Beethoven : Not "brook" [in German: Bach], but "sea" should he [Johann Sebastian Bach] be called because of his infinite, inexhaustible richness in tone combinations and harmonies
Thank you as I discovered each composer in 1963 at 12 in my Music Appreciation Class at same time the Beatles became known. I love both of these composers received an A in the class and still remember the final exam.
For me, it has to be Beethoven. It says if he’s hit your written your soul with his great music. Oh, for me, it’s for easy listening, and has a nice airy feeling. On the other hand, Beethoven goes right into your soul and brings out more emotions. Just think about it, his music is literally flying in outer space today. The CD was made to fit his symphony on it. His music, the ninth Symphony move it for, is the national anthem for the European Union. Just listen to his entire piano Concerto No. 5. They interviewed over 100 different Conductors, they wanted to know what was the greatest symphony written. They all voted or I should say the winner was Beethoven’s third symphony. I know that Bach did not have the symphony back in his day. Symphony No. 9 with 10,000 Japanese singing it, is absolutely incredible. In fact, in Japan, they play it during Christmas time.
For me, Bach is the greatest musician ever, and Beethoven is my favourite composer ever. I can appreciate a kind of divine quality to Bach--floating above the whole disaster. But Beethoven is so fully and unapologetically human. My mother was a narcissistic abuser, and Beethoven has been my refuge, mentor, and comforter since my teens. Whereas Bach gives an escape to some divine order, Beethoven gives dignity and companionship to human suffering. Yet, maybe Beethoven is divine, and the issue is that I was given a misguided understanding of what it means to be Christ.
I enjoy Beethoven’s greatest hits more than I enjoy Bach’s greatest hits, but Bach has an insanely huge amount of incredible music in the category just beneath “All-Time Best.” So it’s a tough decision ultimately.
Beethoven's music elicits more of my imagination, when I listen to the 6th symphony a whole movie plays out in my head of Ludwig's arrival to the cheerful, sunny village, his calm lounging by the river, the return to the village and its merry, dancing denizens, the rage of the afternoon storm, and finally the passing of the thunderheads and the glorious return of the sun to the sky. It's incredibly human and evokes experiences and feelings everyone can relate to, and I can see and hear every moment of it in my mind. Meanwhile, Bach's Brandenburg Concertos, Air on the G String, Mass in B Minor, etc aren't quite as specifically evocative in terms of imagination and conjuring images of a sequence of mortal events, but they do evoke emotions in a more pure and abstract way. The second movement of the sixth Brandenburg Concerto makes me feel wistfulness and bittersweet sadness in a way no other composition ever has. It's less directly aimed and more open to the listener's interpretation, to me it sounds like saying a final goodbye to an old friend or parting ways with a very dear lover. Both of these men were absolute masters of the musical craft in different ways, both were undeniable geniuses but it's hard to compare the two when their approaches were so drastically different.
8:08...Beethoven for me...the problem is a problem of ratio...for a given composer, the ratio between the pieces I like from a given composer, and those that leave me relatively indifferent...some of my favorite pieces are from Bach...but I like almost everything from Beethoven, and small part of what I know from Bach...if you take the composer Edvard Grieg (can never spell his first name), I probably like more pieces from Bach than him, but I know so few pieces from Grieg and like almost all of them, and I know many more pieces from Bach, and it's only a small part of them that I like...the cello suite is one of the ones I like...so it's like, composer X has 80 pieces that I know but I really care only for 20 of them, and the other composer has 8 pieces that I know and I care for 7 of them, I feel that means I like the second composer more, because 7/8 is larger than 40/80, lol...so it's a question of ratio, for me...when I like Bach, I really like Bach...but most of what I've heard from Bach leaves me relatively indifferent...
Sorry but history forces one to admit that it is a three-way tie. Bach summarized the polyphonic era of music forcing Mozart, in one SHORT lifetime, to reinvent music and find equal depth in homophonic music which gave Beethoven the tools to infuse emotion into musical expression. That said, both Mozart and Beethoven bent a knee to Bach and put him above them and became late in life fugue writers, not quite as good as Bach. Bach is the GOAT, but Mozart and Beethoven are his equals.
