NASTY ARGUMENT between Cessna Pilot and Vegas ATC! | Busted Bravo Airspace
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- Опубліковано 24 чер 2020
- Date: 20/JUN/2020
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![[REAL ATC] An UNRULY AIR MARSHAL forces emergency landing!](/img/n.gif)
I listened to previous communications and this ATC never gave him permission to enter Class B and I dont think any previous controllers did. Crossing KLAS 26 localizers like that... dangerous!!
can you post the earlier stuff?
Jamieson Gradert Not true. Class D and Class C require you to establish communications, so yes, you could enter unless you’re specifically told not to. To enter a class B VFR, you must be specifically cleared into it by the controller. If you are IFR, you have already received clearance as part of the IFR clearance you received on the ground.
@@GradertJ No in the US you need clearance into Bravo if you are VFR. Its different if you are IFR but that was not the case here. So no he was not allowed to be inside Class B airspace.
@@GradertJ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspace_class_(United_States) for reference see the section about Bravo airspace...
@@Noilburger Wikipedia is not an accurate source to quote.
To the pilot that called him an a**hole... you’re my hero.
I second this.
calling him an a**hole was being a tad too polite IMHO.
The distinct lack of a callsign is important for that type of transmission haha
yea, someone had to check that pilot; dude flying rogue. calling him a$$hole puts it mildly.
@@LIMDQ This I totally agree with!!
“N1NR, bring your pilots license and a book of matches to the base of the tower.”
Probably doesn’t have one or feel the need to carry it.
No matches needed - “N1NR, bring your pilots license base of the tower, drop your pants and bend over!"
Right!?!? This guy us a nut!
Negative, wind shear too high, request a zippo
Further conversation regarding Zippo:
ATC: Zippo approved. N1NR: MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY. Zippo out of fuel. ATC: Facepalm
"I cant copy I'm flying" I spit my water lmaoooooo. Sound like a GTA trained pilot.
I disagree. I'm a trained GTA pilot and could easily copy a number down while flying in GTA.
Or one of the flight sim multiplayer trolls.
More like got his license with a 6-pack of beer
Something is gravely wrong here. Completely unbelievable, even though I heard it with my own ears! Thank God for a cool, calm, & collective ATC, that somehow went on with her day directing other pilots! Well everyone knows his butt was roasted after landing, taken into custody, & an immediate revocation of his PPL was issued! "Dope ain't no joke"!, What an idiot
Pilot in Sacramento literally said "I don't have a pen"
“You are on a direct collision course with a 747, you need to turn east immediately”
Cessna pilot: No! Im flying!
Negative, I was here first!
Cessna pilot:. I'm flying...
"Well, tell the 747 to move!!"
🤣
N1NR: negative, I'm flying.
USAF F16: You need to exit the bravo immediately or you will be fired upon.
N1NR:Approach, give me vectors to exit Bravo
Comms can be noisy, mistakes can be made and tempers can flare, but safety is paramount. Refusing to comply with ATC commands because you're angry is just crazy.
No such thing as implied clearance into Bravo airspace for VFR. This is not even something you can argue. IFR flights are cleared in advance by ATC.
@@GradertJ He had NO clearance. Nothing more to it.
No matter what he has been told earlier doesnt matter in this case - If his current ATC tells him no its no. He has the right to ask for permit but she is in charge of her airspace. J.
@@GradertJ Not if he's VFR
You must explicitly request clearance through the bravo in a VFR flight. No such thing as implied. And also, even if he made an honest mistake and thought he was cleared in, “exit the bravo immediately” should have told him otherwise
Someone let me know when his centurion is for sale..
Best assumption.
See if you can have him autograph it for posterity.
@@87knox Yes! Then have that Controller put her autograph next to it. 😂
Too late, I purchased it for nil.
Best comment ever!
I listened to the phone conversation with the tower afterwards, and he was appropriately apologetic there. I think he realized he screwed up and didn't have a clearance. He apparently had a sick kid who had to go to the bathroom really badly. It appears, however, based on the FAA database that he did lose his license for his trouble, as there's a flag that states the certificate may no longer be valid. This is not surprising. You cannot bust Bravo, be defiant, refuse to follow ATC clearances, and then just walk away unscathed. His attitude was completely out of bounds and created a risk to other aircraft in the area.
How did you listen to the phone conversation with the tower?
@@oldRighty1 someone posted in a forum thread posted a link to the audio clip that they got through FOIA.
@@vsavatar can you link please? I'd love to hear that
@@arbitrage2141 I did once before, but apparently it was removed for some reason. I probably shouldn't do it again.
You can find it by Googling the pilot's name though.
I love how the one pilot said "good luck!" to the controller dealing with that idiot before switching over to the other frequency.
LIMA OSCAR LIMA
@@SomeRandomGuy789 I see what you did there!
Rules are written, if you ask for a class B authorization and they deny it is for a reason you just don't do what ever you want in the air. this guy is a very dangerous pilot and should have his license revoked
Really, all he needed to do was descend earlier or swing a bit to the south for a few extra track miles ... you don't HAVE to enter the Bravo to get to Henderson, and given how little extra effort it is, you shouldn't even plan for it!
