Gen. Ben Hodges: "It's our objective that Ukraine wins" | Ukraine This Week
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
- In this episode, we focus on Ukraine's attacks on Russia's air defense capabilities as well as diplomatic events, such as the Ukraine Recovery Conference held in Munich. Tune in as our guests Denis Tsyba, Andreas Umland, and retired General Ben Hodges speak with Don Arleth on what's happened in Ukraine this Week.
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General Ben Hodges, thank you! You are one of my favorite bad asses. God bless you and yours. Slava, Ukraine! Slava heroes of Ukraine! Much love from Austin, Texas
Ben will not save you. Old world order is Kaput
Amen on the Austin. I've two children and three grandchildren in Austin.
Gen. Hodges is the best guest to invite on your program. Thank you.
the général was one of main actor in theillegal war in Iraq under false evidences with torture in Abu Abu Graihib jail this ares war crimes and crimes against Peace
The conflict made at least 1 million death and was the origin of Islamic state creation who killed in my Town Paris 300 deaths of terrorism
Ukraine was in the coalition of USA and has also been actor of this horrors
now all these people ( Sénile US général, us politicians corrupted ukrainian leaders give lessons of morality and how to respect international law !!! Just disgusting
"I heard Gen. Ben Hodges say that this SMO has been going on for too long; end it ASAP. "Glory to Ukraine and Glory to the Free World!!!!"
Thank you TVP and General Ben Hodges.
Thank you, TVP ! Definitely the best commercial news channel For information on Ukraine War.
Always enjoy hearing from General Hodges.
He needs to be an adviser to Western leaders.
You can't take half measures and tip toe through a war if you're going to fight it. Fight it with gusto.
Ukraine still has the fight, so arm them while they can and still do have the fight in them and stop restricting them.
Absolutely. Hopefully his wise words will reach the right ears in dc 👍
👏 👍💯 🇺🇦✌️
He is the consumate patriot, and his mild criticism of U.S. politicians is a smokescreen, designed to obscure the fact that a stalemate means continued record export prices for American industry, and Washington wants it to continue for as long as possible, so that those who benefit most from those massive profits, will make big donations to political election campaign funds… It’s happened time and time again… And will continue to happen for as long as it’s considered legal..
@@littlehumphreyton7580 Wow, you’ve got it all figured out. But you forgot the WEF.
@@littlehumphreyton7580 Or, a security ring was put in place with F35s?
General Hodges Is a great man who has been a great leader of men and women alike. A staunch supporter of Ukraine. He has been kind enough to provide us with updates and analysis of the war. May God bless him and his family. Thank you 💛 Sir. And thank you TVP World.
TVP WORLD, thank you for the update on Ukraine 🇺🇦 🇺🇦 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
"It's our objective that Ukraine wins" We the People!
Regarding the glide bombs, Ukraine does have their own already and they’re about to test it
I think they have started. ☺
They are called JDAMS, already fielded.
@@georgine321 I might be thinking of a newer variation, they mentioned something new was about to be deployed on Ukraine, the latest
@@AstroGremlinAmericanJDAM don't matter when Russia has FAB-3000 and FAB-5000's, both bigger than JDAM variants.
Very good inviting Gen. Hodges! USA
hey, don - great work, thanks!
Slava UKRAINE
Heroyam Slava! This is just a rumor but many ships that sailed to Cuba may now have "kick me" stickers on their props.
No nonsense analysis ,
..by General Hodges.
He is superb..👍
Ben Hodges should be in the Pentagon … 👍😊
He is past the mandatory retirement age for general staff officers in the US military
HE'S NOW A FOREIGN AGENT
Of course.🇺🇸🇺🇦👊👍
Ben Hodges is the man.
I hope the Biden will listen to this General Hodges
General Ben, top bloke.
Wonderful to see that Russia will pay for reconstruction
Remember what they said abt S-300 and S-400.."the best air defence system in the world"..yeah right😂wonder what countries like Turkey,India etc thinking today,when they see in real time how "good" these systems are😂..think they regret buying those??.
s300 and 400 are definitely best air defense system in Russia. Much to the joy of Western observers and the growing horror of countries who bought those systems.
There's been down turn in uae n .India buying loads of stuff . N the weapons from nk didn't work as well either .