If we are being emotional as suggested here. I will prefer both, depending on my emotional state. Yet, in general I will go with Vivaldi who inspired all you followed so intensely. Thus without whom this discussion would not take place..
Both are Genius they have their own kind of talent and brilliance in Music . Its just so happened that Beethoven is my most favorite because his Music can connect in all forms of human emotions .while Bach can connect through passion and faith to God ..❤
The text at the end reads: «To watch the full conversation, visit …». That being said: There’s no conclusion. It’s art. To me, Bach is the greatest, closely followed by Mozart. Beethoven, Brahms, Schubert, Tchaikovsky and Prokofiev is probably in the next tier for me personally. If you believe the three great Bs are Bax, Boughton and Carl Philipp Emmanuel Bach, no one can tell you you’re wrong. You can determine the list yourself or just enjoy the wealth of art out there.
I am so glad that we're not diminishing MOZART: as all musical comparisons to him are absolutely unqualified, unfair, senselessly academic, and consequently, scientifically pedantic.
I'm in no position to judge or make judgement. Both are great composers in very different ways. However, Bach influenced Beethoven. Beethoven, for obviously reasons, didn't influence Bach. Bach also created new genres, or was the first to write in them... for example, as far as I am aware, he wrote the first keyboard concertos.
The audience already has their favorite playlists in mind so this is kind of a wasted opportunity imo. We still need an actual debate with a focus on arguments and keeping the playing to brief snippets as supportive or explanatory aids.
This is off-topic but comments are always turned off on lectures about Jews and anti-Semitism. Why is it that people who have no knowledge of Jewish history at all or scholars who study anti-Semitism are capable of deciding if something is anti-Semitic. If you’re going to respond that it isn't necessary, you’re wrong. It often is not obvious or simple. Even the FBI does not understand anti-Semitism. Jews make up approximately 0.2% of the world's population but the entire globe is obsessed with Jews. There are vast areas that have no Jews at all. This obsession isn’t positive
Both the video and the comments (including my comment) are simply a waste of precious lifetime. People who make music a competition don't understand anything. Just listen to Bach, Beethoven or whatever and enjoy it.
They opened this video saying that this isn’t grounded in any kind of objective truth, it’s more of an exercise to explore each composer. A lot can be learned by comparing two things, even if their comparison isn’t grounded in anything logical. It’s not an actual competition.
Funny joke. A pro does something people know how to do very well, a genius does something no one could understand or learn how to do. Something like that. Point is basketball is modern meaningless hogwash that shouldn’t be compared to fine arts, even at the highest level. They are both competitive, that’s about it
@@jonp3890 OK, then CHOPIN! Quite honestly I love Beethoven, and as a musician I respect and play a lot of Bach's music, which is unique in it's capacity for training a musician's 'mental technique'. But I can't say that I find his music as moving as Beethoven, Brahms or Chopin. I am not so religious, which I think is part of my issue with Mr. Bach. His two sets of the WT Clavier.... and various suites for solo instruments, I do love. They are all geniuses. Some of the most musically talented people I've known would say Mozart is the greatest and smartest composer. Einstein loved Mozart. I love his a minor Piano Sonata, one of his String Quartets in a minor key (I don't recall the key or K.#, (getting old) and several of his piano concerti are quite lovely, but I'm not an opera buff & for the most part I can't get past something 'cheesy' about much of Mozart's music. I am sure that's just me though... One should not forget Schubert, especially the music he composed in his last two years. Had he lived to 60, he would have been by far the greatest composer of all time.
I admit I’m somewhat biased against Brahms, for what specific reason I’ve never really been sure. It isn’t because I’m a Wagnerian, though, although I do like Wagner well enough. With Brahms, I suspect it has something to do with his coming so close on the heels of Beethoven. Can you imagine the bad luck of that? He himself certainly could, as I guess you probably know, referring to Ludwig’s enormous shadow looming over him…almost like a Droog of some sort. That had to be tough. How does anyone break real (instrumental) ground after that? I think Brahms just seems to me like a consummate craftsman, one I can’t be sure of the emotional depth and substance of. Although maybe, now that I think about it, seeing Clara behind every such motivation of his might help that a bit. I completely agree about Schubert (and Mozart). That Trout Quintet of his alone would work to secure his spot in my affections.
