"Who would have thought that something as simple (...) would cause so much unnecessary drama." Well, it is 2020 after all. If people don't do everything with unnecessary drama, are they doing anything at all?
As a child, I shot off the right side of my bow. Granted it was a compound bow with an ambidextrous grip and arrow rest, I was just holding the bow upside down. But it seemed NATURAL to shoot on the right, you can't tell me Medieval grunt archers were trained in modern target shooting rather than put down a field from a hay bale and told to get their grouping smaller.
This is seriously the biggest case of gate keeping and goal post moving I have seen in a while. Every time you disprove their arguments, they change the argument. First it was impossible. Then it was impossible with a certain style of grip. Then it was "dangerous". Then it was just "impractical". Then it was only historically inaccurate. Then it was just "unlikely". Literally they can't just be humble and say they were wrong and shut up....
Unfortunately most people are stubborn are best and children at worst. Even worse is that they don't recognize it most of the time to either fix it or at the least tell people they have that problem
I guess these are people that just can't stand losing face or admit that they are wrong. They then double down and cherry-pick supporting data (from the wrong sources nonetheless 🤣). They'd rather die a fool than to admit they're wrong. Some would love to let it go but painted themselves so far into a corner it'd feel very unsettling to give up their position exactly because it has become so ridiculous. It takes courage to stop the bullshitting, raise your hands and say "what was I thinking?!"
They can't stand facts. Look at the eastern cultures most of them are using the right side of the bow because it works very well. Mongols known for their horse archers and cavalry. They conquered half of the world larger empire than Alexander the Great.
@TRUTH CENSORED no historian who actually studies history in an honest way would agree with you. The only people who would are people who aren't interested in history for its own sake, but are rather interested in it for the sake of furthering a specific agenda.
@@Strawberry-12. how would it change, if the bow was thick enough to have a hole in the center of the bow, so that the arrow can be shot through the middle? (probably a dumb question, but a fun fantasy question, got the idea from the Minecraft bow animation)
@@sweetlifealley I was talking about on which side to shoot a musket, because if you shoot a musket (flintlock, I’m not sure about matchlock) the flash would go off in you face and cover your face in soot. I do think the hole in the middle would be cool
This is over 1 hour video. Yet someone summarized it for me like: Meanwhile in medieval age: Apprentice: "Should I put the arrow on left side or right side?" Teacher: "If you can hit the target put it in you ass for what I care ." Fucking Legend...
Think it might depend somewhat on the situation... like one on one instruction where limited tradition and like "thats how i do it, thats how you will learn" while armed masses for warfare would be basically "whatever as long as it gets arrows downrange"
This isn't even a left or right argument. This is a 'don't say something is impossible or incorrect when it is completely possible and isn't any less effective' argument.
If it works for you and lead to an adequate result, no one has the right to tell you that you're doing it wrong. Sure, you might be able to improve your technique somehow or archive better results using another technique in certain circumstances, but that doesn't make your method wrong.
Coote & Company: "It's impossible to shoot from the right side of the bow and you're stupid for trying." Me: "Um, yeah. Sure." *pegs another deer while firing from the right side as he has done for nearly four decades* "Seems to work just fine for me, but I shoot prey in the wilderness to put food on the table, not targets in a controlled environment to stroke my ego, so what do I know? I'm just a dumb plebe who doesn't understand the nuances of Elite Archery."
Most people shoot left man, I've been bowhunting hundreds of time, never seen a single person shoot right but I'm not sharing you can't or you don't, if you do props to you man. Most archers shoot left though is idk why anyone wouldn't do it the way majority does but whatever floats your boat
@@zatoby6705 A he has lost weight, partly due to not being able to eat properly after the surgery, and B just wait until he gets the nose surgery done. Suddenly he'll start fireing arrows that hit targets behind him, circling the entire world to do so.
This reminds me of a story my biology lecturer told me. So these two scientists discovered that stomach ulcers are caused by bacteria. They informed the medical community, but they got ridiculed and yelled at, being told that, no, ulcers are caused by stress. They presented all the evidence. They showed their results. Medical community didn't care because it was believed for so long that it was indeed stress. One of the scientists eventually was like "Na I'm done" and got himself checked for ulcers. He didn't have any. Then he chugged a culture of the bacteria they were studying. Got checked again. And would you look at that, he had ulcers now. Sweet, he just took some antibiotics and he was cured again. It literally took a scientist to DRINK STRAIGHT UP BACTERIA just to convince people a common belief was incorrect despite their evidence.
Whenever people describe scientists and the community as perfectly logical and that peer review is a good system, I point to situations like this (my favorite is John Snow and the Broad Street Pump) that are fairly modern that show a clear cognitive bias in the wider community. The number of times I've seen people go into circular logic arguing a point and refuse to break out is astounding.
ClayXros it’s the human ego, these people want their names in the discovery. And let alone for it to be wrong, no way someone so “smart” can handle being wrong
According to the doctors my friend has consulted, some are still not convinced! Lol. New ideas are very hard to introduce when they threaten to prove our understanding wrong. It's sadly the same with all of history.
@@nubbmarr That's not how science works. It's founded on scepticism. People will attribute it to any reasonable factor, or will find another reason for a certain thing happening before they believe the claim of another scientist. This attitude is healthy for science, it helps stop the spread of ignorance and misinformation. It isn't perfect in this, but it's much better than just believing every claim you hear.
I shoot it on the right, simply because I taught myself and it was easier for me to load. Never once had a problem with shooting. The first Archers weren’t worried about tradition with left or right, they shot the bow to hunt, to survive, it never mattered to them.
Good, keep it up, don't follow the dumb train of people defending left side and saying shooting right side is wrong. You shoot on which way is more comfortable and easier for you. I plan to buy my own bow and training myself to shoot it aswell.
I just started the video and seeing your comment and thinking about what they probably said is just absurdly boring to think about " bla bla bla this is the only way cause bla bla bla " looks like twitter for archers and that's is hell on earth
The most important thing is to have an open mind and accept that we don't, can't and won't ever know for sure. History is like having a 1000 piece jigsaw with you having between 1 and 200 pieces. With 200 pieces you can get a good idea of the picture, but little more. For me putting the arrow on the right is madness, but of course it would; I have put it on the left for 45 years. Did they do it? Who knows. Artwork supports it, it shows arrows on both sides. Of course it can be unreliable to use this as solid information, but when you see it again and again........This takes me right back to point one. Be open, don't shut others down and accept that whatever your opinion is, it can NEVER be stated as fact, not on a topic like this and Shad has an open mind.
Thanks heaps Tod and totally agree with your comment, very true. We probably will never know for sure, all I can say is that it's possible and effective, which simply means this style might have been done in medieval times, I personally think it was but I won't be stating that as an absolute fact going forward, because as you mentioned, it's simply my opinion of the past, not a definitive fact. Cheers mate and all the best!
I have put it on the right for 35 years. Like our ancestors - provable from about eleventh century (Certainly much earlier, but i say: provable) until the time, when in middle Europe expanded big archery competitions. Not "nobody knows". Provable. Every child (More precisely: every child at the time I was a child. So more than 30 years back. I don't know anything about today's kids.) knows that when shooting from the right is to set up an arrow easier, faster and in the case of riding horse even basically only possible. Respectively - only possible if the shooter wanted to be in battle more than just target. And no one is arguing about it. No one doubts. It's just a fact... Therefore, this video and information discussed in it seems to me totally unreal! I can not wonder more, what's there to overly argue.
@@WortexCZ personally i think that holding the arrow on the right, obliges you to have the bow as vertical as possible, therefore you have to be standing (or be on a horse)! Holding it on the left, permits you to incline the bow therefore to crouch. This is more handy in forests for hunting etc etc... ( i shoot from the left, always have)
@@mortenjacobsen5673 I thought king James (it was A James right? Or was it one of the Henrys? Can never remember the timelines). Said for his troops to kill all the French knights before the battle, rather than capturing them. Maybe I'm wrong, but I seem to remember hearing that before. Additionally, from what i have seen, learning how to shoot to a standard that the majority of your shots hit a human sized target on the right side of the bow is no more difficult than learning how to shoot to that standard on the left side of the bow (which I gather is a relatively easy thing to do, if you have the upper body strength for it). Also, do you mean the arrows bounced off target dummy's (or other targets which imitate a unarmored human torso) or bounced off of some form of armor/solid target, because arrows tend to bounce off the latter when fired from the left, which could put a small hole in your argument.
@@2adamast Assuming you mean what did Socrates do other than: Teach Plato and Aristotle, create Socratic irony and the Socratic method, lay the foundations of modern Western philosophy, and have other students that went on to continue a philosophical chain that would also teach people like Alexander the great. So assuming you aren't including those, and several things I'm probably missing as I type this before eating, he didn't do much.
A lot of this just comes down to the way people see the world today. “You are allowed to have an opinion, as long as it doesn’t go against their beliefs.” I find it frightening how people have completely reverted to pure tribalism, and have completely shut themselves off from entertaining new ideas and concepts. This is a general statement that applies to almost everything now. This line of thinking if you can call it that just stifles innovation and creativity. If you don’t give yourself room to fail, then innovation becomes an impossibility.
Hi Shad. Seems I'm late to this topic but here's what I would have to say on the matter.. I'm a native American of the Huron tribe from eastern Canada. In our folklore & traditions our clans were actually taught and encouraged to shoot both ways.. left for hunting when pin-point accuracy was needed to ensure the kill as to not waste the opportunity of a prey. But in war time, they used right side for faster notch and for horseback archery, cause weaving the arrow through was near impossible due to the motion of the horse. Now I do not personally have physical evidences (text & artworks) as our family has always kept these tradition from oral education, however I'm sure we were not the only ones. Suffice to say that both style are viable and offers pros & cons but as stated each were used to specific endeavors. Now I know it's not from medieval times and definately not of European origins but I just wanted to clarify that right side style is definately NOT impossible or unlikely.. they are just different techniques for different goals. Love your channel, keep up the interesting content ♡
Supposedly the Chieftan Geronimo boasted being able to fire 10 arrows before the first hit the ground. Archer Lars Anderson proved this feat was possible.
I would’ve said, maybe some people know about right side shooting and others didn’t, but this makes much more sense. Right side is fast side, use it in wartimes. In almost all the art of people shooting arrows in medieval time are art pieces of war.
So, people accept the fact that swordmen used to grab the sword by the blade and bonk people with the pommel but can't stand people saying that archers might had loaded the arrow on the right side? Aight, fair enough, I guess
@@andrewh1113 Yeah, I know they used the pommel as a mace and sometimes even the hilt to pierce the armor or even grapple the enemies, but the fact that people saw that and went "Yeah, that seems about right" but can't accept that some people loaded arrows on the "wrong side" of the bow seems dumb as hell
It's because target shooters have their egos built up around the idea that they're the only "real" archers. That they might not be the only "real" archers or even necessarily be all that close to what was likely used in warfare at all, and that some upstart may have shown them up completely in this regard, is intolerable.
For those people who cannot detect irony, the title of this video is a MEME. But with that out of the way, okay, this is going to be epic, also LONG MAN BAD!!!!
As somebody who has held a bow maybe 5 times in my life, this entire argument feels like a person saying people shouldn't write left handed because 90% of the world writes right handed
LOL that's kind of what I think it feels like, too. I'm sure that there are proper ways to handle certain weapons, but people are different and there may be all sorts of deviations in history. Some to accommodate personal preferences, or overcoming a handicap perhaps? Or some people are just used to doing something a particular way that feels right to them. The left/right argument just feels like the whole left handed/right handed arguments.
Technique is important when handleing any kind of instrument, ofc you can accommodate to your own personal preference but at the long run u might start destroying your body, I used to play the drums and I did it the way I considered it was better for me, till my hands and arms started hurting like hell and was forced to use the proper technique (sry for the bad grammar english is not my main language)
True that. I'm sure there are outliers too from "traditional technique" historically and did well with their weapon. Kinda like the million ways people play/have played guitars.
The "can't shoot instinctively" argument really confused me, personally. I can't play piano instinctively, that doesn't mean it's impossible. I never took piano lessons and have never practiced. I see people trying archery the "right" way and having all the same problems with arrows falling off, string hitting their arm, and missing easy targets - because they haven't practiced archery. Trying new things is hard.
Koven Maitreya nope... You've been in " tine" toooo long! Could not watch more than 5 minutes of this prattle n will not sit thru such drivel with anyone! He talks like a used car salesman ! I'm oooouuuttt! CCC YYYAAA!!!!!!!👍😎👍!!!
@@rifftamson4394 Funnily enough, I seem to qualify... although the book is only the e-book. And the sword is a decorative item I forged in the middle school. And the castle is in Minecraft. But I assume those details can be overlooked, since most importantly, the castle has... MA! CHI! CO! LATIOOONS!
In my high school gym class we had an archery module. During that module the instructor stated quite plainly, that the now should be Shot and loaded in a way that is comfortable to the wielder and he described both ways of shooting, inside and outside from both the right and left handed perspective. That was in 9th grade, 16-16 years ago.
@@nightfall89z62 lol, I'm just teasing. I do think it is interesting that some experts understand people should do what works best, and others are very focused on a single "correct" way
I had an archery module in high school too, but the only things we were told was how to string the bow, and not to shoot each other. In his defence he was the Soccer coach, not an archery teacher.
From experience in other groups. Admins are often the ones with the weakest and fragile egos. If they get proven wrong they take it as a personal attack and then simply berate the person because they can't stand the idea that they've been upstarted on the very page they run
it's true, I felt it myself. I thought I was an expert at a certain topic. My friends told me what I was saying wasn't true, I tried to belittle them because I learned it in uni and they didn't. Then I realized that I was wrong and felt absolutelly terrible. Your ego gets so blown by your dissolusional believe in supirior education, it's crazy.
Can confirm as a "head admin". Like herding cats that treat a funny look as though you are trying to kill them. (Also the tendency to flock together when someone is "hurt" even when that person is being stupid and overly sensitive.)
I always shot from the right. Shooting from the left feels clumsy and not instinctive. Only got told I was doing it wrong once. My response: "You can keep telling me I'm wrong but l'll keep hitting the target."
Heck, the whole hot-blooded vs cold-blooded dinosaur debate was controversial among paleontologists back in the day and things got quite heated between paleontologists. Humanity has a knack for finding things to be passionate about and then arguing it to death with others passionate about the subject.
It seems to have vanished altogether as of this point. I saw this video coming up on my recommendations and decided to give it another watch and decided to go and take a look, and they seem to be gone. I'm sure if this Ian Coote was in overall charge of the page and decided to close it down, or if someone else was in charge and decided to take the page down, but I get the feeling nothing of value was lost.
This is just what is going on with all face book and twitter groups. They see ads for things that make them feel like they are brilliant and smart so they only get feed from one side. Then they see how large the base is and think yeah, we are completely true and no one can prove us wrong. Speaking to like minded people, then shows how wrong they are since they only see the beauty on one side of the fence, and never turn their heads to see the equal beauty.
What would be funny as a scenario playing out is those gatekeepers in a war getting killed by an arrowshot in a style they claimed to be impossible. No i'm not wishing death on them just pointing out reality doesn't care for your opinions, if it works then it works regardless of your belief.
Most modern hockey sticks are made of carbon fiber so it isn't going to biodegrade in 1000 years. Also, the blades are curved for left and right handed players. Though it is funny imagining somebody naively trying to shoot right handed with a lefty blade. Their shots would go way off to the side. Trad bows without a shelf are not so obvious. They pretty much look ambidextrous. Sensei usually shoots with a shelf from the few videos I saw of his. So those bows are strictly right or left handed in their design. There are countless varieties of bow designs. Many which necessitate completely different techniques. Hockey sticks? Eh, you got wood, aluminum and carbon and left hand, right hand, flex and curve and thats about it. But your coach is going to teach you to shoot the same as the rest of the team regardless of what you got.
@@UntiltedName took this comments way to seriously. Also, using the historical evidence of the Simpsons, hockey sticks had no curve so could be used on either side :P
This reminds me of a chad who ended an argument between two people, one was a regular at the range and the other one was a self proclaimed gun expert and they were arguing over revolvers. The "gun expert" shut down the regular every single time he mentioned that revolvers with more than 6 round cylinders existed. Chad casually asks the "gun expert" to spot for him since he wasn't "very good" with revolver iron sights and the mad lad pulls out S&W 686 ( which has a 7 round cylinder) and makes the dummy count every single ping on the steel.
@@yogurtofthemultiverse2200 Ruger makes 10 round revolvers, chambered in .22LR, but there's no reason that can't be scaled up to .22 Magnum. Same for 9 rounders, there might be larger than .22LR models out there. Going larger calibers usually drops the count to 8 or less.
@@gronthgronth2628 You avoid all forms of social groups within hobbies due to some people in the world being assholes, doesnt that kind of self isolation just make you lonely?
@@gronthgronth2628 Sad isn't it? It's just that sort of self interested protectionism that led to the loss of the knowledge of the method to produce Damascus steel. (Yes, yes, possible trade route and supply chain issues didn't help either, but it wouldn't have been a problem if any of the old smiths would have just written it down)
In line behind him stands the usual hema trainee laughting - Day one in HEMA training - "Ok, forget everything your lerned in your old HEMA club. We do things different here and dangerous half knowledge will only harm your progress."
@@madhatten00 It's my understanding that the different grips used by different styles of archery effect which side is the "proper" one. Something about how the string, fingers, and shaft interact.
@@DimIsHigh simple answer. They are elitist. Their opinion of techniques is absolute based on their own empirical research. It's their way or the highway and they teach their pupils this too. Just like any other high level sport.
the best part about this is that i cant shoot a bow on the left side because i can only use one eye and it is impossible to aim when the bow is on the right side for me its honestly not bad
There doesn't need to be a debate for abortion, its obvious that it's morally and ethically wrong. No debating that. As for the arrow on left or right I always thought the arrow was shot from the right side, this is the first time I'm hearing that it's not.
@@arhael3594 no, there is no debating abortions whatsoever and i can not stress that enough there isnt a moral or ethical scale to be tipped here, its murder and nothing more. i can see the possibility of the ever so rare case that the mothers body cant have the child or it will kill her but those cases are so rare its basically a non-issue, say somewhere around 1 in every 1 million abortions are actually due to this problem. the fact of the matter is that abortions are wrong. there is no sensible or justifiable means for performing it. theres a reason why most if not all doctors that perform them are ones that LOST their medical license either due to malpractice or literally people who couldnt pass the tests needed to be a doctor in the first place. dont even try to defend murder.
@@moviemaker2011z We are debating right now, so you are proven wrong as we speak by saying there is no debate. Which would make you more sad? Stepping on a snail or stomping a kitten into a pulp? Feeling of empathy and compassion are targeted to beings that have consciousness: ability to experience life and have feelings. Snail is a rudimentary organism solely driven by instincts. Kitten is a much more developed being, it can have advanced feelings and experience life like we do. Fetus before third semester is a conscienceless organism, it cannot feel or experience life, nothing matters to it, it is hardly different from a snail in terms of its ability to experience life. You attempt to equate it to murder is quite frankly absurd and incomparable to killing a fully developed human or animal for that matter. As of ethics, open map and find out where abortion is legal or illegal. Abortion being legal is part of ethics of every modern civil society. Only shithole countries with backward thinking and lack of human rights still have abortion legal. You choose to value human life in any form and shape. Sure, your belief, your prerogative, you have the right for that. But it's all subjective thinking, your opinion does not have authority nor objective merit. People will have different beliefs and that's why people will disagree with your stance.
It really annoys me when someone puts a decent chunk of effort into experimenting, uncovering, or explaining practical knowledge, and the response is the lowest effort brainlessness such as mockery, dismissiveness, and/or strawman arguments. It's happened to me several times and seeing it happen to others pisses me off as well.
Albrecht Durer, known for his accuracy in his drawings, and for his careful observation of the world around him, shows the arrows on the right in numerous drawings and prints. Two off the top of my head - the Four Horsemen and St Michael Fighting the Dragon. While rabbits jousting on snails may not be taken seriously (and I think the artist concerned would have been disappointed if it was - it's a visual joke), Durer's observations should be taken seriously. And if Durer were alive now I think the accuracy of his car drawings would be highly regarded.
