I originally came for the railway, and sort of miss those videos (but I understand your point about it needing to earn its keep), but stay because every video is a wild, soft-spoken and cobbled together ride, and I often learn something new along the way!👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Your comment about the railway gave me an idea to a concept of using the wheels of the train to generate heat during the winter. Yes, it would make the wheels more expensive by having mounted magnets on them.
A easier and safer suggestion: It doesn't matter whether the magnets or copper is rotating. So rotate a copper disk and have the magnets on a non-moving board to remove the risk of the magnets flying off. Even better, for the rotating disk, use aluminum rather than copper - it wont make a difference which is used as long as they are thick enough. The thickness should be the "skin depth" at 666Hz (40,000 flips/min divide 60) which for Copper is 2.5mm and Al is 3.1mm, so a disk of either at those thicknesses will be as good as you can hope to get in terms of heat generation from eddy currents. Even better, if your stationary magnets are mounted in a thin holder, use two disks, one on each side of the magnets for twice the heat. And, since the heat is generated in the rapidly rotating aluminum disk(s), the rotation will create air movement to help transfer heat to the air. Regards from Canada!
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 Wish I was I was nearer too - been following your projects since the farm railroad which is still my favourite! I'll email you with a few more thoughts.
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 Per ElectromagneticVideos point about metal cups for the magnets, those are usually available from the magnet suppliers. They really do make a difference in power. Also from Canada. (Alberta)
As a fellow tinkerer and the powers invested in me by the School Of Hard Knocks, I hereby dub thee: a true Gizmologist and a Master Gizematician and you shall now be known as Sir Tim of the Gizmo. Go forth and wear your laurels well!
Great experiment Tim. Would love to see this done again with a long tube of copper that goes most way round the disc. Once the water heats up, it should set up its own recirculatorry action into a bucket with the cool water feeding in the bottom, and the hot water spitting out the tube into the top of the bucket.
still doesnt work. the eddy currents form around each magnet. you need sufficient conductor around each pole to get a good eddy current... a flat plate of copper, with a pipe soldered to it works far better... nothing stopping the eddy currents from doing their own thing then...
@@paradiselost9946 yes the edycurrents ned area to flow properly. Only change i would use an Aluminium ring because sits way cheaper. To extract the heat add a rund grove around it to insert a copper pipe with goog thermal contact. Also get the magnets as close as possible to the plate
@@fabianbohnert120 silver :) copper can be had in nice slabs from a scrapyard. theres always at least one bus bar or similar being scrapped. but yeah, aluminium works just as well...
As it's setup right now, the magnets produce a magnetic field on both sides of the disk. That means you could put metal on both sides of the disk. Or you could use something called a Halbach array, which is a special way to arrange the magnets so that most of the magnetic field is on only one side of the disk.
He would have to adjust the disk design a bit. Since he put the magnets inset in the surface, he would either have to inset magnets on the other side of the disk or make the disk thinner and drill the holes all the way through so that that magnet is flush with both sides of the disk.
He could put twenty pickups on the top and twenty on the bottom, thereby making 2000 times more heat. If each of these pickups ended on a water bath, the corresponding steam could heat a house and cook food.
Yes, but don't you think that this whole experiment is futile? In physics, there is no such thing as free energy - when powering the contraption by a Pillar Drill. It needs to be a windmill, or similar free source of power / energy.
@@peterduxbury927 It WILL be powered by a windmill. That's the whole point of the experiment. Direct conversion of wind energy to heat - very efficient, and FREE once the hardware is built. You should watch the video before commenting.
You have to watch the temperature of the magnets, especially for Neodym! N 80 °C M 100 °C H 120 °C SH 150 °C UH 180°C EH 200 °C Overheating them, means they loose their magnetism....
The heater, the explainations in the video, and the remarkable technical comments/discussion between users truly made this video one of the best I've seen on YT in years. Kudos!
*@Way Out West - Workshop Stuff* 8:08 *USE A WEDGE to handle these types of magnets.* Make a wooden wedge, at a shallow angle, then wedge the magnets apart *but ALSO together* so they don't slam into each other & break (as you have done twice already). It is also MUCH safer for your fingers & other limbs, also be careful of magnet-fragments flying at high speeds towards your eyes. *You can also build a kind of wooden "scissor", to "sheer off" one magnet from the rest.*
Since the windmill will be pretty powerful, you can stack more than one disk along the shaft. Then you can coil your copper tube to pass between two disks with every loop. Btw i was impressed by the performances, that thing surely heats! Much better then the friction system. Also, watch the temperature of the magnets!
Nice example of energy transfer! You could use this magnet system and a copper pipe, that goes all the way around, on both sides, to heat water, then pump it to where ever you need heat. Then again, energy is energy - You could do the exact same thing with coils of wire, making AC current, and run electric heaters. Or you could just run a water pump in a loop. Every joule of energy put into the pump, would eventually turn into heat, plus you have a simple means of getting the heat out. Even easier, run a fan that circulates the air. I've seen 13 hp blowers, freewheeling and blowing into themselfs, catch internals on fire from the build up of heat. Maybe a box with a fan going to the windmill, and you open vents to let some of the heated air out as needed. Also if you have a gate valve on the recirculating air, you can control the resistance to the windmill by how much air is moved by the fan. Like you say, there is more ways to skin a cat. (I think I've heard you say that. )
What a ride. I had to look up when the bandsaw build was because thats when I and i assume many others found the channel. 7 years! So many cool projects.
I love it when you cobble something together to carry on with a project! It's my fav part. And I really like this whole project. I can't wait to see what happens. Last and most importantly, I really hope that you feel better soon. I hate that you have been sick for so long. Drink plenty and rest plenty!
Have you tried to break the bug by sweating it out? Have yourself a meal with plenty of garlic and drink plenty of water then rug up and jump into your nice warm bed and then let your body do the cooking! It will be a rough night but it should break the back of the flu bug. Mark from Melbourne Australia 🇦🇺
Did experiments with these along tine ago. the best results we found were... mounting the magnets inside a horizontal tube, tried many.. with a series of small coiled copper pipers inside. The copper tubes remained static while the tube was rotated. given enough rpm the water we created was steam in a very short time.the introduction of a fly wheel and and manual start for the system was a must as resistance does happen. but the fly wheel then was given a commutator to induce a switching timing effect and reduce the amount of power needed in production of the rotation of the fly wheel, kind of like a gentle push every few seconds and creating a knock or push effect to keep the wheel moving constant. something powered by wind or a a super capacitor bank powered by wind turbine or solar. Its an exciting venture your into here but the tweaks and versions will be frustrating. Hope your boredom level doesnt exceed the excitement you now feel and you continue this series of endeavors.
For increased power lengthen the area of the copper over the magnets. A very imporpant faktor is to get as close as possible to the magnets since the magnatic field drops off rapidly with distance . Another factor is to use copper with thicker walls since more current can flow. Also the magnetic field does not pull or pusch on the electrons direcktly, it pusches them in a 90 degree angle to the movement of the magnets. Once the elektrons move themselves the push direcktion changes which results in a circular motion of the elektrons. With this relativ low speed these circles are quite large , therefore the power schould also be significantly increased by using wider copper. If there is copper overlaying on both sides of the magnet the circular currents can flow better. To check which effects the dimension changes have you con also use copper/brass/aluminium plates. If the plates produse more heat there will also be a greater pull felt on them. So you can get faster feedback by checking how much your heater gets pulled into the movement direction of the magnets. Possibly the best solution would be an aluminum circle over the magnets. With this size of magnets id use about a 5mm thick plate, whith the ring thicknes twise te magnet diameter, so overlapping half a magnet inner and outer circumference. To extract the heat from the al you might be able to get a round grove turned on the outside, where a copper tube can be laid in. (use rather 7-10mm thick plate) Of course it could also be soldered to a brass plate but that will probably be way more expensive than the aluminium
Not disagreeing, but an alternative notion. Very thin walls, and also very close but with radiator type fins on the inside so the fins themselves are affected by the magenetic field. This would allow for more efficient transfer of heat. I would agree with wrapping the tube all the way around, but also on the other side of the magnets as well.
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299Another option that might be easier to manufacture is to put the conductor in a ring on the outside of the rotor. It can also be bend from flat material this way. Only need to glue the magnets on the outside of the rotor. Also wood is pretty good for the rotor, since metal would also be heated a tiny bit from the eddicurrents. Rather switch to plywood though. Still ceep the conductor overlapping by half a magnet on both sides and the material at least 5mm thick. With this I'm guessing the drillpress wont be able to spin the rotor faster than 200rpm.
Very inspiring! Thank-you. This winter, I will be experimenting with simple vertical (savonius) wind generators which could be used without 90 degree gearing. I'm curious if a longer copper pipe (loop), taking advantage of all the magnets could be bent around the entire magnet disk, and passively connected to a water tank?
