How The Last Jedi Defies Expectations About Male Heroes
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- Help me make more videos! / popdetective
The Last Jedi is a movie that’s designed to defy fan expectations. Nowhere is this subversion more evident than in the way the film handles its three male heroes: X-Wing pilot Poe Dameron, renegade Stormtrooper Finn, and legendary Jedi Knight Luke Skywalker.
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TEXT TRANSCRIPT
Coming soon!
FOOTAGE USED:
• Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)
• Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)
• Star Wars: Return of the Jedi (1983)
• Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back (1980)
• Star Wars: A New Hope (1977)
• The Director and The Jedi (2018)
• The Avengers (2015)
• Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)
• Avatar (2009)
• The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002)
• The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)
• Independence Day (1996)
• Jurassic World (2015)
• Goldfinger (1964)
• Tron Legacy (2010)
• The Matrix (1999)
OTHER ARTICLES ABOUT THE LAST JEDI:
• The Beautiful, Ugly, and Possessive Hearts of Star Wars:
observer.com/2018/07/film-crit...
• Toxic Masculinity Is the True Villain of The Last Jedi
www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/st...
• The Last Jedi: Saving Star Wars from Itself:
lareviewofbooks.org/article/t...
• The Last Jedi Offers the Harsh Condemnation of Mansplaining
www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/...
COMMENTS
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FAIR USE
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CREDITS
Writer/Producer: Jonathan McIntosh
Motion Graphics: Jonathan McIntosh
Logo Design: Justin McIntosh
Outro music: Jonathan Mann
/ jonathanmann
Help us caption & translate this video!
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I can't tell you how satisfying it was to see a hotshot pilot actually being held accountable for disobeying orders.
The only thing I genuinely dislike about the film is the forced romance between Finn and Rose. Seriously, I never felt any kind of romantic undertones between them until the moment of the actual kiss.
Andrew LaMore I don't think their relationship was intended to be romantic at all, actually. They never really showed any kind of romantic affection for one another, and I think that was sort of the whole point. I see it more as a sort of brother-sister relationship. As for the kiss, I think that was more along the lines of "I'm probably gonna die, so I may as well out out kissing someone. You aren't what I expected, but better you than no one." You know what I mean? We should probably wait till Ep.9 to see how it all plays out....
One kiss. That's it.
Andrew LaMore that, and the meandering Canto Bight arc. That coulda been handled better. Other than that, TLJ was near-perfect in my opinion
Andrew LaMore I agree. I try to think of that as a friendship kiss, even though that’s not really what it is.
Andrew LaMore yeah me too that’s they only thing I didn’t like about the film. Overall love the movie
This film basically confronts some dudes with the notion, if not realization that yes, maybe their mother WAS right to send them to their room as a kid, that she does know better, not unlike Poe's two space moms. And there is nothing they hate having to hear more than that.
That would've actually been good, except it was not. The film had logical inconsistencies that unfortunately ended up undermining that message.
I disagree with almost everything you said. The movie might have a sound message, but tells it so poorly and "illogical" that it failed almost completely in my eyes.
Okay but that was absolutely perfect use of Kylo's freakout. I don't think I'll ever see those clips used better than that.
Nitpick: You forgot to mention that the "Heroic Self-Sacrifice Blaze of Glory" DOES happen in this movie, and done by a woman. Not Rose, but Holdo.
I found the film really frustrating to watch because I felt like it was repeatedly wasting my time by building up plots only to have one "gotcha" after another to reveal that none of the set up plots would even matter...I haven't really thought about the film much since then, but this video makes me want to go back and see how the very things that, frankly, pissed me off on first watch might actually be strengths. Interesting video as per usual
I mean, it's a great video essay but no amount of intention can fix the poor writing. The Last Jedi is great for introducing possibilities, but not great at successfully exploring those possibilities.
I think most people actually disliked Holdo because she refused to tell anyone her plan for some reason, even though it was perfectly reasonable, so the whole tension of the second arc: Poe trying to deal with not being in control, is completely unnecessary. Just from the folks that I've talked to, that seems to be the true reason behind people's distaste for Holdo
Tbh I really dislike that it’s the women’s job to make men better people- that happens a lot in media (and real life, such as being forced into the role of a man’s therapist, notably in relationships).
