Reacting to: The Great Push M+ Tournament
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2024
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/ limit_maximum
Hey guys, Blizzard recently announced their new dungeon based tournament, called The Great Push, so I decided to give my thoughts on it as I have previously competed in the MDI.
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I’ll give blizzard credit for at least trying out something new.
But they did this kind of idea back in Legion. Just recycled it
PUSHING KEYS!!1!1 BIG PUMPERS ONLY 5K RIO MIN NO SHITTERS
I read this this Preach's voice lol
I read this in LFG
Also will leave after 1 botched pull, or wait until last boss and be 30s slow.
Appreciate your take on it Max
“The great push” great name
Teams with the same comps, the same pulls, and the same strats and if one team messes anything up in the 30 minute run you know its over. zzzzzz
Blizzard should just do what DOTA 2 does with mini tourneys baked right into the games UI. Like a weekend event people with the best time go in, etc.
I honestly think Blizzard may be bleeding the talent or perhaps manpower to do things like this. They've always been slow to implement things, but nowadays it almost seems like an impossibility.
I do agree with you, though.
The Great Push. Sounds like what happens when you eat too much cheese.
lmao dude
definitely don't have to push when I eat cheese
He says "you run the same 3 dungeons 16 hours a day to qualify, then you get 2 days off...then you play all day/everyday for 2 weeks"
This sounds like my life...
it would be cool if there was a tournement where teams play dont know 3-5 maps and can only play a class they didnt play in the dungeon before, for example first map dh tank -> 2nd you cant tank with dh-> 3rd dh and the 2nd class disabled.. or in the 3rd dh is available ... just more class/setup difference would be so cool to see
This is actually a great idea..
the drama you created will probably attract more attention than any prize pool.
'Drama' KEKW
Srs tho i hardly understand why that blew up as much as it did, all he was really saying is that professional orgs (companies built around playing e-sports) have more potential and opportunity to perfect their skills for these tourneys without it hindering their 'real' life because for them playing the game is their income. But everyone wanted to hear that as "Only the tops guilds have the ability to win" when yeah really he was just saying they have a 1000% Rested XP boost when it comes to tourneys.
@@rivertam711 personally I think it's great when shit gets stirred up around the esport I love. That's how League of Legends and Starcraft II got its initial mass appeal, after all. So my comment isn't exactly negative.
@@rivertam711 The way how hey said that was the difference and made the people upsed. It sounded he isn't even appreciating the groups which pushed very high, to sum it up he said it in a way that it sounded like it is a complete joke to push that high and is not hard.
I don't think that was ever his intention but yeah that's how he sounded saying those things which is why ppl got upset about that.
This tournament will also be harder than the MDI you're not racing what are arguably low keys of +18. So now you have to practice all the dungeons on higher keys because you don't know what dungeon or affixes you will be pushing till the day of the tournament. Which can affect your comp choices talents/covenants/leggos etc. MDI is basically racing where The Great Push is like trying to reach a world record. Is it going to be just pushing 1 dungeon and 1 set of affixes? Cause that's gonna get dull real quick.
I think honestly the prize pool could be a bit bigger, compared to how many cups there are in the awc and how bracket payments work. m+ only gets the mdi and this event, and comparing it to other esports its close to nothing, dota 2 held two tournaments in a row, and both tournaments had a prize pool of the north side of 30 million.
because those tournaments are HOD, m+ was fun first time in legion, boring to watch now. wow generally is a boring game to watch hence why the esports side will never prosper.
I do love wathcing MDI, but after the first few rounds, it did get very old quickly.
Love MDI, I think the first weekend of like 8 of the 24 teams is fun. The next two weeks are okay but repetitive for sure. But when down to the final 8 it's great b/c it is the highest level. Maybe they skip pulling 24 teams and just start with 8 teams off the bat and make it one weekend.
You make fantastic content.
Thank god it can be streamed on twitch, im a youtube frog from like 2007 and been uploading (not this channel) since like 2009 and while i love YT for the 'On deman' pre-recorded stuff it honestly SUCKS at live interaction compared to twitch.
Now if we can See AWC and MDI move over that would be cool and I honestly think it would help numbers just because people who want 'live' content are already on Twitch, I think the only UA-camr that does awesome live streams on here is JHSPedals but thats more to do with their production value being really high imo.
Can you make a complete video on who is better for PI on pull / mid fight / execute phase? and Why etc.
Appreciate your content max its great!