Chris Schack I love reading comments like yours. It gives a better picture of how badly of a screwup this was. Especially since he could get to his destination by just descending!
Amen
Adam Exactly this pilot made it much worse than it needed to be. This would not have been an issue if he just stayed under the shelf.
When you openly/willfully/dangerously defy av regs while flying (and especially in class Bravo) you lose the privilege of holding any certification. Extreme case of narssiccisstic behavior.
That pilot’s behavior and refusal to comply with ATC is not acceptable. I hope he loses his license.
looses?
Brian Chandler I’m sure he meant lose/revoke his license
Loses*
There, their, they're it'll be ok grammar Nazi. We know that typo's are unacceptable here.
chrome book it’s funny. I checked the registration number and not only has that plane not taken off since... it’s registered under a business.... Wife Approved, LLC. What an asshole.
Amidst all the quite justified roasting of this incredible asshole of a pilot, remember to give some kudos to the controller. Not only did she keep her cool dealing with this pilot, but she also kept her full situational awareness. She kept doing her whole job, paying attention to every plane under her control rather than fixating on the one violator. Fixating on the violator is an easy trap to fall into (see the 1986 Los Cerritos crash), especially one that's being as breathtakingly outrageous as this one was.
This is true. I think often ATC defaults to the role of "tone setter" in the air. Once the air of professionalism is lost, people stop listening to each other, mistakes get made, then people get hurt.
Probably also helped to reset her mental by giving regular run-of-the-mill instructions to the other aircraft before going back to Mr. I Fly Wherever I Want.
Yep. Exactly. A real pro.
Just watched this episode of Mayday. And yeah, it’s a good thing the controller was able to keep everything going. But it does illustrate why no one should bust bravo: you don’t want to be the person who becomes the fatal distraction. The rookie controller wouldn’t have been in position to make that mistake in the first place if the two Aer Dinguses had stayed OUT of their airspace in the first place. The violator the guy fixated on got actual charges for his recklessness, if I understood what they said on that episode correctly.
You can compare her to Walter white for example, he was so distracted by a bravo buster that he didn’t see Aeromexico 498 colliding with a triangle
FWIW, there's a slight typo on the captioning: ATC says "Nobody clears you through the Bravo but me." She's saying, "this is my airspace, and only I can clear you through it," which is correct. She's not saying "nobody cleared you", she's saying in response to his assertion that someone else cleared him through it that that is BS because nobody but she can do it.
Yep. That's an important point.
@@andytaylor1588 but it seems like he was NOT going to take NO for an answer
Thank you for clearing that up. Originally, it sounded like she was saying she did clear him, but neither ATC nor that pilot seemed to acknowledge that he was cleared.
Busting Bravo was bad. But with a little courtesy, he could have easily recovered. Any decent pilot would have simply apologized immediately and followed ATC instructions and that probably would have been the end of it. He really went from negligent to criminal when he explicitly refuses ATC direction. This is insanely dangerous and warrants more than a deviation. Suspension or revocation seem appropriate, not simply for the busted bravo, but for becoming a danger to others by treating ATC with hostile disregard.
i’ve been through houston bravo on accident and the Houston Controllers don’t mind because i entered the furthest ring and 25 feet over the shelf, and no traffic at that area... they actually let me maneuver at that shelf 😂 at 4k or less
I mean, directly refusing atc clearances in bravo airspace is insane.
ATC is responsible to seperation between airplanes both VFR and IFR in bravo airspace. Not complying should be reason enough to get jets scrambled.
@@StBeter-tc2te OK. So what's the point of that anecdote?
Jickles Jingles he was just sharing his own personal story
@@jicklesjingles8134 the point is if you are a decent human being , admit to your mistake, and remain humble ATC might just forgive you without giving you that phone number
Well we found the male Karen of the sky
Darren, the bane of McCarran.
I believe ATC was female.
Those kinds of people are called, “Chad’s”
Who's Karen?
you assume "their" gender?
...and he cried to the other controller and got an apology for HER service!!! Unreal!!
The other controller was from Henderson Tower who was unlikely to have heard any of the conversations of LAS Approach. It’s like complaining to a store manager about the service you got at another store of the same company. They will be as professional as possible. To me that’s another level of entitlement; don’t complain to the direct party and complain to another party to try to get sympathy.
He even said he didn’t know what happened so
Tom Huff controller number 2 was definitely a guy...
@Tom Huff Was just letting you know. That's all, Sir. Hope I didn't offend you in anyway!
@@minnowshark The operative phrase in the Henderson controller's response is "I don't know what happened, but from what you say."
Area 51: "LEAVE IMMEDIATELY!"
That pilot: " Negative, I'm flying!"
Area 51: "We don't know why that pilot was never heard from again."
I’ve heard rumours of NATO exercises flying out of Nellis AFB and training over Nevada. One of the foreign pilots accidentally flew over Area 51 on his way back to Nellis. Probably cutting a corner of his return route.
