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this episode was pretty "DUM" Kappa pretty cool history. now i wanna add that dum dums and hollow points are available to civilians and are quite commonly used for self defense and home defense ammo types.
0:13 "escape into the animated ghetto..." Ghetto!?! Brain begins to scan memory for both the colloquial and literal definition of ghetto. 😢 Oh no! It literally was. Today I found out one of my favorite childhood movies prominently displayed an apartheid system with only a surface level criticism of it.
@@zr6671 Yes, the glee that you hear from certain proponents of this ammunition makes one suspect that they are either divorced from the realities of warfare, or leaning on the scale of psychopathy. There are people who argue that "mushrooming" or any other form of expanding bullet prevents over penetration which would harm innocent bystanders behind the target. They will also argue this allows you to fire if you were rounds to end the threat. However, counterpoint what happens when you miss? A hypothetical innocent is still hit, but with far graver consequences.
Jacketed boolit had more to do with lead projectiles physically breaking apart and disintegrating into a bunch of pieces from the several fold times higher pressure of smokeless powder. Rubin's research wasn't really useful until the lebel and it's smokeless powder in 1886. The 1880s pace of firearm development was as if we went from modern technology to freaking Lazer beams in 5 years.
Flamethrowers were incredibly dangereous for the ones using them too, and they at least had to get very very close. With dum dum bullets you could cripple and horribly kill enemies from very far away. That is the difference (even tho flamethrowers of course were a horrible weapon, that also should have been banned from this planet)
I found out what a Dum-Dum was when I was about 5-6 and played Duke Nukem on my Nintendo 64. I then got on the internet and looked up what it was... Turns out they were just early hollow-points "expanding bullets" like the one in my childhood varmint rifle. Thank you internet and lack of parental supervision, you were and still are "to some degree" the best teacher.
@@cbk0485 I play it now with Eduke32 and RedNukem 64... IMO Duke 64 is a better version just because of the weapons and alternate ammo. The dual MP5K in Duke 64 can target 2 different aliens at the same time unlike the Ripper and the Plasma Cannon can fire a nuke while the freezer is just a worse machine gun in the original game.
@@TheStrayHALOMAN I'll have to check that out. I used to play on PS4 but the lobbies have been empty for years. I will say duke nukem 64 probably was the best.
Dum dum bullets aren't hollow point but large blunt soft points with a good bit of lead exposed in the nose. From dum dum india. I've got a few original rnds😊
I clicked on this video thinking "By God, you WILL NOT miss the chance to bring up the Who Framed Roger Rabbit" Dum-Dum scene. Bravo and my immense gratitude to you that you opened up with it! It made my (otherwise roughly started) day.
What he left out was another form of "Dum Dum" Where one would remove the bullet and seat it backwards so the flat base of the bullet points forward. The flat base alone proved a larger would channel but the jacket all too often did not cover the base leading to expansion. These bullets had no accuracy at range thus duplicating the Dum Dums in the cartoon not knowing which direction to travel
Funny but the reality is when the bullets would explode inside it could damage more organs than just you know that so people would bleed out from the inside it was very very f***** up. The fact that Lincoln of all people thought that was a good idea and humane is absolutely laughable to me.
@@NarutoMagicCyclops I suppose. I wonder what the psychological effects of an exploding round vs one that just expands would be though? Like, are you more mentally wounded if you heard a loud bang and saw your arm sever?
I really like that quote from Major General Sir John. He completey believed the point of war was not to kill, and couldnt understand why wounded men wouldnt want to get treated. He even implied it was the goal of shooters to wound and not kill.
Reminded me of the (truly) unbelievable lengths the Germans went to to avoid killing in WW2; and their treatment of POWs as opposed to the extreme barbarity of the allies treatment of POW's (Do read into it; there is a great deal of information). One that comes readily to mind is how the Germans sent many pleas for peace and allowed their citizen centers to be bombed day and night for about 100 days before they ever fired one shot in self defense in that war; vs the allies (who allied with the same people that are responsible for the Holodomor - while it was still ongoing...) and bombed the German people, the people, not the military - in Germany; for about 100 days and nights without the Germans ever retaliating. Good thing the good guys won; otherwise the US would have an official language that isn't Spanish. I bet the saying in Germany today goes "at least we're not speaking German.".
The thinking was, wound one, and it takes 2 others to gurney him out of the Action. Thus removing 3 for one shot. But we know that was flawed thinking, hmmm? Carry on.
Sometimes the men pointed off to go engage in this destruction have more humanity for those on the opposing the trench line than those who send them. after all, so often those that send them never go themselves... A distinction seemingly lost on those who "thank" others for service upon returning
I imagine the courtly British language for that exchange: "I say old boy, I've shot you fair and square! Just lie down like a good chap and I won't have to cry 'foul' and have your name taken down. We can't have a decent war with people running around killing each other now can we? Pip pip, cheerio."
All this talk about civilized rules of warfare reminds me of the line from Princess Bride “You mean, you'll put down your rock and I'll put down my sword, and we'll try and kill each other like civilized people?”
Not really, during warfare bullets killing the target used to be a pretty rare outcome... If they even hit that is, which was also relatively rare, still remains to be the case if you look at bullets fired vs mortalities even in modern wars. If anything, it's surprising to hear about the humane intent of those people, and makes me wonder what would happen if they where the ones left in charge instead of the big government taking over the world starting with WW1 with it's insane policies and money printing, allowing for much bigger and more inhumane wars to be had, along with insane propaganda starting about the other side being evil, instead of the old understanding of it being a mere conflict, which was but an unfortunate occurance but did NOT dehumanize the other side, making wars prior to WW1 shorter, smaller, more humane and less bitter.
@@mkzhero Shorter? Have you read history? There is a war that is called the Hundred Year War in Europe. Want to guess why it got that name? There was no civility to war and there never has been. There was an attempt during the Age of Enlightenment through to the early 20th century to attempt to add some civility to it and prevent directions and weapon trends that would result in mass civilian casualties along with trying to make it more humane, but it has failed at doing that now. High explosives and electronics caused that. Asymmetric warfare as well.
That's exactly what it is. Talk. Not for the benefit of those who have to fight in wars, but for the benefit of the citizens back home who are represented by their home team abroad. Anything goes at the end of the day. I wonder if such summits have always been a bunch of hot air, or if that only applies to our current summits. In the words of Morty "Yeah peace summits are great, we're really drooowwning in peace right now"
When I was a kid, we used BB guns so there was no doubt. Can't argue with the welt it produced. We wore safety goggles so it was safe :P Also played with lawn darts for the first time when I was 2 years old. It was a different time.
@@k-tz5jg I'm not gaslighting what's up with you weirdos and GaSlIgHtInG but you're right that I misunderstood his comment he said nothing about his parents knowing they were shooting each other with bb guns lol
The CO for my Cadet Corps was a University History Professor in the CIC: and one night he had to fill in for our RSM teaching the Green Stars (Newbies) and I remember him getting side tracked and forgetting he was talking to a bunch of 12 year olds and got really in depth describing what a Dum-Dum Bullet and a bunch of other horrific MODs that could be made to weaponry that were outlawed under various War Crime Pacts. I think he emotionally scarred a few of my fellow Green Stars that night with the detail of what a bullet tumbling end over end after fired can do to its target. I know my brain has dressed that moment up a lot in the 25 years since but it's a hilarious moment to recall: just seeing this happy white haired old man with rosy cheeks and a curly waxed mustache; telling a room full of a kids about horrific war crimes in this cheerful, chipper, and brutally honest manner.
@@GeoffreyPitman523 I mean in the cases he was talking about I am pretty sure most of them where. His main area of study for History was late 19th to mid 20th century British Empire/Commonwealth warfare, so most of his stories were Boer War to just after WW2. But you make a fair point in context to the history of the dum-dum bullet lol
As weird as it is, it makes sense. In theory, if you care about your soldiers you don't want them to suffer. It makes sense to create rules where you don't needlessly torture your enemies and they don't needlessly torture you.
My step father was a weapons engineer, I got BOTH explanations, he was a great 'consultant' to have on hand for films like Die Hard, RoboCop, Bond or Hunt for Red October 😅
The first time that I encountered the term was in Ian Fleming's book "The Man with the Golden Gun". In the text, a "dum dum bullet" was a regular round that the shooter had added an "X" to the tip of the round using a sharp knife. As a result, dum dum bullets would expand once they exited the barrel of a firearm.
Fun thing is that I have very much the same weapon plus that same type of 3 round N-clip in my collection and I could litterally imagine how there must have been some prototypical early 20th century nerd with a moustache tinkering around with his wooden box camera and those 2 objects on his kitchen table
I too found this extremely interesting. For the time it was probably the most effective way to actually illustrate how the rounds were loaded. It is extremely strange seeing stop motion being applied for something as serious as weapons demonstration.
Whilst full metal jacket bullets are used against humans because they don't mushroom, in hunting animals soft tipped lead bullets are used as they're more likely to kill quickly rather than leaving a mortal wound which could cause days of suffering.
Years, life times. I've caught and taken animals in to have surgery that had BBs from various weapons and other lasting injuries from people, years old. Hunting is sick and twisted, and in nearly all cases reserved for perverts. There is plenty of food, and there is no place on the earth that can support any "normal" population by hunting. Also, what most people call hunting is just stupid people shooting at animals in the yard. There is really some thing wrong with the mind of man that sees and animal and thinks "hey, I'll aim a gun at that thing and trigger it off.". I don't care who says what, that is some form of a sexual perversion. It is a strange thing that the man works his whole life and is told he is free yet knowing he is not, then upon seeing the little critter that is truly free, the man wants to cause more of the misery that he himself is in (probably the same phenomenon that causes men to disappear and allow their wife to sigh papers and have their sons circumsized; the fact that that is even done to any man in any nation is the highest disgrace. For the generations to come, men, I'd entreat you all to look at a the truth (medical journals and root it all the way down to the root - it is a blood letting ritual.) and stop. The animal has to work every day, for many, as hard as they can; then they have to deal with that to the point they only fiddle around in the dark of night; I'm sure most animals love that they have to hide and be afraid all all the time. That and, I've read the Good Book, the most high GOD made all the animals, they all belong to him; I know what I'd feel like if someone hurt one of mine. GOD hates hunters. Romans 9:13
I've also heard that expanding rounds are also used by police under some circumstances, because they generally stay in the target as opposed to passing right through, which reduces the risk of wounding bystanders, hostages and similar.
@@SmashPortal Dated language, meaning when war was a gentlemen's career with suicidal rules of honor. Like marching straight onto a line of enemies firing at them.
Thats not how humans work. Poor people will always enlist because they're lied to, thinking their "service" is honorable and they have a chance at surviving unscathed as heroes.
Continuing to charge after being shot versus lying down and waiting for a stretcher is the difference between fighting for your home, your people, and your way of life versus fighting to expand.
The use of expanding bullets for hunting was mentioned at the end. In my state it is illegal to use full metal jacket or NON-expanding bullets for hunting.
That rule is pretty much standard throughout the US. But what are the implications of civilians taking up arms against a foreign invader given that many are hunters and this is the only type of ammunition they have on hand?
@@davidgates1122Civilians taking up arms against foreign invaders? Did you watch too many movies? Of what use are civilians against any modern, organized army? What is this? Some US republican fantasy of some lone rangers with a handful of private ammo fighting automated drones, helicopters and tanks?
Interesting thing about modern hollow point bullets is that there is a secondary reason for their use. I personally carry Hornady Critical Defense ammunition, which was actually shown as B-roll footage in this video. The reason I, and many others prefer this type of ammunition is because if I ever had the misfortune of needing to discharge my firearm in public, I would want to strike my intended target and only that target. Full metal jacket bullets have a much higher chance at zipping straight through an attacker and accidentally striking an innocent bystander. Hollow points tend to expend their kinetic energy into what they hit and stop traveling, never leaving the original target.
This is the reason the FBI requires their carry ammunition has to be tested using ballistic gelatin to ensure that their hollow points will not over penetrate an intended target. FYI, check out Detroit Ammunition"s 9mm Interceptor rounds. They have petals that remain attached to the base, and expand to 1 1/16".
@bertkilborne6464 i had a buck live on my property for several years with several inches of an arrow sticking out of his neck. Another was shot in the side and had a scar all the way down to his belly from an infection pocket that eventually fell off. White tails can survive some crazy injuries.