They were born 100 years apart. There’s no possible competition
Beethoven : Not "brook" [in German: Bach], but "sea" should he [Johann Sebastian Bach] be called because of his infinite, inexhaustible richness in tone combinations and harmonies
Nothing better than Bach 😊
Yeah. Like there's even a choice to be made there!
Only Beethoven
Both Great Genius, Both Great Composers , Both Great Musicians, but 2 different styles .
J.S. Bach is just above all and on another level. Listening to him everyday since discovered Sublime Beauty, Peace and Devine Harmony a few years ago.
Thank you as I discovered each composer in 1963 at 12 in my Music Appreciation Class at same time the Beatles became known. I love both of these composers received an A in the class and still remember the final exam.
I know who the winner is: Me...cos I can enjoy almost at will their genius content!
I respect Bach but I love Beethoven. It has to be Beethoven.
I concur
Ignoramus remarks
Bach.
He is the OG.
Every note is there for a reason.
Beethoven feels like he is just flexing.
(both are great)
For me, it has to be Beethoven. It says if he’s hit your written your soul with his great music. Oh, for me, it’s for easy listening, and has a nice airy feeling. On the other hand, Beethoven goes right into your soul and brings out more emotions. Just think about it, his music is literally flying in outer space today. The CD was made to fit his symphony on it. His music, the ninth Symphony move it for, is the national anthem for the European Union. Just listen to his entire piano Concerto No. 5. They interviewed over 100 different Conductors, they wanted to know what was the greatest symphony written. They all voted or I should say the winner was Beethoven’s third symphony. I know that Bach did not have the symphony back in his day. Symphony No. 9 with 10,000 Japanese singing it, is absolutely incredible. In fact, in Japan, they play it during Christmas time.
In my opinion Bach's St. Matthew Passion is the greatest work of art humanity has ever produced (and I mean every single medium of art)
Many thanx for this ❤❤❤
No doubt Beethoven! ❤ Thank you for this fun discussion! Both composers are great and contributed so much to the world!
For me, Bach is the greatest musician ever, and Beethoven is my favourite composer ever. I can appreciate a kind of divine quality to Bach--floating above the whole disaster. But Beethoven is so fully and unapologetically human.
My mother was a narcissistic abuser, and Beethoven has been my refuge, mentor, and comforter since my teens. Whereas Bach gives an escape to some divine order, Beethoven gives dignity and companionship to human suffering.
Yet, maybe Beethoven is divine, and the issue is that I was given a misguided understanding of what it means to be Christ.
Lovely post.
Eloquent writing, but prattle nonetheless. There is no comparison. I must assume those saying Beethoven haven’t experienced Bach properly
I could not make that decision Bach or Beethoven. Both equally. Bach for the tonal scale and Beethoven for the structure of music.
I enjoy Beethoven’s greatest hits more than I enjoy Bach’s greatest hits, but Bach has an insanely huge amount of incredible music in the category just beneath “All-Time Best.” So it’s a tough decision ultimately.
Beethoven. Period.
Beethoven's music elicits more of my imagination, when I listen to the 6th symphony a whole movie plays out in my head of Ludwig's arrival to the cheerful, sunny village, his calm lounging by the river, the return to the village and its merry, dancing denizens, the rage of the afternoon storm, and finally the passing of the thunderheads and the glorious return of the sun to the sky. It's incredibly human and evokes experiences and feelings everyone can relate to, and I can see and hear every moment of it in my mind. Meanwhile, Bach's Brandenburg Concertos, Air on the G String, Mass in B Minor, etc aren't quite as specifically evocative in terms of imagination and conjuring images of a sequence of mortal events, but they do evoke emotions in a more pure and abstract way. The second movement of the sixth Brandenburg Concerto makes me feel wistfulness and bittersweet sadness in a way no other composition ever has. It's less directly aimed and more open to the listener's interpretation, to me it sounds like saying a final goodbye to an old friend or parting ways with a very dear lover. Both of these men were absolute masters of the musical craft in different ways, both were undeniable geniuses but it's hard to compare the two when their approaches were so drastically different.
