Colin MacKay, Jim Sillars and Michael Forsyth discuss the Thatcher legacy in Scotland. Watch out for Colin MacKay showing how Margaret would dominate an interview.
1979 Scotland had 132,000 people employed in shipbuilding. 2014 there are 3,000. 1979 Scottish Tories had 22 MPs in Westminster, today there is 1 That's Thatcher's legacy summed up.
here is another summing up. there were less scots unemployed in 1990 than in 1979. while it is true that tory seats fell from 22 to 10 in thatchers time.... 10 was still better than the wipeout of `1997 which was long after she was gone..... and 10 may be poor... its still better than the 6 the snp have today. and as for scottish people voting for thatcher..... more scots voted for thatcher than the current majority snp govt has today. now on the point of ship building...... are u seriously suggesting it is in any scottish interest to keep an industry going when it has no future? and if u are saying that why has no one reopened them? who do u vote for in scotland and what exactly is their policy on shipyards? or is it just the case that its ok for any other partys to keep them closed as long as not thatcher? i fully accept that loss of jobs was hellish..... but what is your solution?
My solution? Are you serious? I'm not a politician. You are asking the wrong person. I'm pointing out to you that Thatcher's legacy is job losses and loss of Tory seats. Why the comparison with votes for Tories in 1979 compared to voted for SNP today?? What does today's SNP have to do with Thatcher? The figure for comparison is total votes for Tories in 1979 = 916,000. Votes for Tories in 1992 = 752,000. Thatcher lost votes and lost seats, that's her legacy.
kilbraur the point is that untill 1992 more than one in 5 scots was voting for thatcher. no majority but its now less than one 8th and the point that it sank had little to do with thatcher and more along the same lines that the entire tory party has failed from about 1993 onwards. and 752000 votes is not very far behind what the current majority snp got today..... so again the point is that that is not exactly the fall in votes that labour has had.... and the snp have only ever once got higher than that low thatcher vote.... and that was only after the biggest mess in history and so labour collapsed which allows the snp into govt with roughly the same numbers of votes. so yes thatcher maybe lost 200 000 scottish votes... but major lost twice that.... and labour have lost a million voters in that time.... so we have a uk lead in no small way by thatcherism.... and 25 years later no one has changed it much or indeed inspired voters. the current snp govt did not get a majority of votes either. they polled 45% of scottish votes and the independence polls have not once yet gone past 45% either. so yes not a shining thatcher victory in votes but its not being rejected either. and finally why do i ask a non politician what his solution is? well im sorry i just think that if u are clever enough to state how stupid a policy of shutting ship yards is then i just think its a bit rich to be so clever with hindsight and when asked for a solution then all of a sudden u dont want to say anything because u r not a politician.... anyone can do that. its like turning up at a car crash and saying they should have gone slower.... its not hard or difficult..... but it is a very easy safe place to be. u can look very wise and yet say nothing that u might have to defend...... if u attack thatcher or anyone.... u should really have at least an idea of some kind of solution. u dont have to be an intellectual.... but u do have to come up with a little more than lets leave it to someone else..... incase u have not noticed that is what every politician has done since thatcher..... and is that working? no! please dont take this as a personal attack. its really not meant that way. i am genuinly just asking u to think of a better way.... and if u said something i thought of as a good idea then perhaps thatcherites like me might actually agree with u and support it. so what would i do about unemployment as my solution..... it is not easy i admit.... i think my answer has to be to use things like water and wind to innovate new technology. we can easily sell water to many places over the globe and we probably could power half of europe if we really wanted to.... but that will only come if the free market is given the tax breaks and help to get there. giving small companies the help to get going is far more important than massive public spending on many things that we do not need or can afford... and thatcherism does fit into almost that entire vision. the day we stop propping up ship yards or failed banking systems and take the harder choices for the future and stop letting bad situations get worse is the day we get richer which then pays for all the great things like public spending. 30 pence in every pound goes to pay interest alone.... thats for the next 150 years. 30 p in every pound going on nothing of any value but paying for last years health service.... and u think closing ship yards was harsh.... yes it was but the problem was tackled and no longer exists and the jobs lost were regained very quickly..... why was that possible because tax cuts made it possible to get new jobs started. payed for wiuth the money that was being used to fund a ship yard that was never ever going to recover. u attack the person that fixed it and seem to think the people who allowed it to get to that stage were perfectly reasonable...... so yes.... i do ask what u would do better and if u cant or wont answer then maybe u might just think at the very least that if shes so bad then u r no better. lol... after all that im quite sure u are not as bad as i make it sound.... im sorry if i sound grumpy. have a good night even if u dont come back at my challenges.