Politicians: Ok, we all agree that no exploding bullets. Right? Also Politicians: Yes, we don't war to get too gruesome. Dudes who make munitions: What if we figured out how to split the atom and then cram it into a projectile or bomb? Politicians a little while later: Someone else might do this first. You guys go make that.
More like "Hey, we found a cool way for limitless energy. We pull atoms apart. Just hope we don't push them together. The US Government: *First you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention*
Politicians from your country: Hey, my country is full of people that I have taxed and lied to and ruined their way of life. Politicians from other countries: Ha! Same! Maybe we can start up a war and have them fight and k each other while we all get even more shekels! Politician from Ukraine name zelinski: Well, since I'm about 5'1" and like to dance without cloths with men in meat lockers on TV and pretend to play the piano with my privy member with other men on live TV, I wanna wear a green army shirt and pretend I'm a warrior and suffering with "my people". First you invade my country then I'll invade yours! We'll have to talk more after we hear the Rbb give us another lesson at the Sngg from the Tlmd.
It still blows my mind that a bunch of "important men" can come together and formerly agree that a weapon is too destructive to mankind and to never use it, while at the SAME TIME ordering the killing of hundreds of thousands of people in wars from which the average person will rarely gain a benefit. Never mind that the same benefit COULD have been gained from diplomacy if either group of "important men" could ignore their ego or greed for one micro-instant. On top of that, they never EVER do anything to enforce these rules! Not once has any organization ever once done anything to stop the forbidden use of weapons outside, "Stop, or else we'll write you a strong letter!"
Hollow points are good for personal self defense because it stops in the target. A bullet that passes through a target is still dangerous (like the Baldwin shooting)
@@maxstr Stanley Baldwin.............lol Stephen Baldwin...........William Baldwin..........Ireland Baldwin..........Daniel Baldwin..............Adam Baldwin..........James Baldwin to name but a few....
I'm sure the reason the prohibition against expanding bullets in war was the most widely followed was because the new types of bullets that tumbled or caused hydrostatic shock made using expanding bullets a moot point before the lack of stopping power became a widespread enough issue.
Besides it’s better stopping power, Law Enforcement agents use Hollow-point or Expanding bullets is to prevent Over-penetration from their initial target and lessen the chances of hitting an innocent bystander behind the culprit.
@@thegrandestcherokee7161maybe it's because you don't use a firearm as part of your daily work and decide to use anything less than what's best for the job. And they don't just burn through bullets on their service pistol. If you're upset about tax dollars being wasted then you should look somehwhere else.
It's also notable that expanding bullets are far less likely to over-penetrate. Making them safer when you have to worry about hitting what's behind your target.
The amount of bullet wounds on police officers from police service handguns dropped when JHP bullets were adopted. The ”bystander” endangered by overpenetration was often the police’s own partner. Using JHP is an occupational safety thing for law-enforcement. Further, it’s also safer to be on the receiving end. Bullet for bullet, hollow points cause more damage. But since the odds of stopping are better, JHP requires fewer shots to stop the threat. Getting shot twice with FMJ is far worse than to get one hit with JHP.
@@Glocktologistplease give a reference citation for your assertion that " the amount of bullet wounds on police officers from police service handguns dropped when JHP were adopted. The "bystander" endangered by over penetration was often the police's (sic) own partner ". I'm a retired LEO Range master and firearms instructor, and in 20+ years as such, I've Never heard of such a thing. Where did you find that information?
I still remember my grampa telling me about him and his buddies "modifying" their ammunition for the Jerry's in WW2. He then showed me how to make the rounds before we went out moose hunting.
My father did the same ammo modifications on 30-06 FMJ rounds in Korea. They would inspect the wounds of snipers they shot out of the trees to fine tune their mods to cause maximum damage.
@@guaporeturns9472 what are you talking about lie? My grandfather landed on Juno beach. He was canadian 3rd infantry Scottish regiment. Why would anyone lie about that?
An enemy is just an enemy, and they're entitled to protections. Us tax-slaves aren't so lucky, and can expect all kinds of terrible things to happen the moment we start getting uppity.
I was in Vietnam when they gave us the M-16. Hated it. But it's selling point was that the 55 gr .223 bullet caused more damage because it flipped when it hit flesh causing nasty wounds.
My father was a US Air Force medic stationed in South Korea in the waning of the VN War . He told me that he had seen some US personnel that had been wounded by " friendly fire " from 5.56mm NATO rounds . The wounds were terrible .
Yeah, it’s mantle is also very thin so it shatters, together with it high speed that causes a shockwave and hydrostatic shock. Bonus, the ammunition is lighter so soldiers can carry more
All bullets yaw to some degree when they hit a flesh and bone target because the bullet's weight is heavily biased to the rear. It is a myth that the .223 is somehow more deadly because of this. In testing, the 55 grain .223 yaws less than the 7.62×39mm used in the AK during the Vietnam War.
I believe the main incentive to switch from the 7.62mm (.30 caliber) rounds to 5.56mm (.22 caliber) rounds was the weight reduction. Allowing soldiers to carry more ammunition with them. The tumbling behavior of the 5.56mm rounds was encouraged in the design to compensate for the reduced kinetic energy of the smaller bullets.
@@solandri69 The main reason for the switch was because that's the ammo the AR15 used. The military switched to the M16 because an Air Force general wanted a lighter weapon for his Airmen to use while standing guard duty as they complained about the weight of the M14. He found the AR15 and liked it because it was much lighter, being made of plastic rather than wood and much smaller. He then asked the manufacturer if they could make it full auto and they said sure. He tried to get Congress to allow the Air Force to adopt it but they didn't wan't different weapons for the different service branches so he went to the Senate Armed Forces Committee and convinced them so all branches now had to use it. However the M16 failed horribly when 1st introduce because while it was easy to make the AR15 fire full auto with a simple tweak the rifle wasn't designed for that and quickly failed under the stresses of combat and many US soldiers died because their weapon ceased to operate. It was a full auto version of a civilian rifle, one meant for a person to plunk a few rounds down range then go home and clean it before storing it in their closet until they got the itch to shoot again. It couldn't handle the rigors of combat, not only being fired full auto in quick succession but also the moisture and dirt. It took the Marine Corps to take the M16 to their armory in Quantico , VA, and heavily modify it in order for it to become a decently reliable combat weapon. The whole lighter ammo so soldiers could carry more was a bit of a BS selling point to politicians because you are still only going to be able to carry so many magazines no matter the size of the round they contain.
As an American, I can assure you that expanding bullets are best for self defense and hunting. In the case of self defense it helps keep the projectile from exiting your target and possibly hurting someone behind them, therefore minimizing damage to bystanders. In the case of hunting it causes the projectile to dump all the kinetic energy into the animal destroying their heart and lungs. This lets them die faster and keeps them from slowing bleeding out and suffering. Plus 5.56mm and 5.45mm yaws and is very devastating to the enemy, while not killing them quickly. That is why in the middle east they call the 5.45mm bullet the poison bullet. It makes people die slowly.
The person loading the rifle starting at 1:50 is making three grievous mistakes. First he covers the muzzle with his hand while pouring the powder in. A practice that sometimes causes serious burns when the powder "cooks off" because of a lingering ember from the previous shot. Second he pushes the bullet fully into the bore with his thumb, which he will lose if the powder hesitates before cooking off. Finally he shoves the ramrod to seat the bullet, this time getting part of his hand over the muzzle. In my decades of shooting .58 caliber Rifle-Muskets in competition I have seen number of cook offs. I've seen a ramrod penetrate half its length through an overhead beam when the rifle cooked off. While scorched and bruised the hand was not more seriously damaged because our organization followed strict safety rules and had safety officer monitoring all shooting.
@@felixthecat265 100% accurate These are the rules for loading a muzzle loader in N-SSA completion: The N-SSA has been shooting Civil War arms in competition for 150 years, so there is a great deal of actual experience in shooting them. These rules are enforced by a safety officer watching the competitors during an event. Their job is to correct people doing it wrong and stop them if necessary. 20.2 LOADING MUZZLE-LOADING SHOULDER ARMS The loading of muzzleloading arms shall be done in accordance with the prescribed movements of the military drill regulations of the Civil War. The following precautions shall be observed: a. Loading shall commence with the butt of the firearm on the ground or on the foot of the skirmisher and the hammer down on the last cap fired. b. Powder charges shall be placed in the muzzle so that the hand does not remain in the line of fire. c. Projectiles shall be held between forefinger and thumb and placed in the muzzle so that the hand does not enter the line of fire. d. No part of the body shall be used to start the bullet into the bore. e. The palm of the hand shall not be placed over the end of the rammer while ramming. f. If the rammer is returned to the piece, it should be pulled down by the little finger, keeping the hand out of the line of fire. g. The ramrod shall not be placed flat on the ground between shots and at no time shall it be placed in a location that would necessitate or permit the competitor to place his body or head in front of the muzzle while loading. h. The ramrod may be held in the hand, leaned against the body, stuck in the top of a shoe or a boot, leaned against a bayonet or edged weapon of the period, leaned against a telescope stand, or stuck in the ground rather than being returned to the piece between shots. i. No other ramrod holders are permitted. j. Pointing the muzzle behind the firing line is prohibited. g. The arm shall not be capped or primed until the loading procedure has been completed:
@@felixthecat265 embers causing powder to prematurely in black powder muzzle loaders are very much possible. There's a reason why barrels were swabbed out with water in between cannon shots on pretty much every single cannon ever made. The fouling builds up a lot faster than you'd think.
I've been building, shooting, and repairing muzzleloading guns since the 1970s.. most of my experience has been hunting with them, although I did do a fair bit of living history. When you're shooting in an NMLRA event, you must use ALL facets of muzzleloading safety as the gentleman is describing. You should also practice these, when hunting with muzzleloading guns. One other thing that irks me, don't stick your thumb in the muzzle to start the bullet.. First thing is, if it went off it will blow your thumb off, and it could. Second thing is, I can't tell you how many guns I've seen over the years, with eroded rifling in the muzzles, I'm sure partially from people sticking their fingers/thumbs in the muzzles. I've seen that at many gun shows too, where people come up to muzzleloading rifles, and stick their fingers in the muzzles. I just had to get that in here, because it ticks me off.
There is another reason for use of hollow points in law enforcement, other than taking down target as quickly as possible. Hollow points loose their kinetic energy on impact through deformation and therefor they are much less prone for ricocheting. Another very effective type of bullet for law enforcement, with zero ricochets, is sintered bullet that fragments upon impact. Those bullets are devastating for soft tissues but very safe to use in heavily crowded areas as the bullet can not travel through it's target or ricochet from hard structures if the target is missed. Also the fragments from sintered bullet are so small they oppose practically no threat against bystanders.
@@derekstein6193 Yes and No, OP also mentioned the fact that hollow points don't ricochet like FMJ rounds would, making even missing with hollow points slightly safer than missing with other rounds.
In this slug context perhaps but not more broadly, there's a gigantic moral difference between proportionate violence vs butchery, targeting a declared enemy vs targeting women & kids, etc. Or as the old action thriller 'The Hunted' put it, 'hunters vs sweepers,' the hunter of a specific target vs those who sweep the horizon clear of all life. Morally the 2 are opposites imo.
In Germany the police is using "Deformationsgeschosse", that are almost like dum-dum Ammo. But because the upper part of the "bullet" is a piece of yellow plastic, the whole thing is "of course" not dum-dum ammo and "totaly" humane. That kind of ammo is handed out due to the fact that there is almost no chance of any "pass-thru" shots that could hit anyone or anything. And sometimes somehow the cops "aim" for someones legs and hit the back of said persons head, turning that into an exploding watermelon. That happend in bavaria a few years ago...
Police forces to this day use hollow point to minimise bullets going through target and hitting non-targets behind. And in hunting they're still used daily, they're just banned for war nothing else.
Correct. A British arsenal near the town of Dum-Dum India. India is where the word "sniper" developed from the snipe bird. If you could hit a snipe, you were a sniper.😃
A well done video. It delves into the topic of stopping power of pistol and rifle rounds. I was unaware of the hydrostatic shock effect of the German Mauser 7.92 round.
Very well researched. I must say. This level of accuracy in presenting the topic I would usually only expect from specific channels like bloke on the range or C&R'senal chapeau! 👍
It's worth mentioning most of those tribes like the Zulu and others used drugs or mushrooms and didn't feel pain because they were high. That's why they were able to keep fighting after being shot.
Moros went a step further and not only took painkilling drugs, they also tightly wrapped their bodies to slow bleeding. The US military's experiences against the Moros were the impetus for the design and adoption of the Colt M1911.