Inspired by you I just went through a Dürer reprint catalogue and I found 5 images with archers in it. In one the archer was asleep, so no results here. In the other 4 the arrows were on the right side. The only difference here was in two images the arrow rested on top of the thumb, the same way Shad shoots, and in the other two cases the arrow rested between index and middle finger.
53:12 "When the arrow is on the right side and the arrow falls off, it's an inherent flaw in the method, not a flaw in the execution. When the arrow is on the left side and the arrow falls off, it's a flaw in the execution, not a flaw in the method." That's some pretty dense cognitive dissonance.
Argument for shooting at the right: You have a thumb. Seriously it may have been a huge advantage for beginner archer at the time, not having to fumble in order to keep the arrow on your knuckle... (Also NUSensei says that the arrow can be deflected by the thumb... It's not like most modern elite archery bows had the arrow set in a crease that may or may not do the exact same as your extended thumb rather than having a smooth shaft... And those are SUPPOSED to be the most accurate!)
When the knives come out among archery folks. On an unrelated note have y’all heard of this book called shadow of the conqueror it’s really good I know it has no reason to be put here but you should read it, available on audible and online.
Longbowman 1: Hey dude, lets switch it up a bit. Longbowman 2: Switch it up? LBM1: Yeah, like, lets try sitting the arrow on the right side instead of the left. LBM2: Woah bro, I like to live on the edge but that's just crazy. LBM1: Yeah but like, when the enemy sees us, they'll be so stunned by this technique that they'll be too busy criticizing us to realize we've already planted arrows in their skulls. LBM2: Lmao, you're right bro. Only idiots would think shooting it from the right side would be near impossible.
@@anxiousearth680 ya, but I think the thing they are arguing is when it's done with a European draw technique. Things like Mongolian Horse archery is usually done with a thumb ring so it's a different hold and release technique
@@dahelmang I am also left-eyed and right-handed. Makes shooting really awkward sometimes. I end up just closing my left eye because I don't have the coordination to switch hands. :P
The car is the perfect example though. A Japanese, Australian and British person would draw the steering wheel on the "wrong" side from my perspective.
@@olesams Yeah but that's not saying that people don't use it on that side. and if say a British person was drawing lets say an american road (with cars) this would be a thing to try to get right. its like in a tv show i saw the Police officer holding his hand behind the slide of the pistol, obviously if he fired that the slide would hit his hand and probably jam. it makes you realise that the Director and actors have no clue as to what their doing with guns. if you paint a picture of an american city and everyone goes WHY ARE THE AMERICANS DRIVING ON THE LEFT you realise the Painter has no clue as to what hes doing, so this is one of the details you try to get tight. and nearly everyone who was asked to describe a car could "HELP I'VE BEEN AROUND CARS FOR YEARS AND I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MANY WHEELS THEY HAVE!"
Hey Shad! A quick note: I looked into this book, "The art of archery" and discovered a couple things. Fisrt of all, the date (1515) is not very acurate. It was printed in France by Michel Lenoir, but we don't know exactly when. What we do know though, is that Michel Lenoir was a printer from 1492 to 1520, so could well be in the end of the middle ages. Second thing, concerning the little note "8. i.e. nock it", well that comes from the translator, H. Walrond, who did it in 1901. In the original version, it is only written "Et en la tenant par le mylieu la doit on bouter dedens son arc" (it is old french, which translate in "holding it by the middle, must put it inside his bow". Finally, and most interestingly, the conclusion of the book is : "I did not intend to say all that there is to say concerning this pastime, but only what I have seen and known from good archers, and also the result of my own experience. I beg all who read or hear read this treatise that they will kindly correct the mistakes, if there are any, and of their courtesy supplement my ignorance." That does not confirm nor deny any theory, but that was, I believe, worth mentionning.
Loky Tales 👏 interesting how this actually hints at the possibility of there being a variety of methods other than was written by the author. Thank you for the insight. Maybe this debate was just as heated back then as it is now 😆
I would like to add that the discrete division of historical periods is a fruit of future historians impossing ideas on the past. Time periods are a useful model through which we look at history and discuss it but the dates on which one time ends and the next one starts are ultimately arbitrary. Especially since what defines time periods is often different in different locations at different times. So, when dealing with dates as close to the transition you can't categorically say what was medieval and what wasn't, the line is a blurry one. Obviously, you could not say the 1600s is part of the medieval period based on the consensus understanding of what medieval is, but the early 1500s its really debatable.
The term "pastime" is probably the most telling of all. If he is approaching archery as a pastime, then I doubt he is talking about battlefield techniques by archers in combat.
@@stanbartsch1984 I'm quite certain that in battle you're far less concerned with seeing how everyone is drawing their bows, and more with shooting at the enemy. So the only times to really study and look at how people are conducting archery is either when learning archery, or watching others in a more relaxed setting. So referring to it as a pastime in that doesn't mean that the author only viewed it as a pastime, and was probably aware of it's war time applications. And who's to say the archers he saw weren't ever soldiers prepared for war. Medieval society is incredibly varied, and what one may call a pastime is rarely if ever just a pastime to them. For instance I can say that drawing is a pastime, but I also draw things for my profession. Likewise I'd called archery, kendo, or any martial art as a pastime, but not because it's not something that people take seriously, but more because I personally do not have to fight to live. Which is why the argument that most people wouldn't pass for good fighters in the medieval period has some truth to it. Doesn't mean that all people fit that, and in fact many would far just as well if not a bit better (due to how healthy people are is usually a really big factor). So kinda just phrase your comment a bit differently if you're being misunderstood. Otherwise it's gonna be taken in quite a way.
I also want to add that there are many other variations of shooting. I've been banned from public ranges for my draw style as its not "safe", primarily because I draw with my draw hand wrist out, while 90% of archers draw with their draw hand wrist in. However, due to a childhood injury, it puts massive stress in my wrist to hold that much weight back, even just long enough to get to full draw, that the pain become unbearable. Until I started spinning my wrist outward. This has allowed me to work up in draw weight (starting at 25lbs, now I'm drawing 65, about to move up to an 75, as I can shoot that 65 all day without tiring), and strengthen my wrist again. But as has been mentioned, people get stuck in a rut that "this is the correct way and any variance to this is a safety hazard and must be stopped".
The Elven Archer in Rings of Power uses that draw... there was a lot of nonsensical hate about that show, but that one was deemed to be one of the most "genuine" because no one in the history of archery would ever do that. First time I saw him shooting like that I was straight out in the back garden with the bow, and "Holy Shit! It really does work!" I got an extra inch or so on my draw from it. Still feels a bit weird, but it works. Next time I go to a range I'm going to try it with a right hand rest, and see how many people lose their fucking minds.
Hi Shad, I'm from Russia, and I'm a member of historical reconstructors club (actually, only few club members are true reconstructors, most of us just having fun with swords, bows, spears etc.) Watching Your videos and how slow was our club's archers were, I decided to tell them about right side shooting. And it really helped them to grow up their shooting speed, thanks You a lot! (Sorry for my language)
Lol "If the arrow falls off during a left side draw, youre doing it wrong, but if it falls off during a right side draw, then the draw has fundamental mechanical and technical issues."
Meanwhile in medieval age: Apprentice: "Should I put the arrow on left side or right side?" Teacher: "If you can hit the target put it in you ass for what I care ."
Ok, when shad said “Please don’t attack NU personally, if you have a problem with his arguments, attack his arguments” I just had to pause the video and go THANK YOU cause seriously, that’s a lesson all of us need to learn. Thank you shad for being so gracious and respectful (also I love your videos)
The thing is, if someone keeps up the same shitty behavior(misrepresenting) and doesn't change that behavior from just being pointed out to him, verbally repremanding that person should be your next step if you want them to change. Unless of course you want him to keep popping up as an issue every time you veer into their area of interest?
I just got introduced to this concept due to a friend. I fire from either side of my bow. However, I should note going into this that I'm blind in my left eye. This will become relevant, possibly, in a moment. I was discussing this with a friend. I have a home made pvc bow and a hand carved long bow. The second wasn't made by me. A friend of mine that I used to go out hunting with enjoys bow fishing so we often get on the topic of bows and various connotations with them. They have seen me notch and would often point out that I notch my arrows funny. This isn't an entirely self taught art for me and I'd explain that it was the way my grandfather showed me. He would notch "Right" if he knew his first shot was off and felt the need for a second, quicker shot. I tend to notch based on the position of my bow at rest. If I'm still holding it upright I notch Right. If it's held relaxed and down across the body I notch left. I'm sure there are proper terms for this. I never bothered. However when showing him my home made bow he commented on it. We talked and he mentioned that there was strife in the community of whether to notch left or right. I simply asked for clarification on this and got the reply that "People assert that notching to the right is wrong." I pointed out that when resting the arrow to the right I use my thumb to keep it in place by lightly elevating it. That I didn't know what to tell him. It worked because it worked. We got on the topic of depth perception possibly being a factor due to being blind in my left eye. I told him I couldn't honestly validate or dissuade him on that. After all, I've always been blind in one eye. So can't really make an argument based on two eyes. I tend to see the world how I see it. I manage just fine from my perspective. But he wanted to test. So we spent a bit over Skype shooting. Lots of immobile targets which, for me, are a lot harder to hit than a moving one. But it was this philosophy and line of questioning that brought this to my attention. I'm genuinely surprised this is an issue. " You shoot how you shoot" is what I was taught. Then again grandfather can fire a long bow from his back. He braces it with his feet, grips with both hands on the string, then notches an arrow and let's fly. Usually using his legs to elevate the bow. To me it's an interesting trick but it works. This argument made me ponder the philosophy of "If it works, is it stupid?" I can't fire with my freaking feet. First time I'd ever seen something like that. And sadly the old man is now dearly departed so I can't ponder further with him on it but I do know he considered it showing off. Nothing more. His view was "Make sure you can use a skill you develop." So to me it's rather silly to say you can't do something that people do all the time. Sure, being blind in one eye might have some influence on this. But if not, then why is this such an issue?
Using NU’s “Logic”: Shad had an injury from Archery... Jack got an injury from Archery... I, myself, NEVER got an injury from a bow because I don’t do Archery.... Therefore, not doing Archery is the BEST Technique! 🤔
The archery community is filled with circle jerking elitist pricks when I checked them out. Makes me wanna puke. You can't have any type of discussion with them even if you disagree by a lil bit.
playerdude2 I know! I found that out the hard way! 😫 Ever since I was a kid, I’ve ALWAYS wanted to get into Archery. I was EXTREMELY FASCINATED with it. Especially with its use in various cultures. Unfortunately, I never had the opportunity to do any archery until adulthood. However, after meeting a few “Experts” from the Arching “Community”, I was so turned off because of their Elitism and how they would belittle you if you don’t ALREADY know EVERYTHING or do Archery THEIR way! Also, I found it funny how Nu wants to use something he knows nothing about (like Martial Arts) to support his argument for why HIS arrow placement IS the “Correct” way. I couldn’t facepalm hard enough! Well, NU, I do practice several different Martial Arts, and I can tell you, sometimes we DO straight punches the way you demonstrated! So again, by YOUR “logic”, Shad’s placement of his arrow is just as CORRECT as yours!
@@LukeSykpeMan But to be fair, most of the Community in this World even though had an Elitist in it, it doesn't mean that they were led by it. Having a Community that was led by an Elitist is just Bad.
"don't treat archery like religion" -Armin Hirmer, regarding to people who insists that arrows should only be placed on the left side of the bow while doing mediterranean draw style. 4:44 the solution for that is khatra it works. it's not impossible. end of story. I won't even watch the whole video. I've already proven to myself that it works. even without practice for this specific style, and haven't shot a bow for a whole year, I can do it normally without problems. this whole drama is just (sorry for the term) pathetic, honestly. it's just annoying how close-minded people can be. this literally isn't religion for fries sakes.
Religion shouldn’t be treasured like this either I. May be Christian I don’t get why we can’t all accept one another holy cow it urks me yes I want more people to believe in God but won’t force anyone and tell them they are going to hell Cause one that is rude two that is uncalled for like 9/10 times three God said to look the other way in the ORIGINAL Bible before it was changed by a king for his own goals and in thst Bible woman did a lot of great things to but in the “modified” version woman we’re degraded and people sue that version as proof that Christianity is hateful and other hateful lies
This why I hate school and religion. religion won't allow the school to let kids learn evolution and school won't allow Magic the gathering when it free time because it has religious figure **FUCK THEM!**
can't believe anyone argues about this, if you can shoot you can shoot , I've seen strange styles work fine for different people I knew a fellow who used his bow right hand draw/rest he managed to get lots of deer somehow
Shad has a back scabbard that works, is hated for being a more skilled warrior than most and FREQUENTLY does what others see as impossible...Shad are you a Witcher?
If I remember correctly, Shad said he lives in Australia, which would mean, he lives in one of the few places you can stumble upon Dragons today. Hell, he lives probably in the only place on modern day earth, where "every living creature wants to kill you" (including plant life, since I think the Ghumpighumpi tree grows there), which seems to align with the (honestly very little) knowledge I have of the world of the Witcher. But with his injuries and such I dare to say, he's either undercover or he isn't a full fletched Witcher yet.
I shoot a bow and I literally can’t stand the elitist archery community. They are like spandex wearing cyclists but worse because they think they have some esoteric knowledge to shame you with.
Some maybe are like that. But in most activities some techniques have become the accepted norm because experience has shown that they are the most likely to work well, why should archery be any different?
This applies to every "elitist" community though. I was just watching a video by Matt Easton Scholagladiatoria about whether or not "elitists" in HEMA were ruining the sport. Of course they do. Pompous Sh*ts ruin everything!
As a longbow archer from the UK who started in 1981, the arrow goes traditionaly over the hand, not the thumb. I do not use right or left as I am a left handed archer. However, shoot how you like, if it is safe and accurate.
You know. Funny thing is I've never seen someone unironically attribute unrealistic magical properties to katanas. I only ever see people complaining about all those katana fanboys I've never seen...
@@squirrelknight9768 I actually have met someone that genuinely believed in the superiority of the katana as a weapon in general. Like, this dude genuinely and deeply held the belief that in a one on one fight between a samurai and someone manning an MG42 the samurai would win. He was . . . odd, to say the least.
1000 years from now people will unearth some usb and find anime depicting legendary battles of a man and his sword and people will think that’s how it was smh
@@dreyn7780 M8. I think it was a joke? Also, CAPS LOCK is apparently DIFFICULT to turn OFF. XD I'm just teasing, don't worry, but seriously, maybe if youth is wasted on the young go find another audience to banter with. Best of luck!
@HYSTERIA MCR Depending on where in the UK you're from "love" can also be used in the same way. Especially if it's a woman talking to another woman xD I prefer mate for my passive-aggressiveness. We also say car-bonnet :)
Ian Coote : "As I've said before, I'm not in the slightest bit interested in your opinion of me or what you think of archery." Also Ian Coote : Comments on everything Shad posts with sentences that obviously shows his pride and ego is being attacked.
That guy was an ass. I hate mods that act that way. They get a tiny amount of power and then their ego gets the better of them. He made himself look bad.
Ian Coote is a piece of work. Gatekeeping is just wrong. Even worse when the gatekeeper is hypocritical, and suffering the world’s worst case of self serving denial.
Peeps like Ian Cote don't deserve such admins power. I've met acouple people like those and whenever they don't admit to being wrong and crap. I just legit make an essay of how many times their wrong and how they been proven wrong. I event shown pictures from.beginning to end of the argument and conversation to make it a fact. He couldn't say anything except "are you an admin? No? Good" Like bruh some people don't know when to chill the fuck out and no one gives two shits about pride and ego. Which is why I say owners or modders are stupid at times and shouldn't live if they act like that
Is it just me seeing the similarity between this recently suggested and proven hypothisis and when the first discoveries of dinosaurs where put forth. Scientists actual SCIENTISTS were insulting eachother openly in journals and in proffesional circles. Closed communities really dont like being challenged from newcomers.
@@donflamingo795 wich goes completely against the tenets of the scientific method and really shows how important it is that people incorporate them by heart into their thinking process
Scientists actually disagree about theories quite often. Being the son of a scientist I heard about this group or that person's theories potentially being wrong due to this or that. My father liked to challenge established theories and the elite on a regular bases. Go Dad. You are very right sir. This disagreement is just like those arguments.
@@bigernbladesmith yeah the problem is not the disagreements in fact is very healthy to challenge the accepted views. the problem is that often people dont take those desagreements in a rational way and end up insulting or misrepresenting the others arguments. the world would be a better place if people were more humble about their limitations.
When I was little I saved up for a recurve bow. I went to the archery shop and the owner was super nice and helpful. He helped me find a bow I liked and he let me shoot a few arrows from each bow until I found one I like. The first time I drew the bow I drew with the arrow on the right. The man immediately told me i was wrong and the arrow needed to be on the left side. I just looked up at him and asked why. The look he gave me can be easily summed as, you gotta a point kid proceed.
Shad Fact: Shad participated in a disc throwing tournament, so far three four forests, two cities, and one mountain have been destroyed. His second throw should cinch the compition.
Shad, I would argue that in modern stationary target shooting, people aren't even shooting on the "left" side of the bow, that's how they get the arrow on the rest, but compound bows are designed so that the arrow is in the middle of the riser completely in line with the string, therefore that argument for the left side being better for accuracy I don't think holds up in modern competition shooting
@@Mike23443 tell me about it, if he's going to have a centre shot could atleast make it a modern recurve or flat bow. also fun fact modern archery styles were developed in the victorian era and were developed from the french style of archery, which is very different from the british style. the difference was best captured in a medieval manuscript (can't remember which one off the top of my head) where the author was describing the difference between french and british archers saying how the french would "draw the string back" while the british would "bend the bow by leaning into it" which when you try it actually makes sense as it makes it a lot easier to shoot a heavy bow by pushing it forward rather than pulling back on the string
You mentioning 'rest' made me realize too, while having an arrow nocked but not cocked (using it just because it rhymes ^^), and having the arm down and waiting for Your turn to shoot, it's more comfortable to have the arrow on the left. So I'd say in a medieval battle scenario, while waiting for the enemy to close in and for the command, many would've had their arrow on the left, but put the following arrows on the right for more speed, less fumbling and space needed and better draws. And I guess the first shot's also more a calibration shot than the following.
@@eewweeppkk That works when you have a bunch of fellow archers, but you should probably still learn how to aim at the individual infantry because there is a lot of areas where even when aiming at a crowd an arrow has a good chance to get caught on armor, shields, other equipment or even bodyparts that aren't going to take someone out from a battle. Edit: Ideally, every archer in an army should be able to have pinpoint accuracy and be able to take targets individually.
The fact that I didn't know anything about archery prior to watching this video, and yet I watched the whole thing, is a testament to how entertaining and knowledgable you are. That, and your style of being mature, gracious, and logical. You can take that as high praise.
NUSensei really has the issue that speaks in definitives whilst also saying "he's not an expert". He says he has no vendetta but he's still so passive aggressive and disregards everything that shows any evidence that goes against what he's stating. Especially his recent video about it, one...ONE person injured themselves trying this as "proof" that this method is dangerous...but he also casually ignores the fact that this person tried to use a 170 pound bow on a draw menthod they had never practised and can only ("only") normally shoot 140 with the technique they know
He most certainly was not "causually ignoring" it. Nor using that as proof that the method is dangerous. He warned to "get too far too soon" which is directly refereing that - using too strong bows that are people not used to with this technique. In that video he also had part where Historical Archery channel (the one injured) explaining it exactly what you are pointing out. And diasagreement or different view on facts is not passive aggresion.
I get where NU is coming from, he might even have started "the wrong way" and gotten abrased for it, but either way, he was taught that the left side "in" was the ONLY way, from people he relied on were correct, but now that part has been proven incorrect, so his idols, his information, may have been not only wrong, but even outright lying. This is tough to take. I have over the years hit several similar revelations, they really make you wonder about what you've been taught vs logic.