Good work and I'm glad you decided to give induction heating a go over friction. This (or simply running a generator into a heating coil) are so much more efficient, both in terms of turning rotational energy into heat and in terms of maintenance. My only bit this time were the friction fit magnets, particularly at 1000 rpm. There was definite squinting and cheek clenching going on. They're not going bullet fast, but still, 1000 rpm for a circle that is ~1.4m in diameter means that they're going 23 m/s, or about 50 mph. Definitely going to hurt or potentially break something if one of them goes flying.
Unfortunately it's still a low frequency, most induction units work over 25khz, many types are commonly in the 30 to 40 kHz range for efficiency. His rotation disc would fly apart at those speeds, he's measuring at rpm, not khz
I'm not sure that at the frequency this system would be more efficient than a generator/heating coil though. It is certainly more hazardous spinning those magnets around 😊😊
Tim, this is excellent, really like this one what with being contactless and everything. Much fun to be had with all those variables too. Who'd have thought that non-ferrous metals would also get hot? Hurrah for those clever jiggly electrons! Very much hope the better weather brings with it a much overdue end to your flu. As ever, all best from South East England.
Smaller rectangle shaped magnets in the same space will give more pules per revolution, and if you place a coil of wire next to these magnets, ac current will be generated, which can be retified into dc for charging batteries etc. so this can be dual purpose, heating water and generating electricity.
pretty cool idea for heating an area. you could put the metal that interacts with the magnets closer or further from the magnets as you want it hotter or cooler throughout the year. really interesting idea man.
Nice. Thank you for the video 👍 I had a past project to replace my house boiler by a non mouving copper sphere with water flowing in the sphère. The sphère was surrounding by magnet attached to a windmil shaft. The windmil can follow the wind direction by turning arrond the sphère axis. Simple is beautiful.
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 I Never buid it. I leave in south of France and the sun is more powerfull compare to the wind. So i build a solar thermal system to heat the floor.
Brilliant Tim. Some kind of heat exchanger/central heating system springs to mind. Certainly lots of possibilities on how to put it to use. A brewing vessel for Tea is a must lol....
A copper pipe bent into a circle that matched the magnets, on each side of the wheel could heat water to circulate into the house, and wind can even drive the pump. Excellent work.
Now just got to learn about halback pattern, minimize the distance between magnets and the metal, increase the interaction amount, aka more copper pipes, and maybe not pipes, but solid blocks with channels for water, maybe use pure iron to redirect the magnetic field so less of it is dispersed in air. Sounds like a fun project and i want to see success and good performance
@@ThalassTKynn Another good way to do it it have a ring, with magnets on its inside, centrifugal force will be applied outwards, but the magnets are facing in, so they are kept in there tight, and then the metal piece that heats up could be in the middle of the ring. A minimalistic design
I absolutely love your Heath Robinson builds. Sound science built from old bits and pieces. Really surprised how well this worked. A disc that size with a dozen heating areas, water pumped through, could definitely provide some heating.
Glad to see you investigating magnets. Having worked with Neodymium magnets before, I can warn you pay close attention to the temperature warnings: the magnets lose strength quite rapidly and permanently starting at around 80c So you'll want to keep the heat you're generating away from the magnets you're using the generate it. A vexing problem. Good Luck!
This is fascinating as heck. I'm imagining the windmill powering a chain of gears that graduate upwards and in turn spin many magnetic discs, heating a large, even area of pipes on a wall or a floor or even suspended in the air above or below the spinning discs of magnets. Free hot water for as long as the windmill spins.
Sub'd. No way I'm going to miss this project. When I was a teen (back in the 1800s I think) in Kansas, I built a windmill rock polisher. It was direct drive -- simply a trailer tire about 1/3 the diameter of a pretty rough, dual-bladed approx 1 meter windmill, hooked directly to the shaft. The grit and the rocks were dumped into the bottom side of the tire. They tumbled there just fine until the rpms got to where the rocks ceased tumbling and just became fixed to the inside of the tire. This caused me to install flexible blades on the windmill that regulated rpms down to where the rocks remained tumbling in all but the worst wind Kansas could throw at it. Then I became interested in girls and junked the whole apparatus.
That was a fun video- really explains in basic terms just how induction heating really works which is no doubt very helpful for some viewers new to this . Viewers comments are great too ! It would be interesting to know if this method would work better for your purposes than running a generator and using the current produced to heat an element . Keep up the interesting work !
Both sides of the wheel can be used to generate inductive heating. You are also generating electricity that can be transmitted from the wind mill elsewhere
I would add heat exchanger/accumulator to heat up a water reservoir that would then heat water passing through it. But consider pressure safety. Magnet disc in this setup won't be able to produce enough current for substantial flow heating.
Tim, once you get the windmill and the magnet wheel setup done, consider the following: At zero speed, you have maximum torque on the windmill blades/on the magnets, but you produce zero power. At maximum speed, you will have zero torque being applied to the windmill blades, and zero torque at the magnet wheel. The magnet wheel is happier the faster you spin it, that is not of concern. It is the windmill blades who have this intrinsic bell shaped curve of their power output versus speed. At the ends of the graph, the power is zero. The maximum power point is somewhere in between, at a certain speed. That maximum power point speed varies a little bit with load and wind speed, and it is certainly not in the middle of the graph. Your best bet would be to have the windmill turn at the speed at which in most use cases the windmill will produce maximum power, or at least close to maximum power. What I want to say with all of this is, make sure that you don't try to operate the windmill at speeds that are far from this perfect sweet spot. If you can't adjust the blade pitch based on load and wind speed (overspeed furling of the blades does not count) then the only way you can affect this operating spot is by setting the reduction ratio correctly (between windmill and magnet wheel). The sweet spot can only be found experimentally. For this, the best thing would be a CVT (continuous variable transmission) in between your windmill and the magnet wheel, and measuring the power output while changing the CVT setting to see where is the maximum power produced, for your average wind speed. But for this experiment, you need constant wind. After you have found the ideal transmission ratio, a classic fixed ratio transmission can be installed, which is more efficient and cheaper than a CVT. Changing any parameter of the system (diameters, nr of magnets, etc.) will require you to do the experiment again. See this just like you see an internal combustion engine: the engine of a car is efficient only at a certain speed. Good luck!
Perhaps you can regulate it with the load using a centrifugal governor; controlling the proximity or exposure of the stationary conductor to extract more or less energy to keep it in the sweet spot.
If the copper was a big round plate with radial cooling fins, you would not need water. It would circulate air and heat it. Apparently aluminum works well with a carbon coating .
@@OstrichWrestler Came here to say this. Glad to see others thinking the same way. The simplest mechanism maybe a ramp shape where the coil is pulled up the ramp by the magnetic "drag" forces. As the coil rises up the ramp It gets further from the magnets and produces less drag. The incline of the ramp plus a return spring should be enough to tune and control the power output.
God bless you, sir. You're very resourceful and what you're talking about. Has many, many applications for making up heat loss at a house when the wind's really blowing or leaves, keeping one room. One room warm enough during these high winds. Which normally the heater will not keep up with.
I love the idea of producing heat with wind power! My suggestion with the inductive heating idea is possibly using a ferromagnetic pole piece on one side to intensify the magnetic field on the top side. My other idea for the goal of using wind power for heating is that you could use your wind turbine to drive the compressor of a heat pump, it could be several times more efficient, and plus it could heat and cool. Of course this would mean you can't build it yourself from raw materials, I love how simple the magnet design is!
Good stuff here. Takes me back trying very hard to teach magnetism and induction to students in the days when Sir Eric Laithwaite was demonstrating his levetating train. Technology went abroad of course. Thanks for posting, take it easy!
Really loved this video. Being a miller myself, I'm really fond of the fact that you want to use a windmill to power this. If you intend to build it with a more classical approach, similar to the diagram in the video, I could give you some advice, should you fancy that. Good luck with this exciting new project!
Very impressive Tim, I think you might want to consider some other material for the disk if you increase the speed anymore. I don't think I would trust MDF to last at higher RPMs. Also maybe build a bracket to hold the water pipe above the disk and make it bigger to cover more area, I bet it would heat the water faster. Hope your health improves very soon.
You seen in the one clip he showed someone using an aluminum disk for the base. This is smart as it it tougher and will act as a heat sink to keep the magnets cooler, as neodymium magnets will lose their strength at higher temps.
Well, great. I was going to get a bunch of work done today but I guess instead I'll be gluing magnets in circles and attaching them to various spinning tools in my shop. THANKS TIM.
I thing a large copper pot with an iron base with a composite metallic can heat to up 1000 degrees . The reverse of this can also be used to cool down to negative temperature as a refrigerator. Thermo electric cooler
Something that nobody seem to do on this induction heating wheels is put a steel backing plate so the magnetic circuit gets shorter increasing the power of the magnets significantly.
You could also make one to be spun by some sort of bicycle where in a grid down situation you could pedal and boil water. Making a fire would be easier though but maybe other purposes may arise?
