Alicent-Rhaenyra being too much of a "friends" thing is overdone - them being enemies is more interesting, since the tragedy of 'lovers' turned enemies is more compelling than them inexplicably meeting twice with no actual plot advancement
Both of their meetings were crucial to their individual storylines. Had they not met in the Great Sept, Alicent would never have realised that she was mistaken about Viserys' final wishes. Once Alicent discovered that she had been wrong all along regarding the promised heir, she chose to abandon her royal duties. As a result, she later meets Rhaenyra at Dragonstone to conspire against her own sons and help Rhaenyra sit the Iron Throne, which indeed happens in later episodes. Without their renewed connection, the story wouldn’t have progressed beyond just the "Danse of the Dragons". That said, it’s clear they are no longer friends. At this stage, they don’t need to be friends to “set things right”; Rhaenyra merely has to trust Alicent as an "old friend".
@@thalè-s-muet in a vacuum yes, it’s crucial to the charters But since there is really no cause and effect that doesn’t matter The reason why George’s writing and GoT was so good is because the characters drove the plot. In HotD character development and the plot run parallel. Hopefully that changes but - like case in point Alicent has this huge character moment where she concedes to Rhaenyra killing her eldest son. But it’s already undercut because we know Aegon is gone. There are no stakes. All of season 2 is sabre rattling. They tease that something will happen then pull back and everything goes back to status quo
Blood and cheese kind of flipped that though, her rage was undercut by her guilt of her husband taking her orders and using them to justify murdering a child. It would be bad writting if she didn't drastically change after something like that also the reality is she was stuck anyway if they all just charged Kinglanding they couldn't defeat Sunfyre, Dreamfyre, and Vhagar plus the arrows and scorpions of the red keep.
Yeah that's what's so frustrating. The season 1 finale was all about Rhaenyra trying to prevent a war through diplomatic means and open dialogue but once her son is murdered, the gloves came off with her deathstare. But then season 2 focused on her trying to be diplomatic again??
@@blacksunday4231 It didn't but she feels guilty because she got angry and demanded revenge and Daemon then took that energy committed something far worse. She obviously still want justice but she's now aware of how dangerous it can be to be blinded by rage if your the queen. It was Daemons fault yes but he's her champion and she's never had to deal with this level of carnage being done in her name and it makes her feel like she's not in control which influences her reluctance for the rest of the season. It's mirrored with Daemon and Willem Blackwood where Daemon basically gets put in Rhaenyra's shoes having someone take your desires and use them to make you complicit in evil
Some people on social media: Fire and Blood isn't supposed to be a completely true story. The showrunners can adapt things how they want. They don't have to follow the source material." My brothers in Christ, they are not even following season one.
@@yasmina3999Exactly & even ppl who say F&B is unreliable clearly haven't read it. Archmaester Gyldayn is reliable for the most part because he bluntly states when a source seems to be far-fetched.
I think the writers want the blacks to be the good guys in all this but it just robs them of being interesting. In reality both are villains of different varieties and they should stick to that. Them doing the bit with Rhaenyra where she’s motivated by revenge but simultaneously trying to be a good person while simultaneously sending dozens of men to their death against the dragons, it’s just fighting against itself and undermining what could be interesting.
Did you just read the book? The greens are absolutely awful in the book. There is nothing to love about them ( alicent and Otto letting viserys corps rotts for days and maybe even poison him) the show has on contrary humanize them a lot especially alicent and aegon and everybody feels for helaena so I don't see how the show villainize them. From the start they usurp the throne despite viserys wishes, you can't change that.
@@romainchambard4399 In the book they’re both villains with Rhaenyra being motivated by revenge which is why she’s making such rash decisions now. They did humanize the greens in the show but Rhaenyra is hardly looked at objectively and Aemond is a borderline cartoon villain by the end of s2 despite deeper layers being hinted at. Objectively speaking she’s just as in the wrong as Allicent but in different ways but the show picks sides as to which one is right and wrong.
@@romainchambard4399The blacks are just as if not more wretched as well. There is even less to love about the blacks. The blacks have been civilized ten times more, Rhaenyra more so than any other character on either side. The show is most certainly black biased and purposeful and ridiculously villainizes the greens. By the standards and laws of the society this show is based on it should clearly give the greens the moral and legal high ground, it does not matter what Viserys wanted Aegon is his first born son and the true heir end of story that’s just how monarchy functions.
It’s simple: Letting go Miguel Sapochnik as showrunner made the show lose focus. It was padded with unnecessary scenes with no vision. At times it felt like a different show. Even many of the special effects looked worse.
@Ronin.97 it turns out their best director is a fan of nepotism. This just shows you that just because someone is very talented doesn't mean their incorruptible
@@kungalexander829 Yeah I found out about that after making that comment. I see now why they had to remove him. Seems his void though has caused a problem with the writers room now being some sort of echo chamber. More interested in their ideas than the actual story. Of course Sapochnik was doing the same just when it came to his wife.
How so you backtrack Alicent betraying 99% of her family to death. Realistically they only mentioned Aegon but who she really betrayed was Aegon, Aemond, Dearon, Otto, Gawayne and Cole. And for what? that whole scene betrays everything she stood for in season 1 the core of her character
It made NO sense to betray Gwayne and Daeron - well, none of the betrayals made sense - because they were completely innocent in this. Daeron was young, kind, and completely innocent.
The kiss between Rhaenerya and Mysaria was so out of place too and the character's don't even adress it later. It's like the charecters don't even remember it but the actors playing the charecters just wanted to do it lol.
Funny how you say that because that's exactly how it happened. It wasn't planned the actress who plays Rhaenyra just decided to kiss her and the director kept it in and "made it work".
@@blueyeshadow2738 Just looked it up and there are several articles pointing out it wasn't in the script. Also her pronouns are irrelevant and I don't give into people's unhealthy delusions. Quote from the actress who plays Mysari "I think it was scripted as … there’s just breath between them or something, and then whatever happens is interrupted."
My issues with the show is not about following the book but the show doesn't follow its own Canon Characters seems to forgot events & writers wants us to feel the event when characters themselves don't care about events happening to them Nevertheless, I love this season, yes it has flaws but still a good drama to watch
None of the characters feel human. In the book, they reacted like humans would, which made you sympathize with them. In the show, they are robots advancing the lackluster plot. For example, Rhaenyra should be furious about Luke and Alicent and Helaena should be both traumatized and furious about Jaehaerys. In the show, Rhaenyra seems to forget Luke, and Alicent and Helaena handwave Jaehaerys’s death as “babies die all the time” like he died of an illness instead of being violently decapitated like he was. The deaths of those two boys should be haunting the narrative, not forgotten within a few episodes.
Rhaenyra is honestly a horrible character, I really dislike her. It’s not that she “doesn’t want to be Queen,” she wants to be Queen because she wants to be Queen and she never made any personal sacrifices for it. Alicent’s criticism of her that she has no honor or sense of duty is 100% correct. Like if you’re already going to have legitimacy problems because you’re breaking centuries of tradition by being the first female monarch, maybe don’t blow off finding a suitable husband, screw around with your retainers, and then have a bunch of very obvious bastards.
Agreed 100%. She should have slept with Laenor every day until some mocha skinned white haired babies popped out. 2 or 3 of those and then she could probably get away with as many bastards as she liked But no Rhaenyra always needs to get exactly what she wants whenever she wants and the low born must pay for her desires with their lives. And then after all getting rid of Laenor and marrying Daemon, she then goes on to cheat on Daemon with Mysaria! She’s the worst type of person
Thisss, I don’t know why ppl don’t get this, I think rhaeynra is the rightful heir since the king named her his heir but her bastards aren’t the rightful heirs, her sons with daemon are, so either way a war would’ve broken out after rhaeynra died due to ppl believing ageon iii is the rightful heir or Jace, I find it funny that rhaeynra criticises her father for having sons after naming her heir (which she had every right to do it was stupid) but then does the exact same with the strong boys, but no one points it out for some bizarre reason and call alicent a hater for calling her out.
@@itspronouncednikolaj333 oh yeh he wasn’t dead when they married, I forgot they went with that whole storyline, yeh so technically even her sons with daemon don’t count, that’s crazy, she had 5 sons and none of them were legitimate, they messed up the story with not murdering leanor.
Alicent's character became a mess when she was not involved in the green coup and plotting to put Aegon on the throne. All those years of building up her character arc to fear for her children's life and they threw it away and her motivations became 'duty' for Viserys who neglected her children with him. Worse now, she agrees to have Aegon executed publicly. What was the point of Alicent shielding Aegon from a dragon then? Did she forget that she was a fierce mother who no matter what loved her children regardless? And will protect ALL OF THEM at the cost of anything?
She protected him before she found out how shitty of a king he was and before he was completely broken and burned! My god. Obviously a lot has changed since his coronation so of course it makes sense then Alicent has changed as well
@user-bh2fz5sf5e Alicent feels guilty that she might be the reason her 2 sons turned out the way they are and her way to make it up to them is to betray and kill them?
The media is oversaturated with characters following linear, predictable arcs that often feel uninspired. I’d much rather watch characters with abrupt and seemingly arbitrary changes in their storylines, as long as those shifts make sense from a behavioural standpoint. Humans are inherently contradictory, and such changes, whether minor or significant, are often necessary for a story to remain engaging. That said, showrunners often manage to undermine their own good work for various reasons. However, this time there’s hope, as the series is only planned to run for two more seasons, leaving little room for them to stray too far from the excellent source material
@@bigjoh02 just to play devil's advocate, I believe Alicent said or alluded to the idea that for Aegon killing him is putting him out of his misery - and Aemond of course has become genocidal killing innocent people for very little reason. not saying I agree, but I believe those are the reasons she comes to that
I do find it funny how people constantly give the show credit for something it literally hasn't delivered on. It gives me flashbacks to how people excused Rhaenyra's passivity in the S1 finale, which also frustrated many viewers, by arguing that Luce was the breaking point and we were gonna see a much different Rhaenyra in S2. All that reassurance was bullshit! Why should I give the show the benefit of the doubt? They have lost so much trust from me this season because of absolutely ridiculous story decisions. Daemon needed to see GoT S8 spoilers in order to bend the knee to Rhaenyra? Now we'll never know if he would've done it of his own accord. Alicent sacrificing the same son who she sacrificed everything for? Guess it's ok since he used to be a jackass...... even though Alicent was the one who got him into this mess in the first place.
To be fair, there was no real reason for daemon to bend the knee. The flashbacks were kinda lame and dragged on but the only way would be for him to somehow realise things were bigger than him and his dreams in my mind knowledge of the song of fire and ice was the only real way for him to change heart
@@zarthur2752 so you admit that his "arc" was a writing failure. He literally needed to be told by God that "bend the knee to Rhaenyra or the world will end"? That's my problem. Prophecy shouldn't be a substitute for character development. I thought the moment when Daemon was handed Viserys' crown in S1E10 and he immediately crowned Rhaenyra, without a second thought, was such a powerful moment. And then the writers spent the entire S2 undercutting it. Lame.
@@syedshahrukhraza2923 no I think the story was boring and slow. However what other mechanism could be used for his change of heart. Only thing I can think of his simply that he loves Rhynera which we all know he loves power more than her.. What other way would he change his mind is my question? What development would change his character? Maybe if his dragon was killed but that ain't happening
Book greens literally engaged in a blood pact so that they will make decisions together and show greens have aemond deliberately killing aegon and alicent hating him. Oh yeah and I guess sunfyre is dead like what?😂
They focus way too much on Alicent and Rhaenyra, who are both pretty boring. Alicent starts the season in a terrible love story and then after that just starts taking a bunch of baths. Rhaenyra's not as bad as Alicent but other than finding the dragon riders didn't really do anything this season. Corlys has no relationship with his grandkids, Daemon has no relationship with his kids, Halaena has no relationship with her brothers or child, nobody has any relationship with their dragon. Everyone is just massively underdeveloped. And why build up Daemon's betrayal only for him to do nothing and for it to go nowhere? Why build up to nothing happening? And the lords even said they'd only follow Rhaenyra so he wasn't even in a position to claim the army as his own. Season 1 was far from a masterclass. It was massively rushed. 25 years crammed into 1 season. It's hard to create emotional attachments between the fans and the characters when the story's going a mile a minute. Viscerys's death was good but Luke's, Harwin's, Laena's, and Aemma's were all emotionless. And fast forward to season 2 the twins and the prince died and no one cared cuz we barely knew these characters. When are they gonna start developing their characters more?
@@thegoldman25mishandled a lot. Who found Alicent bath scenes exciting? And Rhaenyra accomplishes 1 thing this entire season. Finding dragon riders. They're cool but just like Baela, Rhaena, and Halaena they're barely developed. Making these women a bunch of goody two shoes was just an awful idea
This!!!! I got dragged to hell and back when I said B&C would NEVER EVER come close to the Red Wedding the way so many fans predicted because they never gave us anything to work with. The characterization process was too accelerated. Just to save time, House Velaryon has been fucked beyond repair and it's obvious they could care less about them, so there is no need to really elaborate here, and I will include Baela and Rhaena in this as well as they are barely characters at this point. Team Green serves to be completely fucked up with virtually no middle ground, something GOT House Lannister managed to retain. It's all or nothing. Aegon is forced into a position and basically abandoned and mocked. Alicent doesn't care. Aemond is just full-on psycho after feeling bad for killing Luke. I don't know what Helaena is. I did feel sorry for Criston in the last episode....he is finally showing buyer's remorse. I do like Gwayne and Otto. Team Black...lordt. Jace isn't developed AT ALL and he's the heir. Corlys is only seen at the shipyard. Rhaena wants a dragon....so they have her running for four episodes to find one only to NOT claim it. Baela isn't Baela, she's Rhaenyra's cheerleader. Has anything come from her mouth that wasn't pro-Rhaenyra? It's like she's on a campaign trail. I want BAELA damnit! Lol. Well, she had that one time when she said she hates her father at times. Daemon's characterization enrages me, and I won't bother getting into it. I loved Lord Simon, he was a sweetheart. And Rhaenyra. I am team Black but she has never been my favorite. Not in the way they are trying to market her....like Dany 2.0. I like her obviously, but I have not found it in myself to love her and the writing isn't doing her any favors. I still question why folks like Rhaenys weren't neutral.
I agree there has been almost no death in the show that effected me on an emotional point. It's like I'm just watching historical events play out rather than historical events that I feel like I'm a part of and with people I know and love. That's what early GOT felt like. And yeah so many characters needed to have more scenes together and didn't. And yeah I hate how little we see characters bond with their dragons. Aegon for example haf one of the closest connections to his. And we saw them together for 10 seconds.