Apparently he was put on the first airline flight back home the next day and kicked off the exercise.
“That is not appropriate language.” 🤣
"That is not appropriate flying", somebody could've answered him.
@@javiercaselli Exactly! Like "You shut up and listen to that lady boss over there in the ATC lad!" Johan
I would say it's totally appropriate and in line with his conduct
Since when an accurate depiction of the reality is not appropriate language? The guy IS an asshole!
It is definitely telling the truth with kind of dangerous flying. Geez.
this needs to be turned into a meme
"advise when ready to copy"
"I'm not ready to copy. I'm flying!"
Pilot: “I’m flying.”
ATC: “But not for much longer.”
@@fdzaviation yeah it kinda went viral already, imagine purchasing that aircraft one day. You need to change the registration lol
r/shittyaskflying
@@kennyr5906 ..or an addendum of NO, and not November Oscar, but New Owner.
I busted Vegas Bravo a few years back while doing practice approaches with a buddy I was monitoring. Controller said "no harm no foul" and we did maybe 4 more approaches with a bruised ego.
Unlike this guy we apologized, a lot, and left the airspace promptly.
I still feel like a shitty pilot to this day. God bless that patient controller.
The important thing is that you weren't an arsehole about it. Kindness will get you everywhere, and won't get you into places you don't want to be.
Everyone makes mistakes :)
Good day
I’ve been right seat in a plane that busted a bravo and both me and my pilot felt bad about it. Just gotta keep a good attitude and listen to the instructions from ATC and everything would be fine
Most controllers won't report it if the infraction is slight and they can turn it into a "Learning Experience." In addition, we can see you, especially if your transponder is working, but even if it's not. We'll work around you, then try to "educate" you once we're talking to you (or via the tower or an FBO at the airport where you land).
The phone call between the pilot and the supervisor at Las Vegas Airport Traffic Control is a public record. Someone requested it under FOIA and posted it online. The pilot gave some of his reasoning for why he reacted the way he did. He thought he had clearance, although it's unclear why. I think he thought that by telling the controller he was headed to Henderson, the controller would know that his path would necessitate him going through the bravo, and that the controller not directing him otherwise meant he had clearance.
As to why he reacted the way he did after being told to exit the bravo, he had a number of comments. Some of his "context" was irrelevant (his daughter needing to go to the bathroom is not a valid reason to fail to comply with the controller telling him leave Bravo airspace when he does not have clearance). Some of his other points were less bad. He claimed that getting out of the Bravo without going deeper into it would've required him to turn toward mountains, so terrain prevented an immediate exit out of the airspace, and since he could not immediately think of a good way out of the bravo, his only thought was to respond that he could not exit the Bravo. He also claimed that he attempted to stay as close to the edge of the bravo as he could, until the point where he was getting terrain warnings.. I don't know the airspace, so I have no idea if what he's saying makes sense.
The supervisor did not criticize the pilot at all. In fact, he supervisor was trying to reassure him that it wasn't a big deal, and that with "everything going on in the country," which I assume meant the pandemic, that they had bigger problems to deal with.
To his credit, although the supervisor seemed to think this was ultimately a non-issue, the pilot was, without needing to be, very apologetic and admits he should have handled the situation better. He admits that 1) he should've made sure he had clearance, 2) he should have handled himself better when talking to the controller, and 3) when he wasn't sure how to exit the bravo, he should've asked the controller for a vector instead of responding that he wasn't going to comply.
For the record, I'm not defending the pilot. I just want to comment on the call itself, without being biased either way.
Is it possible that he's just an idiot who never flies through Bravo, and thought it followed the same rules as Charlie? B/c if it was Charlie and not Bravo, he wouldn't need a clearance.
Obviously that's still really bad, you should know the rules of all classes of airspace if you're going to fly a plane. But it's slightly less bad than knowing and not caring.
As a retired 30 yr controller I can say this much.
Sometimes VFR pilots can get confused about rules. Class B airspace while talking to controllers is more common than you can imagine. Usually it happens when flight following has been going on for some time. Pilot gets handed off from controller to controller and when he goes from one controller from outside class b to one controlling class b he assumes he has clearance. While not required good controllers from both class b and adjoining sectors will state on initial contact “remain clear of the class B airspace”. This is not required but just an additional level of communication.
That being said without the words “cleared into/through class B” any assumption by the pilot automatically puts him at fault. Furthermore in this situation a very patient controller warned the pilot repeatedly and properly ordered him to leave. From my understanding first offense if not fought by the pilot is 30-90 day suspension and a check ride. But in this case even if it was reasonable for him to think he was in the right, when told to exit he refused to comply. Unless he can prove he had a safety issue that prevented him from doing so he will likely get the maximum 6months-1 year suspension. In this case the big error was going in, the big error was not leaving.
Efoxx ok - Did you enter ATC training at Biloxi, 1966?
Thank you for your service. It's possible that i spoke to you over the years.
