John Gordon just keep learning! Whether you’ve been doing this for a single year, or for 20 years, there is always still more to learn! And don’t be afraid to look for training outside of your dealership.
Check out your local college for Auto tech school. Much cheaper and better than other private schools. You can take one class at a time. And only take the classes that fit what you need now.
I had an 07 Lucerne doing exactly the same thing. Customer said after driving a while It stalled, and no crank. Would wait at the side of the road for 15 or 20 minutes, and it started and ran again. I initially had some U codes. I let it run for hours, drove it and drove it, and couldn't ever duplicate the issue, checked all kinds of power grounds, scoped scoping crank and ignition, and nothing. Finally on a drive I noticed the Tachometer quit working for a few minutes and then came back again. Called Customer and he said that he noticed Tachometer would quit working usually before the stall happened. Scanned it and had a pending code for crank sensor after that. I decided to replace the crank sensor (maybe not the problem, but definitely a problem) with a Wells one and it's been running great for 2 years since then. I could see how the crank sensor caused the stall, but not the no crank or u codes, but it's working now.
FrugalPrepper's Garage & Garden from what I recall, my 1990 Oldsmobile Cutlass Sierra did the same thing. And replacing the crank position sensor fixed it. My first car ever. Dad bought it off a co-worker for $75 lol. In hindsight, it all makes sense since the computer relies on the crank sensor for tach reading and ignition system control.
I had exactly the same problem a few years ago with a Lucerne. Cold start, everything OK, then drive, die about 20 minutes later. No start until everything cooled down a bit. Crank position sensor fixed it, and my local shop, to my surprise actually got the diagnosis right.
As a owner of a 2008 Buick Lucerne 3.8 the REASON WHY INE HAS A CRANK MO NO START IS THE BACK SEAT CUSHION CLIP GITTING THE FUSE BOX THAT IS DIRECTLY UNDER THIS CUSHION CLIP. ONE HAS TO SAW OFF HALF OF THE METAL CUSHION CLIP. SECONDLY YOU HAVE TO REPLACE THE HIGH PROFILE FUEL PUMP RELAY. YOU ALSO MAY NEED TO REPLACE THE FUSE BOX. THE PROBLEM IS THE METAL CUSHOIN CLIP ARCHING THE FUSE. ONCE I HAD THIS DONE OVER A YEAR AGE I NEVER HAD ANYMORE CRANK NO START. BUICK ISSUED A RECALL ON THIS AFTER I REPLACE TWO FUEL PUMPS. THE DEALER SAID THE FUEL PUMP WAS THE PROBLEM. BUT THAT WAS NOT THE PROBLEM. AGAIN THE PROBLEM IS A MANUFACTURING DEFECIT WITH THAT LONG BACK SEAT CUSHION HITTING THAT FUEL BOX CAUSING THE FUEL PIMP TO FUSE TO ARCH. THIS GUY DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. LASTLY WHEN YOU REPLACE THAT FUEL PUMP FUSE USE A LOW PROFILE FUSE. I PROMISE YOU YOU WILL NOT HAVE ANYMORE CRANK NO STARTS IF YOU DO WHAT I SAY. I LEARNED THE HARD WAY. WHEN I TOLD THE BUICK DEALER A ABOUT THIS THEY DID IT AND AGREED WITH ME.
That TSB, was performed on this car, i checked for that issue on the first vist when i couldn't replicate the complaint. The car was fixed by PCM replacement
Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge. I am in a similar position as you in the shop I work at and trying to take myself to the next level. You are a big help.
"Yes i poked it... i will fix it" This is probably the top of why i wach you and respect you. You aren't afraid to be real about things. If you seal it up when you are done, then you are a pro... "f"-those who are too scared to be real because they are afraid what orhers will say... who are usually only seeking support of others who are too afraid to say.... Bottom line, the original insulation was sealed by plastic to start with Copper (or an alloy) coated by plastic. As long as you seal it air and water tight (i like hot glue, and also suggest sewing needles for probes and back-probes) afterwards, then it is the same when done...respect 👍🏻
I like these case studies. They will help me with going deeper into diagnostics for proper vehicle repairs. I have the Launch CRP123 scan tool, but it's just a basic. It won't allow me to do the higher end stuff like you can, FRM. Keep up the great work.
I’m not a technician because I’m still in high school once I graduate this year I will be working as a beginning technician, but loge to watch these diagnostic videos even though I don’t know all the lingo I was wondering if u could maybe do some beginner learning type videos for everyone who doesn’t know what’s going on like me.