Without Bach there would be no Beethoven. He always pierces my soul and is the most eloquent argument for the existence of God.
The debate for who really is the best will continue forever but it's clear that almost everyone agrees the bronze medal goes to Mozart
"... sublimates suffering through beauty." 19:33
Bach every time
Cathedrals of sound
8:08...Beethoven for me...the problem is a problem of ratio...for a given composer, the ratio between the pieces I like from a given composer, and those that leave me relatively indifferent...some of my favorite pieces are from Bach...but I like almost everything from Beethoven, and small part of what I know from Bach...if you take the composer Edvard Grieg (can never spell his first name), I probably like more pieces from Bach than him, but I know so few pieces from Grieg and like almost all of them, and I know many more pieces from Bach, and it's only a small part of them that I like...the cello suite is one of the ones I like...so it's like, composer X has 80 pieces that I know but I really care only for 20 of them, and the other composer has 8 pieces that I know and I care for 7 of them, I feel that means I like the second composer more, because 7/8 is larger than 40/80, lol...so it's a question of ratio, for me...when I like Bach, I really like Bach...but most of what I've heard from Bach leaves me relatively indifferent...
Lol...11:21 - 22...he's preparing for his opponent's argument that Beethoven moved music forward, I'm guessing, by showing Bach did too...
Thumbs up for the correct spelling of Grieg’s first name. 🙂
Lol...thanks...
Sorry but history forces one to admit that it is a three-way tie. Bach summarized the polyphonic era of music forcing Mozart, in one SHORT lifetime, to reinvent music and find equal depth in homophonic music which gave Beethoven the tools to infuse emotion into musical expression. That said, both Mozart and Beethoven bent a knee to Bach and put him above them and became late in life fugue writers, not quite as good as Bach. Bach is the GOAT, but Mozart and Beethoven are his equals.
Your heart may choose Beethoven but your brain knows Bach is better
Beethoven is better
@@user-amine_logic I respect your opinion
If we are being emotional as suggested here. I will prefer both, depending on my emotional state. Yet, in general I will go with Vivaldi who inspired all you followed so intensely. Thus without whom this discussion would not take place..
You could probably make a similar argument for Handel, who was a beast too
Both are Genius they have their own kind of talent and brilliance in Music . Its just so happened that Beethoven is my most favorite because his Music can connect in all forms of human emotions .while Bach can connect through passion and faith to God ..❤
What happened? After 38 minutes the video ended. No conclusion.
The text at the end reads: «To watch the full conversation, visit …». That being said: There’s no conclusion. It’s art. To me, Bach is the greatest, closely followed by Mozart. Beethoven, Brahms, Schubert, Tchaikovsky and Prokofiev is probably in the next tier for me personally. If you believe the three great Bs are Bax, Boughton and Carl Philipp Emmanuel Bach, no one can tell you you’re wrong. You can determine the list yourself or just enjoy the wealth of art out there.
I am so glad that we're not diminishing MOZART: as all musical comparisons to him are absolutely unqualified, unfair, senselessly academic, and consequently, scientifically pedantic.
Bach could be more technical, but he doesn't deliver to me what Beethoven does. And one million years won't be able to convince to me of the opposite.
You’re wrong
no battle... Bach, Beethoven and Mozart...
Mozart?
Is te miraculus of the music and The most bigger genius
Bach its a Goat
But Beethoven is Beethoven
I'm in no position to judge or make judgement. Both are great composers in very different ways. However, Bach influenced Beethoven. Beethoven, for obviously reasons, didn't influence Bach. Bach also created new genres, or was the first to write in them... for example, as far as I am aware, he wrote the first keyboard concertos.
The audience already has their favorite playlists in mind so this is kind of a wasted opportunity imo. We still need an actual debate with a focus on arguments and keeping the playing to brief snippets as supportive or explanatory aids.