*@Way Out West - Workshop Stuff* eg: 5:39 Look more into: *"Halbach array"* (here I would have linked to Wiki, but UA-cam auto-deletes comments with links in) It's a way to arrange magnets, such that adjacent fields increase the strength of other fields, and if done correctly it also limits the amount of magnetic fields going out on the "back side" of what you're using it in, it will most likely be useful for a full scale version of this heater.
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 Not sure how you mean with "reverse"? You can always spin the disk / base-plate in the opposite direction, that's no problem. But to "reverse" the magnetic field itself, you would need to physically change the magnets orientations. But from your wheel-construction, I assume you want the strongest magnetic fields to be aimed "upwards" away from the "base-plate", so i don't see any need for "reversing" the magnetic field, as that would aim most of the magnetism into the wooden plate instead, where most of the magnetism would be wasted. If by "reverse" you mean something about the "flips" in the magnetism? The shape of the magnetic field will be more "spiky" and it uses groups of 3 magnets to make 1 "spike". The magnet field goes "in" to magnet A, "through" magnet B and "out" from magnet C and back "into" magnet A (and half through E) again.
If you use both sides of the magnet for induction heating then there’s no reason to use a Halbach array, and if you rotate the metal rather than the magnets then there’s no problem with flying magnets.
@@sebbes333 Thanks - so it wouldn't be possible to repeatedly flip the flux then? Or could you do this experiment with the magnets in the Halbach arrangement?
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 Yes, it would be possible to do this experiment with the Halbach Array, the biggest problem would be the shape of the magnets, as they work better the closer they are & more surface they share, and round shapes are bad at touching each others, idealy they would be almost cubical, but very slightly pie-shaped to fit optimally. The "flux flipps" are still possible, as each "spike" is made from a "input" & an "output" side. -->-- ---- ---- --
I like this concept a lot. A full ring of copper pipe circulating water by a shaft driven pump sounds like a more possibly more efficient way to use the wind power than having to first convert the motion to electricity and then back into either heat or motion again to heat and pump water.
You will probably need to find a way to keep the magnets cool when it's running, because the warmer they get the less magnetic they become. And I believe they can become permanently demagnetized if they get hot enough. A water bath would get the walls wet, maybe a flywheel made of a material that would allow airflow around the magnets. Aluminum. I've never experimented with this so maybe I am incorrect about the magnets heating up. But this is an excellent idea for free green heat.
Actually you would want to go in something of a c-shaped Channel of copper tube all the way around the outside edge of the disc and over the magnets. The beauty of this is, if you use copper tubing, not only can you pass water through it for heating it will also generate electricity!
Now this method seems way better than the metal on metal friction idea. Sure, those magnets aren't cheap but it's a one time cost and seeing how fast they can create the temperature rise, very impressive indeed! Thanks Tim 👍💪✌
Wonderful concept, and so simple, video is very well done! I can imagine stacking up the magnet discs, affixed to a common shaft, with an aluminum or copper stator disc between each pair of magnet discs. Forced air through the rotating stack would extract plenty of usable heat, depending on scale.
Hi! Here's another idea. Maybe you'll like it too. In some nuclear power plants, when they have excess rotational energy they want to dump, they have big spinning wheels partially submerged in a water tank. The wheels have cups that close around a volume of air when rotating -- and subsequently pull the cups apart when the wheels take them under water. It doesn't boil the water but it heats it up a lot.
If you calculate the amount of wattage used to propel the drill press, and calculate the amount of heat generated, you'll find that it's less efficient than a toaster's resistance heating element. The most efficient system for generating heat is a deep-Earth geothermal bore where for a one-time investment of [a LOT of money] you get essentially free heat forever. Mostly used in places like Iceland where the Earth's crust is very thin, but you can do it anywhere.
Thanks for sharing your ideas and video. Very interesting and entertaining. Imagine if you had a coil of small diameter copper tubing wound to the same diameter as your circle of magnets. Install it to a fixed point above the magnets and give it a water reservoir and circulation loop. Put a power meter on your motor input and compare the power needed to spin with empty no water tube to a water filled tube and compare how much load it puts on the drill motor vs amount of water and temperature gain.
Even to my tiny bit of understanding of physics, this makes much more sense than the metal plates in water or oil. I hope you feel better soon. Have you been to the Dr? I don't think anyone should have ',flu for a month.
Crossed my mind to try this with hard drive magnets, cool to see that it actually works. If you can bend a long copper pipe to go all around it so that all magnets are affecting copper at all times, I think it would actually be very effective. Could also have a pipe on both sides of the disc as the magnetism will work both ways.
At this scale I think it'd be easier for one end to go in straight, and then the other turn sharply up and then meander into going back to the house EDIT: also, copper doesn't work well with induction, since it's a good conductor. You want electrical resistance for the heat to be emited. A PVC pipe with a carbon steel cable through the middle might be the best? Since it won't be heated on the surface. Or a steel pipe encased in some insulation
I was thinking that too, you could pump the water through the pipe and potentially regulate the speed of the water so that it doesn't get too hot before it leaves the part over the magnet. You could also potentially have two, one on the topside of the wheel and one on the bottom, depending on what (if any?) drag they put on the wheel.
@@owllymannstein7113 making it go through the magnet heated part faster wouldn't change the temperature equilibrium though, as each liter would also emit less heat when going through radiators and would return to the heater warmer than if it went slower. I think a better solution for temperature regulation would be moving the pipe closer or further from the magnet wheel
Huzzah!!! 🎉🎉🎉 That is exciting! Especially if you have your copper pipe all the way around so you are generating heat from the whole circumference, and not just a small fraction of it! I hope you get well soon! 🙏🙏🙏
Neat. The temperature thing is the big issue. One of those laser thermometers will help. A design where the magnets are locked between two sheets is a good start, whether you rotate the magnets or not. One magnet coming adrift with low clearances and high speed will likely rip all the other magnets out in an explosive disaster. Even one at 1000 rpm is undesirable, it could cascade the wheel out of balance. Glue doesn't like heat either. The two sheet thing requires fatter magnets to leave safe clearance. The magnet ring could benefit from cooling fins on one side, but this uses power, but you might be able to duct the warm air somewhere useful, away from the magnets. You could also go full boar and along with heating water on the bottom side use the finned side to generate electricity via other magnets. It all depends on the size of your windmill, you're just harvesting the 'free' power. Good luck, stay safe.
A few thoughts on scaling it up to the windmill. For one, you could have one large power take-off shaft, and then multiple belts coming off to multiple spinning magnetic wheels - much like how the old water powered factories of the early industrial revolution worked. Following on that, you can have more than one pully, and thus get a gear ratio/transmission effect going, so a large slow windmill can translate into small fast disks. Directly induction heating a house might be a bit hard, but boiling water with induction and setting up a steam plant might work well.
Actually you don’t need to gear. Just move the plate closer or further away and the inductive load will increase or decrease. If the wind is light keep the plate further away. If the wind gets faster bring it closer. This should maintain the velocity about the same.
Impressive! Apart from the whole industrial/home scale windmill thing, which is now looking quite practical, you realise of course that this means you could also do a more marketable project (like the car kits) of a bicycle powered travel kettle? :)
Cody's lab did something similar and managed to melt a small bit of metal with it. For heating water maybe get a thinner disc of aluminium to mount the magnets in and then have a coil of copper pipe on either side of the magnets for doubling the efficiency?, you could connect the two coils and then water will automatically rise up and form a very slow moving pump that can be used to automatically draw water from a container and heat it gradually.
*_"They got stuck somewhere."_* That one ALMOST *went* over my head...🤭 *EDIT→* I did not realize until just now that I misspelled the word *_"went"_* -- I originally typed *_"when"_* -- in the last line of this comment. I just corrected it.
As a German i've to admit i totaly missed *that one* ... Nevertheless it's nice to know that there are even more hidden gem's for me in the future when i managed to improve my english. :)
What got me to subscribe a long time ago was a video using the pipe bender. The pipe hit the ceiling, so he moved it outside because "here in Ireland the sky is pretty far up". I love the humour and enthusiasm in these videos.
You could look at building a hallbach array as it concentrates a magnetic field on a single side allowing for use of less powerful potentially cheaper magnets, or just fewer
Yep! You could also consider spinning the metal thru some stationary magnets and dripping water onto the metal. Then you could put a magnet above and below to get a very strong field. I have a stationary bike like this and it can get quite warm.
incredible, i wonder if you could do some calculations based on the volume of water you heared and the time it cost, to see if you could really heat up your house with this! but i'm pretty astonished that it works this well already!
So a huge windmill with copper piping and a water tank up top, lower is the shower and bath, the windmill also runs the water pump off a second belt, the induction magnet spinner is fast because it is geared up with a few pulleys and belt from the windmill, then also you use residual wind from the blades to run air across some of the copper pipe for the clothes drier, hair drier, and of course the washing machine uses the water pump and pulley belt drive.
This gives me an idea, you could in theory make a forge and foundry with those magnets. Make it smaller, add gear teeth to the end of the disks and make 4 more
Now that was impressive! I like you style - both in video presentation and in the workshop! Looking forward to seeing the next episode too. Thanks very much.
