Ranged legerdemain is pretty darn awesome in act 4, since it not only lets you disarm traps, but also pick locks at range. And once the lock is picked, you loot the chest at range also, which can let you circumvent the rage-inducing need for teleportation in the city maps of the Abyss. Not every time, but often enough that I was really glad I gave Woljif that ability.
@@SlanderedGaming I'm pretty sure it's not Rule As Intended in the tabletop, but it definitely it the way it works in this game. Another amusing fact about that power is that your Arcane Trickster doesn't need direct line of sight or an open path to the trigger/chest so long as you can detect it as interactive with the Tab key. Even across a chasm or out of direct sight, you'll hear the sound cue and see the greenish glow pop up, and NO MOB EVER REACTS TO IT. Saved me a LOT of castings of Invisibility and Dimension Door.
I could be misremembering but doesn't ranged legardimaine also let the same character attempt to lockpick and disarm traps multiple times without the need to level?
@@AnluanRedwolf I don't know if it was patched out but yeah, basically the game spawns a 'ranged legerdemain' hand which attempts the pick. If it fails and you attempt again, it spawns a new one. However this won't help you with locks that 'jam' after one failed attempt as they seem to carry the failure on the object and not on the character attempting.
I believe it was confirmed a while ago that Owlcat was implementing two things in the next "big" patch: 1. A Mythic ability for armor users to keep AC competitive with Mage Armor 2. A Mythic ability to make your poisons bypass resistance/immunities, thus making Poison spells/abilities (And Assassin) significantly more impactful throughout the game.
They are likely to implement the same mythic feature the tabletop tweaks mod added from mythic guardian path Armored Might (Ex) You treat the armor bonus from your armor as 50% higher than normal, to maximum increase of half your tier (minimum 1). For example, if you are 4th tier and wearing +2 breastplate, you treat the armor’s +6 armor bonus as +8 (50% of +6 is +3, limited to +2 by half your tier).
Even with a mythic ability that bypasses immunities assassins will still be awful. DC is based on itelligence and targets fortitude wich is a bummer. Maybe if increases DC for half mythic level and even still.
Any word on whether they are moving mythic rank 10? To leave it to where it is in threshold is very annoying, particularly given some paths like Devil get very powerful and interesting abilities at this rank 10, and other paths gain precious little. Xanthir Vaag would be an obvious place to add a mythic rank in a stretch of the game where mythic rank progress is currently very slow.
The trick with Arcane Trickster is it's capstone. The ability to sneak attack with any spell is actually amazing. Something making all it's saves? Impromptu Sneak Attack + Magic missile. At level 10 Arcane Trickster it's an extra 7d6 (5 from the class +2 from prerequisites), with Sense Vitals on it's up to 12d6... on a spell that can't miss, has no saving throw, and is a level one spell. Notice a room full of baddies that haven't acted yet? Sneak attack horrid wilting. An extra 12d6 certainly doesn't hurt your odds, and it applies to every target of the spell. Good times. Even better, the damage is all of the type of the spell. If you use a spell that matches your Ascended Element, no resistance and no immunity. Now, it doesn't work with the dragon bloodline ability that gives extra damage, which is just a shame. But it DOES work with the Gold Dragon Mythic path.
As a big advocate of Treasures of the Midnight Isles for letting you play classes and prestige classes outside of what was good in the main game, I honestly believe that if people want to give Assassin a shot it should be there. On the first and second island sequences you'll almost never run into any demons so you might actually run into some enemies you can hit with poisons or the death attack if you really, really wanted to.
I am loving this series, actually getting this information in easy to understand packages like this and with the roleplay flavour suggestions too makes me want to branch out beyond my typical druid builds
My first character in KM was a Thug/Aldori Swordlord, so I have a soft-spot in my heart for that prestige class, even if it's kind of a mess. The "shaken to frighten" ability of the Thug (or in WoTR, that one Hell Knight dedication) really makes the Swordlord feel unstoppable, and it's nice to have an option for that that doesn't rely on Strength like most fear builds. The option to have dueling sword proficiency from your background makes it much more accessible than it was, too.
I’m going to be a bit sad when this series finishes. I look forward to your takes on the classes and systems. I’m sure you will give more content to look forward to so can’t be too sad. Keep up the fantastic 😊 work.
@@SlanderedGaming rogue trader can’t come soon enough! I’m avoiding the content now because I don’t want spoilers yet but I’ll be here for your deep dives when it drops
The point of Impromptu Sneak Attack isn't so much that it makes it easier to hit, though it may, but that it guarantees you get to add your sneak attack damage (assuming the target isn't immune). It is a little less useful than it could be just because of how generous WoTR/KM are about flanking and granting sneak to ranged attacks but it's still very nice if say the initiative order is to not have to delay and just get to start blasting. Surprise spell is also quite strong for clearing trash or removing dangerous casters like the dispellers in the Baphomet fight or the Blade Barrier spammers at the end of the Fane. A Sneak-Maximized-Cone of Cold or whatever will absolute wipe them off the map. Since you can go Rogue 1 Wizard 4 AT 10 pretty easily I think AT is a strong class, though not as well supported as it was in Kingmaker.
I definitely agree Surprise Spell is strong I just don't think it's worth AoE casters taking 9 dead levels for the class to finally come alive at level 10.
In what world is 5 sneak attack dice, full casting progression, and more skills than any base full caster 9 dead levels? Scorching ray is good on pretty much anyone looking to do damage.
I’d say the dead comment would make sense if this was used on classes that had a strong level 11-20. But wizard and arcanist are not that. Same with sorcerer. All those classes give you later on is a feat or two. Capstones for those classes isn’t very good either otherwise you’d not see so many people go into Loremaster.
Prestige class struggles fundamentally because you have to enter it from another class, thus there always exists an opportunity cost of giving up the base class' features, while also having the issue of always having a prerequisite before you can enter the class. I really wish some prestige class' level 10 power is a bit stronger, instead of certain prestige classes having 0 level 10 power.
You totally misunderstood ehat impromptu sneak attack actually does. It makes it so that you were able to make sneak attacks when the target is not normally susceptible. Snake attacks are only available under certain conditions, even though those conditions are fairly common in WOTR, and impromptu sneak attack, allows you to make the sneak attack even when those conditions are not available. The removal of dexterity bonus to AC is a nice addition, so that you were more likely to make your sneak attack, but that is not its primary purpose.
I understand what it is for but as you already stated the conditions for sneak attack are very commonly available. When they are not you also have Greater, Invisibility which is significantly cheaper then multiclassing into Arcane Trickster. Therefore in my mind the dexterity bonus removal is the real draw of this ability which is why I focused on it more.