I shot bows a few times going to all white church with me being mixed me and my bro and one black guy but besides indoctrination was fun . it don't surprise me people levels of ignorance knows no bounds.
Hello Shad, it's been 2yrs. since i saw this video of yours for the first time. I had to watch it again just for the humor and passion you put into it. Like you i get in a twist when someone acts like a authority when they're completely off the mark. This bit gave me a chuckle, because there's so much more of this guys ridiculous self righteous attitude today in every category. I hope you well. Looking forward to your next video
“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” - George R. R. Martin
@@mortenjacobsen5673 Shad went over each point individually and discussed why each point was incorrect or a lie. Either you don't know what logic means or you're just trolling. And I would assume you only watched the first but of the video seeing as only in the first bit going over how we got to this point was "debate decorum" mentioned. Everything past that is, well, logic and evidence. He's passionate and annoyed so that somehow discredits everything he says is idiotic at best. People can be angry and correct just as they can be angry and wrong.
@@mortenjacobsen5673 You need a hypothesis to explain how shooting a bow works.... He never claimed sport injuries don't exist. 0_o That's you making a strawman at best. Being sore is not an injury. Nor did Shad claim you couldn't get injured. Same as with drawing on the left side, there's a potential for injury, as he said. Which you are lying about him saying otherwise. He said when he shoots a bow AT ALL he takes 2-3 days rest in-between. Not that shooting on the right was somehow more exhausting. And even if it was, he's using some different muscles that haven't been trained as much for this particular activity. And once they're trained up like the rest, there won't be any difference in ability and recovery times. If you used your left arm for absolutely everything for a few years, then suddenly started using your right arm, it's going to take a little while for your right arm to get up to the same level as your left arm. And in that process you'd have to rest it for longer periods to start with. But that entirely irrelevant here as he said he always rests for those 2-3 days between now practice. But what else will you take out of context and strawman?
@@mortenjacobsen5673 More strawmaning and lies. The argument of "changing sides negatively affected arm alignment" is bullcrap. Bloody hell there's no point talking to you.
@@mortenjacobsen5673 "One cna only have or voice an opinion if You Morten, recognize them as such (aka, they agree with you) if they are an expert in said field." Got it.
"I can't shoot an arrow from the right when using a technique made for shooting it from the left"-type of arguments are just great. Yeah, I can't drive a British car from the left front seat because I can't reach the pedals. But that doesn't mean that British people cannot drive cars. It just means that I refuse to get into the actual driver's seat because I'm adamant that the only proper seat for the driver is the front left one, actual pedal placement be damned.
Exactly. it only proves, that the British can't built cars properly :P Honestly, your point is perfectly made. When someone wants something to fail, then it will. Since this can even happen uncontiously, this means we are our own worst enemy in data gathering. That's what the scientific method is for. I'm not sure if we ever get a good study about this topic, but it would be nice to have.
@@Gnarlf then again, most mail delivery cars in right side traffic countries are imported from left side traffic countries as that's the cheapest way to allow the mail courrier to access the mail boxes at the curb without leaving the car :P
@@SonsOfLorgar Wow interesting to know. i had no idea. I guess ours are to far away from the curb, mostly at the walls of the buildings, so that wouldn't work here. our mail service built their cars "themself", beacause it was the cheapest way to get them all/mostly electric and with their specifications.
The original interpretation, I think, was that the mediterranean draw was by nature a technique made and only suited for shooting from the left. However, this interpretation has been pretty much disproven
@@Gnarlf Nah, it's just because if you drive on the left side of the road, you get a better view if the driver's side is switched. I know a lady who took her British car to Paris, where they drive the opposite side. She said there were times when she was in busy traffic and her visibility was reduced and it was scary. Our infrastructure is built according to us driving on the left, to change now would cause chaos and cost the taxpayer stupid amounts of money. For what purpose? We're an island, pretty much, it's not like she share a land boarder with a country who drives on the opposite side of the road, and there is this awkward bottleneck on the boarder. So, I guess the UK will probably stay that way. Until the plague gets us that is :/
My dad had a bow and arrows 🏹 when I was growing up and I often practiced with it in the ash down forest in Sussex. We practiced on the right side. It’s easier to quickly mount the arrow on the right. You notch it onto the string, hold it in place, lift, aim, pull, and release. Easy. I can’t believe this is a thing to debate.
"Tradition encourages dogma" A-frickin-men, Shad. As an avid martial artist I love watching those videos, also I chuckled when Nu said you dont punch in a vertical fashion, and immediately you brought up Bruce Lee
I only took one month of martial and one of the first movement they thaught me was a counter attack to the ribs after deflecting a punch by punching in a vertical fashion
Even funnier: Lee got that punching style from Jack Dempsey's famous book on boxing as self-defense, where he argues (very convincingly and adding diagrams) that punching with a vertical fist _improves_ your alignment and mades your structure stronger (line of power), particularly if you're not using gloves. It makes also easier to keep your elbow from flaring out. This page expands on the idea, adding Dempsey's original diagram and an example from art Greek: revgearsports.com/vertical-straight-punch/
@@Malamockq your argument is bad too. Left handed archers hold bow with a hand which is opposite to their primary eye. Also, there is no correlation between handedness and hand strength. I'm left handed, but my right side is stronger and I can't aim with a weapon on the left aiming line (don't know how to call it).
Actually that is the first sentence you need to know in debating, especially if it is in politics, science, etc.. Other like culture, historical may be some what a little bias here and there.
Two other great ones are to "Accept your losses" and "Know when to leave. Not everyone is going to accept their losses". Saves you a lot of time and effort on the long-run, and keeps you away from frustration or helps you deal with it when it does happen.
I did archery for quite some years now. Im still learning new stuff. And i love to try out new techniques. I shoot on the left side, because i have learned it that way. I would even do that in combat that way, and in close combat (10m and below), use a sword. But i also say, that if other people do it different, and it works ... that is pretty cool. And i see no reason, why people in the middle ages wouldn't have put the arrow on the right side. I think both ways to shoot are valid. If you need high accuracy, for example because the enemy is 50m away, you use the left side (if its more accurate). If he is closer, you use the right side. Just do it the way, wich suits the situation best. There is not THAT ONE WAY to shoot. In the german military for example, the sniper instrucors have a saying: "the success prooves the shooter right." Conclusion: as long as you hit your target reliably, you do it the right way. Good video btw.
This kinda reminds me of when I was teaching my buddy's wife to shoot. She was right handed but left eye dominant. A "professional" shooting instructor had previously forced her to use her right eye and her accuracy and confidence suffered as a result. Got her using the left again and the improvement was dramatic. Remember the rule of, "what works, wins."
It always annoys me too when the shooting "Elitists" show up. First thing they teach you about marksmanship in the military: "Assume a comfortable firing position." Doing it however is more comfortable for you that doesn't impede on your breathing or accuracy is far more important than having a "perfect" form, because perfect is a generalization.
@@trekadouble757 Ditto on the mixed dominance. I never had any formal archery teaching, so I had to teach myself everything through pure experimentation. While it has been many long years since I even picked up a bow... when I think back on this part of my youth, I don't recall ever having crossed the arrow to the inside. I don't think it ever occurred to me to place the arrow on the inside of the bow. It's just far more intuitive to shoot from the outside.
Just like me. I'm right handed, ambidextrous eye dominant. I use which eye works best for the particular scenario at hand and my accuracy is just fine.
"What works, wins"...hmm...how to disprove that... Oh, I know! Plagiarism! Rote memorisation instead of learning! They can both "work", but do they "win"? Nope!
From an outsider's perspective, this is the weirdest thing to argue over. Imagine people claiming it was LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to hold a spoon with two fingers and a thumb instead of holding a spoon in your fist. Well I suppose it's not all that strange. Throughout history people have aggressively opposed changes to any number of things with unnecessarily strong pushback, and there's no use pretending we're so much more enlightened than our ancestors.
nah, i think this argument is closer to the which hand do you hold your knife and fork argument, who cares if it's comfortable to you and doesn't harm anyone else, unless intended
@@MrTrilbe my neighbor was left handed as a kid... his father forced him to use his right hand for god knows what reason... guy was from Lebenan so take your guess
UA-cam in 3020: "the people of the 20th century DID have the toilet paper with the tear on the outside! There are several written examples and treatises that support this! The artists who depict it hanging with the tear towards the walls were perhaps not personally familiar with its use and traditions. Similar to how you might operate the zero-point-powered dimensional teleporter to get to work. But perhaps not understand the quantum mechanics to explain it. In addition, tearing the toiletpaper when it is hanging toward the wall increases tear and unnecessary strain on the knuckles of the left hand when taking paper for use."
That Ian Coote fellow is really annoying and obnoxious. I've met a lot of people like him and they are quite prevalent among the software engineers, where each approach to doing stuff (be it OOP or functional, or whatever) is basically a religion. So I admire your self control, honestly, I don't think I would be able to be so chill.
Nerthym really hit the spot. I had a lecturer who gave me a fail for a code I wrote. My code worked, no bugs, shorter than his own code and use less processing cycles.... yet I was wrong 😂😂
In college right now for software development, many of the students with prior experience and professors alike are these self-proclaimed intellectuals, that like to talk down to everyone. I can't stand it, it gets so annoying.
Id also like to add, while as a literal newborn archer I have found Nu's videos very helpful, when it comes to medieval history, im definitely siding with you shad, being a longterm viewer of your content.
When my parents thought me how to shoot a bow they told me to shoot it from the right side. That was the traditional way to shoot as this is also the only way to pull the string all the way to the ear and the string won't interfere with your body. I'm slavic, a Bulgarian and this makes sense to me. We were horses archers back in the days and shooting from the left on a horse back means you'll never be able to pull the bow string to a full length.
@@wernerviehhauser94 for one thing it's easier to place the arrow in position and your draw to release time shouldn't be that long while riding no handed . 😀
In 1995, I was 10 years old and was a Boy Scout - we learned archery and it was 100% on the right side of the bow (or left for a left handed shooter). My mind is blown this is even a debate.
When i learned, the fibreglass (or something cheap like that) bows we were taught on only had the plastic arrow rests on one side... left for right shooters, and right for left shooters, so i learned to shoot with it on the left, but since i heard about the "debate" i tried a bit of shooting from the right just using my extended thumb as a rest, instead of my knuckle (on my practice barebow... my recurve is set up for shooting from the left side only since it's not ambidextrous). Didn't really take much practice to get used to it. The biggest difference was just having to try and adjust my aim point hugely since now it was going off the right side instead of the left, and since it's a cheap practice bow i used to use as a teen in our woods, with my regular arrows, they're not balanced for it even remotely, so huge archer's paradox issues. But even with all that, it doesn't take long to adapt, and with a properly balanced bow and arrows i assume you'd probably be able to shoot it from either side reliably and consistently, if you had a good aim point.
When you work for many years to master your craft, it’s hard to accept that something you have been doing could possibly be wrong. People don’t like to question themselves or the “masters” that taught them.
Martial Arts student: "Why, oh great martial arts grandmaster who taught the master of my master's master, should I tie my belt with three loops around my waist when it's too short and restricts my movement?" Great Martial Arts Master: "I don't know! The only reason I did three loops is because I'm short and I'd trip on my belt if I didn't!"
That is absolutely why mcdojos and "fake" martial arts are a thing. What used to be effective learning tools are now taught as actual practical techniques because the game of telephone through generations loses the nuance of usefulness vs tradition. "This technique can't be bad in combat because I practiced it 1000 times to get the muscle memory correct. My style can't be suboptimal because part (or all) of my identity is this martial art so of it's wrong, I've wasted my life." They're wrong that they wasted their life of course, but the same thing is true about die hard Reagan or Obama supporters. Blinded to objective truth because you've placed too much of your own self worth in the value of this thing outside yourself.
A true "master" knows that there is no such thing. You get better as time goes on through learning different and opposing styles, techniques, and movements and incorporating elements of them into your own. An easy example would be the creation of MMA through the fusion of several martial arts creating a style with actual, unchoreographed combat in mind. (note I'm not saying martial arts are bullshit, I practiced karate for years, I'm simply pointing out that most styles of fighting are built to counter that very same style. It's that exact reason that I incorporate everything from boxing to straight out brawling in my personal style.)
Let’s be clear here for everyone watching. All of these people are not “bad” people. They’ve been doing archery for a long time and are conservative when it comes to new techniques(not really new) that are counter to what they’ve been taught. It’s Pride in their knowledge that sets them against what Shad is doing. It’s up to us to use logic and evidence to prove to these people that what they know about shooting on the right side is completely false and to disprove their Pride based assumptions.
I don't know dude, seems to me like one's head need to be stuck rather deep within their own digestive tract to be so vitriolic over something as trivial.
You know what this remind me of? Elitist in any arts. For example classical musician will look down on jazz musician and in turn jazz musician will look down on rock musician. It just go down the line from claasical to pop music. Everyone will argue their style is correct while the one that actually experiment with all the styles will learn the most. Purist/Elitist are pretty annoying people. And Shad is the experiment type of person which i respect. Shad channel is to look into historic weapons and what could be or had been. Nu Sensei and the likes are perfecting their own form of archery. Like different purpose in their channel. I don't even know why he need to act like an authority on historic archery when he didn't have a firm grasp on history of archery. His channel isnt even about history.
Well then I really hope the Instant Legolas that Joerg made becomes popular. Even the basic version will allow someone who never touch a bow before to launch a bolt on first try. Just imagine the gatekeepers scream. Wonder if someone would make a 3D printed version...
The thing about NUSensei that I find weird is that he needs to constantly say bow attachments don't make anything easier for the shooter, they just 'make nearly impossible shots possible' as if that's not the same thing. He needs to make sure everyone knows he's not using 'training wheels' or something. If they don't do anything, why were they invented and in use? Adding a counter-balance? No, doesn't make the shot easier because "I still have to bring the bow on target and execute the shot." Yeah and the bow is balanced now so it's literally taking weight off your wrist. Sounds easier to me. Adding a sight? No, that doesn't make the shot easier ether because he 'still has to aim' or some shit. Adding a clicker to know when you're at full-draw? No, doesn't make it easier because I still have to pull the string back to there. The guy is really good at archery but the second he opens his mouth he comes across as an idiot. There's no shame in using bow attachments until you are actively arguing that they don't make shooting easier. Why are you using them then? He even said, "Your car has power steering, but you still have to drive it." Yeah, and when my power steering goes out, know what I realize? How much more difficult driving my car has become...
well everyone has access to the same aids. whether they make it easier or not depends on your position in the field in terms of ability. aids reduce the skill gap of the field. if you're the worst guy there then aids are fantastic. if you're the tiger woods of archery then it makes your life much more difficult. which makes for a better sporting event? i guess it depends if you want to see the best rise to the top or whoever randomly gets hot that week.
@@jrs4516 Accessories are making shooting more consistent. They are not making the competition easier. The point with accessories is that it removes the uncertainty that comes from the equipment. No matter how good archer you are, a 70m competition with a self bow would be like throwing dice. It would be impossible to judge the difference between two equally skilled archer. In this sense NUSensei is correct. to compete with an Olympic bow he has to practice equally hard than to compete with a traditional bow. He is however wrong when saying that it is not easier to shoot the Olympic bow. For the same person, on the same target from the same distance one has to practice less with an Olympic bow to achieve the same score.
I don't know anything about archery but have watched some of Nu's videos. What he's saying about the bow attachments is that they don't do everything for you. They don't aim for you, they don't loose the arrow for you so you still have to practice. The reason why he's saying all those things is because he has come across people wanting to learn archery thinking the attatchments do all the work.
I mean, that's like saying "scopes on sniper rifles don't make anything easier" because they're just making super long distance shots possible, or "red dots on rifles don't make anything easier" because you still have to aim your gun to land a hit. Yeah, but it's easier to do so and therefore generally faster.
@@hueyiroquois3839 of course, ideally we would never graze our arm/sleeve/bracers with the bow string. Not good for the string, not good for our aim. But Murphy's law is applicable to most scenarios if not all.
I don't remember who said this, but I've always remembered it: If a scientist tells you that something is possible, he's probably right. If a scientist tells you that something is impossible, he's probably wrong.
"Because the string is gonna hit your arm" is the funniest argument. Leather gauntlets and other wrappings for the arm exist and have existed (i assume) for as long as the bow has
Most eastern archers avoid this by doing a slight twist in the wrist so that way when they shoot and loose their arrows. Check out this movie called War of Arrows a good one to check out how they used recurve bows and shooting the right side of the bow without issue of string slapping the arm and without the arrow falling off the right side. Don't give me the excuse "oh because it's a different bow!" No no. It's like saying "hey that's a different gun so it should be used in this kind of way" Edit: and also the fact people like Ian Cote are delusional admin/modder is outstanding how dumb people are when they can't accept their wrong. Nah they hang too much to their ego and pride.
Because the greatest concern when you are trying to use an item meant to kill is the string damaging your arm. Is not like in the context the bow is made to deal with there's already bigger things to worry about. I found that barely a non issue anyway.
@@johnmarc1986 WIth a big war bow, say 120 - 160 lb you are going to want a wrist guard just in case anyway. If the string does catch your wrist you are going to seriously know about it if shooting a big bow like that! Also shooting in battle is not like civilian target shooting, generally you are not shooting at individual targets but clout shooting at an area. Its only if the enemy is close that you are picking out individual targets and shooting at a flat trajectory. Its a completely different style of archery compared to competition shooting.
Never thought I'd watch an hour and a half of beef over how you shoot an arrow, when I've never touched a real bow in my life. It was still interesting and informative though.
@@vanivanov9571 So, you have no actual understanding of context? Being that his frustration was with how he used the source. You've also claimed you carefully watched the video and contradict that claim immediately after by showing a blatant disregard for the arguments made you stated " I wrote a full-length rebuttal of his many, many lies. A fun one was when he blew a gasket for Nu using a source from 1515" If your example of a "lie" is that someone got mad, you're an idiot. That's coming from someone who doesn't give a damn about archery, I just care about decent arguments. Another important factor that is that even in the event that Shad was to insult this guy, that doesn't invalidate any argument he makes, it would make him an asshole, but being an asshole doesn't make you wrong. That'd be a genetic fallacy if you tried to apply that reasoning so I'd suggest avoiding it. I suppose it's always easier to claim the opposition is a liar rather than accept fault
@@dakotamartin3119 Shh 🤫 The NU fanboy didn't come here to listen to reason, he came here to regurgitate stuff NU has said... I mean he clearly either didn't watch the video, didn't watch it attentively and carefully enough or simply lacks the intelligence/knowledge to understand what is being said in the video... Sorry if I was a bit mean there, just fed up with the guy, seen his comments in a couple comment threads here and he clearly isn't here to have a debate or a discussion but to regurgitate his already held opinions and blocks out any logical arguments that do not support said opinions...
You should always respond to serious critique because that is what encourages and exposes the truth of the subject. For all you know, you could create a rebuttal of an argument and then the other person explains it in a way that shows you didn't really understand what they meant or that you overlooked something and had the wrong idea.
You just simplified the heart of Science. Make a guess, try to prove it, let others try and disprove it, and then move forward with the best answer. It may not be perfect but it's the best system we've come up with so far and I'm pretty happy with it.
@@fictionmyth Couldn't agree more, I just wish it hadn't fallen out of practice recently. When it comes to science students in uni aren't being taught the Socratic method and many scientific fields are turning into political or economical industries where you agree or you aren't a part of those fields, which has led to these "scientific" groups essentially conning the public for personal gain. Take corn subsidies, when they were first introduced everyone in relevant fields said it was a terrible idea and listed off the reasons which ranged from spread of disease to the biological impacts on people. That argument is still being made today but not by a single person employed in those government agricultural sectors, while those people who are just ignore the arguments against and put up the vaguest arguments for why it isn't bad, not even for why it is good.
Shad here are two arguments that prove exactly how wrong you are about this. I know you are a religious man so the first argument is therefore totally valid. First of all, if the good Lord had meant for us to shoot a bow on the right side, then He would have created us with both eyes on the right side. Secondly, Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! I rest my case.
