Tubulars for me - I only had a small puncture in seven (7) years using Vittorias Corsa EVO CX. I have not adopted the tubeless or disc brakes technologies, and I've no intention to do so.
I'd switch to tubulars if what your saying was available. I'm sticking with ordinary clinchers for now. I average only one flat per year and I prefer high pressure.
I don’t think the manufacturers want to sell you hooked rim. I think they just want to sell you something that’s incompatible with what you already have
i reckon 'big cycle' is missing a trick with tubs. maybe they think they haven't squeezed enough juice from clinchers yet, before they shift over to promoting tubular as the advanced new tech thing. and then, after they squeeze the sheeple enough, back again to clinchers, again. time permitting. the looming mad max future might throw a stick in the spokes though
I'm currently running challenge Strada Bianchi tubeless tubulars and I'm absolutely in love with them...my mindset is that I'm essentially running the same setup as everyone who's gone tubeless lately. But I have the added benefit to having my tires glued on the rim.... PERFECT! I don't have to worry about burping a tire off the rim and if I flat I can plug it the same as anyone else. In my opinion it's a better setup overall. If they added a foam insert??? Absolutely the ultimate tire setup. I really wish more tubulars offered a tubeless option.
also. On my MTB and road I run tubeless with inserts, it's a great setup. If Challenge were to bring out the Getaway as tubeless tubular with inserts @45mm they can have my money!
Maybe you can help Waynos. When I was looking why clinchers have 'less rolling resistance' than tubulars, the cycling press and manufacturers claim that the glue use in tubulars causes losses in watts. I have never understood this because every tyre should have frictional losses with the rim. Maybe you can help me out here. If what the industry claims is true, I would think that tubular performance is the thing to optimize. Make a tub as fast as the fastest tubless/clincher setup. I think the issue with tubulars is that the bike industry is convinced that the lack of convenience leads to less sales. Interestingly enough they don't mind the lack of convenience with rim brakes and tubless tyres.
I do think the glue, taken more energy is a bit of a myth or is so small as to be insignificant. The important part is the sidewall, and this is where tubeless can have an advantage as a tub has a tube and casing whilst a tubeless has only the casing. But you then add sealant and now a insert. So it would be very marginal if any.
The adhesives used to glue tubular tires add a fair bit of rolling resistance, but theyre all different. Tacky glue, vs hard glue vs CX Tape vs tufo tape… all have more rolling resistance than a high quality tube or tubeless, but are pretty close to each other. The tubular tire squirms around on the rim and creates friction/rolling resistance. It’s less noticeable on very smooth surfaces, and you will still see track racers using very narrow and very high pressure tubulars for some time to come. On the road side, there is just no real reason to use them anymore and thats why we see pro teams trying to abandon them.
That argument about "you need a team car following you..." drives me crazy. It's honestly easier to tear the punctured tubular tire off of the rim and put a spare one on, assuming you are carrying one. Sure, the spare one isn't properly glued, but if your spare is one that was at one time glued, it's good enough to get you home as long as you don't go bombing around corners. I can do that much quicker than I can replacing a tube on a clincher. I don't have experience with plugs on a tubeless setup though, so I'm not sure how quick that would be. The downside though is that trying to repair a tubular once you're home is much more difficult, assuming that sealant doesn't solve the problem.
You can also super glue a patch on the outside as well as put sealant in. It is pretty rare you need to pull one off. There is also those pressurized cans with sealant, but can be messy.
Hookless rims are a dangerous trend and the wheel manufacturers are rolling the dice with your life to make a few extra bucks. Nobody should ever ride a hookless rim, regardless of what the wheel maker OR the tire company tell you.
Hookless rims are fantastic. I own many pairs. I have sold at least 300 pairs so far with not a single issue. I would only run hookless given a choice, and 90% of top carbon manufacturers are going hookless. How are they dangerous? I have seen many tires blow off rims in my day, but never on a hookless.
@@veloveritas9963 "I've sold..." Say no more. You have a vested interest in peddling hookless rims. Save your anecdotal stories about blowoffs for the naive noobs who buy them from you.
