Best Option for Apple ][ Modern Networking?
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- Опубліковано 13 сер 2021
- The first 1000 people to use this link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/actionretro08211
A few months ago, we had a grand ol' time with TheOldNet's Serial WiFi Modem Emulator. Well, those boffins have released an updated version! Today, let's pair it with our Apple //e, and pit it against our tried-and-true Uthernet ][ ethernet card.
Then let's use the //e as a terminal to our Quadra 950 running A/UX!
🍎 TheOldNet Serial RS232 WiFi Modem: www.tindie.com/products/theol...
🍎 On Github: github.com/ssshake/vintage-co...
🍎 The Uthernet ][: www.a2retrosystems.com
🍎 Telnet65 full-featured terminal emulator for Apple //e with Uthernet: github.com/cc65/ip65/wiki/Tel...
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#Apple #TheOldNet #Modem - Наука та технологія
if i remember correctly, you could use ate0 and ate1 to disable or enable local echo.
This is perfect for getting an old mac online. FTP it up and LITERAL Terabytes available for use. So much that it doesn't even know what to do with all the space.
The Apple II is late to the FTP party. Been out 12 years when this computer was made :)
I thought the Wifi modem only supports terminal/telnet sessions right now?
@@alextirrellRI A lot of shell accounts provided Kermit or ZModem to download files over a simple dialup connection. Also in theory one could tunnel SLIP or PPP over the connection to get fully-online in the most roundabout way possible.
@@fluffycritter Yup, SLIP/PPP is what I'm interested in. I feel like I had commented on the first video and the developer said it wasn't possible yet, but I'm not sure what approach they were looking at.
@@alextirrellRI Hmm, the only thing I can think of that might be a problem is that the Telnet protocol has some extra flow control stuff that a SLIP or PPP stack might not be expecting. But if the underlying network connection is actually a raw socket I don't see what the problem could possibly be.
Thanks for showing my Telnet65 :-) I'm so happy that you don't do the usual "Uh, it's no even WiFi" talk, but see the the speed benefit of the Uthernet + Telnet65 combo. The difference becomes much more visible, if you run a more complex full-screen program like 'midnight commander' on the server side, that sends a lot VT100 codes to build its screen! And one thought regarding the price: In contrast to many/most other machines, the //e doesn't have a built-in serial port, so if you add the price of a Super Serial Card to the WiFi modem, things already look a bit different...
mixing and matching 1970s tech with 2020s tech is kind of exhilarating - perhaps kinda like how Dr Frankenstein felt when he exclaimed "It's alive!" - same unnatural theme of stitching together things that don't belong together in the proper order of nature
Nothing will quite compare to the feeling of stuffing a modern engine into a 70's car.
Next episode: WiFi on an ENIAC?! Oh yes.
yeah totally lol
Even on this Apple ][ the simplest modem would still be faster than it CPU lol.
Wow I was quick, just 1 minute! I missed seeing your shenanigans last week. Hope you enjoyed your holiday :)
Thanks Luke!
@@ActionRetro My newest Mac is a Late-2014 Mac mini and my oldest is a mid-2010 unibody 15” MacBook Pro. I need an older one!
This blows the doors off of my acoustic coupler. Calling the round table in Houston and the thieves den in Austin… good times
For slightly newer machines that have (or can have) TCP stacks of their own, it is possible to use the ESP32 as a router and PPP server. My hacked together version is slightly problematic in that the NAT isn't accepting incoming connections. It's not too much of an issue since it can access the network itself, but the NAT router isn't forwarding incoming packets. Maybe one day I'll get to play NetTrek on a network.
I love seeing older machines access the internet. Great video as always!
Seems to me the original internet was built using these old computers. They like any senior citizen damn well do deserve to be able to do everything that they were built to do.
So cool that people are coming up with these devices to be able to get these old machines onto wifi and even the internet relatively cheaply and easily. Imagine telling Apple II owners in the late 70s that they'd one day be connected to a global network of similar machines - all through the air!
Growing up with the internet in my life, I can't accurately determine what being told that would have been like. Though, with a colorful enough imagination... I bet my response would have been something like
"Dude, how high are you? That would be impossible, through the air!?"
I really appreciate of how it’s done man. Thank you.
