Does Boar Stealing Add or Detract From Age of Empires II?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
- Hey folks! In today's video I break down the boar stealing mechanic from Age of Empires II and try to figure out whether its inclusion makes the game better or worse.
Facebook: / brownbeargaming
Twitter: / brownbear_47
Twitch: / brownbeargaming47
UA-cam: / brownbeargaming
Instagram: / iambrownbeargaming
For those who are curious, I don't steal boars in competitive multiplayer; all boar stealing footage was from playing against the AI or watching replays. That said, as stated in the video, I don't care if you do. - Ігри
There is also no way of executing a boar steal well or poorly as the stealing player. If you have figured out the basic mechanic skill of luring the boar, you can either successfully steal it or mess it up. It's a very black and white game element.
I know Vietnamese is a civ, but my gut reaction to 2:30 was why are Vietnamese players so good at finding the enemy base?
Because the trees speak in Vietnamese.
He's back! Great video, cheers.
Lock Downs and brownbear videos go hand in hand.
I have a bigger issue with tower rushes, but my reasoning is very similar to brownbear.
You can adapt and basically continue to play your own game against a boar steal, and the better player will normally win regardless. With a tower rush, you are forced to play the enemy's game. The counter play is to build your own towers and vil fight. It's a very boring way to play, I would prefer to fight with military.
welcome back Brownbear!
Good summary.
The breakpoints aren't quite as bad as they appear here because you didn't consider the 200 starting food, but nonetheless eating more sheep instead of the second boar means slower early economy and ultimately -120 wood for extra farms.
When the gamble fails in high level play, usually that means not finding the boars in time, so the potential downside is just the lost scouting time, not the HP loss. At a high level where multi-tasking and micro are not a concern attempting a steal feels like a net positive in the long term, but as you said due to uncontrollable variance it doesn't seem like a mechanic that adds depth to the game.
Great video. Cheese strats can turn casual players away from a game. Just look at every other multiplayer game. Once only a small few people do it the game won't die at least.
Not allowing any scout to lure any boar removes the ability to lure your own boar with your own scout. Although niche this is a potential strategy, particularly on Arena. If you want to eliminate boar laming (or significantly nerf it) I suggest introducing a max aggro range for boars. Once a boar crosses this limit (set from their coordinates when they are initially attacked) the boar will immediately return to their starting position (using the same behaviour when a boar is out of visibility range of a luring scout). This range should obviously be large enough so you can always lure your boar to your TC but small enough so the enemy can never lure your boar to their TC.
7:45 "to put it simple it's just...
.
.
.
.
.
BOARing"
hey! I hope you give us your opinion on the new AoE 4 reveal soon!
It _detrads_ ha
While I disagree with you on your point that stealing boars doest not add anything significant to the game, one thing of note that goes in favor of your argument is that the starting scout is already a special unit with unique mechanics (i.e. autoscouting) attached to it, so how bad can it be to just add one more?
i'd love to hear your opinion on this.
I've grown to dislike the "fog of war" in rts games recently. They are the main source of "luck" in this genere of game. I hate it when a professional game of starcraft ends after 3 minutes because the defending player couldn't find and identify what exactly was being proxied.
Maybe it doesn't add anything on a competitive level. The excitement around a boar steal is undeniable though. There's a reason you are making a video about it, there's an interest. So it adds something for the viewer. Because you never know how it will turn out. The tension the steal creates is great for viewers of the game. Also as a player, it's a tense moment that feels great if it gets rewarded. Also, as mentioned before giving the weaker player a chance to even out the odds through taking risks, make the games more exciting to watch. So if you end up removing it might be more comfortable for pro players who don't have to fear that they will lose due to laming but it might make the game more boring for the viewers. Just check how many UA-cam clicks boar steals get.
I know little about AoE2, but your argument seems to be missing some pieces. One player's gamble forces the response of the other player gambling as well. Is the game now more interesting as a result of this? Presumably this evens the win rates out a bit - the correct decision for the weaker player would seem to be to force this gamble, since random odds are better than the normal odds they have of facing a stronger player. Also, this video is centred entirely around the strategic aspect of this, but RTS aren't pure strategy. What about the micro aspect? Does it give players more to do in an otherwise-boring early game portion of the game? Is it just fun to perform this action?
If you want to focus on the strategic aspect I think you have a bit more to go in your argument, and you need to address the other non-strategic components as well.
TIL people still cares about this game. Interesting video anyways.
?XD
It’s cheese. Cheese is ok in games. 6 pool and proxy rushes were fine in Starcraft, boar stealing is ok too
that's not an argument.
@@bigsmoke4592 it sort of is. AoE is an old game with a lot of built in cruft and nonsense. Nostalgia and quirks are part of the game. Laming is something you wouldn’t engineer into a new game, but is a part of AoE. More technically, making random exceptions like “scouts can’t attack boars” increases the apparent complexity and inconsistency of the game.
I appreciate Bears well spoken and argued video but come on, we all just know he got boar stolen on his last ladder and is too classy to rage on the Steam forums so here he is 😁
I think it’s fine also as a YOLO strat when you get matched against someone better than you. Of course his point about ladder games wouldn’t really apply there. It needs to cost more. Maybe an attack bonus vs scouts from boars. Or if you attack it with your scout it starts chasing you right away.
Boar sealing is not the same as 6pool / proxy rushes. That's an entire commitment to a cheese.
Boar is the same gamble, but either puts you at a disadvantage or an advantage, and the game continues as normal, that's it (Just with a starting food delta). And, it causes one player to be in the dark without any scouting, making the entire game feel like a gamble.
An early SC2 rush completely swaps the opponent into full defensive, cutting off the economy, and trying desperately to survive. It affects the meta because it puts a fundamental cap on how greedy any of your builds can be. It also fundamentally forces scouting. It creates a situation where Pro Games almost never cheese, yet they always scout and never play the greediest opening (2Gate is the most common opening in PvP, instead of 1Gate, even though it almost never matters and 1Gate would've been better, but it's just too greedy).
It makes pro games more enjoyable to watch because of this affect on the meta. Often pros do make subtle adjustments to their gameplay based on what they scouted (i.e., interesting / deep / reactive), but the value of that adjustment is usually less valuable than just letting the scout collect minerals the whole time. But the scout has to be there anyway to check for a cheese, so it works out (You can engage in very nuanced and tiny optimizations due to scouting that's fundamentally forced).
If SC2 Cheese would result in a 200 mineral steal and everything else were to be the same, then it would be similar to laming (And SC2 devs would remove it).
I think laming is kind of enjoyable to watch though, it's not bad, but not nearly as deep and meta-defining as rushes are.
I disagree
Although I find some of your videos interesting, this take is so wrong that it's shocking.
I searched up my name and I was not disappointed