Alright, this is probably your most terrifying contraption to date, Tim... And i kinda love it. I do wonder, assuming your could make the carrier bracket rigid enough to withstand the net pulling force of the magnets, wouldn't a ferris metal like iron or steel be even more efficient? What about the different non-ferrous meals like aluminum, brass/bronze, stainless steel? Non metalic conductors, like graphite? Or! The thickness? Do thicker reservoirs get hot faster because they have more metal to jiggle, or does the added thermal mass contract that? Ooh! So many fun experiments!
Amazing! I would advise a bit of caution though (well I would wouldn't I?). You are having a alternating magnetic field at 600Hz! If any metallic things got near that it could get interesting! ........ By interesting I mean loosing a digit that had a ring on it or less importantly trashing a phone or watch! Now for the interesting stuff ....... those magnets whirling round affect the metal near them. You can use metallic guides to move that field some distance away should you need to! Also the fact that they affect the metal is a two way street. Inducing an magnetic field will slow the disc down (You get nowt fer nowt as a Yorkshire teacher once said to me). The more you take out the more energy you need to put in to counter this so ........ the number and size of disc you have will not matter too much as the speed you spin it will be determined by the work you get out of it! A bit like gear ratio's. The faster you "flip the field" the more heat you get out and it is not a linear graph so faster is better ..... sort of! As you alluded to there is resonance and inductance to bear in mind! Finally I would point out that those magnets have a field going out of each side and you are only dealing with half of it at the moment (I know, proof of concept). With the use of armatures above and below you can increase the energy output a lot and this can allow you to cut the distance between the magnet and your kit down to a minimum giving you more for less! I look forward to more videos on this!
THIS is VERY viable to say the least.!! You need to measure that copper with no water in it to see how hot the metal gets by itself. IT should reach 200C easily without the water load on it. That which you've shown eliminates mechanical coupling and bearings turning a generator, then taking the output and coupling it to storage or even directly to a heater as in this case which has losses in the resistive heating elements . The losses through all of that are appreciable. IF you use blades under a meter in diameter, you can couple it 1:3 to the wheel and in 30 MPH winds blowing in the winter it will move the wheel at over 2500 RPM ! IF U made steam in a vessel it would push itself into radiators automatically. The next question is how many pounds of steam pressure will a little module like that make. I would say over 3-5 which is way more than needed to pump it around. Once the water reaches 100C and becomes steam, it takes only 1/5 the energy to keep it at it's steam pressure. THAT is the key point to efficiency in this heating system.
@@irpyc the man uses a guardless router table. I feel like the safety goggles got kicked under the workbench and covered in dust and cobwebs 20 years ago.
Very good experiment. Keep in mind that is a tiny volume of water, so a meaning ful water volume will a bit longer to reach such a temperature. Still, you DID prove that the concept is sound.
you can put copper around the entire disk instead of at just one spot and that would use more of the flipping magnetic fields instead of just using them where the copper is. Should be more resistance I think.
One of the things you will eventually have to work out is how to adjust the mechanical loading of the windmill as windspeed changes. This is important to extract energy efficiently. The only way I can think of without dramatic changes to your system is to move the copper farther or closer to the spinning disk (rotor).
Genius! Each time, I'm impressed by your unconventionel problem solving! The copper pipe could be guided in a coil with the same radius of the magnetic ring. To get maximum outcome, one or more rounds over and just as under the magnets. So floating water should have enough time to get hot. Rectangular pipes in the right masurement should give more benefit in plus. Very interesting project! And better than the heating by friction idea. This magnetic setup seems to be maintenance free!
no, the copper should be one continuous plate, so as to let eddy current form around each magnet, as they do. they dont make a "current" flowing "along the pipe". they make a small "eddy" directly above a magnetic pole. pipes dont contain enough "conductor" to allow a free path for induced eddy currents... unless you happen to push the magnet THROUGH the pipe. at whic point eddy currents will be produces AROUND the diameter of the pipe itself. the old trick of dropping a magnet down a pipe...
@@paradiselost9946 But, while the magnets are passing , the electrons will jiggle, and the water will heat up. The more time the water has beeing surrounded by jiggling electrons, the more it will heat up. There is no need for a current flowing along the pipe.
@@klausgeiben6608 "the electrons will jiggle"... ok. care to test this? why not use a GLASS bowl, so the magnetic field "jiggles th electrons" in the water directly? why bother with the conductor at all? "there is no need for a current flowing around the pipe"... um, yes there is as the heat is due to resistive heating as that current passes through a conductor... I2R heating... the more current, the more heat. simple. it isnt "hysteresis" heating. thats what a microwave does with water. utterly different concept.
You can try to measure the drag force on the metal bit you are heating to calculate the heating power transferred. P = (M*N)/9.55 where M is torque in Nm and N is rpm. Torque is r*F (radius of the magnet circle * measured force). Using a bigger metal piece will result on more braking force
Yes sir that looks like fun to me. ALSO, think brake caliper when it comes to the water manifold, perhaps thin down the MDF on the back side. That same flux is present there.
Here's an idea. instead of having the pipe over a single section of the wheel. you could have a ring that goes over all of the magnets at once, You'll be making heat on the whole thing then! of course i'm not TOO well versed in this sort of thing but I assume it works.
Cool video. Of course using mechanical rotation to compress air and use the released heat from that would be more efficient - in effect this would be a simple heat pump allowing efficiency /COP above 100%. But this is still v cool
Imagin you add another layer of magnets to the bottom of the disk. Then you custom design your water tank so that the tank itself wraps completely around the disk. I’m thinking I’d like a 360 degree brake caliper. Housing all magnet surfaces at all times.
This project is an attractive proposition. 50% of the time.
You did what I see there.
GROAN. XD
The other 50% of the time it's repulsive ...
I'm often repelled the other 50percent.
_Yes, Dad._
I originally came for the railway, and sort of miss those videos (but I understand your point about it needing to earn its keep), but stay because every video is a wild, soft-spoken and cobbled together ride, and I often learn something new along the way!👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
same here
...and here
same, I've been religiously watching this channel since
I came for the bees... 😂 one of the best on yt!
Your comment about the railway gave me an idea to a concept of using the wheels of the train to generate heat during the winter. Yes, it would make the wheels more expensive by having mounted magnets on them.
A easier and safer suggestion: It doesn't matter whether the magnets or copper is rotating. So rotate a copper disk and have the magnets on a non-moving board to remove the risk of the magnets flying off. Even better, for the rotating disk, use aluminum rather than copper - it wont make a difference which is used as long as they are thick enough. The thickness should be the "skin depth" at 666Hz (40,000 flips/min divide 60) which for Copper is 2.5mm and Al is 3.1mm, so a disk of either at those thicknesses will be as good as you can hope to get in terms of heat generation from eddy currents. Even better, if your stationary magnets are mounted in a thin holder, use two disks, one on each side of the magnets for twice the heat. And, since the heat is generated in the rapidly rotating aluminum disk(s), the rotation will create air movement to help transfer heat to the air. Regards from Canada!
Thanks very much! I wish you were much nearer..
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 They're like puppies. From a distance, they're cute. Close up, your shoes are going to get chewed.
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 Wish I was I was nearer too - been following your projects since the farm railroad which is still my favourite! I'll email you with a few more thoughts.
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 Per ElectromagneticVideos point about metal cups for the magnets, those are usually available from the magnet suppliers. They really do make a difference in power.
Also from Canada. (Alberta)
How do you transfer the heat into some water then, if the disk is spinning? That is much easier done with a stationary disk.
As a fellow tinkerer and the powers invested in me by the School Of Hard Knocks, I hereby dub thee: a true Gizmologist and a Master Gizematician and you shall now be known as Sir Tim of the Gizmo. Go forth and wear your laurels well!
And forever shalt wind blow you warm cosy and off the grid.
Agree.
Hear, hear!
Great experiment Tim. Would love to see this done again with a long tube of copper that goes most way round the disc.
Once the water heats up, it should set up its own recirculatorry action into a bucket with the cool water feeding in the bottom, and the hot water spitting out the tube into the top of the bucket.
still doesnt work. the eddy currents form around each magnet. you need sufficient conductor around each pole to get a good eddy current...
a flat plate of copper, with a pipe soldered to it works far better... nothing stopping the eddy currents from doing their own thing then...
@@paradiselost9946 yes the edycurrents ned area to flow properly. Only change i would use an Aluminium ring because sits way cheaper. To extract the heat add a rund grove around it to insert a copper pipe with goog thermal contact.
Also get the magnets as close as possible to the plate
@@fabianbohnert120 silver :)
copper can be had in nice slabs from a scrapyard. theres always at least one bus bar or similar being scrapped.
but yeah, aluminium works just as well...
As it's setup right now, the magnets produce a magnetic field on both sides of the disk. That means you could put metal on both sides of the disk. Or you could use something called a Halbach array, which is a special way to arrange the magnets so that most of the magnetic field is on only one side of the disk.
