Hi, I just bought a brand new 686 plus deluxe. It came with beautiful wooden grips and I haven’t had any issue. It shoots perfect, it is reliable and accurate. Since nothing is 100%, I suppose you unluckily acquired a bad one? I’m eager to see your update video once you got yours back from S&W. Thx for this honest video.
I've owned them all from 2.5" to 8 3/8". The only problem I ever had was with the Mod 29 Carry-Comp. The ejector rod was loose and I didn't realize the problem so it didn't want to lock up. Dumb mistake on my part. I now have a 3", 4" and 6" in the 7 rd config. Love 'em all.
Love my early S&Ws. Those include a 1926 5 screw pre-model 10, no dash model 60, & my 1982 686 I bought in 1982. ALL of the later ones had problems including mis-bored frames. I ordered a JM Custom shop in 45 & it also had barrel alignment issues. Didn’t except it & it went back. I recently bought a CZ-Colt Python & absolutely love it…better than my 68 model I might add.
I have the 3 inch version of this. It had issues as well. S&W ended up replacing the whole frame. They reused the original barrel, cylinder, and internals. Had to re-register the revolver because of the different serial number. Because the state I live in you have to register handguns.
Lol @ your state. I have the 5" and it went out of time and needs a new hand, but that is likely due to the heavier unfluted barrel bearing the crap out of the hand. If you can, get fluted cylinders
I have had the 7” version for about a decade. Hated the grips; my middle finger would get bruised from the trigger guard under heavy recoil. Bought a larger set of decorative wood grips and never looked back. Love this revolver and have only ever had one problem that was easily corrected. Started getting light strikes, single action would ignite rounds, but double would not. Looked problem up online. Just had to tighten hammer spring inside grip. This is one of the few pistols I have that I would never consider selling or trading.
I have a pre-lock 4 inch 686+ that had some minor extractor rod issues which are pretty much resolved. However, I have to say that an older blued model 13 with 3 inch barrel seems to be of a more carefully crafted and solid construction, and more importantly has been entirely trouble-free for 30 years. Could be true that "they don't make them like they used to".
Nice video. You should use blue no scratch pads instead of green ones. I have 2 686 plus. 6" and 3". 6" locked hammer and trigger on 1st range visit. Sent it to S&W for repair. Its good now. 3" has the timing issues after 2 range sessions. Talking to S&W, they gonna send me shipping label. 19, 586, j frames have been good so far. Thanx for the info!
Hey Da Gun Guy, I have the 686 plus not the deluxe. I had a issue with my 686 plus, wouldn't fire the last round. After I removed the side plate and sprayed all the working parts with Hoppe's 2 in one lube cleaner. After I did that I never had that issue again. The double single action was so smooth after I did that my revolver fired all seven rounds with no issue.
When you say it wouldn’t fire, what do you mean? Was it the cylinder catch locking up? I have a Model 57 with this issue, on 3 chambers in double action. Single runs beautifully. Already taken apart and cleaned. Wondering if I need to overdue the lube, or if the double action sear needs a gunsmith.
If you pay close attention to Angel Eyes during the stand off scene at sad hill,he has center fire bullets on his gun belt,but his pistol is a black power cap n ball.
I watched the movie again the other day which got me curious to look up the guns of the movie. A few guns in the movie were made years after the story takes place, so the whole setting is a big mix and match of historical guns. I'm just glad to see that Cimarron Firearms still sells the Tuco Frankenstein gun from the three guns he took apart.
I own the exact same model, I changed the grips they were too thin for my hands, my only problem is it came to me dirty like it was shot more than three times like they are supposed to at the factory. Shoots great and has a slight rattle when I lift it up and level it out my 586 classic did not have that sound. Don’t hear it when the hammer is back though besides that it’s great.