They just wanted Daemon's loyalty to not be real to Rhaenyra and that's parallel with Aemond and Aegon but also opposite to Daemon with Viserys. The only one he truly loved and supported unconditionally
Alicent is one of my favourite characters in the first season; they butchered her arc in season 2. She's the one who put Aegon in this mess. Now she wanna out with Heleana. putting her sons to death? It makes no sense. Sir Criston Cole, sees one dragon fight and then "Nope this wasnt i signed up for"😂 Heleana kinda of spoiled the whole series, instead of being a broken mother, now she will be 3 eyed raven Aemond and Vhaegar are the best in season 2. But Aemond also has no real motive except to be in the green team.
Aemond was such a disappointment for me. He has no charisma and every scene he is in relies on his intense glare. He doesn't speak to anyone candidly, he doesn't have any characterization beyond being a bad guy, and he doesn't hold a candle to the characterization his brother Aegon gets. Aemond is the only two dimensional character in this show.
To be honest the destruction of Alicent's character began in Episode 8 of Season 1. After 7 episodes of building up her rivalry with Rhaenyra, they flush it all away by having them make amends at the end. It only got worse from there.
Kind of a crazy take. Being that rhaenrya is literally a psychopath. She cheats, she lies, she gets people killed over her lies, she murders, she married a murderer, she does those things to her own family, yet all she cares about is her immediate family, she kills innocent people, she puts innocent people in harms way to advance her own selfish agenda….if this is a game of morality accent is 100x more ethical and moral than rhaenrya ever could be.
@@thezerowulf2046It was supposed to have 10 episodes but the writers strike happened and HBO decided to cut the budget and they only had enough money for 8 episodes. It’s obvious that The Gullet and the fall of King’s Landing were supposed to be episodes 9 and 10 respectively but Warner Brothers decided to tank their flagship show.
none of the characters feel like real people with humanity, traumas and flaws. everyone is a cardboard cutouts of tropes, or so opposite of what they were last season that it’s impossible to sympathize with or understand them. the only one that comes close to being anything human is Aegon, surprisingly.
Exactly. That’s because Identity politics Only allows people to be shallow shells of stereotypes instead of real people. That’s what recent, woke writers do: Insert their politics into Everything and Making it shallow and too clean. That’s Not how people work.
Aegon Targaryen is the BEST character of this show. Aemond and Jace are tied in for the second place, for me. They have reason for doing the things they’re doing. Aemond is losing his mind and Jace seems to be getting more and more desperate to protect his own position down the line. I like where that’s going. And Daemon needs to get his shit together, I still have hope from his character.
The shows biggest problem right now is they keep trying to make a way for Rhaenrya and Alicent to be friends and not want war. (When war is clearly already here) It leads both characters to look naive and dumb. You would think that the deaths of Luke and Jahaerys would infuriate the 2 sides more. But no it just makes them sad
The writers missed the point of war. War is where rich people send poor people to die. This is supposed to be a selfish power grab from aristocratic families that drag the entire country into death and destruction. Making the families more sympathetic is absolutely the wrong decision. Making them hesitant about war completely defeats the purpose of the story.
I remember seeing an interesting interpretation of the Red Sowing: Rhaenyra purposely sacrificed so many bastards not only for power but also to thin the numbers so Jace would have less competition for the throne. Maybe it was accidental writing, but I like this interpretation. I also think Alicent’s plan will backfire hard because when Rhaenyra gets to King’s Landing, Aegon will be gone, she’ll think Alicent set her up, and she’ll imprison her.
This would have made better sense if any of the bastards were remotely wealthy/powerful. They were all desperate. Not one of them could have raised a challenge to jace an actual dragon rider with bannerman who are flocking to his cause. Even as a prop people would rather put their own nobility on the throne
" Rhaenyra purposely sacrificed so many bastards...." This is one of the things about current society that irks me. What seems to be a complete lack of personal accountability. Rhaenyhra got no one killed. She outright told them the chances were slim and they could die. They went of their own accord, their own agency. Even if you are desperate that desperation is YOURS and your actions are still YOUR actions. Just sayin'...
@SJYNYC Taking advantage of people's desperation for her personal gain to the throne means she got them killed. She could have come up with any other plan that doesn't involve getting people burned alive. Remember, she was the one that INVITED and egged them on. She shud be accountable for that. They wouldn't have been in that position if she didn't let them. If u think what Rhaenyra did was okay then we need to have a long serious discussion.
Having Alicent offering the lives of all her children and grandchildren up to brutal murder so she could run off with Rhaenyra and play besties was possibly the most post modernist cringe I have ever seen. That mixed with them outright spoiling Aemond's death just so they can give Helaena a girl boss moment is why this show is starting to reek of season 8 GOT.
@@thegoldman25Isn't it though? The Game of Thrones curse is a gradual decay. Think of how things started getting worse with season 5, and only got slowly worse from there. HOTD season 2 is very much like GoT season 5 in that way, and thus is emblematic of the Game of Thrones curse.
@@thegoldman25 It is that bad, especially when you look at the fact that D&D and their writing started going downhill when the source material ran out. These folks have source material and they are choosing to...not use it. This is infinitely worse.
I don't feel like a bad person for having sympathy for Aegon nor having him as my favorite character this season just because of his horrible acts in season 1. He is just a fictional character that felt completely human by having both good sides and bad sides. It just shows that some people who seem harmless have skeletons in their closet. Liking a fictional character with such horrible acts doesn't mean you like people who do those stuff in real life. A lot of people still see a character like Rhaenys as the voice of reason and wise even after that ridiculous act she did during Aegon's coronation that left a huge casualties of innocent people. So why do some people act as if it's such a bad thing if someone likes or feel sorry for Aegon?
yeah aegon is my favorite character too lol & hotd is the only fandom i’ve seen where people can’t seem to understand that having a villain/bad person as ur favorite character doesn’t mean u justify his evil actions. imagine if star wars came out today & people monitored anakin fans like this 😂
@@vivien8417 And remember those horrible events he did weren't in the books , he was just an unfaithfull husband to Haelena buying whores , but when you point it out , Aegon haters claim it was unbiased recording of the maesters , 😂 like the show runners aren't biased against the Greens ! Every evil deed the greens made in the books are adapted in detail or exaggerated in the show , every evil deed the blacks made in the books was either a mistake , a misunderstanding or completely removed from the show !
@@Savage-nv6wr Even Mushroom didn't explicitly describe Aegon as a rapist. If we are going to believe every Mushroom testimony, then that means Rhaenyra (and Mysaria too) is even a worse person than both Aegon and Daemon combined due to that brothel queen incident.
My favorite character is Cersei Lannister and my favorite House is Lannister. I love complexity....and I love when complexity is well written and owned. The Lannister's owned their shit. I am Team Black, 100% but I have never disliked Aegon and I have felt a bit protective of him since season one. I don't even think I could hate him if I wanted to. I hate his parents more than I could ever hate him. People dislike him because of the SA allegations....am I the only one questioning his hypersexuality and alcoholism at the age of 14?! As if he isn't just as miserable or possibly even more than Helaena. Rhaenys is my favorite in the dance and even after interrupting Aegon's coronation, season one Rhaenys is still my favorite. People like to cherry pick. I look at need and motive. I didn't like the scene too much, but I understood the urgency. She's being held captive and forced to pledge to the Green's, she was not going to leave Meleys there alone. Rhaenys is pissed and trying to get to her granddaughters. It wasn't even about Rhaenyra, it was about Baela and Rhaena.
@@Virgohorrorqueen1980 The dragonpit had side exits she can use to escape without the casualties. Because if it didn't, then that means the other dragons should often destroy that part of the structure just so they can fly on a normal day. The showrunner themselves admitted in one of their interviews that they added it just for the sake of looking cool which makes it even worse.
Yep. That was 100% emma darcy just wanting to make out with her so she suggested adding the kiss. Shes not even playing rhaenyra at this point, she playing herself.
The whole GoT obsession thing is what ruined the show. They are not following the actual narrative of TDOD the infight between targaryens. Alicent has no needed to be main character because she literally does nothing and does not have any major role during war.
Why should Daemon feel guilty? That goes against everything that he represents he is the rogue prince, he goes wherever he want did whatever he want. Without thinking about the repurcussion.
I just listened to the Fire and Blood audiobook and I’m partway through A Game of Thrones. imo… Hot D is already falling off. The creators have written themselves into corners that may make season 3 even worse. Season 1 had some questionable things but it was a borderline masterpiece. Season 2 reminds me of GoT season 6ish. The problem is that these TV people are not clever enough to wholly adapt George’s works independently of the source material. The books have grounding and a realistic sense of consequence that just isn’t there in GoT s7 and 8 and this hot d s2. In George’s writing, there is NO WAY two warring matriarchs sneak into each other’s camps and walk out to tell the tales. Especially after Luke and Jae’s deaths. Another thing that bugged me (from s1) is Rhaenys not knowing Laenor’s body. Mothers know their kids. You’re telling me she can’t even identify his feet??? Silly little things like that break the rules of the ASOIAF universe and break immersion. Yes, it’s a fantasy epic about Dragons, zombies, and magic. But you can’t break your universe’s rules. The aforementioned Rhaenys was setup as a super observant, wisdom character. But as soon as the writers wanted to get rid of Laenor, they turned her into Mrs Magoo. The character inconsistency is bs and part of why the show will ultimately disappoint. It’s actually funny how this feminist overkill is producing unrealistic women.
As a non-book reader, I was intrigued by the idea that Rhaenyra would be turned on by Mysaria's support of her, but people better versed in Fire and Blood have rightly explained that it makes no sense both for the narrative (it leads to nothing and is as if it never happened) and in the context of the scene itself, in which Mysaria is recounting traumatic sexual assault. I understand the desire to defend it, but on its face, it just doesn't work. If anything, I'm surprised it isn't being called out as shallow queerbaiting.
The complete flanderization and character assassination of Aegon and the whitewashing of Rhaenyra and removal of all her more unhinged behavior in the books is straight up obnoxious at this point. In the books Aegon doesn't run away from the throne, he flat-out tells Criston Cole and his mother Alicent that "Rhaenyra is the rightful queen." And it's only after Criston convinces him that Rhaenyra will kill him and his sister and brother if she takes the throne, pointing out Vaemond being *fed to Rhaenyra's dragon* as proof of her unhinged behavior that Aegon finally relents. For fuck sake *they removed Daeron as a character from the show entirely* because they *knew* that everyone and their mother would like the noble, humble, and compassionate Daeron. They *desperately* want the viewer to hate the Greens. *Desperately.* Even GRRM who literally is a self-admitted Daemon/Black fanboy said he was irritated by Blood and Cheese's changes.
I’m starting to think Alicent was written for S2 to be a *comedic* character if you don’t watch HOT D as a serious drama. Some of the shit she’s doing here is hilarious if you think about it. Getting eaten out. Taking trips to a forest to go swimming while a war is going on. Alicent in S2 can be memes for ages like Bully Maguire. Play HOT D silently and Alicent might be the most hilarious character on here. Rhaenyra will get eaten and Alicent will be like: Done that, girl. It’s awesome! Yeah, the most useless and stupidest character in the show who accidentally started a war might just be my new favorite character. Her Funko toys at a discount of $5.55 are flying off the shelves! This chick isn’t aware a war is going on around her. She’s tone deaf. Her grandson died, she forgets about him in the next episode. She insults Aegon which hurts his pride, then 4 episodes later, she’s willing to sell him out and Aemond. I love you, Alicent. Your kids don’t. Olivia Cooke is a great actress, but man, they made her character as dumb as rocks. No wonder we see photos of Matt Smith and Olivia Cooke hanging out a lot. It was paid vacation for them. Daemon and Alicent do absolutely nothing in it. Daemon got to be Mickey Mouse in Castle of Illusions. Alicent got laid and took baths. Easy payday for Matt and Olivia. We will never escape the White Walkers shit. In A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, the White Walkers will be mentioned again. Daemon’s weirwood vision was only the beginning of this shit. Every series set in Westeros will mention the White Walkers. HBO might as well give us a series about Old Valyria. It’s the only way to escape the Night King nonsense, the most overused plot device for these Westeros shows. These characters won’t even live long enough to see Arya kill the Night King. Why should they be concerned about White Walkers like a century or two earlier? Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Please make it stop!
@@LordFleaBottom A Valyria series will probably be in the 2030s when CGI is easier/cheaper. The production team ran out money with Rook’s Rest, Red Sowing, and that Silverwing-Vhagar chase scene alone. A well-done Valyria series would (and probably should) cost ten times as much right now. Lastly, I wouldn’t be surprised if the magic of Valyria’s dragons is tied to the Old gods of the Children. Don’t forget, the Night King was made with a Dragon glass dagger, at least in the show. And Valyrian steel kills walkers.
They never explained why/how there wasnt a single kings guard around when the child was beheaded. Then the opening of the very next episode showed literally countless kings guards running around and wreaking havoc. Like wtf 😒
The guards were with Aegon drunk and parting the guys who were “his friends” and they were the others not drinking keeping watch and then Cole was screwing Alicent how is that hard to understand besides the Greens were really worried about attack from the dragons and not a more nefarious silent strike
@@kyloren1014 That's some excellent head cannon, and I filled the gaps very similarly myself, but that's exactly my point. The show didn't even try to actually directly address it directly. Cole is not the only kings guard assigned to the royal chambers.
@@afordiam yes we saw the guards with Aegon in the throne room and Ser Erik or the other one even told Coke he was with king and we don’t need to be spoon fed every detail
@@kyloren1014 the major issue persists here. There were maybe 15-20 kings guard in the throne room with aegon, including his ~3 kings guard friends, 3-5 civilian friends, and Cole with Alisent. The opening scene of the next episode showed at least 50 - 60 kings guard running around wreaking havoc. No castle just dismisses 75% of the security force at night, when surprise attacks are statistically most likely. We DO need to be spoon-fed. That is the point of visual media like movies, etc. You use your imagination when reading. The point of visual media is not to just leave everything to the audiences imagination. That's called lazy writing. You SHOW them a beautiful, well planned story as it unfolds. You use facial expression, tone of voice, music, etc, to fill in gaps so you don't just have characters lazily talking to the audience about what is happening.
@@afordiamthis is exactly how we ended up in the boat we’re in with movies. The makers are having to compensate for people that can’t put together context on their own and it’s dumbing down scenes taking away from the rest of the story.
