competitor last week. More that disappointed in the s&w. I have another full sized m&p with a apex trigger I love. The competitor was a major let down. Probably not even going to shoot it. Just sell it. Literally everything in this video is how I felt about mine the first time I handled it. However the Canik, even being plastic, is overall fantastic. Also same, I will probably pick up a shadow 2 after the s&w is sold.
Shadow 2 is my favorite of the bunch.
I skeptical of someone dogging a product! Does this dude have a beef with smith and wesson? I don't know his qualifications to be a judge of what good for people! This is just his opinion!
I don't think S&W is gonna send you any new releases for a future review! 😄
They have never sent me any firearms. From what I have seen quality wise coming from them it is unlikely I will ever own another. The last 3 I purchased all had to go back due to substantial quality control issues.
@@TheFullNeilson ==> YUP, agreed! I have the Canik and won't look back. I also look forward to getting my Align Tactical Thumb Rest for the Canik SFX Rival Dark Side!
He trying to get canik to sponsor him because I have had none of the problems he speaks of
So because you have none of the problems with yours no one else does? Did you watch the videos? You can see the problems I had for yourself. Did you read the comments? Other people are having similar problems to what I experienced. What an ignorant statement you made. I bet you do not own a Canik Rival for comparison sake either.
Same. Seems to me like a product pusher lol my competitor runs FLAWLESS
Floyds aftermarket for smith is only way to go but your cheaper gun will soon be your most expensive just to make it what should have been oem .
Sadly S&W has been going to hell on quality in all areas in the last couple or so years it would seem, I can not say anything about thier auto's because I have never owned one but their revolvers anymore are something they should be ashamed of,,,,, way too many reports of them with some pretty serious issues, and I personnaly have had issues with three of their revolvers myself one of which was a very pricey performance center gun that almost caused me to have to take legal action before they took care of the issue (and after 4 months of waiting on them to build more of the gun because the only way to fix the gun's problem was to replace it because it was built wrong from day one), Sig is another company that has been not so good in recent releases to a point, and even some other top names have not been at the top of their game in recent times,,,,, canik on the other hand has been smashing it clear out of the ballpark anymore, I bought my first Canik just about 1.5 years ago and now own 6 (was 7 but sold my TP9 SF Elite to a guy because it was my least favorite and that guys loved it but could not find one locally so I was a nice guy and sold him mine), but every one of those Canik's has been just excelent in every way even the 2 brand new MC9's, if Canik' keeps it up the way they are going the will be putting the others guys out of bussiness unless those other guys get with it and follow suit,,, Canik really does seem to listen and give customers what they want and even a bit more and they do so at a very affordable price point,,,, they got me for life that one thing is for certain because all my others are gone sold off even my Q5 steel frame match now replaced by the same Canik you have on the video because the Canik just does largely better and for about 1/3rd the $.