Give me Beethoven
Why this obsession with ranking composers? Its intelligence diminished not squared.
Beethoven has MANY great compositions. However ...
Bach has many, many, MANY monumentally GREAT compositions!
Bachoven for me
Cannot decide
I’ll choose Miles Davis 😂
Beethoven All Day 🎹
This is off-topic but comments are always turned off on lectures about Jews and anti-Semitism. Why is it that people who have no knowledge of Jewish history at all or scholars who study anti-Semitism are capable of deciding if something is anti-Semitic. If you’re going to respond that it isn't necessary, you’re wrong. It often is not obvious or simple. Even the FBI does not understand anti-Semitism.
Jews make up approximately 0.2% of the world's population but the entire globe is obsessed with Jews.
There are vast areas that have no Jews at all. This obsession isn’t positive
You’re right
Just playing Bach and saying he is god will not convert anybody one would think. Bach was a pastor of music, Beethoven was a modern composer
There is this fellow name of Chopin. Anyone hear of him?????
Bach ! there's no competition.. the bach language is incomparable.. hes like chasing beauty all the time
Both the video and the comments (including my comment) are simply a waste of precious lifetime. People who make music a competition don't understand anything. Just listen to Bach, Beethoven or whatever and enjoy it.
They opened this video saying that this isn’t grounded in any kind of objective truth, it’s more of an exercise to explore each composer. A lot can be learned by comparing two things, even if their comparison isn’t grounded in anything logical. It’s not an actual competition.
The difference between Bach and Beethoven?
Beethoven worshipped man. Bach worshipped God.
Musick is Bach Bach is Musick. full stop
Bach is Michael Jordan of classical music
Funny joke. A pro does something people know how to do very well, a genius does something no one could understand or learn how to do. Something like that. Point is basketball is modern meaningless hogwash that shouldn’t be compared to fine arts, even at the highest level. They are both competitive, that’s about it
Bach is beauty
Ludwig van, no competition for me
Beethoven every time
Beethoven is better than back because beethoven plays better songs
Beethoven
Brahms. BRAHMS!!
No. Just…no. Not compared to these two.
@@jonp3890 OK, then CHOPIN!
Quite honestly I love Beethoven, and as a musician I respect and play a lot of Bach's music, which is unique in it's capacity for training a musician's 'mental technique'. But I can't say that I find his music as moving as Beethoven, Brahms or Chopin. I am not so religious, which I think is part of my issue with Mr. Bach. His two sets of the WT Clavier.... and various suites for solo instruments, I do love.
They are all geniuses. Some of the most musically talented people I've known would say Mozart is the greatest and smartest composer. Einstein loved Mozart. I love his a minor Piano Sonata, one of his String Quartets in a minor key (I don't recall the key or K.#, (getting old) and several of his piano concerti are quite lovely, but I'm not an opera buff & for the most part I can't get past something 'cheesy' about much of Mozart's music. I am sure that's just me though...
One should not forget Schubert, especially the music he composed in his last two years. Had he lived to 60, he would have been by far the greatest composer of all time.
I admit I’m somewhat biased against Brahms, for what specific reason I’ve never really been sure. It isn’t because I’m a Wagnerian, though, although I do like Wagner well enough. With Brahms, I suspect it has something to do with his coming so close on the heels of Beethoven. Can you imagine the bad luck of that? He himself certainly could, as I guess you probably know, referring to Ludwig’s enormous shadow looming over him…almost like a Droog of some sort. That had to be tough. How does anyone break real (instrumental) ground after that? I think Brahms just seems to me like a consummate craftsman, one I can’t be sure of the emotional depth and substance of. Although maybe, now that I think about it, seeing Clara behind every such motivation of his might help that a bit.
I completely agree about Schubert (and Mozart). That Trout Quintet of his alone would work to secure his spot in my affections.
Tous les deux,ont vecu assez vieux
Why should any one choose for either one, the both fenomenal, this moderator is crazy trying to pit one against the other.
Well.. they started with that.. just watch it before you comment
Johann Sebastian Bach el único y el mejor de todos los tiempos....
Música sacra barroca.
Exacto después de Beethoven claro