Rhaenyra should have been the one pushing Rhaenys and Daemon to kill Vhagar and Aemond, Daemon being more cunning than that pushes back on her orders and goes"a son for a son", while Rhaenys becomes a voice of reason for Rhaenyra's outbursts. It makes no sense that Rhaenyra never activelly makes a move against Aemond and that Daemon is somehow now afraid of the kid 🤦♂️
Did we watch the same show? Rhaenyra actively tries to do NOTHING and disregards her counselors because "men bad". If you wont listen to your council, why have one in the first place. Eveything that went wrong post Luke death is all on Rhaenyra's hand, she actively does nothing, and when her council tells her to do something, she does nothing again.
Sara Hess it’s all Sara Hess fault. You can tell she’s not being told No. That’s on Condal as well. I say Hess because when she spoke out in season 1 hating on daemon u saw the results of her doubling down this season. The dragon scene in s1 e9 was hers. Men = Bloodthirsty & Bad Women = Peace & Rainbows
Aegon is certainly not portrayed as bloodthirsty and bad. Some characters talk about him that way, sure. What of it? Ser Criston? Otto Hightower? Viserys? Jace is dope, if underdeveloped in the last half of the season. I can’t think of a truly bloodthirsty or cruel “main” male character other than prince regent and king consort, as framed by the show.
I don’t think Alicent is “peace and rainbows.” Rhaenyra kinda is (her passivity and peacefulness have lead to negative consequences, at least), Rhaena definitely was and it was annoying.
@@willr3891 hanging the rat catchers? Sending assassins,His direct statement that it’s time for war? The men around rhaenyra ARE being portrayed as bloodthirsty and bad rhaenys even says so. Rhaenyra literally risks her life to talk to her former besties in what is the episode that broke me. The writers intent is so obvious but unfortunately has the side effect of making the female characters seem emotional and unfit to rule
@@willr3891alicent literally gave up her ‘boys’ same ones she almost killed rhaenyra for in s1. Then asked rhaenyra to run away with her 😂 I mean even thinking about it is kinda upsetting. Dunno what Hess and Condal are smoking.
My main issue with the show is the destruction of the two main characters of the wars : Rhaenyra and Alicent. They tried so hard to not show them under a bad light, that they just become caricatures of their characters, and don't have any interesting traits, whereas their books counterparts are way more driven and realistic : they're two power-hungry women who want control over the Iron Throne, wich makes them have way more agency than they have in the show (In the books, men actually respect Alicent advices and place in the Small Council because she is actually useful). They also hate each other, and Alicent is actually scared Rhaenyra is going to kill her and her children in the books, another reason to take power away from her. The rivalry between Otto and Daemon is something they also missed, since it's another huge reason why the Greens don't want Rhaenyra on the throne : they're scared Daemon is going to be a new Maegor the Cruel. So all those reasons would've made the show more complex, if done right. But they didn't understand that the Dance was a story about how a family can destroy its power and itself, not a girlboss feminist show about why men are bad and take power away from women. The show also lacks a lot of subplots that made GOT interesting : the side storylines, the dynamics between characters... GOT wasn't always about the War of the five kings, it was more than that, it was about Tyrion and Cersei hatred for each other, it was about Jaime and Cersei love, Sansa reconnecting with her nothern roots, Daenerys and what justice is, if ruling if a right or duty, Jon and honor, Arya and a tale about revenge and what trauma does to a little girl, whereas in HOTD it feels like the characters have no other issues than the Dance. I expected more from Jace and Baela relationships, discussions between Otto and Larys about what is power and ruling, I wanted to see a real deep storyline about Haeleana and the loss of her son, and what grief does to her. The show's also too clean in terms of cinematography. Why the early seasons of GOT felt so realistic was because the scenery, the costumes, the way it was filmed was not too perfect or symetrical or clean. In HOTD they try so hard (just like the latest seasons of GOT) for the show to be eye-pleasing, unfortunately it lacks essence and authenticity. Those writers miss the mark on everything they touch. They think they're smarter than the original creator and change important part of the story, just to realize later they don't know how to advance because they didn't think it through (Rhaenys killing hundreds of citizens in season 1 when she escapes KL, the whole war being a misunderstanding because they don't want to show Alicent being ambitious...). We're watching the marvel-ization of the GOT universe and it just pains me because so much love was put on this masterpiece. I'm done with modern shows tbh. There are other things I think the show did bad (lack of humor for example) and good (merging Nettles and Rhaena) but i'm gonna end it here.
Precisely!!! I always thought from the beginning the Show somehow felt „sterile“ but couldn‘t put it into words. You nailed it. Currently watching Episode 4 if Season 2 and it Looks wayyy too clean!!! Two dragons Are currently fighting and it simply Looks WORSE than in GOT, how can that be?!!
All the characters have NO DEPTH at all. There is no Tyrion with sass, no Cersei who you could hate from the beginning, no Joffrey and Ramsey to hate, no plotting Varys and Littlefinger. I prefer watching reactions to GOT instead of shitty HOTD.
Aemond is the coolest character in the Game of Thrones universe, and they mishandled him. Too the show does stray from the books; Aemond doesn’t hurt Aegon in the book, their sister the queen is assassinated in the book not her son, and Rhanyra was the one who sent the killer- she didn’t show remorse either. They make her look like a much better person in the show
They wanted us to hate aegon thats why they made him cruel and invented stuff like the childrens in the fighting pits and the violence against women,only because they wanted us to take the side of rhaenyra from the start. But take these two parts away from the show and aegon its pretty much the best character even though he didn't had a lot of screentime compare to the others
I think HOT D is doomed from the start. If they followed what GRRM wrote, non-book readers and casuals will also get pissed on what the writers did to Rhaenyra thinking it’s no different than Dany. People saying Rhaenyra is their Queen only to realize she isn’t the Queen they thought they knew. The Dance only lasts two years. I honestly thought it could’ve been finished in 30 episodes in 3 seasons of 10 episodes each. S1 could’ve been told in 5 episodes. Then once we get to the Aegon/Rhaenyra scene which might be the only time they ever interact, the show ends. You can’t continue the show after the main characters are gone. We’re already 18 episodes into this series and it just feels like Rhaenyra and Alicent are forgetting what’s happening to their children or grandchildren and they’re playing around. It’s not war. It’s Capture the Flag. How could Rhaenyra meet Alicent an episode later after there was an assassination attempt on her life? And not once did she even mention it. One of the aspects I love about Game of Thrones was how much I enjoyed several characters. I remember ranking about 50 of my favorite characters from both GOT and HOT D combined and 80% came from GOT. And about 85% from my top 20 which means I like about 17 GOT characters out of the first 20. What made GOT shine were the side characters like Bronn, Tormund, and Davos. Bronn wasn’t even in the books and Jerome Flynn portrays him like Errol Flynn in Robin Hood if he turned into a mercenary who curses a lot. S1-S4 Tyrion is probably more likable than any character in HOT D and that includes Daemon. I honestly don’t know what the writers will do to Daemon because it almost feels like they want us to hate their version of him when he’s really the only charismatic character in the series. Watch us end up hating every single character in the show and realizing this was a big waste of time watching 4 seasons of drivel in 8 years! Pretty much every major character dies and even someone you might feel is morally good like Helaena or Simon Strong won’t have a happy ending. If they do go by the book, it’s going to upset people because many are already attached to Rhaenyra like they were to Daenerys. If they don’t go by the book, people will still get upset thinking this is some silly Wattpad fanfic by Condom/Mess. One of the writers already feels like she’s HOT D’s version of Leslye Headland who’s really an activist pretending to be a writer and GRRM fangirl trying to draw W scenes for her LGBT community. Then we got Warner Bros. in debt and a lot of these battles won’t come cheap. Imagine it takes maybe 1.5 years to complete Avengers: Doomsday. But that’s only 2.5-3 hours. HOT D has 8 hours of content if it’s 8 episodes. That’s painfully long to film a season and they’re not filming it until next year. I say real filming for a big budget movie like Doomsday would be 2-3 months. But it took HOT D S2 from April to Sept of last year. That’s 5 months but you saw what we got. About 4 hours of nothingburgers. Now imagine when we get battle after battle? I think this show will end up being another disaster where we pretty much hate every character or feel indifferent except for maybe Daemon although I won’t be surprised if we all ended up hating him too, and it was 8 years of wasting time waiting to cover 4 seasons for an overrated part of Targaryen history where we hardly saw a war or dragons fighting each other. I’m already pissed with the White Walker callback in Daemon’s weirwood vision because it’s a bad reminder of how GOT S8 ended and how a little Stark girl with only 2 years of training will save them from the big, bad Night King. That was 8 years of hyping up the White Walkers and they got killed off by a little Stark girl who kept getting beaten up by the Waif only 2 seasons prior. Daemon saying winter is coming in High Valyrian was cringey af. Let the two dueling queens focus on the war at hand. Who gives a fuck about a threat that will happen 200 years later? And even if the current characters in HOT D believe Daenerys is The Prince Who Was Promised or even Jon, they’re going to have shitty endings anyway! Dany is going to die after helping Winterfell with her dragons. Jon gets a slap on the wrist and gets his first job back but without any more White Walker threats. Going back to GOT callbacks is a waste of time because how badly it ended. Two dueling queens having civil meetings and forgetting that one of their kins just died and then have sex with a Kingsguard or make out with her husbuncle’s former lover. I hardly saw Alicent grieve. One of the queens forgot she could’ve been killed an episode earlier but never mentions it to the other. Then you take GRRM’s favorite Targ and turn him into a soy boy and giving him worthless GOT callbacks that only left a sour taste in our mouths thanks to S8. I have lost faith in HBO. They will hype up a certain aspect of the story like “winter is coming” for years only to undeliver once again by the time it’s over. Rhaenyra starts acting like a bitch. She’s killed. THE END. Viewers by 2028: WTF was that? Did I just rewatch what happened to Dany all over again? Man, fuck this show. Daemon will be the equivalent to Qimir / The Stranger / Smilo Ren in The Acolyte where he’s the only character worth it to watch and literally carries the show. Ok, maybe Aemond is cool to watch too. They’re the Final Fantasy characters, right? Guys will cosplay as them and buy merch of them. Their Battle Above the Gods Eye would be equivalent to Battle of Mustafar that I first heard about in the late 90s only to be so psyched to finally see it by Revenge of the Sith. But who knows if HBO screws up that scene? Who gives a damn what happens 200 years later? Just focus on the war at hand.
Well said about the side characters making the plot and the story. Cregan Stark, Jeyne Arryn, Nettles, and Daeron were the most anticipated characters of season 2 and look what happened. We got four minutes of Cregan, with his scene being absolutely worthless. 5 minutes of Jeyne, no Nettles and no Daeron. Like, what's the point if you aren't going to follow their stories? Their stories are essential to the Dance, I mean Cregan's whole purpose of sending the Wolves and coming South himself was because of his oath to JACE. But we didn't get to see any of that. And Jace's death is gonna pretty pointless too. He was greatly mourned by his faction and now it's gonna be like "Oh no...well, anyway."
I think theyre falling into the white feminism trap. Where just because youre oppressed by men, doesnt mean you arent also hurting others by trying to climb this hierachy. I think that was a good angle for season one, but now that both these women have basically reached the pinnacle of what power looks like for women in this society, its a good time to step back and look at all the bodies they had to step on to get there, and all the current harm theyre causing by perpetuating this system
I noticed about half way through that this show was losing its steam, the episode when the random basterd son of the sea snake got a dragon for no reason it just happened with no foreshadowing or build up and I was like ok nothing matters
what do you mean no buildup? seasmoke was circling in the air above him episodes before... were you also surprised when hugh and ulf got dragons i thought it was all very on the nose tbh
@@JigglyRose I can’t remeber their names but at least the one guy with the sick daughter had some buildup and demonstrated bravery in the face of the dragon, the other guy was disrespectful had no honorable things about him and stumbled up on the dragon like a coward stepped on an egg and got a dragon, why? It feels like nothing matters, I would believe that the dragons can sense courage and honor and pick their rider based off some sense they have, but this guy walks up to it like a bumbling cowardly fool and gets a Dragon?
@@Japangf2345oh i agree its inconsistent that darklyn died because he was scared but then addam seemed scared too and seasmoke didnt seem to mind so it was odd ...in the books addam gets to claim seasmoke because of bravery he saved alyn the other brother instead who gets burned but i guess they thought it would be repetitive cuz hugh saves the women in the show idk tbh
Rhaenyra and Alicent kinda forgot that, in agreeing to legitimize Rhaenyra's rule, Alicent is actually signing the death warrants for both Helaena and Jaehaera as well, since thanks to Rhaenyra's taking the throne in her own name, other royal Targaryen women are now also eligible for the throne suo jure and therefore as much a threat to Rhaenyra's claim as Aegon, Aemond and Daeron. But nahhhhh let's not mention this because Women Good, Men Bad.
4:23 the women arent trying to "avoid" war. Rhaenera is absolutely power hungry. She wants the throne, has killed countless peasants trying to find a rider, and could just bend the knee to avoid all of this. Alisant pretends she wants to avoid war but could have eneded it when Rhanera snuck into the church to meet with her. Just take her captive
That, ORRRRR…. it turning out that Alicent actually did betray her and was in on the escape of Aegon with Larys. Maybe they show Haelena being sent away, too. Idk. Could work.
A flawed season, but still enjoyable as hell and better than most other shows out there. Def better than GOT S8. Everyone loves to point out the bad stuff, but there were a lot of great things about the season, too.
@@thegoldman25 yes.but he itself said episode 8 was written by sara hess his co writer. but i am very sorry to mention her personal life she married a girl adopting a son as their child. so i think she has no idea about motherhood. i am a girl and mother of two children it makes no sense for me(that alicent rhaenyra meeting). Alicent asked Rhaenyra to COME WITH ME????? What non sense is that!!!! House of the dragon is a not Targaryen civil war anymore, its two girls love failure divorce drama from here on.
@@gopalkrishnan3196 I mean, that's a bit presumptuous don't you think? The idea that you need physical experience does a discredit to all the childless writers who are still capable of writing compelling family drama through empathy, reason and a bit of imagination. I'm not ultimately disagreeing with you - the Alicent Rhaenyra plot line feels like it comes awfully close to convenient, poorly thought out fan fiction, but the writer's family situation shouldn't have a bearing on their ability to imagine. Rather, this writer in particular just didn't infuse the story with good ideas. Given the vague source material, they could've gone ANYWHERE, but where they ultimately chose wasn't particularly satisfying. (And they kept patting Rhaenys on the back for her morality when she stomped plenty of King's Landing folks at the inauguration. Felt like they were playing favourites a little too blatantly, i think.)