He would have to adjust the disk design a bit. Since he put the magnets inset in the surface, he would either have to inset magnets on the other side of the disk or make the disk thinner and drill the holes all the way through so that that magnet is flush with both sides of the disk.
He could put twenty pickups on the top and twenty on the bottom, thereby making 2000 times more heat. If each of these pickups ended on a water bath, the corresponding steam could heat a house and cook food.
Yes, but don't you think that this whole experiment is futile? In physics, there is no such thing as free energy - when powering the contraption by a Pillar Drill. It needs to be a windmill, or similar free source of power / energy.
@@peterduxbury927 It WILL be powered by a windmill. That's the whole point of the experiment. Direct conversion of wind energy to heat - very efficient, and FREE once the hardware is built. You should watch the video before commenting.
Or you can just take power transformers of equal size reconfigure the coils into around the disc
You have to watch the temperature of the magnets, especially for Neodym!
N 80 °C
M 100 °C
H 120 °C
SH 150 °C
UH 180°C
EH 200 °C
Overheating them, means they loose their magnetism....
Anyone know the temp grade of neo magnets in old hard drives? I have plenty of them :)
The magnets don't heat up.
Yes, not unless you spill boiling water on them.
@@command7772 you've got to be kidding right? 🤔
@@peripheralarbor because majority rules and you just agree with the sheep? 🤔
Explain?
my hats off to anyone making things in ireland. everytime i see metal it looks like the weather just eats it away!
thank you for the videos tim :D
Coastal NW Denmark salt-heavy Atlantic rust wind. Garaged car and tools, outdoor stainless and chromed fittings. All rusting to dustintime. Me too.
Forget heating your house, you could make the world's biggest wind-powered induction cooking pot! Imagine the size of the soups.
If you're going to use it to heat a pot, add another row or 2 in the middle, to generate more heat.
call it the "Magnetic gumbo" , or "Fireless Pit"
as someone with "SOUP" tattooed on my arm, i'm very glad i read your comment
@@herzogsbuick OK I'll bite! Why do you have SOUP tattooed on your arm? 😊
Mark from Melbourne Australia 🇦🇺
@@markfryer9880 Me bite too. Because seen in a changing-room the tattoo "Entrée". Not on the arm.
The heater, the explainations in the video, and the remarkable technical comments/discussion between users truly made this video one of the best I've seen on YT in years. Kudos!
"The more things jiggle the hotter they get". I can relate to that 🤣🤣
I was pretty confident I wouldn't have to go too far into the comments to find this fact having already been addressed.
Yes, agreed. 😆
Whats the influence of mass of the jiggling parts ...I mean gets a cup D hotter than e.g. cup C ?
Just asking for a friend......
So it's because of physics that big, uh, tracts of land, are appealing to ploughers... good to know.
BICYCLE PUMP,HEAT PUMP, NUCLEAR POWER STATIONS - GET SOME PHYSICS EDUCATION YOU MUPPET 😂😂
little simplistic brains...........
*@Way Out West - Workshop Stuff* 8:08 *USE A WEDGE to handle these types of magnets.*
Make a wooden wedge, at a shallow angle, then wedge the magnets apart *but ALSO together* so they don't slam into each other & break (as you have done twice already).
It is also MUCH safer for your fingers & other limbs, also be careful of magnet-fragments flying at high speeds towards your eyes.
*You can also build a kind of wooden "scissor", to "sheer off" one magnet from the rest.*
Since the windmill will be pretty powerful, you can stack more than one disk along the shaft. Then you can coil your copper tube to pass between two disks with every loop. Btw i was impressed by the performances, that thing surely heats! Much better then the friction system. Also, watch the temperature of the magnets!
Nice example of energy transfer!
You could use this magnet system and a copper pipe, that goes all the way around, on both sides, to heat water, then pump it to where ever you need heat.
Then again, energy is energy - You could do the exact same thing with coils of wire, making AC current, and run electric heaters.
Or you could just run a water pump in a loop. Every joule of energy put into the pump, would eventually turn into heat, plus you have a simple means of getting the heat out.
Even easier, run a fan that circulates the air. I've seen 13 hp blowers, freewheeling and blowing into themselfs, catch internals on fire from the build up of heat. Maybe a box with a fan going to the windmill, and you open vents to let some of the heated air out as needed. Also if you have a gate valve on the recirculating air, you can control the resistance to the windmill by how much air is moved by the fan.
Like you say, there is more ways to skin a cat. (I think I've heard you say that. )
What a ride. I had to look up when the bandsaw build was because thats when I and i assume many others found the channel. 7 years! So many cool projects.
Thanks Tim!
The highlight of my week is watching you tame the World through physics!
I love it when you cobble something together to carry on with a project! It's my fav part. And I really like this whole project. I can't wait to see what happens. Last and most importantly, I really hope that you feel better soon. I hate that you have been sick for so long. Drink plenty and rest plenty!
Drink nettle tea Tim.. they must grow there..
Have you tried to break the bug by sweating it out?
Have yourself a meal with plenty of garlic and drink plenty of water then rug up and jump into your nice warm bed and then let your body do the cooking! It will be a rough night but it should break the back of the flu bug.
Mark from Melbourne Australia 🇦🇺
Did experiments with these along tine ago. the best results we found were...
mounting the magnets inside a horizontal tube, tried many.. with a series of small coiled copper pipers inside. The copper tubes remained static while the tube was rotated. given enough rpm the water we created was steam in a very short time.the introduction of a fly wheel and and manual start for the system was a must as resistance does happen. but the fly wheel then was given a commutator to induce a switching timing effect and reduce the amount of power needed in production of the rotation of the fly wheel, kind of like a gentle push every few seconds and creating a knock or push effect to keep the wheel moving constant. something powered by wind or a a super capacitor bank powered by wind turbine or solar. Its an exciting venture your into here but the tweaks and versions will be frustrating. Hope your boredom level doesnt exceed the excitement you now feel and you continue this series of endeavors.
For increased power lengthen the area of the copper over the magnets. A very imporpant faktor is to get as close as possible to the magnets since the magnatic field drops off rapidly with distance . Another factor is to use copper with thicker walls since more current can flow. Also the magnetic field does not pull or pusch on the electrons direcktly, it pusches them in a 90 degree angle to the movement of the magnets. Once the elektrons move themselves the push direcktion changes which results in a circular motion of the elektrons. With this relativ low speed these circles are quite large , therefore the power schould also be significantly increased by using wider copper. If there is copper overlaying on both sides of the magnet the circular currents can flow better.
To check which effects the dimension changes have you con also use copper/brass/aluminium plates. If the plates produse more heat there will also be a greater pull felt on them. So you can get faster feedback by checking how much your heater gets pulled into the movement direction of the magnets.
Possibly the best solution would be an aluminum circle over the magnets. With this size of magnets id use about a 5mm thick plate, whith the ring thicknes twise te magnet diameter, so overlapping half a magnet inner and outer circumference.
To extract the heat from the al you might be able to get a round grove turned on the outside, where a copper tube can be laid in. (use rather 7-10mm thick plate) Of course it could also be soldered to a brass plate but that will probably be way more expensive than the aluminium
Not disagreeing, but an alternative notion. Very thin walls, and also very close but with radiator type fins on the inside so the fins themselves are affected by the magenetic field. This would allow for more efficient transfer of heat. I would agree with wrapping the tube all the way around, but also on the other side of the magnets as well.
Thanks Fabien - very interesting..
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 are you planning a radiator system or heat pumps tp distribute the warmth to the house?
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299Another option that might be easier to manufacture is to put the conductor in a ring on the outside of the rotor. It can also be bend from flat material this way. Only need to glue the magnets on the outside of the rotor. Also wood is pretty good for the rotor, since metal would also be heated a tiny bit from the eddicurrents. Rather switch to plywood though.
Still ceep the conductor overlapping by half a magnet on both sides and the material at least 5mm thick.
With this I'm guessing the drillpress wont be able to spin the rotor faster than 200rpm.
Very inspiring! Thank-you. This winter, I will be experimenting with simple vertical (savonius) wind generators which could be used without 90 degree gearing. I'm curious if a longer copper pipe (loop), taking advantage of all the magnets could be bent around the entire magnet disk, and passively connected to a water tank?
Good work and I'm glad you decided to give induction heating a go over friction. This (or simply running a generator into a heating coil) are so much more efficient, both in terms of turning rotational energy into heat and in terms of maintenance. My only bit this time were the friction fit magnets, particularly at 1000 rpm. There was definite squinting and cheek clenching going on. They're not going bullet fast, but still, 1000 rpm for a circle that is ~1.4m in diameter means that they're going 23 m/s, or about 50 mph. Definitely going to hurt or potentially break something if one of them goes flying.
Thanks - but the friction set-up was so much cheaper...
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 I don't doubt it. :-) It's your project either way - I appreciate you sharing.