There's no urgency in selling western tech to authoritarian pro-Russian states.
How about Russian hypersonic missiles? How are you gona defend against it? Pentagon can not see them. NATO has no radar capable see Russian Zircon, Dagger, Awangard . One missile = one Yankee aircraft carrier
Gen. Hodges for US President!
Audio is rough with interviewee.
The Russians had to dock in Cuba, to replace their worn out paddles, and get treated for Scurvy.
MOEX in disarray, rusha doesn’t have a future in the civilised society.
Pootin: all is going according to plan, I’m still the master strategist 😅
Don, why did you not ask that interviewee to switch off his TV? AND please get rid of the annoying moving background.
I recall in the 1964 presidential campaign, Goldwater's position was to quit ambiguity WRT Vietnam. He said we should either try to win, unleashing our generals, or get out. The Johnson campaign successfully painted this as extremist warmongering, while Johnson was the calm, peaceful candidate saying we would never risk "our American boys". At the time, he had already begun shipping soldiers over there.
What's your point?
He was…tricky!
How can you tell when a politician is lying?
Their lips are moving.
LBJ ran a commercial with a mushroom cloud painting Goldwater as a reckless hawk. Then LBJ proceeded to lose a bunch of American boys, accomplishing only body count and failing to win.
It’s the same old formula…. Wars create market instability, which raises the value of certain exports, and fuel, armaments etc. are often the most profitable commodities… So the longer it goes on, the more money certain big campaign donors make…. That’s why LBJ did nothing after being shown proof that Japan was going to attack Pearl Harbour….
Slava Ukraine
It's fun to take potshots at Russia's S400 air defence system but it's also worth remembering that Ukraine has used its predecessor the S300 to great effect so the S400 system's failure is probably due far more to the ineptitude of the Russian forces than it is due to any shortcoming of the S400 system itself.
In yet another example of my country's ineptitude, the HMCS Margaret Brooke, an "offshore patrol vessel" whatever that means, has docked in Havana with the Russian ships. Cuba invited the Canadian ship to come for a visit, and the JT govt was too inept to actually look at what was going on and so the military gave them permission to do so.
On a funny note, one could write a story about this. "It was a dark and stormy night in Havana when a group of Russian submariners stumbled into a bar filled with Canadian sailors." It would be a short story. Short and sharp. LOL Then our glorious leader would apologize to Putin for our sailors' behaviour.
CDN Here, News to me will need to read up on this. But hey, that dark and stormy night when the HMCS M B left port and accidently rammed the RU sub and JT gives his condolences.
@@runrau9275 Our completely trustworthy and unbiased CBC reported on this earlier today.
@@rockbutcher LOL, and they always have comments turned off.
@@runrau9275 YEP. I like your version of the story just as much though!! Fingers crossed the old girl could limp back to port on the mainland after the ramming though 😆
34 minutes before Ben !! wow !! ....
Slava Ukraini
Cuba beware that Russia is not misleading you
Rest assured, Russia is definitely misleading Cuba.
Communism is not long for the region.
Indeed, Cuba, you are being misled, again. Castro, Kruschev, Putin, the song remains the same.
Yes, do not trust the bees that give you they honey,
@@jefferyshute6641 i'm sure they'll take advice from the country that tried to invade them
What is happening in Italy with the G7 Summit is historic and a great salute to Ukraine from the west, but what should be up front and center is that the west has no beef with the Russian people at all. What we need to stress to President Putin in the simple fact that we in the west follow a rules-based international agreement which implies that a greater force from one country cannot take over a lesser force from another country and cherry-pick territory like it were in a supermarket deciding which food to purchase. President Putin does not seem to understand that our backs are against the wall from Rome to Ottawa and Sacramento to London, we cannot and will never cede territory to a stronger opponent simply because they are stronger. Our whole work ethic and societies are based on this precept and if we ever give in and say to President Putin for example, go ahead then, take the Dombas and why not Crimea and hey, if you are thinking about Odessa, it's yours for the asking. President Putin, please understand that the west cannot back down because our whole existential reason for being goes up in smoke if we let you take parts of Ukraine for your own...
Putano doesn't read this, and if he did, what makes you think he would care? He's a power hungry autocrat who has no interest with international law, doesn't care about his own people and saying "please President Putin..." gets you nowhere.