@@runawaywolf2570I As a son of a mother on I know my own mother would not act like these women. She always fought for me. It's clear that yes, a lesbian literally cannot understand these characters - the writing is proving that
We didn’t need Rhaenyra and Alicent reunion when they could of had they conversation in season 3. Didn’t need Sara Huess hate for Daemon character to ruin him.
I've never seen a character butchered like Alicent, I loved her in the books and season one, but after this season I can't stand her, the writers tried to make her sympathetic but failed miserably, we wanted a badass matriarch like cersei, but they're trying so hard to prevent the women from being bad guys which makes them uninteresting, indecisive and fickle, which just reinforces why Rhaenyra should not be Queen
You should be on the writing team. I will say, I disagree with Aegon not being portrayed as "cruel" in S2. He executed several innocent men *and* had them hung on display.
As a network unless your going under financially. You should never cut corners with your flagship show. Reducing the season and cutting the budget really dragged this season down. As a paying viewer, I felt let down this season.
As someone who's read the books all I can say is they have totally messed up the timeline. If you read the book you know who rules at the end, and how old this person currently is in the show. The pacing is atrocious, the characters have been made unrelatable and the showrunners haven't really given us a reason to care for most of them. My gf, who cries at everything, hasn't cried over a single death in this show. She stopped watching after blood and cheese murdered Aegons son, because in the show it was handled so poorly.
Yeah this doesn't have the S1 emotionally evocative moments, you cry at Aemma's death, the last supper with Viserys and his death... I think only the first episode of S2 actually moved me, so kudos to Alan Taylor and Ryan Condal for that. And I was just "in shock" when B&C happened, which is the point. But I feel like after episode 3, the writing quality takes a major dive... In a show well known for its writing, and is adapted from the work of a writer. Writers' strike, Max doing away with 2 whole episodes, Miguel Sapochnik not being on the project have really affected the quality of the show. And yes, I did not like some creative decisions, but they're the least of my concerns when looking at the potential looming catastrophe ahead where Zaslaf will want to "save" more money 😑
@@samf.s.7731 She didn't cry at Aemmas death either, we didn't really know her and casual fans probably can't pick her out of a character line up. They haven't established any of the characters in this world. The world building and character development has been atrocious.
I have to Force myself to finish season 2 because I already paid for it. I have no attachment to ANY of the characters, they simply have no depth at all. Season 1 wasn’t better. I rather Watch reactions to GOT than this Shit.
The writer's strike had ZERO effect on the show since they didn't film in the US. I don't remember where they filmed but they have their own rights and regulations over there.
Yes and no. Initial scripts were finished, but no on-set rewrites could be made, therefore changing something that didn't work or coming up with new ideas wasn't possible.
Spoiler alert but Rhaneyra doesn’t do much else in the war from here, at least in the books. Everyone else does the fighting for her so I’m interested to see how the show handles that. Her inactivity is actually on par with the book. In fact, by the end of the war she’s to overweight and out of shape to even ride her dragon; I’m not kidding. She also ends up being a horrible, corrupt queen who everyone hates.
@@khfan4life365thought it wouldn’t have saved the season it would have made most of the watchers like it a lot more. What this season was missing was spectacle( rooks rest isn’t enough). Though I prefer good writing over spectacle most people rather something cool to look at
This season felt like it was in autopilot, just checking the boxes to get from point A to point B. There was no gravitas in the story, no stakes. Blood and Cheese felt like an afterthought, the Battle of Rooks Rest lacked energy, Harrenhal scenes repeated over and over again, Rhaenyra and Alicent met not only once but TWICE, and what for?…
@@PattisKarriereKarten LOL Yeah, I had to scoff at him for saying Season 1 was "masterclass." That's really overpraising it. There were good parts, mediocre parts, bad parts. There's way too much hyperbole when it comes to praising a lot of modern shows. Hell, I really like Severance but I'm not ready to call it a masterpiece (like so many others are already claiming) until I see how Season 2 goes and even then I might need another season.
What they did to allicents character kinda ruined the show for me. I thought I was alone in thinking the writing being bad compared to s1, but I guess not
I'm so sick of that particular flavor of misogyny where a fictional powerful woman is instead portrayed as incapable of wrongdoing and placed upon a pedestal and is just a victim of the men around her. They have taken one of the most powerful women in Westeros history, loved and hated by many, and reduced her to straight up "a victim of dumb men that she can't control." *Rhaenyra in the books feeds people to her dragon IN PUBLIC before Viserys even fucking dies bro, what are these writers huffing besides pure copium?* They have completely removed her agency and accountability as a character. All of her actions later in the dance will make absolutely no fucking sense and she will be viewed as Dany 2.0.
If they just said, "hey guys, the writers strike f'ed us and the schedule, but we want to give you some episodes so youre not waiting even longer," I think fans would have accepted it with open arms. Rather, they just decided to surprise us all with buildup and no payoff.
Aegon isn’t cruel?? Well……. He did enjoy orphan kids out in a ring to fight each other. That’s pretty sick. Not to mention his disregard for girls who don’t want to engage in sexual acts with him. He is surely a victim too. But he can be a victim and cruel douchebag at the same time. He does have feelings, he is not as psycho as Joffrey or Ramsey tho
Idk how you didn’t get vibes that daemond wanted the throne, he has a scene where he remarks about him being in the line of succession once again after visarris’s wife and son died in childbirth causing visarris to banish him back to the river lands, it was even one of his visions almost beat for beat remake of that scene except visarris comes across as more sad in it instead of his furry from the first season, also where was it foreshadowed that alicent just wants to sacrifice her sons just so she can go live peacefully in season one, it wasn’t in the slightest, if anything she’s a huge cause for all this conflict so I can’t see it as anything other than a character assassination
The whole rise of Rhaenyra seems too gifted to me.. what has she ever suffered, what did she ever have to do to become Queen, how did she earn her right to be Queen ? No, she was the 'chosen' one, the position of queen 'fell' into her lap, she has not gone through a painful story arc to become skilled in any way (like we clearly saw with Daenarys) to become a leader, she has not managed to align any houses to her cause or raise an army in her name (Daemon did that). Her only skill appears to be looking angry at the horizon. Daemon's character was slaughtered this season 02, cowtowing to everyone he meets and/or opposes him.. going to the Riverlands and being turned the back on by a faction that refused to follow his cause.. with that humiliating shot of him and his dragon behind the faction lord riding away.. it was pityful. Question remains... what has Rhaenyra ever achieved to become the queen ? .. and the answer is a shocking nothing. All she did was marry and cheat on her husband...
I refused to read the book after season 1,it was so great I wanted to experience it for the first time as the episodes came out. I started reading the book after season 2, fuck it I'm not waiting 2-3 years for another disastrous season.
I really like your Alicent and Aegon rewrites. What bothered me about the conversation between Rhaenyra and Alicent was that it was clear that Rhaenyra wants to kill both Aegon and Aemond. So "a son for a son" is a lie! Alicent already lost her grandson and would also lose two sons. It bothered me that Alicent didn't express any of this to Rhaenyra. Alicent loving Aegon and treating him like the golden child his whole life would help make the entire story make more sense to me. It would explain Aemond's hatred of Aegon and his mommy issues.
This reminds me of Anna Taylor Joy interview about women's rage portrayed in films. Women get mad snd rage too, women have aspirations and pursue power also.
the prophecy BEING THE WHOLE REASON OF THE DANCE IS FUCKING DUMB is exactly what they did with the Hobbit movies, oh is a precuel of LOTR so we need fanservice and references . . . why emm try to be his own story about POWER MOTHERS AND PLANS nahhhh better make Alicent read the prophecy wrong, and Rhaenyra the good girl and Daemon another who knows the song of GOT season 8 . . .
I enjoyed this video man, great analysis! Surprised you didn't speak about Criston Cole though, his arc was probably the most enjoyable for me, seeing a man who wants to do good but always screw up hide under a sense of righteousness, to finally realize and admit he was wrong.
Unfortunately they screwed up the two main characters which had a negative impact on the rest of the season. The actions of Rhaenera and Alicent this season are laughably dumb and not believable to what the characters in the book or even season 1 would have done. Luckily the action and screenplay was still amazing but the writing of the main characters was so bad this season.
2:22 - She never wanted to be a queen? You already lost me. Did you not watch the entirety of series 1 and 2 where most of her actions were because she WANTED to be queen? You do get that all she needed to do if she didn't want it was to concede to Aegon's ascension and no blood would've been spilled, right? Just because they keep saying she didn't want it in series 2, doesn't mean it's true.
The actual reason why it was bad: - HBO went Girl Boss but in truth Alicent and Rhynera dont do much of anything in the books at this point - HBO want Ryhnera to be a white night, when in the books she was a drunk, gained weight , jealous of nettles, mean and some what of a tyrant/spoiled brat . GRRM makes all of his characters grey. - made up plot points lead to bad writing in the books Alicent never mistakenly takes Viserys word for the iron throne, now they have pigeon hold themselves into this plot, when it was just lords seeing a woman in a place of power it could change thier poisiton
I'm autistic and I think Helaena's portrayal works quite well. I oftentimes feel things so much that I end up not being able to feel them at all because my body shuts down the emotion as to not be overwhelmed
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Can you rewrite it like you did for the acolyte
And let me ask how would you do it? Bc I doubt it’d be better
Alicent-Rhaenyra being too much of a "friends" thing is overdone - them being enemies is more interesting, since the tragedy of 'lovers' turned enemies is more compelling than them inexplicably meeting twice with no actual plot advancement
I tend to agree
Both of their meetings were crucial to their individual storylines. Had they not met in the Great Sept, Alicent would never have realised that she was mistaken about Viserys' final wishes. Once Alicent discovered that she had been wrong all along regarding the promised heir, she chose to abandon her royal duties. As a result, she later meets Rhaenyra at Dragonstone to conspire against her own sons and help Rhaenyra sit the Iron Throne, which indeed happens in later episodes. Without their renewed connection, the story wouldn’t have progressed beyond just the "Danse of the Dragons". That said, it’s clear they are no longer friends. At this stage, they don’t need to be friends to “set things right”; Rhaenyra merely has to trust Alicent as an "old friend".
@@thalè-s-muet come on dude. Come on dude. really? come on dude
@@thalè-s-muet in a vacuum yes, it’s crucial to the charters
But since there is really no cause and effect that doesn’t matter
The reason why George’s writing and GoT was so good is because the characters drove the plot. In HotD character development and the plot run parallel.
Hopefully that changes but - like case in point Alicent has this huge character moment where she concedes to Rhaenyra killing her eldest son. But it’s already undercut because we know Aegon is gone. There are no stakes.
All of season 2 is sabre rattling. They tease that something will happen then pull back and everything goes back to status quo
Yeah, the writers completely missed the point of the Dance of the Dragons. The emnity between Rhaenyra and Alicent was the catalyst for the whole war.
Rhaenyra at the end of season 1:
🤬😡🗡
Rhaenyra all of season 2:
😢🫶👼🏻
Blood and cheese kind of flipped that though, her rage was undercut by her guilt of her husband taking her orders and using them to justify murdering a child. It would be bad writting if she didn't drastically change after something like that also the reality is she was stuck anyway if they all just charged Kinglanding they couldn't defeat Sunfyre, Dreamfyre, and Vhagar plus the arrows and scorpions of the red keep.
Yeah that's what's so frustrating. The season 1 finale was all about Rhaenyra trying to prevent a war through diplomatic means and open dialogue but once her son is murdered, the gloves came off with her deathstare. But then season 2 focused on her trying to be diplomatic again??
@moe5020 don't see how that would stop her for wanting Aemond's head on a spike. Sure she can be furious with Daemon, that's fine with me.
@@blacksunday4231 It didn't but she feels guilty because she got angry and demanded revenge and Daemon then took that energy committed something far worse. She obviously still want justice but she's now aware of how dangerous it can be to be blinded by rage if your the queen. It was Daemons fault yes but he's her champion and she's never had to deal with this level of carnage being done in her name and it makes her feel like she's not in control which influences her reluctance for the rest of the season. It's mirrored with Daemon and Willem Blackwood where Daemon basically gets put in Rhaenyra's shoes having someone take your desires and use them to make you complicit in evil
@@blacksunday4231 it didn't in ep 8 she's pretty clear she still wants both Aemond and Aegon dead.
Some people on social media: Fire and Blood isn't supposed to be a completely true story. The showrunners can adapt things how they want. They don't have to follow the source material."
My brothers in Christ, they are not even following season one.
season 1 did make big changes
@@thegoldman25no, this person meant that the show is not consistent with itself
@@yasmina3999Exactly & even ppl who say F&B is unreliable clearly haven't read it. Archmaester Gyldayn is reliable for the most part because he bluntly states when a source seems to be far-fetched.
@@thegoldman25What are you trying to say here?
@@HOTD108_ he didnt get what the first comment meant
I think the writers want the blacks to be the good guys in all this but it just robs them of being interesting. In reality both are villains of different varieties and they should stick to that. Them doing the bit with Rhaenyra where she’s motivated by revenge but simultaneously trying to be a good person while simultaneously sending dozens of men to their death against the dragons, it’s just fighting against itself and undermining what could be interesting.
I agree
Did you just read the book? The greens are absolutely awful in the book. There is nothing to love about them ( alicent and Otto letting viserys corps rotts for days and maybe even poison him) the show has on contrary humanize them a lot especially alicent and aegon and everybody feels for helaena so I don't see how the show villainize them. From the start they usurp the throne despite viserys wishes, you can't change that.
@@romainchambard4399 In the book they’re both villains with Rhaenyra being motivated by revenge which is why she’s making such rash decisions now. They did humanize the greens in the show but Rhaenyra is hardly looked at objectively and Aemond is a borderline cartoon villain by the end of s2 despite deeper layers being hinted at. Objectively speaking she’s just as in the wrong as Allicent but in different ways but the show picks sides as to which one is right and wrong.
@@romainchambard4399The blacks are just as if not more wretched as well. There is even less to love about the blacks. The blacks have been civilized ten times more, Rhaenyra more so than any other character on either side. The show is most certainly black biased and purposeful and ridiculously villainizes the greens. By the standards and laws of the society this show is based on it should clearly give the greens the moral and legal high ground, it does not matter what Viserys wanted Aegon is his first born son and the true heir end of story that’s just how monarchy functions.
