I think there can be a comparison made here between DBD's balance and Magic the Gathering's casual format EDH (commander). The MTG format is an absolute free for all giving players access to nearly every single card ever printed which enables players if they so chose, to combo off and win extremely quickly. The format is entirely balanced by "gentleman's agreements" and social contracts which enables it to be fun. Without proper ranked matchmaking, DBD is in a very similar "free for all" place where both sides can basically determine if they want to hold back and have the match be fun or bring the sweatiest stuff and automatically win. DBD is only truly balanced when both sides "agree" on how hard to sweat which doesn't work all that well. Commander gets away with it because it's a group of people that have conversations about their expectations before a game occurs, but unless DBD matchmaking goes in a very different direction (such as specific ranked queues and restrictions for certain perks / combinations / items etc.) it will always be impossible for both sides to be truly balanced. Somebody is always going to be trying harder than the rest, or gets frustrated and decides to leave, or is trying a fun build, or is doing a quest, or is practicing for the next tournament, etc. etc. The only way for an assymetrical game like DBD to be balanced is if the expectations of the match are equal across all players involved, and that is simply impossible without a fully fleshed out ranking system.
Wait I play commander and I’m trying to understand. Are you saying playing hard meta with nurse/blight is like using the quickest combo decks? Is that the comparison?
Sadly, this has already been solved in the past by having Community Servers. Communities could set those expectations and people would play accordingly. I know this is kind of a "done to death" topic but yeah. Matchmaking gives very fast games, but also gives you a bunch of strangers. Therefore it's kind of a Prisoner's Dilemma about how good or bad the game's gonna go, with no real way to communicate how one wants to play beforehand. I don't think ranks will solve that really, unless those ranks separate players by playstyle instead of how often they "win" at the game.
@@envy7455 Basically. They are saying that playing a OTK combo deck is similar to playing the best killer with the best perks in the sweatiest way. This goes for survivor as well. The only thing stopping someone from running that OTK in most situations is an agreement between players to actually have a fun and balanced game.
@@envy7455 Yeah to add a little more clarification, commander is a format that is policed and dictated socially and on a game by game basis. cEDH is the competitive version of commander where everybody decides to play the most busted combinations of cards just like Otz's example video and just like MTG, very balanced but volatile matches may occur. Because DBD is limited to an open queue with no way of making such agreements, it is a giant mixing pot of every kind of player with every kind of playstyle as if a group of people that played commander took their assortment of decks from power 1 through 10 and just played them at random. This style of "random" matchmaking really holds the game back in my opinion, and as others have said, might only be solved by having a more curated experience through dedicated community servers or my advice of a competitive queue. If everybody in the lobby had the same goals in mind (I am here to play casually vs I am here to win at whatever cost) then DBD has the potential to be fun and exciting with a group of random players. I don't think the balance of DBD could ever be solved across all levels of play without resources for players to find lobbies that suit their desired level of competition.
Something I don't see people mention very often is that for survivors you kind of have to pound gens in the beginning because you don't know what you are going up against. If you don't sweat initially and have no gen progress before the first chase is over super quick you can nearly guarantee the match is lost.
Exactly. That's why as survivor I get really worried when my team isn't on gens in the first 10 seconds because that means if the killer gets a fast down it snowballs from there.
I’ve noticed when all survivor HUD icons aren’t gen progression at start of match, it tends to go bad. While the matches that do, are a breeze. I always wonder what people are doing doing when I do an entire generator at the start and during that entire duration their HUD icon shows not a single action that whole time. Just running around the map or something??? Either way its so strong when all four survivors do separate gens at start. One person will get chased but if they do well enough its 2-3 gen pops at first hook. If someone is bad at running match can snowball after that, or gens just keep flying.
Kinda. going off a match I had. 3 downs back to back to back. Snowball was heavy in my favor but yet they still managed all gens and I only managed a 2k. Why? I had ONE bad chase. Survivors can screw up multiple times and be fine, killer fucks up once and its game over.
@@CaptToilet You got 2 kills, how is that “game over”? And perhaps it wasn’t the bad chase, but maybe the poor decision to chase the last guy in the first place instead of going for hooks. Just food for thought!
@@CaptToiletthe issue is killers can be very nuanced. You could’ve been fucking up the macro strategies like taking the wrong chase, whether it’s a quick or a long one, can be very detrimental to your game.
@@CaptToiletnot entirely. If you make monstrous mistakes as killer than yes but you can learn how to stop a mistake before it happens. Seeing a loop and how it's connected to another loops and leaving is a huge huge thing killers need to learn.
I think that there's another important factor for survivors which is cooperation, if they have good coordination and cooperated greatly, then that would be a game changing even if they don't have good resources and RNG, and I think the factors could change on which side you play.
Usually this can be linked with experience, when you observe really experienced survivors, you can see them doing really high level teamplay moves or even understand other teammates positions without VC sometimes better than average team sitting on Discord call.
@@pharethi1241This. There is nothing more satisfying when playing as survivor than when a killer is camping a hook in endgame and the other survivors just know exactly what to do and bait the hook and take a hit letting someone healthy get it before getting hit, and the last person taking a final hit to ensure everyone gets out. It requires everyone to play a part and know what their doing, but I’ve had it happen a couple decent times. On the flipside nothing is more infuriating then when teammates aren’t on the same wavelength and get in your way and help cause the team’s demise. People can make honest mistakes but I’ve seen too many snowball matches by people being in lala-land lmao.
In a way your teammates are also a result of RNG, in soloQ I mean. In one game you can get an amazing team that kicks the Killers butt and in the next you can get a team that got one gen done in 6 minutes, with two players being on deathhook already.
@@RealEvilLordExdeath “Don’t do something productive with your life,” says the professional hater on hobby discussion videos. No way you didn’t feel goofy after posting that with no likes bro
I would say the experience for running a loop and knowing how a killer works does matter the greatest. I think thats what I see as comparison of me who plays killer and knows the maps vs friends who only play survivor and only when we play as a group. I do tend to have to explain what perks and the new killer does. And these friends don't tend to run loops either. Like not having the sense of where the pallet is to run to safety. Experience factoring map knowledge and these potential pallet spawns and where to expect them.
I wish they had a "reputation" factor that was calculated into matchmaking. I have never disconnected from a game my entire life, I wish I only played with teammates who are the same way. This game is so reliant on team play for the survivor team that just one bad egg can instantly lose you the entire match and waste your time.
@@juicedup14 No I have never been disconnected or chosen to disconnect from a game. Now I don't think leaving a game once in a while (like with emergencies and network problems) should be punished but I also don't think it's fair for players like myself to be matched with other survivors that would happily leave right away. These statistics are easy to track and people who frequently disconnect (regardless of reason) should not be paired with players that never leave games. Edit (for clarity): If you have very frequent network problems you also deserve to be put in a "disconnector" queue because although you may not have poor intentions, leaving a match almost guarantees a loss for your team which is unacceptable in my eyes.
I’ll never understand why randoms kill themselves on hook after a good start, we’ll have games where we get 2 gens done before the first hook and the first survivor down just kills themselves on hook or DC’s
@Lars Liam Vilhelm You're missing my point. I don't expect disconnects to never happen but I don't think players with good gameplay habits should be teamed up with toxic individuals who frequently leave games resulting in forced losses.
@Lars Liam Vilhelm Yeah exactly like that. I like to stay optimisitc about the game because I used to play it very frequently but I return to it less and less due to issues that have been there for years. DBD has a lot of potential and it's sad to see to see it slowly dwindle instead of thrive like many people myself included believe it could.
