I used to jump into my car and drive somewhere to shoot photos with my yashica. Now petrol is expensive, film is expensive so I'll jump on my bike and shoot digital. :P
As a young teen in the early 1980s, I used to do jobs for my neighbors so that I could afford to buy film and flashcards for my Kodak Instamatic. And then there was the cost of processing, which was inexpensive compared to today's prices, but still a high cost for a kid who was getting paid $10 for a job that took all day to finish. But back then the joy I experienced when doing my photography was worth the sweat of picking rocks in a farmer's field on a hot summer's day. Fast forward to 2022, and I'm back shooting film. The film and processing are more expensive, but relatively speaking, less so than when I was a kid scraping together coins to buy film. I must say that every time I buy a roll of film, I'm thankful that it's still there, and in my opinion it will only stay there if I'm willing to continue to sacrifice a bit to partake in a pastime that has given so much to me...
I am getting so frustrated with the ever increasing price of films! It was jawdroppping to see 6 euro for a roll of kodak ultramax 400 (36ex) that I bought 2 years ago, comparing to 14 euro now! and you have to count yourself lucky to find it! It's just ridiculous! With the hype around film photography, the labs are also trying to increase the prices as well. I know a small local shop run by an old guy who still sells it in reasonable prices but all other shops/labs have gone crazy with their pricing! 12 euro for kodak colorplus? Excuse me!
There is another problem: to actually produce film stocks, a company needs skills that aren't taught anymore. Factories close simply because people grow old and sometimes nobody can replace the engineers and technicians.
Absolutely, same goes for camera repairs. In my hometown there are three places that already shut down because there's literally nobody who's able to repair vintage cameras.
I totally agree, and it's sad that so many people think this is just corporate greed. But of course, a lot of todays film shooters started with film when the prices were artificially low to compete with digital. Currently film has reached what should be concidered "normal" prices. And, as long as there is demand for film, I believe this is where the prices will stay. "Back in the days" you didn't shoot a whole roll in a day. A roll of film maybe lasted a month, or at least a few weeks.
Film is officially a luxury now. The only way that prices come down is competition, but the barriers to entering that market are so high, that I doubt we will see any new manufacturers.
If we are really honest with ourselves we will come to the conclusion that there is actually no really good reason to shoot film - except that we like to shoot film. So yes, film is really a luxury product. Personally I'm fine with that. I just hope prices don't get to much out of control. In my opinion the bigger problem is: how long will film be produced at all?! Where will new machines from from? Where will new lab worker come from? What happens if environmental laws got more strict? Why should anyone invest in a business with such high risks? So instead of complaining people should enjoy it as long as it last... :-)
Maybe that's a good thing? After all taking photos isn't a luxury anymore: literally anyone can take photos with a digital camera. Film is turning into a niche, something more special, perhaps? Curious to see how things develop ..
I have heard from a Kodak employee that Kodak has nearly tripled production in their Rochester plant. Maybe this will have an effect on prices in time.
I'm constantly confused by the expectations film shooters have about prices and availability. Going forward, film will be priced like a luxury product because IT IS a luxury product. Almost every person alive, including in the world's poorest countries, has a smartphone with a digital camera in their pocket. Film is great, and also absolutely, utterly unnecessary. I'd say it's like lobster or caviar, but those provide nutrition. It's more like champagne. Trying to make film affordable and accessible compared to digital would be like trying to make vinyl records affordable compared to digital streaming: not only would that be impossible, attempting it wouldn't even make sense. Kodak and Fuji are businesses, not charities. If people are unwilling or unable to buy a niche product at high prices, then why should they expect companies to keep making such a product? I'm just happy Kodak are still making and selling film. If anything, I'm concerned their latest price hike wasn't enough, and I welcome the next one - it'll mean they'll be in production for another year. If they literally tripled the price of Portra tomorrow, I'd still buy it. If you're interested, you can read their 2021 year end annual financial report - it was released a week ago. It's all public. Eastman Kodak worldwide net profit for 2021 was a very modest $24 million. That's coming off a $541 million loss in 2020 (around a $700 million loss in 2011 was enough to send them into 2012 bankruptcy). Their Advanced Materials and Chemicals division (what consumer and motion picture film comes under) lost $6 million in 2021 during the so-called "analog resurgence". Of course they're raising prices. They're not even making any money. Go to forums like reddit and you'll see attitudes that make no sense. People actually spend money on old EXPIRED film then turn around and complain that manufacturers are discontinuing film stocks and raising prices. That's like complaining about your local mom-and-pop stores closing down when you only shop on Amazon. Pay for it or lose it...
There is a more nuanced look at this issue. Kodak raising prices to stay afloat - great if they have to that’s the price of business. But they’re pricing themselves out of the range of people who are their market. There aren’t many new film shooters above say 35, most are younger. Those people can’t afford price hikes, they’re already the poorest cohort of consumers. It’s not entitlement that they should want cheaper prices, it’s a necessary condition that a huge proportion of film shooters get into and continue shooting, they’ll just stop otherwise. This isn’t just an issue of ‘oh well those people can stop and people are willing to lay can continue’ because film has issues of scale. They have to produce and sell a huge amount so that it is worth the resources it takes to run the factories. There’s a baseline amount they have to produce - if they don’t sell those units they expire and represent wasted expenditure by the company. They can’t scale down production to the point they can satisfy a few select people buying a few rolls a month at huge prices, they have to sell all of the huge quantities that their factories produce. There are no small scale bespoke film producing companies. It wont be that film will be for people willing to pay, if it prices out too much of the market or reduces their consumption enough such that the units sold is so low they can’t sell enough to hit the baseline units to run their factories, film goes away for everyone, even if people paid extraordinary prices. It’s all well and good that you would pay triple the price for portra, you probably represent 1% of film shooters who would. I’ve been shooting film for over 15 years and I wouldn’t continue if that happened.