Bang on video, Wayno! As I mentioned in previous comments on your channel I ride a 90s rim-brake bike with period correct components. The largest tire I can comfortably run on my frameset is 25c but now running 23c tires based on one of your previous videos. I’ve scoured the internet and bike forums to find rim-brake tubeless rims that can run 23/25c tubeless tires to run the Vittoria tire inserts. My internet search has yielded zero results so anyone who know of such a rim please respond to my comment. I worry about having a front tire blowout on a windy descent and crashing, as I have read on several bike forums. A Vittoria tire insert on a tubular or tubeless tire would make descending much less distressing and safer. Wayno, please send an email or communication to Vittoria, Veloflex, Perelli, and Tufo (their tubulars are closest to tubeless but per forums ride like garden hoses) and ask them to comment on making an insert to their tubular tire. You may be a smaller channel but you are a cycling influencer nonetheless. Innovating tubular tires and making insets in tubular tires can save lives in the event of a flat. Many many cyclists still ride tubulars so there is a market for the tire companies. Go get ‘em, Wayno! Best,
Thanks for the positive comment, have wrote to companies in the past, unfortunately they are quite dismissive about reflecting on suggestions. I am hoping some tyre companies see this vid. Marketing people do watch my videos. As we know from AB 🤣. But this suggestion would solve a lot of the rim tyre manufacturing problems for companies. And with being more puncture resistant, will not need to be removed out on the road, giving people confidence to run them.
I completely agree with everything in your comment. I do hope the tire companies see your video. I will take it upon myself, and do my part, to email Vittoria, Veloflex, Perelli, and Tufo and direct them to your video. As the saying in basketball goes “You miss 100% of the shots your don’t take” (I can’t play basketball but I can ride a bike). Keep up the excellent content, it gives the rim-brake, tubular cyclists hope that things can change for the better. Best,
I'm running Ambrosio tubeless rims with Miche Syntesi hubs, 20 or 21mm internal, 24.5mm external, i've ridden anything from 25mm to 34mm tubless tyres on them. I custom built mine, not sure if available pre-built.
I'm running Hunt Sprint (?) tubeless compatible rim brake wheels on my 90's Colnago Master. My Vittoria Corsa 23mm tyres measure 26mm on these 19mm internal rims. I use latex tubes with these tyres and the ride quality is amazing! Good luck finding any 23mm tubeless tyres though!
Interesting concept regarding updating tubulars sounds good to me. I purchased 60mm (Knight) carbon clinchers last summer, enjoying the ride & durability so far. I do notice the cross winds above 10 MPH hold on. I use my other wheelset low profile aluminum wheelset when it's extremely windy.
Back in the day, the guys that I knew that ran tubulars would strap a spare to the back/bottom of their saddle. So if you inserted a pool noodle inside the tubular it wouldn't fold up very nicely would it?
That is true, but the context of putting a insert and sealant in a tubular, is the same intention as with tubeless, no or minimal flats. Therefore you don't need to carry the spare tyre. 👍
My Vittoria Corsa G still rolling without a flats. I only ride them in perfect conditions. I am in the market for lighter tubulars because I find my clinchers and tubulars lighter than my tubular set up by 35 plus grams and they roll a lot better than my old tubulars. The latest tubulars development came from Perelli who made their tubular with a TPU instead of latex inner tube. This technology looks to only be available to sponsored teams at the moment. Z
Funny how tech goes in circles. Original tires were solid rubber and the pros resisted tube tires. Now we are basically going back to a solid tire of sorts.
Every tire used by every road rider and racer in the world is pneumatic and uses air…. Mousse are quite popular with motorcycle riders, but would never work in a road bicycle application. Not really full circle at all.
@@veloveritas9963Never? Are you sure about that? Dunlop's invention of the pneumatic tire in the 1880s tire was slow to replace solid rubber tires. "For about five years racers resited using pneumatics" and "racers grudgingly started using them" in early 1890s instead preferring solid tires. Sponsored race events mandated pneumatic tire use that forced riders to make the switch. Greg Lemond's Complete book of Bicycling pg 323-324.
@@Wildschwein_Jaeger solid rubber tires haven’t been used on bicycles in at least 120 years… they are NEVER used. People have tried, but it just doesnt work.
Sealant in my tubulars ready for first 10 mile TT of the year tonight 💪. As you say it's not going to happen, what about the same foam in tiny balls? Could be sold as a pressurised can to inject through the valve. Ok so centrifugal force would send the to the outside of the tyre but then so does sealant. Might even help balance the tyre as there are companies that sell tyre balance plastic beads for car tyres.