Had a Lucerne with a no crank a couple months ago with no communication on any lan module, tracked it to a data connector in the rear bumper for the parking sensors had water intrusion and had shorted 12v to my lan lines, cleaned up the corrosion and all was good
I had almost identical car a few months ago with the same symptoms. That car would act up in 20 minutes though making it easier to diagnose. I had power/ground and good data circuits and no communication. A PCM fixed the car I was working on.
a quick check you can do on the communication network is at the ob2 connector with a ohm meter, 6 and 14 i believe you should have 60ohms of resistance, GM uses two terminating resistors to kill the communication messages between modules. if you dont have 60 ohms you can start by disconnecting modules on the network til it goes to 60 and when it does that is how you know what module is most likely the cause. (GM tech here, 7 yrs at dealership. )
You are Right and it''s 60 Ohms on every vehicle since 1996. Ex-GM Dealership Smog /Tech - Drivability Problem Solver Know GM using newer Manufacturer GM Scanner, but I miss those Tech 2 Fuel Injector Balance Test with P0300 and using Wynns Fuel System Package when one of the Injectors was found to be Clogged.
@@cbarkwell1000 well with the direct injected engines now we use an AFIT tester, it legit measures and displays amount of fuel an injector is using. either in a graph , or numerical with % . i have done drive ability, electrical, ac, front end, brakes, light line.
@@jaywebb0113 Okay, well taken 2/13/2020. See PCM wás the Fault....My question now ís this : 1) On that little metẻr, he said the MAP Sensor ís reading 5.0 Volts ( and the Engine ís running ).....When on planet Earth did MAP Sensors start reading 5.0 Volts @ KOER , insteâd of 1.0 to 2.0 Volts@ KOER.....That 5.0 Volts reading ís supposed to be a KOEO reading ( only ). Respectfully, "Hop-A-Long" Barkwell Los Angeles County
Intermittent problems are the worst to track down. Could a person Lightly tap on the ECM in this situation just curious, I really enjoy watching your diagnostic process thank you
Had a No crank No start 2007 Lucerne CXL (72k miles). No circle around the PARK on instrument cluster. No communication to PCM(which is a ECM and TCM) / ABS module with Autel Maxisys. Cleaned grounds and installed new battery. Pulled black round plug (squeeze and pull straight out) going to transmission under MAF sensor area . Cleaned and applied dielectric grease. Started up!! Complete communication to all modules and no codes. Plug looked a little damp but nothing real obvious. Passing on the info!
Maybe a current clamp on V+ going into the PCM, if you think the whole box is glitching and resetting itself. Should see something unusual as it ceases to do computing tasks.
Hi I am going through this with my car it does crank but doesn't catch. No codes. How did you recreate the stall so I can tell my mechanic how to recreate it.
Thank you. Still learning data reading. I have a engine 6.0 Chevy stallion out. Really think it’s the propane fuel pump. But want to narrow it down with date. And know which Direction to take. And yes the classic p0171 and 174 codes
@@SuperScopeLLC On these early throttle by wire GM systems, the Crank Sensor will start throwing garbage and the PCM will flip out and cause a no crank. Let it sit 15 or twenty minutes and it will work again. I would scope the 18x and 3x signal and see if I can capture the signal going wonky right before the stall to confirm a diagnosis.
JW 103765 so a crank sensor will cause a lack of data? That would have to be a ckp short pulling down the 5v reference circuit, which he mentions never losing during the stall.
Where the fan at? Or you have a good mix, letting that engine run that long inside a building for that long ain't cool for no engine... The car running at 200 degrees and higher not cool
Now this is an EXCELLENT video ! Awesome job ! Need more videos like this one.
"O" Koon Trucking from the Great State of Mississipi.
I learn so much from your videos I’m a lube technician at a dealership hopefully I will learn a lot more and move up I like working on cars
John Gordon just keep learning! Whether you’ve been doing this for a single year, or for 20 years, there is always still more to learn!
And don’t be afraid to look for training outside of your dealership.
Check out your local college for Auto tech school. Much cheaper and better than other private schools. You can take one class at a time. And only take the classes that fit what you need now.
I had an 07 Lucerne doing exactly the same thing. Customer said after driving a while It stalled, and no crank. Would wait at the side of the road for 15 or 20 minutes, and it started and ran again. I initially had some U codes. I let it run for hours, drove it and drove it, and couldn't ever duplicate the issue, checked all kinds of power grounds, scoped scoping crank and ignition, and nothing. Finally on a drive I noticed the Tachometer quit working for a few minutes and then came back again. Called Customer and he said that he noticed Tachometer would quit working usually before the stall happened. Scanned it and had a pending code for crank sensor after that. I decided to replace the crank sensor (maybe not the problem, but definitely a problem) with a Wells one and it's been running great for 2 years since then. I could see how the crank sensor caused the stall, but not the no crank or u codes, but it's working now.