BonrekTheOrc I spent at least 4-5 hours trying to poke holes in your argument. I even called distant friends and relatives trying to get their opinion on this, even though they’ve never shot bows before. Alas, your argument was so damn airtight, I had to walk away in failure and accept the fact that I was beaten.
@@PSUQDPICHQIEIWC They're both filthy Xenos scum, brother. The Emporer told us which side of the bow to use! He taught us it's the side that kills all the treasonous heretics and that pushes the vile Xenos back into the Immaterium. So long as the bow fires towards the enemy, that is the correct way! Fret not for which hand holds the sword, worry only that the sword swings! The Emporer Protects!
I love how he says that it can't be possible yet a lot of traditional Japanese archery actually shoot from the right side and put their face off against the bow and turn their head before shooting even though the bow is as big as them they do it because they can draw all the way back
@@AverageAlien no it's not, Western bows primarily draw backwards with one arm, a yumi isnt drawn as such but opened with back muscles equally separating the tsuru from the dou.
Wow. I can't understand their point of view. Shad says "Here's a thing I found out." "Here's how I came to this conclusion:(Insert historical sources, logical deductions, and empirical data)." But it isn't good enough for them. These actually smart and skilled individuals can't stand that someone else knows something they don't I guess. Very harmful to humanity, let alone the archery community.
I feel these types who are outright denying that you can shoot well notched right side have the same stubborn mindset of idiot FErs. I'm getting the same feel from Nu's video that i do from seeing clips of FLERFS lol. strawmaning, ignoring obvious truths, and grabbing the wrong proofs this thought might be a bit harsh
I'm a sport archer but with keen interest in medieval archery. I have to say that right side shooting is not only possible, but also has a couple of good reasons. First of all, it is way faster to put an arrow that way. Also, there is a thing of your 'main' eye which means that with a non-profiled medieval bow it might be easier for some people to just align the arrow with the other eye than the majority. And that are just like the two thing that came to my mind ad hoc...
I think all these people need some basic training in Bayesian logic. - This art is accurate in this regard, and this regard, and this regard.This is relatively strong evidence that the artist is trying to be accurate. - People in medieval times were often familiar with archery, as evidenced by this source, and this source and this source. That is weak evidence that the artist was also familiar with archery. - From that we can infer some weak evidence that the art is accurate in regards of archery as well. - Put together enough weak evidence and you can be pretty confident in the results. It would also help them decouple their opinion from their person: your beliefs don't define you. You can, and should, drop incorrect beliefs like as much useless junk. Are Shad's points incorrect? I have no clue. I do know that "you're an idiot" is not a refutation of his arguments, and as such sets off my bozometer.
Small evidence from every were and time that are not of the same influence(bias) make conclusions more close to true then false.If they point to the same target but the source are unrelated and independent.
the art thing kinda reminds me of hte whole "We don't know what this weapon was for, it looks rather impractical... MUST'VE BEEN FOR CEREMONIAL PURPOSES!!!" thing. Basically "They do not do it like we imagine it today, so it must be wrong!". I can understand not wanting to interprete too much into art due to errors or artistic choices by the artist, but completely disregarding anything that goes against what's currently accepted as accurate also ain't the right way, unless it can be proven wrong. Otherwise it makes no sense to use medieval art as reference for anything, including clothing, arms and armour because´... well... because it could be WRONG!!!
By you "logic" 500 years into the future, films should be considered relatively strong evidence. Also films made in hollywood would be considered weak supporting evidence for things most americans are familiar with (cars, takeaway food, shopping malls, guns etc). Films are usually accurate in that gravity goes the right way, ATM's usually function how they're meant to (card in, number in, money out, card out), as well other trivial things like automatic doors, elevators and escalators, how to order dinner from a waiter/waitress as well as the complex human interactions (condescension, spite, politeness, etc) associated with such an exchange. Further, films get it right that: silencers on guns make any gun wisper (a science we've lost to time), that shooting a gun gangster style is a sensible method, and that you need to repeatedly cycle guns, even for models of gun that we know for a fact don't actually need it ( we know as a fact because the former empire of the U.S.A is littered in them, meaning most museums have such examples of open bolt guns). Similarly, it was common place to have extended, eye contacted, conversations while driving a car from the 1960s (which proves that cars had some self driving ability in the 1960s, 50 years earlier than most historians say they did) and that the average car crash has an above 50% chance of an explosion (which we know is credible because usually the films showed the accurate use of the archaic gearbox as well as countersteering while drifting around a corner, immediately before the explosion). Coming back to the 2020s: I'm sure you can shoot a longbow with the arrow on the right side of the bow, probably rather accurately too. I'm also sure you could, with enough practice, learn to do with with you feet (ua-cam.com/video/ihnnRZhculg/v-deo.html proof in case you want actual proof that can be done). That doesn't mean either method is smart or anything other than a curiousity that someone decided to record. Shad is almost definitely wrong, the fact that he can't even gracefully acknowledge that kind of puts all of his work into doubt.
@@stephaniewilson3955 4+4=8, you idiot. What about now? Will you stay true to your statement and deny that that 4+4=8 or will you be sensible and admit that truth is truth and that status is completely irrelevant as to whether the truth is said with roses and lily's or with spite and hate. I'll admit it's hard to admit you're wrong to a wanker. But morally speaking... Well that's entirely up to you. You can encourage a lie (thus becoming a petty liar) because you don't like the person, or you can stand for truth and admit you were wrong but still maintain your self respect.
When I got my first bow, I felt the need to shoot the arrow from the right side over my thumb because I wanted to "line my eye with the shaft." Eventually, I did find that drawing and firing from the left was more comfortable, however when it came to moving targets running from my left to my right, I often fired with my arrow on the right.
Shad, man you should stick to swords... here's why. . Sword Guy1: Hey! you have a sword? Sword Guy2: Yeah! I have a sword :D Sword Guy1: Alright! we should be friends! XD . Archer Guy1: Hey! you have a bow? Archer Guy2: Yeah! I have a bow and I kinda like shooting on the right side Archer Guy1: ... Archer Guy2: ... Archer Guy1 & Guy2: WE ARE MORTAL ENEMIES!!!!
just don't tell a longsword guy you own a katana... or vice versa. though my favourate was the time I demonstrated half swording with a katana to a katana nut (yes it can be done in a modified manner, you just have to keep your fingers off the cutting edge) the advantages of training in both eastern and western styles. you get to p**s everyone off tehehehehehe
crwydryny I don’t understand why people think some aspects of human invention cannot be changed in anyway, like it’s hit it functional peak. Reality is change and if you can’t change you get forgotten
The thing that really did it for me is that even the detractors admit that you can shoot faster but loose acuracy sligtly. Now... why would you want to get more arrows into an enemy formation at the cost of shooting for the body and not bullseyes? Can't think of a single reason.
I mean this is the problem of trying to apply Sports Logic when talking about War and Practicality. it just simply doesn't work. For instance a sniper rifle is GREAT for ONE SPECIFIC THING, but trying to act like just because it's more accurate and great at longer distances, means that it's the best for up close shooting is just INSANE. But this also shows a SERIOUS danger of when you apply Modern Approach to Ancient Times. I mean things were just DIFFERENT back then. Not to mention the dangerous of a lay person trying to understand things from a Professional. I mean I've seen it with people who don't know how to read Research Papers who create wild claims like "Chocolate is good for you and you should eat lots of it!" when that's NOT what the original paper said at all. There's things like Sample Size and Generalization concerns. An ANY good academic is going to be open to new ideas and exchanges. Hell considering the WEALTH of information these historians have, he could get all KINDS of ideas for his videos. Like showing off a "Then vs Now" type of thing.
A few loud people in their heads: "This bastard didn't give up on experiencing new things like I did. He might make me look like a fool. TEAR HIM DOWN."
and this is the very reason that even after more than 25 years of archery, and 30 years of martial arts I stay away from those communities. toxic doesn't begin to explain some of them. "oh you don't do things the same way I do, that must mean you're doing it wrong," heck I've even had someone complain at me about being "too agressive" with a sword during a demonstration because I treated it as a weapon not a fairy wand. (needless to say that guy's head was so far up his own faecal excretion chute that not many people in the organisation liked him lol) this is one of the good things with people like shad, metatron, skall, matt ect, they at least are open minded enough to look at other ways of doing things, sometimes they find those things don't work for them other times they do. and that's how we progress in life, by experimenting and trying new things and seeing if they work. for example when shooting my bow, I don't draw the string back but rather I push the bow forward with my body weight while holding the string in place. I've only ever met one other person who did it this way until I taught a friend how to do it (due to an injury that made it hard for her to draw her bow normally)
As someone who's never shot a bow in his life, I always thought that the "correct" way to shoot the arrow was on the right side of the bow. From just a logical standpoint, I think shooting the arrow on the right side of the bow makes the most sense. It's much quicker than threading the arrow through the string and bow (as is done on the left side), and as Shad mentioned, the extreme precision wasn't needed in medieval warfare. It's just my gut reaction. I would have *never* thought to do it the way that it's "supposedly" done.
Shad. I have a point to make that theoretically makes shooting on the right side more safe and less injury prone. I am a certified athletic trainer (yes the fanny pack guy if you watch pro sports.) ATs are a sports teams medical staff and are trained in orthopedic injuries, rehabilitation, and biomechanics. Typically a rounded shoulder (rolling the shoulder forward) will tend to lead to injury over a long period of time. Mainly impingements and rotator cuff injuries. What you demonstrated how how to shoot on the right side of the bow, I would say that you actually had better back and shoulder posture/alignment and can engage your back and scapular muscles more effectively by having your palm rotated out and shoulder rotated back (like you demonstrated). Basically what I am saying is that when you say you felt like you used more of your back muscles when shooting on the right is correct, you do engage your back muscles more in that posture. And I believe most medical staff would agree in saying that engaging those muscles more effectively and in better posture is less injury prone and is usually more biomechanically sound. Hope this helps or at least makes an interesting point. I personally only have a small amount of experience shooting bows but enjoy doing so when I get the chance. Thanks.
And when I say rolling of the shoulder I am talking more about movement of the scapula not just the humerus. Movement of the scapula does effect positioning of the humerus. Generally in upper limp activities, the better the scapular positioning more more efficient the movement which does tend to decrease injury. And yes of course trying a new technique takes practice and a gradual increase in weight/resistance to strengthen the proper muscles. All archery techniques have some risk of injury as does anything else.
@@benturner1053 Hey Ben. My left shoulder has 2 intact ligaments left. One is torn. The other two are gone. That shoulder has a tendency to pop out under any stress or stain. I have gotten good at popping it in when it pops out. Suggestions are appreciated. I am sick and tired of it.
Jon Murray sounds like you probably have a torn labrum with maybe some other stuff going on. It is surgically repairable. As far as exercises go, I’d start with some theraband shoulder strengthening exercises. Many baseball pitchers do them to help prevent injury. They’re easy to google. The exercises won’t fix the issue but by strengthening all the muscles around the shoulder you will help keep it more stable. But ultimately it sounds like it will require surgery. If you’re not in the US... good luck getting into a doctor and scheduling surgery if they’ll even do it. Either way try the theraband exercises. If you do get the surgery then you’ll be doing them in physical therapy anyway so you’ll be ahead of the game.
Jon Murray try the theraband exercises. Start with lighter resistance and work your way up in weight as tolerated. And stay within a pain-free range of motion (don’t strain to go as far as you can). With time and reps, you’re strength and ROM (within the exercises) will increase. You should notice that your shoulder pops out of place less and less after you’ve built up that strength. Look up shoulder abduction, scaption, flexion, internal rotation and external rotation. All these exercises have variations for free weights, therabands, etc. I’ve even had patients use cans of soup as their weights. Make sure you keep your shoulders back/chest up and have good posture during the exercises so you get the most out of the exercise and avoid forming an impingement.
Shad thanks for talking about this I used to love archery but stopped doing it because people would tell me I was doing it wrong when I was very young I didn't know that other people even used the right side so thanks perhaps I'll try it again.
Who would have thought that something as simple as shooting a arrow from the right side of a bow would cause so much unnecessary drama
Try living in Texas and ordering a steak well done. People are fantic about stupid things.
To be fair if you like well done steak you don't deserve respect
"Who would have thought that something as simple (...) would cause so much unnecessary drama."
Well, it is 2020 after all. If people don't do everything with unnecessary drama, are they doing anything at all?
@@EdgyPuer thanks for proving the point.
As a child, I shot off the right side of my bow. Granted it was a compound bow with an ambidextrous grip and arrow rest, I was just holding the bow upside down.
But it seemed NATURAL to shoot on the right, you can't tell me Medieval grunt archers were trained in modern target shooting rather than put down a field from a hay bale and told to get their grouping smaller.
This is seriously the biggest case of gate keeping and goal post moving I have seen in a while. Every time you disprove their arguments, they change the argument. First it was impossible. Then it was impossible with a certain style of grip. Then it was "dangerous". Then it was just "impractical". Then it was only historically inaccurate. Then it was just "unlikely". Literally they can't just be humble and say they were wrong and shut up....
Unfortunately most people are stubborn are best and children at worst. Even worse is that they don't recognize it most of the time to either fix it or at the least tell people they have that problem
I guess these are people that just can't stand losing face or admit that they are wrong. They then double down and cherry-pick supporting data (from the wrong sources nonetheless 🤣). They'd rather die a fool than to admit they're wrong. Some would love to let it go but painted themselves so far into a corner it'd feel very unsettling to give up their position exactly because it has become so ridiculous. It takes courage to stop the bullshitting, raise your hands and say "what was I thinking?!"
They can't stand facts.
Look at the eastern cultures most of them are using the right side of the bow because it works very well. Mongols known for their horse archers and cavalry. They conquered half of the world larger empire than Alexander the Great.
@@ThatGuyBobby cool name to you too :)
@TRUTH CENSORED no historian who actually studies history in an honest way would agree with you. The only people who would are people who aren't interested in history for its own sake, but are rather interested in it for the sake of furthering a specific agenda.
Archers: argues over left side vs right side
Crossbow men: da fu*k they doing over there?
Musketeer: there is only one correct answer
Slingshot shooter: what if both sides the same?
@Abdulkarim Elnaas spearman: pokey stick
@@Strawberry-12. how would it change, if the bow was thick enough to have a hole in the center of the bow, so that the arrow can be shot through the middle? (probably a dumb question, but a fun fantasy question, got the idea from the Minecraft bow animation)
@@sweetlifealley I was talking about on which side to shoot a musket, because if you shoot a musket (flintlock, I’m not sure about matchlock) the flash would go off in you face and cover your face in soot. I do think the hole in the middle would be cool
This is over 1 hour video. Yet someone summarized it for me like:
Meanwhile in medieval age:
Apprentice: "Should I put the arrow on left side or right side?"
Teacher: "If you can hit the target put it in you ass for what I care ."
Fucking Legend...
If I were a king or noble and this left vs. right arguement was going on -- I'd organize an archery contest to see which one wins.
@@elderscrollsswimmer4833 if I was a king or noble I would tax the peasants double for not getting along and extend there field hours.
Think it might depend somewhat on the situation... like one on one instruction where limited tradition and like "thats how i do it, thats how you will learn" while armed masses for warfare would be basically "whatever as long as it gets arrows downrange"
This isn't even a left or right argument. This is a 'don't say something is impossible or incorrect when it is completely possible and isn't any less effective' argument.
If it works for you and lead to an adequate result, no one has the right to tell you that you're doing it wrong.
Sure, you might be able to improve your technique somehow or archive better results using another technique in certain circumstances, but that doesn't make your method wrong.
Coote & Company: "It's impossible to shoot from the right side of the bow and you're stupid for trying."
Me: "Um, yeah. Sure." *pegs another deer while firing from the right side as he has done for nearly four decades* "Seems to work just fine for me, but I shoot prey in the wilderness to put food on the table, not targets in a controlled environment to stroke my ego, so what do I know? I'm just a dumb plebe who doesn't understand the nuances of Elite Archery."
This comment needs more likes. Breandan, you should go-pro your next kill and post it as a reply... it would prove it true.
Snark and Truth tied together into one beautiful statement. Today sir you win the internet...
Wait, you're hunting with warbows? Full-on Welsh style?
Curious, is that how you learned it? Was it self-discovery?
Most people shoot left man, I've been bowhunting hundreds of time, never seen a single person shoot right but I'm not sharing you can't or you don't, if you do props to you man. Most archers shoot left though is idk why anyone wouldn't do it the way majority does but whatever floats your boat
Shad after his surgery has like 300% more energy and frankly that scares me.
He is slowly becoming a god. I think he's even also lost weight.
@@zatoby6705 A he has lost weight, partly due to not being able to eat properly after the surgery, and B just wait until he gets the nose surgery done. Suddenly he'll start fireing arrows that hit targets behind him, circling the entire world to do so.
I know right.
The gods bestowed the blockage to restrain his power.
Lol
This reminds me of a story my biology lecturer told me. So these two scientists discovered that stomach ulcers are caused by bacteria. They informed the medical community, but they got ridiculed and yelled at, being told that, no, ulcers are caused by stress. They presented all the evidence. They showed their results. Medical community didn't care because it was believed for so long that it was indeed stress. One of the scientists eventually was like "Na I'm done" and got himself checked for ulcers. He didn't have any. Then he chugged a culture of the bacteria they were studying. Got checked again. And would you look at that, he had ulcers now. Sweet, he just took some antibiotics and he was cured again. It literally took a scientist to DRINK STRAIGHT UP BACTERIA just to convince people a common belief was incorrect despite their evidence.
Whenever people describe scientists and the community as perfectly logical and that peer review is a good system, I point to situations like this (my favorite is John Snow and the Broad Street Pump) that are fairly modern that show a clear cognitive bias in the wider community. The number of times I've seen people go into circular logic arguing a point and refuse to break out is astounding.
ClayXros it’s the human ego, these people want their names in the discovery. And let alone for it to be wrong, no way someone so “smart” can handle being wrong
@@dudemanbroguy3464 Being smart, and being humble aren't mutually exclusive.
According to the doctors my friend has consulted, some are still not convinced! Lol. New ideas are very hard to introduce when they threaten to prove our understanding wrong. It's sadly the same with all of history.
@@nubbmarr That's not how science works. It's founded on scepticism. People will attribute it to any reasonable factor, or will find another reason for a certain thing happening before they believe the claim of another scientist. This attitude is healthy for science, it helps stop the spread of ignorance and misinformation. It isn't perfect in this, but it's much better than just believing every claim you hear.
I shoot it on the right, simply because I taught myself and it was easier for me to load. Never once had a problem with shooting. The first Archers weren’t worried about tradition with left or right, they shot the bow to hunt, to survive, it never mattered to them.
Good, keep it up, don't follow the dumb train of people defending left side and saying shooting right side is wrong.
You shoot on which way is more comfortable and easier for you.
I plan to buy my own bow and training myself to shoot it aswell.
The warbow is'nt shot with a quiver, but with arrows staked in the ground.
This tells you All you need to know.
@@martinnielsen5851 Quivers where attached at the waist or leg not the back.
@@koreancowboy42 The correct side is the right side. It is called right because it is right.
I just started the video and seeing your comment and thinking about what they probably said is just absurdly boring to think about " bla bla bla this is the only way cause bla bla bla " looks like twitter for archers and that's is hell on earth
The most important thing is to have an open mind and accept that we don't, can't and won't ever know for sure. History is like having a 1000 piece jigsaw with you having between 1 and 200 pieces. With 200 pieces you can get a good idea of the picture, but little more. For me putting the arrow on the right is madness, but of course it would; I have put it on the left for 45 years. Did they do it? Who knows. Artwork supports it, it shows arrows on both sides. Of course it can be unreliable to use this as solid information, but when you see it again and again........This takes me right back to point one. Be open, don't shut others down and accept that whatever your opinion is, it can NEVER be stated as fact, not on a topic like this and Shad has an open mind.
Thanks heaps Tod and totally agree with your comment, very true. We probably will never know for sure, all I can say is that it's possible and effective, which simply means this style might have been done in medieval times, I personally think it was but I won't be stating that as an absolute fact going forward, because as you mentioned, it's simply my opinion of the past, not a definitive fact.