Hi Nico, another important issue to consider is that technological change has erased thousands of small laboratories and Minilabs from the map, which have disappeared forever. Now, finding an accessible lab both in terms of location and price is extremely difficult, at least in the country where I live. Materials and processes in my opinion have always been expensive, however, we will continue to use them simply for vocation.
Again... you are absolutely right! If we stop buying film out of protest, we lose the film industry. That is a shot in your foot for ya! Thanks for being so clear!
I will not stop buying out of protest, I will just buy less. To the point I will not buy any more film! At the end we arrive at the same place! Even for Die-hard film folks, digital is starting to look very attractive!
Yes, but this IS the problem isn't it, the more expensive the film get, the less we buy, the less we buy, the more expensive the film, so this is a bad trend, and it needs to stop. I think Kodak is trying to cash in as much as possible regardless the consequences this may cause. Sending films to UA-cam influencers for free is THE only strategy they have, it worked, at the moment, but how long will it last, Kodak doesn't really care. How a great company fall, this is it!
Maybe, maybe not .. What'll happen is this: the people that really buy film because they need to and they depend on it, they'll be annoyed but will continue buying it. Sometimes they won't even have to pay for it because specific projects might get funding or similar benefits. On the other hand, the people that use film "for fun" or because it's a trend, they might stop using it. So probably the demand will balance out. I've already seen a lot of people ditch film (again) and adopt digital cameras (once again) ..
@@doyoudevelop I think the people use film "for fun" are making the sales boom, not the few "professionals", it's a big mistake cutting the casual users off. I will admit, hipsters buying a Leica 6 and use it as luxury accessories do not count, they don't shoot nearly as much. I have been shooting film for about 20 years, I do have a few digital cameras, but my film cameras are never left out reach, the price hike pushes me to buy less to none Kodak film stocks but less expensive ones like fomapan, APX etc, this is not a big issue for black and white works, but for color film, it is impossible to buy without considering Kodak, what I don't like is that Kodak has set a bad example, now Fuji will increase their prices as well, albeit the inflation and other reasons. Oh, I shoot 2 to 3 rolls 35mm and 2-3 rolls 120 each month on average, so you see, Kodak pushed me away, I'd imagine there will be alot out there just like me.
@@shenyin9989 Oh absolutely, Kodak and Fuji have completely failed in terms of customer relations! It's a real shame, but like Nico said, we'll see what happens ..
Well, let's take Kodak as an example. Look at the garbage cameras they licence to have their name and logo on them. Those nasty point/shoots, not fun or even a good gateway for film photography, just garbage. Then those pseudo digi/print cameras, utter shite. There are SO MANY affordable used film cameras out there to discover, but when it comes to big brand film, they are just laughing all the way to the bank.
For color I've switched to using Kodak Vision3. I found a lab that can process it then I scan it myself using a DSLR. It's less than half the price of using something like Portra + lab scans. I might look into processing it myself at some point to save even more.
Using wine as your analogy; There is expensive wine and cheap wine, in that case there could be expensive and cheap film. If Kodak wants to be the luxury / expensive analogue option, so be it, fair enough.. but there should be a cheap alternative anyways, otherwise is monopoly...
It's frequently overlooked that realistically, we're returning to the prices film were 40-50 years ago, with inflation. Yes, back then you could buy budget slide film for what equates to
I will limit the use of color film to 10 rolls a year and most will be used in medium format. Everything else will be black and white and by the bulk. My digital DSLR will fill the gap for color. Photography is about the process and not the medium.
Yes and no. There's an argument to be made for both sides, so it really is a matter of ones perspective. But limiting yourself in your creative expression doesn't seem like the way to go. There's still "cheap" film out there, sure it's not the dollar film anymore, you'll have to invest a significant amount more, but you can still get color negative film for under 10 quid. I just scooped 15 rolls of 35mm C200 and Ultramax both for under 10 a piece. I've got 5 more rolls of HP5 heading my way, also below 10. And sure while it was affordable, Portra and 400H were the gold standard for color photography, but that doesn't mean the "budget" options aren't any good. Someone in the general CS said, adapting is the word of the hour and I think he's right. Just don't adapt to high prices like he said, adapt to the "budget" option. It's good film, for a slim coin.
This is 100% a since 2021 issue. Everything was fine until then. I bought Colorplus 35mm at BH for $6.50 in 2020. Now it's $16. This didn't creep up. In one year the whole market went ballistic.
So many aspects here. There is a huge demand for film including those that buy and resell at higher prices, Kodak must continue to pay for the costs of manufacturing (raw materials, machines and labor etc.). So when you look at the demand and the costs, I don’t see Kodak or retailers lowering prices. When it comes to color film, there are very few options left. It really comes down to whether we want to continue to shoot film or not. I am actually seeing prices and demand going up on the digital cameras with analog dials such as Fuji X100 etc. even these 10 year old cameras are climbing in price. I think some are shifting to digital.
I think that you are absolutely correct in that film manufacturers have frozen investment in their ' business '. How often have we heard that the production of the 220 film has stopped because the spooling machine has broken and its too expensive to repair? I still think they need our support if we do not want to experience the ' China Syndrome ' in film photography too, but those companies should also understand that this is just not a one way street. What we should expect is not new emulsions, half price films and all that, we already have more than enough of them, but we do need stability of the market. Unfortunately, I don't buy into this line of thought of we should buy at any price or it will cease to exist. This is nothing but blackmail for a carte blanche to increase prices ad infinitum.