If you want to play Arcane Trickster as full spellcaster without taking levels in sneak attack classes, you can go on Trickster mythic path, it has sneak attack as a part of his mythic progression and it counts for Arcane Trickster prestege class prerequisites.
Another solution is to reroll after getting the book in the labyrinth, and take the +1 sneak attack die feat. But that's a long way to go honestly, and i'm not a fan of rerolls.
The problem with prestige classes is that the base classes are improvements upon the DnD 3.5 base classes but the prestige classes are mostly the same as they were So the prestige classes end up underwhelming
I really like the arcane trickster just the ability to disarm traps or lockpick and loot chests from range is life saving Maybe it could have gained more sneak attack dice...or be a normal class like a rogue or a wizard archetype
to fix AT they need to either allow crits to work with sneak attack damage (which would make rogues actually very lethal in general), or somehow allow bolster to impact sneak attack damage. As Slandered said, bolster is only very slightly less damage than sneak attacking on spells, and its MUCH easier to get requiring only a single feat. AT requires a massive investment and just isnt worth it in its current form. another potential way to fix AT would be to make them give full AB per level in it. Then it would be pretty damn good and actually worth it. If you really really really want to be a special flower and unique with a prestige class as a caster, go loremaster or eldritch knight as they accomplish insane things that AT just cant compare with.
The best part of Deft Strike is it allows you to use your dex as str when 2-handed. That means you get 1.5 bonus damage from dexterity when you 2-handed a dueling sword which you can not get from slashing grace. And with Power Attack from 2 level ranger dip (bypass the str requirement), you can still get decent damage and ac from dex without 2 weapons fighting and weapon finesse mythic.
One small note for Arcane Trickster, is that with 1 level you gain every skill as a class skill. That is a nice bonus. Nothing stellar, but at least worth mentioning.
For the Aldori Swordlord, by mixing in a teensy bit of ranger you can get power attack without the str requirement and 2 hand the dueling sword using your dex for attack and damage rolls, including with power attack. Don't discount the shenanigans this can let you do. Especially if you go trickster and take the crit feats. (Also you could power game a bit and take a level of scaled fist for cha to ac and crane style before trickster changes your alignment, but that's a corner case). Also, stop taking the class at 5 and take more fighter or ranger, or anything else.
Except for eldrich knight and lore master, winter witch is decent as well. You don’t need to be pure as long as your caster level continue to progress and you also get new features by dipping into some prestige classes
Couldn't agree more, but one thing, the Swordlord CAN still pick up feats as you level the prestige class, so you would be able to pick up those feats needed for that perk as you go :)
You can still pick up feats but Greater Weapon Specialization requires 12 levels in Fighter specifically so you wouldn't be able to get it if you maxed Aldori Swordlord.
My take: So many prestige classes feel weak in Pathfinder because they ripped them pretty much directly from 3.5 with very little changes...after they vastly improved all the 3.5 base classes with more features! It feels very silly because they are clearly two completely different power levels. These prestige classes weren't even that exciting back in 3.5, but here in pathfinder where they compete with the revised base classes only a tiny few can even reasonably compete. And the ones that do compete are usually the boring ones like Mystic Theurge, Loremaster, Eldritch Knight, or are only ever used for dips like Dragon Disciple.
I find myself wondering (and planning to find out) if Surprise Spells on Arcane Trickster would potentially repeatedly apply sneak attack damage with the damage causing entries into the Pit spell line. Like.. are they considered prone / flat footed in there?
I don't know I'll give Imitator it over Assassin. I mean, yeah Imitator sucks but at its best (like if you're in rouge stance) It's slightly worse than a normal slayer. But assassin has class features that don't even work on most of the enemies in the game. I mean, you can still be in barbarian stance and get +20 HP which is basically saying -20 damage on the next time you get hit, which sucks but poisoning a Vrock just isn't possible.
Impromptu sneak attack stacks with surprise spell… so you can launch a fireball and everyone will be flat footed and receive sneak attack dmg… also if your Arcane class is Elemental Specialist you can switch the element and you also have elemental barrage as a Mythic ability… Arcane Trickster is an A to A+ of built right
You have to take 10 levels of Arcane Trickster to make that work which basically means 9 levels of it is dead weight until the very end. That takes it out of A ranking.
You gain 6(1 with feat)sneak attack dice… I hardly think that they are dead levels… it also maintains your spell progression… if you go azata and take zippy magic you can nuke multiple enemies right away and if you take sorcerous reflex you can do it multiple times to start a battle… my first play through on core I blasted everything… I never really got in trouble in a fight even with most bosses unless I didn’t pre buff… 🤷🏻♂️ difference of opinion I guess… I wouldn’t say it’s the most optimal build but maybe because of Kingmaker I just knew the mechanics but my other builds aside from Demonslayer which I bailed on because it seemed too over powered, my Arcane Trickster has been the most powerful… I’m currently 75% through on a Cavalier of the Paw build using Wide Sweep and it’s crazy just auto charging everything. So different and way less strategy than my other play throughs. Thanks for all the videos either way
So arcane trickster does have a uniquely powerful role to play is the blaster role. Impromptu sneak attack and invisibility both let you hit opponents as flat-footed (also while enemies are flanked). There are ways they can circumvent this, see invisibility, uncanny dodge, etc. So you have 2d6 to get class, 5d6 from the class and 1d6 from mythic in theory giving you 8d6 bonus damage. This can be added anything and everything but when you hit with scorching ray or he'll fire Ray it adds the damage to each ray. So 8d6+15d6 on 5 rays is gonna wipe out most things in quit a bit of overkill. But I don't feel like that's where is shines it's so much overkill it's hard to notice except against the hardest bosses and many of then are so hard to hit you'll miss 1/2 your attacks. I feel that it shines best with lich and magic missle/undodgeable spells. Unfortunately it only applies to the first missle in magic missle. But it's unavoidable. Much like exsaguniate, feast of blood, and true death. Adding raw damage to these already power houses of unavoidable damage.
My issue is for blasters adding the bolster metamagic feat will oftentimes outpace sneak attack damage and for aoe spells the class will not come alive until level 10. So that makes me feel like it shouldn't be at the A rating people keep wanting me to put it at.
im playing arcanetrickster both in wotr and kingmaker,as azata wizard I use chain lightning to instant kill group of enemy before the battle even begins but yeah struggling to get sneak attack after that
I have to disagree with you on Arcane Trickster. It is one of my go-to Prestige Classes - I would rank it as B+ or A-. If you cast long duration Sense Vitals you can add an extra 5d6 to your sneak attack, giving your a fair amount of sneak attack dice. In addition, ranged legerdemain makes if possible to disarm some traps that are just next to impossible to get to the trigger.