Thank you @efoxx_ok, interesting reaction. I am wondering: would saying "remain clear of class B airspace" not run the risk of being understood as "cleared for class B airspace" especially if the radio isn't 100%? They seem quite similar to me... Saying that extra line would then increase the risk of mistakes perhaps? Thoughts?
André Somers they prefer us to say “Remain outside the Bravo” now, instead of saying “Remain clear of the Bravo” to help eliminate confusion.
André Somers ehhh I don’t think so. “Remain clear” advisories can happen even in class C airspace, where you don’t even need a stated clearance to enter. I’ve been told that numerous times. I’d say this kind of stuff is common and should be expected if you know it may be busy, particularly for KLAS.
FAA registry shows the aircraft is owned by "WIFE APPROVED LLC" so I'm guessing a call to his wife might get him grounded.
I thought you were joking but that’s right 😂😂
'My mommy says l can ride my bicycle on the Freeway, so shut up Mr. State Trooper'
😂
Maybe ATC was his wife 😋
Clearly his wife cleared him into the bravo
dag... The FAA registry also shows the address of the "Owner"... go to People Search and you will find the name of the 60yo pilot in questionable trouble!
The FAA needs to revoke his license... His actions were dangerous.
I am 99.99 percent sure that they did, I dont see how he could have kept it. Imo that should result in Jailtime, controller was nice.
I am familiar with the situation, but I can't comment specifically on it. Civil penalties were imposed. The FAA has no criminal enforcement authority. That is up to the FBI or State/Local authorities (if applicable). They declined to do so.
@@johnfowler1627 what are civil penalties?
@@djbred18 Civil penalties are penalties other than criminal. That generally means that the person can't be imprisoned and won't have a criminal conviction on his record. Civil penalties for pilots can include fines, remedial training, certificate suspension, and/or certificate revocation.
@@johnfowler1627 gotcha. Thanks
My compliments to the controller. She remained professional and calm. Her tone of voice when she called out 1NR as traffic "operating in the Bravo w/o a clearance" sounded like it was formal phraseology, almost like it was a routine occurrence. Great Job!
Clearly he has never been told “No” when he was a child . Oh wait , he is still acting like one .
@ So you're implying that interactions like these are the future of aviation?
You hit the nail right on the head. This is a product of the no spanking, everyone gets a trophy style parenting.
The ironic thing was from what I seen, he was actually dealing with problems with his child at the time (apparently they had severe turbulence heading in, and the child had vomited at some point). So he was already having a horrible flight and took it out on the controller (source: muckrock, search the tail number and that site has the phone recording on the last message in the thread)
@ why don't you lay back on your easy chair old man, you're getting worked up
@@tinman3747got another one lol, seriously three words is "worked up"?
"Sorry for the service" The controller who apologised should see this🤣🤦🏻♂️
Oh trust me, he heard the recordings later and probably wanted to retract his apologies. ... and punch the guy. :D
He was going off of the word of the pilot and probably had no idea what happened except for that he needed to give the pilot a phone number. The pilot was trying to play victim so that is the story that he gave TWR
I'm sure he'll hear the tape
The controller probably just wanted to defuse the situation. He probably felt that he would just apologise in case there had been an error and that he would leave it up to the FAA to deal with.
Peter Staveley - Controller should have remained out of it, nothing he did or can do.
The way he said "I'm inside" in that whinny voice...you knew right then what kind of a guy he is.
I don’t have much going the next couple months. What’s this guys name and where can I find him. He needs a private lesson in humility and showing respect
@Otto_Maddox I think that's giving him to much credit. Probably inherited he's money.
@@pcpolice7937lol that might be taking it a little far. How about just writing him a stern letter? Let him know how you feel🤣
Feel sorry for his partner, I'm sure they've heard that whiny comment before..."I'm insideeee.." along with "...whyyyy is it DRYYYY?"
I know it isn't formal but it's oddly reassuring how often you hear a pilot sign off with "good luck" when they know there's another pilot still on frequency making a jerk of himself (2:23)
When she switches the SWA and the pilot says “good luck!” Hahaha. At least you know the other pilots are thinking the same thing you are. Would LOVE to hear the conversations in the other planes
Is it just me or does SWA seem to have the most polite and chill pilots. Having been a PAX with them I've always been impressed by SWA and everytime I hear them on the comms it seems to confirm my bias lol.
I cannot believe this dude has a pilot license.
Or, correction: *had* a pilot license.
Enough... Not into politics in flying and it is not a LICENSE.... mine is a CERTIFICATE. I earned mine I didn't buy it at the DMV.
@@keithrutherford9646 leave
@@keithrutherford9646 Whoa! We got a certified douche here.
@@keithrutherford9646 Actually, I spent quite a bit of money on mine.
Keith Rutherford Loser.
“The things I did on my last day of having a pilot license”
"Then clear me through."
"no"
"YES"🤣🤣
I'm not ready to copy, im flying! .... not much longer
one would hope
@Gage controller said "when you're ready", no time limit. Could be tomorrow for all she cares, just informing the pilot that the form is being filed.
