I remember playing Champions back when it came out in 81... Me and my crew were masters of creating the 250 pt character... We went to GenCon in 1984 and mopped the table with everyone we played... I still have my old books. Those were good times
My friend described this game as thusly: "You can do ALOT of cool stuff in this game. You also have to be smart about what you pick. Just because you're Big Buff Johnny Badass doesnt mean the scrawny dude who can phase through solid objects won't ruin your day. Have to be smart and have a plan with what you're building."
That is true, but the main point of the system is to be able to get EXACTLY what you want on paper. Your character will never be 'perfect', but will be what you envisioned. I did several videos in this series on character/base/vehicle building and was GUTTED in the comments about how my math wasn't right, or I could've done it better. I read what the commenter wrote and made a decision. I reached out to him and collaborated on the last 2 videos so I could do better.
I don't have any of the Champions books, but I do own the big, black HERO System (4th Edition) and really enjoy the versatility in character, vehicle, magic, etc, etc... customization. If you liked that episode, check out Heathendog's part 2: ua-cam.com/video/Oct9TKqWASE/v-deo.html
@@JohnSchloe 4th edition is nicknamed the Big Blue Book (BBB). 5th edition is nicknamed FRED, and is a black book (HERO System 5th Edition). The two big thick books are 6th edition (HERO System 6ed), and their is Champions Complete (which is also 6ed).
I loved this system. Played it in early 90’s. Had the 3.5 floppy that came with the book for character creation. A few years ago I found an old folder with random characters I created back then. Fun walk down memory lane.
Love Champions, been a player from the start long before there was a Hero System. Once Espionage, Fantasy Hero and Justice Inc came out they then went back and re-tooled Champions expanding it with the new combat maneuvers introduced in Espionage (later expanded into a game called Danger International. Since the new games each did things a little bit differently they then put out a core Hero System Book, then from Champions 3rd ed and up all the games used the core rule book. My main gripe is combat is too slow, I have personally never played a game with such slow combat. I have to say the pure control of power level and character customization is far beyond games such as Mutants and Masterminds. Sounds like Multipower has been drastically changed in this edition based on the video. As for Variable Power pool, if you disallow changing powers in combat the player gets a point break via a power limitation. At least when it was first introduced in 2nd ed (Champions II the Supper Supplement) up through 5th ed that was the case. Also I did not hear you bring up Elemental Control, this was similar to multi power in that it gave characters a cost break on powers so long as they followed a central theme, such as all your powers are fire based, plant based, etc.. Did they do away with them in 6th edition?
If you have slow combat it is because of bad players and/or bad GM. When we played in West Germany and later at Ft Campball, we would have 3-4 combats in a single 6 hour session. If your players are ready to act because they are invested in the action, then combat is fast.
FWIW, the short time period between 1st and 2nd edition was partly due to them selling through the print run on 1st more quickly than expected and the company deciding that they had enough tweaks and errata to make it worth doing a new edition rather than reprinting an old one they knew had some flaws they wanted to fix. Or at least that's what they told me back in the day.
I think the Hero System is more theoretical than anything. I absorbed everything from 1990 through FRED and Fantasy Hero, but basically never played it. Still, great memories.
Re: the Language Family chart, you'd only use that if languages were an important part of your game. The great majority of GMs will ignore it for their campaigns. Re: voluntarily lowering your SPD, I've never had a character do that. With the ability to hold from a phase you act in to another that you don't (up until your next scheduled phase), I really can't see an advantage to lowering SPD. But a GM could disallow doing so anyway. There are Powers that can drain a person's attributes, though, including SPD, so it could still be an issue. But again, a GM can disallow SPD drains in their campaign. Re: combat, just keep Base OCV + 11 handy -- the rest is just adding or subtracting modifiers, same as just about every other game out there. I've been playing Champions/Hero System since 1981, when a group of friends gave it to me for my 17th birthday. Lots of fond memories playing this amazing game system. It's nice to see people making it more visible.
I understand what you're saying, but a player that has the GM ignore rule after rule as it is written can get pretty upset. He may even start to think that the GM is messing with him. Players can get weird like that :) I'm glad you like the game and my content. No system is perfect, but they can still be fun to play.
@@heathendog9749 It's not ignoring as much as it's house-ruling. I haven't played a TTRPG yet that hasn't suggested or even encouraged making alterations to suit the needs of the campaign.