I'm playing an assassin currently and it is IMPRESSIVELY useless. Poison has other issues beyond demons being immune - The enemies that are not immune tend to be fodder like cultists which poison is largely worthless on. So it alternates between being mostly useless and totally useless. I'm also finding it is very difficult to actually assassinate anything. Your enemies need to be unaware, and you need to be in melee range. But if you are RIGHT next to a target, they seem to be able to spot you incredibly easily, making this difficult to pull off. Admittedly, this may be because I am playing on an incredibly high difficulty setting; this might be a "me" problem. Most of the time, Death Attack is like a side-grade to Coup De Grace, as a result. And that's... Not a great place to be The end result is that this class is essentially a rogue with no class features beside Sneak Attack I CAN report that on rare occasions, the stars will align to allow you to pull off something cool. For example, on the assault on Drezen, there's a section with archers on a wall leading up to the Ash Giants you have to kill. Most of these are spaced just far enough apart that I could assassinate one, turn invisible, and then assassinate the next in a chain. With some save scumming, I could assassinate the giant, too. So my one character could take out the entire wall, which... Admittedly, is very assassin-y. That was my big moment so far, the only other moment was assassinating the guy in the Grey Garrison who was reading a book and otherwise calls for help after being attacked. I'm... Still fairly early in this playthrough. But hoo boy, having one moment to shine per act is not a high bar. What on earth does Wenduag see in me?
When I play Aldori Swordlord I pick thug as my main class and Aldori Swordlord as my background. That way I can level up thug 12 times and Aldori Swordlord 8 for a strong intimidate. Also there are serval avatars from kingmaker that fit well when playing this class.
It's not just "flavor," it's "*~Prestige~*"! You don't pick them up to become more powerful, you do it to prove you already are powerful, and therefore don't need to do something that makes sense to advance your build, lol
You know just to play devil's avacado here since the only requirement for assassin is stealth ranks I could see doing a two level dip into assassin for uncanny dodge if you REALLY wanted it and didn't get it from you class? Gunna be better options to pick it up in 99% of circumstances though. It really is a pity Owlcat still hasn't added a mythic poisons ability.
The issue with prestige classes have a power level comparable to 3.5e D&D counterparts, whereas base classes in pathfinder are WAY stronger than 3.5e counterparts, and that is before accounting for archetypes, with most classes having archetypes that are quite a bit stronger than the base class. Consequently, prestige classes are generally very underpowered. The notable exception are caster level progression prestige classes, particularly with wizard as the base class, as a wizard's class features are very limited, so trading wizard class features for prestige class features is usually worth it.
I guess a one-level dip in Assassin can be amusing (DC 11+Int bonus on Death Attack [will sometimes work for laughs], Sneak Attack, etc.). But levels 2 and above of Assassin feels like a waste.
Soooo, I don't know if it's different here but, ok the ray spells trigger impromptu sneak attack. Now, if you're not going legend then here's the trick. Zippy spell combined with this or improved invis on those multi-ray beams of deadly goodness. Can't tell you how many times in BTSL I get to that oh so delicious point where I have greater invis, walk into the room and drop the biggest threat with scorching ray and then pop a sneak attack cantrip acid splash on the troll that happens to be acting as a minion. Or those times where my other characters just sit there and chill while I drop a fireball on a pack and drop all the little buggers around the again problematic big bad and then watch as the rest of my team has a completely clear path to walk up to the lone standing thing left, the class was incredible in Kingmaker and while legend isn't required to make it great if it retains all functionality, it opens this path more viably to other combinations. Keep in mind 24 hour greater invis exists here.
Idk, Samori...maximised and empowered hellfire ray with 10 levels of Arcane Trickster on a red or gold dragon bloodline sorcerer is silly strong. It's an extra 10d6 damage for each ray. Works on polar ray too.
Regarding base class for arcane trickster, this really should only be a full caster class. There is no reason to take the spell progression of an eldritch scoundrel, for example, over a wizard. Also, impromptu sneak attack is certainly useful. Even on core, you will encounter enemies with touch ACs high enough that a 1/2 BAB class hitting them is far from assured. Invisible thief is mainly useful defensively. You can easily cast invisibility, but as a free action, this can save you if an enemy decides to attack you directly. Surprise spells is also fine. It doesnt help ray attacks, between sense vitals, base sneak attack ranks and potentially trickster mythic path sneak attack ranks, this can be a large buff to damage, and can trigger sneak attack specific effects. I also disagree that this is a bad class to take 10 levels in. Other than taking 1 level of rogue, which you would have to take to get arcane trickster as any full arcane caster, why would you not take 10 levels of arcane trickster if you were a wizard, for example?
If you are a full arcane caster using aoe damage spells who is going to combine this with Trickster than yes it makes sense. If you are a Wizard depending on your archetype than it makes sense. Otherwise it does not and for me that is too small a range.
I really wish the PrCs got buffs to make them worth it. Owlcat has already altered several classes to make the better for the sake of the game. Deft Strike, for example, could give you an extra benefit where you can piranha strike with the weapon, because most if not all dex builds will get Slashing Grace. This isn’t even op. Dex tank builds aren’t nearly as tanky on Hard and up. Hell most PrCs are downright traps on Unfair. You’re just better off grabbing similar feats to the PrC and keeping your class in tact, double so for casters
Aldori defender is straight up better than the swordlord. You can build an entire playstyle around it where you stack damage reductions and attacks of opportunity. You let enemy hit you, you counterattack.
After watching all of your previous series on the classes, I have felt a few surprises; most of them being better appraisal on bad classes than giving good ones bad ratings. I have to say that your take on Arcane Trickster is the first I have seen where you are just... wrong. First of all it is a full caster level progression. Perfect It is also a full sneak attack progression. Damn. Low Base Attack progression. Well you can't have it all, but I'd rather have class mechanics you can't get outside of taking levels, instead of attack bonus which I can get everywhere. For any class that is a caster that wants to either buff the ever living abyss out of themselves and be a dagger mage, or someone that wants whatever spell they aim at a goblin to not only burn it to cinders, but have it going through all of the tender places while doing so, this is THE class. This is one of THE prestige archetypes. It's obviously not for everyone; it can be niche. Combat initiates. Arcane Trickster goes first. Cone of Cold. Fireball. ANYTHING into a flat-footed group, and you are doing your normal damage and at least +7d6 sneak. Surprise Spell is awesome. It literally gives you the ability to sneak attack with something other than an attack. You can sneak attack with an explosion. And you lose NOTHING but bonus feats taking this class. Also Impromptu Sneak Attack works with blaster spells like Hellfire Ray. It's not about reducing their Dex to make them easier to hit, it's about making it so that they don't HAVE Dex to their AC. If they have a 10 Dex with a +0 modifier, they don't get any bonuses to their AC, but you also still don't get sneak attack. If they have a 10 Dex with a +0 modifier, and they lose their Dex to their AC, it still won't change their AC, but you get ALL of the clickity-clackity damage now.