It doesn't help when they believe that if their side loses, their entire tribe will be killed or at least driven away. It's not much use to drop and wait for someone to load you up on a stretcher when no one is coming. If you know you're dying no matter what, you're gonna drag as many as possible of the opponent's forces with you.
@@benn454 Much of the design direction of the 1911 was influenced by the fact that some officers and soldiers had gone back to older blackpowder .45 caliber revolvers, which were found to perform quite a lot better in the Philippines than the new smokeless .38 caliber revolvers used in that conflict, and thus what the US Army wanted was a smokeless automatic pistol, but which instead of being a .38 or even smaller caliber as was seen in many automatics, was a larger .41 or .45 caliber bullet, and which had comparable ballistics to the old M1887 Military Ball cartridge. Colt and John Moses Browning would very successfully deliver on this, cementing a number of standards in service pistol design which remain to this day. I will however offer a bit of apologism for the .38 caliber revolver in question, which certainly wasn't particularly powerful, but it A), was not the most accurate revolver by its design, and B), had a notoriously heavy double-action trigger, which would be difficult to shoot accurately with (and handguns are never as easy to shoot as rifles or shotguns), so I suspect that quite a lot of reported cases of dramatic underperforming were in fact misses.
Pretty sure that today you just use hollow points. It´s the same principle. Hit surface intact, deform or even break apart in the target. Maximum internal damage.
In their attempts to ban a weapon that they considered to be horrific and inhumane, they directly caused the creation of an arguably more gruesome weapon in order to circumvent that regulation, something which would never had needed to be employed had said shortsighted regulation never been implemented in the first place. As is always the case, including the modern day, people attempting to legislate weapons don't actually know how they work, or the nature of conflict, and ultimately end up making things worse with their whining.
A prime example why the last people you should let decide things are politicians and what we now call "NGO's". Yet entire populations are still proud to have voted ... *Every* single time they fall for it and think they have done the right thing :DDD ... until one day reality catches up with them ...
Can't they plate all bullets with lead, no matter what its made of? For example, a tungsten bullet could be plated with lead, to save wear on the barrel
The damage a . 54 Cal. soft lead musket ball does when it hits hard tissue and continues through soft tissue and then through whatever else it hits it DEVASTATING. More so than a lot of modern cartridges. We're talking nearly fist-sized exit wounds in some cases.
That statement implies that non expanding rounds will be successful at defeating body armor which is not objectively true. Edit: the most important factor in defeating armor is speed.
Lovely video and I wish to add one thing: another reason, hollow points are used by police and by civilians is they are less likely to over penetrate a target and harm another person behind it
Absolutely classic that movie. When Jessica came onto the stage, little me knew that she was going to be my crush. Plus the song is just goose bumps forever. I still watch the movie and enjoy it every time.
I keep HST hollow points in my carry gun, and expanding rounds in the AR at home. It blows my mind that the military has agreed to use less lethal ammunition than I do.
Hearing how they amputated in the past makes my skin crawl. I mean the horror of hearing you will be subject to an amputation and without anesthesia or anything. Just horrible.
You could have mentioned that for both hunters and police overpenetration should be avoided. Soldiers may want to shoot through walls and light armour, but you don't want cops to shoot through their target and wound civilians behind them... I don't really get the fuss of the ban of deforming ammunition when landmines are still used that are DESIGNED to MAIM and not kill and WP is used against infantery...
Oh my God. Someone tried designing a weapon that didn't kill. The monsters. Don't they know dead soldiers are easier for people to forget about? How could they not know people would rather have large war graves than deal with some legless losers begging for change on a street corners? Oddly that's not the first time designers with good intentions ended up vilified for it. Russia went through the trouble of making brightly colored landmines hoping civilians would avoid them. Then got excoriated in the press for it. Chemical weapons were originally seen as a less deadly alternative. The Germans in fact thought no one would be dumb enough to sit in a trench while a slow moving chlorine gas cloud came at them. In fact at the end of WW1 chemical weapons were much less deadly than other weapons. Society just prefers dead soldiers over injured soldiers they have to look at. It's just a whole lot easier to think of thousands of soldiers dying in a day as just numbers. But when society has to see injured soldiers that's when it bothers them. It's really funny what a self centered perspective pop culture has.
If I remember correctly, land mines are banned in war. Officially, at least. That was the reason cluster munitions use in Ukraine was controversial, as the unexplored munitions act like landmines afterwords
@@DoubleRBlaxican Anti-personnel mines are banned (with an asterisk), but anti-vehicle mines are not. The idea is that a child is unlikely to set off a properly designed anti-tank mine, and if the do, they won't have the misfortune of only losing a single limb.
The Mini'e ball isnt a "dum dum " round, it is an unjacketed lead ball , the hollow in the back or the bullet is to cause it to expand into the rifling of a muzzle loading rifle, much the same as a modern air rifle pellet,. The horrendous wounding these rounds caused was due to the energy of a large, soft lead bullet travelling at a much higher velocity , due to the improved sealing of the bullet into the rifling, than earlier smoothbore muskets had been able to produce,
I'm not sure what you intended here, or more specifically why you wrote this up, but you did a good job of repeating what Simon just told us. So, congratulations?
@@JamesThompson-zk1ht the presenter is seeming to imply that the aforementioned bullet was designed to cause extreme wounding, the point I was making, although covering some ground the presenter had covered, was to reiterate the fact that the purpose of the design was to enable faster loading, wound ballistics were never considered by the inventor, therefore the inclusion of theses bullets in piece about " dum dum" rounds is spurious, as a dum dum round was specifically modified to Increase wounding effects, but a mini'e bullet was not. Thank you , however , for the congratulations!
I wanted to add what many others have. Expanding bullets in law enforcement are used so they do not over penetrate. There was a robbery in Budapest where the police used FMJs and there were a number of unintended civilian injuries due to over penetration.
Wow, this was a REALLY good video. I was aware of the Minie ball and I was vaguely aware of the Hague Convention governing the use of expanding projectiles, but this was a masterclass lesson of the entire development in a succinct video. I was particularly curious about the development of the copper jacket, and it's interesting how this lead back into the development of JHP to recapture the terminal effectiveness of the old soft lead technology. Where you could expand on this with recent developments is with the Army's new lead-free copper projectile with steel nosecone, or the simultaneous development of the Mk262/Mk318 projectiles under the Marine Corps. They're specifically designed with the Hague Convention in mind, otherwise I believe they may have gone with JHP munitions a long time ago instead of OTM (open tipped) or copper with the steel penetrator rod. The goal for both was ultimately better terminal ballistics, as the research the Army conducted demonstrated very clearly that the NATO-standard SS109 projectile fails to reliably fragment in soft tissue beneath an impact velocity of 2,500 FPS (increasingly common with the 14.5" barrel that is now standard issue in the US military, and more pressingly, the 10.5" common in SOCOM). The Army also wanted to get rid of lead, as you can imagine the sheer amount of lead littering Army ranges across the US over the decades. FWIW, they had us diligently comb every inch of the firing line for spent and unspent brass for collection (what they do with it, I have no idea).
10:40 Dude, if your musket is firing fifty MILLIMETER bullets, I feel sorry for you. (I think you meant to say "caliber") Otherwise, you're talking about a 740g (1.6lb) lead sphere. Seems kinda silly for anti-personnel ordnance.
Later models of the Focke-Wulf FW 190 German fighter plane were equipped with 50 mm autocannons that fired a specially formulated high-explosive round. Three or four direct hits would knock down a B-17.
I see the writer of this hasn't heard of 5.56 MK262, 77 grain match US military ammo. It's a hollow point. While technically designed for accuracy, what it does is fragment in the target.
@@JamesThompson-zk1ht No. I had some in Iraq, though I never shot it. "Match" ammo typically means "really accurate". It would be the type of ammo shot in matches, though in reality rarely used in them.
Yeah, Congress threw shit hissy fit when they found out what Ogival Spitzer Tip meant, and then had to be Big Bird walked through the Ballistics. It was funny.
The Mk262 uses a flat base bullet filled from the nose. There are two ways to make jacketed bullets. You start both with the jacket in the form of a copper cup and then press in the lead core. Conventional FMJ bullets are made with the tip of the bullet made from the closed end of the cup and the core exposed in the base. This limits the shape of the tip that can be formed in a die as the pressure at the tip of the die becomes very high. The tip of the die also has to have a hole for an ejection pin in it which creates a weak point and limits the sharpness of a bullet that can be made. If you make a bullet the other way and make the tip of the bullet from the open end of the jacket cup, the jacket material is thinner and you can achieve a more streamline tip. How much lead you put in the jacket and how much of a cavity is left is up to you, however most match bullets are filled up to the tip. This is why most match grade bullets such as Sierra MatchKings are made like this. The reason for the paper tip in the .303 Mk VII bullet was to improve the stability, not to increase the terminal effects (it says here...). It is also interesting that the NATO 7.62 bullet used by the Germans in the G3 rifle invariably split across the cannelure on impact! The SS109 5.56 bullet used in "Green Tip" has a steel pin behind the jacket, ostensibly to improve the ballistics but also to allow the bullet to penetrate the NATO steel helmet target on the acceptance trials. The fact that the pin causes the jacket to strip off on impact is presumably a minor issue!
gotta love how all the treaties and conventions, were and are nothing more than flashy ways to add less of rules and more of guidelines, which defense budgets find new inventive ways to loop hole around.
I only use the term "dum dum" for rounds that have aftermarket modified. Eg, cutting an x into the tip of a standard fmj or target round. Don't do this btw it's very illegal and in places where shooting in self defense is allowed hollow points are available. Also its dangerous to modify ammo. Hence "dum dum" being very appropriate.
When I was 13 (1992) we used to modify .22 magnum and .22LR into dum dums to eradicate grey kangaroos. I had no idea why we were told to do it. I can only remember using a “Japanese pull saw” to do it because the blade was very thin and very very sharp. I have not so fond memories of the saw slipping many times as I started the process on a fresh round. Those were the good old days of Australian crop protection during the droughts. 😂🇦🇺
First, the U.S. military can use hollow points, they choose not to. The portion of The Hague and Geneva Conventions that restricts soft or hollow point ammunition was not signed nor ratified by the U.S. For that reason, the U.S. military is not bound by that provision.
Fun fact on civilian and law enforcement use of Hollow points, FMJ ammo is far more likely to over penetrate. It will often pass through the target and still carry on with lethal energy that can endanger anything beyond the intended target. Hollow points and expanding ammunition will either stop within the target, or transfer most of it's energy into the target resulting in far less chance of dangerous overpenetration.
Self defense policy on a whole in all of the United States specifically ascribes the positives of using hollow-point ammunition, as both self-defense, and defense of others. If you use anything such as a jacketed or ball ammunition that passes through a target, you are potentially liable for any damages that take place to multiple individuals. It is ironic that the most effective means of stopping an individual from continuing to do you harm, is somehow blocked from being used on the battlefield.
The goal in war is to make your enemy stop fighting you. The soldiers' fear of catastrophic and horrible personal injury works very well in that regard.
... unless they are especially well motivated by e.g. religious frenzy, certain drugs, certain cultural ideals, etc. The references to the ineffectiveness of certain weaponry and ammo but only against "barbarians" and "savages" were certainly racist, but the problems were real. The statement is more generally true re: the Europeans. Elsewhere in the world that truth was much more highly variable. This has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with cultural norms, ideals, and values which are tremendously varied across the range of humanity. Even in Europe there had been e.g. the berserkers. But long before the 19th Century, groups like them had really ceased to exist, at least in any numbers; Christianity had dominated all of Europe for long enough for considerable homogeneity to have set in to a pan-European culture in which frenzy-inducing drugs and practices were discouraged, to put it mildly, as both the Church and the monarchs had a vested interest in society being controlled and controllable.
When frangible bullets were banned for the military research went into making FMJ projectiles more effective. M193 5.56x45 and 7n6 5.45x39 are arguably MORE damaging than hunting bullets of the same caliber.
Don't forget Depleted Uranium rounds still used in war. God forbid a bullet kills someone by expanding too much but radioactive bullets are juuuuuuuuuust fine.
Very few people would argue that. A good expanding bullet can provide reliable energy transfer at the distance you desire, but a FMJ is more ...random. I'm not saying they aren't effective, just not as effective. The main reason militaries use FMJs is to defeat armor or cover, not for their effects on "soft" targets.