@@mckookie2967 Sprint Burst has always been superior but for some reason it is underused by mid to low tier players. Mid and below players always used Dead Hard while ultra comp uses more Sprint Burst. edit: competitive dbd is a joke and does not exist, it's a label used by people who don't want to be classified as regular players and merely want to feel special in an unbalanced game while using the most unbalanced builds
I think Scott forgets that the Spirit Match was determined by Ace going into the locker next to the hook. Awakened Awareness won the game. As Otz said you would need waaay more games to even consider this representative.
I do think killer is more stressful than survivor. Partially because Survivor has much more cope built in. The game isn't fair to you in a 1v1 sense (it can't be) and there are 3 other people that can fuck up without it being your fault. The other BIG part imo is that the pacing is just chill in comparison. You have your intense pvp segments, but you also have long stretches where you're doing gens, healing, unhooking and other things that don't involve you being pressured by another human being as much. Compare that to the entirety of killer being vs other people and it's not hard to imagine why a challenging match of killer is more stressful than as survivor.
As a killer you always feel stressed for time, every chase you can feel the gens flying by, and when you cant find anyone, its stressful because you know that some gen is about to pop wherever you aren't.
I think true "no holds barred" tourneys, and all tourneys in general, swing heavily by how we subjectively decide to score them. Different scoring schemes can make it "appear" like one side was better than the other. I think 4ks and 4escapes should rarely if ever happen in tournaments, but the scoring may be weighted towards survivors or killers in the 1-3k range based on what actions/outcomes are and aren't worth points.
8:18 I disagree, if you have all resources in the world with no experience then it's useless, but If Have extra with no resources you are far likey to be better no matter what. I understand your side of the point though. Also I was very confused with the comparison of Blight vs trapper. I thought this was survivors versus killers myths.
16 perks vs 4 perks 4 offerings vs 1 offering The one thing about this game is the offering system, which I think is just unfair before the match even starts. When bad RnG is a thing already, survivors can greatly swing that in their favor with offerings. Basically removing their RnG and creating more for the killer at the same time. The map offering game, lets be real here, the killer more times than not loses that battle if one survivor uses a map offering at the same time as a killer using one. Also being able to stack map offerings in a game with a ton of horrible maps for most killers, basically survivors being able to guarantee a horrible map, is stupid. Survivors have an ability to affect hook placement, hatch location, map selection, and their luck in general while the killer being able only to affect one aspect is one of, if not the most poorly balanced aspect in this game. It's like playing a basketball game and already being down 10 points before the tipoff. I also believe killer can lose pretty frequently while not making mistakes or just being cucked by maps, and/or RnG placement (tiles/hooks/totems). There are moments that happen pretty often where there is no solution or option to where you could've improved the situation. I don't think this game is heavily swayed towards one side, I agree with that, I do think RnG is swayed towards survivors most of the time because they can control it more than the killer can. In that regard it is unfair and can undoubtedly affect the game in a noticeable way. 22:53 this reaction here based on the map really shows you how easy it is for survivor RnG to destroy the killer before the game even starts. He went from saying the killer would win based on the map, to completely the opposite in seconds. Not to say a map is a guaranteed win or loss, but it definitely makes is MUCH more difficult. The fact maps are used as basically another perk is a problem. I think the offering system needs to be tweaked and the maps need a lot of work. EDIT: The discussion at the end he had with his chat confirms most of this. I typed this during the second match.
kill rates went up, especially in solo que due to people killing themselves on hook on the regular. Not very fun when there are killers whom do not require to be close by to camp a hook
My OCD is severely triggered by the fact that the "Pyramid of Balance" is balanced on a single point of a vertex, instead of the infinitely more stable length of one of its sides.
no clue why people are talking about "the game is unbalanced for xxx" lately. its an asymmetrical game, it's literally impossible to be "balanced". Devs and community should accept this and just focus on making the game more fun with more interesting mechanics, killers, and perks
People, if given the option to do so, will always optimize the fun out of games, regardless of how soul-sucking it is. That’s why balance is so important, because people will gravitate toward the most fun playstyles and builds instead of the most efficient and sweaty.
I think this pyramid is pretty much completely correct. Map awareness, tile strategy, movement knowledge, etc are invaluable. Experience can mitigate luck, amplify resources and is essential for sweat..
The main issue with the Otz vid is that he showed that the absolute sweatiest killer builds are balanced against no rules Comp SWF…on the strongest killers in the game. What about the rest of them?
That plus what is involved with actually playing on various levels. The thing that makes comp survivors so strong is coordination, which isn't really available without external tools. And it doesn't matter how sweaty one, two, maybe even three survivors play if the other one is weaker, doesn't bring the strongest stuff, or just makes a couple bad mistakes. Meanwhile, on the killer side, the sweatiest and most effective strategies are camping and tunnelling, which take very, very little skill to execute on, and can be done by even the weakest killer, but take exponentially more gamesense, skill, and coordination to counter from the survivor side.
@@arcarc2663 I don’t really agree, when it comes to playing comp DBD it takes a ton of game sense on both sides. I’d accept that getting four people who work well under pressure together is harder tho.
@@Name-ql7jf comp dbd sure there’s strats, for the game to be killer sided the killer just needs to tunnel/camp which takes no skill, the it to be survivor sided there needs to be a 4 man swf bringing the strongest shit, which is much rarer and harder to pull off then just tunneling solo q
@@M4XXXXXXXX Scott himself has said on multiple occasions that the whole “tunnel and camp = win” narrative isn’t true. I think the important distinction here is that as soon as solo queue is involved, throw everything out the window, cause the game 100% is killer sided vs solos. But against 3 or 4 man SWF I think it’s more or less balanced IF surv/killer bring roughly equal loadouts. Buff solo queue more + buff weak killers
Experience also helps players identify what resources they need. Not all players watch content creators to know what the meta perks/add ons are, and while it may seem obvious, it isn’t necessarily to someone just playing the game. If you are just playing the game, then it will take you a long time to learn all the perks, add ons, other resources AND to unlock them. That’s another point that would suggest experience is more valuable than resources.
i think the game is balanced, but players, killers and survivors, can completely bypass the balance with how they play. pre-drop every pallet as survivor, run to a corner when you hear tr, etc. and then as killer you can tunnel even WITH all the anti-tunneling in the game, not to mention camping, 3genning, etc. as it's been said before, if one side does their best to win, the other side HAS to also do their best, or they stand no chance.
This is why the first chase is so incredibly crucial. If it’s short, that opens up the ability to tunnel. If it’s long, you’ll likely lose as killer even if you camp and tunnel. ESPECIALLY with reassurance.
@@FinalBoy99 where did i imply that they weren't going to use gen perks, even aside from that of course you can hold a 3 gen, but unless you're playing a killer that can actually down people, it's just a matter of time before you lose anyway
I think kill rates have gone up, every time survivors have one of their more meta perks nerfed it takes like a month for them to get back to learning the new meta. Like when dead hard got nerfed, now its circle.
@@KarlDelaney99 Inner healing or bond is a pretty important perk choice. If you're confident being injured, sprint burst is good enough. A medkit with 1.5 heals with Built to Last can give you 4 heals, assuming you hit great skill checks and killer doesn't have sloppy/hemorrhage.
42:10 I would argue that while bringing and having the styptic qualifies it as a resource, having the game knowledge and skill needed to know to use it to extend the first chase against blight rather than later in the match and successfully pull it off is more important. So I think that the reason Otz put experience above resources, is because the use of a resource and how impactful a survivor is capable of playing without a resource is more important than having or not having the resources in the first place. Sorry if this was redundant/rambling.