Everything you said is correct but for casters that use AoE spells, Arcane Trickster won't help them until level 10. That's a long time to level up a class that basically doesn't help at all until the very end. I understand once you reach that point there are fantastic advantages but this fact has to bring the score down. That being said I did increase it's score in the final full list of all the classes.
With regards to the arcane trickster surprise spell ability: you say it's useless because you would only pick the prestige class as a blaster. I don't understand what you mean. If I understand the ability correctly, what it does is make your spells, including AOE spells, deal sneak attack damage if the target is flat footed. How is adding 5d6 damage on your AOE spells useless?
It's not that, that ability is useless. It's that UNTIL you get that ability Arcane Trickster does nothing for you. So it's basically nine levels of dead weight until the class finally comes alive at level 10 if you use AOE spells. I don't think that is worth it.
I don't know why, but for some reason I always forget that Aldori Swordlord and Duelist are two different prestige classes and not the same prestige class 😆
Never played the Aldori Defender or Swordlord classes. But heard they were useful in Kingmaker. Arcane Trickster was also nice in Kingmaker. Less useful in this game. Assassin is useless. Nearly everyone is immune to poison.
Assassin gets an F- I feel personally attacked. Now i wanna do a Core run with assassin out of spite. I LOVE making niche builds either based on myself or characters from oyher media (cant make a decent Wesker if monk is locked as Lawful)
Prestige classes feels like they are made for npc who starts at level 12 with unpractical feats and extra stats...For adaptation sake they should take out the prerequisites but lock you out of multi class so it's more like "you dedicated your entire life to this prestige path"...They can do the same with the race exclusive (with some balancing buffs obviously) since most of them are really bad and not the "you're the paragon of your entire race" they should be
Mmm Arcane Trickster is one of my favorite prestige classes, it really only fits a blaster wizard or sorcerer but damn if it doesn't do it well, helps that I tend to gravitate towards rogue/mage hybrids anyways. Octavia being in Kingmaker is the only reason I wouldn't play as one myself in that game. Assassin is so garbage Owlcat had to make Greybor a regular slayer instead lol, definitely the worst class in this game.
@@SlanderedGaming I don't think so I'm just making fun of the fact Assassin is so bad the guy who's an actual assassin doesn't use the class lol. I can't remember if Greybor is in the tabletop adventure path I know Arue and Sosiel are but I think the others are Owlcat characters barring Seelah of course.
scalefist+ Aldori defender + swordlord+ duelist+ instinctial warrior, you got ac bonus from dex, int, wis, char and it's like 60 to 70 ac when naked without buff lmfao. I have 5 level on scalefist cuz i like the monk's appearance, you only need 1 level and you can spent 4 level on other class, like paladin 2 + hellknight 1+ demonslayer 1 for more saving throws and smites and favorite enemies.
The best thing about swordlord is it gives you a free dex to damage feature without spending a mythic feat, more than 1 level in this class is useless.
@@SlanderedGaming It's not amazing like scimitar but it's ok, I used dueling sword in one of my playthroughs, one of the swords you can buy from wojif in chapter 4 allows you to add mobility rank to attacks of opportunity damage, you get a lot of attacks of oppotunity, with outflank buffed, you dont even need seize the moment in newer version of the game. also in chapter 3 you can already buy a decent dueling sword.
Ranged legerdemain is pretty darn awesome in act 4, since it not only lets you disarm traps, but also pick locks at range. And once the lock is picked, you loot the chest at range also, which can let you circumvent the rage-inducing need for teleportation in the city maps of the Abyss. Not every time, but often enough that I was really glad I gave Woljif that ability.
Oh nice!! I didn't know it let you loot the locked chests at range that is AWESOME.
@@SlanderedGaming I'm pretty sure it's not Rule As Intended in the tabletop, but it definitely it the way it works in this game. Another amusing fact about that power is that your Arcane Trickster doesn't need direct line of sight or an open path to the trigger/chest so long as you can detect it as interactive with the Tab key. Even across a chasm or out of direct sight, you'll hear the sound cue and see the greenish glow pop up, and NO MOB EVER REACTS TO IT. Saved me a LOT of castings of Invisibility and Dimension Door.
Yep - really useful in the Abyss.
I could be misremembering but doesn't ranged legardimaine also let the same character attempt to lockpick and disarm traps multiple times without the need to level?
@@AnluanRedwolf I don't know if it was patched out but yeah, basically the game spawns a 'ranged legerdemain' hand which attempts the pick. If it fails and you attempt again, it spawns a new one. However this won't help you with locks that 'jam' after one failed attempt as they seem to carry the failure on the object and not on the character attempting.
I believe it was confirmed a while ago that Owlcat was implementing two things in the next "big" patch:
1. A Mythic ability for armor users to keep AC competitive with Mage Armor
2. A Mythic ability to make your poisons bypass resistance/immunities, thus making Poison spells/abilities (And Assassin) significantly more impactful throughout the game.
Excellent. Thanks for the info.
They are likely to implement the same mythic feature the tabletop tweaks mod added from mythic guardian path
Armored Might (Ex)
You treat the armor bonus from your armor as 50% higher than normal, to maximum increase of half your tier (minimum 1). For example, if you are 4th tier and wearing +2 breastplate, you treat the armor’s +6 armor bonus as +8 (50% of +6 is +3, limited to +2 by half your tier).
Nice! I don't remember seeing that but definitely looking forward to it!
Even with a mythic ability that bypasses immunities assassins will still be awful. DC is based on itelligence and targets fortitude wich is a bummer. Maybe if increases DC for half mythic level and even still.
Any word on whether they are moving mythic rank 10? To leave it to where it is in threshold is very annoying, particularly given some paths like Devil get very powerful and interesting abilities at this rank 10, and other paths gain precious little. Xanthir Vaag would be an obvious place to add a mythic rank in a stretch of the game where mythic rank progress is currently very slow.
I don't watch all of these, but man. Ranking ALL classes is a huge task!
It is but I have REALLY been enjoying it!