Literally just look at your logs for fights and see who is going the most damage during the moment you would want to PI someone.
@@gary6631 That's not really a good measure. As a quick example, let's take a look at a Balance Druid, Fire Mage, and Affliction Warlock. If the fire mage is about to have Combustion, it doesn't matter where the other players are, as they are gonna get the highest benefit. Is you druid at the top? Congrats, who cares. PI for them won't do too much, so just give it to the Warlock, who will benefit from it way more.
Yall gonna get mad when i say my main healer PI's me the BDK in dungeons arent ya?
@@gary6631 that's literally not how pi works but sure spread false info.
I appreciate your thoughtful take on this. I have a question: Why is it, do you think, that Blizzard schedules these kinds of things on holiday weekends? The Great Push is over Memorial Day weekend, and even with the pandemic, I suspect a lot of folks will have plans for the long weekend, thus even further impacting viewership. Seems to be a tiny bit of a sabotage to schedule even a one-off tourney on a national holiday.
The Great Push PepeLaugh
Honestly the great push is a terrible name it sounds like what I do when constipated.
LOL
You should make a short intro to put in the beginning of each video which gives some basic info on who you are. I play WoW a lot but I don't keep up with top guilds and had to go out of my way to look up who you actually were. Just a small piece of advice! :)
Thats always a tough one, alot of people (seems to be common in wow players) really tend to get irritated when there is some intro before getting to the content even if its only like 30 seconds people are just "SHUT UP AND GIMME INFO NOOOOW"
@@rivertam711 That's actually a good point! I talked to a friend on WoW yesterday about exactly that and he said he likes it when YT videos get straight to the point and don't have an intro. I just thought a 5-10 second intro with his name, guild and world first accolades (even a mention that it's WoW) might be nice :)
@@grahamvandyke "Limit Maximum" "All related videos have raidleading in the title" Hmmmm, wonder who it is /s.
Let's break down that sarcastic sentence that I just said.
"Limit Maximum" Ok, so this guy is part of complexity limit, and he plays a character called Maximum, similar to how all FaZe members in FPS games have FaZe ____. Basic and straightforward.
"All related videos have raidleading in the title" must be a raidleader. Oh, that wasn't that hard.
@@andrewcook_ Hey smartass, next time read my comment before replying. "...I don't keep up with top guilds...". This video also doesn't have "raidleading" in the title, I don't know who or what "FaZe" is and I didn't know Limit had changed their name to Complexity Limit.
I'm surprised blizzard didn't come out and offer new toys/mounts so they could crowd fund this prize pool. And then give ANOTHER bonus to kotick.
What is the song in the background at 5:20 ish?? Sounds so familiar can’t remember where it’s from
It sounds like "In the House, In a Heartbeat"
From the movie 28 Days/weeks Later. It's a metal rendition
@@StrobeFireStudios do you know who the meta rendition is by
The song in the beginning of this video: It's probably not, but is it "Interworld and the New Innocence" by Buckethead?
I don't think so. I believe it's some synth wave off of one of his raid playlists on spotify. I'm just not sure which song, but I've heard it on stream before.
Aquatic Ambience by Volkor X
Does anyone have a link to what he refers to with Darkee coming up with the DH kiting and killing everything with the spotter stuff? Sounds interesting and I missed that.
Never saw the clip of Darkee doing it but it you watch any siege of boralus for the last couple of seasons, it's what most groups were doing
Would be funny if they had random comps and specs. Both teams get the same list.
MDI needs to be a 1 or 2 time expansion event. No Cups. Just 1 championship ever 6months-1year. One time prize pool. Boringness mostly solved. Build anticipation for it. promote it.
The only MDI I actually get invested into was the original one in Legion, I forget what it was called, but it was the most diverse and had the most surprises with teams doing things *completely* different to each other and no-one knowing what was going to happen. Since then things have stratified a lot.
If I can be forgiven for going to a traditional sporting metaphor, it was basically the difference between an amateur event and a professional event. In amateur events anything can happen, dark horses show up, new tactics happen, all sorts of thing. Professional... Well if you are into the professional sports it's all about execution of traditional tactics, which can be fine if you know what is going on, but it's hardly for the casual viewer.
I do blame Blizzard for this partially as well, it's very clear that they designed some dungeons with esports in mind and I think that is a big mistake not only because it hurts traditional players but it limits the scope of what passionate runners can do. Who remembers some of the nutso things happening in the original MDI that were only possible because Blizzard didn't expect anyone to be that crazy?