Scott: RNG isn't that much of a factor Also Scott minutes later: "It's interesting how much the map is a determining factor of guess how the map is gonna go immediately." I just think its fun how the map is ALWAYS the issue with the game. I remember playing in the age of infinites and vacuums and insta-blinds. But to be productive and add something to the conversation: Resources>>Experience>RNG=Mindset.
I can't believe anyone in the right mind would go off the "Statistics". Not only they are inflated to hell and back due to new players getting absolutely stomped, but also syringes and BNPs that hugely skew the stats. We clearly know from devs that 75% of survivors are always playing in teams (SWFs), so that alone should give us the hint that whatever "Stats" show is highly influenced by that 25% of SoloQ survivors. So going by stats doesn't only hurt the killer role, but also the SoloQ, because it paints an unfaithful image of the current environment.
I left this comment on Otz's video and I'll say it again after playing many Asymmetrical multiplayer games I've come to the conclusion that when it comes to the 1 person vs a team styled games if the 1 person knows what they're doing, plays well, and doesn't make many if any mistakes they will win the majority of the time.
The perkless depip squad experiment is an interesting example of how experience and mindset can be overwhelming when the opposition is (most of the time) not on the same level, even with better RNG and resources.
I think they atleast went up a little because where they don't have he slow downs they now tunnel a survivor out as quickly as possible to slow the game down that way.
Honestly depending on the map i would honestly put experience on the bottom or 2nd to the bottom of this pyramid and just throw resources and rng at the top because like there are maps that just quite literally play themselves for both sides. i do think there are maps for survivors naturally like any cowshed map red forests and so on so forth but like if a survivor goes to these maps they arguably really dont need experience really at all because those maps are so ungodly unbalanced for them to where you really just drop pallet and killer has to kick otherwise you just leave and find the next pallet and potentially loop back to any of those pallets but again this can sweep over to killer as well where if you get a map that has practically no pallets and such for survivor killer now doesnt need as much experience so again the map plays for you. i do think for this game unless there is a constant killer favored map being played, survivors dont arguably ever to learn because they control what map you go to if they really wanted to but that also leans more into potential swf which is another topic on its own but if survivors want to send you to the worst map possible for killer they will send you and there experience they need will forever be on the low side since again you dont need experience to run these maps as a survivor or at the very least a little bit of experience
The only way mistakes can be ignored is if you have the skill to recover from that mistake. So for the killer it seems like you can make no mistakes because of the asymmetrical nature, there can be more than one survivor to help during that mistake
Really, my issue is that the game just isn't fun. It just feels like with each update they do, they destroy a playstyle for both sides rather than buff another kind of playstyle to be as viable alongside another. It comes down to games feeling samey because the devs decided "this is the way you're going to play" for the next few months. This is why I dislike game development that adhere too much to "meta" rather than figure out "hey, let's make a healer build be just as potent as a repair build" or a "chaser build just as potent as a 3 gen build"
One of the big things in the Mindset tier is whether or not you're just trying to do a daily ritual or a tome challenge. You will likely play sweatier if you have the Mori daily, Mors Ambito I think, because you're basically using a Mori to get the chance to complete it. Or if you have to like...kick 6 gens in a single match, or hit two Survivors with Plague's upgraded puke in a single puke, twice in a match. You will either be super chill, or you'll be forced to sweat.
My pyramid would be: 1. Experience - depending on what hand you’re dealt you can adjust your playstyle accordingly. 2. Mindset - you can choose to be sweaty by using your experience or bring the best items (resources) it doesn’t matter what you bring though if you don’t know how to use it, which is why experience is first. 3. Resources - Maps, items, add ons, and the killer you choose to bring into the game will be the factor to how the balance of that trial will be. (It can be manipulated which is why it’s at the end) Rng is apart of resources so I wouldn’t even count it.
I genuinely think on the pyramid too that Resources affect my mindset the most. In Comp you need to be 101% in a focused mindset but even still under that pressure if you get your first down denied by a styptic that is an absolutely huge mental blow. I think the 100% moment that sealed the deal was that second styptic too. I can feel the blights defeat and he even goes on to miss hooking. Thats a rookie mistake that shows his mindset was off. Furthers your point of suggesting resources are first
I'm no master Blight, but he did seem to make a few mistakes to me. He greeded for a scourge hook, he had to go through a god pallet to reach it which was just a bad idea against these survivors. So that lost him a hook and pressure. Also idk, he did just seem to get stunned a lot, Im not sure if that's him miss playing or the survivors getting lucky. Honestly I think the Blight just had a unoptimized build, since it was entirely focused on Scourge Hooks. Scourge Hook perks are good but it just didnt work out for him. Corrupt and Pain Res are fine enough perks to use in this situation, however Floods of Rage and Gift of Pain seem like bad picks. Maybe if he had enduring/spirit fury things could have gone better. His strategy seems to involve running into pallets a lot, which runs the risk of being stunned. Since he can break pallets so quickly, he would be able to get his spirit fury fast. I know those are weird perks for a Blight to use, but maybe that could of made the difference.
Also keep in mind the version of the game, the balance of the game when old deadhard and old ds and old OoO was around is a way different balance than the current version
You can really feel that this video's a year old lol. I would love to see this revisited for modern DBD, where you basically get a win screen for just queueing as survivor.
Experience is more important than Resources, because you need experience to know where pallets are and how the maps can be run best. Or even when best to use your med-kit and heal etc.
I think I've realized something that can help killers and survivors have more fun in a match. Simply put, just don't sweat so much. But in more complex terms, play the game like it's a survival horror game. As a survivor, be immersed, be afraid of the killer, try cool plays, and over all play like you can just respawn, cause you can. As a killer, play like you are the obstacle for the survivors to overcome. Play to challenge them and to act like the big bad. You aren't there to make them suffer, you're there to be a challenge so they have fun. Think about it this was. The survivors are the adventures in a DND game. The killer is the dm. The dms job isn't to punish the adventures, it's to provide obstacles. And the adventures job isn't to min max and overwhelm their poor dm, it to have fun and tell a story. In the end, balance doesn't matter if both sides are just playing so everyone can have fun.
I have tried this. It's fun untill you get absolutely cracked survivors who tea bag at the exit gate, and asshole tunneling and camping killers who play to make you miserable.
to be honest, in my opinion, experience still should be on the top of the pyramid. When I was a new-ish player in DbD, I took an L against 2 Survivors with no perks at all (but flashlights), but they had like 500 hours while I had like 10.
I like your comment on gauging difficulty and acting accordingly. I do this as killer, but I do it by looking at the skill of the survivors. I don't go for kills, I go for hooks. My goal is that there is a good BP spread amongst all players by the end and I've gotten good hauls with simply hooking everyone twice. Pseudo farming to some extent, but it does mean everyone gets a turn/chance to shine. So if I go in and the survivors are seal pups, I'm gonna ease on the throttle. One sided games aren't fun. Extra edit, all three are linked. Experience can determine what resources are worth bringing. But your mindset can also determine how sweaty your loadout will be.