This is just personal opinion, many people believe that the King's word is law. @@Iruma366
The writers just cant write shades of gray like Martin does.
true, but they did such a great job in season 1
@@thegoldman25 Martin was more involved with season 1 I think.
Also Sapochnik was a big loss.
@@tpmedia3784what happened to him?
@@saucerar7615 office politics it seems
@@tpmedia3784 that destroyed game of thrones i hope HotD dont maje the same mistake.
Rhaenerya: "What would you have me do?"
The Audience: "ANYTHING!"
Rhaenyra: Smooches Mysaria The Audience: 🙄
Yeah that lezzo smooch was a real "girl power" moment.
Rhaenyra, the queen who never does
@@khaled7688Rhaenyra, the queen that sucks
@@vincentadultman6226 😂 sucks harwin strong
It’s simple: Letting go Miguel Sapochnik as showrunner made the show lose focus. It was padded with unnecessary scenes with no vision. At times it felt like a different show. Even many of the special effects looked worse.
yeah Sapochnik would've known that the season needed to go out on a banger like thrones
why would they get rid of their best director....
@Ronin.97 it turns out their best director is a fan of nepotism.
This just shows you that just because someone is very talented doesn't mean their incorruptible
@@kungalexander829 Yeah I found out about that after making that comment. I see now why they had to remove him. Seems his void though has caused a problem with the writers room now being some sort of echo chamber. More interested in their ideas than the actual story. Of course Sapochnik was doing the same just when it came to his wife.
Aemond and Aegon were the best characters this season.
Put Jace in there too!
@@thegoldman25Jace as well and maybe Baela
@@thegoldman25Jace mewed through the whole season and had 3 sentences at best 🤣
@@Hear.myvoice lmao so your judging him just because he looks good 😂 just because he has a better jawline than you 😂
@@amarihancock7343 Chill and read my comment again... I criticized the script not his looks 🤡
What a clown 🤣
Aegon is trully the best character of the show so far, idc what anyone says
He was amazing this season
Should have made him a main character last season
I’d say Otto is, his absence was felt immensely after episode 2
It’s def Otto or Daemon
Tho daemon spent 90% of the season tripping balls
@@solarmaru49 definitely not daemon , he isnt even top 5. writers fault tho
How so you backtrack Alicent betraying 99% of her family to death. Realistically they only mentioned Aegon but who she really betrayed was Aegon, Aemond, Dearon, Otto, Gawayne and Cole. And for what? that whole scene betrays everything she stood for in season 1 the core of her character
It made NO sense to betray Gwayne and Daeron - well, none of the betrayals made sense - because they were completely innocent in this. Daeron was young, kind, and completely innocent.
The kiss between Rhaenerya and Mysaria was so out of place too and the character's don't even adress it later. It's like the charecters don't even remember it but the actors playing the charecters just wanted to do it lol.
It was cut out in Russia due to censorship and I didn't even realize it was there before watching UA-cam videos.
I straight up forgot about it til now
Funny how you say that because that's exactly how it happened. It wasn't planned the actress who plays Rhaenyra just decided to kiss her and the director kept it in and "made it work".
@@Ronin.97nope. The kiss was planned but the hug before it wasn’t scripted. Also Emma uses they/them pronouns
@@blueyeshadow2738 Just looked it up and there are several articles pointing out it wasn't in the script. Also her pronouns are irrelevant and I don't give into people's unhealthy delusions.
Quote from the actress who plays Mysari "I think it was scripted as … there’s just breath between them or something, and then whatever happens is interrupted."
Rhaynera went from one of my favourite characters to probably the most boring for me to watch
I'm hopeful they can get her back on track
She was boring since episode 6 of season 1
When the casting change happened in s1, Rhaenyra's character died and never recovered
@@thegoldman25I miss Milly Alcock. She had more aura. Season 1 had enough material to be 2 seasons.
@@scrapnewyorkYep, the second actress doesn't have aura. Plus, her material is bad.
My issues with the show is not about following the book but the show doesn't follow its own Canon
Characters seems to forgot events & writers wants us to feel the event when characters themselves don't care about events happening to them
Nevertheless, I love this season, yes it has flaws but still a good drama to watch
Yeah, how the character react to the events around them is often weird
None of the characters feel human. In the book, they reacted like humans would, which made you sympathize with them. In the show, they are robots advancing the lackluster plot. For example, Rhaenyra should be furious about Luke and Alicent and Helaena should be both traumatized and furious about Jaehaerys. In the show, Rhaenyra seems to forget Luke, and Alicent and Helaena handwave Jaehaerys’s death as “babies die all the time” like he died of an illness instead of being violently decapitated like he was. The deaths of those two boys should be haunting the narrative, not forgotten within a few episodes.
Crumbles like tissue paper
Agreed
Rhaenyra is honestly a horrible character, I really dislike her. It’s not that she “doesn’t want to be Queen,” she wants to be Queen because she wants to be Queen and she never made any personal sacrifices for it. Alicent’s criticism of her that she has no honor or sense of duty is 100% correct. Like if you’re already going to have legitimacy problems because you’re breaking centuries of tradition by being the first female monarch, maybe don’t blow off finding a suitable husband, screw around with your retainers, and then have a bunch of very obvious bastards.
Agreed 100%. She should have slept with Laenor every day until some mocha skinned white haired babies popped out. 2 or 3 of those and then she could probably get away with as many bastards as she liked
But no Rhaenyra always needs to get exactly what she wants whenever she wants and the low born must pay for her desires with their lives.
And then after all getting rid of Laenor and marrying Daemon, she then goes on to cheat on Daemon with Mysaria!
She’s the worst type of person
Thisss, I don’t know why ppl don’t get this, I think rhaeynra is the rightful heir since the king named her his heir but her bastards aren’t the rightful heirs, her sons with daemon are, so either way a war would’ve broken out after rhaeynra died due to ppl believing ageon iii is the rightful heir or Jace, I find it funny that rhaeynra criticises her father for having sons after naming her heir (which she had every right to do it was stupid) but then does the exact same with the strong boys, but no one points it out for some bizarre reason and call alicent a hater for calling her out.
@@oceanfive5as they went with Leanor not being murdered then her kids with Daemon are not either
@@itspronouncednikolaj333 oh yeh he wasn’t dead when they married, I forgot they went with that whole storyline, yeh so technically even her sons with daemon don’t count, that’s crazy, she had 5 sons and none of them were legitimate, they messed up the story with not murdering leanor.
Aegon is a horrible character
Alicent's character became a mess when she was not involved in the green coup and plotting to put Aegon on the throne. All those years of building up her character arc to fear for her children's life and they threw it away and her motivations became 'duty' for Viserys who neglected her children with him. Worse now, she agrees to have Aegon executed publicly. What was the point of Alicent shielding Aegon from a dragon then? Did she forget that she was a fierce mother who no matter what loved her children regardless? And will protect ALL OF THEM at the cost of anything?
She protected him before she found out how shitty of a king he was and before he was completely broken and burned! My god. Obviously a lot has changed since his coronation so of course it makes sense then Alicent has changed as well
@user-bh2fz5sf5e Alicent feels guilty that she might be the reason her 2 sons turned out the way they are and her way to make it up to them is to betray and kill them?
The media is oversaturated with characters following linear, predictable arcs that often feel uninspired. I’d much rather watch characters with abrupt and seemingly arbitrary changes in their storylines, as long as those shifts make sense from a behavioural standpoint. Humans are inherently contradictory, and such changes, whether minor or significant, are often necessary for a story to remain engaging. That said, showrunners often manage to undermine their own good work for various reasons. However, this time there’s hope, as the series is only planned to run for two more seasons, leaving little room for them to stray too far from the excellent source material
@@bigjoh02 just to play devil's advocate, I believe Alicent said or alluded to the idea that for Aegon killing him is putting him out of his misery - and Aemond of course has become genocidal killing innocent people for very little reason. not saying I agree, but I believe those are the reasons she comes to that
@@h33-q8whe's not even a shitty king? What are you talking about? And Rhaenyra is surely not better, at least from Alicent's POV
HBO never learn from their mistakes
HBO is pretty good tbh
@@thegoldman25A decade ago maybe. We're talking about now.
I do find it funny how people constantly give the show credit for something it literally hasn't delivered on. It gives me flashbacks to how people excused Rhaenyra's passivity in the S1 finale, which also frustrated many viewers, by arguing that Luce was the breaking point and we were gonna see a much different Rhaenyra in S2. All that reassurance was bullshit!
Why should I give the show the benefit of the doubt? They have lost so much trust from me this season because of absolutely ridiculous story decisions.
Daemon needed to see GoT S8 spoilers in order to bend the knee to Rhaenyra? Now we'll never know if he would've done it of his own accord.
Alicent sacrificing the same son who she sacrificed everything for? Guess it's ok since he used to be a jackass...... even though Alicent was the one who got him into this mess in the first place.
Yeah it was weird
Technically it was Otto who got them into it let's be honest.
To be fair, there was no real reason for daemon to bend the knee. The flashbacks were kinda lame and dragged on but the only way would be for him to somehow realise things were bigger than him and his dreams in my mind knowledge of the song of fire and ice was the only real way for him to change heart
@@zarthur2752 so you admit that his "arc" was a writing failure. He literally needed to be told by God that "bend the knee to Rhaenyra or the world will end"?
That's my problem. Prophecy shouldn't be a substitute for character development.
I thought the moment when Daemon was handed Viserys' crown in S1E10 and he immediately crowned Rhaenyra, without a second thought, was such a powerful moment. And then the writers spent the entire S2 undercutting it.
Lame.
@@syedshahrukhraza2923 no I think the story was boring and slow. However what other mechanism could be used for his change of heart. Only thing I can think of his simply that he loves Rhynera which we all know he loves power more than her..
What other way would he change his mind is my question?
What development would change his character? Maybe if his dragon was killed but that ain't happening
Book greens literally engaged in a blood pact so that they will make decisions together and show greens have aemond deliberately killing aegon and alicent hating him. Oh yeah and I guess sunfyre is dead like what?😂
omg hahaha
They'll do like in the books he's not dead
@@drookieresident it’s been heavily implied. Hell aegon said he was dead and he of all people should know since riders and connected to their dragons.
@@lumarrandom8144 it was literally the same in the books & they hinted at Rhaenyra death through camera shots
They focus way too much on Alicent and Rhaenyra, who are both pretty boring. Alicent starts the season in a terrible love story and then after that just starts taking a bunch of baths. Rhaenyra's not as bad as Alicent but other than finding the dragon riders didn't really do anything this season.
Corlys has no relationship with his grandkids, Daemon has no relationship with his kids, Halaena has no relationship with her brothers or child, nobody has any relationship with their dragon. Everyone is just massively underdeveloped.
And why build up Daemon's betrayal only for him to do nothing and for it to go nowhere? Why build up to nothing happening? And the lords even said they'd only follow Rhaenyra so he wasn't even in a position to claim the army as his own.
Season 1 was far from a masterclass. It was massively rushed. 25 years crammed into 1 season. It's hard to create emotional attachments between the fans and the characters when the story's going a mile a minute. Viscerys's death was good but Luke's, Harwin's, Laena's, and Aemma's were all emotionless. And fast forward to season 2 the twins and the prince died and no one cared cuz we barely knew these characters. When are they gonna start developing their characters more?
i wouldn't agree they are boring, just mishandled a bit
@@thegoldman25mishandled a lot. Who found Alicent bath scenes exciting? And Rhaenyra accomplishes 1 thing this entire season. Finding dragon riders. They're cool but just like Baela, Rhaena, and Halaena they're barely developed.
Making these women a bunch of goody two shoes was just an awful idea
This!!!! I got dragged to hell and back when I said B&C would NEVER EVER come close to the Red Wedding the way so many fans predicted because they never gave us anything to work with. The characterization process was too accelerated. Just to save time, House Velaryon has been fucked beyond repair and it's obvious they could care less about them, so there is no need to really elaborate here, and I will include Baela and Rhaena in this as well as they are barely characters at this point.
Team Green serves to be completely fucked up with virtually no middle ground, something GOT House Lannister managed to retain. It's all or nothing. Aegon is forced into a position and basically abandoned and mocked. Alicent doesn't care. Aemond is just full-on psycho after feeling bad for killing Luke. I don't know what Helaena is. I did feel sorry for Criston in the last episode....he is finally showing buyer's remorse. I do like Gwayne and Otto.
Team Black...lordt. Jace isn't developed AT ALL and he's the heir. Corlys is only seen at the shipyard. Rhaena wants a dragon....so they have her running for four episodes to find one only to NOT claim it. Baela isn't Baela, she's Rhaenyra's cheerleader. Has anything come from her mouth that wasn't pro-Rhaenyra? It's like she's on a campaign trail. I want BAELA damnit! Lol. Well, she had that one time when she said she hates her father at times. Daemon's characterization enrages me, and I won't bother getting into it. I loved Lord Simon, he was a sweetheart.
And Rhaenyra. I am team Black but she has never been my favorite. Not in the way they are trying to market her....like Dany 2.0. I like her obviously, but I have not found it in myself to love her and the writing isn't doing her any favors. I still question why folks like Rhaenys weren't neutral.
I agree there has been almost no death in the show that effected me on an emotional point. It's like I'm just watching historical events play out rather than historical events that I feel like I'm a part of and with people I know and love. That's what early GOT felt like. And yeah so many characters needed to have more scenes together and didn't. And yeah I hate how little we see characters bond with their dragons. Aegon for example haf one of the closest connections to his. And we saw them together for 10 seconds.
They just wanted Daemon's loyalty to not be real to Rhaenyra and that's parallel with Aemond and Aegon but also opposite to Daemon with Viserys. The only one he truly loved and supported unconditionally
Alicent is one of my favourite characters in the first season; they butchered her arc in season 2. She's the one who put Aegon in this mess. Now she wanna out with Heleana. putting her sons to death? It makes no sense.
Sir Criston Cole, sees one dragon fight and then "Nope this wasnt i signed up for"😂
Heleana kinda of spoiled the whole series, instead of being a broken mother, now she will be 3 eyed raven
Aemond and Vhaegar are the best in season 2. But Aemond also has no real motive except to be in the green team.
Valid complaints. I miss season 1 Alicent
Aemond was such a disappointment for me. He has no charisma and every scene he is in relies on his intense glare. He doesn't speak to anyone candidly, he doesn't have any characterization beyond being a bad guy, and he doesn't hold a candle to the characterization his brother Aegon gets. Aemond is the only two dimensional character in this show.