For a quality, cheap colorfilm, use simply the 35mm Kodak Pro Image 100. It's a great compromise, in terms of quality, price and performance (IQ) vs. Kodak Ektar 100, Portra 160.
@@fassie79 I used it for a hell long time, because for the reason it was dirt cheap, and delivered good results. I don't develop myself since the 90's, i don't have a darkroom. Rarely i use Adox CMS 20 (II).
Thanks for keeping it more real than those who complain in unrealistic ways without knowledge of the complexity of production and keeping a business alive.
The fact is that they are available just for rich people. It become something just for wealthy people, and I bet my ass that prices will never really go down, even if they will be able to produce more, to get more acknowledged people and blablabla. Things remain the same forever. If they got to a point where they were able to sell all, for higher prices, they will NEVER EVER LOWER AGAIN. Like is happening with flights. Flights, with this covid situation, become wayyy more expensive because they were selling less of course. Now that pretty much the pandemic has stopped, do you see any lowering of flights prices? No. And you know why? Because keeping the prices high, let the service available ‘only’ for wealthy people. But true is, they get the same amount of money doing like this, so it become an ‘on demand’ thing, just for privileged people. Meaning that films are gonna remain on super crazy high prices, just for wealthy people, that already now can afford to buy a Portra 800 for 25€ each. This being said, I pray all the saints, to be wrong this time, and to see the world change for once.
I think it's a new baseline... That's why I ordered and order when I see a deal. I must say, after shooting 10-15 year old film vs non-expired film, I get better results with the non-expired film. I always used the oldest stuff first, but now I'm going into the newer stuff because it's much better. I had/have a 5-pack of kodak 400vc 220 that I've been holding off on shooting unless special occasions. After the last time I shot it, it was so much "thinner" and "faded" than new film.
people will think I'm crazy but in my honest option after startup costs to get into large format (ie: camera, lenses, lens boards, holders, etc...) I think it's the cheapest format to shoot by far. Reason behind my option is that the entire process is methodical. Everything you do is intentional and the steps are double and triple checked before to actually take a shot. Because of this methodical process I shoot less film but I still get the same percentage of keepers as if I were out walking around with a roll of 120 running and gunning. Obviously there are some limitations that make SLR type cameras more functional is some situations but still, even though 4x5 film is more expensive on the surface, it evens out in the end.
I really don’t care about prices, I just want it in stock! I cannot find 200 iso color film anywhere, and I’m down to my last roll! Gonna be sticking to HP5 for now I suppose.
Always the sane voice in a sea of mostly ill informed hysteria. Most of my conversations with friends around film prices and the future prospects are “if we want to keep using it we have to keep buying it” - this will mean it may become more of a luxury item, we’ll slow down, use the phone as a “photo project notebook” to think about what to use film for in the next few months. Adapt is the word. And if someone rebadges a film and makes it available into different markets applaud them and don’t shoot them down.
To put this in perspective, the prices of everything have gone up- people grumble and complain when milk, bread and toilet paper prices continue to rise, but we buy them anyway. Businesses have to be profitable to survive so I have zero issue with them needed to correct pricing for capital reinvestment to meet surging demand. Furthermore, our currencies around the world have all lost value and buying power since the late 90s and early 2000s. I’m very surprised film companies were able to hold prices low for so long to begin with. I’ll keep buying film at higher prices as I image others will also. We just adjust our expectations. I’m all digital for work and grab film gear when I just want to slow it down and break up the monotony a bit.
as a photographer who only shoots film, i sometimes worry about my future and what it holds with photography, will i eventually have to switch to digital, will my next roll of film be my last before my local development lab shuts down, will i ever be able to buy another pack of pro image 100, it’s questions like these i think about most days, rather then just the price. I’m 16 but i spend most of my checks on film, and development, aswell as printing, I will keep paying the price for it, because I love it so much, but sometimes it’s hard for me to even find film on the shelves.
It has become extremely difficult , or almost impossible, for most of us to keep buying fresh film these days. I see the chance for a real analogue resurgence if a completely new emulsions are manufactured, to break away from the silver based chemo, and to change the paradigm of photosensitive materials. I think this is the only way to save analogue photography.
B&W is not so bad, at least not here in Europe, Ilford is a bit expensive but not crazy, I use it for 135 and 120, for 4x5 I use Foma, buying it straight from Foma is ok, 4x5 50 sheets for 40 Euro/~Dollar, not bad at all, I don't do color but the prices there are a bit crazy.
I was checking portra prices on ebay and thought, wow okay so it costs some money. And I thought, well I heard BW is cheaper, and was surprised to see ilford not costing half. I feel like at 70% of the cost, I'll just shoot colour and BW it in post on the rare occasion that I want BW.
A couple points… film enthusiasts are not going to stop buying film en masse. And with apologies to the other companies you named, Kodak is the only real player in the game now. And having one major supplier of film on the planet is not a good thing, no matter how good the product. An alternative to Kodak’s dominance is needed for the price of film to ever go down. Kodak film sales have been going up roughly 20%+ a year for the past six years. That’s a good thing for film enthusiasts. Kodak has said it needs to increase production, okay, that’s a given, but they chose to fund that by dramatically increasing the cost of a roll of film instead of the traditional method of using a commercial lender to raise the capital necessary to do this. They feel they can do this on the backs of their customers because they are the only game in town. Where else are we going to go? I hope some company rises up to challenge Kodak. I would love to see Fujifilm back in the game. I don’t like being at the mercy of one supplier for anything.