Cheers mate and all the best!
Well put both of you!
I have put it on the right for 35 years. Like our ancestors - provable from about eleventh century (Certainly much earlier, but i say: provable) until the time, when in middle Europe expanded big archery competitions. Not "nobody knows". Provable. Every child (More precisely: every child at the time I was a child. So more than 30 years back. I don't know anything about today's kids.) knows that when shooting from the right is to set up an arrow easier, faster and in the case of riding horse even basically only possible. Respectively - only possible if the shooter wanted to be in battle more than just target. And no one is arguing about it. No one doubts. It's just a fact... Therefore, this video and information discussed in it seems to me totally unreal! I can not wonder more, what's there to overly argue.
@@WortexCZ personally i think that holding the arrow on the right, obliges you to have the bow as vertical as possible, therefore you have to be standing (or be on a horse)! Holding it on the left, permits you to incline the bow therefore to crouch. This is more handy in forests for hunting etc etc... ( i shoot from the left, always have)
@@mortenjacobsen5673 I thought king James (it was A James right? Or was it one of the Henrys? Can never remember the timelines). Said for his troops to kill all the French knights before the battle, rather than capturing them. Maybe I'm wrong, but I seem to remember hearing that before. Additionally, from what i have seen, learning how to shoot to a standard that the majority of your shots hit a human sized target on the right side of the bow is no more difficult than learning how to shoot to that standard on the left side of the bow (which I gather is a relatively easy thing to do, if you have the upper body strength for it). Also, do you mean the arrows bounced off target dummy's (or other targets which imitate a unarmored human torso) or bounced off of some form of armor/solid target, because arrows tend to bounce off the latter when fired from the left, which could put a small hole in your argument.
I feel like a Socrates quote sums up a lot of the "critics" here.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser
Me too I don't call people 'loser', I quote Eric Trump and what did Socrates do for us anyway.
@@2adamast He gave us a cool name
@@2adamast Assuming you mean what did Socrates do other than:
Teach Plato and Aristotle, create Socratic irony and the Socratic method, lay the foundations of modern Western philosophy, and have other students that went on to continue a philosophical chain that would also teach people like Alexander the great.
So assuming you aren't including those, and several things I'm probably missing as I type this before eating, he didn't do much.
@@Hatypus All that, but this 'Socrates' quote was created just a few years back.
@@2adamast No, it wasn't invented a few years ago, like most well known quotes of Greek philosophers it has documented history.
A lot of this just comes down to the way people see the world today. “You are allowed to have an opinion, as long as it doesn’t go against their beliefs.”
I find it frightening how people have completely reverted to pure tribalism, and have completely shut themselves off from entertaining new ideas and concepts. This is a general statement that applies to almost everything now. This line of thinking if you can call it that just stifles innovation and creativity.
If you don’t give yourself room to fail, then innovation becomes an impossibility.
Jay Laforge Tribalism between people with bows? This can only end well.
Now this is a word from a very kind, thoughtful and wise person. Or at least I want to believe it be
Today?
Humanity was allways like this.
@pierre persson I'm going to need to research this intriguing concept.... hmmmm
A, FRIGGIN,MEN MAN. HOLY CRAP SO TRUE!
Hi Shad. Seems I'm late to this topic but here's what I would have to say on the matter.. I'm a native American of the Huron tribe from eastern Canada. In our folklore & traditions our clans were actually taught and encouraged to shoot both ways.. left for hunting when pin-point accuracy was needed to ensure the kill as to not waste the opportunity of a prey. But in war time, they used right side for faster notch and for horseback archery, cause weaving the arrow through was near impossible due to the motion of the horse. Now I do not personally have physical evidences (text & artworks) as our family has always kept these tradition from oral education, however I'm sure we were not the only ones. Suffice to say that both style are viable and offers pros & cons but as stated each were used to specific endeavors. Now I know it's not from medieval times and definately not of European origins but I just wanted to clarify that right side style is definately NOT impossible or unlikely.. they are just different techniques for different goals. Love your channel, keep up the interesting content ♡
Supposedly the Chieftan Geronimo boasted being able to fire 10 arrows before the first hit the ground.
Archer Lars Anderson proved this feat was possible.
That's one of the most interesting things I heard recently and it makes sense. Thank you for sharing :D
Thank you for this! I love studying history, and this is some awesome information!
I would’ve said, maybe some people know about right side shooting and others didn’t, but this makes much more sense. Right side is fast side, use it in wartimes. In almost all the art of people shooting arrows in medieval time are art pieces of war.
thank you for the output !
So, people accept the fact that swordmen used to grab the sword by the blade and bonk people with the pommel but can't stand people saying that archers might had loaded the arrow on the right side? Aight, fair enough, I guess
They had to due to the armor.
@@andrewh1113 Yeah, I know they used the pommel as a mace and sometimes even the hilt to pierce the armor or even grapple the enemies, but the fact that people saw that and went "Yeah, that seems about right" but can't accept that some people loaded arrows on the "wrong side" of the bow seems dumb as hell
@@andrewh1113 a real knight just grabs a hammer in that case lmao.
@@casthedemon The point was regular foot soldiers vs knights not knight vs knights though it most likely happened then too
It's because target shooters have their egos built up around the idea that they're the only "real" archers. That they might not be the only "real" archers or even necessarily be all that close to what was likely used in warfare at all, and that some upstart may have shown them up completely in this regard, is intolerable.
For those people who cannot detect irony, the title of this video is a MEME. But with that out of the way, okay, this is going to be epic, also LONG MAN BAD!!!!
Spicy meme
@@nilsius1 the spiciest
My Bow bigger then yours! (C) Shadiversity
We approve of this meme.
You should speak with 1.25x speed too
As somebody who has held a bow maybe 5 times in my life, this entire argument feels like a person saying people shouldn't write left handed because 90% of the world writes right handed
LOL that's kind of what I think it feels like, too. I'm sure that there are proper ways to handle certain weapons, but people are different and there may be all sorts of deviations in history. Some to accommodate personal preferences, or overcoming a handicap perhaps? Or some people are just used to doing something a particular way that feels right to them. The left/right argument just feels like the whole left handed/right handed arguments.
Technique is important when handleing any kind of instrument, ofc you can accommodate to your own personal preference but at the long run u might start destroying your body, I used to play the drums and I did it the way I considered it was better for me, till my hands and arms started hurting like hell and was forced to use the proper technique (sry for the bad grammar english is not my main language)
True that. I'm sure there are outliers too from "traditional technique" historically and did well with their weapon.
Kinda like the million ways people play/have played guitars.
Yes, it feels entirely like that. Just "Y-you cant do it that way cause i dont do it that way! Badwrongfun!"
And its Canon, you are evil in the medieval period if you do it
The "can't shoot instinctively" argument really confused me, personally.
I can't play piano instinctively, that doesn't mean it's impossible. I never took piano lessons and have never practiced. I see people trying archery the "right" way and having all the same problems with arrows falling off, string hitting their arm, and missing easy targets - because they haven't practiced archery. Trying new things is hard.
No, shooting instinctively is a style of archery, it doesn't mean picking up a bow and winging it
@Trenton use a gun then, If you're gonna cheat. Bow hunting is only fun If done with a traditional recurve
I don't know anything about archery but I listened to the whole thing. Does that mean I'm officially part of the Shad cult?
Welcome!
I've never forged my own sword, nor built my own castle, but I have read and enjoyed Shadow of the Conqueror.
@@rifftamson4394 On it. I shall find a forge first and foremost (already working on becoming a mechanic, sooo this should be doable lol)
Koven Maitreya nope... You've been in " tine" toooo long! Could not watch more than 5 minutes of this prattle n will not sit thru such drivel with anyone! He talks like a used car salesman ! I'm oooouuuttt! CCC YYYAAA!!!!!!!👍😎👍!!!
@@rifftamson4394 Funnily enough, I seem to qualify... although the book is only the e-book. And the sword is a decorative item I forged in the middle school. And the castle is in Minecraft.
But I assume those details can be overlooked, since most importantly, the castle has...
MA! CHI! CO! LATIOOONS!
In my high school gym class we had an archery module. During that module the instructor stated quite plainly, that the now should be Shot and loaded in a way that is comfortable to the wielder and he described both ways of shooting, inside and outside from both the right and left handed perspective. That was in 9th grade, 16-16 years ago.
Well which is it, 16 or 16 years ago?
@@potato-yo1dv it was supposed to say 15-16 years ago. As in 15 or 16 years ago. I'm 32 now, I was 31 when this was posted.
@@nightfall89z62 lol, I'm just teasing. I do think it is interesting that some experts understand people should do what works best, and others are very focused on a single "correct" way
I had an archery module in high school too, but the only things we were told was how to string the bow, and not to shoot each other. In his defence he was the Soccer coach, not an archery teacher.
@@nightfall89z62 That Instructor deserves a raise
From experience in other groups. Admins are often the ones with the weakest and fragile egos. If they get proven wrong they take it as a personal attack and then simply berate the person because they can't stand the idea that they've been upstarted on the very page they run
Can confirm this as fact, lol.
As a former admin in my youth, can confirm.
it's true, I felt it myself. I thought I was an expert at a certain topic. My friends told me what I was saying wasn't true, I tried to belittle them because I learned it in uni and they didn't. Then I realized that I was wrong and felt absolutelly terrible. Your ego gets so blown by your dissolusional believe in supirior education, it's crazy.
Can confirm as a "head admin". Like herding cats that treat a funny look as though you are trying to kill them. (Also the tendency to flock together when someone is "hurt" even when that person is being stupid and overly sensitive.)
This is 100% the truth.
I always shot from the right. Shooting from the left feels clumsy and not instinctive. Only got told I was doing it wrong once. My response: "You can keep telling me I'm wrong but l'll keep hitting the target."
Who would have thought archery could be so controversial 😂
Like which over dramatic anime did these people fall out of?
okay best comment, had a giggle
Gun owners: First time?
We fight over the things we value
Heck, the whole hot-blooded vs cold-blooded dinosaur debate was controversial among paleontologists back in the day and things got quite heated between paleontologists. Humanity has a knack for finding things to be passionate about and then arguing it to death with others passionate about the subject.
Tsurune.
Military And Sporting Longbows Page has been made private now by the way. Lol they really took gatekeeping to another level with this one.
It seems to have vanished altogether as of this point. I saw this video coming up on my recommendations and decided to give it another watch and decided to go and take a look, and they seem to be gone. I'm sure if this Ian Coote was in overall charge of the page and decided to close it down, or if someone else was in charge and decided to take the page down, but I get the feeling nothing of value was lost.
Showing 300,000 people that someone was wrong on a public facebook page will do that.
They do realize that they’re playing with sticks and string, right.?
This is just what is going on with all face book and twitter groups. They see ads for things that make them feel like they are brilliant and smart so they only get feed from one side. Then they see how large the base is and think yeah, we are completely true and no one can prove us wrong. Speaking to like minded people, then shows how wrong they are since they only see the beauty on one side of the fence, and never turn their heads to see the equal beauty.
What would be funny as a scenario playing out is those gatekeepers in a war getting killed by an arrowshot in a style they claimed to be impossible.
No i'm not wishing death on them just pointing out reality doesn't care for your opinions, if it works then it works regardless of your belief.
I wonder if in 1000 years, historians will be arguing over whether we used hokey sticks on the left or the right side.
Most modern hockey sticks are made of carbon fiber so it isn't going to biodegrade in 1000 years. Also, the blades are curved for left and right handed players. Though it is funny imagining somebody naively trying to shoot right handed with a lefty blade. Their shots would go way off to the side.
Trad bows without a shelf are not so obvious. They pretty much look ambidextrous. Sensei usually shoots with a shelf from the few videos I saw of his. So those bows are strictly right or left handed in their design. There are countless varieties of bow designs. Many which necessitate completely different techniques.
Hockey sticks? Eh, you got wood, aluminum and carbon and left hand, right hand, flex and curve and thats about it. But your coach is going to teach you to shoot the same as the rest of the team regardless of what you got.
And whether we shook it all about or not.
the answer would be both
@@UntiltedName took this comments way to seriously. Also, using the historical evidence of the Simpsons, hockey sticks had no curve so could be used on either side :P
did we used the left shift key or the right shift key.
This reminds me of a chad who ended an argument between two people, one was a regular at the range and the other one was a self proclaimed gun expert and they were arguing over revolvers. The "gun expert" shut down the regular every single time he mentioned that revolvers with more than 6 round cylinders existed. Chad casually asks the "gun expert" to spot for him since he wasn't "very good" with revolver iron sights and the mad lad pulls out S&W 686 ( which has a 7 round cylinder) and makes the dummy count every single ping on the steel.
what a chad
Yeah isn't there like 9 round revolvers even? I think that's on the high end but ik for sure 8 rounds was a thing for some
@@yogurtofthemultiverse2200 i've never seen one myself but they probably exist
@@yogurtofthemultiverse2200 Ruger makes 10 round revolvers, chambered in .22LR, but there's no reason that can't be scaled up to .22 Magnum. Same for 9 rounders, there might be larger than .22LR models out there. Going larger calibers usually drops the count to 8 or less.
Shadiversity: The archery community can be full of belittling, authoritative, and derogatory people.
Long time archers: First time? 😅
People building a hi-fi system who asked for advice once: That's all?
@@gronthgronth2628 You avoid all forms of social groups within hobbies due to some people in the world being assholes, doesnt that kind of self isolation just make you lonely?
@@gronthgronth2628 Sad isn't it? It's just that sort of self interested protectionism that led to the loss of the knowledge of the method to produce Damascus steel.
(Yes, yes, possible trade route and supply chain issues didn't help either, but it wouldn't have been a problem if any of the old smiths would have just written it down)
In line behind him stands the usual hema trainee laughting - Day one in HEMA training - "Ok, forget everything your lerned in your old HEMA club. We do things different here and dangerous half knowledge will only harm your progress."
Any community would be just as cruel to anyone with a differing view.
Shad: tried shooting from the right and actually can
The entire archery community: wait that's illegal
and yet you shoot from the right if you do kyudo :/
@@madhatten00 It's my understanding that the different grips used by different styles of archery effect which side is the "proper" one. Something about how the string, fingers, and shaft interact.
This pretty much sums it up. I have no idea why Nu and his whole fanbase are so triggered by this thing.
@@DimIsHigh simple answer. They are elitist. Their opinion of techniques is absolute based on their own empirical research. It's their way or the highway and they teach their pupils this too. Just like any other high level sport.
Larz Anderson destroys this
Theology debates:❌
Abortion debates:❌
Political debates:❌
Debate about wether you can shoot a bow on the right side:✅
the best part about this is that i cant shoot a bow on the left side because i can only use one eye and it is impossible to aim when the bow is on the right side for me its honestly not bad
There doesn't need to be a debate for abortion, its obvious that it's morally and ethically wrong. No debating that.
As for the arrow on left or right I always thought the arrow was shot from the right side, this is the first time I'm hearing that it's not.
@@moviemaker2011z Morality and ethics are subjective, so a bit dishonest to say there is no debate.
@@arhael3594 no, there is no debating abortions whatsoever and i can not stress that enough there isnt a moral or ethical scale to be tipped here, its murder and nothing more. i can see the possibility of the ever so rare case that the mothers body cant have the child or it will kill her but those cases are so rare its basically a non-issue, say somewhere around 1 in every 1 million abortions are actually due to this problem. the fact of the matter is that abortions are wrong. there is no sensible or justifiable means for performing it. theres a reason why most if not all doctors that perform them are ones that LOST their medical license either due to malpractice or literally people who couldnt pass the tests needed to be a doctor in the first place. dont even try to defend murder.
@@moviemaker2011z We are debating right now, so you are proven wrong as we speak by saying there is no debate.
Which would make you more sad? Stepping on a snail or stomping a kitten into a pulp?
Feeling of empathy and compassion are targeted to beings that have consciousness: ability to experience life and have feelings. Snail is a rudimentary organism solely driven by instincts.
Kitten is a much more developed being, it can have advanced feelings and experience life like we do.
Fetus before third semester is a conscienceless organism, it cannot feel or experience life, nothing matters to it, it is hardly different from a snail in terms of its ability to experience life.
You attempt to equate it to murder is quite frankly absurd and incomparable to killing a fully developed human or animal for that matter.
As of ethics, open map and find out where abortion is legal or illegal. Abortion being legal is part of ethics of every modern civil society. Only shithole countries with backward thinking and lack of human rights still have abortion legal.
You choose to value human life in any form and shape. Sure, your belief, your prerogative, you have the right for that. But it's all subjective thinking, your opinion does not have authority nor objective merit.
People will have different beliefs and that's why people will disagree with your stance.
It really annoys me when someone puts a decent chunk of effort into experimenting, uncovering, or explaining practical knowledge, and the response is the lowest effort brainlessness such as mockery, dismissiveness, and/or strawman arguments. It's happened to me several times and seeing it happen to others pisses me off as well.
It's quite common in all field of knowledge
Truth is unfortunately mere interpretation
Albrecht Durer, known for his accuracy in his drawings, and for his careful observation of the world around him, shows the arrows on the right in numerous drawings and prints. Two off the top of my head - the Four Horsemen and St Michael Fighting the Dragon. While rabbits jousting on snails may not be taken seriously (and I think the artist concerned would have been disappointed if it was - it's a visual joke), Durer's observations should be taken seriously. And if Durer were alive now I think the accuracy of his car drawings would be highly regarded.
Inspired by you I just went through a Dürer reprint catalogue and I found 5 images with archers in it. In one the archer was asleep, so no results here. In the other 4 the arrows were on the right side. The only difference here was in two images the arrow rested on top of the thumb, the same way Shad shoots, and in the other two cases the arrow rested between index and middle finger.
53:12
"When the arrow is on the right side and the arrow falls off, it's an inherent flaw in the method, not a flaw in the execution. When the arrow is on the left side and the arrow falls off, it's a flaw in the execution, not a flaw in the method."
That's some pretty dense cognitive dissonance.
Yeah talk about a double standard, sheesh.
Nu Sensei seems to have narcissistic tendencies...
Argument for shooting at the right: You have a thumb.
Seriously it may have been a huge advantage for beginner archer at the time, not having to fumble in order to keep the arrow on your knuckle...
(Also NUSensei says that the arrow can be deflected by the thumb... It's not like most modern elite archery bows had the arrow set in a crease that may or may not do the exact same as your extended thumb rather than having a smooth shaft... And those are SUPPOSED to be the most accurate!)
I just keep thinking “I loose on the right” but then I am left handed so that is my inside of the bow not the outside.
@@jonreno4389 He really does, he sounds like a prick
When the knives come out among archery folks. On an unrelated note have y’all heard of this book called shadow of the conqueror it’s really good I know it has no reason to be put here but you should read it, available on audible and online.
*[EVERYONE LIKE THAT]*
Using knives in archery is a long held tradition with plenty of evidence I have just made.
@@BlackTempleGaurdian Imagine longbowing a bayonet at someone
Clear Sky Guardian I use bows and throw knives. Maybe I should pull a jeorg and make a knife bow. Really show up those non believers
@@robertschiek8120 but would you shoot the knives from the left or right?
A brilliant and eloquent dismantling of somebody who is destroying his own credibility.
Longbowman 1: Hey dude, lets switch it up a bit.
Longbowman 2: Switch it up?
LBM1: Yeah, like, lets try sitting the arrow on the right side instead of the left.
LBM2: Woah bro, I like to live on the edge but that's just crazy.
LBM1: Yeah but like, when the enemy sees us, they'll be so stunned by this technique that they'll be too busy criticizing us to realize we've already planted arrows in their skulls.
LBM2: Lmao, you're right bro. Only idiots would think shooting it from the right side would be near impossible.
My laughter woke my boy up! Thanks
Doesn't horse archery has the arrow on the right with a thumb draw?
@@anxiousearth680 ya, but I think the thing they are arguing is when it's done with a European draw technique. Things like Mongolian Horse archery is usually done with a thumb ring so it's a different hold and release technique
It seems like you should shoot with your dominant eye or hand. I'm right handed and left eyed, so I shoot left handed.