Was thinking the same thing
@Gage You're totally missing the point. OP is simply saying he won't be flying for long if he maintains his belligerent, defiant attitude. Yes, he is within his rights to copy when it's safe to do so, but even the way he said THAT was extremely defiant. Overall just a nasty individual who has no business being in control of any aircraft due to his total lack of respect for ATC.
Enjoy your flight... it will probably be the last one...
The guy enters restricted airspace without a clearance, and he’s offended at being called an asshole?
If you think that is acceptable behavior, please do us a favor and do not become a pilot.
@@htschmerdtz4465 I suggest you read Mr. Slydell's post again...and stay clear of the Class B.
That's what makes him a true Karen.
Bruce Curtis looks like you can’t read. Do ALL of us a favor, and don’t become a pilot. And if you already are, please stop flying
@@htschmerdtz4465 Better than a pilot who flies up a cactus up his ass all the time...😂
Seriously, of all the things a pilot can do, calling a pilot who is potentially putting lives in danger an asshole is probably the lesser of bad things that one could do or say in response. Calm your tits, dude.
Former flight instructor and airline pilot here. These type of pilots are scary. Years ago, I had a student who refused to accept instructions from ATC. I quickly dropped him. He went through a few more instructors before the flight school owner kicked him out. The guy went to another flight school at another airport and somehow got his license. Fortunately, these types are few in number, but they are very dangerous.
My next aviation company name will be : STAY OUTSIDE BRAVO LLC.
This is one of the FAA’s 5 hazardous attitudes: anti-authority
Great catch! Definitely something covered on the PAR exam now.
This guy displays a good 4/5 of those hazardous attitudes… The only one I don’t see is Resignation!
@@SynergyDiv when the FAA guy shows up at his door it'll occur
@@jeepxj -No FAA guy is gonna show up at his door. He will get a letter of investigation of the incident and most likely have to take some remedial training since this violation did not result in any danger to other aircraft and the controller did not have to reroute other aircraft. If he handled it correctly , the phone call would have been the end of it all. If he was the same "asshole" on the phone, as he was on the radio, he will be investigated and handled according to how zealous the investigator wants to be.
You really just mean "anti-government". All government authority is self-appointed and taken by force. So what you really mean to say is that this pilot has a problem with someone holding a gun to his head. And what sane, reasonable person wouldn't have.
Worst mistake I made as a pilot was flying into Dobbins AFB airspace. The controller asked me where I was, and I just simply admitted that I was disoriented. She told me to ident and then gave me vectors and made sure I was okay. I was VERY grateful!
I once did something like that. I was climbing up from under the Class B, and giving my info to the controller so he could set up flight following, and I didn't realize I climbing so fast (very cold day) and while I was waiting I had entered the airspace by about 100 ft. I noticed before he said anything, and took her back down while apologizing. He chuckled and said "Climb back up, you are cleared into the Class Bravo". How you talk to them can make all the difference in the world. Be kind and they will work with you. But why would you want to work with someone behaving like that? If you try to ruin their day, they can ruin yours.
Wait so saying I can't copy I'm flying. Is a bad response!!!!!
This sounds like something out of an Airforceproud95 video.
Mikey mikey alpha go!
It really does!
I'm not ready to copy I'm flying
Groundpound69
Vector him to the nearest aircraft carrier in the pacific
I would LOVE to hear this guys conversation with FSDO when they talked to him.
Jamieson Gradert if you’re flying under an IFR clearance yes... But he’s flying vfr and you always need a specific clearance to enter B airspace when flying vfr. Even if you have flight following.
Nope. Implied is true (and only partially) for D and C airspace. Bravo needs an actual clearance when VFR. No way around it.
Jamieson Gradert negative. For class Bravo clearance, the words: “cleared into Bravo airspace” (+full callsign) must be given by the controller
@@GradertJ No. Class B requires an explicit clearance into the airspace. There is no ;implied' clearance. Class C and D only require communications to be established.
Except “implied clearances” don’t exist on a VFR flight plan. Two way call sign acknowledgment only works into a Class C
I'm starting my training in sept. It brings me joy knowing, if this guy could get his pilot license I probably can. Don't think I can be this bad
It's as simple as this... You ready?
ATC: "N1NR, I need you to exit Bravo airspace immediately."
N1NR: "Roger, do you have a heading for me?"
I was surprised he wasn’t given a heading. For those concerned about safety…and ATC should be…a heading out would have been helpful.
1NR (AKA Sky Karen): "I want to speak to your air traffic manager." APCH: "I AM the manager."
If he had said "Oh I'm sorry ma'am, I thought I received Bravo clearance 15 miles ago. Requesting clearance now to transit the Bravo to Henderson." He would have been given a *sigh* and then his clearance. His attitude led to this whole debacle.
...and there would have been a 50/50 chance she wouldn't write him up and if he were written up, he would have gotten more leniency. Instead, he got a 100% certain write up and by showing belligerence, the FSDO guy is going to support the TRACON (as he should in this case) and throw the book at him.