It’s annoying how men get to grow and have arcs but women often either stay the same, are sidelined, or are killed for the sake of developing the man’s character.
I was expecting you would also talk about how Rey and Kylo's relationship defied expectations. The woman doesn't end up curing the violent man by "loving him in just the right way" as you put it in the Abduction Romance video. Rey was pretty much representative of the audience who were used to that trope and expected the bad guy to be saved by finding love, then being shocked when it doesn't work.
That’s a whole other long video. One I might make after episode 9 comes out.
Nice. Your videos are awesome. I look forward to seeing more.
Dude I love that, nobody ever talks about how obviously emotionally manipulative Kylo Ren is and how most people buy his sad boy act. But the first scene he’s in mentions he came from love that’s the truth and what makes him a good villain he chooses evil, which subverts the trope of villain with a sympathetic backstory.
I admit, I *really* wanted Kylo to turn good and join Rey, and I felt deep disappointment when he didn't. Having said that, I still enjoyed the movie, and gosh was that red fight scene amazing - I love watching team ups like that :) And, given all the other subversions this movie included, it makes sense that their force connection wouldn't sway him. It *is* utterly cliche.
I'm looking forward for that video so much!
I had not considered this movie from this perspective, and I find myself troubled by how I was made uncomfortable by how the movie unfolded. This video offers far more valuable insights than other UA-cam reviews that merely suggest that Rian Johnson did things wrong, and I am happy to be a new Patreon subscriber as a result.
hey bro, what's up. I gotta say you have a cute face.
Yeah I loved the video too :)
i'm floored. you literally just changed my mind on this movie after almost a year of viscerally hating it. well done my dude.
My job here is done ;)
Hey loved that bit of editing when you mention '.. scrutiny toward female characters..' and Kylo menacingly asks "..what girl!?" 😄
Great analysis. It does still bother me that Finn needed Rose’s teaching about the abuses of the galactic “upper crust”, particularly wrt the use of child slavery. He is a child soldier himself, after all
The use of the Kylo rage scene was genius tbh. Great timing. "WHAT GIRL?!"
This was interesting! I like a lot of the film's ideas, but wasn't in love with the execution. The Poe plot was a big one. I loved him getting called out, but then disliked how the narrative had the rebellion leadership expecting blind faith for no given reason. After all, they would eventually have to reveal the plan, so why wait? I think this could have been fixed by having the leadership think that they were being tracked due to a spy, which would have completely justified why they couldn't tell the crew and, instead, needed them to just trust the leaders. Little fixes like that would have made this movie great. As is, it's a lot of good ideas executed in mediocre ways.
Loved the use of Kylo Ren to represent the creepy fanboys who don’t do anything else than to be angry at everything the new movies are doing
But, when you think about it, the Last Jedi is a movie where hundreds of people died because of a parking violation...
Why can't I find negative comments? I would have expected a lot more critical comments with the rating this video has.
This most be a REALLY heavily moderate comment section.
Seeing and hearing you cut through all of the negativity of the film to discover what made it so special genuinely gave me hope! Your analysis are so dang fantastic. Thank you, Pop Culture Detective
I absolutely cannot stand the outdated and sexist movie cliche of the outspoken female character being put in her place and learning to respect the reckless and arrogant male character’s authority. That’s why watching Jurassic World and Gaurdians of the Galaxy (the first one at least) was frustrating for me.
(I really like Chris Pratt as an actor, but it’s unfortunate that he plays so many douchebag characters.)
I feel like GotG is a weird one here. Quill is certainly immature, and to some extent the audience is supposed to find that relatable and endearing. But at the same time, he's not rewarded for those traits in the same way other characters (such as Pratt's Owen Grady in Jurassic World) are. He doesn't "get the girl", and in fact his immaturity clearly causes him problems in his relationships with other people. But the films don't really seem to have that as a message, just something that happens, and that causes kind of a jarring contrast with the tone of "this guy is still an admirable and good person".
the Harrison Ford of our time
Well, at least for Chris Pratt's character, his reckless decisions, carry implicating far reaching consequences in Infinity War.
I like this video a lot. I do have one question I'd like to hear your thoughts on.