Unfortunately it's still a low frequency, most induction units work over 25khz, many types are commonly in the 30 to 40 kHz range for efficiency. His rotation disc would fly apart at those speeds, he's measuring at rpm, not khz
I'm not sure that at the frequency this system would be more efficient than a generator/heating coil though. It is certainly more hazardous spinning those magnets around 😊😊
Tim, this is excellent, really like this one what with being contactless and everything.
Much fun to be had with all those variables too.
Who'd have thought that non-ferrous metals would also get hot? Hurrah for those clever jiggly electrons!
Very much hope the better weather brings with it a much overdue end to your flu.
As ever, all best from South East England.
Smaller rectangle shaped magnets in the same space will give more pules per revolution, and if you place a coil of wire next to these magnets, ac current will be generated, which can be retified into dc for charging batteries etc. so this can be dual purpose, heating water and generating electricity.
Using a windmill to generate electricity... why does that sound familiar? :)
pretty cool idea for heating an area. you could put the metal that interacts with the magnets closer or further from the magnets as you want it hotter or cooler throughout the year. really interesting idea man.
Your excitement for what you're doing is awesome.
Nice. Thank you for the video 👍
I had a past project to replace my house boiler by a non mouving copper sphere with water flowing in the sphère.
The sphère was surrounding by magnet attached to a windmil shaft. The windmil can follow the wind direction by turning arrond the sphère axis.
Simple is beautiful.
And did it work?
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 I Never buid it.
I leave in south of France and the sun is more powerfull compare to the wind. So i build a solar thermal system to heat the floor.
Brilliant Tim. Some kind of heat exchanger/central heating system springs to mind. Certainly lots of possibilities on how to put it to use. A brewing vessel for Tea is a must lol....
A copper pipe bent into a circle that matched the magnets, on each side of the wheel could heat water to circulate into the house, and wind can even drive the pump. Excellent work.
Now just got to learn about halback pattern, minimize the distance between magnets and the metal, increase the interaction amount, aka more copper pipes, and maybe not pipes, but solid blocks with channels for water, maybe use pure iron to redirect the magnetic field so less of it is dispersed in air.
Sounds like a fun project and i want to see success and good performance
And have the water pipe between two discs with the same magnet orientation, too.
@@ThalassTKynn Another good way to do it it have a ring, with magnets on its inside, centrifugal force will be applied outwards, but the magnets are facing in, so they are kept in there tight, and then the metal piece that heats up could be in the middle of the ring. A minimalistic design
@@karyjas1 Yeah that'd be a good way to do it
I absolutely love your Heath Robinson builds. Sound science built from old bits and pieces. Really surprised how well this worked. A disc that size with a dozen heating areas, water pumped through, could definitely provide some heating.
Glad to see you investigating magnets. Having worked with Neodymium magnets before, I can warn you pay close attention to the temperature warnings: the magnets lose strength quite rapidly and permanently starting at around 80c So you'll want to keep the heat you're generating away from the magnets you're using the generate it. A vexing problem. Good Luck!
This is fascinating as heck. I'm imagining the windmill powering a chain of gears that graduate upwards and in turn spin many magnetic discs, heating a large, even area of pipes on a wall or a floor or even suspended in the air above or below the spinning discs of magnets. Free hot water for as long as the windmill spins.
Sub'd. No way I'm going to miss this project. When I was a teen (back in the 1800s I think) in Kansas, I built a windmill rock polisher. It was direct drive -- simply a trailer tire about 1/3 the diameter of a pretty rough, dual-bladed approx 1 meter windmill, hooked directly to the shaft. The grit and the rocks were dumped into the bottom side of the tire. They tumbled there just fine until the rpms got to where the rocks ceased tumbling and just became fixed to the inside of the tire. This caused me to install flexible blades on the windmill that regulated rpms down to where the rocks remained tumbling in all but the worst wind Kansas could throw at it. Then I became interested in girls and junked the whole apparatus.
Wow! I've never met anyone over 200 years old!
That was a fun video- really explains in basic terms just how induction heating really works which is no doubt very helpful for some viewers new to this . Viewers comments are great too !
It would be interesting to know if this method would work better for your purposes than running a generator and using the current produced to heat an element . Keep up the interesting work !
Both sides of the wheel can be used to generate inductive heating. You are also generating electricity that can be transmitted from the wind mill elsewhere
I would add heat exchanger/accumulator to heat up a water reservoir that would then heat water passing through it. But consider pressure safety. Magnet disc in this setup won't be able to produce enough current for substantial flow heating.
Tim, once you get the windmill and the magnet wheel setup done, consider the following: At zero speed, you have maximum torque on the windmill blades/on the magnets, but you produce zero power. At maximum speed, you will have zero torque being applied to the windmill blades, and zero torque at the magnet wheel. The magnet wheel is happier the faster you spin it, that is not of concern. It is the windmill blades who have this intrinsic bell shaped curve of their power output versus speed. At the ends of the graph, the power is zero. The maximum power point is somewhere in between, at a certain speed. That maximum power point speed varies a little bit with load and wind speed, and it is certainly not in the middle of the graph. Your best bet would be to have the windmill turn at the speed at which in most use cases the windmill will produce maximum power, or at least close to maximum power.
What I want to say with all of this is, make sure that you don't try to operate the windmill at speeds that are far from this perfect sweet spot. If you can't adjust the blade pitch based on load and wind speed (overspeed furling of the blades does not count) then the only way you can affect this operating spot is by setting the reduction ratio correctly (between windmill and magnet wheel). The sweet spot can only be found experimentally. For this, the best thing would be a CVT (continuous variable transmission) in between your windmill and the magnet wheel, and measuring the power output while changing the CVT setting to see where is the maximum power produced, for your average wind speed. But for this experiment, you need constant wind.
After you have found the ideal transmission ratio, a classic fixed ratio transmission can be installed, which is more efficient and cheaper than a CVT. Changing any parameter of the system (diameters, nr of magnets, etc.) will require you to do the experiment again.
See this just like you see an internal combustion engine: the engine of a car is efficient only at a certain speed.
Good luck!
Perhaps you can regulate it with the load using a centrifugal governor; controlling the proximity or exposure of the stationary conductor to extract more or less energy to keep it in the sweet spot.
@@OstrichWrestler That's actually a fantastic idea. It should be simple to implement.
Oh that looks dangerous. 🫣
...but very cool, meaning hot 👍
If the copper was a big round plate with radial cooling fins, you would not need water. It would circulate air and heat it. Apparently aluminum works well with a carbon coating .
@@OstrichWrestler Came here to say this. Glad to see others thinking the same way. The simplest mechanism maybe a ramp shape where the coil is pulled up the ramp by the magnetic "drag" forces. As the coil rises up the ramp It gets further from the magnets and produces less drag. The incline of the ramp plus a return spring should be enough to tune and control the power output.
Very interesting! Much more elegant than rubbing metal plates in my opinion. Your old band saw setup made me smile. The Dutch word tire is "band" 😜
What a brilliant idea from a man who consistently comes up with brilliant ideas.
God bless you, sir. You're very resourceful and what you're talking about. Has many, many applications for making up heat loss at a house when the wind's really blowing or leaves, keeping one room. One room warm enough during these high winds. Which normally the heater will not keep up with.
I love the idea of producing heat with wind power! My suggestion with the inductive heating idea is possibly using a ferromagnetic pole piece on one side to intensify the magnetic field on the top side. My other idea for the goal of using wind power for heating is that you could use your wind turbine to drive the compressor of a heat pump, it could be several times more efficient, and plus it could heat and cool. Of course this would mean you can't build it yourself from raw materials, I love how simple the magnet design is!
Good stuff here. Takes me back trying very hard to teach magnetism and induction to students in the days when Sir Eric Laithwaite was demonstrating his levetating train. Technology went abroad of course. Thanks for posting, take it easy!
Excellent.
Some windings of copper wire and you have a generator!
But heating liquid and pumping them into your home works too.
Really loved this video.
Being a miller myself, I'm really fond of the fact that you want to use a windmill to power this. If you intend to build it with a more classical approach, similar to the diagram in the video, I could give you some advice, should you fancy that.
Good luck with this exciting new project!
That's the plan - but I am limited by budget and regs. I'd be grateful for any info you can share. Would you email me?
@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 Yeah, no problem.
I had a look, but I'm unable to find any contact information. At what adres can I email you?
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299
Yeah, no problem. Do you have an e-mail adres for me?
Can't find one anywhere.
Very impressive Tim, I think you might want to consider some other material for the disk if you increase the speed anymore. I don't think I would trust MDF to last at higher RPMs. Also maybe build a bracket to hold the water pipe above the disk and make it bigger to cover more area, I bet it would heat the water faster. Hope your health improves very soon.
You seen in the one clip he showed someone using an aluminum disk for the base. This is smart as it it tougher and will act as a heat sink to keep the magnets cooler, as neodymium magnets will lose their strength at higher temps.