FrugalPrepper's Garage & Garden from what I recall, my 1990 Oldsmobile Cutlass Sierra did the same thing. And replacing the crank position sensor fixed it. My first car ever. Dad bought it off a co-worker for $75 lol.
In hindsight, it all makes sense since the computer relies on the crank sensor for tach reading and ignition system control.
I had exactly the same problem a few years ago with a Lucerne. Cold start, everything OK, then drive, die about 20 minutes later. No start until everything cooled down a bit. Crank position sensor fixed it, and my local shop, to my surprise actually got the diagnosis right.
Strap your camera to her dash and it will never stall again. Nice one Mike.
Nice job diagnosing the issue Mike. Calling the PCM is always a tough one for a pro. Hacks change PCM's all the time. ;-)
Ozzstar haha! Yes! My next video will showcase a car that had the PCM replaced elsewhere that didn’t fix their misfire haha
As a owner of a 2008 Buick Lucerne 3.8 the REASON WHY INE HAS A CRANK MO NO START IS THE BACK SEAT CUSHION CLIP GITTING THE FUSE BOX THAT IS DIRECTLY UNDER THIS CUSHION CLIP. ONE HAS TO SAW OFF HALF OF THE METAL CUSHION CLIP. SECONDLY YOU HAVE TO REPLACE THE HIGH PROFILE FUEL PUMP RELAY. YOU ALSO MAY NEED TO REPLACE THE FUSE BOX. THE PROBLEM IS THE METAL CUSHOIN CLIP ARCHING THE FUSE. ONCE I HAD THIS DONE OVER A YEAR AGE I NEVER HAD ANYMORE CRANK NO START. BUICK ISSUED A RECALL ON THIS AFTER I REPLACE TWO FUEL PUMPS. THE DEALER SAID THE FUEL PUMP WAS THE PROBLEM. BUT THAT WAS NOT THE PROBLEM. AGAIN THE PROBLEM IS A MANUFACTURING DEFECIT WITH THAT LONG BACK SEAT CUSHION HITTING THAT FUEL BOX CAUSING THE FUEL PIMP TO FUSE TO ARCH. THIS GUY DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. LASTLY WHEN YOU REPLACE THAT FUEL PUMP FUSE USE A LOW PROFILE FUSE. I PROMISE YOU YOU WILL NOT HAVE ANYMORE CRANK NO STARTS IF YOU DO WHAT I SAY. I LEARNED THE HARD WAY. WHEN I TOLD THE BUICK DEALER A ABOUT THIS THEY DID IT AND AGREED WITH ME.
That TSB, was performed on this car, i checked for that issue on the first vist when i couldn't replicate the complaint. The car was fixed by PCM replacement
Really.
Ex GM Dealer Tech.
@@flatratemaster
I'm Reading You Wall to Wall , Tree Top Tall. You had already checked the TSB info !
Mike next time put the heat gun at the pcm to try to replicate,sometimes it works and shortens the wait time
I really enjoy your case studies. Nothing like learning from a qualified and intelligent super tech. Thanks. Semper Fi, USMC.
Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge. I am in a similar position as you in the shop I work at and trying to take myself to the next level. You are a big help.
Patiently waiting for the new 2020 Autel Maxisys Ultra.
"Yes i poked it... i will fix it"
This is probably the top of why i wach you and respect you. You aren't afraid to be real about things. If you seal it up when you are done, then you are a pro... "f"-those who are too scared to be real because they are afraid what orhers will say... who are usually only seeking support of others who are too afraid to say.... Bottom line, the original insulation was sealed by plastic to start with Copper (or an alloy) coated by plastic. As long as you seal it air and water tight (i like hot glue, and also suggest sewing needles for probes and back-probes) afterwards, then it is the same when done...respect 👍🏻
Good video Informative to the young newbies. Unique failure in which I don't see often but have seen. Keep up the good videos
I like these case studies. They will help me with going deeper into diagnostics for proper vehicle repairs. I have the Launch CRP123 scan tool, but it's just a basic. It won't allow me to do the higher end stuff like you can, FRM. Keep up the great work.
Very funny to see that the minute the camera comes out the car heals itself. Very good info for techs here. Testing Takes Time 👍
I’m not a technician because I’m still in high school once I graduate this year I will be working as a beginning technician, but loge to watch these diagnostic videos even though I don’t know all the lingo I was wondering if u could maybe do some beginner learning type videos for everyone who doesn’t know what’s going on like me.
Nothing like waiting for hours for it to stall again. And trying to get it on camera.
Great case study mike! Nice find!
Great work on this, I'm surprised you got it to stall at all. Those are the worst to diag.