I think also exposed cut some of the chases by half, maybe not as impactful as the blight getting fucked over by the styptic, but it stops them from getting to main
So just as an anecdote, I've been a surv main for most of my dbd career. the couple of MONTHS I played killer, I only played Onryo. I used her three main perks and I think sloppy butcher. I barely used her better add ons as well. No exaggeration, I think I only had three or four matches where I didn't get a 4k or purposefully let the last survivor go after downing them. I was playing somewhere around 10-15 games a week as killer. Literally no prior killer experience, I started getting 4ks right off the bat, and steam rolling teams that I could tell were on coms even. It just depends on a lot of factors, but I feel like as a killer you can rely much more heavily on strategy, and not have to worry about teammates not playing optimally. You always have the opportunity to recover as a killer, and the game is never 100% out of control if you play well. That was just my experience on public games as a killer vs solo que though, so take it with a grain of salt.
The map itself is a resource indeed. 'The Game' for example. Against most m1 killers its a strong advantage for survivors. Now be against a stealth build suddenly all thoes high walls favor killer. Or against doc and suddenly the small size and 2 floors work against you~ Which is a big reason map offerings are so strong. It kinda takes a big chunk of that 'RNG' slice and adds it to the 'resources' slice. Scratched Mirror Myers? A Map offering is basically a 5'th perk.
I see so many people in his chat going "well wraith doesn't have those resources" or "make a pyramid for every killer" without realising that the killers are already in the pyramid. They are *resources*. And what killer you play is a choice of what resources you bring into the map, just the same as perks or add-ons.
Just want to say, I feel like resources that appear in a map (pallet locations, window locations, gen locations, etc.) fall under experience and not resources. I think the idea of the resources category in this context is what you being to the match yourself. Perks, items, addons, map offerings, those are variables that can be changed and can’t be predicted by anyone else in the map. Those are variables that the players have to on the fly adapt to as they learn they are present in the match. But the things that spawn on the map? The second it loads you can already make a game plan because while there is some RNG variance to them, your experience with playing these maps lets you be aware of what’s around you and make plays in the possible coming seconds. You don’t bring those pallets to the map, so they’re not a resource. They are a persistent existing thing that through playing the game and the experience you build up you can take advantage of.
Food for thought pig had been put into an amazing situation this patch. The reason behind this is pig has always struggled at punishing survivors that have a good presence of mind, however with this patch more survivors stay injured/ waste a lot of time healing giving her massive potential to get full use out of her reverse bear traps. with the right builds you can pressure 3 or all survivors off of gens for more than 5 minutes without the need of any overly powerful perks using a half decent build she can easily and consistently snowball. Plus because you are playing pig more players tend to stick with the match I rarely get dc's and can get 11/12 hook games and they tend to be incredibly fun.
Something that I thought was common knowledge is that, at least for killer, Nearly everything is dependent on which killer you are playing. Nurse? Experience is about all that matters Trapper? RNG is gonna matter the most.
I believe that another factor that was in play were the bligh's and spirit's addons and how it worked around their builds. While the spirit got use for pretty much all of them the blight just got little value from two of them. This might be a hot take, but i don't feel like corrupt is great perk on killers that can have a fast early down and lethal persuer or deadlock(even if it's a mid gane perk) are nicer options on that regard. Also as powerfull as blight and his addons can be, some maps can make his bump logic pretty unconsistent and make some turns more unpredictable and unreliable.
The biggest issue with this game is that the resources *are the RNG* You have no way of knowing what killer, addons, items or map you will be playing against, and this is horrible. And not just for "competitiveness" but for overall fun too.
Lery's and styptics screw Blight pretty hard. Spirit, I feel, is less map dependent. As a killer main, decisive strike still can literally win games for survivors. Underrated perk.
I thought this patch would make playing survivors super unplayable but I haven't really noticed any difference. One charge out of a medkit is plenty usually and getting 2 heals+ out of a single medkit and the self heal time increase I even forget about. This update has not been anywhere near as bad as I thought it'd be.
Ds doesn't get value if you go down in a tile, ds is strong when you go down before a tile. Get the stun, get to your next resource, otherwise either you're going down next to your resource which, why, or you are in a dead zone and you'll just go down again. It's so situational there's rarely a point.
Adding to this discussion super late: RNG and resources are tied more tightly in a lot of ways - mainly, many resources one side brings are functionally RNG to the other side(map offerings, add-ons, etc). If a survivor brings a garden of joy offering, is that RNG or resources? Well it's definitely resources, but if they killer had known ahead of time they could have broughy appropriate add-ons/perks, so from their perspective it's RNG... You bring resources to curb the RNG in your favor, kind of.
0:52 No shot. Twitch chat is just pulling numbers out of their asses. I personally haven't noticed a change and get killed every game and always am 4 man outed.
11:45 But why would someone not play the same way in a easier compared to a harder map? Why only play well in a difficult map if you can play at your best in both situations?
If we are doing to say that one of the biggest factors were the maps that they played on, but also talk about recourses then is there any reason to not consider map offerings as resources?
Lery's is technically harder for Blight but as someone who played Blight as my main the maneuverability on maps like Lery's and RPD is actually not as as bad as people think. You can actually do real work on those maps. Also accounting for hug teching and bounce logic combo.
Looking like a villain with the cat in the lap just petting slowly
Good looking villain tho
@@djselmani8586 the cat carry’s the look
Vile Scott pets again!
I was thinking about commenting the same thing
He's thinking about which card to pull to bring this house down.
Scott going into his asmongold phase of reacting to stuff and turning 20 min videoes into 50 min videoes is very exiting!
His hairline is next
@@Lickwit LOL outta pocket for that one 💀
Actually banger comparison lol. They share similar vibes.
as long as his takes don't turn to shit as well that's fine
Exiting? He didn't exit he stayed the entire video.
Scott is so adept in his petting skills that he can perfectly articulate his opinions while casually giving the kitty the snuggliest day of her life.
At least his cat wants to be loved 🙄
I think there can be a comparison made here between DBD's balance and Magic the Gathering's casual format EDH (commander). The MTG format is an absolute free for all giving players access to nearly every single card ever printed which enables players if they so chose, to combo off and win extremely quickly. The format is entirely balanced by "gentleman's agreements" and social contracts which enables it to be fun. Without proper ranked matchmaking, DBD is in a very similar "free for all" place where both sides can basically determine if they want to hold back and have the match be fun or bring the sweatiest stuff and automatically win. DBD is only truly balanced when both sides "agree" on how hard to sweat which doesn't work all that well. Commander gets away with it because it's a group of people that have conversations about their expectations before a game occurs, but unless DBD matchmaking goes in a very different direction (such as specific ranked queues and restrictions for certain perks / combinations / items etc.) it will always be impossible for both sides to be truly balanced. Somebody is always going to be trying harder than the rest, or gets frustrated and decides to leave, or is trying a fun build, or is doing a quest, or is practicing for the next tournament, etc. etc. The only way for an assymetrical game like DBD to be balanced is if the expectations of the match are equal across all players involved, and that is simply impossible without a fully fleshed out ranking system.
Wait I play commander and I’m trying to understand. Are you saying playing hard meta with nurse/blight is like using the quickest combo decks? Is that the comparison?
Sadly, this has already been solved in the past by having Community Servers. Communities could set those expectations and people would play accordingly.
I know this is kind of a "done to death" topic but yeah. Matchmaking gives very fast games, but also gives you a bunch of strangers. Therefore it's kind of a Prisoner's Dilemma about how good or bad the game's gonna go, with no real way to communicate how one wants to play beforehand.
I don't think ranks will solve that really, unless those ranks separate players by playstyle instead of how often they "win" at the game.
@@envy7455 Basically. They are saying that playing a OTK combo deck is similar to playing the best killer with the best perks in the sweatiest way. This goes for survivor as well.
The only thing stopping someone from running that OTK in most situations is an agreement between players to actually have a fun and balanced game.