Great video, Nico! You lay the facts clearly for those who don’t understand how the markets work. Let’s hope the film manufacturers can afford to invest in their equipment. 👍🏻🤞
I recently wanted to get into film photography (I had a camera offered to me for free) but I've been looking at the prices for film and developing + scanning aaaand it's just way too much.
yup, the way prices raised in kodak is beyond any comparision, esp when demand is so high now and volumes have increased in the last 4 years continually. This is more like "because I can" vs because i need to.
Thank you for taking the time about this, I need more film I want more film. I like to know what the heck happened to Ultrafine Extreme 120 I only have two bricks left...
But wouldn't the market settle down if it gets more stable again? If the interest increases and more people buy film, doesn't that allow for companies to cut prices and start a healthy downward trend? I understand that there are other factors, like the dwindling work force and expertise, but with interest increasing not just in the shooting of film but the entire process from production to development and scanning increasing and gaining a bigger audience, the market should settle down at some point. A big and healthy customer base, a growing interest among younger people in the production of film, if companies don't get greedy and start looking for the big buck but instead care about a healthy customer relationship, this can only settle down. Or did I miss something?
...or if you are price-sensitive switch to digital and move on, it's still an option. I agree with you. Film prices won't come down unless some people crack the code to DIY a film roll or something like that. So that's the situation right now, if film prices keep rising, fewer people can afford them, especially in the current economic crisis. Fewer people bought film, profit decreased, and the factory shut down. and, there's one really funny comment you mentioned: "oh they're taking our money, they're buying a yacht." No shit, if I know film has no big future (my opinion based on the current situation, you can disagree) and I made a *huge* investment in it, of course, I'll be cashing in. The film market is shrinking, and with high demand and low supply, it's rational to expect nothing less than a price increase. Polarising topic you got here, it's nice hearing other people's opinion on that matter. Cheers.
Expensive prices prevent newcomers from joining. This was originally a period of nostalgia, and manufacturers had the opportunity to expand the market. Many children born after 2000, they are very interested, but such a price is like an invisible wall that prevents most people from participating. Without the injection of fresh blood, it was doomed when it went bankrupt. Only by using the nostalgic trend to get more people to join, and at a price that most people can accept, can it go a long way
Even if film was £2 or £3 per roll, it would still be so much more expensive than shooting digital. I bought a 64Gb SD card the other day for £8 (a reasonably well known brand too) and that holds over 2000 shots. And thanks to technology nearly all of them will be in focus and properly exposed. With a roll of film I’m lucky if I get 10 decent shots and 2 good ones, and that’s even before factoring the costs and risks of processing, and I only shoot B&W. But all those factors were there in the 70s, 80s and 90s when there wasn’t any digital option. But the reason I still shoot film, is partly because I love using my OM-1 but mainly because of the fragility of digital files when it comes to long term storage. I still have my slides and negs from the 70s onwards, I’m not sure my digital photos will still be around in 40 or 50 years (I know I won’t be). Yes, shooting film is a hit in the pocket, but they may be the only photos that will still be around in the not so distant future, so we should make them count, before counting the pennies.
u dont get it. Of all the points given, it has nothing to do with film being economical or more effective than digital. Film is about the love of analogue results, constrains and amazing cameras from the bygone eras an anti-thesis to the instant-now generation.
@@marcuslow3290 What don't I get? I already said that I shoot film because I love using my old cameras. It's not as if I'm a newbie to film, or some hipster following the latest analogue trends. I know the pros and cons of both ways of taking photographs, and costs are always a primary concern for me. I enjoy the whole process of shooting film, and do my own developing and scanning (again, costs - I have more time than money). I shoot both when I'm out. I have analogue and digital cameras hanging from my shoulders. I need digital for the fast turnaround and also because it performs better in colour under the lighting conditions I have to work in, but I always take time out to shoot some black and white film. The Olympus OM-1 I use is a stunning piece of industrial mechanical design, but equally the new digital OM-1 is also an incredible piece of contemporary design that does things I could never do - and wished I could - with its analogue predecessor, although you can't beat the look Kodachrome, and digital will never match it. The reality is, film is expensive, and the costs of the "amazing cameras from the bygone era" are getting out of control due to demand from hipsters with more disposable income than a grasp on reality.
Coffee and a sandwich in town (Edinburgh, Scotland) is going to be about £7 or £10 if you want a cake for pudding. Look at all the people eating in cafes when they don't have to! The average price of a pint of beer in the UK is £4.07. Look at all the people drinking beer when they don't have to! A roll of Delta 400 35mm 36 expo is about £7 or I pay about £5 because I buy bulk and load it myself. I'd expect to double that for colour film. It's a luxury guys. It is fun. It costs the same as everything else. (Unless you shoot 11x14 like Nico in which case you are just mad or an oligarch or both.)
Of course. The thing is that digital fills the needs in almost all the way possible. Beside being cool and affordable (while still looking cool... Ok, Pentax tried, didn't worked very well).
@@RogerHyam Ok, I'm calling for a beating but ... Sorry don't have the ref >< Guessing that it means film photography is more real/authentic photography than digital ? I guess it depends, pb is, I don't see how newcomers will be able to notice it anyway. And its super subjective. For me I invested in film in order to have a different shooting experience. Separate from work. But I can't really see myself pushing my students toward it. Make the learning curve way slower. And without newcomers u end up with a lot of posers that can't push the industry forward. Don't know... Feel philosophical tonight... haha
@@lifeinchina-hainan Analogue photography is discretionary. Nobody needs to do it anymore. It is just done for fun or a twisted artistic bent that could be satisfied some other way if needed. So there is no better/worse. Comparison just destroys the joy. It is like saying some people are poser ice cream eaters because they don't eat it right or don't eat enough of it. How will the ice cream industry survive with people like that eating ice cream? Crazy stuff.