In the Alien franchise, Ripley is the protagonist (in the good movies), but she doesn't stay in the shadow of any Male protagonist (because there isn't as much of any Male protagonist). She also doesn't necessarily take any actions that could be seen as emasculating (although the titular aliens can be seen as somewhat emasculating given the rape allegories). But I don't usually hear people upset at Alien or Aliens. Is this because Ripley isn't actively dismantling our expectations of masculine characters? Is it because the movie is old enough to withstand criticism from the same people who would be mad at it if it came out today? Or is it something else I'm not considering? I'd like to hear your perspective.
Regarding Poe, the problem I have with his consequence is that it’s more than just alluded to that the dreadnought would make their situation worse later. This idea is vindicated by the fact that the hyperspace tracking and fuel shortage would have made them particularly easy prey for that ship. I like the idea of characters not being rewarded for their recklessness, but he wasn’t really proven wrong in his actions in that first battle sequence. The big problem overall is that subversion is made for subversion’s sake, even if the actual logic of the situation defies it.
At least you didn’t turn comments off. Respect for staying true - a guy who politely disagrees.
I don't disagree with how you interpreted the characters and their arcs in this movie. It helped me to see how subversive these tropes are played out in this film and how new and exciting it ease to see all these strong female characters. But what I think the film lacks on is a cohesive narrative structure with many of the parts feeling out of place in the film and carrying few significant impacts on the narrative as a whole which is why I was left feeling slightly confused and like this movie was longer than it needed to be. Great video and great breakdown of the character though.
You're just repeating the "the fans hate it cause a woman (of color, no less) told a man what to do". You can't just keep preaching to your choir. It sucks, because I think you made a lot of good points here, but I don't think many people will be able to get passed your insults. To some degree, that is on them, I agree. But I fear too many of us are downplaying the severity of such accusations of bigotry.
I just wish they had given as much time and development to Rey. The protagonist.
I think she does. That’s just not what this video is about.
I've liked this movie from the start, but even I thought they were misrepresenting Luke's character. Now that you point out the connections between his character flaws in this movie and the previous ones, you've made me realize how wrong I was. Love your work man.
In terms of the romanticism surrounding sacrifice I can’t agree more. Dunkirk also challenges expectations about these kind of sacrifices.
If Game of Thrones taught me anything it's that Subversion doesn't make good stories. Good stories may subvert expectations, but subversion is not a recipe for success ...
I agree with some things, but I don't agree with a lot of things in your video.
I had this massive comment all typed out, but in the middle of it I just kind of went "What's even the point?" I doubt that I'll get any conversation or discussion since this video is rather old, but I did just wanna throw my thoughts out for the sake of "why not?" As much as I love your analyses on the film, and as much as I agree with how amazing the story threads you spoke about _sound_ on paper, I still fundamentally disagree with the conclusion about The Last Jedi. I think there might be promising _ideas_ in it, but the way it was delivered through writing and directing leave much to be desired. I was actually genuinely expecting subversions to occur, but honestly (as many even point out) the subversions that occurred felt less as a result of careful writing and more of a result from rushed ideas. I actually wasn't a fan of Star Wars before episode 7. It was that movie that brought me on board. To me, I didn't really have that deep of an attachment to the characters like most old fans. I'd like to think this means this gives me some sense of unbiased perspective on what Episode 8 did. I was one of the few that never saw Rey as a "mary sue" despite how she beat Kylo. Hell, I actually loved that Kylo was some emotional, unstable villain who was just _trying_ to be like Vader. Unfortunately, Episode 8 was the film to essentially knock me out of the franchise.
This was a masterful analysis, but I always thought Finn would know whether or not his "suicide run" would work? After all, he's the only person there who actually knew what the battering ram was, so I trusted his assessment over Poe's or Rose'
Any thoughts on that?
to the people who think he is talking about EVERYONE who disliked TLJ: you didn't listen to the start of the video. He is very clear, this is about the hardcore, die hard male fans who for some reason seem to be enraged by this movie (the same way they were by TFA). If you think they don't exist just go to twitter, just watch the crazy fans who are making a kickstarter believing they actually can remake TLJ with Disney's approval. The comments and RTs complaining about a "SJW" agenda, calling Rey a whore, Finn obligatory diversity, just look at the racist and sexist tsunami that led Kelly Marie Tran to leave twitter. If you are not one of those people, it's not about you, chill
I do enjoy your videos but I find your analysis on the film a tad condescending, not only to me, but to the audience you're trying to enlighten on the subject. Make no mistake, you make some very good points about male roles in cinema, and how TLJ subverts them. When doing so, scoping in on the details blurs the bigger picture of the film and that film's universe as a whole, as a film should be critiqued.