To be honest the destruction of Alicent's character began in Episode 8 of Season 1. After 7 episodes of building up her rivalry with Rhaenyra, they flush it all away by having them make amends at the end. It only got worse from there.
Aemond is basically the anime villain without the charisma to at least make people like him in a way just as cersei,joffrey did
@@joelfelskeisn’t that close to the book?
Alicent came off as a pure psychopath this season, she litteraly cares only about herself
and the other women in her family
@@thegoldman25Yh sure she does…
it makes no sense for her character
Kind of a crazy take. Being that rhaenrya is literally a psychopath. She cheats, she lies, she gets people killed over her lies, she murders, she married a murderer, she does those things to her own family, yet all she cares about is her immediate family, she kills innocent people, she puts innocent people in harms way to advance her own selfish agenda….if this is a game of morality accent is 100x more ethical and moral than rhaenrya ever could be.
@@thegoldman25 A total misandrist then.
It's not a 8 episode season. It's a 10 episode season with 2 eps missing
agreed
Dude it felt meandering with 8 episodes. I couldn't imagine 3 more hours of that.
@@thezerowulf2046 with 10 eps we would have a battle in harrenhal
@@thezerowulf2046It was supposed to have 10 episodes but the writers strike happened and HBO decided to cut the budget and they only had enough money for 8 episodes. It’s obvious that The Gullet and the fall of King’s Landing were supposed to be episodes 9 and 10 respectively but Warner Brothers decided to tank their flagship show.
This
none of the characters feel like real people with humanity, traumas and flaws. everyone is a cardboard cutouts of tropes, or so opposite of what they were last season that it’s impossible to sympathize with or understand them. the only one that comes close to being anything human is Aegon, surprisingly.
Exactly. That’s because Identity politics Only allows people to be shallow shells of stereotypes instead of real people. That’s what recent, woke writers do: Insert their politics into Everything and Making it shallow and too clean. That’s Not how people work.
Aegon Targaryen is the BEST character of this show. Aemond and Jace are tied in for the second place, for me. They have reason for doing the things they’re doing. Aemond is losing his mind and Jace seems to be getting more and more desperate to protect his own position down the line. I like where that’s going. And Daemon needs to get his shit together, I still have hope from his character.
The shows biggest problem right now is they keep trying to make a way for Rhaenrya and Alicent to be friends and not want war. (When war is clearly already here) It leads both characters to look naive and dumb. You would think that the deaths of Luke and Jahaerys would infuriate the 2 sides more. But no it just makes them sad
The writers missed the point of war. War is where rich people send poor people to die. This is supposed to be a selfish power grab from aristocratic families that drag the entire country into death and destruction. Making the families more sympathetic is absolutely the wrong decision. Making them hesitant about war completely defeats the purpose of the story.
I remember seeing an interesting interpretation of the Red Sowing: Rhaenyra purposely sacrificed so many bastards not only for power but also to thin the numbers so Jace would have less competition for the throne. Maybe it was accidental writing, but I like this interpretation. I also think Alicent’s plan will backfire hard because when Rhaenyra gets to King’s Landing, Aegon will be gone, she’ll think Alicent set her up, and she’ll imprison her.
This would have made better sense if any of the bastards were remotely wealthy/powerful. They were all desperate. Not one of them could have raised a challenge to jace an actual dragon rider with bannerman who are flocking to his cause. Even as a prop people would rather put their own nobility on the throne
@@Undone545you never played a strategy game
good interpretation, but it could've been hinted somewhere in that episode, otherwise it doesn't make much sense :/
" Rhaenyra purposely sacrificed so many bastards...." This is one of the things about current society that irks me. What seems to be a complete lack of personal accountability. Rhaenyhra got no one killed. She outright told them the chances were slim and they could die. They went of their own accord, their own agency. Even if you are desperate that desperation is YOURS and your actions are still YOUR actions. Just sayin'...
@SJYNYC
Taking advantage of people's desperation for her personal gain to the throne means she got them killed.
She could have come up with any other plan that doesn't involve getting people burned alive.
Remember, she was the one that INVITED and egged them on. She shud be accountable for that. They wouldn't have been in that position if she didn't let them.
If u think what Rhaenyra did was okay then we need to have a long serious discussion.
Having Alicent offering the lives of all her children and grandchildren up to brutal murder so she could run off with Rhaenyra and play besties was possibly the most post modernist cringe I have ever seen. That mixed with them outright spoiling Aemond's death just so they can give Helaena a girl boss moment is why this show is starting to reek of season 8 GOT.
the game of thrones curse continues
it's not that bad
@@thegoldman25He's referring to that horrible ending not the season overhaul
@@thegoldman25Isn't it though? The Game of Thrones curse is a gradual decay. Think of how things started getting worse with season 5, and only got slowly worse from there. HOTD season 2 is very much like GoT season 5 in that way, and thus is emblematic of the Game of Thrones curse.
@@thegoldman25 It is that bad, especially when you look at the fact that D&D and their writing started going downhill when the source material ran out. These folks have source material and they are choosing to...not use it. This is infinitely worse.
HOTD was always Bad. I hoped it would get better in Season 2, but no.
I don't feel like a bad person for having sympathy for Aegon nor having him as my favorite character this season just because of his horrible acts in season 1. He is just a fictional character that felt completely human by having both good sides and bad sides. It just shows that some people who seem harmless have skeletons in their closet. Liking a fictional character with such horrible acts doesn't mean you like people who do those stuff in real life.
A lot of people still see a character like Rhaenys as the voice of reason and wise even after that ridiculous act she did during Aegon's coronation that left a huge casualties of innocent people. So why do some people act as if it's such a bad thing if someone likes or feel sorry for Aegon?
yeah aegon is my favorite character too lol & hotd is the only fandom i’ve seen where people can’t seem to understand that having a villain/bad person as ur favorite character doesn’t mean u justify his evil actions. imagine if star wars came out today & people monitored anakin fans like this 😂
@@vivien8417 And remember those horrible events he did weren't in the books , he was just an unfaithfull husband to Haelena buying whores , but when you point it out , Aegon haters claim it was unbiased recording of the maesters , 😂 like the show runners aren't biased against the Greens ! Every evil deed the greens made in the books are adapted in detail or exaggerated in the show , every evil deed the blacks made in the books was either a mistake , a misunderstanding or completely removed from the show !
@@Savage-nv6wr Even Mushroom didn't explicitly describe Aegon as a rapist. If we are going to believe every Mushroom testimony, then that means Rhaenyra (and Mysaria too) is even a worse person than both Aegon and Daemon combined due to that brothel queen incident.
My favorite character is Cersei Lannister and my favorite House is Lannister. I love complexity....and I love when complexity is well written and owned. The Lannister's owned their shit.
I am Team Black, 100% but I have never disliked Aegon and I have felt a bit protective of him since season one. I don't even think I could hate him if I wanted to. I hate his parents more than I could ever hate him. People dislike him because of the SA allegations....am I the only one questioning his hypersexuality and alcoholism at the age of 14?! As if he isn't just as miserable or possibly even more than Helaena.
Rhaenys is my favorite in the dance and even after interrupting Aegon's coronation, season one Rhaenys is still my favorite. People like to cherry pick. I look at need and motive. I didn't like the scene too much, but I understood the urgency. She's being held captive and forced to pledge to the Green's, she was not going to leave Meleys there alone. Rhaenys is pissed and trying to get to her granddaughters. It wasn't even about Rhaenyra, it was about Baela and Rhaena.
@@Virgohorrorqueen1980 The dragonpit had side exits she can use to escape without the casualties. Because if it didn't, then that means the other dragons should often destroy that part of the structure just so they can fly on a normal day.
The showrunner themselves admitted in one of their interviews that they added it just for the sake of looking cool which makes it even worse.
I still don't like the Mysaria and Rhaeynra kissing scene right after Mysaria tells her about her sexual abuse. The kiss makes no sense.
Yep. That was 100% emma darcy just wanting to make out with her so she suggested adding the kiss. Shes not even playing rhaenyra at this point, she playing herself.
The whole GoT obsession thing is what ruined the show.
They are not following the actual narrative of TDOD the infight between targaryens. Alicent has no needed to be main character because she literally does nothing and does not have any major role during war.
Why should Daemon feel guilty? That goes against everything that he represents he is the rogue prince, he goes wherever he want did whatever he want. Without thinking about the repurcussion.
I just listened to the Fire and Blood audiobook and I’m partway through A Game of Thrones.
imo… Hot D is already falling off. The creators have written themselves into corners that may make season 3 even worse.
Season 1 had some questionable things but it was a borderline masterpiece.
Season 2 reminds me of GoT season 6ish.
The problem is that these TV people are not clever enough to wholly adapt George’s works independently of the source material.
The books have grounding and a realistic sense of consequence that just isn’t there in GoT s7 and 8 and this hot d s2.
In George’s writing, there is NO WAY two warring matriarchs sneak into each other’s camps and walk out to tell the tales. Especially after Luke and Jae’s deaths.
Another thing that bugged me (from s1) is Rhaenys not knowing Laenor’s body. Mothers know their kids. You’re telling me she can’t even identify his feet???
Silly little things like that break the rules of the ASOIAF universe and break immersion.
Yes, it’s a fantasy epic about Dragons, zombies, and magic. But you can’t break your universe’s rules.
The aforementioned Rhaenys was setup as a super observant, wisdom character. But as soon as the writers wanted to get rid of Laenor, they turned her into Mrs Magoo.
The character inconsistency is bs and part of why the show will ultimately disappoint.
It’s actually funny how this feminist overkill is producing unrealistic women.
interesting perspective
As a non-book reader, I was intrigued by the idea that Rhaenyra would be turned on by Mysaria's support of her, but people better versed in Fire and Blood have rightly explained that it makes no sense both for the narrative (it leads to nothing and is as if it never happened) and in the context of the scene itself, in which Mysaria is recounting traumatic sexual assault. I understand the desire to defend it, but on its face, it just doesn't work. If anything, I'm surprised it isn't being called out as shallow queerbaiting.
The complete flanderization and character assassination of Aegon and the whitewashing of Rhaenyra and removal of all her more unhinged behavior in the books is straight up obnoxious at this point. In the books Aegon doesn't run away from the throne, he flat-out tells Criston Cole and his mother Alicent that "Rhaenyra is the rightful queen." And it's only after Criston convinces him that Rhaenyra will kill him and his sister and brother if she takes the throne, pointing out Vaemond being *fed to Rhaenyra's dragon* as proof of her unhinged behavior that Aegon finally relents.
For fuck sake *they removed Daeron as a character from the show entirely* because they *knew* that everyone and their mother would like the noble, humble, and compassionate Daeron.
They *desperately* want the viewer to hate the Greens. *Desperately.* Even GRRM who literally is a self-admitted Daemon/Black fanboy said he was irritated by Blood and Cheese's changes.
I’m starting to think Alicent was written for S2 to be a *comedic* character if you don’t watch HOT D as a serious drama. Some of the shit she’s doing here is hilarious if you think about it. Getting eaten out. Taking trips to a forest to go swimming while a war is going on. Alicent in S2 can be memes for ages like Bully Maguire.
Play HOT D silently and Alicent might be the most hilarious character on here. Rhaenyra will get eaten and Alicent will be like: Done that, girl. It’s awesome! Yeah, the most useless and stupidest character in the show who accidentally started a war might just be my new favorite character. Her Funko toys at a discount of $5.55 are flying off the shelves!
This chick isn’t aware a war is going on around her. She’s tone deaf. Her grandson died, she forgets about him in the next episode. She insults Aegon which hurts his pride, then 4 episodes later, she’s willing to sell him out and Aemond. I love you, Alicent. Your kids don’t.
Olivia Cooke is a great actress, but man, they made her character as dumb as rocks. No wonder we see photos of Matt Smith and Olivia Cooke hanging out a lot. It was paid vacation for them. Daemon and Alicent do absolutely nothing in it. Daemon got to be Mickey Mouse in Castle of Illusions. Alicent got laid and took baths. Easy payday for Matt and Olivia.
We will never escape the White Walkers shit. In A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, the White Walkers will be mentioned again. Daemon’s weirwood vision was only the beginning of this shit. Every series set in Westeros will mention the White Walkers.
HBO might as well give us a series about Old Valyria. It’s the only way to escape the Night King nonsense, the most overused plot device for these Westeros shows. These characters won’t even live long enough to see Arya kill the Night King. Why should they be concerned about White Walkers like a century or two earlier?
Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming. Please make it stop!
@@LordFleaBottom A Valyria series will probably be in the 2030s when CGI is easier/cheaper.
The production team ran out money with Rook’s Rest, Red Sowing, and that Silverwing-Vhagar chase scene alone.
A well-done Valyria series would (and probably should) cost ten times as much right now.
Lastly, I wouldn’t be surprised if the magic of Valyria’s dragons is tied to the Old gods of the Children.
Don’t forget, the Night King was made with a Dragon glass dagger, at least in the show. And Valyrian steel kills walkers.
"What would you have me do?!"
Is the next
"u r meh kween!"
As another on the internet lovingly put it once.
They never explained why/how there wasnt a single kings guard around when the child was beheaded. Then the opening of the very next episode showed literally countless kings guards running around and wreaking havoc. Like wtf 😒
The guards were with Aegon drunk and parting the guys who were “his friends” and they were the others not drinking keeping watch and then Cole was screwing Alicent how is that hard to understand besides the Greens were really worried about attack from the dragons and not a more nefarious silent strike
@@kyloren1014 That's some excellent head cannon, and I filled the gaps very similarly myself, but that's exactly my point. The show didn't even try to actually directly address it directly. Cole is not the only kings guard assigned to the royal chambers.
@@afordiam yes we saw the guards with Aegon in the throne room and Ser Erik or the other one even told Coke he was with king and we don’t need to be spoon fed every detail
@@kyloren1014 the major issue persists here. There were maybe 15-20 kings guard in the throne room with aegon, including his ~3 kings guard friends, 3-5 civilian friends, and Cole with Alisent.
The opening scene of the next episode showed at least 50 - 60 kings guard running around wreaking havoc. No castle just dismisses 75% of the security force at night, when surprise attacks are statistically most likely.
We DO need to be spoon-fed. That is the point of visual media like movies, etc. You use your imagination when reading. The point of visual media is not to just leave everything to the audiences imagination. That's called lazy writing. You SHOW them a beautiful, well planned story as it unfolds. You use facial expression, tone of voice, music, etc, to fill in gaps so you don't just have characters lazily talking to the audience about what is happening.