I believe you would want to lower your speed to reduce the effect of some negative conditions. For example I believe you drown or suffocate based on your active phases, so lowering your speed means less damage. I don't have the book in front of me, so I might be off on that.
What system would guys recommend for a One Piece setting? I want players starting as martial artists/warriors/shooters, but being able to get akuma no mi workable, champions rpg would be able to run it?
The Hero system (what Champions is based on) and GURPS are perfect for creating a game that no one has. LOTS of people have created games based on series' that way. They are versatile and customizable, able to tackle any genre and power level. Either is great for what you need.
On your slide for how to hit someone, I feel like that list is inflated for comedic purposes. You're not going to be constantly calculating your OCV or a target's DCV. It's really simple, your OCV +11 -3d6 is the DCV you can hit. You might have some situations where you get some advantages or disadvantages to those values, but they're not going to be happening that frequently. I've got a +2 to my Hand to Hand attacks, so that's always the same. It's not so different from D&D or something in that regard. There's also a great page called "Nine Ways To Speed Up Combat" (HSV2, pg 52) that has a bunch of ways to simplify this list. For your SPD it's simply the number of times you will act in a Turn. I like to use a d12 to track what Segment of combat we're in. The "Lowering your SPD" mechanic is an optional rule you're looking at (HSV2, pg 17). They even say it's potentially unbalancing, so don't bother with it. Normally a character could only lower their SPD in the Post-Segment 12 period. Even then you could just say that you're not going to play that way. If your characters are just wanting to hold an action there are rules to allow them to do that without having to change their SPD (HSV2, pg 20). There are advantages and disadvantages to being really fast. Sure you get to act a lot, but that's a lot more END your spending before your Post-Segment 12 recovery. For languages it would have been more prudent to use the Language Fluency table (HSV1, pg 80). That language table you're showing is optional and not standard. It's also easier to understand if you look at the color version which is in the PDF version I have. For the normal scale it's 1 to 5 points for your ability to use any language and how well you speak it. Easy peasy. So you're spending a lot of time harping on something that you're not expected to use. I've also heard you say a few times that a good advantage for a gun is armor piercing, but I think a better one is Autofire which allows you to make several attacks with one attack roll. A gun would most likely be built as a Killing Attack, which already requires a special type of defense to defend against it. Armor Piercing would make sense for a special kind of ammo with a gun, but I think you find more guns that fire quickly instead of through armor. Of course both make sense, it just depends on how you define the power. So you say several times that there is something wrong with this system, but I would rebut with I think it's more so your understanding of the system. I love making characters in this system too, so I hope I can help you find some more ease in your process!
I could see variable power pool working if the changes in combat are simple. Like if you have an aid and you change the characteristic it effects. That wouldn't take long, and if you had a short list it'd work similarly to a multipower, but with slightly more flexibility.
True, but multiple players with VPPs (even simple ones) can turn into a big time-sink. This issue gets better with experienced players and a knowledgeable GM. Once a group is at a certain level of experience, VPPs can flow pretty well. Until then, several players 'mathing-out' in the same round will take forever!
Avarickan 🎲 Thank you for watching and for your comment, we really appreciate it. 🔮 If you think this video has merit, please share it with your TTRPG friends and community. For a small channel like ours, this helps us more than people know. For more tabletop RPG videos, please take a look here: ua-cam.com/channels/N5pMxx-V67R2SeTqVZmg3Q.htmlplaylists?view=50&sort=dd&shelf_id=15 *May all of your adventures be fun and memorable.*
I picked up the system easily. I also found combat to be fast. Considering how much damage your throwing around vs how much is being soaked up. My group had combat fast enough to have several separate combats in a single session. It looks complicated but really is no more complicated than most other systems. Less actually. I find many of the newer "rules light" systems are far more complicated, with rules that actually get in the way of play.
When I encountered Champions I just watched the first couple of times, then asked if I could borrow a book and I created my 1st character, an electrical energy projector, in about 30 minutes. It's only a hard system to learn if math above 4th grade level is difficult for you. EDIT: Or you have the creative ability of Amazon or Disney.
Your thing with the speed chart was wrong. Or a dumb particular of 6e. Once combat begins. There is no rolling from round to round. Just your order on the chart. If you drop your spd for a round(12 phases), you are at that spd for the round, and baring any interference should be able to increase it to normal as a zero phaze action in phaze 12.