Poe sacrificed a lot to destroy the Dreadnought because of the implication it has on the Universe as a whole.It is a dire time for this rebellion, because of that reason the line is really blurred as to who's decision was the correct one. I think Poe sees fighting the first order and saving the Resistance as the same thing. If he continues to fight, and beat the odds, he will inspire more to fight another day; across the galaxy it isn't just, "a woman told me no but I'm going to do it anyway." His motivation has always been to ignite the galaxy against the first order. To dismiss that isn't just to the character. Is the message then to blindly follow orders from your superior? That's something the First Order would expect. Holdo is the one who pushes Poe to the point of desperation he gets to for what? Regardless of a spy or not, it would not have made a difference, why not communicate anything at all to prevent a mutiny?
While on the note of Holdo, you point out the trope of characters sacrificing themselves for the greater good. While Finn may fail his attempt to save the Resistance from his point of view, Holdo does it a few scenes prior, and it's portrayed exactly how you criticize it in your video.
That is why I didn't like TLJ. The film consistently flips on any new ideas it presents to the franchise. From my perspective, the film shines when it presents the idea of destroying the past in the name of moving forward. This opens a dialogue of interesting ideas: What role does the past serve to the future? Should the past be preserved, if so, how much? How important is it to learn from the past? Luke suggests that the traditional role of the jedi, the traditional role of the emotionless, masculine figure should be destroyed (through the destruction of the original jedi teachings) but what does Yoda say? "There is nothing in there that the girl doesn't already possess." That's right, Rey is the one who is now perpetuating the cycle of Light vs. Dark in the galaxy. She is now the one continuing the cycle of war. Ben killed his father very close to this film, is that why he hesitates to kill his mother? He is never given an opportunity to soak in the consequences of what he's done, and how that affects him as a person. To divert for a moment before I finish, I also like how TFA had a return to the practical effect world of StarWars, if you watch both back to back, it is easy to notice that some characters who were practical in TFA were then mostly CGI in TLJ (Poe's wingman comes to mind here). To conclude, instead of moving toward the future of the franchise, TLJ has interesting ideas and just sets the same board at the end of the day for a sequel.
What's that UA-cam? A new episode of Pop Culture Detective? I was just about to go to sleep but I happily delay it for this!
I think you're being a tad unfair to those who hated the characterization of Luke in TLJ. Their perception of what Luke ought to be like isn't colored solely by the image on masculinity in the media, but also by all the Star Wars tie-in novels they had grown up reading about Luke. (To be fair, the writers of those novels were probably influenced by traditional depictions of masculinity, so the big picture of your criticism holds.) Disney might declare that those novels are no longer canon, but fans cannot erase the memories of characters they have come to love. The downside of retconning, I suppose.
That being said, this video did blow my mind when it showed me just how neatly the major targets of fan outrage line up with a female character challenging the masculinity of male characters.
I do appreciate Rian Johnson subverting expectations and all, but the story we were promised in TFA was the casualty of this effort. I loved TFA and was so excited for TLJ. I was like Rey at the end of TFA, waiting in anticipation to see what would happen next, what would Luke do with the lightsaber. When he tossed it over his shoulder, it was like Rian Johnson said, "Sorry you waited 2 years for this, but I'm not interested in telling you the story you came here to see." And that was disappointing. Ultimately, I blame Disney and Kathleen Kennedy for not having a unified vision for the trilogy. If they chose to have different directors, they should have reined them in more to maintain consistency. If they wanted to give the director more freedom, then let them do the whole trilogy.