@@waynosfotos thanks. These plastic balance beads are supposed to be in place of those weights, don't know if they work, probably don't, more snake oil.
Why insert a foam core into a tubular, when you can run flat anyway? All that expansion in atmospheric pressure gets nullified by contact pressure when rolling Replacing latex for TPU would be great though
To take a tubs off and put a new one on you need to carry with you a new tire. And that negates all the weight advantages that you mentioned. Plus the new tire would not be glued properly to the rim and hence you would have to be a bit careful. Change is the only constant in life. Tubulars have been used for many many years and they have probably reached their peak efficiency already. Now is time for something new. For sure they want to sell stuff. If they thought that there could be some financial gains by selling more improved tubs they would probably do it. I don’t really get your argumentation on “they want to sell hooked and hookless rims”
@@waynosfotos in case of aluminium rims the hook doesn't make a difference in manufacturing costs. And those are still the greatest share of the market.
@@waynosfotos It’s not just easier, it’s cheaper. Notice how high end carbon wheels dropped in price quite a bit over the last few years? You can get carbon wheels now that are quite good starting at $1300 USD. That was unheard of a few years ago.
I imagine it’d be impossible to get the insert into the tube of a tubular, and if its expanded when there’s no pressure it would be tricky to get the sealant in. I have a set of tubulars and I’ve put training tubs with butyl tubes in them and I’ve put sealant in them which you aren’t meant to do with latex tubes.
I do put sealant in latex tubes, it does attack the tube after some time, but you top it up, it works again. Eventually the tube fails. It does take months or years. Depends. The insert would need to be inserted at the manufacturing stage. So just ready to mount.
@@waynosfotos wait up, maybe the insert doesn't need to go inside the tube, just inside the tyre! I've never opened up a tubular but surely you can unstitch a big enough hole to thread a cut insert in underneath the tyre? Then I'd imagine it'd still work as normal - inflating the tube should still squash the insert down to nothing, then on deflation the insert expands to fill the void above. Something worth trying at home Wayno??
I do not see the disadvantage for tubulars. You can insert sealant anyway, even before puncture. And even if the sealant can‘t fix a puncture, you could rip the tubeless off the rim and put on the backup tubular from your sattle bag and fill with a air cartridge in less than a minute. And the best thing of all, the tubular saves your expensive 1200g 50mm carbon wheelset from damages while running flat. To have the same security features with tubless you need definitely Vittorias inserts, but the weight you can‘t get.
Tubular tyres are superior in every aspect accept cost and road side repair, even then they can be fixed most of the time. They claim tubeless has less rolling resistance, but i can't see how this is possible, even if it is it would be insignificant. I also can't see why tubulars can't be made like tubeless, decreasing this claimed rolling resistance. And improving the sealant affectiveness. Meaning tubular have all the benefits of tubeless with increased pressure variation and lightness
@@waynosfotos I totally agree, but the production cost and serviceability seems to be the problem for the masses. My only concern with this trend is, that tubulars might disappear one day like high-end rim brake frames seem to do right at the moment. And my problem with this, as it might be to you too, that I feel fooled to pay more money for a frame or bike that weights more than my old one, which is a 6,94kg Aero bike.
The average rider doesn’t’ want tubulars. The rim’s are only able to be used with one type of tire. A modern set of wheels can be used tubed or tubeless, any type of tube or tire and a wide range. Tubulars must be sized closely to the rim width to use properly, are still glued or taped, and difficult, if not impossible to repair. I raced on tubulars for many years… I would never ride them again and I beg customers in my shop to ditch them as well, unless its a special vintage bike they like to take out on special occasions. Tubulars have no real advantage over modern tube and tubeless tires. They have more rolling resistance and are less aero in terms of rim/tire combo. Adding sealant or inserts are just not going to happen in tubulars. It would be a step backwards. Almost All the top wheel brands have announced no more tubular production at all. Starting in 2023. The tubular is officially dead.