This gun is on sale for 700 bucks today at Palmetto State Armory. Was really wanting one but after comments in forums and watching your video I will just stick with my Ruger gp100 match. I did have to send it to Ruger right away because the barrel was canted.I took it home anyway from my ffl because I got a killer deal(700 new).Ruger rebuilt the gun;new barrel,new hammer,new plunger.It came back beautiful but how it passed qc before I got it I will never know. ..Sucks you have to send your 686 plus deluxe back but revolvers seem to be hit or miss these days. Bought a S&W 340 pd(no key hole)and after the first 11 rounds of .357 it jammed.Jammed again on round 14 (1000 dollar gun,but that means nothing)so its got to go back to S&W...hope thier customer service is as good as Rugers. I also picked up a S&W shield plus and it has to go back because the trigger hinge pin is not all the way in. Meanwhile,out of all my AR builds,Ive only had to send back one out of spec lower..Revolvers are not made like they used to be... :(
@@jasonkerns694 I know so hard to resist. Tax/shipping adds another 50 but still worth it I think. It being a 3-5-7 too right? Sounds like you have more experience than me with wheel gns
@@daaacoach8441 Im holding off,only because I have 2 guns to go back to S&W already lol,and I've never held this model in person. I like the older S&W revolvers a lot more than the newer ones. Only reason I know anything about revolvers is I have older friends that have huge revolver collections but they will be passed down to their kids. I've always carried a j-frame for backup,plus I can shoot it while still in the pocket if I have to( I train to do this very carefully),but I own mainly semi automatic pistols and I love building AR's in various calibers. Good luck with your decision.
I have a 4 inch and 2.5 inch 686+. The triggers were unreasonably stiff in double action. I filled them with snap caps and tried to dryfire them to clean up the bad triggers. It didn't work. I bought wolf spring kits and WOW! What a difference. I sense hand polished them and upgraded to boot grips on the 2.5 inch. And full size rosewood stock on the 4 inch. It's a fantastic pair. I pocket carry the 2.5 inch walking the dog. ( Big man= big pockets! 😂)
Excellent video sir. As a revolver guy myself I've got the same talo edition 5" and I rotate it as my EDC with my Taurus model 66 7 shot 4". If the "zombies" arrive I'm taking my Smith and Wesson 686 plus talo to fight them lol
Thank you for the compliment. I've got to ask: have you had any of the same problems I talk about with the cylinder or hammer? or did I genuinely just get an outlier gun?
@@DaGunGuy Honestly I haven't had any problems with mine, however my cousin and a friend of his had crooked barrel issues on their revolvers. Thankfully S&W fixed both.
I have the 686 plus Talo with a 3 inch barrel. I have s little over 3000 rounds through it,.. The only problem I had was with the ejector rod backing out. I put some blue lock tight on the threads and haven’t had a problem since.
Your cylinder isn't fit right with your gun. Because of this, the breech face is coming into contact with the brass cases, causing friction that wont let you close or rotate the cylinder
The fluting makes enough difference to desire them even though it’s not too much of a difference. My 4” 686 no dash is my favorite revolver in my safe. I liked your review and commentary!
Bought one of those for myself recently. Haven't shot it yet but I don't have any complaints with the trigger in mine. Only thing I can say is I was disappointed with the grips as well. It is wood layered with acrylic, but the acrylic on mine is layered almost as heavily as on yours. On mine I can at least see some of the beautiful woodgrain on the top 1 inch of the right-side grip, but other than that it's just a dull black. I was really hoping it would look more like the ones they had in the pictures.
I got the 3” 686-6 in 2007 new and it’s been accurate/reliable since, I’ve used it to work and as my edc ccw, I fired 100’s of rounds through it, it’s a tank and I fucking love it.
It's not just S&W, post Covid guns have been problematic. It's most noticabke with S&W because they used to have such good quality control. Then, after they went to two piece barrels, their QC slipped, then got better, then came covid, and the gun buying frenzy, and QC went downhill hard. I just bought a new j-frame, a 642, and it is perfect, literally perfect. Maybe because they are so popular but maybe Smith is trying to save their reputation. Anyway, great video and I hope S&W treats you right.
I bought this exact model in 2021. Mine has been great. Beautiful revolver. I understand your frustration though. $1000 should buy better QC from S&W. My grips are noticeably more "wooden" than the grips on yours. Prefer shooting it with rubber grips in any case. I look forward to hearing about your experience with their repairs.
I bought the 6” in February of this year and it did the same things. It’s now July 2nd and I still don’t have it back. It went back 3 times. I’ve only had in my possession for maybe two weeks. They’re replacing it I just found out today. I have little faith in smith
The earlier models don’t have the lock. I believe any “-6” indicates there is a lock. Any “-5” or earlier does not have the lock. I don’t like the lock but I just never use it.
@@danonthedaily It’s a fun range gun. It also really helped be learn double action triggers because you can really see how much you move the barrel while pulling the trigger.