@@steven2145 exactly. Controllers do not want to give pilot deviations. An oops, apology, and request for safe vectors out would have gone a long way to this being a non-issue.
but he was refused
I did this once, was skimming the outer boundaries of bravo airspace by SFO, was told to stay clear, i apologized, and moved on my way. No deviation no issues.
On top of that, his “I’m not ready to copy, I’m flying ” comment will seal his fate. “Advise when ready to copy a number” should be a huge clue to any pilot that they have seriously messed up, yet he remains defiant.
The pilot did an interview about this situation. Apparently there was another aircraft on freq that had a similar N number. The pilots radio was having issues transmitting beyond 3 or 4 miles but he wasn't aware. The other aircraft was calling for bravo clearance and it was approved. Since comms can be busy I guess he didn't realize the issue. He got it all cleared up with the FAA.
“Then clear me in”
“No”
“Yes!”
Had me dead for some reason😂
The scariest thing is he appears to honestly believe he was right. He doesn't belong in the air.
I wonder if there are other areas in life where he interacts this way with others. Perhaps, that would make him an oxygen waster.
"ACT you're not the boss of me! I'm flying!"
He reminds me of me when I was 5 years old.
Guy is lucky he didn't end up with fighter jets on both of his wings
happens just on the left wing ;)
@@utsavjain19 and the other is there but not seen.. But youll know in the back of your head that he's trailing a bit behind and that you should probably fear him more than the one on your wing
@@1fortheroad1 Haha true! Just wanted to correct by mentioning that both the jets are on the left. Hopefully I don't have to see them in my flying career :P
well, he was over Nellis ...
@@utsavjain19 I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. That guy was off his marbles!
As a pilot of 17 years myself.....the pilot of the centurion was 100% in the wrong. All of this could have been avoided if he would have humbled himself to apologize the minute she said to exit the Bravo airspace. He was confrontational and in the wrong. He deserves to have his license suspended until he goes back and learns the proper way to enter any controlled airspace.
After listening to his conduct towards ATC, and his disregard for other pilots in the area, he should not be flying at all! It frightens me to death to think that I might be flying in the same airspace as this guy!
I've been flying for 18 years and I say you're wrong
@@esdrasmanrique6457 If you think he's wrong, then 18 years is about 18 years too long. You need to stay on the ground.
@@SixStringflyboy lmao. I've never flown a plane before
I think revocation would be more appropriate. This was a REFUSAL to recognize ATC protocol more than it was a mistake.
She did a fantastic job managing the situation and staying level-headed. Bravo to this controller 👏🏼. The pilot on the other hand.....
"Bravo to this controller" - I see what you did there... ;)
lol the one down vote is probably that pilot, or former pilot.
I will give it a downvote
Hehe downvote removed, guess the pilot got an official letter :)
Downvote, eh? You're drunk off Reddit!
@@first_last- nah. I'm not a big Redditor. Rarely use it. Downvote was just the first word that came to mind when I posted comment.
You can replace "downvote" with dislike, thumbs down, or any other word that means the same thing if you like :)
Rules are rules for a reason, and his deviation caused a 4 mile separation from a 737 with a hundred passengers. In most cases if you quickly realize your mistake, apologize, and exit Bravo, a phone number is rarely given. He deserved what was coming.
Agreed. I am a private pilot with less than 600 hours. I have never flown in Class B, but occasionally fly into Class C to practice controlled airspace. Out of the 30 times I have flown into Class C I have made a mistake or two. I immediately apologize and comply and it always ends there. In 2022 my plan was to stay just outside of the Class C airspace as I was departing the area. I noticed that I had drifted in the C airspace about a 1/2 mile and immediately called ATC to inform them of my error. Controller accepted my apology and just asked that I keep a closer eye on my charts going forward. Why this pilot didn't just acknowledge his error and comply is the sad part, probably would have just ended right there.
This wasn't an, "oh my bad", NASA ASRS kinda faux pas. Any wagers the FAA will pursue, "emergency revocation"?
"All airspace are belong to us." -N731NR
I bet that controller at Henderson felt like an asshat for apologizing once he heard the actual conversation lol 😆
I was wondering about that! Why tf would he be apologizing for poor service?
@@HalfShelli I'd assume at that point he had only heard the story from the pilot's side, which was probably something along the lines of "She cleared me into the airspace and then pretended she didn't" or at least "I requested clearance several times and was ignored and when I touched the airspace she got all pissy."
Also, deescalation. As that ATC, I'd rather not open Pandora's Box of crying on frequency.
Nah he's a professional. He knew the best way to deal with it was to get the chucklefucks information and deal with it on the backside.
Instead of lol, don't you mean LIMA OSCAR LIMA
@@SomeRandomGuy789 Kilo Echo Kilo Whiskey
That lady had hundreds of lives to think about, he was just thinking about one person.
If you are asked to remain clear, regardless of what you think you are entitled to, you remain clear.
You can't see what she can see on her screen.
A small aircraft hitting an airliner could kill hundreds.
She was also protecting him, he could have been flipped upside down by wake turbulence.
_A small aircraft hitting an airliner could kill hundreds._ It can and *has* happened before. PSA Flight 182.