In my view, road bikes are not the same, imagine buying an F1 car and trying to convert it into a 4 seater, yes you could techincally do it after spending loads of money and faff but it was not designed for comfort its about speed. A road bike is the same, its not meant to be comfortable its meant to be fast hence old gen bikes werr rim brakes, tubulars, 25mm tyres 6.8kg on the button. Nowadays MAMILS are buying a race machine and trying to make it comfortable with wider tyres and tubeless and disks etc. Man up have a proper road bike which isn't comfortable but super quick or just ride a mountain bike. Thats ACTUALLY meant to be comfortable with suspension and massive massive tyres and massive disks. Nice and safe.
What happened with carbon bead tubeless? That’s what I used when road UST first came out. Those wouldn’t come off a rim hooked or hookless off you flatted. If. To me, tubulars are old tech that needs to go away. I used tubular exclusively when I I raced and trained in the 80s. Clinchers back then weren’t all that good. But clinchers are far better now. Maybe we need better sealants for high pressure use and carbon beads as well that won’t easily come off a rim in the event of a puncture. But gluing on tires? Com on son, it’s 2022.
I’ve only tried a 2.5 mountainbike tire with a Tannus tubeless insert on a 30 mm rim. Not a total pita but not easy either. Other mtb inserts are a total bear to install. Like Cushcore. I’m too light to need inserts. 142 pounds. Road inserts are intriguing especially for cyclocross or cobbled or gravel racing.
@@andyeunson270 interesting enough, these tire inserts came about from stunt bikers. They kept blurping their tyres jumping from one edge to another as they run their tyres really flat to absorb the impact. So they made a hack to fit noodles in. They didn't care about fast riding, just that the tyre would stay on the rim. Then the tyre companies picked up on it.
@@waynosfotos its more to do with traction than bump absorbing you get a far bigger contact patch with low pressures especially in mud. The bump absorbing side of it is for protecting the tire from cutting on the rim and pinch flats as we bottom out on rocks.
Not really related.....well possibly as it's a track bike with tubs. Coach brought her new bike to the track on Monday, latest LOOK.....saw it in a pic, thought that looks nice......seeing it in the flesh OMG it was pure bike porn, I can understand now why you bought a road version 🥰
I tried tubeless....it is ok until you flat...after that I could not seat the tyre again....what a faff....Clincher for the day to day ...no probs there .. for the fast stuff on the good bike..tubulars with sealant.....yes with new tech,,would be a game changer....so many people slate tubulars....have you tried them with a high end wheelset....nothing feels faster or safer....oh and cornering...no contest....not for everyone for sure....not everyone appreciates them...
Yes that is true, why i mentioned it in the video. But this is a marketing decision, not a practical decision. This is why the manufacturers are desperate to get tubeless relaible for the pros.
Road tubeless and tubs are a load of crap. Who the hell wants to deal with all that hassle for the sake of a couple of watts, and 500 bloody grams. What's wrong with clinchers and an inner tube? Just more crap to sell consumers that they don't need.
Tubulars for me - I only had a small puncture in seven (7) years using Vittorias Corsa EVO CX. I have not adopted the tubeless or disc brakes technologies, and I've no intention to do so.
I'd switch to tubulars if what your saying was available. I'm sticking with ordinary clinchers for now. I average only one flat per year and I prefer high pressure.
I don’t think the manufacturers want to sell you hooked rim. I think they just want to sell you something that’s incompatible with what you already have
🤣😁👍
correct. all profiteering
i reckon 'big cycle' is missing a trick with tubs. maybe they think they haven't squeezed enough juice from clinchers yet, before they shift over to promoting tubular as the advanced new tech thing. and then, after they squeeze the sheeple enough, back again to clinchers, again. time permitting. the looming mad max future might throw a stick in the spokes though
I'm currently running challenge Strada Bianchi tubeless tubulars and I'm absolutely in love with them...my mindset is that I'm essentially running the same setup as everyone who's gone tubeless lately. But I have the added benefit to having my tires glued on the rim.... PERFECT! I don't have to worry about burping a tire off the rim and if I flat I can plug it the same as anyone else. In my opinion it's a better setup overall. If they added a foam insert??? Absolutely the ultimate tire setup. I really wish more tubulars offered a tubeless option.
Sounds like a good setup. Thanks for the comment. 🤔
also. On my MTB and road I run tubeless with inserts, it's a great setup. If Challenge were to bring out the Getaway as tubeless tubular with inserts @45mm they can have my money!