Good show
❤❤❤❤❤
There is a term for the trickling out ordinance and kit to Ukraine......called "Slow rolling". Extremely frustrating for Vlod. He sorta references this in his daily speeches.
We must change our procedure from talking too much and do the Actions to save the people of Ukraine and Russia from greedy people.
13:40 he couldn't even turn down the music in the background, tell his roomemates/family to be quiet, or switch to a small room?
Sorry. I'm not from Finland, but even I find this annoying.
Not that much sympathy with this guy.
But the message was clear.
May God’s Mighty Angels continue to guide and protect His people.🙏. 🗽⚖️✌️🇺🇦👍
This is great!! Russias seized money should go to Ukraine.. But will they restrict Ukraine from buying weapons that they’re not currently being provided or will they allow them to spend it on whatever weapons they want? Regardless of the reach and capabilities it gives them against Russia?..
Whatever Ukraine needs to spend it on, they can. It is their money to do with as they please.
@@I_am_Phil_Lee I agree.. however, they’re currently being made to fight with one hand behind their backs and only being allowed and provided certain weapons.. If I was in charge, I’d’ve given them everything we have with no limitations.. What Russia has done and is still doing is horrible. Ukraine should’ve been given all we have and more..
@@CloudChaser_83 Well, at least with the money from this source, they can buy whatever they want and use it however they need to.
I agree that the only restrictions should be the rules of war, and the only limit should be the ability of each civilised nation to afford any type and variation of weapon that can be made, even if the donor has to give now from its own defence force and backfill later.
I like this presenter.
Ukraine better step up their own mobilization, Get those young men off their buts!!
Who F'in cares what the Russian constitution says about occupied territory now belongs to them ? Quote the Ukraine constitution about their own soverign territories.
Lavrov on Putin's proposal: “Those that have ears to hear, let them hear. Those that have brains, let them understand,” the minister said, adding that, although he was “not sure that everything is alright with those organs” when it comes to the Western politicians, he still hopes that some good can come of it.
I am a native born American and I stand for Ukrain. Anyone who believes in Democracy should stand with and against Russian tyrany. I was an avid supporter of Trump in the last election. However I now stand against him. He has changed in my mind. He no longer supports Democracy and free elections. He thinks the government is responsible for all his errors and mistakes. No one put a gun to his head and said he must do all his terrible things. This shows his true character. I realize no one's perfect and God knows several of our past president's have shown character flaws. However I don't believe Trump falls into this category. He keeps on pursuing bad judgment in many ways. This is not the same man I voted for in the past election. Watch out fellow Republicans because he is out to prove something. He has a grudge to settle. He's like a wounded animal seeking revenge. That's how I see him today. Thank you if you took time to read this.
You say but what about Biden. I know...he's not my first choice and there's the age thing and God forbid that he dies in office BECAUSE NOBODY wants Harris to take the presidency. So I'm conflicted if I should vote at all but it is my duty as an American. Too bad we can't do a write in vote because there are others more capable. Retired general Ben Hodges come to mind.
Ben Hodges is deflecting, in order to preserve good will toward America…And his assertion that Washington has no objective, is completely absurd…
Governments and politicians do not choose the constituent parts of aid packages… This is done by logistics experts, who in concert with strategists, carefully decide what to send, and when to send it, in order to achieve the goals given to them by their policy making superiors in government … It is that simple… And every military commander knows it…
The almost perfect stalemate, which has allowed this conflict to drag on for so long, has brought about record profits for U.S. enterprises and individuals, due to the unprecedented increases in energy, weapons, medical supplies, and other war oriented exports… And it is those individuals and commercial enterprises, who finance the obscenely expensive election campaigns of American politicians, so that when an opportunity like this arises, they can either repay their donors in kind, or find themselves unable to fund their next campaign…
In order to achieve this level of military frontline balance, those who compiled all U.S. aid to Ukraine, must have been given that condition as the objective, which explains all of the delays, including the outright ban on supplying F-16s by third parties until Washington gives authorisation..