Well, great. I was going to get a bunch of work done today but I guess instead I'll be gluing magnets in circles and attaching them to various spinning tools in my shop.
THANKS TIM.
How could anyone not like this experiment... Truly great idea and construction to prove the theory... Thumbs Up, post more of your ideas!
I thing a large copper pot with an iron base with a composite metallic can heat to up 1000 degrees . The reverse of this can also be used to cool down to negative temperature as a refrigerator. Thermo electric cooler
Something that nobody seem to do on this induction heating wheels is put a steel backing plate so the magnetic circuit gets shorter increasing the power of the magnets significantly.
You could also make one to be spun by some sort of bicycle where in a grid down situation you could pedal and boil water. Making a fire would be easier though but maybe other purposes may arise?
*@Way Out West - Workshop Stuff*
eg: 5:39 Look more into: *"Halbach array"* (here I would have linked to Wiki, but UA-cam auto-deletes comments with links in)
It's a way to arrange magnets, such that adjacent fields increase the strength of other fields, and if done correctly it also limits the amount of magnetic fields going out on the "back side" of what you're using it in, it will most likely be useful for a full scale version of this heater.
Thanks yes, someone did send me that link. Very interesting - but can you reverse them easily?
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299
Not sure how you mean with "reverse"?
You can always spin the disk / base-plate in the opposite direction, that's no problem.
But to "reverse" the magnetic field itself, you would need to physically change the magnets orientations.
But from your wheel-construction, I assume you want the strongest magnetic fields to be aimed "upwards" away from the "base-plate", so i don't see any need for "reversing" the magnetic field, as that would aim most of the magnetism into the wooden plate instead, where most of the magnetism would be wasted.
If by "reverse" you mean something about the "flips" in the magnetism?
The shape of the magnetic field will be more "spiky" and it uses groups of 3 magnets to make 1 "spike".
The magnet field goes "in" to magnet A, "through" magnet B and "out" from magnet C and back "into" magnet A (and half through E) again.
If you use both sides of the magnet for induction heating then there’s no reason to use a Halbach array, and if you rotate the metal rather than the magnets then there’s no problem with flying magnets.
@@sebbes333 Thanks - so it wouldn't be possible to repeatedly flip the flux then? Or could you do this experiment with the magnets in the Halbach arrangement?
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299
Yes, it would be possible to do this experiment with the Halbach Array, the biggest problem would be the shape of the magnets, as they work better the closer they are & more surface they share, and round shapes are bad at touching each others, idealy they would be almost cubical, but very slightly pie-shaped to fit optimally.
The "flux flipps" are still possible, as each "spike" is made from a "input" & an "output" side.
-->-- ---- ---- --
I like this concept a lot. A full ring of copper pipe circulating water by a shaft driven pump sounds like a more possibly more efficient way to use the wind power than having to first convert the motion to electricity and then back into either heat or motion again to heat and pump water.
You will probably need to find a way to keep the magnets cool when it's running, because the warmer they get the less magnetic they become. And I believe they can become permanently demagnetized if they get hot enough.
A water bath would get the walls wet, maybe a flywheel made of a material that would allow airflow around the magnets. Aluminum. I've never experimented with this so maybe I am incorrect about the magnets heating up. But this is an excellent idea for free green heat.
Well done Tim, cracking proof of concept. You want the heat exchanger within a baw hair of the magnets for max efficiency. All the best mate.
Actually you would want to go in something of a c-shaped Channel of copper tube all the way around the outside edge of the disc and over the magnets.
The beauty of this is, if you use copper tubing, not only can you pass water through it for heating it will also generate electricity!
Now this method seems way better than the metal on metal friction idea. Sure, those magnets aren't cheap but it's a one time cost and seeing how fast they can create the temperature rise, very impressive indeed!
Thanks Tim 👍💪✌
I also hope you get rid of that flu, it's a nasty one you seem to have.
wow the potential of this is very little known thankyou for the physics and your presentation absolutely ginormous
one side used for heating the other side used for generating electricity great stuff my friend
Wonderful concept, and so simple, video is very well done! I can imagine stacking up the magnet discs, affixed to a common shaft, with an aluminum or copper stator disc between each pair of magnet discs. Forced air through the rotating stack would extract plenty of usable heat, depending on scale.
Hi! Here's another idea. Maybe you'll like it too. In some nuclear power plants, when they have excess rotational energy they want to dump, they have big spinning wheels partially submerged in a water tank. The wheels have cups that close around a volume of air when rotating -- and subsequently pull the cups apart when the wheels take them under water. It doesn't boil the water but it heats it up a lot.
If you calculate the amount of wattage used to propel the drill press, and calculate the amount of heat generated, you'll find that it's less efficient than a toaster's resistance heating element. The most efficient system for generating heat is a deep-Earth geothermal bore where for a one-time investment of [a LOT of money] you get essentially free heat forever. Mostly used in places like Iceland where the Earth's crust is very thin, but you can do it anywhere.
i like it Tim...congratulations
Hello Prof
Thanks for sharing your ideas and video. Very interesting and entertaining. Imagine if you had a coil of small diameter copper tubing wound to the same diameter as your circle of magnets. Install it to a fixed point above the magnets and give it a water reservoir and circulation loop. Put a power meter on your motor input and compare the power needed to spin with empty no water tube to a water filled tube and compare how much load it puts on the drill motor vs amount of water and temperature gain.
Even to my tiny bit of understanding of physics, this makes much more sense than the metal plates in water or oil. I hope you feel better soon. Have you been to the Dr? I don't think anyone should have ',flu for a month.
Crossed my mind to try this with hard drive magnets, cool to see that it actually works. If you can bend a long copper pipe to go all around it so that all magnets are affecting copper at all times, I think it would actually be very effective. Could also have a pipe on both sides of the disc as the magnetism will work both ways.
Do you plan on bending an omega-shaped copper pipe as a heat exchanger to cover more of the magnet surface?
At this scale I think it'd be easier for one end to go in straight, and then the other turn sharply up and then meander into going back to the house
EDIT: also, copper doesn't work well with induction, since it's a good conductor. You want electrical resistance for the heat to be emited. A PVC pipe with a carbon steel cable through the middle might be the best? Since it won't be heated on the surface. Or a steel pipe encased in some insulation
I was thinking that too, you could pump the water through the pipe and potentially regulate the speed of the water so that it doesn't get too hot before it leaves the part over the magnet. You could also potentially have two, one on the topside of the wheel and one on the bottom, depending on what (if any?) drag they put on the wheel.
@@owllymannstein7113 making it go through the magnet heated part faster wouldn't change the temperature equilibrium though, as each liter would also emit less heat when going through radiators and would return to the heater warmer than if it went slower. I think a better solution for temperature regulation would be moving the pipe closer or further from the magnet wheel
Huzzah!!! 🎉🎉🎉 That is exciting! Especially if you have your copper pipe all the way around so you are generating heat from the whole circumference, and not just a small fraction of it! I hope you get well soon! 🙏🙏🙏
I've been loving these experimental videos from you, thank you
Get well soon, hope you're feeling well
Neat. The temperature thing is the big issue. One of those laser thermometers will help. A design where the magnets are locked between two sheets is a good start, whether you rotate the magnets or not. One magnet coming adrift with low clearances and high speed will likely rip all the other magnets out in an explosive disaster. Even one at 1000 rpm is undesirable, it could cascade the wheel out of balance. Glue doesn't like heat either. The two sheet thing requires fatter magnets to leave safe clearance. The magnet ring could benefit from cooling fins on one side, but this uses power, but you might be able to duct the warm air somewhere useful, away from the magnets. You could also go full boar and along with heating water on the bottom side use the finned side to generate electricity via other magnets. It all depends on the size of your windmill, you're just harvesting the 'free' power. Good luck, stay safe.
A few thoughts on scaling it up to the windmill. For one, you could have one large power take-off shaft, and then multiple belts coming off to multiple spinning magnetic wheels - much like how the old water powered factories of the early industrial revolution worked. Following on that, you can have more than one pully, and thus get a gear ratio/transmission effect going, so a large slow windmill can translate into small fast disks.
Directly induction heating a house might be a bit hard, but boiling water with induction and setting up a steam plant might work well.
Steam can be pretty scary at the best of times, careful Icarus 💡😂
Actually you don’t need to gear. Just move the plate closer or further away and the inductive load will increase or decrease.
If the wind is light keep the plate further away. If the wind gets faster bring it closer. This should maintain the velocity about the same.
You really are a genius, how you can come up with sumple effective solutions to complex problems always amazes me.
Impressive! Apart from the whole industrial/home scale windmill thing, which is now looking quite practical, you realise of course that this means you could also do a more marketable project (like the car kits) of a bicycle powered travel kettle? :)
LOL...Should have used those "Clearance" wind turbine magnets they have... Ahhhhh "Next Time"..😁!
Great project looking forward to seeing more
Cody's lab did something similar and managed to melt a small bit of metal with it.