I have quite a few Smith & Wesson firearms. But recently they start making complete garbage. Pistols are ok, but revolvers🤦🏼♂️ it’s something else. I do not have 686 in my collection, so I decided to buy it. Bought two 686 plus and one performance center. All three went back to the dealers. Canted barrels, horrible machine marks. Even Taurus did not make garbage like this back in the day…
Yeah I’ve noticed this huge drop in quality and production with the new Smiths as well. It seems they are putting profit of value these days and I’ll take my money to Ruger from now on. I sold a few new ones and bought Rugers and gosh what a difference. I do like the vintage Smiths and Wesson revolvers.
I had a model 19 classic line gun and the gun functioned perfectly but the finish on it was not great. Scratches in the frame they blued over, one small part of the gun the blueing actually wore off or wasn’t blued I’m not sure I noticed it after I got it home, and the blueing on the barrel was very dull and cloudy looking and the frame was very shiny and mirror like where it was properly blued
I've had really good luck with Smiths as opposed to other brands,. I've found for me, with my machining background, that buying and cutting the extractor star/ratchet to my own liking is what makes modern Smith revolvers so great for me. The parts are readily available, and with a good polish and a properly cut extractor, the Smiths can have an amazingly smooth trigger pull and very tight lockup. I prefer them over the Colts that I've owned. None of this was necessary on older Smiths, but it is what it is. Adapt, improvise, overcome. Some people need to stop being whining wusses, grow some balls, and learn how to fix things themselves. It's really not rocket science. Not saying that Smith quality hasn't gone downhill, but I AM saying that people's intelligence, patience, and persistence seem to be at an all-time low. Just my two cents. Perhaps I was just venting, and I hope "Da Gun Guy" doesn't think that I didn't enjoy his video because I did. Good job.
Mine broke after 26 shots. They replaced everything but the frame and cylinder. Even the barrel was replaced leaving a huge splinter and a big gap to the forcing cone. I'll never trust or buy another s&w.
My buddy bought a 4inch 500 magnum and i have to say the fit and finish was horrendous. There was burr on one chamber extractor which needed filling to allow a cartridge to be chambered. The bead blasting they do on the top strap to reduce glare spilled onto the side of the revolver, not even polished out. And just a poor polish job to boot. There should be better quality control on a new 1500 dollar revolver.
I would not say the gun is finished in stainless steel, I would say the gun is stainless steel and the finish is whatever it is ie polished, mat, or whatever. Not really important just sayin. Nice gun hope they straighten it out.
They are wood and some kind of resin. I personally think they’re good, just ugly. I got some target grips and never looked back even though the stock grips are more ergonomic.
@@grayrider1865 What are you talking about? Altamont makes solid grips. I've never had issues with them aside from appearance. They fit well in the hand, they're durable and never fell apart or loosened, they're not overpriced, they're rugged, etc. And guess who made the set of target grips that I bought which look a lot better?
I myself own a Taurus m66+. Mine is in a 6" barrel. It shoots well & I have had no problem or complaints, great gun.
Hi, I just bought a brand new 686 plus deluxe. It came with beautiful wooden grips and I haven’t had any issue. It shoots perfect, it is reliable and accurate. Since nothing is 100%, I suppose you unluckily acquired a bad one?
I’m eager to see your update video once you got yours back from S&W.
Thx for this honest video.
I've owned them all from 2.5" to 8 3/8". The only problem I ever had was with the Mod 29 Carry-Comp. The ejector rod was loose and I didn't realize the problem so it didn't want to lock up. Dumb mistake on my part. I now have a 3", 4" and 6" in the 7 rd config. Love 'em all.
Love my early S&Ws. Those include a 1926 5 screw pre-model 10, no dash model 60, & my 1982 686 I bought in 1982. ALL of the later ones had problems including mis-bored frames. I ordered a JM Custom shop in 45 & it also had barrel alignment issues. Didn’t except it & it went back. I recently bought a CZ-Colt Python & absolutely love it…better than my 68 model I might add.
I have a 686plus talo edition 3in for two years sir NO PROBLEMS . I GUESS WHAT EVER REVOLER YOU BUY A OFF ONE GETS THROUGH . LOVE MINE 👍🏿🎯👍🏿
I have the 3 inch version of this. It had issues as well. S&W ended up replacing the whole frame. They reused the original barrel, cylinder, and internals. Had to re-register the revolver because of the different serial number. Because the state I live in you have to register handguns.