I am not reading all that but I agree.
@@envy7455 Yeah to add a little more clarification, commander is a format that is policed and dictated socially and on a game by game basis. cEDH is the competitive version of commander where everybody decides to play the most busted combinations of cards just like Otz's example video and just like MTG, very balanced but volatile matches may occur. Because DBD is limited to an open queue with no way of making such agreements, it is a giant mixing pot of every kind of player with every kind of playstyle as if a group of people that played commander took their assortment of decks from power 1 through 10 and just played them at random. This style of "random" matchmaking really holds the game back in my opinion, and as others have said, might only be solved by having a more curated experience through dedicated community servers or my advice of a competitive queue. If everybody in the lobby had the same goals in mind (I am here to play casually vs I am here to win at whatever cost) then DBD has the potential to be fun and exciting with a group of random players. I don't think the balance of DBD could ever be solved across all levels of play without resources for players to find lobbies that suit their desired level of competition.
Something I don't see people mention very often is that for survivors you kind of have to pound gens in the beginning because you don't know what you are going up against. If you don't sweat initially and have no gen progress before the first chase is over super quick you can nearly guarantee the match is lost.
Exactly. That's why as survivor I get really worried when my team isn't on gens in the first 10 seconds because that means if the killer gets a fast down it snowballs from there.
I’ve noticed when all survivor HUD icons aren’t gen progression at start of match, it tends to go bad. While the matches that do, are a breeze. I always wonder what people are doing doing when I do an entire generator at the start and during that entire duration their HUD icon shows not a single action that whole time. Just running around the map or something???
Either way its so strong when all four survivors do separate gens at start. One person will get chased but if they do well enough its 2-3 gen pops at first hook. If someone is bad at running match can snowball after that, or gens just keep flying.
Unfortunately with the way spawns work, it's possible to spawn in a part of the map with no gens. Happens to me sometimes
the first 2 minutes/ first couple killer-survivor interactions pretty much told you how each match is going. snowball so crucial for killers.
Kinda. going off a match I had. 3 downs back to back to back. Snowball was heavy in my favor but yet they still managed all gens and I only managed a 2k. Why? I had ONE bad chase. Survivors can screw up multiple times and be fine, killer fucks up once and its game over.
Idk I’ve found the game doesn’t really start till you are at 3 gens against good survivors .
@@CaptToilet You got 2 kills, how is that “game over”? And perhaps it wasn’t the bad chase, but maybe the poor decision to chase the last guy in the first place instead of going for hooks. Just food for thought!
@@CaptToiletthe issue is killers can be very nuanced. You could’ve been fucking up the macro strategies like taking the wrong chase, whether it’s a quick or a long one, can be very detrimental to your game.
@@CaptToiletnot entirely. If you make monstrous mistakes as killer than yes but you can learn how to stop a mistake before it happens. Seeing a loop and how it's connected to another loops and leaving is a huge huge thing killers need to learn.
49:57 The PAIN and helplessness in that sentence is so real.
I think that there's another important factor for survivors which is cooperation, if they have good coordination and cooperated greatly, then that would be a game changing even if they don't have good resources and RNG, and I think the factors could change on which side you play.
Usually this can be linked with experience, when you observe really experienced survivors, you can see them doing really high level teamplay moves or even understand other teammates positions without VC sometimes better than average team sitting on Discord call.
@@pharethi1241This. There is nothing more satisfying when playing as survivor than when a killer is camping a hook in endgame and the other survivors just know exactly what to do and bait the hook and take a hit letting someone healthy get it before getting hit, and the last person taking a final hit to ensure everyone gets out. It requires everyone to play a part and know what their doing, but I’ve had it happen a couple decent times.
On the flipside nothing is more infuriating then when teammates aren’t on the same wavelength and get in your way and help cause the team’s demise. People can make honest mistakes but I’ve seen too many snowball matches by people being in lala-land lmao.
That might fall under resources, as your bringing your friends into the match. (I know it's a stretch)
@@JRDeBo I don’t think Otz’s pyramid is perfect it’s more complicated and not quite accurate, but it can be discussed by the community and improved.
In a way your teammates are also a result of RNG, in soloQ I mean.
In one game you can get an amazing team that kicks the Killers butt and in the next you can get a team that got one gen done in 6 minutes, with two players being on deathhook already.
Thank you so much for these long videos. These are like podcasts for me in the morning and after work.
Yeah, dont do something productive with your life
@@RealEvilLordExdeath “Don’t do something productive with your life,” says the professional hater on hobby discussion videos. No way you didn’t feel goofy after posting that with no likes bro
I would say the experience for running a loop and knowing how a killer works does matter the greatest. I think thats what I see as comparison of me who plays killer and knows the maps vs friends who only play survivor and only when we play as a group. I do tend to have to explain what perks and the new killer does. And these friends don't tend to run loops either. Like not having the sense of where the pallet is to run to safety.
Experience factoring map knowledge and these potential pallet spawns and where to expect them.
the lower the experience, the higher its impact
I wish they had a "reputation" factor that was calculated into matchmaking. I have never disconnected from a game my entire life, I wish I only played with teammates who are the same way. This game is so reliant on team play for the survivor team that just one bad egg can instantly lose you the entire match and waste your time.
Your net never cut out?
Because it would consider you a DCer if it has, and would make the system unusable.
@@juicedup14 No I have never been disconnected or chosen to disconnect from a game. Now I don't think leaving a game once in a while (like with emergencies and network problems) should be punished but I also don't think it's fair for players like myself to be matched with other survivors that would happily leave right away. These statistics are easy to track and people who frequently disconnect (regardless of reason) should not be paired with players that never leave games.
Edit (for clarity): If you have very frequent network problems you also deserve to be put in a "disconnector" queue because although you may not have poor intentions, leaving a match almost guarantees a loss for your team which is unacceptable in my eyes.
I’ll never understand why randoms kill themselves on hook after a good start, we’ll have games where we get 2 gens done before the first hook and the first survivor down just kills themselves on hook or DC’s
@Lars Liam Vilhelm You're missing my point. I don't expect disconnects to never happen but I don't think players with good gameplay habits should be teamed up with toxic individuals who frequently leave games resulting in forced losses.
@Lars Liam Vilhelm Yeah exactly like that. I like to stay optimisitc about the game because I used to play it very frequently but I return to it less and less due to issues that have been there for years. DBD has a lot of potential and it's sad to see to see it slowly dwindle instead of thrive like many people myself included believe it could.
Showing gameplay footage of Hawkins is like showing me a photograph of a dead loved one. I miss Hawkins :(
Well you would be glad now
I want him to do a no addon/perk experiment to compare his findings.
he did just that ua-cam.com/video/B0sr-m6fcNs/v-deo.html
He did this already, the results backed his Resources > Experience assessment
I honestly think the kill rates have gone up from the dead hard nerf, more killers tunneling and survivors throwing the game on hook
Anyone who says the game is survivor-sided is dead wrong. I’ve been consistently 4king with 3+ gens left
@@stood6488 MMR doesn't work, if it did you would get 2 kills regularly like comp.
The game is not balanced but it is in a good place now.
naw the good players swapped to Sprint burst a long time ago lol
@@mckookie2967 Sprint Burst has always been superior but for some reason it is underused by mid to low tier players.