Michael is right. Maggie should be remembered and respected in Scotland for stopping the old Labour Party and the relationship it had with the militant trade unions back in the 80s. Maybe she took things a bit too far by the end of her tenure as PM, however for the first few years she did a lot to disturb the dominant position Labour had in Scotland.
The poll tax and the perception of "stealing Scotland's oil" really hurt the Tories up in Scotland. They never built on their 1979 election victory up there - they gained seats, but come 1983 and 1987 - they lost seats again. She sort of never understood Scotland. I think if they had the Scottish Office Standing Committee up in Edinburgh after they came to power, that would have helped, and also killed off the devolution demands for later on.
I saw something wrong with the answer from dollars. He said "modern conservative party". It was neo-cons who have modern conservatism. Not thatcherites.
Do you vote no to scottish independence in 2014 yes 2001926 55% snp need give it rest. Art just as well. His Art polish channel gold mine Thomas. You help me as Tory Thatcherite scot.
Thatcherism is Dennis Thatcher yes he economic person Thomas it his policies who told Margaret Sweeney. Mrs Thatcher owes to him Dennis Thatcher yes. Art Bezrukavenko he help you Thomas that real friend.
1979 Scotland had 132,000 people employed in shipbuilding. 2014 there are 3,000.
1979 Scottish Tories had 22 MPs in Westminster, today there is 1
That's Thatcher's legacy summed up.
here is another summing up. there were less scots unemployed in 1990 than in 1979. while it is true that tory seats fell from 22 to 10 in thatchers time.... 10 was still better than the wipeout of `1997 which was long after she was gone..... and 10 may be poor... its still better than the 6 the snp have today.
and as for scottish people voting for thatcher..... more scots voted for thatcher than the current majority snp govt has today.
now on the point of ship building...... are u seriously suggesting it is in any scottish interest to keep an industry going when it has no future? and if u are saying that why has no one reopened them? who do u vote for in scotland and what exactly is their policy on shipyards?
or is it just the case that its ok for any other partys to keep them closed as long as not thatcher?
i fully accept that loss of jobs was hellish..... but what is your solution?
My solution? Are you serious? I'm not a politician. You are asking the wrong person. I'm pointing out to you that Thatcher's legacy is job losses and loss of Tory seats.
Why the comparison with votes for Tories in 1979 compared to voted for SNP today?? What does today's SNP have to do with Thatcher? The figure for comparison is total votes for Tories in 1979 = 916,000. Votes for Tories in 1992 = 752,000. Thatcher lost votes and lost seats, that's her legacy.
kilbraur the point is that untill 1992 more than one in 5 scots was voting for thatcher. no majority but its now less than one 8th and the point that it sank had little to do with thatcher and more along the same lines that the entire tory party has failed from about 1993 onwards.
and 752000 votes is not very far behind what the current majority snp got today..... so again the point is that that is not exactly the fall in votes that labour has had....
and the snp have only ever once got higher than that low thatcher vote.... and that was only after the biggest mess in history and so labour collapsed which allows the snp into govt with roughly the same numbers of votes. so yes thatcher maybe lost 200 000 scottish votes... but major lost twice that.... and labour have lost a million voters in that time....
so we have a uk lead in no small way by thatcherism.... and 25 years later no one has changed it much or indeed inspired voters. the current snp govt did not get a majority of votes either. they polled 45% of scottish votes and the independence polls have not once yet gone past 45% either.