@@SlanderedGaming You've been doing a really good job too.
The trick with Arcane Trickster is it's capstone. The ability to sneak attack with any spell is actually amazing. Something making all it's saves? Impromptu Sneak Attack + Magic missile. At level 10 Arcane Trickster it's an extra 7d6 (5 from the class +2 from prerequisites), with Sense Vitals on it's up to 12d6... on a spell that can't miss, has no saving throw, and is a level one spell. Notice a room full of baddies that haven't acted yet? Sneak attack horrid wilting. An extra 12d6 certainly doesn't hurt your odds, and it applies to every target of the spell. Good times. Even better, the damage is all of the type of the spell. If you use a spell that matches your Ascended Element, no resistance and no immunity. Now, it doesn't work with the dragon bloodline ability that gives extra damage, which is just a shame. But it DOES work with the Gold Dragon Mythic path.
As a big advocate of Treasures of the Midnight Isles for letting you play classes and prestige classes outside of what was good in the main game, I honestly believe that if people want to give Assassin a shot it should be there. On the first and second island sequences you'll almost never run into any demons so you might actually run into some enemies you can hit with poisons or the death attack if you really, really wanted to.
Yup I certainly don't advocate for Owlcat taking anything away.
Best WotR class descriptions on the internet right here - hands down!
Thank you!
I am loving this series, actually getting this information in easy to understand packages like this and with the roleplay flavour suggestions too makes me want to branch out beyond my typical druid builds
Awesome! I am glad you are enjoying it!
My first character in KM was a Thug/Aldori Swordlord, so I have a soft-spot in my heart for that prestige class, even if it's kind of a mess. The "shaken to frighten" ability of the Thug (or in WoTR, that one Hell Knight dedication) really makes the Swordlord feel unstoppable, and it's nice to have an option for that that doesn't rely on Strength like most fear builds. The option to have dueling sword proficiency from your background makes it much more accessible than it was, too.
Yup I love having someone on my team with that capability.
I’m going to be a bit sad when this series finishes. I look forward to your takes on the classes and systems. I’m sure you will give more content to look forward to so can’t be too sad. Keep up the fantastic 😊 work.
Imagine how I feel? I'll have to go back to coming up with a new video to put out everyday. LOL
@@SlanderedGaming rogue trader can’t come soon enough! I’m avoiding the content now because I don’t want spoilers yet but I’ll be here for your deep dives when it drops
The point of Impromptu Sneak Attack isn't so much that it makes it easier to hit, though it may, but that it guarantees you get to add your sneak attack damage (assuming the target isn't immune). It is a little less useful than it could be just because of how generous WoTR/KM are about flanking and granting sneak to ranged attacks but it's still very nice if say the initiative order is to not have to delay and just get to start blasting. Surprise spell is also quite strong for clearing trash or removing dangerous casters like the dispellers in the Baphomet fight or the Blade Barrier spammers at the end of the Fane. A Sneak-Maximized-Cone of Cold or whatever will absolute wipe them off the map. Since you can go Rogue 1 Wizard 4 AT 10 pretty easily I think AT is a strong class, though not as well supported as it was in Kingmaker.
I definitely agree Surprise Spell is strong I just don't think it's worth AoE casters taking 9 dead levels for the class to finally come alive at level 10.
In what world is 5 sneak attack dice, full casting progression, and more skills than any base full caster 9 dead levels? Scorching ray is good on pretty much anyone looking to do damage.
I’d say the dead comment would make sense if this was used on classes that had a strong level 11-20. But wizard and arcanist are not that. Same with sorcerer. All those classes give you later on is a feat or two. Capstones for those classes isn’t very good either otherwise you’d not see so many people go into Loremaster.
Prestige class struggles fundamentally because you have to enter it from another class, thus there always exists an opportunity cost of giving up the base class' features, while also having the issue of always having a prerequisite before you can enter the class. I really wish some prestige class' level 10 power is a bit stronger, instead of certain prestige classes having 0 level 10 power.
Yup most of the time it's not worth it.
You totally misunderstood ehat impromptu sneak attack actually does. It makes it so that you were able to make sneak attacks when the target is not normally susceptible. Snake attacks are only available under certain conditions, even though those conditions are fairly common in WOTR, and impromptu sneak attack, allows you to make the sneak attack even when those conditions are not available. The removal of dexterity bonus to AC is a nice addition, so that you were more likely to make your sneak attack, but that is not its primary purpose.
I understand what it is for but as you already stated the conditions for sneak attack are very commonly available. When they are not you also have Greater, Invisibility which is significantly cheaper then multiclassing into Arcane Trickster. Therefore in my mind the dexterity bonus removal is the real draw of this ability which is why I focused on it more.
If you want to play Arcane Trickster as full spellcaster without taking levels in sneak attack classes, you can go on Trickster mythic path, it has sneak attack as a part of his mythic progression and it counts for Arcane Trickster prestege class prerequisites.
Yup that's a good call out.
Another solution is to reroll after getting the book in the labyrinth, and take the +1 sneak attack die feat. But that's a long way to go honestly, and i'm not a fan of rerolls.
Or Lich with Tainted Sneak Attack and a feat to get the second die.
The problem with prestige classes is that the base classes are improvements upon the DnD 3.5 base classes but the prestige classes are mostly the same as they were
So the prestige classes end up underwhelming
Yup that's definitely part of the issue.
I really like the arcane trickster
just the ability to disarm traps or lockpick and loot chests from range is life saving
Maybe it could have gained more sneak attack dice...or be a normal class like a rogue or a wizard archetype
It would help if Surprise Spell came earlier, making it more viable for AoE casters.
to fix AT they need to either allow crits to work with sneak attack damage (which would make rogues actually very lethal in general), or somehow allow bolster to impact sneak attack damage. As Slandered said, bolster is only very slightly less damage than sneak attacking on spells, and its MUCH easier to get requiring only a single feat. AT requires a massive investment and just isnt worth it in its current form.
another potential way to fix AT would be to make them give full AB per level in it. Then it would be pretty damn good and actually worth it.
If you really really really want to be a special flower and unique with a prestige class as a caster, go loremaster or eldritch knight as they accomplish insane things that AT just cant compare with.
The best part of Deft Strike is it allows you to use your dex as str when 2-handed. That means you get 1.5 bonus damage from dexterity when you 2-handed a dueling sword which you can not get from slashing grace. And with Power Attack from 2 level ranger dip (bypass the str requirement), you can still get decent damage and ac from dex without 2 weapons fighting and weapon finesse mythic.