Mid and below players always used Dead Hard while ultra comp uses more Sprint Burst.
edit: competitive dbd is a joke and does not exist, it's a label used by people who don't want to be classified as regular players and merely want to feel special in an unbalanced game while using the most unbalanced builds
It's gone up for be because survivors either littrely throw themselves at me or they can't loop without DH and go down fast
This video feels like a DBD scholarly discussion. As if their individual theories and pyramids will be taught in textbooks
I think Scott forgets that the Spirit Match was determined by Ace going into the locker next to the hook. Awakened Awareness won the game. As Otz said you would need waaay more games to even consider this representative.
Loving this Scott Podcast
Scodtcast
I do think killer is more stressful than survivor. Partially because Survivor has much more cope built in. The game isn't fair to you in a 1v1 sense (it can't be) and there are 3 other people that can fuck up without it being your fault. The other BIG part imo is that the pacing is just chill in comparison. You have your intense pvp segments, but you also have long stretches where you're doing gens, healing, unhooking and other things that don't involve you being pressured by another human being as much. Compare that to the entirety of killer being vs other people and it's not hard to imagine why a challenging match of killer is more stressful than as survivor.
As a killer you always feel stressed for time, every chase you can feel the gens flying by, and when you cant find anyone, its stressful because you know that some gen is about to pop wherever you aren't.
I think true "no holds barred" tourneys, and all tourneys in general, swing heavily by how we subjectively decide to score them. Different scoring schemes can make it "appear" like one side was better than the other. I think 4ks and 4escapes should rarely if ever happen in tournaments, but the scoring may be weighted towards survivors or killers in the 1-3k range based on what actions/outcomes are and aren't worth points.
8:18 I disagree, if you have all resources in the world with no experience then it's useless, but If Have extra with no resources you are far likey to be better no matter what. I understand your side of the point though.
Also I was very confused with the comparison of Blight vs trapper. I thought this was survivors versus killers myths.
16 perks vs 4 perks
4 offerings vs 1 offering
The one thing about this game is the offering system, which I think is just unfair before the match even starts. When bad RnG is a thing already, survivors can greatly swing that in their favor with offerings. Basically removing their RnG and creating more for the killer at the same time. The map offering game, lets be real here, the killer more times than not loses that battle if one survivor uses a map offering at the same time as a killer using one. Also being able to stack map offerings in a game with a ton of horrible maps for most killers, basically survivors being able to guarantee a horrible map, is stupid. Survivors have an ability to affect hook placement, hatch location, map selection, and their luck in general while the killer being able only to affect one aspect is one of, if not the most poorly balanced aspect in this game. It's like playing a basketball game and already being down 10 points before the tipoff.
I also believe killer can lose pretty frequently while not making mistakes or just being cucked by maps, and/or RnG placement (tiles/hooks/totems). There are moments that happen pretty often where there is no solution or option to where you could've improved the situation.
I don't think this game is heavily swayed towards one side, I agree with that, I do think RnG is swayed towards survivors most of the time because they can control it more than the killer can. In that regard it is unfair and can undoubtedly affect the game in a noticeable way.
22:53 this reaction here based on the map really shows you how easy it is for survivor RnG to destroy the killer before the game even starts. He went from saying the killer would win based on the map, to completely the opposite in seconds.
Not to say a map is a guaranteed win or loss, but it definitely makes is MUCH more difficult. The fact maps are used as basically another perk is a problem. I think the offering system needs to be tweaked and the maps need a lot of work.
EDIT: The discussion at the end he had with his chat confirms most of this. I typed this during the second match.
Love these types of videos Scott. I love any type of discussions you do
Scott dude please keep doing the long podcast style videos, love this man
kill rates went up, especially in solo que due to people killing themselves on hook on the regular. Not very fun when there are killers whom do not require to be close by to camp a hook
My OCD is severely triggered by the fact that the "Pyramid of Balance" is balanced on a single point of a vertex, instead of the infinitely more stable length of one of its sides.
But it's symbolic of how the game is only stable from how many people are addicted to it rather than things like good design
Most of that back and forth about the pyramid can be summed up by the axiom: "All models are wrong, but some are useful."
no clue why people are talking about "the game is unbalanced for xxx" lately. its an asymmetrical game, it's literally impossible to be "balanced". Devs and community should accept this and just focus on making the game more fun with more interesting mechanics, killers, and perks
True, as long as the game is fun who cares about balance
People, if given the option to do so, will always optimize the fun out of games, regardless of how soul-sucking it is. That’s why balance is so important, because people will gravitate toward the most fun playstyles and builds instead of the most efficient and sweaty.
I think this pyramid is pretty much completely correct. Map awareness, tile strategy, movement knowledge, etc are invaluable. Experience can mitigate luck, amplify resources and is essential for sweat..
The main issue with the Otz vid is that he showed that the absolute sweatiest killer builds are balanced against no rules Comp SWF…on the strongest killers in the game.
What about the rest of them?
That plus what is involved with actually playing on various levels. The thing that makes comp survivors so strong is coordination, which isn't really available without external tools. And it doesn't matter how sweaty one, two, maybe even three survivors play if the other one is weaker, doesn't bring the strongest stuff, or just makes a couple bad mistakes.
Meanwhile, on the killer side, the sweatiest and most effective strategies are camping and tunnelling, which take very, very little skill to execute on, and can be done by even the weakest killer, but take exponentially more gamesense, skill, and coordination to counter from the survivor side.
@@arcarc2663 I don’t really agree, when it comes to playing comp DBD it takes a ton of game sense on both sides. I’d accept that getting four people who work well under pressure together is harder tho.
@@arcarc2663 this
@@Name-ql7jf comp dbd sure there’s strats, for the game to be killer sided the killer just needs to tunnel/camp which takes no skill, the it to be survivor sided there needs to be a 4 man swf bringing the strongest shit, which is much rarer and harder to pull off then just tunneling solo q
@@M4XXXXXXXX Scott himself has said on multiple occasions that the whole “tunnel and camp = win” narrative isn’t true.
I think the important distinction here is that as soon as solo queue is involved, throw everything out the window, cause the game 100% is killer sided vs solos. But against 3 or 4 man SWF I think it’s more or less balanced IF surv/killer bring roughly equal loadouts.
Buff solo queue more + buff weak killers
The worst part of dbd balance is that i can never get matches where both sides could win.
it always feels like you stomp or get stomped.
Experience also helps players identify what resources they need. Not all players watch content creators to know what the meta perks/add ons are, and while it may seem obvious, it isn’t necessarily to someone just playing the game. If you are just playing the game, then it will take you a long time to learn all the perks, add ons, other resources AND to unlock them. That’s another point that would suggest experience is more valuable than resources.
i think the game is balanced, but players, killers and survivors, can completely bypass the balance with how they play.
pre-drop every pallet as survivor, run to a corner when you hear tr, etc.
and then as killer you can tunnel even WITH all the anti-tunneling in the game, not to mention camping, 3genning, etc.
as it's been said before, if one side does their best to win, the other side HAS to also do their best, or they stand no chance.
I didn’t think of anything else to put it but this exactly, very well put!
Can you still hold a 3gen without Gen kick perks?
This is why the first chase is so incredibly crucial. If it’s short, that opens up the ability to tunnel. If it’s long, you’ll likely lose as killer even if you camp and tunnel. ESPECIALLY with reassurance.
@@FinalBoy99 where did i imply that they weren't going to use gen perks, even aside from that of course you can hold a 3 gen, but unless you're playing a killer that can actually down people, it's just a matter of time before you lose anyway
Y'all have the best discussions whenever I'm unable to actually play DBD
I think kill rates have gone up, every time survivors have one of their more meta perks nerfed it takes like a month for them to get back to learning the new meta. Like when dead hard got nerfed, now its circle.