Typyical narcissist
Woulda served his ass right.
@@BitwiseMobile Exact same scenario too. The Cessna wasnt even supposed to be in the airspace when it hit PSA, and the cessna wasnt talking to ATC at all from what I remember.
@@BitwiseMobile Incorrect. The Airliner hit the Cessna.
I love the response of "She's being an ass--!" before he cuts himself off and decides to chastise the other pilot for his language despite just about saying the same thing himself.
Seriously surprised nobody roasted him for that 😂
I wish the FSDO would stream their meeting with him live.
I can just see him stomping his feet like a three year old. Didn’t do himself any favors by behaving this way. Things happen; comply and discuss via landline later.
Imagine his tail shaking furiously because he's stomping on the rudder
or, just accept no as your answer and have Bravo Security escort you out of the Airspace
That's exactly what I thought. The kid that was spoiled and rarely told no and then when he would be told no he throw a tantrum. Then if somebody else says something, he tries to find a small issue with what they said and deflect like he talked about the other guys language
VAS, would love to see an update on any certificate action on this pilot if you can find it when it becomes available.....
I mean it’s easy to find out the pilots name. Look up FlightAware, look up who started the LLC, cross reference using FAA database.
@@f3nd13y Assuming the pilot is the owner. It could be rented, a family plane, or a company plane.
umm yeah about that, i tried looking up that LLC Name ( Wife Approved )
well either im looking at the wrong thing, or that LLC does not exist as a valid business name in Torrance CA.
there is a name listed in the FAA database, but that name is old and was the prior owner of the aircraft.
actually i take that back, found it ;)
@@CapStar362 Any chance you might share that?
"Then clear me through!"
"No."
"Yes!"
How childish can people be? Wait, don't answer that.
He was determined to fly through bravo airspace without clearance regardless of what ATC told him and continued despite being instructed to leave. Thumbs up to the pilot who called this guy out on his BS.
I take many students to Henderson for their tower work. We rarely get Class B clearance (used to). VERY important to hear and repeat the ATC clearance: "Cleared into Class B". It's just like a landing clearance - you can't land without one. This fella needs to fly with an instructor a bunch more - and check his macho attitude at the door.
Busting a BRAVO airspace isn't big deal but being called an asshole is wear he draws the line.
Well, you gotta have standards ...
Sounded like a Southwest pilot
fortheloveofcake93 ATC did not do that. It was another pilot and it was deserved!
The third party comment was unnecessary and compounded the problem. Mind your own business, it does not help.
@@idleopdes Ok, as.....
Wow. I just listened to the call that he had to make when he called in after. The ATC supervisor or operations manager was a total idiot, threw the controller under the bus and apologized to the guy basically. No consequences, no questioning, nothing. The pilot Jeff basically said he was a perfect angel and a victim of the ATC controller and the idiot supervisor just bought it.
Yeah, I sense a good old boy misogyny in that one.
The pilot sounds like he's auditioning for Napoleon Dynamite
"I asked for a Bravo clearance 15 miles ago, gosh!"
Centurion 1-November-Romeo, contact Henderson tower and have a great last flight.
"Wife approved. FAA didn't"
You think somebody would marry this guy? 😂
She was nice about it initially “I need you out of the Bravo”. He could have apologized and gotten himself out of there ASAP or asked for vectors. Nothing would have happened. His refusal to comply and his attitude were extremely hazardous.
The guy who said "Your a *** hole!" Somebody pay him a million dollers lmao
And welcome back to FSX, I'm Airforcceproud95
This dude...
I think he learned ow to be pilot by watching AFP95 :D
I was thinking the same thing!
XD XD XD
Welcome to Steam Edition.
he might be a 'hot air ballon' guy in FSX when at home
Haha did one of the Southwest pilots call him an a##hole. Thats hilarious.
K Mckivey - That was, the ghost voice of past"controllers"!
In fairness he was being an asshole
Professionalism all around.
Funny but illegal. Cursing on those frequency's is a no no that can lead to fines
I would if I was flying a passenger jet in that airspace...
Kudos to the controller for maintaining her professional manner. Controllers have enough to keep them busy without having to argue with a whiny violator. The guy likely got violated or at least a warning. His name and license # are now in the FAA's database. Thanks for the video.
I've had her before getting escorted through the Bravo at night, she's awesome. Total pro.
@@lrh411 😊
I'd bet that Mr. Jeff Wachner did not have a happy ending after that phone call.
Glad I didn't need to out him, thanks!
"Sorry for the service"
"Thanks Dad"
Not something you want to hear in a brothel.
This guy has some serious anger management issues. Needs to have his license taken.
"Don't start your 'white zone' shit with me Betty" lol...Airplane
I would be embarrassed to sound that whiny on the radio.
This should be a loss of license in a just world.
Seems a bit extreme. Perhaps some prompting from the FAA: "If you want into the Bravo, say 'Requesting clearance into Bravo airspace.'"