For heating water maybe get a thinner disc of aluminium to mount the magnets in and then have a coil of copper pipe on either side of the magnets for doubling the efficiency?, you could connect the two coils and then water will automatically rise up and form a very slow moving pump that can be used to automatically draw water from a container and heat it gradually.
*_"They got stuck somewhere."_*
That one ALMOST *went* over my head...🤭
*EDIT→* I did not realize until just now that I misspelled the word *_"went"_* -- I originally typed *_"when"_* -- in the last line of this comment. I just corrected it.
As a German i've to admit i totaly missed *that one* ...
Nevertheless it's nice to know that there are even more hidden gem's for me in the future when i managed to improve my english. :)
What got me to subscribe a long time ago was a video using the pipe bender. The pipe hit the ceiling, so he moved it outside because "here in Ireland the sky is pretty far up".
I love the humour and enthusiasm in these videos.
That was a Great pun😂😂
@@patrickmihajlovic4112I also missed that one. Haha.
@@patrickmihajlovic4112 mr ohio sayint: im in jigiling
8:44 Yes, that was my question, does it matter which polity side is placed?
You could look at building a hallbach array as it concentrates a magnetic field on a single side allowing for use of less powerful potentially cheaper magnets, or just fewer
So interesting, isn't it?
Yep! You could also consider spinning the metal thru some stationary magnets and dripping water onto the metal. Then you could put a magnet above and below to get a very strong field. I have a stationary bike like this and it can get quite warm.
I love where you mind is at comming up with actual viable solutions to home heating. Love it!!
incredible, i wonder if you could do some calculations based on the volume of water you heared and the time it cost, to see if you could really heat up your house with this! but i'm pretty astonished that it works this well already!
So a huge windmill with copper piping and a water tank up top, lower is the shower and bath, the windmill also runs the water pump off a second belt, the induction magnet spinner is fast because it is geared up with a few pulleys and belt from the windmill, then also you use residual wind from the blades to run air across some of the copper pipe for the clothes drier, hair drier, and of course the washing machine uses the water pump and pulley belt drive.
This gives me an idea, you could in theory make a forge and foundry with those magnets. Make it smaller, add gear teeth to the end of the disks and make 4 more
Now that was impressive! I like you style - both in video presentation and in the workshop! Looking forward to seeing the next episode too. Thanks very much.
Alright, this is probably your most terrifying contraption to date, Tim... And i kinda love it.
I do wonder, assuming your could make the carrier bracket rigid enough to withstand the net pulling force of the magnets, wouldn't a ferris metal like iron or steel be even more efficient? What about the different non-ferrous meals like aluminum, brass/bronze, stainless steel? Non metalic conductors, like graphite? Or! The thickness? Do thicker reservoirs get hot faster because they have more metal to jiggle, or does the added thermal mass contract that? Ooh! So many fun experiments!
Exactly! So many interesting things to do..
Would have never thought of direct induction from a windmill for heating. How brilliant! Looking forward to see further developments.
Amazing!
I would advise a bit of caution though (well I would wouldn't I?). You are having a alternating magnetic field at 600Hz! If any metallic things got near that it could get interesting! ........ By interesting I mean loosing a digit that had a ring on it or less importantly trashing a phone or watch!
Now for the interesting stuff ....... those magnets whirling round affect the metal near them. You can use metallic guides to move that field some distance away should you need to! Also the fact that they affect the metal is a two way street. Inducing an magnetic field will slow the disc down (You get nowt fer nowt as a Yorkshire teacher once said to me). The more you take out the more energy you need to put in to counter this so ........ the number and size of disc you have will not matter too much as the speed you spin it will be determined by the work you get out of it! A bit like gear ratio's.
The faster you "flip the field" the more heat you get out and it is not a linear graph so faster is better ..... sort of!
As you alluded to there is resonance and inductance to bear in mind!
Finally I would point out that those magnets have a field going out of each side and you are only dealing with half of it at the moment (I know, proof of concept). With the use of armatures above and below you can increase the energy output a lot and this can allow you to cut the distance between the magnet and your kit down to a minimum giving you more for less!
I look forward to more videos on this!
THIS is VERY viable to say the least.!! You need to measure that copper with no water in it to see how hot the metal gets by itself. IT should reach 200C easily without the water load on it. That which you've shown eliminates mechanical coupling and bearings turning a generator, then taking the output and coupling it to storage or even directly to a heater as in this case which has losses in the resistive heating elements .
The losses through all of that are appreciable.
IF you use blades under a meter in diameter, you can couple it 1:3 to the wheel and in 30 MPH winds blowing in the winter it will move the wheel at over 2500 RPM !
IF U made steam in a vessel it would push itself into radiators automatically. The next question is how many pounds of steam pressure will a little module like that make. I would say over 3-5 which is way more than needed to pump it around. Once the water reaches 100C and becomes steam, it takes only 1/5 the energy to keep it at it's steam pressure.
THAT is the key point to efficiency in this heating system.
Not only can you pinch your fingers in the blink of an eye, you can also shatter the magnets by letting them come together in an uncontrolled manner.
exactly, please use safety goggle
Done that, 🤦♂️
@@irpyc the man uses a guardless router table. I feel like the safety goggles got kicked under the workbench and covered in dust and cobwebs 20 years ago.
Brillant !!
I foresterie 3 or 4 concentric circles of magnets super-heating your fluid and being useful for several perposes.
Safety Police out in force,
'You'll put your eye out kid."
If you are a moron, sure. You should not play with magnets.
Very good experiment.
Keep in mind that is a tiny volume of water, so a meaning ful water volume will a bit longer to reach such a temperature.
Still, you DID prove that the concept is sound.
Codyslab has the biggest induction heater. He lined a hit n miss engines flywheel with magnets
Very neat to see it in action! Even if this isn't the route you end up going, it's cool to see it tried.
you can put copper around the entire disk instead of at just one spot and that would use more of the flipping magnetic fields instead of just using them where the copper is. Should be more resistance I think.
One of the things you will eventually have to work out is how to adjust the mechanical loading of the windmill as windspeed changes. This is important to extract energy efficiently. The only way I can think of without dramatic changes to your system is to move the copper farther or closer to the spinning disk (rotor).
Genius! Each time, I'm impressed by your unconventionel problem solving!
The copper pipe could be guided in a coil with the same radius of the magnetic ring. To get maximum outcome, one or more rounds over and just as under the magnets. So floating water should have enough time to get hot. Rectangular pipes in the right masurement should give more benefit in plus.
Very interesting project! And better than the heating by friction idea. This magnetic setup seems to be maintenance free!
no, the copper should be one continuous plate, so as to let eddy current form around each magnet, as they do.
they dont make a "current" flowing "along the pipe". they make a small "eddy" directly above a magnetic pole. pipes dont contain enough "conductor" to allow a free path for induced eddy currents... unless you happen to push the magnet THROUGH the pipe. at whic point eddy currents will be produces AROUND the diameter of the pipe itself. the old trick of dropping a magnet down a pipe...
@@paradiselost9946 But, while the magnets are passing , the electrons will jiggle, and the water will heat up. The more time the water has beeing surrounded by jiggling electrons, the more it will heat up. There is no need for a current flowing along the pipe.
@@klausgeiben6608 "the electrons will jiggle"...
ok. care to test this? why not use a GLASS bowl, so the magnetic field "jiggles th electrons" in the water directly? why bother with the conductor at all?
"there is no need for a current flowing around the pipe"...
um, yes there is as the heat is due to resistive heating as that current passes through a conductor... I2R heating... the more current, the more heat. simple.
it isnt "hysteresis" heating. thats what a microwave does with water. utterly different concept.
Nice, thank you! I'm experimenting with Primer Cube/Primer Bowls, David LaPoint's gift to us all.
You can try to measure the drag force on the metal bit you are heating to calculate the heating power transferred. P = (M*N)/9.55 where M is torque in Nm and N is rpm. Torque is r*F (radius of the magnet circle * measured force). Using a bigger metal piece will result on more braking force
Best comment and it needs a pin of awesomeness. 🏆
Thank you kindly
Yes sir that looks like fun to me. ALSO, think brake caliper when it comes to the water manifold, perhaps thin down the MDF on the back side. That same flux is present there.
Here's an idea. instead of having the pipe over a single section of the wheel. you could have a ring that goes over all of the magnets at once, You'll be making heat on the whole thing then!
of course i'm not TOO well versed in this sort of thing but I assume it works.
Cool video. Of course using mechanical rotation to compress air and use the released heat from that would be more efficient - in effect this would be a simple heat pump allowing efficiency /COP above 100%. But this is still v cool
try also a comparison of how fast each rpm setting heats up the water. I think that may be the deciding factor on final efficiency.
Yes! Is going too fast just a waste? Good idea.
Imagin you add another layer of magnets to the bottom of the disk. Then you custom design your water tank so that the tank itself wraps completely around the disk. I’m thinking I’d like a 360 degree brake caliper. Housing all magnet surfaces at all times.