Lol @ your state.
I have the 5" and it went out of time and needs a new hand, but that is likely due to the heavier unfluted barrel bearing the crap out of the hand.
If you can, get fluted cylinders
@@logangodofcandy lol indeed. Michigan used to be a gun friendly state. Used to be….
I have had the 7” version for about a decade. Hated the grips; my middle finger would get bruised from the trigger guard under heavy recoil. Bought a larger set of decorative wood grips and never looked back. Love this revolver and have only ever had one problem that was easily corrected. Started getting light strikes, single action would ignite rounds, but double would not. Looked problem up online. Just had to tighten hammer spring inside grip. This is one of the few pistols I have that I would never consider selling or trading.
I have a pre-lock 4 inch 686+ that had some minor extractor rod issues which are pretty much resolved. However, I have to say that an older blued model 13 with 3 inch barrel seems to be of a more carefully crafted and solid construction, and more importantly has been entirely trouble-free for 30 years. Could be true that "they don't make them like they used to".
Nice video. You should use blue no scratch pads instead of green ones. I have 2 686 plus. 6" and 3". 6" locked hammer and trigger on 1st range visit. Sent it to S&W for repair. Its good now. 3" has the timing issues after 2 range sessions. Talking to S&W, they gonna send me shipping label. 19, 586, j frames have been good so far. Thanx for the info!
Hey Da Gun Guy, I have the 686 plus not the deluxe. I had a issue with my 686 plus, wouldn't fire the last round. After I removed the side plate and sprayed all the working parts with Hoppe's 2 in one lube cleaner. After I did that I never had that issue again. The double single action was so smooth after I did that my revolver fired all seven rounds with no issue.
When you say it wouldn’t fire, what do you mean? Was it the cylinder catch locking up? I have a Model 57 with this issue, on 3 chambers in double action. Single runs beautifully. Already taken apart and cleaned. Wondering if I need to overdue the lube, or if the double action sear needs a gunsmith.
If you pay close attention to Angel Eyes during the stand off scene at sad hill,he has center fire bullets on his gun belt,but his pistol is a black power cap n ball.
Cartridge conversion?🙄
I watched the movie again the other day which got me curious to look up the guns of the movie. A few guns in the movie were made years after the story takes place, so the whole setting is a big mix and match of historical guns. I'm just glad to see that Cimarron Firearms still sells the Tuco Frankenstein gun from the three guns he took apart.
@@frost8077 👍
Yes, I noticed that my self since I also shoot cap and ball.angel eyes also has the tip of one of his fingers missing.
I own the exact same model, I changed the grips they were too thin for my hands, my only problem is it came to me dirty like it was shot more than three times like they are supposed to at the factory. Shoots great and has a slight rattle when I lift it up and level it out my 586 classic did not have that sound. Don’t hear it when the hammer is back though besides that it’s great.
I just bought a smith 686 plus 6in and it came to me absolutely filthy. So dirty I thought it had been previously owned.
This gun is on sale for 700 bucks today at Palmetto State Armory. Was really wanting one but after comments in forums and watching your video I will just stick with my Ruger gp100 match. I did have to send it to Ruger right away because the barrel was canted.I took it home anyway from my ffl because I got a killer deal(700 new).Ruger rebuilt the gun;new barrel,new hammer,new plunger.It came back beautiful but how it passed qc before I got it I will never know. ..Sucks you have to send your 686 plus deluxe back but revolvers seem to be hit or miss these days. Bought a S&W 340 pd(no key hole)and after the first 11 rounds of .357 it jammed.Jammed again on round 14 (1000 dollar gun,but that means nothing)so its got to go back to S&W...hope thier customer service is as good as Rugers. I also picked up a S&W shield plus and it has to go back because the trigger hinge pin is not all the way in. Meanwhile,out of all my AR builds,Ive only had to send back one out of spec lower..Revolvers are not made like they used to be... :(
Came to this video because I almost jumped on the recent PSA deal. Think I'll just get 686 plus 6in with rubber grips instead.