@@dahelmang I am also left-eyed and right-handed. Makes shooting really awkward sometimes. I end up just closing my left eye because I don't have the coordination to switch hands. :P
"That car is wrong!
The steering wheel is on the wrong side!"
Bloody sodding hell... how do you raise a person to be like this?
JoeRingo118 saxophonists In high school bands
@JoeRingo118 Hey! ALL good bands have flautists. Why are you attacking Jethro Tull?!
XD
@@kolamoose8717 I personally had that experience with Trumpet players rather than Saxophone players
The car is the perfect example though. A Japanese, Australian and British person would draw the steering wheel on the "wrong" side from my perspective.
@@olesams Yeah but that's not saying that people don't use it on that side. and if say a British person was drawing lets say an american road (with cars) this would be a thing to try to get right. its like in a tv show i saw the Police officer holding his hand behind the slide of the pistol, obviously if he fired that the slide would hit his hand and probably jam. it makes you realise that the Director and actors have no clue as to what their doing with guns. if you paint a picture of an american city and everyone goes WHY ARE THE AMERICANS DRIVING ON THE LEFT you realise the Painter has no clue as to what hes doing, so this is one of the details you try to get tight. and nearly everyone who was asked to describe a car could "HELP I'VE BEEN AROUND CARS FOR YEARS AND I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MANY WHEELS THEY HAVE!"
Hey Shad! A quick note: I looked into this book, "The art of archery" and discovered a couple things. Fisrt of all, the date (1515) is not very acurate. It was printed in France by Michel Lenoir, but we don't know exactly when. What we do know though, is that Michel Lenoir was a printer from 1492 to 1520, so could well be in the end of the middle ages.
Second thing, concerning the little note "8. i.e. nock it", well that comes from the translator, H. Walrond, who did it in 1901. In the original version, it is only written "Et en la tenant par le mylieu la doit on bouter dedens son arc" (it is old french, which translate in "holding it by the middle, must put it inside his bow".
Finally, and most interestingly, the conclusion of the book is : "I did not intend to say all that there is to say concerning this pastime, but only what I have seen and known from good archers, and also the result of my own experience. I beg all who read or hear read this treatise that they will kindly correct the mistakes, if there are any, and of their courtesy supplement my ignorance."
That does not confirm nor deny any theory, but that was, I believe, worth mentionning.
Loky Tales 👏 interesting how this actually hints at the possibility of there being a variety of methods other than was written by the author. Thank you for the insight. Maybe this debate was just as heated back then as it is now 😆
I would like to add that the discrete division of historical periods is a fruit of future historians impossing ideas on the past. Time periods are a useful model through which we look at history and discuss it but the dates on which one time ends and the next one starts are ultimately arbitrary. Especially since what defines time periods is often different in different locations at different times. So, when dealing with dates as close to the transition you can't categorically say what was medieval and what wasn't, the line is a blurry one. Obviously, you could not say the 1600s is part of the medieval period based on the consensus understanding of what medieval is, but the early 1500s its really debatable.
The term "pastime" is probably the most telling of all. If he is approaching archery as a pastime, then I doubt he is talking about battlefield techniques by archers in combat.
@@stanbartsch1984 I'm quite certain that in battle you're far less concerned with seeing how everyone is drawing their bows, and more with shooting at the enemy. So the only times to really study and look at how people are conducting archery is either when learning archery, or watching others in a more relaxed setting. So referring to it as a pastime in that doesn't mean that the author only viewed it as a pastime, and was probably aware of it's war time applications. And who's to say the archers he saw weren't ever soldiers prepared for war. Medieval society is incredibly varied, and what one may call a pastime is rarely if ever just a pastime to them. For instance I can say that drawing is a pastime, but I also draw things for my profession. Likewise I'd called archery, kendo, or any martial art as a pastime, but not because it's not something that people take seriously, but more because I personally do not have to fight to live. Which is why the argument that most people wouldn't pass for good fighters in the medieval period has some truth to it. Doesn't mean that all people fit that, and in fact many would far just as well if not a bit better (due to how healthy people are is usually a really big factor).
So kinda just phrase your comment a bit differently if you're being misunderstood. Otherwise it's gonna be taken in quite a way.
@@blackguitarmaker1925 he wasn't talking about Shad he was talking about the printer of the book please reread the comment that begins this thread
I also want to add that there are many other variations of shooting. I've been banned from public ranges for my draw style as its not "safe", primarily because I draw with my draw hand wrist out, while 90% of archers draw with their draw hand wrist in. However, due to a childhood injury, it puts massive stress in my wrist to hold that much weight back, even just long enough to get to full draw, that the pain become unbearable. Until I started spinning my wrist outward. This has allowed me to work up in draw weight (starting at 25lbs, now I'm drawing 65, about to move up to an 75, as I can shoot that 65 all day without tiring), and strengthen my wrist again.
But as has been mentioned, people get stuck in a rut that "this is the correct way and any variance to this is a safety hazard and must be stopped".
The Elven Archer in Rings of Power uses that draw... there was a lot of nonsensical hate about that show, but that one was deemed to be one of the most "genuine" because no one in the history of archery would ever do that.
First time I saw him shooting like that I was straight out in the back garden with the bow, and "Holy Shit! It really does work!" I got an extra inch or so on my draw from it.
Still feels a bit weird, but it works.
Next time I go to a range I'm going to try it with a right hand rest, and see how many people lose their fucking minds.
Hi Shad, I'm from Russia, and I'm a member of historical reconstructors club (actually, only few club members are true reconstructors, most of us just having fun with swords, bows, spears etc.) Watching Your videos and how slow was our club's archers were, I decided to tell them about right side shooting. And it really helped them to grow up their shooting speed, thanks You a lot!
(Sorry for my language)
Your English is better than many native speakers.
7 months slow on that roast but your right and your English is pretty good.
you sound like a native, friend
Хороший у тебя англ, бро. Не парься. Реконструкторам привет.)
Morgulus comrade your English is very good
Lol "If the arrow falls off during a left side draw, youre doing it wrong, but if it falls off during a right side draw, then the draw has fundamental mechanical and technical issues."
Listening to NU say that was obscenely infuriating.
If anyone tells me this im gonna beat them with the bow
Meanwhile in medieval age:
Apprentice: "Should I put the arrow on left side or right side?"
Teacher: "If you can hit the target put it in you ass for what I care ."
@@buenoloco4455 i love this reply
@@buenoloco4455 _In Narrator Voice_
"And thus, the Frankish Bung-Bowman was born."
Ok, when shad said “Please don’t attack NU personally, if you have a problem with his arguments, attack his arguments” I just had to pause the video and go THANK YOU cause seriously, that’s a lesson all of us need to learn. Thank you shad for being so gracious and respectful (also I love your videos)
The thing is, if someone keeps up the same shitty behavior(misrepresenting) and doesn't change that behavior from just being pointed out to him, verbally repremanding that person should be your next step if you want them to change. Unless of course you want him to keep popping up as an issue every time you veer into their area of interest?
I just got introduced to this concept due to a friend. I fire from either side of my bow. However, I should note going into this that I'm blind in my left eye. This will become relevant, possibly, in a moment.
I was discussing this with a friend. I have a home made pvc bow and a hand carved long bow. The second wasn't made by me. A friend of mine that I used to go out hunting with enjoys bow fishing so we often get on the topic of bows and various connotations with them. They have seen me notch and would often point out that I notch my arrows funny. This isn't an entirely self taught art for me and I'd explain that it was the way my grandfather showed me. He would notch "Right" if he knew his first shot was off and felt the need for a second, quicker shot. I tend to notch based on the position of my bow at rest. If I'm still holding it upright I notch Right. If it's held relaxed and down across the body I notch left. I'm sure there are proper terms for this. I never bothered. However when showing him my home made bow he commented on it. We talked and he mentioned that there was strife in the community of whether to notch left or right. I simply asked for clarification on this and got the reply that "People assert that notching to the right is wrong." I pointed out that when resting the arrow to the right I use my thumb to keep it in place by lightly elevating it. That I didn't know what to tell him. It worked because it worked. We got on the topic of depth perception possibly being a factor due to being blind in my left eye. I told him I couldn't honestly validate or dissuade him on that. After all, I've always been blind in one eye. So can't really make an argument based on two eyes. I tend to see the world how I see it. I manage just fine from my perspective. But he wanted to test. So we spent a bit over Skype shooting. Lots of immobile targets which, for me, are a lot harder to hit than a moving one. But it was this philosophy and line of questioning that brought this to my attention. I'm genuinely surprised this is an issue. " You shoot how you shoot" is what I was taught. Then again grandfather can fire a long bow from his back. He braces it with his feet, grips with both hands on the string, then notches an arrow and let's fly. Usually using his legs to elevate the bow. To me it's an interesting trick but it works. This argument made me ponder the philosophy of "If it works, is it stupid?" I can't fire with my freaking feet. First time I'd ever seen something like that. And sadly the old man is now dearly departed so I can't ponder further with him on it but I do know he considered it showing off. Nothing more. His view was "Make sure you can use a skill you develop." So to me it's rather silly to say you can't do something that people do all the time. Sure, being blind in one eye might have some influence on this. But if not, then why is this such an issue?
Using NU’s “Logic”: Shad had an injury from Archery... Jack got an injury from Archery... I, myself, NEVER got an injury from a bow because I don’t do Archery....
Therefore, not doing Archery is the BEST Technique! 🤔
genious coment ^^lmao^^
The archery community is filled with circle jerking elitist pricks when I checked them out. Makes me wanna puke. You can't have any type of discussion with them even if you disagree by a lil bit.
playerdude2 I know! I found that out the hard way! 😫
Ever since I was a kid, I’ve ALWAYS wanted to get into Archery. I was EXTREMELY FASCINATED with it. Especially with its use in various cultures. Unfortunately, I never had the opportunity to do any archery until adulthood.
However, after meeting a few “Experts” from the Arching “Community”, I was so turned off because of their Elitism and how they would belittle you if you don’t ALREADY know EVERYTHING or do Archery THEIR way!
Also, I found it funny how Nu wants to use something he knows nothing about (like Martial Arts) to support his argument for why HIS arrow placement IS the “Correct” way. I couldn’t facepalm hard enough!
Well, NU, I do practice several different Martial Arts, and I can tell you, sometimes we DO straight punches the way you demonstrated! So again, by YOUR “logic”, Shad’s placement of his arrow is just as CORRECT as yours!
@@playerdude2 To be fair, though, basically every sufficiently niche interest community is filled with elitist gatekeepers.
@@LukeSykpeMan But to be fair, most of the Community in this World even though had an Elitist in it, it doesn't mean that they were led by it.
Having a Community that was led by an Elitist is just Bad.
"don't treat archery like religion" -Armin Hirmer, regarding to people who insists that arrows should only be placed on the left side of the bow while doing mediterranean draw style.
4:44 the solution for that is khatra
it works. it's not impossible. end of story. I won't even watch the whole video. I've already proven to myself that it works. even without practice for this specific style, and haven't shot a bow for a whole year, I can do it normally without problems. this whole drama is just (sorry for the term) pathetic, honestly. it's just annoying how close-minded people can be. this literally isn't religion for fries sakes.
Religion shouldn’t be treasured like this either I. May be Christian I don’t get why we can’t all accept one another holy cow it urks me yes I want more people to believe in God but won’t force anyone and tell them they are going to hell Cause one that is rude two that is uncalled for like 9/10 times three God said to look the other way in the ORIGINAL Bible before it was changed by a king for his own goals and in thst Bible woman did a lot of great things to but in the “modified” version woman we’re degraded and people sue that version as proof that Christianity is hateful and other hateful lies
@@wrathfulcoma4357 I only used a quote from Mr. Armin, and not really talking about religion tho o3o
and yeah, don't change the topic, please.
@@mortenjacobsen5673 literally none of your comments make sense linguistically :v what are you even saying here?
This why I hate school and religion. religion won't allow the school to let kids learn evolution and school won't allow Magic the gathering when it free time because it has religious figure **FUCK THEM!**
can't believe anyone argues about this, if you can shoot you can shoot , I've seen strange styles work fine for different people I knew a fellow who used his bow right hand draw/rest he managed to get lots of deer somehow
Shad has a back scabbard that works, is hated for being a more skilled warrior than most and FREQUENTLY does what others see as impossible...Shad are you a Witcher?
If I remember correctly, Shad said he lives in Australia, which would mean, he lives in one of the few places you can stumble upon Dragons today.
Hell, he lives probably in the only place on modern day earth, where "every living creature wants to kill you" (including plant life, since I think the Ghumpighumpi tree grows there), which seems to align with the (honestly very little) knowledge I have of the world of the Witcher.
But with his injuries and such I dare to say, he's either undercover or he isn't a full fletched Witcher yet.
@@derskalde4973
He's gone through the initial training but hasn't been given the Sign power yet.
I saw your like count and decided I couldn't ruin it.
@@clayxros576 Shad: Undergoes the Witcher Trial of the Grasses
Internet: "wAiT tHaTs IlLeGaL"
@@derskalde4973 australias pretty chill man, no wolves or bears, just brown snakes im scared of
I love how a large point Shad makes is basically "Skill issue"
I shoot a bow and I literally can’t stand the elitist archery community. They are like spandex wearing cyclists but worse because they think they have some esoteric knowledge to shame you with.
Some maybe are like that. But in most activities some techniques have become the accepted norm because experience has shown that they are the most likely to work well, why should archery be any different?
Don't get me started on cyclists
This applies to every "elitist" community though. I was just watching a video by Matt Easton Scholagladiatoria about whether or not "elitists" in HEMA were ruining the sport. Of course they do. Pompous Sh*ts ruin everything!
@@wookiewaffles1503 oh mate, same here.
As a longbow archer from the UK who started in 1981, the arrow goes traditionaly over the hand, not the thumb. I do not use right or left as I am a left handed archer. However, shoot how you like, if it is safe and accurate.
"You can't shoot on the outside" is this decade's version of "Japanese steel can cut through tanks"
You know. Funny thing is I've never seen someone unironically attribute unrealistic magical properties to katanas.
I only ever see people complaining about all those katana fanboys I've never seen...
@@squirrelknight9768 I actually have met someone that genuinely believed in the superiority of the katana as a weapon in general. Like, this dude genuinely and deeply held the belief that in a one on one fight between a samurai and someone manning an MG42 the samurai would win. He was . . . odd, to say the least.
@@kaijupants9095 please tell me you're making this up? lmao
@@dark_khan2232 Wish I could man, but reality is a cruel mistress.
1000 years from now people will unearth some usb and find anime depicting legendary battles of a man and his sword and people will think that’s how it was smh
people normally: an hour and 20 minute video? man idk.
people in quarantine: QUEUE THAT BAD BOY UP
Longmen normally: only an hour and twenty minute video?
Longmen during lockdown: *ONLY AN HOUR AND TWENTY MINUTE VIDEO?!*
@@dreyn7780 thefuckyouonaboot?
@@dreyn7780 M8. I think it was a joke? Also, CAPS LOCK is apparently DIFFICULT to turn OFF. XD I'm just teasing, don't worry, but seriously, maybe if youth is wasted on the young go find another audience to banter with. Best of luck!
I'm glad to see another T C in the chat
@@sirrabbitthered8496 Hahaha. Clever. XD
I didn't even knew putting arrow on the right side was "bad".
I just kept doing my thing since it worked, and I was hitting the targets.
Shad *gets angry, loses his composure and starts saying mate*
Me: oh yeah i forgot he was australian
When he said Bonnet in reference to the car part as well.
He also said damn.
Aussies can tell the aggressive mate.
@HYSTERIA MCR Depending on where in the UK you're from "love" can also be used in the same way. Especially if it's a woman talking to another woman xD
I prefer mate for my passive-aggressiveness.
We also say car-bonnet :)
Dude draw with jazza is his brother lmao
Ian Coote : "As I've said before, I'm not in the slightest bit interested in your opinion of me or what you think of archery."
Also Ian Coote : Comments on everything Shad posts with sentences that obviously shows his pride and ego is being attacked.
That guy was an ass. I hate mods that act that way. They get a tiny amount of power and then their ego gets the better of them. He made himself look bad.
Ian Coote: Keep it clean *insert derogatory name calling here*.
Ian Coote is a piece of work. Gatekeeping is just wrong. Even worse when the gatekeeper is hypocritical, and suffering the world’s worst case of self serving denial.
Peeps like Ian Cote don't deserve such admins power. I've met acouple people like those and whenever they don't admit to being wrong and crap. I just legit make an essay of how many times their wrong and how they been proven wrong. I event shown pictures from.beginning to end of the argument and conversation to make it a fact. He couldn't say anything except "are you an admin? No? Good"
Like bruh some people don't know when to chill the fuck out and no one gives two shits about pride and ego. Which is why I say owners or modders are stupid at times and shouldn't live if they act like that
Is it just me seeing the similarity between this recently suggested and proven hypothisis and when the first discoveries of dinosaurs where put forth. Scientists actual SCIENTISTS were insulting eachother openly in journals and in proffesional circles.
Closed communities really dont like being challenged from newcomers.
They still does every now and then across multiples field of studies
@@donflamingo795 wich goes completely against the tenets of the scientific method and really shows how important it is that people incorporate them by heart into their thinking process
Scientists actually disagree about theories quite often. Being the son of a scientist I heard about this group or that person's theories potentially being wrong due to this or that. My father liked to challenge established theories and the elite on a regular bases. Go Dad.
You are very right sir. This disagreement is just like those arguments.
@@bigernbladesmith yeah the problem is not the disagreements in fact is very healthy to challenge the accepted views. the problem is that often people dont take those desagreements in a rational way and end up insulting or misrepresenting the others arguments.
the world would be a better place if people were more humble about their limitations.
Well, that's because Richard Owen was a right tit.
When I was little I saved up for a recurve bow. I went to the archery shop and the owner was super nice and helpful. He helped me find a bow I liked and he let me shoot a few arrows from each bow until I found one I like. The first time I drew the bow I drew with the arrow on the right. The man immediately told me i was wrong and the arrow needed to be on the left side. I just looked up at him and asked why. The look he gave me can be easily summed as, you gotta a point kid proceed.
Shad Fact: Shad participated in a disc throwing tournament, so far three four forests, two cities, and one mountain have been destroyed. His second throw should cinch the compition.
He's gotta stop using pummel instead of discs.
*ArMsTrEnGtH*
This seems like a topic to further *discus*
Still waiting on the insurance check. Shad do me a favor, throw it in the opposite direction this time please.
Pommel throwing tournament lmao
Shad, I would argue that in modern stationary target shooting, people aren't even shooting on the "left" side of the bow, that's how they get the arrow on the rest, but compound bows are designed so that the arrow is in the middle of the riser completely in line with the string, therefore that argument for the left side being better for accuracy I don't think holds up in modern competition shooting
Compound bow...
So you have chosen death.
@@Mike23443 tell me about it, if he's going to have a centre shot could atleast make it a modern recurve or flat bow.
also fun fact modern archery styles were developed in the victorian era and were developed from the french style of archery, which is very different from the british style. the difference was best captured in a medieval manuscript (can't remember which one off the top of my head) where the author was describing the difference between french and british archers saying how the french would "draw the string back" while the british would "bend the bow by leaning into it" which when you try it actually makes sense as it makes it a lot easier to shoot a heavy bow by pushing it forward rather than pulling back on the string
we're talking heavy long bows medieval
You mentioning 'rest' made me realize too, while having an arrow nocked but not cocked (using it just because it rhymes ^^), and having the arm down and waiting for Your turn to shoot, it's more comfortable to have the arrow on the left. So I'd say in a medieval battle scenario, while waiting for the enemy to close in and for the command, many would've had their arrow on the left, but put the following arrows on the right for more speed, less fumbling and space needed and better draws. And I guess the first shot's also more a calibration shot than the following.
@@crwydryny I actually found that combining the actions of pushing and pulling makes for a faster draw.
Do shots land on target.
Yes: keep doing it
No: Try something else.
Or,
No: Keep trying it, might just need practice.
Bare in mind that some targets are thousands of cubic feet worth of infantry.