No one's using circle in my game, can't even get a heal from anyone 😂
@@KarlDelaney99 Inner healing or bond is a pretty important perk choice. If you're confident being injured, sprint burst is good enough. A medkit with 1.5 heals with Built to Last can give you 4 heals, assuming you hit great skill checks and killer doesn't have sloppy/hemorrhage.
42:10 I would argue that while bringing and having the styptic qualifies it as a resource, having the game knowledge and skill needed to know to use it to extend the first chase against blight rather than later in the match and successfully pull it off is more important. So I think that the reason Otz put experience above resources, is because the use of a resource and how impactful a survivor is capable of playing without a resource is more important than having or not having the resources in the first place.
Sorry if this was redundant/rambling.
D: I might rewatch to see if the "am I dog" part is preserved somewhere but if it's not, anyone who wasnt there for this stream, go watch it
Scott: RNG isn't that much of a factor
Also Scott minutes later: "It's interesting how much the map is a determining factor of guess how the map is gonna go immediately."
I just think its fun how the map is ALWAYS the issue with the game. I remember playing in the age of infinites and vacuums and insta-blinds. But to be productive and add something to the conversation: Resources>>Experience>RNG=Mindset.
I can't believe anyone in the right mind would go off the "Statistics". Not only they are inflated to hell and back due to new players getting absolutely stomped, but also syringes and BNPs that hugely skew the stats. We clearly know from devs that 75% of survivors are always playing in teams (SWFs), so that alone should give us the hint that whatever "Stats" show is highly influenced by that 25% of SoloQ survivors. So going by stats doesn't only hurt the killer role, but also the SoloQ, because it paints an unfaithful image of the current environment.
The fact that this 50 min video reacting to a 20 min Otz video was all just an elaborate Magic Bullet ad was impressive.
Every 10 minutes I was wiping my screen trying to get gunk off it but then I realised it was that thing on Scott's forehead
This video just proves this game is a shambles
I left this comment on Otz's video and I'll say it again after playing many Asymmetrical multiplayer games I've come to the conclusion that when it comes to the 1 person vs a team styled games if the 1 person knows what they're doing, plays well, and doesn't make many if any mistakes they will win the majority of the time.
The perkless depip squad experiment is an interesting example of how experience and mindset can be overwhelming when the opposition is (most of the time) not on the same level, even with better RNG and resources.
I think they atleast went up a little because where they don't have he slow downs they now tunnel a survivor out as quickly as possible to slow the game down that way.
Honestly depending on the map i would honestly put experience on the bottom or 2nd to the bottom of this pyramid and just throw resources and rng at the top because like there are maps that just quite literally play themselves for both sides. i do think there are maps for survivors naturally like any cowshed map red forests and so on so forth but like if a survivor goes to these maps they arguably really dont need experience really at all because those maps are so ungodly unbalanced for them to where you really just drop pallet and killer has to kick otherwise you just leave and find the next pallet and potentially loop back to any of those pallets but again this can sweep over to killer as well where if you get a map that has practically no pallets and such for survivor killer now doesnt need as much experience so again the map plays for you. i do think for this game unless there is a constant killer favored map being played, survivors dont arguably ever to learn because they control what map you go to if they really wanted to but that also leans more into potential swf which is another topic on its own but if survivors want to send you to the worst map possible for killer they will send you and there experience they need will forever be on the low side since again you dont need experience to run these maps as a survivor or at the very least a little bit of experience
just as i was about to do homework too, praise be
The only way mistakes can be ignored is if you have the skill to recover from that mistake. So for the killer it seems like you can make no mistakes because of the asymmetrical nature, there can be more than one survivor to help during that mistake
A VOD UPLOAD? POG
Really, my issue is that the game just isn't fun. It just feels like with each update they do, they destroy a playstyle for both sides rather than buff another kind of playstyle to be as viable alongside another. It comes down to games feeling samey because the devs decided "this is the way you're going to play" for the next few months. This is why I dislike game development that adhere too much to "meta" rather than figure out "hey, let's make a healer build be just as potent as a repair build" or a "chaser build just as potent as a 3 gen build"
One of the big things in the Mindset tier is whether or not you're just trying to do a daily ritual or a tome challenge. You will likely play sweatier if you have the Mori daily, Mors Ambito I think, because you're basically using a Mori to get the chance to complete it. Or if you have to like...kick 6 gens in a single match, or hit two Survivors with Plague's upgraded puke in a single puke, twice in a match. You will either be super chill, or you'll be forced to sweat.
My pyramid would be:
1. Experience - depending on what hand you’re dealt you can adjust your playstyle accordingly.
2. Mindset - you can choose to be sweaty by using your experience or bring the best items (resources) it doesn’t matter what you bring though if you don’t know how to use it, which is why experience is first.
3. Resources - Maps, items, add ons, and the killer you choose to bring into the game will be the factor to how the balance of that trial will be. (It can be manipulated which is why it’s at the end)
Rng is apart of resources so I wouldn’t even count it.
I genuinely think on the pyramid too that Resources affect my mindset the most. In Comp you need to be 101% in a focused mindset but even still under that pressure if you get your first down denied by a styptic that is an absolutely huge mental blow. I think the 100% moment that sealed the deal was that second styptic too. I can feel the blights defeat and he even goes on to miss hooking. Thats a rookie mistake that shows his mindset was off.
Furthers your point of suggesting resources are first
I feel like "kills" have gone up, so long as you consider disconnects as kills as well.
I'm no master Blight, but he did seem to make a few mistakes to me. He greeded for a scourge hook, he had to go through a god pallet to reach it which was just a bad idea against these survivors. So that lost him a hook and pressure. Also idk, he did just seem to get stunned a lot, Im not sure if that's him miss playing or the survivors getting lucky.
Honestly I think the Blight just had a unoptimized build, since it was entirely focused on Scourge Hooks. Scourge Hook perks are good but it just didnt work out for him. Corrupt and Pain Res are fine enough perks to use in this situation, however Floods of Rage and Gift of Pain seem like bad picks. Maybe if he had enduring/spirit fury things could have gone better. His strategy seems to involve running into pallets a lot, which runs the risk of being stunned. Since he can break pallets so quickly, he would be able to get his spirit fury fast.
I know those are weird perks for a Blight to use, but maybe that could of made the difference.
Also keep in mind the version of the game, the balance of the game when old deadhard and old ds and old OoO was around is a way different balance than the current version
You can really feel that this video's a year old lol. I would love to see this revisited for modern DBD, where you basically get a win screen for just queueing as survivor.
Syptic is a very difficult addon to use to get value, Your experience allows for good use of the resourse.
Experience is more important than Resources, because you need experience to know where pallets are and how the maps can be run best. Or even when best to use your med-kit and heal etc.
I think I've realized something that can help killers and survivors have more fun in a match. Simply put, just don't sweat so much. But in more complex terms, play the game like it's a survival horror game. As a survivor, be immersed, be afraid of the killer, try cool plays, and over all play like you can just respawn, cause you can.
As a killer, play like you are the obstacle for the survivors to overcome. Play to challenge them and to act like the big bad. You aren't there to make them suffer, you're there to be a challenge so they have fun.
Think about it this was. The survivors are the adventures in a DND game. The killer is the dm. The dms job isn't to punish the adventures, it's to provide obstacles. And the adventures job isn't to min max and overwhelm their poor dm, it to have fun and tell a story.
In the end, balance doesn't matter if both sides are just playing so everyone can have fun.