If Rian Johnson gets his own trilogy, I would look forward to it. His ideas were great. I didn't like it when he took over a story started by someone else and denied me the story I was promised (by that I mean - he tossed all the interesting plot points and mysteries from TFA in the trash), but I would be interested in watching his own story that he tells from start to finish.
I am so glad I put the time to watch this. It's so nice.
Awesome analysis dude! I learned a lot, thanks!
I loved this movie, even though it had some horrible flaws, but I had never considered this take. It's a really good video and it makes me enjoy the movie a little bit more. Well done
I know I'm late to the party, but after having my mind blown by ths video I just have to comment. I'm female, but because I'm just as used to these movie tropes as anyone else, I fell into many of the same traps as the angry male fans. I didn't even realize this until now. The first time I watched TLJ I didn't like it very much, but I am now gradually gaining so much more respect and love for this movie because of videos like this one right here. Keep up the great work!
Personally I think the movie did have a lot of big problems (like Fin and Rose's part in the story not doing anything to affect the plot) but you're making me see some of it's good points.
Dude your editing on this was absolutely top notch. I love everything you do in general, but the editing here was incredible. Great job.
Thanks for making these!
I, being a girl who has watched the least amount of action movies possible, would like to counter that perhaps the hatred towards these plot points aren't entirely based upon the hurt egos of men or the feelings that the power dynamics are reversed, since I found Rose and Holdo both slightly frustrating in my first viewing. There was definitely room to expand on them, and the plots given to them weren't entirely helpful (the casino bit was somewhat out of place in my opinion). But I did appreciate the Luke and Rey aspect. Both characters were very interesting in all the scenes they were shown in, and their story specifically had me interested down to the very end.
I'd really love to see you do a Black Widow video or perhaps a look at how Scarlett is depicted across her vast filmography.
This is a really smart video. So many points I know are true but have never analyzed or articulated.
Thank you so much for all your awesome videos ! And with this video the film makes so much more sense now, I have to watch it again.
Excellent exposition, Pop Culture Detective! I love this video essay and how well you articulated the ideas.
Looking forward to those next projects!
Aha, that''s what i'm missing. Thanks bud. Subbed
Very insightful. It's blows my mind that I hadn't noticed the male-female dynamics of the film, it's such an immediately compelling perspective.
Really cool video! important aswell i'm sharing it with all my friends
I love your videos and I very much agree with this one.. so I've hesitated in asking this:
why are women the Moral Compass ?
it seems to me like a recurring trope(?) in duos of rascal-quick-to-act male protagonist and wise-female sidekick (Ben10 comes to mind)
It can be a tad tiring...
Or I may just have to watch the movie again, idk..
Amazing video.I love your insight and how articulately you express such topic
Wow, that was fantastic... Thank you!
This a beautiful video essay. I really loved it (and shared it) Congrats!
excelent as always!
thanks for these videos, man. ♥
This video makes a really good point! As a female fan, however, I was thoroughly disappointed and frustrated by TLJ, specifically because of Rey and Kylo's relationship. In TFA, he KILLED her only father figure (Han Solo) *right in front of her* and THEN tried to kill her, why would she try to "redeem" him? Did Rian Johnson rip that arc from a Reylo fanfic?
OH, wonderful video! This channel is a bastion of quality and meaningful insight into media!
Thank you so much for another amazing video essay. You are making a difference for many people, and for me
I've been waiting for you to do this for a year!!
I love your videos. You are very observant and articulate in your findings. You are among my 5 favorite UA-camrs. Thanks for all the hard work you put into your videos.
Also, I like the new logo.
This video shared a whole new perspective and I appreciate the hell out of it. It's good to acknowledge unconscious bias and sometimes a slap to the face works. Didn't for me in the theater but I know next time I watch this movie it'll be from a different place.
It's so hard to find a positive review of "The Last Jedi." Even though I didn't like it (for different reasons), I really like your interpretation and I think that may be what they were going for. Good job!
This is fantastic, thank you so much! You might be the first person / project I support on Patreon - this work is vital to myself and the culture at large. 💜
Your videos are absolutely phenomenal. I was going to say amazing but it didn't seem enough.
The videos you are planning sound brilliant. I can't wait for them!
I love how articulate and analytical you are. You put so many complex ideas into words in such a straight forward. You make it plain and simple. Your use of video clips reinforce your narrative perfectly.