@@RogerHyam Fair enough. By posers, I meant the ones that goes into the trend just because its cool but they don't really shoot anything. They bring their camera with them and put it on the table as they talk but don't shoot. They do talk a lot about how much they spent on it... Maybe I'm especially surrounded by those haha. (on a group on 300, we are 4 to actually shoot...) Maybe I overthink it too. Film has its specifics. It gives more importance to a photograph (from a customer point of view). Kind of higher end because of the preparation time. Medium photography is still way cheaper in film. If you do huge print, it is still the way to go. Was just blabbering about its future in general as a medium.
I'm guessing you weren't old enough to remember what Kodak did to film and paper prices back when they discontinued their B&W paper production? They were raising them. FIlm, too. Their argument was that they needed to maintain the profit/overhead in decreasing sales. What they did was drive their sales lower and ultimately, they shut down the B&W paper entirely. Many people moved from Kodak to Ilford or other sources back when that was happening because we all saw what was going to happen to Kodak. Frankly, I'm a bit suprised that they are still around at all after how poorly they managed the transition to digital. Also, you probably don't remember that Ilford used to sell production rolls to people (Photo Warehouse, for example) and they would then re-sell the film and undercut the Ilford prices. This was great for people like me, because I could get ULF sheet film from them in sizes that Ilford never supported. I always thought that Ilford should have left that market to Photo Warehouse and stipulate to them that they were not permitted to make any sizes that were normally-produced sizes in the Ilford catalogue. Leave the specialty stuff to P-W and everyone would be happy. But no, they refused to do that, and it suddenly made film a lot more expensive for the ULF shooters, who were some of the only big shooters left at that time, and that hastened the sales implosion back in the 2000's. 12x20 FP4 went from $4 per sheet (Photo Warehouse) to $12 per sheet when Ilford pulled it back (and then committed to supporting the ULF film sizes after the howls of the ULF shooters). That film is now over $20 per sheet. Things are on the upswing now. I just bought a new (to me) 120 film camera (two, actually); I haven't had a film camera to shoot since about 2007. I plan on shooting more film because it's simply more fun than digital.
i totally agree with you we should consider ourself lucky to have film and we should absolutely support this industry, with the advent of Ai real photography will become a real luxury and film photography ( as it is making a come back among in major photo studio ) should be financed indirectly by the client, i personnaly have a different price for digital and film photography .... i guess it is our role as professional photographers to support this industry because when film is no more we can only lament as no digital camera can reproduce the grain colour and blend light like film does
Some of the cost is in the retail end. They see it flying off shelves and so the hike the price. In 2021 Ektar was under $10 a roll from the distributor. But now on the retail side I can't find it under $20. There's no way Kodak raise their price that much in one year. Also 2/3 of Kodak's business is in motion picture film. Now going forward, I would love to see both Fuji and Kodak make all of their film available in both 120 and 100ft rolls. Or better yet all films in all formats. That would really open up the market and drive more sales. Yes film is going up in price but if you sell it to me the way I want it I will gladly shell out the extra money to get it.
Absolutely, especially because the retail end has to carry more costs. Think about a normal store that doesn't have an online shop and has 2-3 employees. You gotta a sell a lot of Portra to make sure everyone gets a salary at the end of the month.
If you buy their motion picture film, for color film, you can get it at a very reasonable price in bulk. I bought a couple of film reloader units and am about to start doing the Kodak motion picture film in bulk. The price gets very reasonable then. Sure you have to develop yourself and remove the remjet, but from watching lots on UA-cam about that, that doesn't look terribly difficult, so I"m diving into that. For B&W, 100ft rolls of Illford HP5 that I usually shoot if you roll it yourself again, gets like into the $5 or so a roll range...I might even try the Kodak B&W motion picture XX film... So, if you want Kodak, and you see that 2/3 of their film sales is motion picture film, then well...it stands to reason you might want to shoot that same film for stills to get a good price. For my MF 120 film, well, you just gotta pay the price. Strangely, I often seem to find 120 film cheaper than the 35mm version of the same stuff at times....strange.
@@doyoudevelop Absolutely, people don't seem to understand overhead cost and slow sales equal higher prices. Retail stores have bills and salaries they need to pay and they only make a few film sales weekly some people get creative and some raise prices. Another problem is when film is out of stock, that can cause an absents of sales and can hurt the bottom line. Its very complex.
Agree, based on what I saw in Taiwan,my country or elsewhere in Asia, I can tell you that it is crazy that many young "photographers", I don't think that most of them are photographers cause they shoot films like normal customers back in 90s lol. So that crazy thing is that people buying films, a lot and that's pretty much the market here in Asia, they don't care whether this film is expensive as hell or not, they just shooting all the day. Although that's kind of sad to people like me who think they just wasting those films, but from the aspect of market, if people doing this everywhere, maybe that price of film really goes down, at least faster than we thought?