@@acem82 The main reason militaries use FMJ's is because open lead bullets are banned under international treaties. Did you not watch the video? I already knew this by the way, I learned it when I was a kid in the 80's.
@@robo5013 1. Expanding bullets are used in the US military, see MK 262. 2. Militaries would ignore that if they thought the absolute performance was significantly better. In reality, for a military, FMJ is better all around, because it performs good enough in a soft target, but also defeats lots of cover better than expanding bullets do.
@@acem82 Once again, the only reason FMJ was created was to comply with international treaties. Any performance properties were ones that were engineered after their adoption.
Expanding bullets are also used because they stop in the target and don’t hit unintended ones behind them. That’s why they’re recommended for home defence use
Law enforcement also has a secondary reason to use expanding ammunition, it is supposed to stay in the first target you hit and not threaten potential innocent bystanders behind the target.
The minni ball was actually heavier than a round musket ball. They traveled all the way through a person not because they were lighter and therefore faster but because they were heavier and the increased mass has more potential energy when in motion that becomes kinetic energy when acted against there by increasing its terminal ballistics.
Sorry? "potential energy when in motion" ? That is already Kinetic Energy. Potential Energy is what it says. Potential (or stored). Did you study physics? Kinetic Energy is 0.5mV^2 => means velocity squared is much more important than mass in determining the energy. i.e. double the mass, you double the kinetic energy. But, double the velocity and you quadruple the kinetic energy. So better to have a half the mass and double the velocity (which is has same momentum) but then you get twice the K.E. in flight.
@jarrodcomins2399 1) The constants are there to make the formulas work with particular units. Your formula is not more correct than his. It's already undergone a unit conversion to make the answer come out in foot-pounds (I think) rather than joules (IIRC). 2) Minie. There should be an accent mark over the e, but not on this phone keyboard. That was someone's name, not short for miniature. 3) "...thereby increasing its ballistics." Huh? How does one increase its ballistics? Or decrease them, for that matter? What does this mean? What does the word ballistics mean to you? Maybe you should do some reading. Because it's evident that this is just one of several words, phrases, and concepts that you've been using while having no idea what they mean, and consequently, your conclusions are also wrong. You know, GIGO - Garbage In, Garbage Out. Sorry, but I have no patience for people who are ignorant but think they're smart and knowledgeable. I'm ignorant of a whole variety of things, but I make it a point of honesty and integrity to be aware of my limitations, to admit to them, and to act accordingly.
Yep density/mass. The higher grains of the lead/etc. that’s why you can have an air rifle firing a copper thin pellet that is .22 cal at 800 fps but fire a .22 cal dense lead bullet at the same velocity & it will have way more energy.
I would like to point out that often for law enforcement and personal protection here in The United States of America the use of hollow point ammunition is not simply because it tends to deliver more damage but also because it reduces penetration. As the individual firing a weapon is responsible for everything that exits the weapon, it makes more sense to go with the ammunition type that is not only widely available and effective, but also delivers lethality more on the target and reduce the possibility of injury to bystanders.
3:18 Miniè balls are neither lighter nor faster than their roundball counterparts. Their increased weight (typically 2-3× the weight of a roundball), conical design, and accompanying increased ballistic coefficient coupled with stability aided by rifling is what made them so lethal on the battlefield.
I suspect the reference he read to make this video was referring to the 75 cal Brown Bess round balls (approx 600gr) as compared to 58 cal Miniè balls (400-500gr).
My Great Grandfather was shot in the head by one of these in WW2. The bullet entered through his eye and expanded in his skull before coming out of his neck. He managed to pick himself up and walk to the field hospital on his own feet. He got evacuated via medical airplane and lived. He was a Romanian soldier and was shot by a Red Army sniper, I believe during the Battle of Odessa. If I remember correctly, the Red Army had dum-dum bullets of 7.62×54 caliber for their quad anti aircraft Maxim machineguns, which they used alongside conventional, explosive and incendiary bullets to deal more damage to aircraft. Soviet snipers began using them in their Mosin Nagant sniper rifles of the same caliber because of their lethality. I heard though I couldn't tell you for certain that they also made their own DIY variants by drilling into the bullet and carving notches down the lenght of it, so it might have been that.
When rifling first came in the patch, which wrapped around the ball, sealed the load and rode the lands transferring the spin. The first revolvers used slightly larger balls which left a thin ring of lead behind when pressed into the chamber. Smokeless powder burns where black powder explodes. Thus the increase in temperature and chamber pressure.
It was never banned but it was taken off the market by the company. They were redesigned slightly and left copper colored but essentially the same round is still sold. I know from personal experience that pathologists did not like the black talon because it left very sharp edges to the petals that would cut them when found during autopsies. True story!
It is ironic that because of the Geneva Conventions soldiers guarding military sites can't use pepper spray on e.g. a drunken oaf trying to enter protected area but have to use lethal force. This is why sometimes military use civilian private security instead of military guards
what?? who gave you that idea "soldiers guarding military sites can't use pepper spray on e.g. a drunken oaf trying to enter protected area but have to use lethal force. This is why sometimes military use civilian private security instead of military guards"
One advantage of hollow point ammunition is shallower penetration. It's safer to use when you want to shoot something in a confined or busy environment and don't want rounds flying through a target and potentially hitting something else down range. That was a very interesting history lesson. Thank you.
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this episode was pretty "DUM" Kappa pretty cool history. now i wanna add that dum dums and hollow points are available to civilians and are quite commonly used for self defense and home defense ammo types.
0:13 "escape into the animated ghetto..." Ghetto!?!
Brain begins to scan memory for both the colloquial and literal definition of ghetto. 😢 Oh no! It literally was.
Today I found out one of my favorite childhood movies prominently displayed an apartheid system with only a surface level criticism of it.
I was thinking of a Sisters of Mercy song. Forgot about Roger Rabbit
@@zr6671 Yes, the glee that you hear from certain proponents of this ammunition makes one suspect that they are either divorced from the realities of warfare, or leaning on the scale of psychopathy.
There are people who argue that "mushrooming" or any other form of expanding bullet prevents over penetration which would harm innocent bystanders behind the target. They will also argue this allows you to fire if you were rounds to end the threat. However, counterpoint what happens when you miss? A hypothetical innocent is still hit, but with far graver consequences.
Jacketed boolit had more to do with lead projectiles physically breaking apart and disintegrating into a bunch of pieces from the several fold times higher pressure of smokeless powder. Rubin's research wasn't really useful until the lebel and it's smokeless powder in 1886. The 1880s pace of firearm development was as if we went from modern technology to freaking Lazer beams in 5 years.
"Ban those brutal bullets from war!" -
Richard Gruber, German Flamethrower Unit
1915 Verdun
Flamethrowers were incredibly dangereous for the ones using them too, and they at least had to get very very close. With dum dum bullets you could cripple and horribly kill enemies from very far away. That is the difference (even tho flamethrowers of course were a horrible weapon, that also should have been banned from this planet)
Richard Gruber "Atleast my flamethrower keeps the warm ja!"
tbf everyone used flamethrowers during that time
@@guyloser2yeah that’s blatantly false
No it isn't? @@fordakacar
I found out what a Dum-Dum was when I was about 5-6 and played Duke Nukem on my Nintendo 64. I then got on the internet and looked up what it was... Turns out they were just early hollow-points "expanding bullets" like the one in my childhood varmint rifle.
Thank you internet and lack of parental supervision, you were and still are "to some degree" the best teacher.
Had to ask my dad. I used to play duke nukem on Ten. Windows 95 and dial up days.
Great game, 'shake em baby'
@@cbk0485 I play it now with Eduke32 and RedNukem 64... IMO Duke 64 is a better version just because of the weapons and alternate ammo.
The dual MP5K in Duke 64 can target 2 different aliens at the same time unlike the Ripper and the Plasma Cannon can fire a nuke while the freezer is just a worse machine gun in the original game.
@@TheStrayHALOMAN I'll have to check that out. I used to play on PS4 but the lobbies have been empty for years. I will say duke nukem 64 probably was the best.
Dum dum bullets aren't hollow point but large blunt soft points with a good bit of lead exposed in the nose. From dum dum india. I've got a few original rnds😊
I clicked on this video thinking "By God, you WILL NOT miss the chance to bring up the Who Framed Roger Rabbit" Dum-Dum scene. Bravo and my immense gratitude to you that you opened up with it! It made my (otherwise roughly started) day.
What he left out was another form of "Dum Dum" Where one would remove the bullet and seat it backwards so the flat base of the bullet points forward. The flat base alone proved a larger would channel but the jacket all too often did not cover the base leading to expansion. These bullets had no accuracy at range thus duplicating the Dum Dums in the cartoon not knowing which direction to travel
This video was suggested to me under a sci-show episode about ancient roman lead and was full of references to WFRR?.
@@EveseptirSame here lol!
Hope your day got better dude
I forgot about Roger Rabbit, I just remember the Dum Dum scene in one of the Lethal Weapon movies.
Giant bullet that takes off your arm: Civilized
Giant bullet that takes off your arm while exploding: Utterly beneath us
Funny but the reality is when the bullets would explode inside it could damage more organs than just you know that so people would bleed out from the inside it was very very f***** up. The fact that Lincoln of all people thought that was a good idea and humane is absolutely laughable to me.
One leaves you with most of a shoulder, the other ensures your shoulder will never work again.
Considering the surgeons bein unwashed idiots usin mercury as a cure all... Think id rather get the dum dum to the dome.
@@lucas23453 fairly certain both left the shoulder unusable for life...
@@NarutoMagicCyclops I suppose. I wonder what the psychological effects of an exploding round vs one that just expands would be though? Like, are you more mentally wounded if you heard a loud bang and saw your arm sever?
I really like that quote from Major General Sir John. He completey believed the point of war was not to kill, and couldnt understand why wounded men wouldnt want to get treated. He even implied it was the goal of shooters to wound and not kill.
wounded soldiers would cost more to treat than dead soldiers, so it makes sense
Reminded me of the (truly) unbelievable lengths the Germans went to to avoid killing in WW2; and their treatment of POWs as opposed to the extreme barbarity of the allies treatment of POW's (Do read into it; there is a great deal of information). One that comes readily to mind is how the Germans sent many pleas for peace and allowed their citizen centers to be bombed day and night for about 100 days before they ever fired one shot in self defense in that war; vs the allies (who allied with the same people that are responsible for the Holodomor - while it was still ongoing...) and bombed the German people, the people, not the military - in Germany; for about 100 days and nights without the Germans ever retaliating. Good thing the good guys won; otherwise the US would have an official language that isn't Spanish. I bet the saying in Germany today goes "at least we're not speaking German.".
The thinking was, wound one, and it takes 2 others to gurney him out of the Action. Thus removing 3 for one shot. But we know that was flawed thinking, hmmm? Carry on.
Sometimes the men pointed off to go engage in this destruction have more humanity for those on the opposing the trench line than those who send them. after all, so often those that send them never go themselves... A distinction seemingly lost on those who "thank" others for service upon returning
I imagine the courtly British language for that exchange: "I say old boy, I've shot you fair and square! Just lie down like a good chap and I won't have to cry 'foul' and have your name taken down. We can't have a decent war with people running around killing each other now can we? Pip pip, cheerio."
All this talk about civilized rules of warfare reminds me of the line from Princess Bride
“You mean, you'll put down your rock and I'll put down my sword, and we'll try and kill each other like civilized people?”
Not really, during warfare bullets killing the target used to be a pretty rare outcome... If they even hit that is, which was also relatively rare, still remains to be the case if you look at bullets fired vs mortalities even in modern wars. If anything, it's surprising to hear about the humane intent of those people, and makes me wonder what would happen if they where the ones left in charge instead of the big government taking over the world starting with WW1 with it's insane policies and money printing, allowing for much bigger and more inhumane wars to be had, along with insane propaganda starting about the other side being evil, instead of the old understanding of it being a mere conflict, which was but an unfortunate occurance but did NOT dehumanize the other side, making wars prior to WW1 shorter, smaller, more humane and less bitter.
Princess bride? Never heard of it.
@@DreadPirateRobertz I can tell.
@@mkzhero Shorter? Have you read history? There is a war that is called the Hundred Year War in Europe. Want to guess why it got that name? There was no civility to war and there never has been. There was an attempt during the Age of Enlightenment through to the early 20th century to attempt to add some civility to it and prevent directions and weapon trends that would result in mass civilian casualties along with trying to make it more humane, but it has failed at doing that now.
High explosives and electronics caused that. Asymmetric warfare as well.