Keep up the amazing work!
Fantastic. I think you nailed it. I love the use of the clips. It is all perfect.
Wonderful points made! I've been a huge fan of this movie since release and you helped me really be able to point at it and actually defend it! Its hard to remember things you love when everyone tells you its awful!
Your interpretation of the female and male relationship dynamics of the movie is so compelling that it does away a lot to alleviate the issues I thought I had with the film. Fucking bravo, holy shit.
Hey, this is coming from a guy who liked the Last Jedi. There's a bit of problem with the idea that the Canto Bight sequence established a need for the resistance. The last movie already established the need for the resistance by showing the First Order blow up a planet of billions of innocent civilians. While the stuff going on Canto Bite is morally awful, it's not nearly as bad as killing billions of innocent people. I suppose one could make the argument that showing the Canto bite scene was a way to give Finn a real reason to join the Resistance, but, again, the first order just killed millions of civilians. That would be pretty good incentive. Maybe it's just a nitpick but, that kind of bothers me.
The difference is that the destruction of the Hosnian System in Force Awakens is very impersonal, yes it’s awful but in an abstract way and therefore it has little emotional impact. The sequence on Canto Bight, on the other hand, is very personal. It make the First Order’s oppression personal and tangible and adds a political and moral dimension that wasn’t there before.
I love your analysis. Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for this essay! Impressive analysis and it gave a new lens as to why I quite liked this movie.
A fantastic vid. Thank you. You managed to put into words, calmly and with examples, things I've only been able to blurt to myself in dark corners of my mind.
I also liked the Canto Bight commentary through Rose's eyes... Then, of course, the final kicker: the stable boy using The Force to bring the broom to him, and gazing up at the night sky, wondering.
I was young when the original movies came out, yet it wasn't until this new trilogy did Star Wars finally feel like... Well, MINE. Let's hope JJ tops it off well.
This is my FAVORITE UA-cam channel. I only wish the videos were more often, but I understand that quality takes time.
This was a really rad, insightful episode. Well done.
Thank you so much for this!
Thank you for this wonderfully insightful essay.
This was pretty good. I'm both pleasantly surprised and upraised by this whole explaination.
dang. now maybe ill watch this movie. couldnt be bothered before I saw this essay.
Great video, but it made me think: it seems the main role of the women in this movie was the advancement of the men's character arcs. It seems you can't win. Or at least, you can't have a movie that does everything.
I am always blown away at how great your videos are and how much I learn.
your commentary has given me a whole other level of appreciation for this movie
Even tho your channel seems to be more of a focus on discussing the sociological sides of film and television and such, I would really love to hear you give a review of The Rise of Skywalker. I feel like you can discuss films in a very intelligent and academic way.
Very much considering it.
That was so well written! I always get excited when I see one of your videos. Amazing job as always!
I HATED this movie when it came out. I want to sit down and rewatch it after watching your video.
I walked into the cinema and wanted Luke to be Gandalf, and Rae to be the new Luke, and Po to have his shit together - but throwing the saber away then sucking milk out of a cows tit, and the joke scene of the first order. Like, "your mama" telephone jokes. It was. Awful. but I'll try watch it again. Maybe I should be more aware of my own bias. Maybe as a woman, that bias is what's holding me back.
I've seen reviews and stuff complaining about how movies/videogames are "catering to SJWs" which is basically their way of saying "women are made equal to men and I hate it." I'm very glad that this movie exists, not only because of how great it is anyways, but how it challenges all of the stereotypes that you just described. Thank you for making this video :)
i´s so happy for found this channel!!
I swear these are the best essays on UA-cam. Thanks.
I still think this TLJ is poorly made and unnecessarily subversive, but at least you've given me a more positive way of looking at it. So thank you.
This video is wonderful, and you're wonderful for having made it
I love this a billion trillion times. In fact, now I have to go to Patreon. Keep it up!
I love it when you upload! Thanks! See you in three months ;)
THANK. YOU. FOR. THIS. *two thumbs up*
GREAT VIDEO!!
Love your vids❤️
Good video, dude.
Really insightful video, good to see someone taking a sensible approach and observation.
Great Work!