@@eewweeppkk Also that.
yes keep doing it
@@eewweeppkk That works when you have a bunch of fellow archers, but you should probably still learn how to aim at the individual infantry because there is a lot of areas where even when aiming at a crowd an arrow has a good chance to get caught on armor, shields, other equipment or even bodyparts that aren't going to take someone out from a battle.
Edit: Ideally, every archer in an army should be able to have pinpoint accuracy and be able to take targets individually.
The fact that I didn't know anything about archery prior to watching this video, and yet I watched the whole thing, is a testament to how entertaining and knowledgable you are. That, and your style of being mature, gracious, and logical. You can take that as high praise.
NUSensei really has the issue that speaks in definitives whilst also saying "he's not an expert". He says he has no vendetta but he's still so passive aggressive and disregards everything that shows any evidence that goes against what he's stating. Especially his recent video about it, one...ONE person injured themselves trying this as "proof" that this method is dangerous...but he also casually ignores the fact that this person tried to use a 170 pound bow on a draw menthod they had never practised and can only ("only") normally shoot 140 with the technique they know
He most certainly was not "causually ignoring" it. Nor using that as proof that the method is dangerous.
He warned to "get too far too soon" which is directly refereing that - using too strong bows that are people not used to with this technique. In that video he also had part where Historical Archery channel (the one injured) explaining it exactly what you are pointing out.
And diasagreement or different view on facts is not passive aggresion.
Both have valid points. All win and lose in this discussion tbh. Problem is that both view the topic in too fixed POV.
Does he have cognitive dissonance or is he consciously doing this? Or both. Idk anymore
Mm, he tends to contradict himself, by light observation.
I say, write a script to avoid this.
I get where NU is coming from, he might even have started "the wrong way" and gotten abrased for it, but either way, he was taught that the left side "in" was the ONLY way, from people he relied on were correct, but now that part has been proven incorrect, so his idols, his information, may have been not only wrong, but even outright lying.
This is tough to take.
I have over the years hit several similar revelations, they really make you wonder about what you've been taught vs logic.
I see through the lies of the critics, I do not fear the opposite side of the bow as you do!
Master Skywalker.
Lend us your wisdom.
Will there ever be Good Star Wars movies in the future?
@@jacket6213 Probably not tbh
@@jacket6213 maybe a decade or two after Disney let it drop.
So about 2350
Wrong Skywalker
@ALSO-RAN ! Cant tell if this is satire or not
I just watched 80 minutes video about shooting arrow from left or right side of the bow when I've never done archery in my life.
Same
Same. Except literally once with a cheap bow at the Renaissance festival.
I shot bows a few times going to all white church with me being mixed me and my bro and one black guy but besides indoctrination was fun . it don't surprise me people levels of ignorance knows no bounds.
I just joined the club. 😀
...I didn't even notice it was 80 minutes. 😳
Hello Shad, it's been 2yrs. since i saw this video of yours for the first time. I had to watch it again just for the humor and passion you put into it. Like you i get in a twist when someone acts like a authority when they're completely off the mark.
This bit gave me a chuckle, because there's so much more of this guys ridiculous self righteous attitude today in every category.
I hope you well. Looking forward to your next video
“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” - George R. R. Martin
I've heard it said differently but never with a name attached so you might be more accurate
@@RowbotMaster It could be miss-attributed, I just did a quick search because I didn't want to use a direct quote without siting
@@Duranous. it's a quote G. R. R. Martin used in his books, but he isn't it's orgin.
Me before the video: "Bit of an exaggerated title there, DESTROYING huh"
Me after the video: "It was not exaggerated"
@@mortenjacobsen5673
Are you one of the reddit guys?
@@mortenjacobsen5673
Shad went over each point individually and discussed why each point was incorrect or a lie.
Either you don't know what logic means or you're just trolling.
And I would assume you only watched the first but of the video seeing as only in the first bit going over how we got to this point was "debate decorum" mentioned. Everything past that is, well, logic and evidence.
He's passionate and annoyed so that somehow discredits everything he says is idiotic at best.
People can be angry and correct just as they can be angry and wrong.
@@mortenjacobsen5673
You need a hypothesis to explain how shooting a bow works....
He never claimed sport injuries don't exist. 0_o
That's you making a strawman at best.
Being sore is not an injury.
Nor did Shad claim you couldn't get injured. Same as with drawing on the left side, there's a potential for injury, as he said. Which you are lying about him saying otherwise.
He said when he shoots a bow AT ALL he takes 2-3 days rest in-between.
Not that shooting on the right was somehow more exhausting.
And even if it was, he's using some different muscles that haven't been trained as much for this particular activity. And once they're trained up like the rest, there won't be any difference in ability and recovery times.
If you used your left arm for absolutely everything for a few years, then suddenly started using your right arm, it's going to take a little while for your right arm to get up to the same level as your left arm. And in that process you'd have to rest it for longer periods to start with.
But that entirely irrelevant here as he said he always rests for those 2-3 days between now practice.
But what else will you take out of context and strawman?
@@mortenjacobsen5673
More strawmaning and lies.
The argument of "changing sides negatively affected arm alignment" is bullcrap.
Bloody hell there's no point talking to you.
@@mortenjacobsen5673
"One cna only have or voice an opinion if You Morten, recognize them as such (aka, they agree with you) if they are an expert in said field."
Got it.
"I can't shoot an arrow from the right when using a technique made for shooting it from the left"-type of arguments are just great.
Yeah, I can't drive a British car from the left front seat because I can't reach the pedals. But that doesn't mean that British people cannot drive cars. It just means that I refuse to get into the actual driver's seat because I'm adamant that the only proper seat for the driver is the front left one, actual pedal placement be damned.
Exactly. it only proves, that the British can't built cars properly :P
Honestly, your point is perfectly made.
When someone wants something to fail, then it will. Since this can even happen uncontiously, this means we are our own worst enemy in data gathering. That's what the scientific method is for. I'm not sure if we ever get a good study about this topic, but it would be nice to have.
@@Gnarlf then again, most mail delivery cars in right side traffic countries are imported from left side traffic countries as that's the cheapest way to allow the mail courrier to access the mail boxes at the curb without leaving the car :P
@@SonsOfLorgar Wow interesting to know. i had no idea. I guess ours are to far away from the curb, mostly at the walls of the buildings, so that wouldn't work here. our mail service built their cars "themself", beacause it was the cheapest way to get them all/mostly electric and with their specifications.
The original interpretation, I think, was that the mediterranean draw was by nature a technique made and only suited for shooting from the left. However, this interpretation has been pretty much disproven
@@Gnarlf Nah, it's just because if you drive on the left side of the road, you get a better view if the driver's side is switched. I know a lady who took her British car to Paris, where they drive the opposite side. She said there were times when she was in busy traffic and her visibility was reduced and it was scary.
Our infrastructure is built according to us driving on the left, to change now would cause chaos and cost the taxpayer stupid amounts of money. For what purpose? We're an island, pretty much, it's not like she share a land boarder with a country who drives on the opposite side of the road, and there is this awkward bottleneck on the boarder. So, I guess the UK will probably stay that way. Until the plague gets us that is :/
My dad had a bow and arrows 🏹 when I was growing up and I often practiced with it in the ash down forest in Sussex. We practiced on the right side. It’s easier to quickly mount the arrow on the right. You notch it onto the string, hold it in place, lift, aim, pull, and release. Easy.
I can’t believe this is a thing to debate.
"Tradition encourages dogma"
A-frickin-men, Shad. As an avid martial artist I love watching those videos, also I chuckled when Nu said you dont punch in a vertical fashion, and immediately you brought up Bruce Lee
I only took one month of martial and one of the first movement they thaught me was a counter attack to the ribs after deflecting a punch by punching in a vertical fashion
Bruce Lee: Probably one of the earliest proponents of modern competitive 'mixed martial arts' with his Jeet Kune Do, the form without form.
Even funnier: Lee got that punching style from Jack Dempsey's famous book on boxing as self-defense, where he argues (very convincingly and adding diagrams) that punching with a vertical fist _improves_ your alignment and mades your structure stronger (line of power), particularly if you're not using gloves. It makes also easier to keep your elbow from flaring out. This page expands on the idea, adding Dempsey's original diagram and an example from art Greek: revgearsports.com/vertical-straight-punch/
“Shooting on the right side is impossible and stupid”
Left handed archers: 👀
Kyudo (Bishu Chikurin Ha) archers also raise an eye. Then go back to meditating till everything is settled again.
That's a really bad argument. Left handed archers hold the bow with their right hand and span the string with their left.
@@Malamockq your argument is bad too. Left handed archers hold bow with a hand which is opposite to their primary eye. Also, there is no correlation between handedness and hand strength. I'm left handed, but my right side is stronger and I can't aim with a weapon on the left aiming line (don't know how to call it).
@@wonniethepoop7856 No they don't. They hold the bow as I described. Strawman fallacy, I never said there was any such correlation. You're an idiot.
I'm right handed _AND_ blind in my right eye. _EVERYONE_ hates the way I shoot.
"Attack the argument, not the person" some of the best advice I've ever heard
Actually that is the first sentence you need to know in debating, especially if it is in politics, science, etc.. Other like culture, historical may be some what a little bias here and there.
It's like the age old advice of being kind to people and brutal to institutions. You can just replace institution with argument in this case.
Two other great ones are to "Accept your losses" and "Know when to leave. Not everyone is going to accept their losses". Saves you a lot of time and effort on the long-run, and keeps you away from frustration or helps you deal with it when it does happen.
That almost no higher-ups do.
I got taught that lesson in 9th grade.
Oh yeah, School doesnt teach kids shit anymore. Whoops
I did archery for quite some years now. Im still learning new stuff. And i love to try out new techniques. I shoot on the left side, because i have learned it that way. I would even do that in combat that way, and in close combat (10m and below), use a sword. But i also say, that if other people do it different, and it works ... that is pretty cool. And i see no reason, why people in the middle ages wouldn't have put the arrow on the right side. I think both ways to shoot are valid. If you need high accuracy, for example because the enemy is 50m away, you use the left side (if its more accurate). If he is closer, you use the right side. Just do it the way, wich suits the situation best. There is not THAT ONE WAY to shoot. In the german military for example, the sniper instrucors have a saying: "the success prooves the shooter right."
Conclusion: as long as you hit your target reliably, you do it the right way.
Good video btw.
This kinda reminds me of when I was teaching my buddy's wife to shoot. She was right handed but left eye dominant. A "professional" shooting instructor had previously forced her to use her right eye and her accuracy and confidence suffered as a result. Got her using the left again and the improvement was dramatic. Remember the rule of, "what works, wins."
It always annoys me too when the shooting "Elitists" show up. First thing they teach you about marksmanship in the military: "Assume a comfortable firing position." Doing it however is more comfortable for you that doesn't impede on your breathing or accuracy is far more important than having a "perfect" form, because perfect is a generalization.
@@trekadouble757 Ditto on the mixed dominance.
I never had any formal archery teaching, so I had to teach myself everything through pure experimentation. While it has been many long years since I even picked up a bow... when I think back on this part of my youth, I don't recall ever having crossed the arrow to the inside. I don't think it ever occurred to me to place the arrow on the inside of the bow. It's just far more intuitive to shoot from the outside.
Just like me. I'm right handed, ambidextrous eye dominant. I use which eye works best for the particular scenario at hand and my accuracy is just fine.
"What works, wins"...hmm...how to disprove that...
Oh, I know! Plagiarism! Rote memorisation instead of learning! They can both "work", but do they "win"? Nope!
What if you don't get caught?
From an outsider's perspective, this is the weirdest thing to argue over. Imagine people claiming it was LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to hold a spoon with two fingers and a thumb instead of holding a spoon in your fist.
Well I suppose it's not all that strange. Throughout history people have aggressively opposed changes to any number of things with unnecessarily strong pushback, and there's no use pretending we're so much more enlightened than our ancestors.
nah, i think this argument is closer to the which hand do you hold your knife and fork argument, who cares if it's comfortable to you and doesn't harm anyone else, unless intended
It's IMPOSSIBLE to hold chopsticks! It can't be done! Believe me, I'm an "Expert"!
@@MrTrilbe my neighbor was left handed as a kid... his father forced him to use his right hand for god knows what reason... guy was from Lebenan so take your guess
UA-cam in 3020: "the people of the 20th century DID have the toilet paper with the tear on the outside! There are several written examples and treatises that support this! The artists who depict it hanging with the tear towards the walls were perhaps not personally familiar with its use and traditions. Similar to how you might operate the zero-point-powered dimensional teleporter to get to work. But perhaps not understand the quantum mechanics to explain it.
In addition, tearing the toiletpaper when it is hanging toward the wall increases tear and unnecessary strain on the knuckles of the left hand when taking paper for use."
Like when people were anti-left handers.
That Ian Coote fellow is really annoying and obnoxious. I've met a lot of people like him and they are quite prevalent among the software engineers, where each approach to doing stuff (be it OOP or functional, or whatever) is basically a religion. So I admire your self control, honestly, I don't think I would be able to be so chill.
Nerthym really hit the spot. I had a lecturer who gave me a fail for a code I wrote. My code worked, no bugs, shorter than his own code and use less processing cycles.... yet I was wrong 😂😂
@@viduranimalarathne8797 the logic of "you found a more eficeient solution, therefore you are WRONG" is EVERYWHERE sadly
We lost so many good people in the last Crusade against Agile.
ETA: It's a joke people, it's a joke.
In college right now for software development, many of the students with prior experience and professors alike are these self-proclaimed intellectuals, that like to talk down to everyone. I can't stand it, it gets so annoying.
@@jacobwbruce finished college (art) a little while ago same thing people RAPIDLY gain ego
Id also like to add, while as a literal newborn archer I have found Nu's videos very helpful, when it comes to medieval history, im definitely siding with you shad, being a longterm viewer of your content.
So you were born about a year ago?! Your English is fantastic!
I am a big fan of Nu as well and see where he is coming from in some of his arguments. He really cares about archery and helping people.
When my parents thought me how to shoot a bow they told me to shoot it from the right side. That was the traditional way to shoot as this is also the only way to pull the string all the way to the ear and the string won't interfere with your body. I'm slavic, a Bulgarian and this makes sense to me. We were horses archers back in the days and shooting from the left on a horse back means you'll never be able to pull the bow string to a full length.
That's an interesting perspective.
Good input. Also, good luck nocking on the left side while riding a horse.
I'm Welsh . I've always been told to draw with the arrow on the right side , using my thumb as a guide like a snooker cue.
How does this affect the control over the arrow and keeping it from swinging to the outside while riding?
@@wernerviehhauser94 for one thing it's easier to place the arrow in position and your draw to release time shouldn't be that long while riding no handed . 😀
-Here are my historic sources.
-Sir, these are from yesterday.
-Yesterday is history.
...tomorrow is a mystery,
today is a gift, that's why it's called the present,...
My thought exactly lol
Man the battle between left and right Twix got intense
In 1995, I was 10 years old and was a Boy Scout - we learned archery and it was 100% on the right side of the bow (or left for a left handed shooter). My mind is blown this is even a debate.
When i learned, the fibreglass (or something cheap like that) bows we were taught on only had the plastic arrow rests on one side... left for right shooters, and right for left shooters, so i learned to shoot with it on the left, but since i heard about the "debate" i tried a bit of shooting from the right just using my extended thumb as a rest, instead of my knuckle (on my practice barebow... my recurve is set up for shooting from the left side only since it's not ambidextrous). Didn't really take much practice to get used to it. The biggest difference was just having to try and adjust my aim point hugely since now it was going off the right side instead of the left, and since it's a cheap practice bow i used to use as a teen in our woods, with my regular arrows, they're not balanced for it even remotely, so huge archer's paradox issues. But even with all that, it doesn't take long to adapt, and with a properly balanced bow and arrows i assume you'd probably be able to shoot it from either side reliably and consistently, if you had a good aim point.
You learnt wrong then. It works on both sides of the bow equally
When you work for many years to master your craft, it’s hard to accept that something you have been doing could possibly be wrong. People don’t like to question themselves or the “masters” that taught them.
Martial Arts student: "Why, oh great martial arts grandmaster who taught the master of my master's master, should I tie my belt with three loops around my waist when it's too short and restricts my movement?"
Great Martial Arts Master: "I don't know! The only reason I did three loops is because I'm short and I'd trip on my belt if I didn't!"
It's not even being wrong. It's just that some people couldn't believe that it could be done successfully in other ways.
@@OmegaF77
Very true
That is absolutely why mcdojos and "fake" martial arts are a thing. What used to be effective learning tools are now taught as actual practical techniques because the game of telephone through generations loses the nuance of usefulness vs tradition. "This technique can't be bad in combat because I practiced it 1000 times to get the muscle memory correct. My style can't be suboptimal because part (or all) of my identity is this martial art so of it's wrong, I've wasted my life."
They're wrong that they wasted their life of course, but the same thing is true about die hard Reagan or Obama supporters. Blinded to objective truth because you've placed too much of your own self worth in the value of this thing outside yourself.
A true "master" knows that there is no such thing. You get better as time goes on through learning different and opposing styles, techniques, and movements and incorporating elements of them into your own. An easy example would be the creation of MMA through the fusion of several martial arts creating a style with actual, unchoreographed combat in mind. (note I'm not saying martial arts are bullshit, I practiced karate for years, I'm simply pointing out that most styles of fighting are built to counter that very same style. It's that exact reason that I incorporate everything from boxing to straight out brawling in my personal style.)
Let’s be clear here for everyone watching. All of these people are not “bad” people. They’ve been doing archery for a long time and are conservative when it comes to new techniques(not really new) that are counter to what they’ve been taught. It’s Pride in their knowledge that sets them against what Shad is doing. It’s up to us to use logic and evidence to prove to these people that what they know about shooting on the right side is completely false and to disprove their Pride based assumptions.
I don't know dude, seems to me like one's head need to be stuck rather deep within their own digestive tract to be so vitriolic over something as trivial.
You know what this remind me of? Elitist in any arts. For example classical musician will look down on jazz musician and in turn jazz musician will look down on rock musician. It just go down the line from claasical to pop music.
Everyone will argue their style is correct while the one that actually experiment with all the styles will learn the most.
Purist/Elitist are pretty annoying people. And Shad is the experiment type of person which i respect. Shad channel is to look into historic weapons and what could be or had been.
Nu Sensei and the likes are perfecting their own form of archery. Like different purpose in their channel. I don't even know why he need to act like an authority on historic archery when he didn't have a firm grasp on history of archery. His channel isnt even about history.
I'd just tell them that they're pronouncing gif wrong. I mean, that's about what the argument's level of importance boils down to
Well then I really hope the Instant Legolas that Joerg made becomes popular. Even the basic version will allow someone who never touch a bow before to launch a bolt on first try.
Just imagine the gatekeepers scream. Wonder if someone would make a 3D printed version...
Seems they took an arrow in the knee0
The thing about NUSensei that I find weird is that he needs to constantly say bow attachments don't make anything easier for the shooter, they just 'make nearly impossible shots possible' as if that's not the same thing. He needs to make sure everyone knows he's not using 'training wheels' or something.
If they don't do anything, why were they invented and in use?
Adding a counter-balance? No, doesn't make the shot easier because "I still have to bring the bow on target and execute the shot." Yeah and the bow is balanced now so it's literally taking weight off your wrist. Sounds easier to me.
Adding a sight? No, that doesn't make the shot easier ether because he 'still has to aim' or some shit.
Adding a clicker to know when you're at full-draw? No, doesn't make it easier because I still have to pull the string back to there.
The guy is really good at archery but the second he opens his mouth he comes across as an idiot. There's no shame in using bow attachments until you are actively arguing that they don't make shooting easier. Why are you using them then?
He even said, "Your car has power steering, but you still have to drive it." Yeah, and when my power steering goes out, know what I realize? How much more difficult driving my car has become...
well everyone has access to the same aids. whether they make it easier or not depends on your position in the field in terms of ability. aids reduce the skill gap of the field. if you're the worst guy there then aids are fantastic. if you're the tiger woods of archery then it makes your life much more difficult.
which makes for a better sporting event? i guess it depends if you want to see the best rise to the top or whoever randomly gets hot that week.