That's exactly what it is. Talk. Not for the benefit of those who have to fight in wars, but for the benefit of the citizens back home who are represented by their home team abroad.
Anything goes at the end of the day. I wonder if such summits have always been a bunch of hot air, or if that only applies to our current summits.
In the words of Morty
"Yeah peace summits are great, we're really drooowwning in peace right now"
11:25 "Dude, I shot you, you're out" "nuh uh"
When I was a kid, we used BB guns so there was no doubt. Can't argue with the welt it produced. We wore safety goggles so it was safe :P
Also played with lawn darts for the first time when I was 2 years old. It was a different time.
@@Lurch-BotI had a friend get a bb lodged in his ear and it was so scary/hilarious
@@Lurch-Botyeah that's a different place too 😂 giving kids bb guns and telling them they can shoot each other is unbelievable
@@wyleFTW you're gaslighting, he said nothing about being instructed to shoot each other with bb guns. smh
@@k-tz5jg I'm not gaslighting what's up with you weirdos and GaSlIgHtInG but you're right that I misunderstood his comment he said nothing about his parents knowing they were shooting each other with bb guns lol
The CO for my Cadet Corps was a University History Professor in the CIC: and one night he had to fill in for our RSM teaching the Green Stars (Newbies) and I remember him getting side tracked and forgetting he was talking to a bunch of 12 year olds and got really in depth describing what a Dum-Dum Bullet and a bunch of other horrific MODs that could be made to weaponry that were outlawed under various War Crime Pacts.
I think he emotionally scarred a few of my fellow Green Stars that night with the detail of what a bullet tumbling end over end after fired can do to its target. I know my brain has dressed that moment up a lot in the 25 years since but it's a hilarious moment to recall: just seeing this happy white haired old man with rosy cheeks and a curly waxed mustache; telling a room full of a kids about horrific war crimes in this cheerful, chipper, and brutally honest manner.
They aren't crimes before being outlawed.
In the words of the fat electrician "Its never a warcrime the first time"@GeoffreyPitman523
@@GeoffreyPitman523 I mean in the cases he was talking about I am pretty sure most of them where. His main area of study for History was late 19th to mid 20th century British Empire/Commonwealth warfare, so most of his stories were Boer War to just after WW2.
But you make a fair point in context to the history of the dum-dum bullet lol
It's astonishing how humanity always persists in creating and developing tools of its own destruction!
Thats awful...so uh where could I find info on those mods to make 👀
Ah civilized warfare. Fast-forward… Flamethrowers
and mustard gas
Nukes and Hydrogen Bombs
and "toe poppers", FPVs and Drones controlled by women on boats.
And napalm
@@whitemiasma5288 I feel like the comment about the drone pilots being women was a bit unnecessary my guy
The irony of dictating the manner in which people kill each other is not lost on me.
Im guessing you aint voting blue then
@@ThirtytwoJ Explain?
@@ThirtytwoJ This is an international channel. Which blue are you referring too? American or international where blue is red, and red is blue
As weird as it is, it makes sense. In theory, if you care about your soldiers you don't want them to suffer. It makes sense to create rules where you don't needlessly torture your enemies and they don't needlessly torture you.
@@Americanbadashh they do like to switch things up on us like that in the US...
Huh, learn something new every day. I always thought Dum-dum was the nickname for hollowpoint rounds because it was an "Empty head" a dumb round.
Nope, named after the first factory to make them.
My step father was a weapons engineer, I got BOTH explanations, he was a great 'consultant' to have on hand for films like Die Hard, RoboCop, Bond or Hunt for Red October 😅
The first time that I encountered the term was in Ian Fleming's book "The Man with the Golden Gun".
In the text, a "dum dum bullet" was a regular round that the shooter had added an "X" to the tip of the round using a sharp knife. As a result, dum dum bullets would expand once they exited the barrel of a firearm.
For some reason a man called his Labrador that.
Certainly it didn't wear a muzzle.
I had heard that for a while "dum dum" became slang for any expanding bullet
9:30 the stop motion video of cartidges trying to climb into the gun... 😂😂😂
Fun thing is that I have very much the same weapon plus that same type of 3 round N-clip in my collection and I could litterally imagine how there must have been some prototypical early 20th century nerd with a moustache tinkering around with his wooden box camera and those 2 objects on his kitchen table
I too found this extremely interesting. For the time it was probably the most effective way to actually illustrate how the rounds were loaded. It is extremely strange seeing stop motion being applied for something as serious as weapons demonstration.
Guns don't kill people. Bullets with a mind of their own climb into the gun.
I was waiting for Gumbie and Pokie to appear
The linage of anti-material rounds being deployed in the anti-personnel role continues to this day.
Mk211 came to mind immediately.
Modern intermediate rifle rounds make The Hague conventions obsolete anyway.
Belt buckles are material!!!!
Cluster bombs were originally invented to destroy runways.
The circumference of material squares being withdrawn in the pro-personnel neglect ceases until yesterday.
Whilst full metal jacket bullets are used against humans because they don't mushroom, in hunting animals soft tipped lead bullets are used as they're more likely to kill quickly rather than leaving a mortal wound which could cause days of suffering.
Wrong.
Years, life times. I've caught and taken animals in to have surgery that had BBs from various weapons and other lasting injuries from people, years old. Hunting is sick and twisted, and in nearly all cases reserved for perverts. There is plenty of food, and there is no place on the earth that can support any "normal" population by hunting. Also, what most people call hunting is just stupid people shooting at animals in the yard. There is really some thing wrong with the mind of man that sees and animal and thinks "hey, I'll aim a gun at that thing and trigger it off.". I don't care who says what, that is some form of a sexual perversion. It is a strange thing that the man works his whole life and is told he is free yet knowing he is not, then upon seeing the little critter that is truly free, the man wants to cause more of the misery that he himself is in (probably the same phenomenon that causes men to disappear and allow their wife to sigh papers and have their sons circumsized; the fact that that is even done to any man in any nation is the highest disgrace. For the generations to come, men, I'd entreat you all to look at a the truth (medical journals and root it all the way down to the root - it is a blood letting ritual.) and stop. The animal has to work every day, for many, as hard as they can; then they have to deal with that to the point they only fiddle around in the dark of night; I'm sure most animals love that they have to hide and be afraid all all the time.
That and, I've read the Good Book, the most high GOD made all the animals, they all belong to him; I know what I'd feel like if someone hurt one of mine. GOD hates hunters. Romans 9:13
I've also heard that expanding rounds are also used by police under some circumstances, because they generally stay in the target as opposed to passing right through, which reduces the risk of wounding bystanders, hostages and similar.
@@simtexa in ALL circumstances police use them, some of you know absolutely nothing about guns
@@Daniel-qe8qe Your reply was less than useful. It was purposely misleading.
3:48 Space Marine bolter rounds were invented in 1857.
Must've made Khorne pretty happy.
Excellent
😂
The first galactic empire is stronger than the Imperium of Man
For the Napoleon!
The quote about the barbarian not understanding the proper course of action once shot is less dated language and more low key dry gallows humor.
Exactly. Sounds like something a Monty Python character might say.
I think he meant dated language as in calling them barbarians.
@@SmashPortal Dated language, meaning when war was a gentlemen's career with suicidal rules of honor. Like marching straight onto a line of enemies firing at them.
@SmashPortal what other term would you use to describe Stone Age civilizations?
@@logicisdead9871Stone Age my guy?
3 rounds a minute?
'Pfft! Noobs!'
-- Richard Sharpe, 95th Rifles.
That’s not soldiering.
There's 40 Shillings on the drum, for those who volunteer to come...
GOD SAVE IRELAND!!!!!!
@@acidz0037Louder
@@acidz0037
That is applicable to many countries today.
“You are technically correct, the best kind of correct.”
Banned from war. Wouldn't want war to be too horrific. Enlistment might start to drop.
Thats not how humans work. Poor people will always enlist because they're lied to, thinking their "service" is honorable and they have a chance at surviving unscathed as heroes.
@@earlgrey2130 *Exhales smoke* *_maaaaaaaaaaaan_*
@@earlgrey2130 Most people have to be threatened to fight. They are even more reluctant when they don't like their own rulers.
Continuing to charge after being shot versus lying down and waiting for a stretcher is the difference between fighting for your home, your people, and your way of life versus fighting to expand.
The use of expanding bullets for hunting was mentioned at the end. In my state it is illegal to use full metal jacket or NON-expanding bullets for hunting.
Gubberment wants you to poison your game meat with Lead.
This is the same Government who wants dentists to give you flouride...
It's the same in several European countries iirc. The hunters I know all use soft-points.
That rule is pretty much standard throughout the US. But what are the implications of civilians taking up arms against a foreign invader given that many are hunters and this is the only type of ammunition they have on hand?
@@davidgates1122Civilians taking up arms against foreign invaders? Did you watch too many movies? Of what use are civilians against any modern, organized army?
What is this? Some US republican fantasy of some lone rangers with a handful of private ammo fighting automated drones, helicopters and tanks?
@@miskatonic6210 Tell that to the Taliban.
Interesting thing about modern hollow point bullets is that there is a secondary reason for their use. I personally carry Hornady Critical Defense ammunition, which was actually shown as B-roll footage in this video. The reason I, and many others prefer this type of ammunition is because if I ever had the misfortune of needing to discharge my firearm in public, I would want to strike my intended target and only that target. Full metal jacket bullets have a much higher chance at zipping straight through an attacker and accidentally striking an innocent bystander. Hollow points tend to expend their kinetic energy into what they hit and stop traveling, never leaving the original target.
This guy EDCs.
This is the reason the FBI requires their carry ammunition has to be tested using ballistic gelatin to ensure that their hollow points will not over penetrate an intended target.
FYI, check out Detroit Ammunition"s 9mm Interceptor rounds. They have petals that remain attached to the base, and expand to 1 1/16".
@parkswhite Sweet Jesus that sounds brutal. I'll check em out
@@grindcoreninja6527 Always got that rooty-tooty-point-and-shooty on me
Same
In America, most big game hunting bans FMJ ammunition because it often doesn’t kill quickly or effectively.
I've seen the possibility of the bullet continuing into the neighboring county sited as a reason as well.
Wild animals have a higher pain threshold and are more difficult to kill that we humans.
My understanding is that these laws are for over Penetration.
@bertkilborne6464 i had a buck live on my property for several years with several inches of an arrow sticking out of his neck. Another was shot in the side and had a scar all the way down to his belly from an infection pocket that eventually fell off. White tails can survive some crazy injuries.
Attrition isn’t an effective means of hunting
Politicians: Ok, we all agree that no exploding bullets. Right?
Also Politicians: Yes, we don't war to get too gruesome.
Dudes who make munitions: What if we figured out how to split the atom and then cram it into a projectile or bomb?
Politicians a little while later: Someone else might do this first. You guys go make that.
More like "Hey, we found a cool way for limitless energy. We pull atoms apart. Just hope we don't push them together.
The US Government: *First you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention*
“It’s fine, they’ll just be a skid mark on the ground, no additional suffering inflicted. What the fuck this rae-dee-ashun”
@@FTW1230 it’s fine, probably gives the strong super powers. The weak are not our concern. On a side note, why am I 250% cancer?
Politicians from your country: Hey, my country is full of people that I have taxed and lied to and ruined their way of life.
Politicians from other countries: Ha! Same! Maybe we can start up a war and have them fight and k each other while we all get even more shekels!
Politician from Ukraine name zelinski: Well, since I'm about 5'1" and like to dance without cloths with men in meat lockers on TV and pretend to play the piano with my privy member with other men on live TV, I wanna wear a green army shirt and pretend I'm a warrior and suffering with "my people". First you invade my country then I'll invade yours! We'll have to talk more after we hear the Rbb give us another lesson at the Sngg from the Tlmd.
It still blows my mind that a bunch of "important men" can come together and formerly agree that a weapon is too destructive to mankind and to never use it, while at the SAME TIME ordering the killing of hundreds of thousands of people in wars from which the average person will rarely gain a benefit. Never mind that the same benefit COULD have been gained from diplomacy if either group of "important men" could ignore their ego or greed for one micro-instant.
On top of that, they never EVER do anything to enforce these rules! Not once has any organization ever once done anything to stop the forbidden use of weapons outside, "Stop, or else we'll write you a strong letter!"
that's SHOWBIZ baby
the 400 gram no explosive bullet was, nerve gas is not seen on wide scale, biologicals. When they did, it had huge implications. Remember Sadam?