What
I have tried this. It's fun untill you get absolutely cracked survivors who tea bag at the exit gate, and asshole tunneling and camping killers who play to make you miserable.
to be honest, in my opinion, experience still should be on the top of the pyramid. When I was a new-ish player in DbD, I took an L against 2 Survivors with no perks at all (but flashlights), but they had like 500 hours while I had like 10.
How anyone fails to see that all of these problems come from the matchmaking being useless amazes me
I like your comment on gauging difficulty and acting accordingly. I do this as killer, but I do it by looking at the skill of the survivors. I don't go for kills, I go for hooks. My goal is that there is a good BP spread amongst all players by the end and I've gotten good hauls with simply hooking everyone twice. Pseudo farming to some extent, but it does mean everyone gets a turn/chance to shine. So if I go in and the survivors are seal pups, I'm gonna ease on the throttle. One sided games aren't fun.
Extra edit, all three are linked. Experience can determine what resources are worth bringing. But your mindset can also determine how sweaty your loadout will be.
Scott Jund you make my afternoons SOOOO much better. Love you ❤️
I think also exposed cut some of the chases by half, maybe not as impactful as the blight getting fucked over by the styptic, but it stops them from getting to main
Super interesting brain stimulating video. Thoroughly enjoyed
So just as an anecdote, I've been a surv main for most of my dbd career. the couple of MONTHS I played killer, I only played Onryo. I used her three main perks and I think sloppy butcher. I barely used her better add ons as well. No exaggeration, I think I only had three or four matches where I didn't get a 4k or purposefully let the last survivor go after downing them. I was playing somewhere around 10-15 games a week as killer. Literally no prior killer experience, I started getting 4ks right off the bat, and steam rolling teams that I could tell were on coms even.
It just depends on a lot of factors, but I feel like as a killer you can rely much more heavily on strategy, and not have to worry about teammates not playing optimally. You always have the opportunity to recover as a killer, and the game is never 100% out of control if you play well. That was just my experience on public games as a killer vs solo que though, so take it with a grain of salt.
I feel like this chart would work better as an overlapping circle chart rather than a pyramid.
The map itself is a resource indeed. 'The Game' for example. Against most m1 killers its a strong advantage for survivors. Now be against a stealth build suddenly all thoes high walls favor killer.
Or against doc and suddenly the small size and 2 floors work against you~ Which is a big reason map offerings are so strong. It kinda takes a big chunk of that 'RNG' slice and adds it to the 'resources' slice.
Scratched Mirror Myers? A Map offering is basically a 5'th perk.
30:45 Because they are lucky. It’s just something you can’t predict in DBD.
41:28 : *Yoda death sound*
3:52 was that the cat meowing?😂whatever it was it’s so cute seeing little catto get scratchies the whole time
ur cord is tangled because the plug can spin, when it starts happening unplug ur headphones and unwind it that should stop it from happening lol
I see so many people in his chat going "well wraith doesn't have those resources" or "make a pyramid for every killer" without realising that the killers are already in the pyramid. They are *resources*. And what killer you play is a choice of what resources you bring into the map, just the same as perks or add-ons.
I really like this discussion.
For me though resources and experience are equally important, resources being slightly more important on killer's side.
for thee algorith, when does the texas chaiansaw game come out? and when the the killer klowns come out?
Just want to say, I feel like resources that appear in a map (pallet locations, window locations, gen locations, etc.) fall under experience and not resources. I think the idea of the resources category in this context is what you being to the match yourself. Perks, items, addons, map offerings, those are variables that can be changed and can’t be predicted by anyone else in the map. Those are variables that the players have to on the fly adapt to as they learn they are present in the match.
But the things that spawn on the map? The second it loads you can already make a game plan because while there is some RNG variance to them, your experience with playing these maps lets you be aware of what’s around you and make plays in the possible coming seconds. You don’t bring those pallets to the map, so they’re not a resource. They are a persistent existing thing that through playing the game and the experience you build up you can take advantage of.
Food for thought pig had been put into an amazing situation this patch. The reason behind this is pig has always struggled at punishing survivors that have a good presence of mind, however with this patch more survivors stay injured/ waste a lot of time healing giving her massive potential to get full use out of her reverse bear traps. with the right builds you can pressure 3 or all survivors off of gens for more than 5 minutes without the need of any overly powerful perks using a half decent build she can easily and consistently snowball. Plus because you are playing pig more players tend to stick with the match I rarely get dc's and can get 11/12 hook games and they tend to be incredibly fun.
thank you for petting buddy for so long :)
Something that I thought was common knowledge is that, at least for killer, Nearly everything is dependent on which killer you are playing.
Nurse? Experience is about all that matters
Trapper? RNG is gonna matter the most.
100% agree resources above experience every game is different
The showcase came down to resources mostly because their experience levels were balanced
finally, a long scott video. let me get some food first. 🙏
I believe that another factor that was in play were the bligh's and spirit's addons and how it worked around their builds. While the spirit got use for pretty much all of them the blight just got little value from two of them.
This might be a hot take, but i don't feel like corrupt is great perk on killers that can have a fast early down and lethal persuer or deadlock(even if it's a mid gane perk) are nicer options on that regard.
Also as powerfull as blight and his addons can be, some maps can make his bump logic pretty unconsistent and make some turns more unpredictable and unreliable.
buddy is like subway surfers for my ADHD thank you scott
The biggest issue with this game is that the resources *are the RNG*
You have no way of knowing what killer, addons, items or map you will be playing against, and this is horrible.
And not just for "competitiveness" but for overall fun too.
Lery's and styptics screw Blight pretty hard. Spirit, I feel, is less map dependent.
As a killer main, decisive strike still can literally win games for survivors. Underrated perk.
i could never as passionate as alex when it comes to dbd
I thought this patch would make playing survivors super unplayable but I haven't really noticed any difference. One charge out of a medkit is plenty usually and getting 2 heals+ out of a single medkit and the self heal time increase I even forget about. This update has not been anywhere near as bad as I thought it'd be.
Experience is easily the biggest factor imo.
If the Blight had brought Franklin’s, we might have seen a completely different game.
Ds doesn't get value if you go down in a tile, ds is strong when you go down before a tile. Get the stun, get to your next resource, otherwise either you're going down next to your resource which, why, or you are in a dead zone and you'll just go down again. It's so situational there's rarely a point.
17:05 did that surv jump over the hole?!
Adding to this discussion super late: RNG and resources are tied more tightly in a lot of ways - mainly, many resources one side brings are functionally RNG to the other side(map offerings, add-ons, etc). If a survivor brings a garden of joy offering, is that RNG or resources? Well it's definitely resources, but if they killer had known ahead of time they could have broughy appropriate add-ons/perks, so from their perspective it's RNG... You bring resources to curb the RNG in your favor, kind of.
0:52 No shot. Twitch chat is just pulling numbers out of their asses. I personally haven't noticed a change and get killed every game and always am 4 man outed.
11:45 But why would someone not play the same way in a easier compared to a harder map? Why only play well in a difficult map if you can play at your best in both situations?
If we are doing to say that one of the biggest factors were the maps that they played on, but also talk about recourses then is there any reason to not consider map offerings as resources?
Lery's is technically harder for Blight but as someone who played Blight as my main the maneuverability on maps like Lery's and RPD is actually not as as bad as people think. You can actually do real work on those maps. Also accounting for hug teching and bounce logic combo.
Mr. Jundimus Prime
I’ve gotten several adepts on less than favorable maps by recognizing my disadvantage and sweating accordingly😅
If I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard the Dark Reality track in a video on UA-cam, I’d have a shitload of dollars