Honestly I'm looking forward to this new one, but the bitching about the prize pool is really getting me down. It seems like everyone wants wants to be a 'pro' and earn a living from it, rather than be passionate about the game itself.
Here after echo won it well max was right lol
the prize pot is a joke....age of empires 2..which came out in 1999 still has 80k+ prizepools per tournie for their tournies and thats for 1v1 tournies...lol...for the size of the company blizzard is, its a joke.
A lot of fighting game tournaments get significantly more viewership and a lower payout. So ...
It's like you have no conceptual idea for how profits work.
There are costs to things and margins, especially when it comes down to maintenance.
If you can't see this and how those things are VERY different for Blizzards WoW and Ensamble Studios/Microsoft AoE you really should refrain from making comments like this. One product is *significantally* more expensive than the other to maintain.
Just because something is major doesn't mean the profit in it is *as major*.
Your sales does not necessarily give you major profit if the cost of maintenance is huge. AoE probably makes more profit per sale than WoW.
@@jonteguy this game is also significantly more popular than Aoe2, has way more funding, way more profitable and a broader potential audience, if you want your esport to be sucessful you need to make the payout worth the time investment for the players, im sure there are a lot of people who would be willing to participate but straight up dont because the time investment per payout isnt a liveable amount. if you dont make the end payout incentive enough all the teams that will bother to compete are the super corps, like limit/method/echo etc who already have enough funding to pay their players a nice wage so they can live without worry while then competing on a extremely popular game that has millions of plyers which then inturn brings in more profit for limit/method etc. having the same 5-6 teams constantly competing will make it stale very fast. look at LoL for an example, the payouts there are big enough to where there are always wildcard teams who are brand new to the scene or up and coming players etc so its a forever changing scene, while WoW because the payouts arent worth the time investment only have the same hardcore players theyve had for the last 5-10 years. you have to make the competitions valueable enough for people to want to strive to push and fight for the chance of seeding for it.
@@jonteguy you have no concept of how investment works. You start by putting money into something and getting nothing, then overtime that thing starts to generate income and you make it back. Blizzard has way more than enough money to put the investment in, do the esport right, make it fun for viewers, and then rake in profit with ad deals.
@@COBHCdeathroll WoW is a big game. WoW esports are not.
if they want more money, you don't play wow. simple.
True, but maybe the guys playing actually enjoy the game though?
It's very clear to me that people complaining about prize pools have never been in business or have no clue how a budget is allocated & managed. "BuT bObBy MaKeS 100 tImEs ThAt PeR yEaR"...
So true lol
"BuT bObBy MaKeS 100 tImEs ThAt PeR yEaR" Yes but Bobby also be pulling in 100 times (if not more) that a year by directing the team
whoa!!! 20,000 whole dollars. Blizzard is reaching deep into its pockets..they are a small indie company and need to watch their marketing budget.
Could they not come up with a better name?
Battlegrounds should be the real esports
absolutely agree. there is zero relatable content during the cup and why there is multiples of them makes little sense. it should just be like top 4 teams over 2 days that are shown ONCE per season, increase the prize pool proportional to their effort.
stop with just +19's or whatever and show +25's or +30's where things are beyond mass pullable for the danger category, or even put tournament realm characters down to something like 170 item level and do +15's
0:26 two gays
MDI is a terrible format. Speed running nobody really likes not even those competing. High push you will see will keep veiwership much more. Because all skill levels will relate. It is pushing highest keys you can push. Some skill is 25s right now others is 15s others is 10s. But strats used will work for all key levels..
Your doing great max
Every comp is going to be DH tank, mage, priest, rogue, and hunter
Never seen a single second of MDI, and find M+ repugnant; but I do love you channel and content, sir.
I figured blizzard was giving birth or something
1:30 something Max is missing here is that the prize pool isn't dependent on the money raised from the event, this isn't supposed to be a balanced budget situation.
This is blizzard trying to advertise their game, advertising costs money. If they want these events to be taken seriously they need to do everything they can to get people excited for the events and to take the event seriously.
When a team wins the MDI and then talks about how they basically made less than minimum wage, it's not exactly something that's going to hype people up.
ESport payouts always are correlated to general interest, viewership etc. If no one watches, it's a bad advertisement. If people only watch that are active Wow players, it's maybe okay advertisement for the sponsors, but not blizzard and the game.