@@corbeau-_- forget sadam, remember israel? Oh wait.
The irony of being so diplomatic in how they faught wars but not so much as to why
Fought.
i think you are american
@@Daniel-qe8qe faught
@@mr.manguyfellow fought
@@Daniel-qe8qe phoght
Hollow points are good for personal self defense because it stops in the target. A bullet that passes through a target is still dangerous (like the Baldwin shooting)
Alec Baldwin??
@@maxstr Stanley Baldwin.............lol Stephen Baldwin...........William Baldwin..........Ireland Baldwin..........Daniel Baldwin..............Adam Baldwin..........James Baldwin to name but a few....
Always gotta go there , huh ...
@@paulyjones3966what, bring up the fact that Alec Baldwin skated on murdering someone and wounding someone else?
@@chrisb4131He killed someone, he didn't murder them. Kill and murder aren't synonymous.
Not even five seconds into the video, Simon called the movie, "Who _Filmed_ Roger Rabbit" - what a dum-dum.
He's never seen it. Simon, if you read this you must go watch that movie. It's pretty good.
@@The_Govermnent Name of the movie is "Who Framed Roger Rabbit." Roger's alive the whole movie. Go watch it.
@@The_Govermnentthe title is 'who FRAMED R.R.' Dum-Dum.
@@duhstydncgto be fair, the original title was indeed a reference to ending the rabbit, the whole story about the movie is crazy!! check it out!
@@duhstydncg The dip kills plenty of toons though.
I'm sure the reason the prohibition against expanding bullets in war was the most widely followed was because the new types of bullets that tumbled or caused hydrostatic shock made using expanding bullets a moot point before the lack of stopping power became a widespread enough issue.
Glad to see vsauce is back making videos instead of shorts
9:50 That ought to be the most cursed pronunciation of "Lebel" that I have ever heard.
It's enough to make Gun Jesus cry
@@fidjeenjanrjsnsfh indeed :(
How... how do you pronounce it like that, i was expecting him to say maybe leebel BUT LAIBALL HOW DO YOU DO THIS
Besides it’s better stopping power, Law Enforcement agents use Hollow-point or Expanding bullets is to prevent Over-penetration from their initial target and lessen the chances of hitting an innocent bystander behind the culprit.
They also like using the most expensive ammo because they don't pay for it themselves.
@@thegrandestcherokee7161maybe it's because you don't use a firearm as part of your daily work and decide to use anything less than what's best for the job. And they don't just burn through bullets on their service pistol. If you're upset about tax dollars being wasted then you should look somehwhere else.
So the police use a weapon band for use in war for being too cruel. Sounds about right.
@@mattduncil Your understanding of this topic is *_extremely_* narrow. 🤦♂️
They still hit bystanders anyway.
It's also notable that expanding bullets are far less likely to over-penetrate. Making them safer when you have to worry about hitting what's behind your target.
The amount of bullet wounds on police officers from police service handguns dropped when JHP bullets were adopted. The ”bystander” endangered by overpenetration was often the police’s own partner. Using JHP is an occupational safety thing for law-enforcement.
Further, it’s also safer to be on the receiving end. Bullet for bullet, hollow points cause more damage. But since the odds of stopping are better, JHP requires fewer shots to stop the threat.
Getting shot twice with FMJ is far worse than to get one hit with JHP.
Ironic that the treaty was signed by “civilized” countries to ban specific weapons in time of “war” which in itself is uncivilized.
@@Glocktologistplease give a reference citation for your assertion that " the amount of bullet wounds on police officers from police service handguns dropped when JHP were adopted. The "bystander" endangered by over penetration was often the police's (sic) own partner ". I'm a retired LEO Range master and firearms instructor, and in 20+ years as such, I've Never heard of such a thing. Where did you find that information?
Rules of war are hilarious because you only get punished for breaking them if you lose.
There are no rules ....really
Rules of War are hilarious because they don't actually mean shit in a real war.
I still remember my grampa telling me about him and his buddies "modifying" their ammunition for the Jerry's in WW2. He then showed me how to make the rounds before we went out moose hunting.
Yeah that’s a complete lie. Try again 🤥
@@guaporeturns9472 It is not a lie, but a dangerous idea. You might be left with a jacket in the bore. This was done for hunting.
My father did the same ammo modifications on 30-06 FMJ rounds in Korea. They would inspect the wounds of snipers they shot out of the trees to fine tune their mods to cause maximum damage.
@@guaporeturns9472 what are you talking about lie? My grandfather landed on Juno beach. He was canadian 3rd infantry Scottish regiment. Why would anyone lie about that?
The state can't fire them into enemy soldiers but it can fill your ass with them
...and get away with it.
True.
And the more totalitarian the "state"?
The more dum dums ya get filled with.
An enemy is just an enemy, and they're entitled to protections. Us tax-slaves aren't so lucky, and can expect all kinds of terrible things to happen the moment we start getting uppity.
@@cutterboard4144 But only if you are a legal resident...
FMJ all the way.
"Last time I was front and center this early I had all my limbs intact."
Prayers for you and the infantry in your column. Got to get those reload times down.
I was in Vietnam when they gave us the M-16. Hated it. But it's selling point was that the 55 gr .223 bullet caused more damage because it flipped when it hit flesh causing nasty wounds.
My father was a US Air Force medic stationed in South Korea in the waning of the VN War . He told me that he had seen some US personnel that had been wounded by " friendly fire " from 5.56mm NATO rounds . The wounds were terrible .
Yeah, it’s mantle is also very thin so it shatters, together with it high speed that causes a shockwave and hydrostatic shock. Bonus, the ammunition is lighter so soldiers can carry more
All bullets yaw to some degree when they hit a flesh and bone target because the bullet's weight is heavily biased to the rear. It is a myth that the .223 is somehow more deadly because of this. In testing, the 55 grain .223 yaws less than the 7.62×39mm used in the AK during the Vietnam War.
I believe the main incentive to switch from the 7.62mm (.30 caliber) rounds to 5.56mm (.22 caliber) rounds was the weight reduction. Allowing soldiers to carry more ammunition with them. The tumbling behavior of the 5.56mm rounds was encouraged in the design to compensate for the reduced kinetic energy of the smaller bullets.
@@solandri69 The main reason for the switch was because that's the ammo the AR15 used. The military switched to the M16 because an Air Force general wanted a lighter weapon for his Airmen to use while standing guard duty as they complained about the weight of the M14. He found the AR15 and liked it because it was much lighter, being made of plastic rather than wood and much smaller. He then asked the manufacturer if they could make it full auto and they said sure. He tried to get Congress to allow the Air Force to adopt it but they didn't wan't different weapons for the different service branches so he went to the Senate Armed Forces Committee and convinced them so all branches now had to use it. However the M16 failed horribly when 1st introduce because while it was easy to make the AR15 fire full auto with a simple tweak the rifle wasn't designed for that and quickly failed under the stresses of combat and many US soldiers died because their weapon ceased to operate. It was a full auto version of a civilian rifle, one meant for a person to plunk a few rounds down range then go home and clean it before storing it in their closet until they got the itch to shoot again. It couldn't handle the rigors of combat, not only being fired full auto in quick succession but also the moisture and dirt. It took the Marine Corps to take the M16 to their armory in Quantico , VA, and heavily modify it in order for it to become a decently reliable combat weapon. The whole lighter ammo so soldiers could carry more was a bit of a BS selling point to politicians because you are still only going to be able to carry so many magazines no matter the size of the round they contain.
The stop motion sequence showing the loading of a rifle is a gem. Thanks to the person in charge of editing !
As an American, I can assure you that expanding bullets are best for self defense and hunting. In the case of self defense it helps keep the projectile from exiting your target and possibly hurting someone behind them, therefore minimizing damage to bystanders. In the case of hunting it causes the projectile to dump all the kinetic energy into the animal destroying their heart and lungs. This lets them die faster and keeps them from slowing bleeding out and suffering. Plus 5.56mm and 5.45mm yaws and is very devastating to the enemy, while not killing them quickly. That is why in the middle east they call the 5.45mm bullet the poison bullet. It makes people die slowly.
I've known about the Mini...Minnie...whatever ball for a lot of years, but EXPLSOIVE bullets were developed in the 1860s?? Wow!
You think that’s crazy? The maxim machine gun, the world’s first machine gun, was introduced in 1884. 7 years before the Mosin-Nagant (1891.)
yuhhhhh buddy you ain't played red dead redemption 2 yet? lmfao
First electric "car" was invented and worked in 1820.
@@PewPewParkand if you want the first automatic, 200 years before that.
Minié ball
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minié_ball
The person loading the rifle starting at 1:50 is making three grievous mistakes. First he covers the muzzle with his hand while pouring the powder in. A practice that sometimes causes serious burns when the powder "cooks off" because of a lingering ember from the previous shot. Second he pushes the bullet fully into the bore with his thumb, which he will lose if the powder hesitates before cooking off. Finally he shoves the ramrod to seat the bullet, this time getting part of his hand over the muzzle.
In my decades of shooting .58 caliber Rifle-Muskets in competition I have seen number of cook offs. I've seen a ramrod penetrate half its length through an overhead beam when the rifle cooked off. While scorched and bruised the hand was not more seriously damaged because our organization followed strict safety rules and had safety officer monitoring all shooting.
No substitute for practical experience, hmm?
99% nonsense.. good story bro...
@@felixthecat265 100% accurate These are the rules for loading a muzzle loader in N-SSA completion:
The N-SSA has been shooting Civil War arms in competition for 150 years, so there is a great deal of actual experience in shooting them. These rules are enforced by a safety officer watching the competitors during an event. Their job is to correct people doing it wrong and stop them if necessary.
20.2 LOADING MUZZLE-LOADING SHOULDER ARMS
The loading of muzzleloading arms shall be done in accordance with the prescribed movements
of the military drill regulations of the Civil War. The following precautions shall be observed:
a. Loading shall commence with the butt of the firearm on the ground or on the foot of the
skirmisher and the hammer down on the last cap fired.
b. Powder charges shall be placed in the muzzle so that the hand does not remain in the line of
fire.
c. Projectiles shall be held between forefinger and thumb and placed in the muzzle so that the
hand does not enter the line of fire.
d. No part of the body shall be used to start the bullet into the bore.
e. The palm of the hand shall not be placed over the end of the rammer while ramming.
f. If the rammer is returned to the piece, it should be pulled down by the little finger, keeping
the hand out of the line of fire.
g. The ramrod shall not be placed flat on the ground between shots and at no time shall it be
placed in a location that would necessitate or permit the competitor to place his body or
head in front of the muzzle while loading.
h. The ramrod may be held in the hand, leaned against the body, stuck in the top of a shoe or a
boot, leaned against a bayonet or edged weapon of the period, leaned against a telescope
stand, or stuck in the ground rather than being returned to the piece between shots.
i. No other ramrod holders are permitted.
j. Pointing the muzzle behind the firing line is prohibited.
g. The arm shall not be capped or primed until the loading procedure has been completed:
@@felixthecat265 embers causing powder to prematurely in black powder muzzle loaders are very much possible. There's a reason why barrels were swabbed out with water in between cannon shots on pretty much every single cannon ever made. The fouling builds up a lot faster than you'd think.
I've been building, shooting, and repairing muzzleloading guns since the 1970s.. most of my experience has been hunting with them, although I did do a fair bit of living history. When you're shooting in an NMLRA event, you must use ALL facets of muzzleloading safety as the gentleman is describing. You should also practice these, when hunting with muzzleloading guns. One other thing that irks me, don't stick your thumb in the muzzle to start the bullet.. First thing is, if it went off it will blow your thumb off, and it could. Second thing is, I can't tell you how many guns I've seen over the years, with eroded rifling in the muzzles, I'm sure partially from people sticking their fingers/thumbs in the muzzles. I've seen that at many gun shows too, where people come up to muzzleloading rifles, and stick their fingers in the muzzles. I just had to get that in here, because it ticks me off.
There is another reason for use of hollow points in law enforcement, other than taking down target as quickly as possible. Hollow points loose their kinetic energy on impact through deformation and therefor they are much less prone for ricocheting. Another very effective type of bullet for law enforcement, with zero ricochets, is sintered bullet that fragments upon impact. Those bullets are devastating for soft tissues but very safe to use in heavily crowded areas as the bullet can not travel through it's target or ricochet from hard structures if the target is missed. Also the fragments from sintered bullet are so small they oppose practically no threat against bystanders.
They are only "safe" if they hit their target.