@@AnsonChappell id agree if the pilot started following atc direction after the miscommunication, but even after it was established that he and the atc controller were not on the same page, he continues to refuse to accept directions from atc more than once .. suspend his license at a minimum imo
@@AnsonChappell you think he doesn't know you need a clearance to enter Class B airspace?
A $25k ticket. Maybe more. I don't know about the US, but if you bust Class B in Germany that blatantly, the law allows fines up to 50k Euros.
Not sure about the license, though.
Might be a hull loss before that happens.....
You cannot enter class bravo without authorization.
In Canada they would have classified you as a potential threat and call the military.
Nellis AFB is not much further from McCarran International than Henderson Executive..
That's baloney, nobody scrambles fighters for a goddamn Cessna busting a bravo
they don't have any armed jets on alert at Nellis, nor would they just have crews standing by unless there was a TFR set up that required it
He would have been OK if he had just acknowledged he made a boo-boo and agreed to exit the Bravo immediately. No controller would have written him up for that. His ego got him fined.
This is the same guy who tailgates everyone, then cuts across 3 lanes of traffic without signaling, because "he's driving!"
>NOOOOOOOOOOO I REQUESTED BRAVO CLEARANCE 15 MILES AGO NOT MY HECKIN PILOT DEVIATIONARINO YOU CAN'T MAKE ME CALL THE NUMBER
Yeah, but his plane is probably impounded.
shhhh i'm doing a meme here
Wholesome3000 big Chungus keaneu Reeves finds this breathtaking
Haha, licence shredder go brrrrrrrrr
@@DM-kn1rk
Edit: OMG THANKS FOR THE GOLD KIND STRANGER
Edit 2: wtf downvoted for emojis?? oh no i crossed the emoji police xDDDDD
I looked up the track on flightaware. He could have easily avoided the bravo. He busted the inner ring that runs 100/SFC. Had he simply gone another mile or two south before turning east to HND.
I doing a little sleuthing here are comments on a real estate page about the owner of the aircraft. It appears very consistent with the ATC interaction in the video:
“ Awful person, awful agent. Real jerk. Never ever do business with this person.”
“*****showed me homes
incredibly arrogant piece of work. wouldn't listen to my input at all, completely disregarded everything I had to say. I will NEVER have contact with this waste of space ever again.”
So let's say money isn't an issue. You can pay for flight lessons without financial strain. Or hell, someone even paid for them for you. It's still a ton of work to even get a PPL. You have to pass the test, get the hours, and then a lengthy oral and practical test. It's a lot of knowledge, a lot of studying, and a lot of work. Lots of time, lots of effort. That being said, that guy pissed all that away in like half an hour with his little temper tantrum. May as well flush that little green card with the Wright Brothers on it right down the crapper.
It's only a temporary suspension, not like it's a lifelong ban. He can get back in the air after a waiting period and a checkride - assuming he learns to fly safe and obey aTC instructions.
As a fellow pilot I'm both annoyed and terrified that there are a handful of people like this that give GA a bad reputation. So unsafe and unnecessary!
GA creates its own bad reputation.. This adds to it..!
> this that give GA a bad reputation.
Eh... idiots who act like this represents more than the bad pilot(s) are at least partly to blame, and apathetic attitudes that let bad generalizations like this fester don't help either.
I wonder what poor flight instructor he tricked into getting him his license. It’s unfortunate that these controllers were treated so poorly by this guy as they were doing a great job with the other traffic. I’m sure they didn’t care that much but as a pilot, we should treat our colleagues at ATC with as much respect as possible.
Instructors don’t give licenses. Designated Pilot Examiners (DPEs) do. Maybe he was on his best behavior in front of them.
Legend has it that he still hasn’t copied the number he still flying in the bravo
Does the term “Anti-Authority” ring a familiar note?
“I’m not ready to copy the number, I’m flying” that’s what you call a pro gamer move.
It’s not like they don’t know how to find him. It’s really pathetic, actually. Smh
That was the only thing he got right. HIs stress levels were likley high and he was in what could be busy airspace. Writing down a number is like sending a text message while driving.
Pro gamer, maybe. Pro pilot, not even close.
@@jamescaley9942 lol.. clearly you're not IFR rated.
@@2whl4re fact.
N731NR, descend and maintain zero.
Ok....that's a great comment too!
indefinitely
Actually, I'm confused why she didn't give him a vector directly out of the class B.
@@Pants4096 likely would not answer that one. Why?
That cry baby should have been grounded, his license yanked and punched in the mouth for good measure...
I just find it funny how he's just like No
He looks like a kid arguing with his mom lol
- Cesar, I did not let you eat candies before dinner.
- Then let me eat it.
- No!
- Yes!
Like wtf is this 😂
I’m surprise jets weren’t scrambled.... he when across 26L localizer 😳😳🤬🤬 the controller kept her 😎 on behalf of the Professional Pilot he’s not one of us
"You have no clearance!"
"Yes I do!"
If it’s the same guy I’m thinking of, he had a Cessna 150 and as soon as he would lift off he would stay low and pitch up at 45 degrees as if he were flying an F-18. He would also wear a flight suit.