The logical conclusion is that The U.S. government intends to prolong the war until it looks like Russia is going to either win or be beaten, and then make sure that every penny possible is gleaned from the wreckage…
Or maybe ukraine shouldn’t have gone for the counteroffensive last summer? They are currently applying what pentagon and international community suggested to them instead of that. Isnt it working? Ukraine shouldn’t be making requests for weapons and rule change publicly. It puts them and us in danger. The last thing we want is Putin’s men burning down the warehouse of Abrams. Plenty of countries pretending to be neutral are secretly selling their soviet stuffs to ukraine via US. Putin is extremely dangerous. His embassies threaten leaders.
US weapon industry is overloaded with orders from all over the world since countries are afraid of seeing Putin’s copycats coming after them. That’s why, biden lifted the sanction on turkey. Somebody needs to share the burden. China failed to satisfy arm buyers with quality being the main issue. But Ukraine cant afford to lose. Stalemate is same as handing Putin his theft and the time to rebuild his military for a new assault.
Fact is we ain't giving up too too no dictator.....
Ben is at 34:00
Thanks 🫡
Slava Ukraini! eroyam slava!!! Free Tibet! Free the world!!! (O.S. shop... how about, your best resource, or, your best source for U... gravitas, y'uno
Surrender russian soldiers....go home
Ben Hodges for president of the United States of America! YES!!!
If Ukraine followed April 2022 Istanbul Russia / Ukraine agreement Kherson and Zaporezia would be Ukraine. Lugansk and Donbas would decide their fate on referendum. The west did not allow this hence all four are Russia now.
@14:30 The current Mayor of Kupiansk wearing a luxury brand shirt from Italy (Moncler) is a sign of corruption and he should be removed from office right away!! He looks like he just woke up from a nap and he also needs a haircut and a shave for presentation purposes along with some proper clothing. He does not look like anyone I would vote for or support if I am a Ukrainian citizen and I needed basic items like food & water and he is wearing imported designer clothes, then there is a problem with him and the picture he presents to the public & global eyes. The SBU needs to investigate him and his prior actions for corruption. He also apologizes for his predecessor who fled to Russia, which make me suspect him more and he makes a bad video with a lot of background noise instead of being focused on the interview which is opposite of what any Mayor would be doing and who should be pleading for World assistance to his city and Ukraine as a whole.
great review of last week
ya, right , "Attack your neighbor, then cry victim .. " . . .
The Leadership in Poland understands this situation in Ukraine. Military spending headed towards 6% GDP. Poland will be ready for any aggression from Russia or Belo- Russia.
Why TVP readership is down?
How long does it take to translate the training materials into Ukrainian?
There's more to the story than what Ben Hodges was told. I assume any aviator in the world must have full command of the English language to enter the program.
@@rambleon2838 You assume. WTF
Trump/ Hodges 2024
Gen. Hodges is slipping, and too used to peacetime bureaucracy. Ukraine is already testing their own precision-guided glide bomb, and is expecting to deploy it on anything that can physically carry the weight of it within a week or two.
They haven't wasted time with a congressional defence spending oversight committee appointing a procurement subcommittee to agree on the military need so that another subcommittee can decide on the specifications and issue a requirements specification so that after at least three bids from different companies have been submitted it can then go back for the original oversight committee to make a recommendation to congress on who the prime contractor should be, based on competitive bidding rules that take no account of the urgency (it is outside their terms of reference) and only the price.
Ukraine just DID it instead of talking about it. Like the drone teams who have embedded developers in the team, so that prototypes are tested in action, any modifications made immediately, onsite, and then called back to the manufacturers, many with dozens of "out-workers" who make their allotted number at home, after their day job.
Where the anti-aircraft batteries need to protect is likely to be contentious to many, but I think I already know, based on the fact that many civvies were pleased by the start of the blitz, as it signalled the end of attacks on RAF bases, allowing defenders a chance to recover and rebuild. They didn't enjoy hiding in shelters, of course, but they knew that each raid on them was one NOT on Biggin Hill, Hornchurch, Manston, Martlesham Heath, Gravesend (samples from 11 group), Duxford, Wittering, Coltishall (samples from 12 group) and all the others. Ukraine has to prioritise the defence of strategic sites ahead of cities, although, in an ideal world, they'd have enough to do both.
Rhinemetahl has plans for repair factory in Ukraine so armour and artillery can be repaired rather than having to be brought back to Germany.
Poland can give more tanks and mobile artillery now. Replacing tanks with 900+ Korean k2 Panther tanks Also building factory to make same tanks and parts in Poland. Rights given by Korea.