Came here bc of the sale too, but may still get it…
@@daaacoach8441 I know what you mean. Hard to resist a 686 plus for 700,even if it has to go back to S&W
@@jasonkerns694 I know so hard to resist. Tax/shipping adds another 50 but still worth it I think. It being a 3-5-7 too right? Sounds like you have more experience than me with wheel gns
@@daaacoach8441 Im holding off,only because I have 2 guns to go back to S&W already lol,and I've never held this model in person. I like the older S&W revolvers a lot more than the newer ones. Only reason I know anything about revolvers is I have older friends that have huge revolver collections but they will be passed down to their kids. I've always carried a j-frame for backup,plus I can shoot it while still in the pocket if I have to( I train to do this very carefully),but I own mainly semi automatic pistols and I love building AR's in various calibers. Good luck with your decision.
I have a 4 inch and 2.5 inch 686+. The triggers were unreasonably stiff in double action. I filled them with snap caps and tried to dryfire them to clean up the bad triggers. It didn't work. I bought wolf spring kits and WOW! What a difference. I sense hand polished them and upgraded to boot grips on the 2.5 inch. And full size rosewood stock on the 4 inch. It's a fantastic pair. I pocket carry the 2.5 inch walking the dog. ( Big man= big pockets! 😂)
Excellent video sir. As a revolver guy myself I've got the same talo edition 5" and I rotate it as my EDC with my Taurus model 66 7 shot 4". If the "zombies" arrive I'm taking my Smith and Wesson 686 plus talo to fight them lol
Thank you for the compliment. I've got to ask: have you had any of the same problems I talk about with the cylinder or hammer? or did I genuinely just get an outlier gun?
@@DaGunGuy Honestly I haven't had any problems with mine, however my cousin and a friend of his had crooked barrel issues on their revolvers. Thankfully S&W fixed both.
I have the 686 plus Talo with a 3 inch barrel. I have s little over 3000 rounds through it,.. The only problem I had was with the ejector rod backing out. I put some blue lock tight on the threads and haven’t had a problem since.
Your cylinder isn't fit right with your gun. Because of this, the breech face is coming into contact with the brass cases, causing friction that wont let you close or rotate the cylinder
Thanks for warning me...
The fluting makes enough difference to desire them even though it’s not too much of a difference. My 4” 686 no dash is my favorite revolver in my safe. I liked your review and commentary!
Tyvm!
Bought one of those for myself recently. Haven't shot it yet but I don't have any complaints with the trigger in mine. Only thing I can say is I was disappointed with the grips as well. It is wood layered with acrylic, but the acrylic on mine is layered almost as heavily as on yours. On mine I can at least see some of the beautiful woodgrain on the top 1 inch of the right-side grip, but other than that it's just a dull black. I was really hoping it would look more like the ones they had in the pictures.
Better shoot it, mine had to go back after about 300 rounds.They emailed me a shipping label and fixed it quickly.
I got the 3” 686-6 in 2007 new and it’s been accurate/reliable since, I’ve used it to work and as my edc ccw, I fired 100’s of rounds through it, it’s a tank and I fucking love it.
Yep, the older ones seem to have been made MUCH better!
Damn, I’ve always wanted this specific model.
If you're having issues when its loaded, have you tried different ammo brands? Have you ruled out ammo?
Yep. It’s the gun.
It's not just S&W, post Covid guns have been problematic. It's most noticabke with S&W because they used to have such good quality control. Then, after they went to two piece barrels, their QC slipped, then got better, then came covid, and the gun buying frenzy, and QC went downhill hard. I just bought a new j-frame, a 642, and it is perfect, literally perfect. Maybe because they are so popular but maybe Smith is trying to save their reputation. Anyway, great video and I hope S&W treats you right.
Dammit, now I have to watch my favourite spaghetti western. 😊
I bought this exact model in 2021. Mine has been great. Beautiful revolver. I understand your frustration though. $1000 should buy better QC from S&W. My grips are noticeably more "wooden" than the grips on yours. Prefer shooting it with rubber grips in any case. I look forward to hearing about your experience with their repairs.
I have a 3" 686+. Put in Miculek springs and its insanely accurate.
Still the best❤.
I bought the 6” in February of this year and it did the same things. It’s now July 2nd and I still don’t have it back. It went back 3 times. I’ve only had in my possession for maybe two weeks. They’re replacing it I just found out today. I have little faith in smith
Can you order a version without the locks? Or should I get another manufacturer revolver?
The earlier models don’t have the lock. I believe any “-6” indicates there is a lock. Any “-5” or earlier does not have the lock. I don’t like the lock but I just never use it.