You can only change your effective speed in a phase when your actual speed and the speed you want to change to share a phase. So it's both inconvenient and complicates the game to change speeds.
@@kevinsullivan3448 I get where you might find it inconvenient, but how does having to do so on a shared spd make it more complicated? Seems to me, it would be far more complicated to do it out of a shared phase.
You really need to look back at 5th edition. Which is the culmination of all previous ed being cleaned up and coalesced into one system. The biggest changes were made between 5th and 6th and caused a lot of consternation. In fact it was so bad that Hero fully supports 5e. Which is the superior system. Six made several stats pointless by severing derived stats from their controlling primary stat. I get the impression they were trying to emulate Mutants and Masterminds. Which is just a bad system.
I think the things that are bothering you are pretty minor. Its not bad to have high standards, but there are experienced players in your chat telling you it works fine. Maybe respect that? Your rebuttal is "if you have to excuse it, it's wrong." You seem to have a "you should have your cake and eat it too" mentality. Ok, great. What is your solution? What is the way that you can get massive customization without it being crunchy? Pitch your idea. Sell it. Let's see it!
He didn't say that, he said "massive customization always leads to massive clunkiness". He wasn't saying there was a solution, just that one needs the other.
@@heathendog9749 You simply cannot say that, it's too subjective. You cannot state that it objectively isn't good. Sure, the audience is smaller because of its technical specifics, but not objectively good or bad.
@@samuelrodrigues8582 It's not. It actually fixes a lot of things. People get stuck in their editions. The biggest complaint against 6e honestly is it reads like a textbook.
I remember playing Champions back when it came out in 81... Me and my crew were masters of creating the 250 pt character... We went to GenCon in 1984 and mopped the table with everyone we played... I still have my old books. Those were good times
My friend described this game as thusly:
"You can do ALOT of cool stuff in this game. You also have to be smart about what you pick. Just because you're Big Buff Johnny Badass doesnt mean the scrawny dude who can phase through solid objects won't ruin your day. Have to be smart and have a plan with what you're building."
That is true, but the main point of the system is to be able to get EXACTLY what you want on paper. Your character will never be 'perfect', but will be what you envisioned. I did several videos in this series on character/base/vehicle building and was GUTTED in the comments about how my math wasn't right, or I could've done it better. I read what the commenter wrote and made a decision. I reached out to him and collaborated on the last 2 videos so I could do better.
Huge champions hero fan here. We need more UA-cam videos on this system. It gets near zero love.
I don't have any of the Champions books, but I do own the big, black HERO System (4th Edition) and really enjoy the versatility in character, vehicle, magic, etc, etc... customization.
If you liked that episode, check out Heathendog's part 2: ua-cam.com/video/Oct9TKqWASE/v-deo.html
Regarding Part 2 - I SWEAR... I DID the math. I Just Couldn't remember the numbers at that moment :)
@@JohnSchloe 4th edition is nicknamed the Big Blue Book (BBB). 5th edition is nicknamed FRED, and is a black book (HERO System 5th Edition). The two big thick books are 6th edition (HERO System 6ed), and their is Champions Complete (which is also 6ed).
I loved this system. Played it in early 90’s. Had the 3.5 floppy that came with the book for character creation. A few years ago I found an old folder with random characters I created back then. Fun walk down memory lane.
For us, this is a really old video that's recently gained some traction. I'm glad to see the renewed interest in Champions.
Love Champions, been a player from the start long before there was a Hero System. Once Espionage, Fantasy Hero and Justice Inc came out they then went back and re-tooled Champions expanding it with the new combat maneuvers introduced in Espionage (later expanded into a game called Danger International. Since the new games each did things a little bit differently they then put out a core Hero System Book, then from Champions 3rd ed and up all the games used the core rule book. My main gripe is combat is too slow, I have personally never played a game with such slow combat. I have to say the pure control of power level and character customization is far beyond games such as Mutants and Masterminds. Sounds like Multipower has been drastically changed in this edition based on the video. As for Variable Power pool, if you disallow changing powers in combat the player gets a point break via a power limitation. At least when it was first introduced in 2nd ed (Champions II the Supper Supplement) up through 5th ed that was the case. Also I did not hear you bring up Elemental Control, this was similar to multi power in that it gave characters a cost break on powers so long as they followed a central theme, such as all your powers are fire based, plant based, etc.. Did they do away with them in 6th edition?