Ukraine needs money to fight for there land not reconstruct. What good is reconstruction money when its russias land if they lose? Thats plain stupid to give money for reconstruction right now. Win before ANYTHING !!!
The rebuilding of Ukraine is linked to the military aide, no contracts for rebuilding, no aide, less aid slow aid.
Ukraine says too much blood been spilt
Traitors , beware !
Apprehension, well USA should have blocked Cuba same as JFK did. But then JFK was not a coward unlike Biden. From Australia 🇦🇺
Yes. It's a great idea and strategy to involve as many nations as possible and to strategize for reconstruction. It won't be long before Ukraine has its equivalent of an 'iron dome,' and adding constant F-16 air cover will be intact. So what is the host talking about? Planning for reconstruction after the war when the situation will be suitable to begin and adjust the reonstruction as needed. We think sometimes journalists might want to stay out of practical matters. This one seems to be a proverbial pessimist. He is great where he is since we don't think he would be useful on the battlefield Already he's being too cautious and ducking for cover out of the action. No. We believe he would be useless.
Russia is thinking about land and sea, but USA is already in the space armed with the threedent nuclear weapons watching over Russia 🇷🇺.
They been saying this for so long yet nothing is done. Is nothing but bull shit. They must do it now
Canada will start ramping up military spending now, thus Ukraine will get more assets from the CAF.
How would General Hodges beat the Ho Chi Minh Trail that keeps Russian troops and ammo moving to the front? Russia is competent at moving people and items to a widely dispersed prison system. They have applied that competence to the task of staying in Ukraine.
Giving Ukraine everything it needs to win this war and Ukrainian integration into the EU and NATO is the west’s best self defense.
Submarine looks….shabby.
regime change for russia
Is it true Zelensky made an enimies list with Americans on it? idk if true but if it is thats crazy
Hyper sonic missile speeds achieved to date:
Russian Dagger missile Mach 9-10, ZIRCON 10-11, Avangard hypersonic glider Mach 25 , All in full production with Russian frigate parked in Cuba armed with Zircon missiles.
China Angry Bird - Mach 6 under development
USA - Mach 5 under development
Using ATACMS of the clusters bombshell! Russia 🇷🇺 troops can’t move.
Ukrainians are some the most brilliant and fearsome soldiers in the world. The drone technology that they have developed is game changing. Slava Ukraine from Georgia, USA. Go Dawgs
America has only one Objective all the time : to strengthen the US Dollar.
Yes, I am a mere Monday morning arm chair quarterback versus the figurative head coach of a Super Bowl Winning Team, General Ben Hodges. Just the same, how about clarifying the meaning of "win" for Ukraine against Russia? One idea of "win" to me is Russian forces are driven back to the 1991 borders, all Russian missile launchers within striking distance of Ukraine are destroyed, all Russian war planes are destroyed? Two thirds or more of Russian petroleum refineries are destroyed? What are the opinions of you who want more Democratic Ukraine to defeat more Dictatorial Russia? Of those of you whose opinions I request, versus that of Russian trolls, what one page do you recommend we present to Congress and the President of the United States?
USA prepares the nuclear in the space: stars wars .
Justin under attack for goin' cheap on NATO spending. Haha. Many questions asked in french and eniglish.
Fantasy Fiction Propaganda
Putin says give up your lands ....
if we try to invade cuba would they sink our navy
Slava Ukraini Slava Poland 🇺🇦🦖✊
Putless, a man trying to live in the past
🇺🇲🇺🇦🇬🇧🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏ยูเครนจงชนะสงครามตลอดกาล
Go bk too your families
Wishing the USA 🇺🇸 independence of the Putin wannabe
The m oving background is too distracting to watch. Need to change it to something more stable to the eye. Sorry, can not watch it. Won't subscribe.
How can Ukraine win when Russia has nuclear weapons and a manpower level that is unmatched? Ukraine is a lesson as why countries like Estonia 🇪🇪 are intelligent in that they reduced corruption massively, secured alliances, and had spectacular economic growth!
Ukraine is winning because the terrorist federation no longer has an economy in any meaningful sense, and is effectively bankrupt and consuming itself just to stay in existence.
Taking apart their oil refining capabilities at several refineries a week is soon going to remove the lifeblood of any mechanised military - fuel. It is already heavily restricted.