One small note for Arcane Trickster, is that with 1 level you gain every skill as a class skill. That is a nice bonus. Nothing stellar, but at least worth mentioning.
I didn't even notice that but yeah it's a great call out.
For the Aldori Swordlord, by mixing in a teensy bit of ranger you can get power attack without the str requirement and 2 hand the dueling sword using your dex for attack and damage rolls, including with power attack. Don't discount the shenanigans this can let you do. Especially if you go trickster and take the crit feats. (Also you could power game a bit and take a level of scaled fist for cha to ac and crane style before trickster changes your alignment, but that's a corner case). Also, stop taking the class at 5 and take more fighter or ranger, or anything else.
Oh nice that does sound interesting.
I get the feeling that most of the prestige classes are going to be good for thematic reasons only. Losing base class levels is hard to justify
There's a few standouts don't worry. :)
Eh, some base classes aren’t that great to get to 20. Some of the wizard ones especially give nothing that loremaster doesn’t give
Except for eldrich knight and lore master, winter witch is decent as well. You don’t need to be pure as long as your caster level continue to progress and you also get new features by dipping into some prestige classes
Couldn't agree more, but one thing, the Swordlord CAN still pick up feats as you level the prestige class, so you would be able to pick up those feats needed for that perk as you go :)
You can still pick up feats but Greater Weapon Specialization requires 12 levels in Fighter specifically so you wouldn't be able to get it if you maxed Aldori Swordlord.
@@SlanderedGaming Ah, I see, I kinda always thought the class counted as fighter levels. This is a bummer, thanks for clearing that up :)
Arcane trickster is so good. Surprise spells are op. Everything about this class is good. Unfair playthrough, S tier.
I have learned it has a lot of fans. LOL
@@SlanderedGaming yea, a rogue wizard that does more damage than other wizards. Fit for main damage carry, since touch ac hitting is reliable
My take: So many prestige classes feel weak in Pathfinder because they ripped them pretty much directly from 3.5 with very little changes...after they vastly improved all the 3.5 base classes with more features! It feels very silly because they are clearly two completely different power levels. These prestige classes weren't even that exciting back in 3.5, but here in pathfinder where they compete with the revised base classes only a tiny few can even reasonably compete. And the ones that do compete are usually the boring ones like Mystic Theurge, Loremaster, Eldritch Knight, or are only ever used for dips like Dragon Disciple.
Yup that's 100% correct. Some of them even have mechanics that flat out don't exist in the game so it's useless.
I find myself wondering (and planning to find out) if Surprise Spells on Arcane Trickster would potentially repeatedly apply sneak attack damage with the damage causing entries into the Pit spell line. Like.. are they considered prone / flat footed in there?
Hmmm I am actually not sure.
I don't know I'll give Imitator it over Assassin. I mean, yeah Imitator sucks but at its best (like if you're in rouge stance) It's slightly worse than a normal slayer. But assassin has class features that don't even work on most of the enemies in the game. I mean, you can still be in barbarian stance and get +20 HP which is basically saying -20 damage on the next time you get hit, which sucks but poisoning a Vrock just isn't possible.
You are right I just cannot stand Imitator. LOL
Impromptu sneak attack stacks with surprise spell… so you can launch a fireball and everyone will be flat footed and receive sneak attack dmg… also if your Arcane class is Elemental Specialist you can switch the element and you also have elemental barrage as a Mythic ability… Arcane Trickster is an A to A+ of built right
You have to take 10 levels of Arcane Trickster to make that work which basically means 9 levels of it is dead weight until the very end. That takes it out of A ranking.
You gain 6(1 with feat)sneak attack dice… I hardly think that they are dead levels… it also maintains your spell progression… if you go azata and take zippy magic you can nuke multiple enemies right away and if you take sorcerous reflex you can do it multiple times to start a battle… my first play through on core I blasted everything… I never really got in trouble in a fight even with most bosses unless I didn’t pre buff… 🤷🏻♂️ difference of opinion I guess… I wouldn’t say it’s the most optimal build but maybe because of Kingmaker I just knew the mechanics but my other builds aside from Demonslayer which I bailed on because it seemed too over powered, my Arcane Trickster has been the most powerful… I’m currently 75% through on a Cavalier of the Paw build using Wide Sweep and it’s crazy just auto charging everything. So different and way less strategy than my other play throughs. Thanks for all the videos either way
So arcane trickster does have a uniquely powerful role to play is the blaster role. Impromptu sneak attack and invisibility both let you hit opponents as flat-footed (also while enemies are flanked). There are ways they can circumvent this, see invisibility, uncanny dodge, etc.
So you have 2d6 to get class, 5d6 from the class and 1d6 from mythic in theory giving you 8d6 bonus damage. This can be added anything and everything but when you hit with scorching ray or he'll fire Ray it adds the damage to each ray. So 8d6+15d6 on 5 rays is gonna wipe out most things in quit a bit of overkill.
But I don't feel like that's where is shines it's so much overkill it's hard to notice except against the hardest bosses and many of then are so hard to hit you'll miss 1/2 your attacks. I feel that it shines best with lich and magic missle/undodgeable spells. Unfortunately it only applies to the first missle in magic missle. But it's unavoidable. Much like exsaguniate, feast of blood, and true death. Adding raw damage to these already power houses of unavoidable damage.
My issue is for blasters adding the bolster metamagic feat will oftentimes outpace sneak attack damage and for aoe spells the class will not come alive until level 10. So that makes me feel like it shouldn't be at the A rating people keep wanting me to put it at.
@@SlanderedGaming that's very very true my two favorite PrCs this one and eldritch knight don't have any meaningful power until their capstone.
im playing arcanetrickster both in wotr and kingmaker,as azata wizard I use chain lightning to instant kill group of enemy before the battle even begins
but yeah struggling to get sneak attack after that
Yeah it's a cool option but I don't feel it's quite as good as what people are making it.
I have to disagree with you on Arcane Trickster. It is one of my go-to Prestige Classes - I would rank it as B+ or A-. If you cast long duration Sense Vitals you can add an extra 5d6 to your sneak attack, giving your a fair amount of sneak attack dice. In addition, ranged legerdemain makes if possible to disarm some traps that are just next to impossible to get to the trigger.
I still don't agree but enough people have made this point that I will reconsider the ranking in my final full list. Thanks for the feedback.
@@SlanderedGaming Arguments over what is best, ranking etc. is shows how well OwlCat as brought the authentic tabletop experience to the computer.
Awwh I am so pleased you're doing the Prestige classes
Oh yeah we will review them all!
I'm playing an assassin currently and it is IMPRESSIVELY useless.