so yes not a shining thatcher victory in votes but its not being rejected either.
and finally why do i ask a non politician what his solution is? well im sorry i just think that if u are clever enough to state how stupid a policy of shutting ship yards is then i just think its a bit rich to be so clever with hindsight and when asked for a solution then all of a sudden u dont want to say anything because u r not a politician.... anyone can do that. its like turning up at a car crash and saying they should have gone slower.... its not hard or difficult..... but it is a very easy safe place to be. u can look very wise and yet say nothing that u might have to defend......
if u attack thatcher or anyone.... u should really have at least an idea of some kind of solution. u dont have to be an intellectual.... but u do have to come up with a little more than lets leave it to someone else..... incase u have not noticed that is what every politician has done since thatcher..... and is that working? no!
please dont take this as a personal attack. its really not meant that way. i am genuinly just asking u to think of a better way.... and if u said something i thought of as a good idea then perhaps thatcherites like me might actually agree with u and support it.
so what would i do about unemployment as my solution..... it is not easy i admit.... i think my answer has to be to use things like water and wind to innovate new technology. we can easily sell water to many places over the globe and we probably could power half of europe if we really wanted to.... but that will only come if the free market is given the tax breaks and help to get there. giving small companies the help to get going is far more important than massive public spending on many things that we do not need or can afford...
and thatcherism does fit into almost that entire vision. the day we stop propping up ship yards or failed banking systems and take the harder choices for the future and stop letting bad situations get worse is the day we get richer which then pays for all the great things like public spending. 30 pence in every pound goes to pay interest alone.... thats for the next 150 years. 30 p in every pound going on nothing of any value but paying for last years health service....
and u think closing ship yards was harsh.... yes it was but the problem was tackled and no longer exists and the jobs lost were regained very quickly..... why was that possible because tax cuts made it possible to get new jobs started. payed for wiuth the money that was being used to fund a ship yard that was never ever going to recover.
u attack the person that fixed it and seem to think the people who allowed it to get to that stage were perfectly reasonable......
so yes.... i do ask what u would do better and if u cant or wont answer then maybe u might just think at the very least that if shes so bad then u r no better.
lol... after all that im quite sure u are not as bad as i make it sound.... im sorry if i sound grumpy. have a good night even if u dont come back at my challenges.
***** this essay are all way too much to read but I'm sure it all makes sense inside your head
*_Honk if thatcher's dead_*
Michael is right. Maggie should be remembered and respected in Scotland for stopping the old Labour Party and the relationship it had with the militant trade unions back in the 80s. Maybe she took things a bit too far by the end of her tenure as PM, however for the first few years she did a lot to disturb the dominant position Labour had in Scotland.
The poll tax and the perception of "stealing Scotland's oil" really hurt the Tories up in Scotland. They never built on their 1979 election victory up there - they gained seats, but come 1983 and 1987 - they lost seats again. She sort of never understood Scotland. I think if they had the Scottish Office Standing Committee up in Edinburgh after they came to power, that would have helped, and also killed off the devolution demands for later on.
A prosperous Scotland yep ok in your world Michael ha ha it's the way you tell em ha ha vote "YES" in September
Scotland said naw.
Good Stuff!
I saw something wrong with the answer from dollars. He said "modern conservative party". It was neo-cons who have modern conservatism. Not thatcherites.
Your openings fascinate me.
ty 4 here
Do you vote no to scottish independence in 2014 yes 2001926 55% snp need give it rest. Art just as well. His Art polish channel gold mine Thomas. You help me as Tory Thatcherite scot.
Just let me finish! LOL
Art better off without them . It end in tears for National party Ireland 🇮🇪.
Seems to me Colin has a thing for Maggie.
Thatcherism is Dennis Thatcher yes he economic person Thomas it his policies who told Margaret Sweeney. Mrs Thatcher owes to him Dennis Thatcher yes. Art Bezrukavenko he help you Thomas that real friend.
Would your plans come in the future want STV voting system for UK general election DUP support it politically Thomas so do sinn fein.