@@afordiamthis is exactly how we ended up in the boat we’re in with movies. The makers are having to compensate for people that can’t put together context on their own and it’s dumbing down scenes taking away from the rest of the story.
Rhaenyra should have been the one pushing Rhaenys and Daemon to kill Vhagar and Aemond, Daemon being more cunning than that pushes back on her orders and goes"a son for a son", while Rhaenys becomes a voice of reason for Rhaenyra's outbursts.
It makes no sense that Rhaenyra never activelly makes a move against Aemond and that Daemon is somehow now afraid of the kid 🤦♂️
Mysaria and Rhaynera kiss was the stupidest and worst scene for the whole show so far, random, one off, unneeded and kind of creepy scene
Did we watch the same show? Rhaenyra actively tries to do NOTHING and disregards her counselors because "men bad". If you wont listen to your council, why have one in the first place. Eveything that went wrong post Luke death is all on Rhaenyra's hand, she actively does nothing, and when her council tells her to do something, she does nothing again.
Sara Hess it’s all Sara Hess fault. You can tell she’s not being told No. That’s on Condal as well. I say Hess because when she spoke out in season 1 hating on daemon u saw the results of her doubling down this season. The dragon scene in s1 e9 was hers.
Men = Bloodthirsty & Bad
Women = Peace & Rainbows
Aegon is certainly not portrayed as bloodthirsty and bad. Some characters talk about him that way, sure. What of it?
Ser Criston? Otto Hightower? Viserys? Jace is dope, if underdeveloped in the last half of the season. I can’t think of a truly bloodthirsty or cruel “main” male character other than prince regent and king consort, as framed by the show.
I don’t think Alicent is “peace and rainbows.” Rhaenyra kinda is (her passivity and peacefulness have lead to negative consequences, at least), Rhaena definitely was and it was annoying.
@@willr3891 hanging the rat catchers? Sending assassins,His direct statement that it’s time for war?
The men around rhaenyra ARE being portrayed as bloodthirsty and bad rhaenys even says so.
Rhaenyra literally risks her life to talk to her former besties in what is the episode that broke me.
The writers intent is so obvious but unfortunately has the side effect of making the female characters seem emotional and unfit to rule
@@willr3891alicent literally gave up her ‘boys’ same ones she almost killed rhaenyra for in s1. Then asked rhaenyra to run away with her 😂 I mean even thinking about it is kinda upsetting.
Dunno what Hess and Condal are smoking.
This show and HBO writers do not know how to write women
It was directed by a woman
@@MufasanoodlesFfds123so?
My main issue with the show is the destruction of the two main characters of the wars : Rhaenyra and Alicent. They tried so hard to not show them under a bad light, that they just become caricatures of their characters, and don't have any interesting traits, whereas their books counterparts are way more driven and realistic : they're two power-hungry women who want control over the Iron Throne, wich makes them have way more agency than they have in the show (In the books, men actually respect Alicent advices and place in the Small Council because she is actually useful). They also hate each other, and Alicent is actually scared Rhaenyra is going to kill her and her children in the books, another reason to take power away from her. The rivalry between Otto and Daemon is something they also missed, since it's another huge reason why the Greens don't want Rhaenyra on the throne : they're scared Daemon is going to be a new Maegor the Cruel. So all those reasons would've made the show more complex, if done right. But they didn't understand that the Dance was a story about how a family can destroy its power and itself, not a girlboss feminist show about why men are bad and take power away from women.
The show also lacks a lot of subplots that made GOT interesting : the side storylines, the dynamics between characters... GOT wasn't always about the War of the five kings, it was more than that, it was about Tyrion and Cersei hatred for each other, it was about Jaime and Cersei love, Sansa reconnecting with her nothern roots, Daenerys and what justice is, if ruling if a right or duty, Jon and honor, Arya and a tale about revenge and what trauma does to a little girl, whereas in HOTD it feels like the characters have no other issues than the Dance. I expected more from Jace and Baela relationships, discussions between Otto and Larys about what is power and ruling, I wanted to see a real deep storyline about Haeleana and the loss of her son, and what grief does to her.
The show's also too clean in terms of cinematography. Why the early seasons of GOT felt so realistic was because the scenery, the costumes, the way it was filmed was not too perfect or symetrical or clean. In HOTD they try so hard (just like the latest seasons of GOT) for the show to be eye-pleasing, unfortunately it lacks essence and authenticity.
Those writers miss the mark on everything they touch. They think they're smarter than the original creator and change important part of the story, just to realize later they don't know how to advance because they didn't think it through (Rhaenys killing hundreds of citizens in season 1 when she escapes KL, the whole war being a misunderstanding because they don't want to show Alicent being ambitious...).
We're watching the marvel-ization of the GOT universe and it just pains me because so much love was put on this masterpiece. I'm done with modern shows tbh.
There are other things I think the show did bad (lack of humor for example) and good (merging Nettles and Rhaena) but i'm gonna end it here.
Precisely!!! I always thought from the beginning the Show somehow felt „sterile“ but couldn‘t put it into words. You nailed it. Currently watching Episode 4 if Season 2 and it Looks wayyy too clean!!! Two dragons Are currently fighting and it simply Looks WORSE than in GOT, how can that be?!!
All the characters have NO DEPTH at all. There is no Tyrion with sass, no Cersei who you could hate from the beginning, no Joffrey and Ramsey to hate, no plotting Varys and Littlefinger.
I prefer watching reactions to GOT instead of shitty HOTD.
Why did they merge Nettles and Rhaena? I thought it was a missed opportunity
Aemond is the coolest character in the Game of Thrones universe, and they mishandled him. Too the show does stray from the books; Aemond doesn’t hurt Aegon in the book, their sister the queen is assassinated in the book not her son, and Rhanyra was the one who sent the killer- she didn’t show remorse either. They make her look like a much better person in the show
They wanted us to hate aegon thats why they made him cruel and invented stuff like the childrens in the fighting pits and the violence against women,only because they wanted us to take the side of rhaenyra from the start. But take these two parts away from the show and aegon its pretty much the best character even though he didn't had a lot of screentime compare to the others
Season 1 Alicent: YOU ARE THE CHALLENGE AEGON! 🤬
Season 2 Alicent: lol nvm 🥲
I think HOT D is doomed from the start. If they followed what GRRM wrote, non-book readers and casuals will also get pissed on what the writers did to Rhaenyra thinking it’s no different than Dany. People saying Rhaenyra is their Queen only to realize she isn’t the Queen they thought they knew.
The Dance only lasts two years. I honestly thought it could’ve been finished in 30 episodes in 3 seasons of 10 episodes each. S1 could’ve been told in 5 episodes. Then once we get to the Aegon/Rhaenyra scene which might be the only time they ever interact, the show ends. You can’t continue the show after the main characters are gone.
We’re already 18 episodes into this series and it just feels like Rhaenyra and Alicent are forgetting what’s happening to their children or grandchildren and they’re playing around. It’s not war. It’s Capture the Flag. How could Rhaenyra meet Alicent an episode later after there was an assassination attempt on her life? And not once did she even mention it.
One of the aspects I love about Game of Thrones was how much I enjoyed several characters. I remember ranking about 50 of my favorite characters from both GOT and HOT D combined and 80% came from GOT. And about 85% from my top 20 which means I like about 17 GOT characters out of the first 20.
What made GOT shine were the side characters like Bronn, Tormund, and Davos. Bronn wasn’t even in the books and Jerome Flynn portrays him like Errol Flynn in Robin Hood if he turned into a mercenary who curses a lot. S1-S4 Tyrion is probably more likable than any character in HOT D and that includes Daemon.
I honestly don’t know what the writers will do to Daemon because it almost feels like they want us to hate their version of him when he’s really the only charismatic character in the series. Watch us end up hating every single character in the show and realizing this was a big waste of time watching 4 seasons of drivel in 8 years!
Pretty much every major character dies and even someone you might feel is morally good like Helaena or Simon Strong won’t have a happy ending. If they do go by the book, it’s going to upset people because many are already attached to Rhaenyra like they were to Daenerys. If they don’t go by the book, people will still get upset thinking this is some silly Wattpad fanfic by Condom/Mess.
One of the writers already feels like she’s HOT D’s version of Leslye Headland who’s really an activist pretending to be a writer and GRRM fangirl trying to draw W scenes for her LGBT community. Then we got Warner Bros. in debt and a lot of these battles won’t come cheap. Imagine it takes maybe 1.5 years to complete Avengers: Doomsday. But that’s only 2.5-3 hours.
HOT D has 8 hours of content if it’s 8 episodes. That’s painfully long to film a season and they’re not filming it until next year. I say real filming for a big budget movie like Doomsday would be 2-3 months. But it took HOT D S2 from April to Sept of last year. That’s 5 months but you saw what we got. About 4 hours of nothingburgers. Now imagine when we get battle after battle?
I think this show will end up being another disaster where we pretty much hate every character or feel indifferent except for maybe Daemon although I won’t be surprised if we all ended up hating him too, and it was 8 years of wasting time waiting to cover 4 seasons for an overrated part of Targaryen history where we hardly saw a war or dragons fighting each other.
I’m already pissed with the White Walker callback in Daemon’s weirwood vision because it’s a bad reminder of how GOT S8 ended and how a little Stark girl with only 2 years of training will save them from the big, bad Night King. That was 8 years of hyping up the White Walkers and they got killed off by a little Stark girl who kept getting beaten up by the Waif only 2 seasons prior. Daemon saying winter is coming in High Valyrian was cringey af.
Let the two dueling queens focus on the war at hand. Who gives a fuck about a threat that will happen 200 years later? And even if the current characters in HOT D believe Daenerys is The Prince Who Was Promised or even Jon, they’re going to have shitty endings anyway! Dany is going to die after helping Winterfell with her dragons. Jon gets a slap on the wrist and gets his first job back but without any more White Walker threats. Going back to GOT callbacks is a waste of time because how badly it ended.
Two dueling queens having civil meetings and forgetting that one of their kins just died and then have sex with a Kingsguard or make out with her husbuncle’s former lover. I hardly saw Alicent grieve. One of the queens forgot she could’ve been killed an episode earlier but never mentions it to the other. Then you take GRRM’s favorite Targ and turn him into a soy boy and giving him worthless GOT callbacks that only left a sour taste in our mouths thanks to S8.
I have lost faith in HBO. They will hype up a certain aspect of the story like “winter is coming” for years only to undeliver once again by the time it’s over.
Rhaenyra starts acting like a bitch. She’s killed. THE END.
Viewers by 2028: WTF was that? Did I just rewatch what happened to Dany all over again? Man, fuck this show.
Daemon will be the equivalent to Qimir / The Stranger / Smilo Ren in The Acolyte where he’s the only character worth it to watch and literally carries the show. Ok, maybe Aemond is cool to watch too. They’re the Final Fantasy characters, right? Guys will cosplay as them and buy merch of them. Their Battle Above the Gods Eye would be equivalent to Battle of Mustafar that I first heard about in the late 90s only to be so psyched to finally see it by Revenge of the Sith. But who knows if HBO screws up that scene?
Who gives a damn what happens 200 years later? Just focus on the war at hand.
Well said about the side characters making the plot and the story. Cregan Stark, Jeyne Arryn, Nettles, and Daeron were the most anticipated characters of season 2 and look what happened. We got four minutes of Cregan, with his scene being absolutely worthless. 5 minutes of Jeyne, no Nettles and no Daeron. Like, what's the point if you aren't going to follow their stories? Their stories are essential to the Dance, I mean Cregan's whole purpose of sending the Wolves and coming South himself was because of his oath to JACE. But we didn't get to see any of that. And Jace's death is gonna pretty pointless too. He was greatly mourned by his faction and now it's gonna be like "Oh no...well, anyway."
“Condom/Mess” is a great addition to game of thrones’s nicknames universe, only below “Dumb&Dumber”
@@LordFleaBottom bro, Bronn is in the books
Condom/mess😅
I think theyre falling into the white feminism trap. Where just because youre oppressed by men, doesnt mean you arent also hurting others by trying to climb this hierachy.
I think that was a good angle for season one, but now that both these women have basically reached the pinnacle of what power looks like for women in this society, its a good time to step back and look at all the bodies they had to step on to get there, and all the current harm theyre causing by perpetuating this system
I noticed about half way through that this show was losing its steam, the episode when the random basterd son of the sea snake got a dragon for no reason it just happened with no foreshadowing or build up and I was like ok nothing matters
Yeah that was odd
what do you mean no buildup? seasmoke was circling in the air above him episodes before... were you also surprised when hugh and ulf got dragons i thought it was all very on the nose tbh
@@JigglyRose I can’t remeber their names but at least the one guy with the sick daughter had some buildup and demonstrated bravery in the face of the dragon, the other guy was disrespectful had no honorable things about him and stumbled up on the dragon like a coward stepped on an egg and got a dragon, why? It feels like nothing matters, I would believe that the dragons can sense courage and honor and pick their rider based off some sense they have, but this guy walks up to it like a bumbling cowardly fool and gets a Dragon?
@@Japangf2345oh i agree its inconsistent that darklyn died because he was scared but then addam seemed scared too and seasmoke didnt seem to mind so it was odd ...in the books addam gets to claim seasmoke because of bravery he saved alyn the other brother instead who gets burned but i guess they thought it would be repetitive cuz hugh saves the women in the show idk tbh
Rhaenyra and Alicent kinda forgot that, in agreeing to legitimize Rhaenyra's rule, Alicent is actually signing the death warrants for both Helaena and Jaehaera as well, since thanks to Rhaenyra's taking the throne in her own name, other royal Targaryen women are now also eligible for the throne suo jure and therefore as much a threat to Rhaenyra's claim as Aegon, Aemond and Daeron. But nahhhhh let's not mention this because Women Good, Men Bad.
This felt like S5 of game of thrones.
Like yea it’s good, but y’all just making shit up now 😂
i think it's a little better than GoT S5
Pretty much 😂
I just wanna say about 2:30 into this that Rhaenyra definitely wanted to be queen and there’s no evidence saying otherwise.
4:23 the women arent trying to "avoid" war. Rhaenera is absolutely power hungry. She wants the throne, has killed countless peasants trying to find a rider, and could just bend the knee to avoid all of this. Alisant pretends she wants to avoid war but could have eneded it when Rhanera snuck into the church to meet with her. Just take her captive
She isn't power hungry. They usurped her throne. You don't bend the knee to someone who steals what is yours.