Poison has other issues beyond demons being immune - The enemies that are not immune tend to be fodder like cultists which poison is largely worthless on. So it alternates between being mostly useless and totally useless.
I'm also finding it is very difficult to actually assassinate anything. Your enemies need to be unaware, and you need to be in melee range. But if you are RIGHT next to a target, they seem to be able to spot you incredibly easily, making this difficult to pull off. Admittedly, this may be because I am playing on an incredibly high difficulty setting; this might be a "me" problem. Most of the time, Death Attack is like a side-grade to Coup De Grace, as a result. And that's... Not a great place to be
The end result is that this class is essentially a rogue with no class features beside Sneak Attack
I CAN report that on rare occasions, the stars will align to allow you to pull off something cool. For example, on the assault on Drezen, there's a section with archers on a wall leading up to the Ash Giants you have to kill. Most of these are spaced just far enough apart that I could assassinate one, turn invisible, and then assassinate the next in a chain. With some save scumming, I could assassinate the giant, too. So my one character could take out the entire wall, which... Admittedly, is very assassin-y.
That was my big moment so far, the only other moment was assassinating the guy in the Grey Garrison who was reading a book and otherwise calls for help after being attacked.
I'm... Still fairly early in this playthrough. But hoo boy, having one moment to shine per act is not a high bar. What on earth does Wenduag see in me?
😂😂😂😂
Correction, you can get Arcane Trickster at level 4. Wizard 3, Rogue 1 with accomplished Sneak Attacker feat at 3 and you can choose it at level 4.
When I play Aldori Swordlord I pick thug as my main class and Aldori Swordlord as my background.
That way I can level up thug 12 times and Aldori Swordlord 8 for a strong intimidate.
Also there are serval avatars from kingmaker that fit well when playing this class.
Nice that does sound like a good combo.
I was wondering how useful these prestige classes actually are, as I hadn’t found a reason besides flavor. So thanks for the explanation!
It's not just "flavor," it's "*~Prestige~*"! You don't pick them up to become more powerful, you do it to prove you already are powerful, and therefore don't need to do something that makes sense to advance your build, lol
My pleasure!
@@nessesaryschoolthing hahahaha. rofl - I hadn't thought about it that way yet :D
You know just to play devil's avacado here since the only requirement for assassin is stealth ranks I could see doing a two level dip into assassin for uncanny dodge if you REALLY wanted it and didn't get it from you class? Gunna be better options to pick it up in 99% of circumstances though.
It really is a pity Owlcat still hasn't added a mythic poisons ability.
Yeah Mythic Poison is the only thing that would save this class. Barbarian is a better two level dip for Uncanny Dodge.
Thanks for all this goods videos
My pleasure!
The issue with prestige classes have a power level comparable to 3.5e D&D counterparts, whereas base classes in pathfinder are WAY stronger than 3.5e counterparts, and that is before accounting for archetypes, with most classes having archetypes that are quite a bit stronger than the base class.
Consequently, prestige classes are generally very underpowered.
The notable exception are caster level progression prestige classes, particularly with wizard as the base class, as a wizard's class features are very limited, so trading wizard class features for prestige class features is usually worth it.
Yup I agree.
I guess a one-level dip in Assassin can be amusing (DC 11+Int bonus on Death Attack [will sometimes work for laughs], Sneak Attack, etc.). But levels 2 and above of Assassin feels like a waste.
I am not dipping a single toe into Assassin. LOL
@@SlanderedGaming hehe
Soooo, I don't know if it's different here but, ok the ray spells trigger impromptu sneak attack. Now, if you're not going legend then here's the trick. Zippy spell combined with this or improved invis on those multi-ray beams of deadly goodness. Can't tell you how many times in BTSL I get to that oh so delicious point where I have greater invis, walk into the room and drop the biggest threat with scorching ray and then pop a sneak attack cantrip acid splash on the troll that happens to be acting as a minion. Or those times where my other characters just sit there and chill while I drop a fireball on a pack and drop all the little buggers around the again problematic big bad and then watch as the rest of my team has a completely clear path to walk up to the lone standing thing left, the class was incredible in Kingmaker and while legend isn't required to make it great if it retains all functionality, it opens this path more viably to other combinations. Keep in mind 24 hour greater invis exists here.
Lol just went through all of your vids and minute after i see this
Nice!
Idk, Samori...maximised and empowered hellfire ray with 10 levels of Arcane Trickster on a red or gold dragon bloodline sorcerer is silly strong. It's an extra 10d6 damage for each ray. Works on polar ray too.
I upped it's rating in the final review.
Regarding base class for arcane trickster, this really should only be a full caster class. There is no reason to take the spell progression of an eldritch scoundrel, for example, over a wizard.
Also, impromptu sneak attack is certainly useful. Even on core, you will encounter enemies with touch ACs high enough that a 1/2 BAB class hitting them is far from assured.
Invisible thief is mainly useful defensively. You can easily cast invisibility, but as a free action, this can save you if an enemy decides to attack you directly.
Surprise spells is also fine. It doesnt help ray attacks, between sense vitals, base sneak attack ranks and potentially trickster mythic path sneak attack ranks, this can be a large buff to damage, and can trigger sneak attack specific effects.
I also disagree that this is a bad class to take 10 levels in. Other than taking 1 level of rogue, which you would have to take to get arcane trickster as any full arcane caster, why would you not take 10 levels of arcane trickster if you were a wizard, for example?
If you are a full arcane caster using aoe damage spells who is going to combine this with Trickster than yes it makes sense. If you are a Wizard depending on your archetype than it makes sense. Otherwise it does not and for me that is too small a range.
👍💪
I really wish the PrCs got buffs to make them worth it. Owlcat has already altered several classes to make the better for the sake of the game.
Deft Strike, for example, could give you an extra benefit where you can piranha strike with the weapon, because most if not all dex builds will get Slashing Grace.
This isn’t even op. Dex tank builds aren’t nearly as tanky on Hard and up. Hell most PrCs are downright traps on Unfair. You’re just better off grabbing similar feats to the PrC and keeping your class in tact, double so for casters
legend being able to max aldori defender, aldori swordlord and duelist is pretty mad now that i think about it
Yup it's a big draw.
Well, but it's kind of easy to make a great Legend build, isn't it? My playthrough became severely easier after the Legend levels kicked in.
Aldori defender is straight up better than the swordlord. You can build an entire playstyle around it where you stack damage reductions and attacks of opportunity. You let enemy hit you, you counterattack.
After watching all of your previous series on the classes, I have felt a few surprises; most of them being better appraisal on bad classes than giving good ones bad ratings.