@@derekstein6193Which is a serious problem considering how little range time most LEOs usually seek out.
@@derekstein6193 Yes and No, OP also mentioned the fact that hollow points don't ricochet like FMJ rounds would, making even missing with hollow points slightly safer than missing with other rounds.
Is that why they typically shoot 18-3000 shots every time?
Civilized warfare is a oxymoron.
Correct.
In this slug context perhaps but not more broadly, there's a gigantic moral difference between proportionate violence vs butchery, targeting a declared enemy vs targeting women & kids, etc. Or as the old action thriller 'The Hunted' put it, 'hunters vs sweepers,' the hunter of a specific target vs those who sweep the horizon clear of all life. Morally the 2 are opposites imo.
In Germany the police is using "Deformationsgeschosse", that are almost like dum-dum Ammo.
But because the upper part of the "bullet" is a piece of yellow plastic, the whole thing is "of course" not dum-dum ammo and "totaly" humane.
That kind of ammo is handed out due to the fact that there is almost no chance of any "pass-thru" shots that could hit anyone or anything.
And sometimes somehow the cops "aim" for someones legs and hit the back of said persons head, turning that into an exploding watermelon.
That happend in bavaria a few years ago...
Dutch marines used dumdum bullets to end a hostage situation in a train in the seventies. Worked like a charm!
Police forces to this day use hollow point to minimise bullets going through target and hitting non-targets behind. And in hunting they're still used daily, they're just banned for war nothing else.
In police situations expanding bullets are used. To avoid ricochets and not overpenetrating.
The original dum dum bullet was first produced at the dum dum arsenal in india and was invented by the superintendent capt berti clay and was .303 cal
Correct. A British arsenal near the town of Dum-Dum India. India is where the word "sniper" developed from the snipe bird. If you could hit a snipe, you were a sniper.😃
Rule 303!
@@jonanderson5137
In which country?
Meanwhile me literally Living in North Dum Dum Area, Kolkata, West Bengal, India 😅. Yes the same place, mentioned here.
@RitamSanyal
Ah! A real-life "dum dum."
A well done video. It delves into the topic of stopping power of pistol and rifle rounds. I was unaware of the hydrostatic shock effect of the German Mauser 7.92 round.
How incredibly rude of the enemy to not sit down after the were shot, how dare they continue to defend their land and family. How 'uncivilised ' 🙄
A very well researched and produced video, excellent work.
Very well researched. I must say. This level of accuracy in presenting the topic I would usually only expect from specific channels like bloke on the range or C&R'senal
chapeau! 👍
It's worth mentioning most of those tribes like the Zulu and others used drugs or mushrooms and didn't feel pain because they were high. That's why they were able to keep fighting after being shot.
Moros went a step further and not only took painkilling drugs, they also tightly wrapped their bodies to slow bleeding. The US military's experiences against the Moros were the impetus for the design and adoption of the Colt M1911.
It doesn't help when they believe that if their side loses, their entire tribe will be killed or at least driven away. It's not much use to drop and wait for someone to load you up on a stretcher when no one is coming. If you know you're dying no matter what, you're gonna drag as many as possible of the opponent's forces with you.
Maybe examples of people fighting under no influence what so ever.
@@benn454 Much of the design direction of the 1911 was influenced by the fact that some officers and soldiers had gone back to older blackpowder .45 caliber revolvers, which were found to perform quite a lot better in the Philippines than the new smokeless .38 caliber revolvers used in that conflict, and thus what the US Army wanted was a smokeless automatic pistol, but which instead of being a .38 or even smaller caliber as was seen in many automatics, was a larger .41 or .45 caliber bullet, and which had comparable ballistics to the old M1887 Military Ball cartridge.
Colt and John Moses Browning would very successfully deliver on this, cementing a number of standards in service pistol design which remain to this day.
I will however offer a bit of apologism for the .38 caliber revolver in question, which certainly wasn't particularly powerful, but it A), was not the most accurate revolver by its design, and B), had a notoriously heavy double-action trigger, which would be difficult to shoot accurately with (and handguns are never as easy to shoot as rifles or shotguns), so I suspect that quite a lot of reported cases of dramatic underperforming were in fact misses.
Same with Viking berserkers. Dudes were constantly geeked out on mushrooms
I find your lack of enthusiasm for Who Framed Roger Rabbit disturbing...
This is the second video today I've seen that's referenced it, which is kind of weird (the other was the SciShow episode from today).
Simon likes to get paid and Disney is cheap so.....
He also said who filmed???
you stoppit...left now!
@@slippers4xmas631 I find your obsession about Who Framed Roger Rabbit very disturbing...
Pretty sure that today you just use hollow points. It´s the same principle. Hit surface intact, deform or even break apart in the target. Maximum internal damage.
NO "treaty" or any "agreement" is BINDING IN ANYWAY unless BOTH parties signed said paperwork. So "banned" is a basically a "LIE".
In their attempts to ban a weapon that they considered to be horrific and inhumane, they directly caused the creation of an arguably more gruesome weapon in order to circumvent that regulation, something which would never had needed to be employed had said shortsighted regulation never been implemented in the first place.
As is always the case, including the modern day, people attempting to legislate weapons don't actually know how they work, or the nature of conflict, and ultimately end up making things worse with their whining.
A prime example why the last people you should let decide things are politicians and what we now call "NGO's".
Yet entire populations are still proud to have voted ...
*Every* single time they fall for it and think they have done the right thing :DDD
... until one day reality catches up with them ...
lol Simon was listening to "Lucretia, my reflection" by the sisters of mercy
good music taste!
Clicked on this video for EXACTLY that same reason!
Listen to Lucretia by Megadeth.
@@joshuagibson2520 No.
@@Based_Stuhlinger thank you dawg. they should release a new album already
Lead also had minimal wear on the barrel which was important given the metallurgy of the day.
Can't they plate all bullets with lead, no matter what its made of? For example, a tungsten bullet could be plated with lead, to save wear on the barrel
The little Berthier video around 9:35 was adorable. Thank you for sharing that find.
The damage a . 54 Cal. soft lead musket ball does when it hits hard tissue and continues through soft tissue and then through whatever else it hits it DEVASTATING. More so than a lot of modern cartridges. We're talking nearly fist-sized exit wounds in some cases.
Bullet expansion is why bullet proof armor works.
Technically true.
Bullet proof armour works because it can catch them.
That statement implies that non expanding rounds will be successful at defeating body armor which is not objectively true.
Edit: the most important factor in defeating armor is speed.
@@heraclitus6100 that's why we don't shoot needles
@@Iowa599 I'm not really sure what you're getting at with that last comment.
@@Iowa599by comparison, tungsten core rounds are Alot like a needle
Lovely video and I wish to add one thing: another reason, hollow points are used by police and by civilians is they are less likely to over penetrate a target and harm another person behind it
For some reason i only remember Jessica Rabbit in the movie .. but I played bags of time in NES game
Absolutely classic that movie. When Jessica came onto the stage, little me knew that she was going to be my crush. Plus the song is just goose bumps forever. I still watch the movie and enjoy it every time.
@@Jansson350 Jessica had nothing on Holli Would.
@@krashd Why not both? :D
I keep HST hollow points in my carry gun, and expanding rounds in the AR at home.
It blows my mind that the military has agreed to use less lethal ammunition than I do.
Hearing how they amputated in the past makes my skin crawl. I mean the horror of hearing you will be subject to an amputation and without anesthesia or anything. Just horrible.
It would be an experience to remember, that's for sure.
You could have mentioned that for both hunters and police overpenetration should be avoided. Soldiers may want to shoot through walls and light armour, but you don't want cops to shoot through their target and wound civilians behind them...
I don't really get the fuss of the ban of deforming ammunition when landmines are still used that are DESIGNED to MAIM and not kill and WP is used against infantery...
Oh my God. Someone tried designing a weapon that didn't kill. The monsters.
Don't they know dead soldiers are easier for people to forget about?
How could they not know people would rather have large war graves than deal with some legless losers begging for change on a street corners?
Oddly that's not the first time designers with good intentions ended up vilified for it.
Russia went through the trouble of making brightly colored landmines hoping civilians would avoid them. Then got excoriated in the press for it.
Chemical weapons were originally seen as a less deadly alternative. The Germans in fact thought no one would be dumb enough to sit in a trench while a slow moving chlorine gas cloud came at them.
In fact at the end of WW1 chemical weapons were much less deadly than other weapons. Society just prefers dead soldiers over injured soldiers they have to look at.
It's just a whole lot easier to think of thousands of soldiers dying in a day as just numbers. But when society has to see injured soldiers that's when it bothers them.
It's really funny what a self centered perspective pop culture has.
If I remember correctly, land mines are banned in war. Officially, at least. That was the reason cluster munitions use in Ukraine was controversial, as the unexplored munitions act like landmines afterwords
WP?
@@JamesThompson-zk1htwhite phosphorus
Nightmare stuff
@@DoubleRBlaxican Anti-personnel mines are banned (with an asterisk), but anti-vehicle mines are not. The idea is that a child is unlikely to set off a properly designed anti-tank mine, and if the do, they won't have the misfortune of only losing a single limb.
The Mini'e ball isnt a "dum dum " round, it is an unjacketed lead ball , the hollow in the back or the bullet is to cause it to expand into the rifling of a muzzle loading rifle, much the same as a modern air rifle pellet,. The horrendous wounding these rounds caused was due to the energy of a large, soft lead bullet travelling at a much higher velocity , due to the improved sealing of the bullet into the rifling, than earlier smoothbore muskets had been able to produce,
I'm not sure what you intended here, or more specifically why you wrote this up, but you did a good job of repeating what Simon just told us. So, congratulations?
Because I would rather read this than watch the long winded video
@@JamesThompson-zk1ht the presenter is seeming to imply that the aforementioned bullet was designed to cause extreme wounding, the point I was making, although covering some ground the presenter had covered, was to reiterate the fact that the purpose of the design was to enable faster loading, wound ballistics were never considered by the inventor, therefore the inclusion of theses bullets in piece about " dum dum" rounds is spurious, as a dum dum round was specifically modified to Increase wounding effects, but a mini'e bullet was not. Thank you , however , for the congratulations!
Dum-Dum has become a generic term for anything beyond military ball ammo.
The who framed Rodger rabbit disrespect was thick ouch
I wanted to add what many others have. Expanding bullets in law enforcement are used so they do not over penetrate.
There was a robbery in Budapest where the police used FMJs and there were a number of unintended civilian injuries due to over penetration.
Wow, this was a REALLY good video. I was aware of the Minie ball and I was vaguely aware of the Hague Convention governing the use of expanding projectiles, but this was a masterclass lesson of the entire development in a succinct video. I was particularly curious about the development of the copper jacket, and it's interesting how this lead back into the development of JHP to recapture the terminal effectiveness of the old soft lead technology.
Where you could expand on this with recent developments is with the Army's new lead-free copper projectile with steel nosecone, or the simultaneous development of the Mk262/Mk318 projectiles under the Marine Corps. They're specifically designed with the Hague Convention in mind, otherwise I believe they may have gone with JHP munitions a long time ago instead of OTM (open tipped) or copper with the steel penetrator rod. The goal for both was ultimately better terminal ballistics, as the research the Army conducted demonstrated very clearly that the NATO-standard SS109 projectile fails to reliably fragment in soft tissue beneath an impact velocity of 2,500 FPS (increasingly common with the 14.5" barrel that is now standard issue in the US military, and more pressingly, the 10.5" common in SOCOM). The Army also wanted to get rid of lead, as you can imagine the sheer amount of lead littering Army ranges across the US over the decades. FWIW, they had us diligently comb every inch of the firing line for spent and unspent brass for collection (what they do with it, I have no idea).
10:40 Dude, if your musket is firing fifty MILLIMETER bullets, I feel sorry for you. (I think you meant to say "caliber") Otherwise, you're talking about a 740g (1.6lb) lead sphere. Seems kinda silly for anti-personnel ordnance.
He said 15 but congrats mate you sound well clever
@@iGoDImpactZz God no, I'm a moron. Thank you for correcting me :)
I mean would you want to be hit by 50mm bullets?
Later models of the Focke-Wulf FW 190 German fighter plane were equipped with 50 mm autocannons that fired a specially formulated high-explosive round. Three or four direct hits would knock down a B-17.
50mm has great stopping power...
4:15 Early Bolter rounds? Fascinating. ^^
Very fascinating indeed now just imagine if oh I don't know the gyro jet Creator got his hands on some of those sensitive exploding bullets
Emperor protects!