There are two tyre manufacturers who have made tubeless tubulars: Dugast's now seemingly discontinued Ori tyres and Tufo's range of garden hoses!
Maybe you can help Waynos. When I was looking why clinchers have 'less rolling resistance' than tubulars, the cycling press and manufacturers claim that the glue use in tubulars causes losses in watts. I have never understood this because every tyre should have frictional losses with the rim. Maybe you can help me out here. If what the industry claims is true, I would think that tubular performance is the thing to optimize. Make a tub as fast as the fastest tubless/clincher setup.
I think the issue with tubulars is that the bike industry is convinced that the lack of convenience leads to less sales. Interestingly enough they don't mind the lack of convenience with rim brakes and tubless tyres.
I do think the glue, taken more energy is a bit of a myth or is so small as to be insignificant. The important part is the sidewall, and this is where tubeless can have an advantage as a tub has a tube and casing whilst a tubeless has only the casing. But you then add sealant and now a insert. So it would be very marginal if any.
The adhesives used to glue tubular tires add a fair bit of rolling resistance, but theyre all different. Tacky glue, vs hard glue vs CX Tape vs tufo tape… all have more rolling resistance than a high quality tube or tubeless, but are pretty close to each other. The tubular tire squirms around on the rim and creates friction/rolling resistance. It’s less noticeable on very smooth surfaces, and you will still see track racers using very narrow and very high pressure tubulars for some time to come. On the road side, there is just no real reason to use them anymore and thats why we see pro teams trying to abandon them.
@@veloveritas9963 could you link sources regarding the wattage losses with different glues n tapes
Love my tubuler no flats ride great.
That argument about "you need a team car following you..." drives me crazy. It's honestly easier to tear the punctured tubular tire off of the rim and put a spare one on, assuming you are carrying one. Sure, the spare one isn't properly glued, but if your spare is one that was at one time glued, it's good enough to get you home as long as you don't go bombing around corners. I can do that much quicker than I can replacing a tube on a clincher. I don't have experience with plugs on a tubeless setup though, so I'm not sure how quick that would be. The downside though is that trying to repair a tubular once you're home is much more difficult, assuming that sealant doesn't solve the problem.
You can also super glue a patch on the outside as well as put sealant in. It is pretty rare you need to pull one off. There is also those pressurized cans with sealant, but can be messy.
You just can't put a fresh to blur on a bare rim; you have to apply multiple layers of glue over several days.
Hookless rims are a dangerous trend and the wheel manufacturers are rolling the dice with your life to make a few extra bucks. Nobody should ever ride a hookless rim, regardless of what the wheel maker OR the tire company tell you.
They are far from perfected. For sure.
Hookless rims are fantastic. I own many pairs. I have sold at least 300 pairs so far with not a single issue. I would only run hookless given a choice, and 90% of top carbon manufacturers are going hookless. How are they dangerous? I have seen many tires blow off rims in my day, but never on a hookless.
@@veloveritas9963 "I've sold..." Say no more. You have a vested interest in peddling hookless rims. Save your anecdotal stories about blowoffs for the naive noobs who buy them from you.
Bang on video, Wayno! As I mentioned in previous comments on your channel I ride a 90s rim-brake bike with period correct components. The largest tire I can comfortably run on my frameset is 25c but now running 23c tires based on one of your previous videos. I’ve scoured the internet and bike forums to find rim-brake tubeless rims that can run 23/25c tubeless tires to run the Vittoria tire inserts. My internet search has yielded zero results so anyone who know of such a rim please respond to my comment. I worry about having a front tire blowout on a windy descent and crashing, as I have read on several bike forums. A Vittoria tire insert on a tubular or tubeless tire would make descending much less distressing and safer. Wayno, please send an email or communication to Vittoria, Veloflex, Perelli, and Tufo (their tubulars are closest to tubeless but per forums ride like garden hoses) and ask them to comment on making an insert to their tubular tire. You may be a smaller channel but you are a cycling influencer nonetheless. Innovating tubular tires and making insets in tubular tires can save lives in the event of a flat. Many many cyclists still ride tubulars so there is a market for the tire companies. Go get ‘em, Wayno! Best,
Thanks for the positive comment, have wrote to companies in the past, unfortunately they are quite dismissive about reflecting on suggestions.