Beautiful upgrade to a beautiful machine!
It's amazing like 5-7 years ago there wasn't much about bringing up old computers online, this is amazing 👍
These esp boards are awesome. Few dollar board and a scrap of old cable and your set.
18 seconds ago? What a time to see a video :)
Hope you had a good vacation, I missed having a video last week.
Such great little devices for sure!
Sean Definitely Like The Never modem Version very nice Set Up WIFI Love It
Just got a IIc a few days ago. I already have an oldnet WiFi modem that I use on my Tandy. Gonna try this out tomorrow.
I think i will get one for me. Cool stuff
Did you try 19200 baud?
You should be able to swap tx-rx in software instead of null modem. I am not sure if the current firmware allows that.
Very interesting video. When we bought an Apple //e in late 1983, we also bought a Hayes 300 baud modem with it. Yeah ... Hayes ... so it probably wasn't cheap, even though it was only 300 baud. Of course, it's not like 9600 baud existed yet. Anyway, it wasn't until several years later where I even found software that could allow me to download things with the Xmodem protocol ... the communications software that came with the Hayes modem didn't even have that! Maybe we only had Kermit at the time? I have no idea.
Is interesting that the most basic version of esp32 has more ram and processing power than the apple IIe
Is 9600 as fast as it can go on the IIe? Could it go faster on other computers?
The modem can go a lot faster, the terminal program he used looked like it supports higher than 9600 but good point, I don't know what that serial port card can handle.
the command options and terminal settings seem to imply it can do 19200 baud just fine, so I wonder what's up with that
The Super Serial Card should be able to go faster than 9600 baud.
Let's double check that with Al Gore, just to be on the safe side.
This is wild. We should use this to LAN
Can you apply a lowpass filter to your audio next time? The CRT whine is really hurting my ears :(
It's kinda funny to see a much more powerful, capable SoC being used as a peripheral for an apple //e. I love it. :)
This was such a great video! I have an older WiFi232 which I have used with a ton of vintage machines, but this new one looks more convenient and quite a bit smaller, probably going to order one today. Nice work!
Great point, I put some considerable effort into getting a smaller size. I figured if someone wants to plug it directly into their computer it will reduce the chance of it interfering with other ports.
jezus that crt whine
could you put a apple iic on the internet
couldn't you set the serial card and the wifi modem even higher?
It would be nice if they offered this WiFi modem with a 25 pin connector, as most old computers use a DB25.
also with no 'nul modem' adapter, which is rather dumb as this is supposed to be a modem.....
To your first point I am looking at offering DB25 adapters and mini DIN adapters for apple computers.
I'm trying to source the parts for a good price. So far I have the mini din locked down but I haven't found the right gender of db9 to db25 for a good price.
I don't understand what you mean about the null modem adapter. You don't need to cross over the pins because they are the direct pinout to begin with. However I am also going to be providing null modem adapters.
@@TheOldNet The video makes it seem like, to be able to hook up the device, he had to use a null modem adapter. It would be good of you could just connect the device directly to the port on the machine.
@@ZipplyZane Ah yeah I understand now. The reason why he had to use a null modem adapter is because the cable he was using is a null modem adapter itself. This is a problem because it swaps the rx and tx lines. So he used a second null modem adapter to cancel the first one out.
So you can think of it as the first one crosses over rx and tx, the second one crosses it over again putting it back to normal.
I will be providing a mac compatible cable as an option on my store. I'm still experimenting to find out which I want to supply.
The dip switches are only useful for the built in terminal software (IN#x - x=slot the card is in). Otherwise terminal software does not care how the switches are set (ie. ProTERM).
Whenever I see these videos I really think you should have a look at stuff like irc and gopher
Why don’t you use 19200 baud?
So there are still BBS that exist today? I never experienced them as a kid. Can you recommend some good BBS to try out today?
Yup, gonna run off to join Mulletman @ 5:05!
@14:48 come on, what does the sticker tell you not to do :)
You should do that at Starbucks... once a day for a week, starting with the oldest and ending with the most obscure and bizarre -- probably the cursed mac
Extra points for dressing in the proper Era and pretending to be a covert time traveler
Realistically, the Uthernet II is not going to be faster than a serial connection by any reasonable margin because the Uthernet II is ultimately limited by the speed of the Apple II bus and the Apple II CPU. The Uthernet II is ultimately capable of doing more-file sharing over it is technically possible, for example. Not implemented, but possible.