Had a Lucerne with a no crank a couple months ago with no communication on any lan module, tracked it to a data connector in the rear bumper for the parking sensors had water intrusion and had shorted 12v to my lan lines, cleaned up the corrosion and all was good
I had almost identical car a few months ago with the same symptoms. That car would act up in 20 minutes though making it easier to diagnose. I had power/ground and good data circuits and no communication. A PCM fixed the car I was working on.
a quick check you can do on the communication network is at the ob2 connector with a ohm meter, 6 and 14 i believe you should have 60ohms of resistance, GM uses two terminating resistors to kill the communication messages between modules. if you dont have 60 ohms you can start by disconnecting modules on the network til it goes to 60 and when it does that is how you know what module is most likely the cause. (GM tech here, 7 yrs at dealership. )
You are Right and it''s 60 Ohms on every vehicle since 1996.
Ex-GM Dealership Smog /Tech - Drivability Problem Solver
Know GM using newer Manufacturer GM Scanner, but I miss those Tech 2 Fuel Injector Balance Test with P0300 and using Wynns Fuel System Package when one of the Injectors was found to be Clogged.
@@cbarkwell1000 well with the direct injected engines now we use an AFIT tester, it legit measures and displays amount of fuel an injector is using. either in a graph , or numerical with % . i have done drive ability, electrical, ac, front end, brakes, light line.
@@jaywebb0113
Okay, well taken 2/13/2020.
See PCM wás the Fault....My question now ís this : 1) On that little metẻr, he said the MAP Sensor ís reading 5.0 Volts ( and the Engine ís running ).....When on planet Earth did MAP Sensors start reading 5.0 Volts @ KOER , insteâd of 1.0 to 2.0 Volts@ KOER.....That 5.0 Volts reading ís supposed to be a KOEO reading ( only ).
Respectfully,
"Hop-A-Long" Barkwell
Los Angeles County
Intermittent problems are the worst to track down. Could a person Lightly tap on the ECM in this situation just curious, I really enjoy watching your diagnostic process thank you
Had a No crank No start 2007 Lucerne CXL (72k miles). No circle around the PARK on instrument cluster. No communication to PCM(which is a ECM and TCM) / ABS module with Autel Maxisys. Cleaned grounds and installed new battery. Pulled black round plug (squeeze and pull straight out) going to transmission under MAF sensor area . Cleaned and applied dielectric grease. Started up!! Complete communication to all modules and no codes. Plug looked a little damp but nothing real obvious. Passing on the info!
Please excuse my typos from the earlier comment. I was rushing to clock back in for work.
First good info random stalling gotta love a challenge
Great video and diagnosis.
I learn a lot from your case study vids.
Maybe a current clamp on V+ going into the PCM, if you think the whole box is glitching and resetting itself. Should see something unusual as it ceases to do computing tasks.
So did the PCM work on this car? We have a 2008 Lucerne in the shop with a similar problem but a new PCM did not repair the issue.
Hi I am going through this with my car it does crank but doesn't catch. No codes. How did you recreate the stall so I can tell my mechanic how to recreate it.
Nice case study
So, eliminate everything else, then it must be PCM/ECM?
Good video mike! I’d love to see more of these ‼️
Excellent work.
Nice work.
Thank you. Still learning data reading. I have a engine 6.0 Chevy stallion out. Really think it’s the propane fuel pump. But want to narrow it down with date. And know which Direction to take. And yes the classic p0171 and 174 codes
Chevy stallions never have bad propane fuel pumps. Look again.
I hear you have a good solution for wheel lock keys, maybe make a video on that?
Could always use the OG method. Hammer a cheap socket on it and replace it with a regular one.
Is not the PCM sir swap a crank sensor first
I agree!
@@SuperScopeLLC On these early throttle by wire GM systems, the Crank Sensor will start throwing garbage and the PCM will flip out and cause a no crank. Let it sit 15 or twenty minutes and it will work again. I would scope the 18x and 3x signal and see if I can capture the signal going wonky right before the stall to confirm a diagnosis.
JW 103765 I think you’re right. Crank sensor effects control of ignition system, which will cause the no start.
FrugalPrepper's Garage & Garden agree!
JW 103765 so a crank sensor will cause a lack of data? That would have to be a ckp short pulling down the 5v reference circuit, which he mentions never losing during the stall.
How do you guys bill out for a more advanced diagnostic like this vehicle?
We start at 2 hours, and get more if needed
You said the 3.8 like the engine ain't nothing. The only thing gm did right was that engine...
Where the fan at? Or you have a good mix, letting that engine run that long inside a building for that long ain't cool for no engine... The car running at 200 degrees and higher not cool
❤️ ❤️ ❤️ diag vids.
Wow!!!