I am hoping some tyre companies see this vid. Marketing people do watch my videos. As we know from AB 🤣.
But this suggestion would solve a lot of the rim tyre manufacturing problems for companies. And with being more puncture resistant, will not need to be removed out on the road, giving people confidence to run them.
I completely agree with everything in your comment. I do hope the tire companies see your video. I will take it upon myself, and do my part, to email Vittoria, Veloflex, Perelli, and Tufo and direct them to your video. As the saying in basketball goes “You miss 100% of the shots your don’t take” (I can’t play basketball but I can ride a bike). Keep up the excellent content, it gives the rim-brake, tubular cyclists hope that things can change for the better. Best,
I'm running Ambrosio tubeless rims with Miche Syntesi hubs, 20 or 21mm internal, 24.5mm external, i've ridden anything from 25mm to 34mm tubless tyres on them. I custom built mine, not sure if available pre-built.
I'm running Hunt Sprint (?) tubeless compatible rim brake wheels on my 90's Colnago Master. My Vittoria Corsa 23mm tyres measure 26mm on these 19mm internal rims. I use latex tubes with these tyres and the ride quality is amazing! Good luck finding any 23mm tubeless tyres though!
@@cosinus_square Thank you, COSINUS, for informing me about Ambrosio tubeless rims for rim brake. I will look into them. Best,
Interesting concept regarding updating tubulars sounds good to me. I purchased 60mm (Knight) carbon clinchers last summer, enjoying the ride & durability so far. I do notice the cross winds above 10 MPH hold on. I use my other wheelset low profile aluminum wheelset when it's extremely windy.
Tufo makes tubuless tubular tires. Maybe you should give them a try ;)
There simply isn't a commercial future for tubulars.
Back in the day, the guys that I knew that ran tubulars would strap a spare to the back/bottom of their saddle. So if you inserted a pool noodle inside the tubular it wouldn't fold up very nicely would it?
That is true, but the context of putting a insert and sealant in a tubular, is the same intention as with tubeless, no or minimal flats. Therefore you don't need to carry the spare tyre. 👍
My Vittoria Corsa G still rolling without a flats. I only ride them in perfect conditions. I am in the market for lighter tubulars because I find my clinchers and tubulars lighter than my tubular set up by 35 plus grams and they roll a lot better than my old tubulars. The latest tubulars development came from Perelli who made their tubular with a TPU instead of latex inner tube. This technology looks to only be available to sponsored teams at the moment. Z
Funny how tech goes in circles. Original tires were solid rubber and the pros resisted tube tires. Now we are basically going back to a solid tire of sorts.
Every tire used by every road rider and racer in the world is pneumatic and uses air…. Mousse are quite popular with motorcycle riders, but would never work in a road bicycle application. Not really full circle at all.
@@veloveritas9963Never? Are you sure about that? Dunlop's invention of the pneumatic tire in the 1880s tire was slow to replace solid rubber tires. "For about five years racers resited using pneumatics" and "racers grudgingly started using them" in early 1890s instead preferring solid tires. Sponsored race events mandated pneumatic tire use that forced riders to make the switch. Greg Lemond's Complete book of Bicycling pg 323-324.
@@Wildschwein_Jaeger solid rubber tires haven’t been used on bicycles in at least 120 years… they are NEVER used. People have tried, but it just doesnt work.
Sealant in my tubulars ready for first 10 mile TT of the year tonight 💪.
As you say it's not going to happen, what about the same foam in tiny balls? Could be sold as a pressurised can to inject through the valve. Ok so centrifugal force would send the to the outside of the tyre but then so does sealant. Might even help balance the tyre as there are companies that sell tyre balance plastic beads for car tyres.
Car rims need to be balanced, otherwise significant vibrations. They have little square weights they fit.
Good luck with the race 👍
@@waynosfotos thanks.
These plastic balance beads are supposed to be in place of those weights, don't know if they work, probably don't, more snake oil.
Sounds like it's time to unstitch a tubular and add an insert as a bit of an experiment
Why insert a foam core into a tubular, when you can run flat anyway? All that expansion in atmospheric pressure gets nullified by contact pressure when rolling
Replacing latex for TPU would be great though
Wayno check out the Cycling Tips story "Exposed By A Strava KOM..." Do a video on it. Has an Australian connection.