If the Cylinder doesn't close or Open easily maybe the ejerctor rod is Loose.
I own all three.3 inch, 5 inch, and 7 inch. All 686+. Al with the un-fluted cylinder.
Do you like the 7 inch one?
@@danonthedaily It’s a fun range gun. It also really helped be learn double action triggers because you can really see how much you move the barrel while pulling the trigger.
@@mikelewis809 thank you. I’m thinking of getting the 7 in over the 5 in or the other 686 6 inch
love that gun
I have quite a few Smith & Wesson firearms. But recently they start making complete garbage. Pistols are ok, but revolvers🤦🏼♂️ it’s something else. I do not have 686 in my collection, so I decided to buy it. Bought two 686 plus and one performance center. All three went back to the dealers. Canted barrels, horrible machine marks. Even Taurus did not make garbage like this back in the day…
Yeah I’ve noticed this huge drop in quality and production with the new Smiths as well. It seems they are putting profit of value these days and I’ll take my money to Ruger from now on. I sold a few new ones and bought Rugers and gosh what a difference. I do like the vintage Smiths and Wesson revolvers.
I guess I don't buy that many brand new, but I have plenty of newer production revolvers and only one has a canted barrel.
Smith has been making poor quality handguns recently. Poorly machined.
If CZ bought colt; maybe Glock should buy smith then
For a decade
I had a model 19 classic line gun and the gun functioned perfectly but the finish on it was not great. Scratches in the frame they blued over, one small part of the gun the blueing actually wore off or wasn’t blued I’m not sure I noticed it after I got it home, and the blueing on the barrel was very dull and cloudy looking and the frame was very shiny and mirror like where it was properly blued
I BUY OLD S&W PISTOLS SHIM THEM IF NEEDED AND DRIVE ON SO FAR NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH OLD -2 AND OLDER EVOLVERS
I've had really good luck with Smiths as opposed to other brands,. I've found for me, with my machining background, that buying and cutting the extractor star/ratchet to my own liking is what makes modern Smith revolvers so great for me. The parts are readily available, and with a good polish and a properly cut extractor, the Smiths can have an amazingly smooth trigger pull and very tight lockup. I prefer them over the Colts that I've owned. None of this was necessary on older Smiths, but it is what it is. Adapt, improvise, overcome. Some people need to stop being whining wusses, grow some balls, and learn how to fix things themselves. It's really not rocket science. Not saying that Smith quality hasn't gone downhill, but I AM saying that people's intelligence, patience, and persistence seem to be at an all-time low. Just my two cents.
Perhaps I was just venting, and I hope "Da Gun Guy" doesn't think that I didn't enjoy his video because I did. Good job.
Mine broke after 26 shots. They replaced everything but the frame and cylinder. Even the barrel was replaced leaving a huge splinter and a big gap to the forcing cone. I'll never trust or buy another s&w.
I just picked up a “used” but never fired 686-6 plus for a whopping 594 dollars on consignment at my local shop 😀😀😀😀
My buddy bought a 4inch 500 magnum and i have to say the fit and finish was horrendous. There was burr on one chamber extractor which needed filling to allow a cartridge to be chambered. The bead blasting they do on the top strap to reduce glare spilled onto the side of the revolver, not even polished out. And just a poor polish job to boot. There should be better quality control on a new 1500 dollar revolver.
They are plastic because there is two half's to the grip. There's a joint right through the middle.
good 357 Python
Your cylinder was improperly fitted
I would not say the gun is finished in stainless steel, I would say the gun is stainless steel and the finish is whatever it is ie polished, mat, or whatever. Not really important just sayin. Nice gun hope they straighten it out.
I have the 5" and the grips suck
true dat!
take the grips off and look at the underside of them - I think. you'll find they are wood. just finished darker than typical as shown in your pic.
I had similar grips they felt like glued sawdust. I tossed them.
They are not glued sawdust. They are epoxied (glued) layers of ash wood. 90% cheap light wood, 10% plastic
They are wood and some kind of resin. I personally think they’re good, just ugly.
I got some target grips and never looked back even though the stock grips are more ergonomic.
@@grayrider1865 What are you talking about? Altamont makes solid grips. I've never had issues with them aside from appearance. They fit well in the hand, they're durable and never fell apart or loosened, they're not overpriced, they're rugged, etc.
And guess who made the set of target grips that I bought which look a lot better?
Talo
Looks cheesy to me!