I wonder how many people that buy multiple bricks of film the moment those hit the shelves, are really going to use it for photos, and not resell at inflated price
It’s a comfortable option, whether you freeze the film to sell later or just to keep the stock fresh; which is what I do. I had enough insight to buy stock that now a days would be considered cheap. I still have a brick of (old)Acros; to me the new stock Acros II is not the same film. In my case I don’t have to fear not being able to develop B+W film. But also, I was aware that Kodachrome would loose all access for developing. Only I couldn’t decide what to shoot that I didn’t think was frivolous use of the film. As a result, I still have six rolls of Kodachrome 25 (KM135-20) still in my freezer. I was always amazed at digital camera shooters rattle off twenty or thirty shots in a blink of an eye. I select my shots and if there is something around or behind the shot that I find confusing or distracting and I can’t maneuver around it, I won’t take the shot. If I find an interesting location and I have my tripod available I’ll set up the shoot and wait for the moment before flipping the shutter. Or take as many multiple exposures in different positions when I find interesting and decide which shot I like from my proof sheet. But taking twenty shots of a tree, car or building to me is just a waste of film. Maybe in ten years time, I’ll be able to make a profit selling that Kodachrome 25 to a museum.😬
In your last statements you are talking about said said businesses that they need the money to re-invest, but so far none of those statements are true at all. Anyone can go to Kodak’s website and lookup their financial SEC filings and discover that they invest pretty much nothing in their film production division. This is not a speculation but a fact.
Whatever the reasons for price increases it's becoming really hard to justify the cost of color 35mm. Inflation, demand, blah blah blah I take the exact same pictures on my paid-for D750. There's just nothing to justify the delta between "free" digital and approaching $1/picture for color 35mm. "But bro you can bulk load Vision!" Why put that much work into 35mm? Better use of time to focus on larger formats and the darkroom where you can get something objectively different from digital.
I was at over $3/click on Portra 120 shooting at 6x6 when factoring in lab fees but no prints. Instax is 3-4x *cheaper* than that 😯 *It didn’t make any economical sense.* I can dial up the grain on a Fuji film simulation, add a Cinebloom 5% or 10% filter, and *nobody* knows it’s not film on social media.
Sure, film has gotten more expensive since I last shot film back in the 2000s. But my budget has gotten bigger too. Anyway if you account for inflation the 80s and 90s were kind of a bubble of low film prices. The prices we're paying now are closer to what our grandparents and great-grandparents paid.
I am pretty much done shooting color stock altogether. I moved from 4x5 to 8x10 and Ektachrome is only available in short supply from leftovers on freestyle. I used to shoot 4x5 Provia at $90 a box which was a huge difference from the $55-60 Ektachrome. Now the Provia is $130 a box. No way. Fujifilm loves to discontinue stocks and blame it on demand, why would anyone buy $130 boxes nowadays? It’s ridiculous. 8x10 Provia is now $400. No freakin way. Time to learn tri color carbro…
look at it this way: it can be worth it, depending on the gadgets you use and then the total cost over time! I'm shooting with a Mamiya 645 Super with 3 lenses and some accessories which I bought for $1,300. If I as an amateur shoot 20 films a year, it'll cost me $400, with that I'll hit the break even in 3 years compared to an equivalent digital set (a full frame imo with 3 prime lenses)... So idk if it's still plausible or dumb... anyhow I'll enjoy shooting medium format film for 3 years! I know there are some flaws to this way of thinking, but yolo!
From what I see, the demand came back because its cool and affordable. Remove the affordable, u stick with cool. Problem with cool photographers is that they carry they cameras more than they shoot (I saw you smiling). I shoot digital for work and come into medium photography because its affordable... And can shoot in a drastic different way. If It comes to it. Ill just go back to full digital. Main worries is that the learning process will be way too expensive for newcomers. Shooting professionally, my main concerns were the focus and the composition (and that fact that I fixed my mamiya myself). The ones that started with me, but not as skilled... They do get sour when their entire film are lost. My guess is that smaller companies will pop and fill the gap. (already started with GP3 in China, heard there is something like that in east Europe too...produce cheap roll for ok quality) . I don't mind the whole definition and color stuff, if I want perfect I rent a 100MP camera. Just want something fun to play with. By the time I will want to shoot my work on film, the cost of the film would be negligible...
Since I started shooting film again. The price has nearly almost doubled...Making me reconsider my options.. I still prefer the process of film photography but when will it end.. Very few places offering reductions even expired film is hardly an option.. Shooting themselves in the foot if prices continue to rise. I understand the complexity and resources needed to make film but for the average Joe it's not looking good for the future either way. And I'm only shooting black and white. Colour film is definitely not viable
those who understand the intrinsic value of film will always continue to buy into the medium. purely going off speculation but i feel that the industry will always remain regardless if the film 'hypebeasts" suddenly decide to jump off the film bandwagon
Film companies can’t survive off a trickle of people buying film for a high price, the entire industry is built around huge scale of production. They can’t cheaply produce a few rolls and sell them at higher prices, if they switch the machines on they have to pump out huge numbers, all of which costs. All the fiom producers have companies designed around huge production numbers, it’s always been this way. They used to give cameras away so that people would come back for film. They may be able to rejig their production lines to produce smaller batches at low cost but there hasn't been much evidence of that in the last 20 years happening.
While I will continue to shoot film I doubt that I will be buying that much color. As the prices go up for both the film and developing of color I will do more B/W that I can bulk load and do the developing myself. I’ll still shoot color but not as much as I used too. What should be of real concern should be the loss of choices in emulsions from Kodak and FujiFilm and the sometimes very small production runs. God forbid if you shoot LF. 4x5 color anything is ridiculous and don’t even think about using 8x10 or larger.