Will check it out, cheers
Can't find it? Sure that is the name and from Cycling tips?
About some guy called Nick Clark
I have listed the url for the site three times and it keeps disappearing...
exposed-by-a-strava-kom-the-many-lives-of-a-fake-pro-cyclist. Posting again because UA-cam or someone deleted the comment.
It seems like more money then is needed
To take a tubs off and put a new one on you need to carry with you a new tire. And that negates all the weight advantages that you mentioned. Plus the new tire would not be glued properly to the rim and hence you would have to be a bit careful. Change is the only constant in life. Tubulars have been used for many many years and they have probably reached their peak efficiency already. Now is time for something new. For sure they want to sell stuff. If they thought that there could be some financial gains by selling more improved tubs they would probably do it. I don’t really get your argumentation on “they want to sell hooked and hookless rims”
They want to sell hookless because it is easier for them to manufacture.
@@waynosfotos in case of aluminium rims the hook doesn't make a difference in manufacturing costs. And those are still the greatest share of the market.
@@waynosfotos It’s not just easier, it’s cheaper. Notice how high end carbon wheels dropped in price quite a bit over the last few years? You can get carbon wheels now that are quite good starting at $1300 USD. That was unheard of a few years ago.
Just use sealant. You don't need to carry a spare
@@dickieblench5001 sealant only works so well in tubulars. works much better in a tubeless tire. I usually only add sealant after a tubular punctures.
I imagine it’d be impossible to get the insert into the tube of a tubular, and if its expanded when there’s no pressure it would be tricky to get the sealant in. I have a set of tubulars and I’ve put training tubs with butyl tubes in them and I’ve put sealant in them which you aren’t meant to do with latex tubes.
I do put sealant in latex tubes, it does attack the tube after some time, but you top it up, it works again. Eventually the tube fails. It does take months or years. Depends.
The insert would need to be inserted at the manufacturing stage. So just ready to mount.
@@waynosfotos wait up, maybe the insert doesn't need to go inside the tube, just inside the tyre! I've never opened up a tubular but surely you can unstitch a big enough hole to thread a cut insert in underneath the tyre? Then I'd imagine it'd still work as normal - inflating the tube should still squash the insert down to nothing, then on deflation the insert expands to fill the void above. Something worth trying at home Wayno??
I do not see the disadvantage for tubulars. You can insert sealant anyway, even before puncture. And even if the sealant can‘t fix a puncture, you could rip the tubeless off the rim and put on the backup tubular from your sattle bag and fill with a air cartridge in less than a minute. And the best thing of all, the tubular saves your expensive 1200g 50mm carbon wheelset from damages while running flat.
To have the same security features with tubless you need definitely Vittorias inserts, but the weight you can‘t get.
Tubular tyres are superior in every aspect accept cost and road side repair, even then they can be fixed most of the time.
They claim tubeless has less rolling resistance, but i can't see how this is possible, even if it is it would be insignificant.
I also can't see why tubulars can't be made like tubeless, decreasing this claimed rolling resistance. And improving the sealant affectiveness.
Meaning tubular have all the benefits of tubeless with increased pressure variation and lightness
@@waynosfotos I totally agree, but the production cost and serviceability seems to be the problem for the masses. My only concern with this trend is, that tubulars might disappear one day like high-end rim brake frames seem to do right at the moment. And my problem with this, as it might be to you too, that I feel fooled to pay more money for a frame or bike that weights more than my old one, which is a 6,94kg Aero bike.
What happen to pirelli and the thermoplastic inner tube. It's rare but I am looking for some.
Pirelli STR I believe those tubular are called
The average rider doesn’t’ want tubulars. The rim’s are only able to be used with one type of tire. A modern set of wheels can be used tubed or tubeless, any type of tube or tire and a wide range. Tubulars must be sized closely to the rim width to use properly, are still glued or taped, and difficult, if not impossible to repair. I raced on tubulars for many years… I would never ride them again and I beg customers in my shop to ditch them as well, unless its a special vintage bike they like to take out on special occasions. Tubulars have no real advantage over modern tube and tubeless tires. They have more rolling resistance and are less aero in terms of rim/tire combo. Adding sealant or inserts are just not going to happen in tubulars. It would be a step backwards. Almost All the top wheel brands have announced no more tubular production at all. Starting in 2023. The tubular is officially dead.