Elemental control and variable power pool were changed. Elemental Control is basically gone. I don't really like it either, but that is the case.
If you have slow combat it is because of bad players and/or bad GM. When we played in West Germany and later at Ft Campball, we would have 3-4 combats in a single 6 hour session. If your players are ready to act because they are invested in the action, then combat is fast.
FWIW, the short time period between 1st and 2nd edition was partly due to them selling through the print run on 1st more quickly than expected and the company deciding that they had enough tweaks and errata to make it worth doing a new edition rather than reprinting an old one they knew had some flaws they wanted to fix. Or at least that's what they told me back in the day.
Thanks for the good info!
I think the Hero System is more theoretical than anything. I absorbed everything from 1990 through FRED and Fantasy Hero, but basically never played it. Still, great memories.
Re: the Language Family chart, you'd only use that if languages were an important part of your game. The great majority of GMs will ignore it for their campaigns.
Re: voluntarily lowering your SPD, I've never had a character do that. With the ability to hold from a phase you act in to another that you don't (up until your next scheduled phase), I really can't see an advantage to lowering SPD. But a GM could disallow doing so anyway. There are Powers that can drain a person's attributes, though, including SPD, so it could still be an issue. But again, a GM can disallow SPD drains in their campaign.
Re: combat, just keep Base OCV + 11 handy -- the rest is just adding or subtracting modifiers, same as just about every other game out there.
I've been playing Champions/Hero System since 1981, when a group of friends gave it to me for my 17th birthday. Lots of fond memories playing this amazing game system. It's nice to see people making it more visible.
I understand what you're saying, but a player that has the GM ignore rule after rule as it is written can get pretty upset. He may even start to think that the GM is messing with him. Players can get weird like that :) I'm glad you like the game and my content. No system is perfect, but they can still be fun to play.
@@heathendog9749 It's not ignoring as much as it's house-ruling. I haven't played a TTRPG yet that hasn't suggested or even encouraged making alterations to suit the needs of the campaign.
I believe you would want to lower your speed to reduce the effect of some negative conditions. For example I believe you drown or suffocate based on your active phases, so lowering your speed means less damage. I don't have the book in front of me, so I might be off on that.
What system would guys recommend for a One Piece setting?
I want players starting as martial artists/warriors/shooters, but being able to get akuma no mi workable, champions rpg would be able to run it?
The Hero system (what Champions is based on) and GURPS are perfect for creating a game that no one has. LOTS of people have created games based on series' that way. They are versatile and customizable, able to tackle any genre and power level. Either is great for what you need.
These are great videos heathendog. Appreciate you guys making them.
Glad you like them!
On your slide for how to hit someone, I feel like that list is inflated for comedic purposes. You're not going to be constantly calculating your OCV or a target's DCV. It's really simple, your OCV +11 -3d6 is the DCV you can hit. You might have some situations where you get some advantages or disadvantages to those values, but they're not going to be happening that frequently.
I've got a +2 to my Hand to Hand attacks, so that's always the same. It's not so different from D&D or something in that regard. There's also a great page called "Nine Ways To Speed Up Combat" (HSV2, pg 52) that has a bunch of ways to simplify this list.
For your SPD it's simply the number of times you will act in a Turn. I like to use a d12 to track what Segment of combat we're in. The "Lowering your SPD" mechanic is an optional rule you're looking at (HSV2, pg 17). They even say it's potentially unbalancing, so don't bother with it. Normally a character could only lower their SPD in the Post-Segment 12 period. Even then you could just say that you're not going to play that way. If your characters are just wanting to hold an action there are rules to allow them to do that without having to change their SPD (HSV2, pg 20). There are advantages and disadvantages to being really fast. Sure you get to act a lot, but that's a lot more END your spending before your Post-Segment 12 recovery.
For languages it would have been more prudent to use the Language Fluency table (HSV1, pg 80). That language table you're showing is optional and not standard. It's also easier to understand if you look at the color version which is in the PDF version I have. For the normal scale it's 1 to 5 points for your ability to use any language and how well you speak it. Easy peasy. So you're spending a lot of time harping on something that you're not expected to use.
I've also heard you say a few times that a good advantage for a gun is armor piercing, but I think a better one is Autofire which allows you to make several attacks with one attack roll. A gun would most likely be built as a Killing Attack, which already requires a special type of defense to defend against it. Armor Piercing would make sense for a special kind of ammo with a gun, but I think you find more guns that fire quickly instead of through armor. Of course both make sense, it just depends on how you define the power.