I have been buying and shooting film since the late 70’s. Honestly it doesn’t seem anymore expensive than it ever has been. I don’t shoot film like I was shooting Digital. Always a little slower more thought less clicks
I have decided to stop shooting colour in 35mm. I can’t justify the price for the image quality. Now it’s only for medium format and higher and for my main work.
Honestly I wonder if it would be good for Fuji to spin off their straight up film stuff. It's complicated since they obviously want to keep the instant film stuff in their buisness, but it's seemed to work well for Kodak to have a separate company fart around with film. That way if Kodak Alaris goes bankrupt, the main company can continue. Maybe Fuji could do something similar.
The problem is that for me 25-30e for roll of 35mm with processing was already a luxury, but with this new prices it became unsustainable. I am not complaining because there are still really awesome film for great price (thank you Ilford
Kodak won't go bankrupt, I guess that they make most of their money with digital photo labs today. I think that if the people who buy film start to be fewer, they will decide to simply stop producing the "cheaper" lines like their gold200 and raise the prices of the remaining lines even further.
I’m 14 and just got into film photography (35mm) and Kodak ColorPlus 200 is about £10 (AAAAAAAAAA) But what makes even worse is I saw a video from 2019 about film and the person in that video said that ColourPlus200 is £2 bruh 😭😭😭
SmarterEveryDay subió ayer un vídeo sobre película. Visitó la fábrica de Kodak en Rochester. Una maravilla. Explica el proceso de fabricación. En nada subirá los 2 vídeos restantes. El vídeo dura 1 hora! Es bastante curioso. La explicación es muy buena. Os invito a verlo. Link: ua-cam.com/video/HQKy1KJpSVc/v-deo.html
Personally, I don't think Ilford film is badly priced at all. And while I would be happier with Kodak being a little cheaper, I honestly don't find it stupidly expensive. Don't get me wrong, I'm poor and the prices cut down the amount of film shooting I do, but it doesn't seem any worse to me than when I was a young man in the 90s. I was poor then and had to shoot less than I wanted. I'd certainly shoot less digital if film was cheaper, but honestly I would rather have it be expensive and available than gone.
It are fragile companies, so please charge is with all extra costs if it's needed for them to keep in business. It's better that something is expensive than unavailable. And yes, nice thing you said about CEOs and expensive cars. That's what people see, also with a former boss of mine. But what they don't see that he took an mortgage on his own house in bed years to save the family company (giving work to over 100 people).
My theory is if enough of us buy Kodak Stock - they won’t have to raise their prices every year AND we can get the productivity that they said they’re going to work on. It’s only $3 a stock 😂 It doesn’t hurt trying.
This may be a controversial idea, but isn't film actually somewhat cheaper? I mean I personally don't have so much time to shoot as I would like to and if you conciser drop of value of a modern digital body vs low tens of rolls of films (especially bw) per year.
There is some good news! Kodak has released Kodak Gold 200 in 120 format. It is supposed to be 25% cheaper than Portra. This is great news and hope it will provide a more inexpensive alternative, but somehow I get the feeling despite how many rolls that Kodak produces, there will be shortages and lots of film hoarders marking it up on internet auction sites. That is a huge problem, there are people that are buying film and sitting on it like stocks and cashing in. It still amazes me that sellers can make huge amounts off of one old roll of expired film with unpredictable results.
I wanted to buy a box of 5 today and my shop was already sold out, also they are selling it for the same price as Portra 160, a pro film. I don't know if that's every retailer but I don't see the point there, unless they just ment to say it's cheaper than Portra 400 and 800. Still wanna shoot Gold but not happy about the price or the availability.
Wouldn't it be possible for a small company like Cinestill to buy huge rolls of cine film and remove the outer layer that messes up C41 development and sell it as a cheap color film?
Given Fujifilm's history, do you think they will re-release 400h just like how they discontinued Acros 100 and released New Acros 100? 400h seems like a lot of their film market-share/earnings just to let it die.
Their film earnings are a slice of their business, but not a big one. They make digital cameras, printers, pharmaceuticals, stem cells, etc. So they could drop film and by and large carry on regardless. I'd say it's possible they bring it back, but honestly unlikely.
Lol, no one shot 400H..Every camera store that sells film, is sitting on boxes of the trash. People just felt sad for a few months and went back to shooting a consistent and superior film from kodak. EVERY STORE I walked into that sells film still has fridges and shelves full of pro 400h. It wasn't in demand. Fuji knew that, so they killed it. No one was buying it...Because it's quite simply a crap-tastic-film.
I used to jump into my car and drive somewhere to shoot photos with my yashica. Now petrol is expensive, film is expensive so I'll jump on my bike and shoot digital. :P
Point and shoot are also getting expensive. Soon you'll jump from your rusty bike and start drawing
@@algeria1622 lol true that
As a young teen in the early 1980s, I used to do jobs for my neighbors so that I could afford to buy film and flashcards for my Kodak Instamatic. And then there was the cost of processing, which was inexpensive compared to today's prices, but still a high cost for a kid who was getting paid $10 for a job that took all day to finish. But back then the joy I experienced when doing my photography was worth the sweat of picking rocks in a farmer's field on a hot summer's day. Fast forward to 2022, and I'm back shooting film. The film and processing are more expensive, but relatively speaking, less so than when I was a kid scraping together coins to buy film. I must say that every time I buy a roll of film, I'm thankful that it's still there, and in my opinion it will only stay there if I'm willing to continue to sacrifice a bit to partake in a pastime that has given so much to me...