Ukraine is getting stronger by the day as the terrorist federation is getting weaker. When the collapse is complete, the constituent parts will gladly trade any nukes left on their territory for international recognition and reduction of sanctions (although dropping them altogether will have to wait until their fair share of the reparations has been paid) and all hostages returned, of course.
The Baltic states are not a fair comparison as they had a far shorter occupation, so less chance for terrorist corruption to get its feet firmly under the table. Despite that, Ukraine HAD reduced corruption massively and seen spectacular economic growth. That is what Vladolf Putler was slavering over. The reduction in corruption has continued to the extent that it now meets EU standards (which is better than many "civilised" non-EU nations, and some which have backslidden as members). Part of the problem has been terrorist federation propaganda, which is still trying to portray Ukraine as riddled with corruption, ably helped by their strong ally, the US felon and orange cult leader.
Have a look a Russia's population demographic there is a huge deficit in the younger generations which even if the war stopped tomorrow Russia will take generations to recover from if at all. The demographics were based on pre war statistics and does not take into account the million or so men that left Russia when Putin had his mobilisation. Basically Russia as lost much of its higher skilled workers and their manpower resources are so good they are using foreign often tricked immigrants to fill the ranks. As for nuclear weapons you must remember that the west maintain their weapons. Given the corruption in Russia and the lack of maintenance of Russian weapon systems using nukes may hold more of a danger to Russia given the number of failed missiles and bombs that have fell on their own territory.
@@allanchapman7986 demographics are arguably, even worse for Ukraine. The Baseline of demographics for Russia is still better. Everything else you said is just speculation.
How’s this… Russia is losing around a thousand or so men a day which is unsustainable.. Millions fled to Georgia and other neighboring countries. Their highly educated citizens have left.. All that’s left are the ones that couldn’t afford to leave and the ones that buy into Putins bullshit.. Russia is throwing people from other poorer countries into the meat grinder because they have run out of people.. Ukraine has been beating them with only a fraction of our capabilities and with only a fraction of Russias man power and with one hand tied behind their backs.. And now, there’s western troops in Ukraine.. Shits about to get real.. Russia won’t fire nukes. Putin is crazy, not stupid. No one is trying to invade Russia. They have no reason and China isn’t about to back Putin on that. Also, Zelenskyy has been reducing corruption.. He’s been cracking down the whole time during this war as part of the EU and Nato agreement to supply Ukraine weapons.. They desperately want to be like western countries. This is their time to shine to later become like Estonia.. Georgia wants this too but they don’t have the manpower to fight Russia as Ukraine has.. their problem is also putins puppets in government.. Georgians seriously hate the Russians like you wouldn’t believe..
putyn's Tantrum !!
What is this fake news the US goverment has said no such thing, just like the cuban guy said this is routien.
Ukraine you can defeat Putin we are all with you
General Ben Hodges USA Ret. is an experienced and brilliant commander and well versed in military acquisition political economy. The matching funds from EU and NATO approach the 101 Billion US effort. Creating an investment climate after the war and reconstruction efficiency through competition and interest. The uninsurable risks from war are a de facto tax warriors pay. The opportunity cost of not trading. A permanent stationing of NATO bases and forts across the Polish frontier seems like a long overdue move. With some economic beneifits.
Ben Hodges nothing that his 'Sapiencia' was put in perspective about last year Ukranian contra ofensive happened, otherwise we were not speak8ng about war, was suposto to be like butter, to reach Melitopol etc and Crimeia, well it was recovered a few miles at high cost, that has been lost gradually. Better not to belli3ve in his war analisis
vatniki
Ukraina put the whole world in danger.hopefuly the russians will save the world from destruction! if that will escalate to the sky we can shurley say good buy to this world as itis now & we can start to evolve from zero,
All of those thank.s to USA that you "polish" love so much !you have neighbours that are a lot nicer like mother father Russia they are very upset with you now because you help their enamy a lot!
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Da, Comrade, you partake of the potato juice again.
Botski reported, may you soon be drafted.
That's right. Ukraine encircled muskovia with tanks, 40 km long line of tanks. And now the whole world is in danger.
I hope you are not being paid in Rubles to write this nonsense. One roll of toilet paper holds more value.