I have to say that your take on Arcane Trickster is the first I have seen where you are just... wrong.
First of all it is a full caster level progression. Perfect
It is also a full sneak attack progression. Damn.
Low Base Attack progression. Well you can't have it all, but I'd rather have class mechanics you can't get outside of taking levels, instead of attack bonus which I can get everywhere.
For any class that is a caster that wants to either buff the ever living abyss out of themselves and be a dagger mage, or someone that wants whatever spell they aim at a goblin to not only burn it to cinders, but have it going through all of the tender places while doing so, this is THE class. This is one of THE prestige archetypes. It's obviously not for everyone; it can be niche.
Combat initiates.
Arcane Trickster goes first.
Cone of Cold. Fireball. ANYTHING into a flat-footed group, and you are doing your normal damage and at least +7d6 sneak. Surprise Spell is awesome. It literally gives you the ability to sneak attack with something other than an attack. You can sneak attack with an explosion. And you lose NOTHING but bonus feats taking this class.
Also Impromptu Sneak Attack works with blaster spells like Hellfire Ray. It's not about reducing their Dex to make them easier to hit, it's about making it so that they don't HAVE Dex to their AC.
If they have a 10 Dex with a +0 modifier, they don't get any bonuses to their AC, but you also still don't get sneak attack.
If they have a 10 Dex with a +0 modifier, and they lose their Dex to their AC, it still won't change their AC, but you get ALL of the clickity-clackity damage now.
Everything you said is correct but for casters that use AoE spells, Arcane Trickster won't help them until level 10. That's a long time to level up a class that basically doesn't help at all until the very end. I understand once you reach that point there are fantastic advantages but this fact has to bring the score down. That being said I did increase it's score in the final full list of all the classes.
Aldori swordlord art is amazing
Yup I knew immediately it was the right one. LOL
How about Bolster MM + Arcane Trickster? Would that be good or is it just overkill?
Bolster doesn't work with Sneak Attack so unfortunately that combo isn't helpful.
@@SlanderedGaming Oh yeah now I am reading it properly. Shame.
With regards to the arcane trickster surprise spell ability: you say it's useless because you would only pick the prestige class as a blaster. I don't understand what you mean. If I understand the ability correctly, what it does is make your spells, including AOE spells, deal sneak attack damage if the target is flat footed. How is adding 5d6 damage on your AOE spells useless?
It's not that, that ability is useless. It's that UNTIL you get that ability Arcane Trickster does nothing for you. So it's basically nine levels of dead weight until the class finally comes alive at level 10 if you use AOE spells. I don't think that is worth it.
Oh, I see, thanks for clarifying. That is a fair point, yes
I don't know why, but for some reason I always forget that Aldori Swordlord and Duelist are two different prestige classes and not the same prestige class 😆
😂
Never played the Aldori Defender or Swordlord classes. But heard they were useful in Kingmaker. Arcane Trickster was also nice in Kingmaker. Less useful in this game. Assassin is useless. Nearly everyone is immune to poison.
Agreed.
Arcane Trickster is at least an A. Either for a spellcaster or Eldrich Archer combining this with Trickster Mythic path can be bonkers.
If it requires a specific Mythic Path to be great than it cannot be an A. Especially Trickster which honestly makes just about all the classes better.
If you’re going legend sword saint Aldori sword lord duelist would be better the int to ac stacks but my idea is sword saint duelist eldritch knight
Assassin gets an F-
I feel personally attacked. Now i wanna do a Core run with assassin out of spite.
I LOVE making niche builds either based on myself or characters from oyher media (cant make a decent Wesker if monk is locked as Lawful)
There is now a way mythic ability to bypass poison immunity.
I make my Nenio an arcane trickster with a single dip of vivisectionist because honestly scroll savant kinda sucks.
LOL It's definitely not great, I completely understand.
What difficulty level are you talking about here?
Things are different when playing at the highest difficulty level…
The highest level I play is Core. Never played Unfair and I never will. LOL
@@SlanderedGaming From my experience, on Core you can just random stuff on leveling up and still cruise through the game :)
Imitator Assassin Legend build where?
😂😂
Prestige classes feels like they are made for npc who starts at level 12 with unpractical feats and extra stats...For adaptation sake they should take out the prerequisites but lock you out of multi class so it's more like "you dedicated your entire life to this prestige path"...They can do the same with the race exclusive (with some balancing buffs obviously) since most of them are really bad and not the "you're the paragon of your entire race" they should be
Yeah they definitely don't feel as powerful as base classes.
imagine a PF/DnD game where poison isn't trash... poor assasine
😂😂
Please leave the text on the screen long enough to read, instead of one quarter of a second. Thank you.
The series is already recorded but I will keep that feedback in mind for next time.
Mmm Arcane Trickster is one of my favorite prestige classes, it really only fits a blaster wizard or sorcerer but damn if it doesn't do it well, helps that I tend to gravitate towards rogue/mage hybrids anyways. Octavia being in Kingmaker is the only reason I wouldn't play as one myself in that game.
Assassin is so garbage Owlcat had to make Greybor a regular slayer instead lol, definitely the worst class in this game.
Greybor is an Assassin in tabletop?
@@SlanderedGaming I don't think so I'm just making fun of the fact Assassin is so bad the guy who's an actual assassin doesn't use the class lol.
I can't remember if Greybor is in the tabletop adventure path I know Arue and Sosiel are but I think the others are Owlcat characters barring Seelah of course.
It´s sad that Assassin is so bad since the concept is so cool. :(
AGREED.
I really don't like swordlord. It feels like a much more specific duelist
Yup it's extremely narow.
scalefist+ Aldori defender + swordlord+ duelist+ instinctial warrior, you got ac bonus from dex, int, wis, char and it's like 60 to 70 ac when naked without buff lmfao. I have 5 level on scalefist cuz i like the monk's appearance, you only need 1 level and you can spent 4 level on other class, like paladin 2 + hellknight 1+ demonslayer 1 for more saving throws and smites and favorite enemies.
The best thing about swordlord is it gives you a free dex to damage feature without spending a mythic feat, more than 1 level in this class is useless.
Yeah the problem is unless you are actually using Dueling Swords taking a Weapon Focus feat in them is a complete waste.
@@SlanderedGaming It's not amazing like scimitar but it's ok, I used dueling sword in one of my playthroughs, one of the swords you can buy from wojif in chapter 4 allows you to add mobility rank to attacks of opportunity damage, you get a lot of attacks of oppotunity, with outflank buffed, you dont even need seize the moment in newer version of the game. also in chapter 3 you can already buy a decent dueling sword.