Y'know, I'm a bit surprised that I can't easily find local echo in my ProTERM manual. Most PC serial programs have the option to turn it on and off at will in a menu, but it seems ProTERM may not-it's been a little while since I've had to mess with that since you usually want it off. Odd omission from the software, though. Another commenter has already mentioned ATE0 and ATE1 to do it at the modem level. Your MUD illustrates why you'd want to be able to turn local echo on and off on the fly. Most software you want it off and the remote end does the echoing. Not always, obviously.
Re the echo issue, turn Duplex to Off.
The retro is realy the tomorrow
Looks like that -p flag isn't doing what you'd thought in the MUD script, first line was saying it was unknown! Also, you should be able to set the execute bit on the file with the 'chmod' command, not sure if any of the newer niceties will be available, like chmod +x etc, but the help should show you what to do, then you can omit the 'sh' before the script :)
Hm, telnetting to that web gateway thing gives me a message: "Service status: OFFLINE. Please check back in February of 2021." I guess it requires a time machine.
Yeah I shouldn't commit to due dates, I slipped on that one hard. I will be getting back to it this Winter, which is when I do most of my work.
I made one :)
Why is their a different title and thumbnail now?
So you should seriously take your Apple 2 to starbucks!
21:50 Someone needs to do that. And make an undercover video to get peoples reactions. Censored unless you get their consent of course. If they don't have power outlets use a Jackery or some kind of portable power station. Also could take it camping or on a road trip and use it in the back of a van.
Oh this would be so much better than getting yelled at for a three hour long distance call to Oregon to play LORD... My kids are definitely getting a MUD for Christmas. I've got some old machines that are just screaming for use. Time to hunt down what I need for my TI99/4A to get online.
Be Careful: It's the first Time
A nice add-on to update the system
Nice one m8
I wonder, you should plug this into a modern computer for the memes
that's a pretty funny idea lol
the ethernet card's name is pronounced "oothernet" (as in "tooth"), not othernet.
17:40 What kind of brain-dead design results in a "modem" device that needs to connect via a null modem adaptor?
apple II not apple ][ i dunno...im a 3rd so i always use III just my two cents on the matter.
D B 9? That's a DE9 !
Oh I just thought of something stupid. Take a external modem that you can jumper (dip switch) it is answer automatically just pass via the serial port. Then in between the two have a line simulator (well I use a old Avaya system.) and boom. You modem from the apple to the other modem. Yea, stupid. Though the better idea would get one that acted dumb so you don't get confused on atz command.
To be honest, I don't think saying "way faster" in terms of these machines is really fair. Even a serial port is pretty damn quick for these machines. :)
oh a new good video
I don't think wifi is a good idea if you wanna take it to an expo, those are notorious for wifi problems
Hummm.. I wonder if this would work with a dumb terminal. A WiFi dumb terminal, browse the web without a computer.
He's just using a terminal emulator so I don't see why a real terminal wouldn't work.
Coil whine at 12:00 btw young people beware
Might want to apply a high pass to the audio
Nice, should work well with my Amiga’s and C64’s (with an RS232 UserPort)
ATDT is not the command set, it is simply the command to do a dial up. After it you would normally put the phone number the modem had to call.
Wikipedia; "The Hayes command set (also known as the AT command set) is a specific command language originally developed by Dennis Hayes[1][2] for the Hayes Smartmodem 300 baud modem in 1981. "
ps. why don't you set the baud rate to 19200 ? It's a LOT faster.
Yes fun!
My next question is will it work with a dumb terminal? It's Hayes compatible and RS232 but will it be able to do anything useful without external software?
If it can, I will buy several immediately.
Gotta say though I feel kinda awkward because I've been forcing these old things online for years now to much complaining from about everyone I mentioned it to, I get lots of questions about "Isn't that insecure" and yadda yadda yadda
At least it's becoming popular enough that I won't be told off for it anymore
I want to watch this video but the hand waving is so distracting
At least he should have sock puppets. :)