I don't see why they can't do that. I do ride Vittoria already.
Double brake discs on front wheel first . Rear next .Sky is limit😉
There is a vid kicking around where a guy did this on a MTB. He machined all the parts, quite impressive, but of course, twice the weight.
In my view, road bikes are not the same, imagine buying an F1 car and trying to convert it into a 4 seater, yes you could techincally do it after spending loads of money and faff but it was not designed for comfort its about speed. A road bike is the same, its not meant to be comfortable its meant to be fast hence old gen bikes werr rim brakes, tubulars, 25mm tyres 6.8kg on the button. Nowadays MAMILS are buying a race machine and trying to make it comfortable with wider tyres and tubeless and disks etc. Man up have a proper road bike which isn't comfortable but super quick or just ride a mountain bike. Thats ACTUALLY meant to be comfortable with suspension and massive massive tyres and massive disks. Nice and safe.
What happened with carbon bead tubeless? That’s what I used when road UST first came out. Those wouldn’t come off a rim hooked or hookless off you flatted. If. To me, tubulars are old tech that needs to go away. I used tubular exclusively when I I raced and trained in the 80s. Clinchers back then weren’t all that good. But clinchers are far better now. Maybe we need better sealants for high pressure use and carbon beads as well that won’t easily come off a rim in the event of a puncture. But gluing on tires? Com on son, it’s 2022.
Have you fitted a tubeless, with an insert?
Much harder than gluing or taping a tubular.
I’ve only tried a 2.5 mountainbike tire with a Tannus tubeless insert on a 30 mm rim. Not a total pita but not easy either. Other mtb inserts are a total bear to install. Like Cushcore. I’m too light to need inserts. 142 pounds. Road inserts are intriguing especially for cyclocross or cobbled or gravel racing.
@@andyeunson270 interesting enough, these tire inserts came about from stunt bikers. They kept blurping their tyres jumping from one edge to another as they run their tyres really flat to absorb the impact. So they made a hack to fit noodles in. They didn't care about fast riding, just that the tyre would stay on the rim. Then the tyre companies picked up on it.
@@waynosfotos its more to do with traction than bump absorbing you get a far bigger contact patch with low pressures especially in mud. The bump absorbing side of it is for protecting the tire from cutting on the rim and pinch flats as we bottom out on rocks.
@@jonnythelegs2597 That is exactly why CX racers will continue to use tubulars for many many years. Just cant beat them for CX.
Was expecting . Mike Oldfield song .. 🎵
You must be a young fellow 😁
I quite like to exorcise whilst listening to Tubular Bells
The power of Christ propels me!
@@waynosfotos ....at heart...
Not really related.....well possibly as it's a track bike with tubs.
Coach brought her new bike to the track on Monday, latest LOOK.....saw it in a pic, thought that looks nice......seeing it in the flesh OMG it was pure bike porn, I can understand now why you bought a road version 🥰
I tried tubeless....it is ok until you flat...after that I could not seat the tyre again....what a faff....Clincher for the day to day ...no probs there .. for the fast stuff on the good bike..tubulars with sealant.....yes with new tech,,would be a game changer....so many people slate tubulars....have you tried them with a high end wheelset....nothing feels faster or safer....oh and cornering...no contest....not for everyone for sure....not everyone appreciates them...
I ride tubulars all the time, use tape. Can't see why people think them a hassle. I find them very easy to live with.
Please! No! Don't "fix" em like they've done to other bike stuff. They work great just like they are..
The only issue that I have with tubular is that the tire rubs the frame when deflated. I am sure it will rub if the tire goes flat. If.
Don't wish for that! 🤣
.Tubular has no perspective of future profits compare to tubless ,hookless.I bet 29 on road bike is next.😁
Yes that is true, why i mentioned it in the video. But this is a marketing decision, not a practical decision. This is why the manufacturers are desperate to get tubeless relaible for the pros.
Road tubeless and tubs are a load of crap. Who the hell wants to deal with all that hassle for the sake of a couple of watts, and 500 bloody grams. What's wrong with clinchers and an inner tube? Just more crap to sell consumers that they don't need.
Nothing wrong with a tubed clincher, but that is not the manufacturers want.
Manufacturers can take my inner tubes out of my cold dead hands.