@@jrs4516 Accessories are making shooting more consistent. They are not making the competition easier. The point with accessories is that it removes the uncertainty that comes from the equipment. No matter how good archer you are, a 70m competition with a self bow would be like throwing dice. It would be impossible to judge the difference between two equally skilled archer. In this sense NUSensei is correct. to compete with an Olympic bow he has to practice equally hard than to compete with a traditional bow.
He is however wrong when saying that it is not easier to shoot the Olympic bow. For the same person, on the same target from the same distance one has to practice less with an Olympic bow to achieve the same score.
I don't know anything about archery but have watched some of Nu's videos. What he's saying about the bow attachments is that they don't do everything for you. They don't aim for you, they don't loose the arrow for you so you still have to practice. The reason why he's saying all those things is because he has come across people wanting to learn archery thinking the attatchments do all the work.
I mean, that's like saying "scopes on sniper rifles don't make anything easier" because they're just making super long distance shots possible, or "red dots on rifles don't make anything easier" because you still have to aim your gun to land a hit. Yeah, but it's easier to do so and therefore generally faster.
@@adam-k That literally translates to "easier"
It's crazy that I watched 1 hour of this video even though i don't even like archery that much.
When people say that the string hit you arm with that technique, what do they think arm guards are for?
They increase your dexterity or strength stat and give 5+ to fire resistance.
Any noob needs an arm guard, no matter the draw style.
@@szarekhthesilent2047 Of course. What was I thinking?
@@kylethomas9130 They're also used by people with some skill.
@@hueyiroquois3839 of course, ideally we would never graze our arm/sleeve/bracers with the bow string. Not good for the string, not good for our aim. But Murphy's law is applicable to most scenarios if not all.
Paul Harrell:
How to spot a fake expert, rule number 1: Someone who loves to say "There is no such thing as..."
I am so glad Paul and Shad both know how to quickly and efficiently clap back.
I don't remember who said this, but I've always remembered it: If a scientist tells you that something is possible, he's probably right. If a scientist tells you that something is impossible, he's probably wrong.
It’s impossible to win The Game unless you never heard of The Game
@@tsumikiayato1560 You... You sneaky boi...
Very appropriate quote from a good channel.
"Because the string is gonna hit your arm" is the funniest argument.
Leather gauntlets and other wrappings for the arm exist and have existed (i assume) for as long as the bow has
It's still bad form for the string to constantly impact your arm as it throws off the accuracy of your shot.
Most eastern archers avoid this by doing a slight twist in the wrist so that way when they shoot and loose their arrows.
Check out this movie called War of Arrows a good one to check out how they used recurve bows and shooting the right side of the bow without issue of string slapping the arm and without the arrow falling off the right side.
Don't give me the excuse "oh because it's a different bow!" No no.
It's like saying "hey that's a different gun so it should be used in this kind of way"
Edit: and also the fact people like Ian Cote are delusional admin/modder is outstanding how dumb people are when they can't accept their wrong. Nah they hang too much to their ego and pride.
Because the greatest concern when you are trying to use an item meant to kill is the string damaging your arm. Is not like in the context the bow is made to deal with there's already bigger things to worry about. I found that barely a non issue anyway.
@@johnmarc1986 WIth a big war bow, say 120 - 160 lb you are going to want a wrist guard just in case anyway. If the string does catch your wrist you are going to seriously know about it if shooting a big bow like that!
Also shooting in battle is not like civilian target shooting, generally you are not shooting at individual targets but clout shooting at an area. Its only if the enemy is close that you are picking out individual targets and shooting at a flat trajectory. Its a completely different style of archery compared to competition shooting.
@@johnmarc1986 That wasn't part of the argument, nice shifting the goalposts.
Never thought I'd watch an hour and a half of beef over how you shoot an arrow, when I've never touched a real bow in my life. It was still interesting and informative though.
"Don't argue with stupid, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" - The Internet
Not necessarily by the internet, although I have heard it from a friend before. This deserves more attention.
@@vanivanov9571 Did you actually watch the video?
@@vanivanov9571 So, you have no actual understanding of context? Being that his frustration was with how he used the source. You've also claimed you carefully watched the video and contradict that claim immediately after by showing a blatant disregard for the arguments made you stated " I wrote a full-length rebuttal of his many, many lies. A fun one was when he blew a gasket for Nu using a source from 1515" If your example of a "lie" is that someone got mad, you're an idiot. That's coming from someone who doesn't give a damn about archery, I just care about decent arguments. Another important factor that is that even in the event that Shad was to insult this guy, that doesn't invalidate any argument he makes, it would make him an asshole, but being an asshole doesn't make you wrong. That'd be a genetic fallacy if you tried to apply that reasoning so I'd suggest avoiding it. I suppose it's always easier to claim the opposition is a liar rather than accept fault
@@vanivanov9571 And Nu Sensei doesn't avoid interacting with him. They have talked alot in emails
@@dakotamartin3119
Shh 🤫
The NU fanboy didn't come here to listen to reason, he came here to regurgitate stuff NU has said...
I mean he clearly either didn't watch the video, didn't watch it attentively and carefully enough or simply lacks the intelligence/knowledge to understand what is being said in the video...
Sorry if I was a bit mean there, just fed up with the guy, seen his comments in a couple comment threads here and he clearly isn't here to have a debate or a discussion but to regurgitate his already held opinions and blocks out any logical arguments that do not support said opinions...
You should always respond to serious critique because that is what encourages and exposes the truth of the subject. For all you know, you could create a rebuttal of an argument and then the other person explains it in a way that shows you didn't really understand what they meant or that you overlooked something and had the wrong idea.
You just simplified the heart of Science. Make a guess, try to prove it, let others try and disprove it, and then move forward with the best answer. It may not be perfect but it's the best system we've come up with so far and I'm pretty happy with it.
@@fictionmyth Couldn't agree more, I just wish it hadn't fallen out of practice recently. When it comes to science students in uni aren't being taught the Socratic method and many scientific fields are turning into political or economical industries where you agree or you aren't a part of those fields, which has led to these "scientific" groups essentially conning the public for personal gain.
Take corn subsidies, when they were first introduced everyone in relevant fields said it was a terrible idea and listed off the reasons which ranged from spread of disease to the biological impacts on people.
That argument is still being made today but not by a single person employed in those government agricultural sectors, while those people who are just ignore the arguments against and put up the vaguest arguments for why it isn't bad, not even for why it is good.
Shad here are two arguments that prove exactly how wrong you are about this. I know you are a religious man so the first argument is therefore totally valid.
First of all, if the good Lord had meant for us to shoot a bow on the right side, then He would have created us with both eyes on the right side.
Secondly, Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!
I rest my case.
** Applause **
BonrekTheOrc I spent at least 4-5 hours trying to poke holes in your argument. I even called distant friends and relatives trying to get their opinion on this, even though they’ve never shot bows before. Alas, your argument was so damn airtight, I had to walk away in failure and accept the fact that I was beaten.
Wait. He's using troll logic, but he's an orc. I don't know how to deal with this!
Dream Services International Hahahahahahahaha!!!! 😁
@@PSUQDPICHQIEIWC They're both filthy Xenos scum, brother. The Emporer told us which side of the bow to use! He taught us it's the side that kills all the treasonous heretics and that pushes the vile Xenos back into the Immaterium. So long as the bow fires towards the enemy, that is the correct way! Fret not for which hand holds the sword, worry only that the sword swings! The Emporer Protects!
I love how he says that it can't be possible yet a lot of traditional Japanese archery actually shoot from the right side and put their face off against the bow and turn their head before shooting even though the bow is as big as them they do it because they can draw all the way back
You don't draw back on a Japanese bow, you draw down and out using your back muscles.
@@jbrizzle4725 that's still drawing back lmfao
@@AverageAlien no it's not, Western bows primarily draw backwards with one arm, a yumi isnt drawn as such but opened with back muscles equally separating the tsuru from the dou.
Wow. I can't understand their point of view. Shad says "Here's a thing I found out." "Here's how I came to this conclusion:(Insert historical sources, logical deductions, and empirical data)." But it isn't good enough for them. These actually smart and skilled individuals can't stand that someone else knows something they don't I guess. Very harmful to humanity, let alone the archery community.
I feel these types who are outright denying that you can shoot well notched right side have the same stubborn mindset of idiot FErs. I'm getting the same feel from Nu's video that i do from seeing clips of FLERFS lol. strawmaning, ignoring obvious truths, and grabbing the wrong proofs
this thought might be a bit harsh
I'm a sport archer but with keen interest in medieval archery. I have to say that right side shooting is not only possible, but also has a couple of good reasons. First of all, it is way faster to put an arrow that way. Also, there is a thing of your 'main' eye which means that with a non-profiled medieval bow it might be easier for some people to just align the arrow with the other eye than the majority. And that are just like the two thing that came to my mind ad hoc...
so you shoot on the right?
I think all these people need some basic training in Bayesian logic.
- This art is accurate in this regard, and this regard, and this regard.This is relatively strong evidence that the artist is trying to be accurate.
- People in medieval times were often familiar with archery, as evidenced by this source, and this source and this source. That is weak evidence that the artist was also familiar with archery.
- From that we can infer some weak evidence that the art is accurate in regards of archery as well.
- Put together enough weak evidence and you can be pretty confident in the results.
It would also help them decouple their opinion from their person: your beliefs don't define you. You can, and should, drop incorrect beliefs like as much useless junk.
Are Shad's points incorrect? I have no clue. I do know that "you're an idiot" is not a refutation of his arguments, and as such sets off my bozometer.
Small evidence from every were and time that are not of the same influence(bias) make conclusions more close to true then false.If they point to the same target but the source are unrelated and independent.
the art thing kinda reminds me of hte whole "We don't know what this weapon was for, it looks rather impractical... MUST'VE BEEN FOR CEREMONIAL PURPOSES!!!" thing. Basically "They do not do it like we imagine it today, so it must be wrong!".
I can understand not wanting to interprete too much into art due to errors or artistic choices by the artist, but completely disregarding anything that goes against what's currently accepted as accurate also ain't the right way, unless it can be proven wrong. Otherwise it makes no sense to use medieval art as reference for anything, including clothing, arms and armour because´... well... because it could be WRONG!!!
Anyone who resorts to insults instead of arguments is automatically in the wrong in my opinion.
By you "logic" 500 years into the future, films should be considered relatively strong evidence.
Also films made in hollywood would be considered weak supporting evidence for things most americans are familiar with (cars, takeaway food, shopping malls, guns etc).
Films are usually accurate in that gravity goes the right way, ATM's usually function how they're meant to (card in, number in, money out, card out), as well other trivial things like automatic doors, elevators and escalators, how to order dinner from a waiter/waitress as well as the complex human interactions (condescension, spite, politeness, etc) associated with such an exchange.
Further, films get it right that: silencers on guns make any gun wisper (a science we've lost to time), that shooting a gun gangster style is a sensible method, and that you need to repeatedly cycle guns, even for models of gun that we know for a fact don't actually need it ( we know as a fact because the former empire of the U.S.A is littered in them, meaning most museums have such examples of open bolt guns).
Similarly, it was common place to have extended, eye contacted, conversations while driving a car from the 1960s (which proves that cars had some self driving ability in the 1960s, 50 years earlier than most historians say they did) and that the average car crash has an above 50% chance of an explosion (which we know is credible because usually the films showed the accurate use of the archaic gearbox as well as countersteering while drifting around a corner, immediately before the explosion).
Coming back to the 2020s:
I'm sure you can shoot a longbow with the arrow on the right side of the bow, probably rather accurately too. I'm also sure you could, with enough practice, learn to do with with you feet (ua-cam.com/video/ihnnRZhculg/v-deo.html proof in case you want actual proof that can be done). That doesn't mean either method is smart or anything other than a curiousity that someone decided to record.
Shad is almost definitely wrong, the fact that he can't even gracefully acknowledge that kind of puts all of his work into doubt.
@@stephaniewilson3955 4+4=8, you idiot. What about now? Will you stay true to your statement and deny that that 4+4=8 or will you be sensible and admit that truth is truth and that status is completely irrelevant as to whether the truth is said with roses and lily's or with spite and hate.
I'll admit it's hard to admit you're wrong to a wanker. But morally speaking... Well that's entirely up to you. You can encourage a lie (thus becoming a petty liar) because you don't like the person, or you can stand for truth and admit you were wrong but still maintain your self respect.
When I got my first bow, I felt the need to shoot the arrow from the right side over my thumb because I wanted to "line my eye with the shaft." Eventually, I did find that drawing and firing from the left was more comfortable, however when it came to moving targets running from my left to my right, I often fired with my arrow on the right.
Shad, man you should stick to swords... here's why.
.
Sword Guy1: Hey! you have a sword?
Sword Guy2: Yeah! I have a sword :D
Sword Guy1: Alright! we should be friends! XD
.
Archer Guy1: Hey! you have a bow?
Archer Guy2: Yeah! I have a bow and I kinda like shooting on the right side
Archer Guy1: ...
Archer Guy2: ...
Archer Guy1 & Guy2: WE ARE MORTAL ENEMIES!!!!
Kinda like AR-15 and AK Guys^^
Should I swing the sword with my right hand or my left hand?
Edge alignment is edge alignment!
otter sir otten | So all in all only trust people that like to fight in close quarters!
just don't tell a longsword guy you own a katana... or vice versa. though my favourate was the time I demonstrated half swording with a katana to a katana nut (yes it can be done in a modified manner, you just have to keep your fingers off the cutting edge) the advantages of training in both eastern and western styles. you get to p**s everyone off tehehehehehe
crwydryny I don’t understand why people think some aspects of human invention cannot be changed in anyway, like it’s hit it functional peak. Reality is change and if you can’t change you get forgotten
The thing that really did it for me is that even the detractors admit that you can shoot faster but loose acuracy sligtly.
Now... why would you want to get more arrows into an enemy formation at the cost of shooting for the body and not bullseyes? Can't think of a single reason.
French knight gets pegged by arrow..
"Oi nice body shot ye filthy casual!"
Quantity has a quality all of its own.
I mean this is the problem of trying to apply Sports Logic when talking about War and Practicality. it just simply doesn't work.
For instance a sniper rifle is GREAT for ONE SPECIFIC THING, but trying to act like just because it's more accurate and great at longer distances, means that it's the best for up close shooting is just INSANE.
But this also shows a SERIOUS danger of when you apply Modern Approach to Ancient Times. I mean things were just DIFFERENT back then.
Not to mention the dangerous of a lay person trying to understand things from a Professional.
I mean I've seen it with people who don't know how to read Research Papers who create wild claims like "Chocolate is good for you and you should eat lots of it!" when that's NOT what the original paper said at all. There's things like Sample Size and Generalization concerns.
An ANY good academic is going to be open to new ideas and exchanges. Hell considering the WEALTH of information these historians have, he could get all KINDS of ideas for his videos. Like showing off a "Then vs Now" type of thing.
@@francescomiele6601 I'm not sure whether you recognised the sarcasm in the question that you're answering.
Some do prefer "spray&pray" to "one shot, one kill" :-)
Shoots bow differently. "Hey this works. Interesting and cool, isn't it?"
A few loud people: "Wait, that's illegal. How dare you."
A few loud people in their heads: "This bastard didn't give up on experiencing new things like I did. He might make me look like a fool. TEAR HIM DOWN."
and this is the very reason that even after more than 25 years of archery, and 30 years of martial arts I stay away from those communities. toxic doesn't begin to explain some of them. "oh you don't do things the same way I do, that must mean you're doing it wrong,"
heck I've even had someone complain at me about being "too agressive" with a sword during a demonstration because I treated it as a weapon not a fairy wand. (needless to say that guy's head was so far up his own faecal excretion chute that not many people in the organisation liked him lol)
this is one of the good things with people like shad, metatron, skall, matt ect, they at least are open minded enough to look at other ways of doing things, sometimes they find those things don't work for them other times they do. and that's how we progress in life, by experimenting and trying new things and seeing if they work. for example when shooting my bow, I don't draw the string back but rather I push the bow forward with my body weight while holding the string in place. I've only ever met one other person who did it this way until I taught a friend how to do it (due to an injury that made it hard for her to draw her bow normally)
As someone who's never shot a bow in his life, I always thought that the "correct" way to shoot the arrow was on the right side of the bow. From just a logical standpoint, I think shooting the arrow on the right side of the bow makes the most sense. It's much quicker than threading the arrow through the string and bow (as is done on the left side), and as Shad mentioned, the extreme precision wasn't needed in medieval warfare.
It's just my gut reaction. I would have *never* thought to do it the way that it's "supposedly" done.
Shad. I have a point to make that theoretically makes shooting on the right side more safe and less injury prone. I am a certified athletic trainer (yes the fanny pack guy if you watch pro sports.) ATs are a sports teams medical staff and are trained in orthopedic injuries, rehabilitation, and biomechanics. Typically a rounded shoulder (rolling the shoulder forward) will tend to lead to injury over a long period of time. Mainly impingements and rotator cuff injuries. What you demonstrated how how to shoot on the right side of the bow, I would say that you actually had better back and shoulder posture/alignment and can engage your back and scapular muscles more effectively by having your palm rotated out and shoulder rotated back (like you demonstrated). Basically what I am saying is that when you say you felt like you used more of your back muscles when shooting on the right is correct, you do engage your back muscles more in that posture. And I believe most medical staff would agree in saying that engaging those muscles more effectively and in better posture is less injury prone and is usually more biomechanically sound. Hope this helps or at least makes an interesting point. I personally only have a small amount of experience shooting bows but enjoy doing so when I get the chance. Thanks.
And when I say rolling of the shoulder I am talking more about movement of the scapula not just the humerus. Movement of the scapula does effect positioning of the humerus. Generally in upper limp activities, the better the scapular positioning more more efficient the movement which does tend to decrease injury. And yes of course trying a new technique takes practice and a gradual increase in weight/resistance to strengthen the proper muscles. All archery techniques have some risk of injury as does anything else.
@@benturner1053 Hey Ben. My left shoulder has 2 intact ligaments left. One is torn. The other two are gone. That shoulder has a tendency to pop out under any stress or stain. I have gotten good at popping it in when it pops out. Suggestions are appreciated. I am sick and tired of it.
Jon Murray sounds like you probably have a torn labrum with maybe some other stuff going on. It is surgically repairable. As far as exercises go, I’d start with some theraband shoulder strengthening exercises. Many baseball pitchers do them to help prevent injury. They’re easy to google. The exercises won’t fix the issue but by strengthening all the muscles around the shoulder you will help keep it more stable. But ultimately it sounds like it will require surgery. If you’re not in the US... good luck getting into a doctor and scheduling surgery if they’ll even do it. Either way try the theraband exercises. If you do get the surgery then you’ll be doing them in physical therapy anyway so you’ll be ahead of the game.
@@benturner1053 I've been living with this for 25 years. It's my left shoulder and the doctor at the time didn't want to operate.
Jon Murray try the theraband exercises. Start with lighter resistance and work your way up in weight as tolerated. And stay within a pain-free range of motion (don’t strain to go as far as you can). With time and reps, you’re strength and ROM (within the exercises) will increase. You should notice that your shoulder pops out of place less and less after you’ve built up that strength. Look up shoulder abduction, scaption, flexion, internal rotation and external rotation. All these exercises have variations for free weights, therabands, etc. I’ve even had patients use cans of soup as their weights. Make sure you keep your shoulders back/chest up and have good posture during the exercises so you get the most out of the exercise and avoid forming an impingement.
-Mommy, why is daddy yelling at the camera again?
- You wouldn't get it
Van Ivanov an opinion supported by a mountain of lies and withhold information
Shad, there's times where it's said, "Don't rock the boat".
This is not one of those times, flip the damn thing.
I think this was more like a torpedo. From the right side.
Oof!
Even Jesus flipped tables at one point.
Shad thanks for talking about this I used to love archery but stopped doing it because people would tell me I was doing it wrong when I was very young I didn't know that other people even used the right side so thanks perhaps I'll try it again.