Conversation around WoW ESport payouts always invoke comparisons to heavy hitters like League but that's just not fair. Interest in wow esports are much closer (probably less tbh) to something like tekken or street fighter than league or dota, so it's more honest to compare payouts between those. Suddenly it aligns better.
@@steeplewiththesnakes I mean anything is possible if you just make things up....
Rocket League has almost triple the payout of WoW but 25% of the viewership on twitch
@@Taalanos now compare wow esport viewership and payouts with fighting game tournaments.
Yes payout for WoW esports is low. But so is interest, especially given how massive the game is. There are of course cases of developers etc throwing money at games to make it an ESport, but that totally doesn't always work. What's the ROI? How many people go and buy WoW after watching the MDI or the AWC?
@@steeplewiththesnakes "fighting game" what?
Are you hoping that if you are ambiguous you can attempt a gotcha by saying literally anything I mention wasn't the right 'fighting game'
@@steeplewiththesnakes for understanding of why I used rocket league, I looked at the top 10 paying esports and checked the viewership of the lowest listed game.
There's 2 gays.
oof
League is loosing watchability too. They release champs with 20 possible passive and skill combinations and you have to keep up to date with the game all the time to enjoy it properly.
That is a lot of things companies don’t get. To make a successful esport it should be simple to follow but complex to master. Case in point, SC tournaments. The basic game is high tech chess, if you never played so besides dabbing for the story you can follow through, but you can still enjoy the spectacle. And even if someone never played SC they can see what is going on and it’s generally easy to follow regardless.
well. if you dont want to put the time in to win, dont enter it. simple as that. it will also send a message that the prize pool is not worth it. you can make a choice, you are not forced to to commit to this.
Subtitles on this are a shitshow lol
Wow Max is wrong for once. The prize pools are not remotely high enough if they want to actually make it an esport and not simply have this be a failed experiment that they look back on.
In order for a team to practice for a week, their week has to be open. They can’t be full time students or employees. That means they either have to be teens still at home, likely getting Cs or below in school, or they need to be part-time in whatever they’re doing or they put their livelihoods in jeopardy.
As a result, you end up with a few super teams made up of pro players and then everyone else. If it’s the Method show over and over, there is only ONE reason to watch and that’s research. How do i do the dungeon faster? I’ll watch that world’s best time video. That means hours and hours of the competition goes unwatched and there’s no revenue.
Stop listen no stop
I thought he said the prize is too low?
From what I gather, it's a circular problem.
- low viewership = less $$ for Blizzard
- Less $$ for Blizzard = lower prize pool
- Lower prize pool = less competitors
- Less competitors = less interesting competition (duh)
- Less interesting competition = lower viewers
rinse and repeat.
The move to YT really did seem to hurt massively, though. As a former OWL viewer, it's apparent there as well. I don't know the details exactly, but from what I do know, Blizzard was sore that Twitch didn't want to pay them an unreasonable amount of money.
I could be wrong, but just thinking about it bothers the hell out of me.
Would also add that I didn't watch the whole vid...cause it's 3am and I really need to sleep.
@@Kryptic712 you misheard
Feels like this was a video made to outright defend blizz as opposed to having an opinion. Opinions were 100% on the side of the esports division.
Blizzard is cheap as hell. If you want to make money you'll play other games.
For some people it's not necessarily about earning the top dollar. It's about scratching a competitive itch, the money is nice of course but competing can just feel so damn good.
if you want to make money you'll get a job at mcdonalds lmao. 99.9% chance you'll make more money than playing games with way less stress
@@danny7694 fuck that. mdi is like a job. at that point it's not fun.
Blizzard is handed out a budget by Activision. Blizzard is actually getting less money than they should and they are understaffed.
I would not call them cheap because the budget given to them is smaller than it should be considering it's the #1 MMO out at the moment. Activision is all about min/maxing profit, in the long term this will lose them money though as considerable competitors get released.
Off the top of my head I would argue Riots MMO might be one such thing.
There are multiple articles and videos explaining how Blizzard don't get the budget they actually need to maintain the #1 MMO in the world. Would advice you to look into that if you are actually interested. But yeah, I wouldn't say they are cheap. They can't afford to give out more for smaller tournaments.
@@jonteguy wow is going to lose 1/2 its members when Riot's mmo is released.
xd
first
fronk
world first comment
Based on the viewership its need to be said that RFW is neither interesting esport