So you say several times that there is something wrong with this system, but I would rebut with I think it's more so your understanding of the system. I love making characters in this system too, so I hope I can help you find some more ease in your process!
Brand, please email the Legion. I would like to talk to you more about this (just for the record, not angry or hurt).
I could see variable power pool working if the changes in combat are simple. Like if you have an aid and you change the characteristic it effects.
That wouldn't take long, and if you had a short list it'd work similarly to a multipower, but with slightly more flexibility.
True, but multiple players with VPPs (even simple ones) can turn into a big time-sink. This issue gets better with experienced players and a knowledgeable GM. Once a group is at a certain level of experience, VPPs can flow pretty well. Until then, several players 'mathing-out' in the same round will take forever!
Avarickan 🎲 Thank you for watching and for your comment, we really appreciate it. 🔮
If you think this video has merit, please share it with your TTRPG friends and community. For a small channel like ours, this helps us more than people know.
For more tabletop RPG videos, please take a look here: ua-cam.com/channels/N5pMxx-V67R2SeTqVZmg3Q.htmlplaylists?view=50&sort=dd&shelf_id=15
*May all of your adventures be fun and memorable.*
I picked up the system easily. I also found combat to be fast. Considering how much damage your throwing around vs how much is being soaked up.
My group had combat fast enough to have several separate combats in a single session.
It looks complicated but really is no more complicated than most other systems. Less actually.
I find many of the newer "rules light" systems are far more complicated, with rules that actually get in the way of play.
When I encountered Champions I just watched the first couple of times, then asked if I could borrow a book and I created my 1st character, an electrical energy projector, in about 30 minutes. It's only a hard system to learn if math above 4th grade level is difficult for you.
EDIT: Or you have the creative ability of Amazon or Disney.
@@kevinsullivan3448 bwahahahq
Language chart is optional.
True, but it is so comically convoluted that I had to talk about it.
Your thing with the speed chart was wrong. Or a dumb particular of 6e.
Once combat begins. There is no rolling from round to round. Just your order on the chart.
If you drop your spd for a round(12 phases), you are at that spd for the round, and baring any interference should be able to increase it to normal as a zero phaze action in phaze 12.
You can only change your effective speed in a phase when your actual speed and the speed you want to change to share a phase. So it's both inconvenient and complicates the game to change speeds.
@@kevinsullivan3448 I get where you might find it inconvenient, but how does having to do so on a shared spd make it more complicated?
Seems to me, it would be far more complicated to do it out of a shared phase.
You really need to look back at 5th edition. Which is the culmination of all previous ed being cleaned up and coalesced into one system.
The biggest changes were made between 5th and 6th and caused a lot of consternation. In fact it was so bad that Hero fully supports 5e. Which is the superior system.
Six made several stats pointless by severing derived stats from their controlling primary stat.
I get the impression they were trying to emulate Mutants and Masterminds.
Which is just a bad system.
I think the things that are bothering you are pretty minor. Its not bad to have high standards, but there are experienced players in your chat telling you it works fine. Maybe respect that? Your rebuttal is "if you have to excuse it, it's wrong." You seem to have a "you should have your cake and eat it too" mentality. Ok, great. What is your solution? What is the way that you can get massive customization without it being crunchy? Pitch your idea. Sell it. Let's see it!
He didn't say that, he said "massive customization always leads to massive clunkiness". He wasn't saying there was a solution, just that one needs the other.
If I had a solution I would sell it. I don't. My point is that if you have to apologize about your system, it isn't good.
@@heathendog9749 You simply cannot say that, it's too subjective. You cannot state that it objectively isn't good. Sure, the audience is smaller because of its technical specifics, but not objectively good or bad.
Sadly, this game gets outshined by DnD and Pathfinder ( both of which are great games ).
This sounds a lot like Mutants and Masterminds.
It does. Champions goes back 40 years so you'll find similarities between Champs and newer games like M&M.
"Mutants & Masterminds sounds a lot like Champions"
Fixed that for you.
@@vaele723 Accurate.
6E is trash. Play 3rd or 5th.
Hi, can you tell me why 6e is bad compare to the 5e?
@@samuelrodrigues8582 It's not. It actually fixes a lot of things. People get stuck in their editions. The biggest complaint against 6e honestly is it reads like a textbook.