I see the writer of this hasn't heard of 5.56 MK262, 77 grain match US military ammo. It's a hollow point. While technically designed for accuracy, what it does is fragment in the target.
I thought that was only used in competition - "match" being re: shooting matches. No?
@@JamesThompson-zk1ht No. I had some in Iraq, though I never shot it.
"Match" ammo typically means "really accurate". It would be the type of ammo shot in matches, though in reality rarely used in them.
Yeah, Congress threw shit hissy fit when they found out what Ogival Spitzer Tip meant, and then had to be Big Bird walked through the Ballistics. It was funny.
The Mk262 uses a flat base bullet filled from the nose. There are two ways to make jacketed bullets. You start both with the jacket in the form of a copper cup and then press in the lead core. Conventional FMJ bullets are made with the tip of the bullet made from the closed end of the cup and the core exposed in the base. This limits the shape of the tip that can be formed in a die as the pressure at the tip of the die becomes very high. The tip of the die also has to have a hole for an ejection pin in it which creates a weak point and limits the sharpness of a bullet that can be made.
If you make a bullet the other way and make the tip of the bullet from the open end of the jacket cup, the jacket material is thinner and you can achieve a more streamline tip. How much lead you put in the jacket and how much of a cavity is left is up to you, however most match bullets are filled up to the tip. This is why most match grade bullets such as Sierra MatchKings are made like this.
The reason for the paper tip in the .303 Mk VII bullet was to improve the stability, not to increase the terminal effects (it says here...). It is also interesting that the NATO 7.62 bullet used by the Germans in the G3 rifle invariably split across the cannelure on impact!
The SS109 5.56 bullet used in "Green Tip" has a steel pin behind the jacket, ostensibly to improve the ballistics but also to allow the bullet to penetrate the NATO steel helmet target on the acceptance trials. The fact that the pin causes the jacket to strip off on impact is presumably a minor issue!
@@felixthecat265old m193 fragmented out of 20inch barrels anyway the newer m855a1 does so even at lower speeds. Except the mild steel tip.
Researched, produced and presented jaw-droppingly well, thank you.
gotta love how all the treaties and conventions, were and are nothing more than flashy ways to add less of rules and more of guidelines, which defense budgets find new inventive ways to loop hole around.
I only use the term "dum dum" for rounds that have aftermarket modified. Eg, cutting an x into the tip of a standard fmj or target round. Don't do this btw it's very illegal and in places where shooting in self defense is allowed hollow points are available. Also its dangerous to modify ammo. Hence "dum dum" being very appropriate.
When I was 13 (1992) we used to modify .22 magnum and .22LR into dum dums to eradicate grey kangaroos.
I had no idea why we were told to do it. I can only remember using a “Japanese pull saw” to do it because the blade was very thin and very very sharp. I have not so fond memories of the saw slipping many times as I started the process on a fresh round.
Those were the good old days of Australian crop protection during the droughts. 😂🇦🇺
@18:00 the poor man who stood there for 15 minutes for this single picture to be taken, only to have his face blocked by the top hat in front of him.
top hat was very ungentlemanly.
First, the U.S. military can use hollow points, they choose not to. The portion of The Hague and Geneva Conventions that restricts soft or hollow point ammunition was not signed nor ratified by the U.S. For that reason, the U.S. military is not bound by that provision.
Fun fact on civilian and law enforcement use of Hollow points, FMJ ammo is far more likely to over penetrate. It will often pass through the target and still carry on with lethal energy that can endanger anything beyond the intended target. Hollow points and expanding ammunition will either stop within the target, or transfer most of it's energy into the target resulting in far less chance of dangerous overpenetration.
Self defense policy on a whole in all of the United States specifically ascribes the positives of using hollow-point ammunition, as both self-defense, and defense of others. If you use anything such as a jacketed or ball ammunition that passes through a target, you are potentially liable for any damages that take place to multiple individuals. It is ironic that the most effective means of stopping an individual from continuing to do you harm, is somehow blocked from being used on the battlefield.
You telling me we were headed to creating Bolt rounds in the 1800s and didn’t because it was too evil?
Wow.
Nah they absolutely exist. Something like a 20mm SAP is basically a bolt shell, it penetrates armor then explodes.
So close…
Look up the rocket pistol it was made lol
The goal in war is to make your enemy stop fighting you. The soldiers' fear of catastrophic and horrible personal injury works very well in that regard.
... unless they are especially well motivated by e.g. religious frenzy, certain drugs, certain cultural ideals, etc. The references to the ineffectiveness of certain weaponry and ammo but only against "barbarians" and "savages" were certainly racist, but the problems were real.
The statement is more generally true re: the Europeans. Elsewhere in the world that truth was much more highly variable. This has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with cultural norms, ideals, and values which are tremendously varied across the range of humanity.
Even in Europe there had been e.g. the berserkers. But long before the 19th Century, groups like them had really ceased to exist, at least in any numbers; Christianity had dominated all of Europe for long enough for considerable homogeneity to have set in to a pan-European culture in which frenzy-inducing drugs and practices were discouraged, to put it mildly, as both the Church and the monarchs had a vested interest in society being controlled and controllable.
When frangible bullets were banned for the military research went into making FMJ projectiles more effective. M193 5.56x45 and 7n6 5.45x39 are arguably MORE damaging than hunting bullets of the same caliber.
Don't forget Depleted Uranium rounds still used in war.
God forbid a bullet kills someone by expanding too much but radioactive bullets are juuuuuuuuuust fine.
Very few people would argue that. A good expanding bullet can provide reliable energy transfer at the distance you desire, but a FMJ is more ...random.
I'm not saying they aren't effective, just not as effective. The main reason militaries use FMJs is to defeat armor or cover, not for their effects on "soft" targets.
@@acem82 The main reason militaries use FMJ's is because open lead bullets are banned under international treaties. Did you not watch the video? I already knew this by the way, I learned it when I was a kid in the 80's.
@@robo5013 1. Expanding bullets are used in the US military, see MK 262.
2. Militaries would ignore that if they thought the absolute performance was significantly better. In reality, for a military, FMJ is better all around, because it performs good enough in a soft target, but also defeats lots of cover better than expanding bullets do.
@@acem82 Once again, the only reason FMJ was created was to comply with international treaties. Any performance properties were ones that were engineered after their adoption.
Expanding bullets are also used because they stop in the target and don’t hit unintended ones behind them. That’s why they’re recommended for home defence use
Law enforcement also has a secondary reason to use expanding ammunition, it is supposed to stay in the first target you hit and not threaten potential innocent bystanders behind the target.
Yeah but what about the 20-40 rounds that they missed the subject with. Those bystanders are just screwed.
There's also a dum dum joke in lethal weapon 3
The minni ball was actually heavier than a round musket ball. They traveled all the way through a person not because they were lighter and therefore faster but because they were heavier and the increased mass has more potential energy when in motion that becomes kinetic energy when acted against there by increasing its terminal ballistics.
Sorry? "potential energy when in motion" ? That is already Kinetic Energy. Potential Energy is what it says. Potential (or stored).
Did you study physics?
Kinetic Energy is 0.5mV^2 => means velocity squared is much more important than mass in determining the energy.
i.e. double the mass, you double the kinetic energy.
But, double the velocity and you quadruple the kinetic energy.
So better to have a half the mass and double the velocity (which is has same momentum) but then you get twice the K.E. in flight.
@@AnotherPointOfView944 V²xM/450240=E
@jarrodcomins2399
1) The constants are there to make the formulas work with particular units. Your formula is not more correct than his. It's already undergone a unit conversion to make the answer come out in foot-pounds (I think) rather than joules (IIRC).
2) Minie. There should be an accent mark over the e, but not on this phone keyboard. That was someone's name, not short for miniature.
3) "...thereby increasing its ballistics." Huh? How does one increase its ballistics? Or decrease them, for that matter? What does this mean? What does the word ballistics mean to you?
Maybe you should do some reading. Because it's evident that this is just one of several words, phrases, and concepts that you've been using while having no idea what they mean, and consequently, your conclusions are also wrong. You know, GIGO - Garbage In, Garbage Out.
Sorry, but I have no patience for people who are ignorant but think they're smart and knowledgeable. I'm ignorant of a whole variety of things, but I make it a point of honesty and integrity to be aware of my limitations, to admit to them, and to act accordingly.
Yep density/mass. The higher grains of the lead/etc. that’s why you can have an air rifle firing a copper thin pellet that is .22 cal at 800 fps but fire a .22 cal dense lead bullet at the same velocity & it will have way more energy.
@@jarrodcomins2399 Well done young jedi, you have mastered bullshit.
The arrogant notion that “we are too civilized to use exploding or hollow-tip rounds” is hysterical and mirrors perfectly to today.
I would like to point out that often for law enforcement and personal protection here in The United States of America the use of hollow point ammunition is not simply because it tends to deliver more damage but also because it reduces penetration. As the individual firing a weapon is responsible for everything that exits the weapon, it makes more sense to go with the ammunition type that is not only widely available and effective, but also delivers lethality more on the target and reduce the possibility of injury to bystanders.
I am absolutely floored that "NUH UHHH I GOT YOU YOU HAVE TO STAY DOWN" was a real approach to war.
People had a respect for life. The liars Jesus warned us about are the ones that have caused this ruin.
3:18 Miniè balls are neither lighter nor faster than their roundball counterparts. Their increased weight (typically 2-3× the weight of a roundball), conical design, and accompanying increased ballistic coefficient coupled with stability aided by rifling is what made them so lethal on the battlefield.
I suspect the reference he read to make this video was referring to the 75 cal Brown Bess round balls (approx 600gr) as compared to 58 cal Miniè balls (400-500gr).
@@jacobackley502quite possibly.
So on Red Dead Online, using split-point ammo makes me a war criminal? Because I'm not stopping.
Pretty sure that's long before these conventions were signed so you're good
My Great Grandfather was shot in the head by one of these in WW2. The bullet entered through his eye and expanded in his skull before coming out of his neck. He managed to pick himself up and walk to the field hospital on his own feet. He got evacuated via medical airplane and lived.
He was a Romanian soldier and was shot by a Red Army sniper, I believe during the Battle of Odessa.
If I remember correctly, the Red Army had dum-dum bullets of 7.62×54 caliber for their quad anti aircraft Maxim machineguns, which they used alongside conventional, explosive and incendiary bullets to deal more damage to aircraft. Soviet snipers began using them in their Mosin Nagant sniper rifles of the same caliber because of their lethality. I heard though I couldn't tell you for certain that they also made their own DIY variants by drilling into the bullet and carving notches down the lenght of it, so it might have been that.
thats incredible... what was his life like after?
Seriously, how did everyone somehow agreed to be against this ammunition... and yet a nuke went through??
When rifling first came in the patch, which wrapped around the ball, sealed the load and rode the lands transferring the spin. The first revolvers used slightly larger balls which left a thin ring of lead behind when pressed into the chamber.
Smokeless powder burns where black powder explodes. Thus the increase in temperature and chamber pressure.
My " Black Talon" ammo was banned in 1980s.
and they kept on making essentially the same round with another name and color.
It was never banned but it was taken off the market by the company. They were redesigned slightly and left copper colored but essentially the same round is still sold. I know from personal experience that pathologists did not like the black talon because it left very sharp edges to the petals that would cut them when found during autopsies. True story!
It is ironic that because of the Geneva Conventions soldiers guarding military sites can't use pepper spray on e.g. a drunken oaf trying to enter protected area but have to use lethal force. This is why sometimes military use civilian private security instead of military guards
Batons work too
@@monkegaming6416Nothing a rifle butt or a good punch can't fix.
what?? who gave you that idea "soldiers guarding military sites can't use pepper spray on e.g. a drunken oaf trying to enter protected area but have to use lethal force. This is why sometimes military use civilian private security instead of military guards"
@willam1992 Because use of pepper spray and CS is banned under the Geneva conventions.
Only banned for use in war
Aaw, Simon's daughter left her sippy-cup in daddy's office...
Nah, that's just how Simon drinks his whiskey.
His daughter is pretty old now. Maybe his son?
@@grindcoreninja6527 a man of culture he is indeed, cheers
That’s a cup from @TheRussianBadger either he one of his children must be a fan.
One advantage of hollow point ammunition is shallower penetration. It's safer to use when you want to shoot something in a confined or busy environment and don't want rounds flying through a target and potentially hitting something else down range. That was a very interesting history lesson. Thank you.