I hope shit hits the fan when Rhaenyra takes Kingslanding and Aegon is gone , I really hope Rhaynera thinks Alicent lied and betrayed her 🙏
that could be interesting
That, ORRRRR…. it turning out that Alicent actually did betray her and was in on the escape of Aegon with Larys. Maybe they show Haelena being sent away, too. Idk. Could work.
@@aayaathussain8595 That would be f***ing awesome !!
A flawed season, but still enjoyable as hell and better than most other shows out there. Def better than GOT S8. Everyone loves to point out the bad stuff, but there were a lot of great things about the season, too.
I totally agree, anyone who says this is worse than GOT S7 or S8 is insane imo
@@thegoldman25I recently rewatched GoT and it was so sad because early seasons were SO FREAKING GOOD 😢
One glance at Rings of Power is all the incentive I need to get on my knees in front of Sarah Hess XD
@@thegoldman25It isn't worse at all but on the same level... Not worse but not better.
Same plotholes and character assassinations here.
@@thegoldman25plus the dialogue was more compelling in HOTD2. 👍
The writers are women with no children or hate being mothers. There is no mother who would act like Alicent and Rhaenyra
Ryan Condal was the lead writer, a man
@@thegoldman25 yes.but he itself said episode 8 was written by sara hess his co writer. but i am very sorry to mention her personal life she married a girl adopting a son as their child. so i think she has no idea about motherhood. i am a girl and mother of two children it makes no sense for me(that alicent rhaenyra meeting). Alicent asked Rhaenyra to COME WITH ME????? What non sense is that!!!! House of the dragon is a not Targaryen civil war anymore, its two girls love failure divorce drama from here on.
@@gopalkrishnan3196 I mean, that's a bit presumptuous don't you think? The idea that you need physical experience does a discredit to all the childless writers who are still capable of writing compelling family drama through empathy, reason and a bit of imagination.
I'm not ultimately disagreeing with you - the Alicent Rhaenyra plot line feels like it comes awfully close to convenient, poorly thought out fan fiction, but the writer's family situation shouldn't have a bearing on their ability to imagine. Rather, this writer in particular just didn't infuse the story with good ideas. Given the vague source material, they could've gone ANYWHERE, but where they ultimately chose wasn't particularly satisfying.
(And they kept patting Rhaenys on the back for her morality when she stomped plenty of King's Landing folks at the inauguration. Felt like they were playing favourites a little too blatantly, i think.)
@@gopalkrishnan3196 so she has an adopted son .... she is a mother. Same as you. Grow up and get off your high horse.
@@runawaywolf2570I
As a son of a mother on I know my own mother would not act like these women. She always fought for me.
It's clear that yes, a lesbian literally cannot understand these characters - the writing is proving that
House of the Dragon season 2 commits the greatest sin of any form of entertainment. It is boring
We didn’t need Rhaenyra and Alicent reunion when they could of had they conversation in season 3. Didn’t need Sara Huess hate for Daemon character to ruin him.
I've never seen a character butchered like Alicent, I loved her in the books and season one, but after this season I can't stand her, the writers tried to make her sympathetic but failed miserably, we wanted a badass matriarch like cersei, but they're trying so hard to prevent the women from being bad guys which makes them uninteresting, indecisive and fickle, which just reinforces why Rhaenyra should not be Queen
You should be on the writing team.
I will say, I disagree with Aegon not being portrayed as "cruel" in S2. He executed several innocent men *and* had them hung on display.
Daemon is basically not fighting for Rhaenyra, he is fighting for the prophecy, he pledged loyalty for it
And not because of the another fact that she is the mother of his children.
I agree with you on Aegon. If they didn’t make him such an irredeemable bastard in S1, his arc in S2 would be a lot more palatable
It was a flawed season but i enjoyed it and i hope they can bounce back on track
I'm optimistic they can, a lot of stuff should be happening!
They need to cut with the "girl power but I'm also a saint" nonsense and let women be actual characters , not tools for fan fiction 🙄🙄
As a network unless your going under financially. You should never cut corners with your flagship show. Reducing the season and cutting the budget really dragged this season down. As a paying viewer, I felt let down this season.
Daemon doesn't have an arc. He just has parts of himself deleted by a vision.
What mother gives up a son to be murderd
As someone who's read the books all I can say is they have totally messed up the timeline.
If you read the book you know who rules at the end, and how old this person currently is in the show. The pacing is atrocious, the characters have been made unrelatable and the showrunners haven't really given us a reason to care for most of them.
My gf, who cries at everything, hasn't cried over a single death in this show. She stopped watching after blood and cheese murdered Aegons son, because in the show it was handled so poorly.
Yeah this doesn't have the S1 emotionally evocative moments, you cry at Aemma's death, the last supper with Viserys and his death...
I think only the first episode of S2 actually moved me, so kudos to Alan Taylor and Ryan Condal for that. And I was just "in shock" when B&C happened, which is the point. But I feel like after episode 3, the writing quality takes a major dive...
In a show well known for its writing, and is adapted from the work of a writer.
Writers' strike, Max doing away with 2 whole episodes, Miguel Sapochnik not being on the project have really affected the quality of the show.
And yes, I did not like some creative decisions, but they're the least of my concerns when looking at the potential looming catastrophe ahead where Zaslaf will want to "save" more money 😑
@@samf.s.7731 She didn't cry at Aemmas death either, we didn't really know her and casual fans probably can't pick her out of a character line up.
They haven't established any of the characters in this world. The world building and character development has been atrocious.
I have to Force myself to finish season 2 because I already paid for it.
I have no attachment to ANY of the characters, they simply have no depth at all. Season 1 wasn’t better.
I rather Watch reactions to GOT than this Shit.
The writer's strike had ZERO effect on the show since they didn't film in the US. I don't remember where they filmed but they have their own rights and regulations over there.
interesting
Yes and no. Initial scripts were finished, but no on-set rewrites could be made, therefore changing something that didn't work or coming up with new ideas wasn't possible.
@@facuuaf true, I read that a lot of the writers were American, so it did have some effect, regardless of where it was filmed.
@@bluegypsy71 Absolutely, just not as much of an effect as some people are trying to say.
and cutting it from 10 episodes to 8 probably played a factor
Spoiler alert but Rhaneyra doesn’t do much else in the war from here, at least in the books. Everyone else does the fighting for her so I’m interested to see how the show handles that. Her inactivity is actually on par with the book. In fact, by the end of the war she’s to overweight and out of shape to even ride her dragon; I’m not kidding. She also ends up being a horrible, corrupt queen who everyone hates.
10 episodes would’ve done this season so much justice
Agreed
I definitely needed 10 episodes, that cut to 8 is what ruined season 2
10 episodes will not wash the writing flaws of this season.
Probably not. The length of the season won’t wipe away bad writing.
@@khfan4life365thought it wouldn’t have saved the season it would have made most of the watchers like it a lot more. What this season was missing was spectacle( rooks rest isn’t enough). Though I prefer good writing over spectacle most people rather something cool to look at
This season felt like it was in autopilot, just checking the boxes to get from point A to point B. There was no gravitas in the story, no stakes.
Blood and Cheese felt like an afterthought, the Battle of Rooks Rest lacked energy, Harrenhal scenes repeated over and over again, Rhaenyra and Alicent met not only once but TWICE, and what for?…
Season 1 was great, season 2 was shit
Season 1 already was Shit.
@@PattisKarriereKarten LOL Yeah, I had to scoff at him for saying Season 1 was "masterclass." That's really overpraising it. There were good parts, mediocre parts, bad parts. There's way too much hyperbole when it comes to praising a lot of modern shows. Hell, I really like Severance but I'm not ready to call it a masterpiece (like so many others are already claiming) until I see how Season 2 goes and even then I might need another season.
this season was pointless just standing there like 80 percent of the episode i have no idea how you people can justify that
What they did to allicents character kinda ruined the show for me. I thought I was alone in thinking the writing being bad compared to s1, but I guess not
I'm so sick of that particular flavor of misogyny where a fictional powerful woman is instead portrayed as incapable of wrongdoing and placed upon a pedestal and is just a victim of the men around her. They have taken one of the most powerful women in Westeros history, loved and hated by many, and reduced her to straight up "a victim of dumb men that she can't control."
*Rhaenyra in the books feeds people to her dragon IN PUBLIC before Viserys even fucking dies bro, what are these writers huffing besides pure copium?*
They have completely removed her agency and accountability as a character. All of her actions later in the dance will make absolutely no fucking sense and she will be viewed as Dany 2.0.
If they just said, "hey guys, the writers strike f'ed us and the schedule, but we want to give you some episodes so youre not waiting even longer," I think fans would have accepted it with open arms. Rather, they just decided to surprise us all with buildup and no payoff.
Aegon isn’t cruel?? Well……. He did enjoy orphan kids out in a ring to fight each other. That’s pretty sick. Not to mention his disregard for girls who don’t want to engage in sexual acts with him.
He is surely a victim too. But he can be a victim and cruel douchebag at the same time. He does have feelings, he is not as psycho as Joffrey or Ramsey tho
I miss Milly Alcock Rhaenyra. She truly did not give a fuck
Idk how you didn’t get vibes that daemond wanted the throne, he has a scene where he remarks about him being in the line of succession once again after visarris’s wife and son died in childbirth causing visarris to banish him back to the river lands, it was even one of his visions almost beat for beat remake of that scene except visarris comes across as more sad in it instead of his furry from the first season, also where was it foreshadowed that alicent just wants to sacrifice her sons just so she can go live peacefully in season one, it wasn’t in the slightest, if anything she’s a huge cause for all this conflict so I can’t see it as anything other than a character assassination
The whole rise of Rhaenyra seems too gifted to me.. what has she ever suffered, what did she ever have to do to become Queen, how did she earn her right to be Queen ?
No, she was the 'chosen' one, the position of queen 'fell' into her lap, she has not gone through a painful story arc to become skilled in any way (like we clearly saw with Daenarys) to become a leader, she has not managed to align any houses to her cause or raise an army in her name (Daemon did that). Her only skill appears to be looking angry at the horizon.
Daemon's character was slaughtered this season 02, cowtowing to everyone he meets and/or opposes him.. going to the Riverlands and being turned the back on by a faction that refused to follow his cause.. with that humiliating shot of him and his dragon behind the faction lord riding away.. it was pityful.
Question remains... what has Rhaenyra ever achieved to become the queen ? .. and the answer is a shocking nothing. All she did was marry and cheat on her husband...
I refused to read the book after season 1,it was so great I wanted to experience it for the first time as the episodes came out.
I started reading the book after season 2, fuck it I'm not waiting 2-3 years for another disastrous season.
I really like your Alicent and Aegon rewrites. What bothered me about the conversation between Rhaenyra and Alicent was that it was clear that Rhaenyra wants to kill both Aegon and Aemond. So "a son for a son" is a lie! Alicent already lost her grandson and would also lose two sons. It bothered me that Alicent didn't express any of this to Rhaenyra. Alicent loving Aegon and treating him like the golden child his whole life would help make the entire story make more sense to me. It would explain Aemond's hatred of Aegon and his mommy issues.
It's pretty simple. It's called majorally female writers and directors. That equals boring confusing crap. Is the writers strike over yet?!?!? Lol😂
This reminds me of Anna Taylor Joy interview about women's rage portrayed in films. Women get mad snd rage too, women have aspirations and pursue power also.
the prophecy BEING THE WHOLE REASON OF THE DANCE IS FUCKING DUMB is exactly what they did with the Hobbit movies, oh is a precuel of LOTR so we need fanservice and references . . . why emm try to be his own story about POWER MOTHERS AND PLANS nahhhh better make Alicent read the prophecy wrong, and Rhaenyra the good girl and Daemon another who knows the song of GOT season 8 . . .
I enjoyed this video man, great analysis! Surprised you didn't speak about Criston Cole though, his arc was probably the most enjoyable for me, seeing a man who wants to do good but always screw up hide under a sense of righteousness, to finally realize and admit he was wrong.
yeah i probably could've talked about Criston
Unfortunately they screwed up the two main characters which had a negative impact on the rest of the season. The actions of Rhaenera and Alicent this season are laughably dumb and not believable to what the characters in the book or even season 1 would have done. Luckily the action and screenplay was still amazing but the writing of the main characters was so bad this season.
Ever notice they only ever use the term greens in the show but never use the term blacks. Wonder why 😂
My GoT/HotD Season Rankings:
1. GoT S4
2. GoT S1
3. HotD S1
4. GoT S2
5. GoT S3
6. GoT S6
7. HotD S2
8. GoT S5
9. GoT S7
10. GoT S8
Ooooh now we need it by episode! ;)
Hardhome is still one of my favorite episodes of tv ever.
I did rank all the episodes of Game of Thrones, did you see that video? It's 80 minutes long (:
@@thegoldman25 OMG YUSSSSSSS I am in. Ty!!!!
1) GoT 4
2) GoT 3
3) HotD 1
4) GoT 1
5) GoT 6
6) GoT 5
7) GoT 7
8) GoT 2
9) HotD 2
10) GoT 8
Woah nowww S1 over S2 and S3? I say you are brave.
2:22 - She never wanted to be a queen? You already lost me.
Did you not watch the entirety of series 1 and 2 where most of her actions were because she WANTED to be queen?
You do get that all she needed to do if she didn't want it was to concede to Aegon's ascension and no blood would've been spilled, right?
Just because they keep saying she didn't want it in series 2, doesn't mean it's true.
Please rewatch the first episode of the series
The actual reason why it was bad:
- HBO went Girl Boss but in truth Alicent and Rhynera dont do much of anything in the books at this point
- HBO want Ryhnera to be a white night, when in the books she was a drunk, gained weight , jealous of nettles, mean and some what of a tyrant/spoiled brat . GRRM makes all of his characters grey.
- made up plot points lead to bad writing in the books Alicent never mistakenly takes Viserys word for the iron throne, now they have pigeon hold themselves into this plot, when it was just lords seeing a woman in a place of power it could change thier poisiton
I'm autistic and I think Helaena's portrayal works quite well. I oftentimes feel things so much that I end up not being able to feel them at all because my body shuts down the emotion as to not be overwhelmed
No... The kiss scene makes no sense.
Everybody was surprised by that. Meaning there was no build up.
It was more of a HESS
Here's a thought - why don't the showrunners copy the books and run with that. A game of thrones did exactly that and it was an amazing series (1-4)
That’s incorrect. This show wasn’t affected by the writers strike since it’s in London
are you sure?
It’s crazy to me how UA-camrs can write a better season to a drama than paid experienced writers can
Aegon is the best character of the series by far!
It wasn't a complete mess, it just wanted to draw out this setup to get 4 seasons.