I am getting so frustrated with the ever increasing price of films! It was jawdroppping to see 6 euro for a roll of kodak ultramax 400 (36ex) that I bought 2 years ago, comparing to 14 euro now! and you have to count yourself lucky to find it! It's just ridiculous! With the hype around film photography, the labs are also trying to increase the prices as well. I know a small local shop run by an old guy who still sells it in reasonable prices but all other shops/labs have gone crazy with their pricing! 12 euro for kodak colorplus? Excuse me!
Its $26 here in canada for the same film!
There is another problem: to actually produce film stocks, a company needs skills that aren't taught anymore. Factories close simply because people grow old and sometimes nobody can replace the engineers and technicians.
This is true, so much so that Kodak puts this as a business risk in their SEC filings
Absolutely, same goes for camera repairs. In my hometown there are three places that already shut down because there's literally nobody who's able to repair vintage cameras.
how do we fix this?
@@user-zl5gi8sv7u You dont........ No one will create a new business making roll/sheet film.
@@doyoudevelop That is another major problem...... evetually film cameras will be very very difficult to get repaired.
I totally agree, and it's sad that so many people think this is just corporate greed. But of course, a lot of todays film shooters started with film when the prices were artificially low to compete with digital. Currently film has reached what should be concidered "normal" prices. And, as long as there is demand for film, I believe this is where the prices will stay.
"Back in the days" you didn't shoot a whole roll in a day. A roll of film maybe lasted a month, or at least a few weeks.
Film is officially a luxury now. The only way that prices come down is competition, but the barriers to entering that market are so high, that I doubt we will see any new manufacturers.
If we are really honest with ourselves we will come to the conclusion that there is actually no really good reason to shoot film - except that we like to shoot film.
So yes, film is really a luxury product. Personally I'm fine with that. I just hope prices don't get to much out of control. In my opinion the bigger problem is: how long will film be produced at all?! Where will new machines from from? Where will new lab worker come from? What happens if environmental laws got more strict? Why should anyone invest in a business with such high risks? So instead of complaining people should enjoy it as long as it last... :-)
Maybe that's a good thing? After all taking photos isn't a luxury anymore: literally anyone can take photos with a digital camera. Film is turning into a niche, something more special, perhaps? Curious to see how things develop ..
Black and white film is still super affordable
Barriers to entry, be them as they may, are still incomparable to digital photography for high quality digital gear
@@AeromaticXD True.
Nico's News Service! This isn't an opinion piece, it's straight up truth! Nico is telling it how it really is!
I have heard from a Kodak employee that Kodak has nearly tripled production in their Rochester plant. Maybe this will have an effect on prices in time.
I'm constantly confused by the expectations film shooters have about prices and availability. Going forward, film will be priced like a luxury product because IT IS a luxury product. Almost every person alive, including in the world's poorest countries, has a smartphone with a digital camera in their pocket. Film is great, and also absolutely, utterly unnecessary. I'd say it's like lobster or caviar, but those provide nutrition. It's more like champagne. Trying to make film affordable and accessible compared to digital would be like trying to make vinyl records affordable compared to digital streaming: not only would that be impossible, attempting it wouldn't even make sense. Kodak and Fuji are businesses, not charities. If people are unwilling or unable to buy a niche product at high prices, then why should they expect companies to keep making such a product?
I'm just happy Kodak are still making and selling film. If anything, I'm concerned their latest price hike wasn't enough, and I welcome the next one - it'll mean they'll be in production for another year. If they literally tripled the price of Portra tomorrow, I'd still buy it. If you're interested, you can read their 2021 year end annual financial report - it was released a week ago. It's all public. Eastman Kodak worldwide net profit for 2021 was a very modest $24 million. That's coming off a $541 million loss in 2020 (around a $700 million loss in 2011 was enough to send them into 2012 bankruptcy). Their Advanced Materials and Chemicals division (what consumer and motion picture film comes under) lost $6 million in 2021 during the so-called "analog resurgence". Of course they're raising prices. They're not even making any money.
Go to forums like reddit and you'll see attitudes that make no sense. People actually spend money on old EXPIRED film then turn around and complain that manufacturers are discontinuing film stocks and raising prices. That's like complaining about your local mom-and-pop stores closing down when you only shop on Amazon.
Pay for it or lose it...
Well said.
There is a more nuanced look at this issue. Kodak raising prices to stay afloat - great if they have to that’s the price of business. But they’re pricing themselves out of the range of people who are their market. There aren’t many new film shooters above say 35, most are younger. Those people can’t afford price hikes, they’re already the poorest cohort of consumers. It’s not entitlement that they should want cheaper prices, it’s a necessary condition that a huge proportion of film shooters get into and continue shooting, they’ll just stop otherwise. This isn’t just an issue of ‘oh well those people can stop and people are willing to lay can continue’ because film has issues of scale. They have to produce and sell a huge amount so that it is worth the resources it takes to run the factories. There’s a baseline amount they have to produce - if they don’t sell those units they expire and represent wasted expenditure by the company. They can’t scale down production to the point they can satisfy a few select people buying a few rolls a month at huge prices, they have to sell all of the huge quantities that their factories produce. There are no small scale bespoke film producing companies. It wont be that film will be for people willing to pay, if it prices out too much of the market or reduces their consumption enough such that the units sold is so low they can’t sell enough to hit the baseline units to run their factories, film goes away for everyone, even if people paid extraordinary prices.
It’s all well and good that you would pay triple the price for portra, you probably represent 1% of film shooters who would. I’ve been shooting film for over 15 years and I wouldn’t continue if that happened.
True to a certain extent but Kodak also needs competitors producing cheap film otherwise people will be put off.
Spot on!
If digital does not kill film, high prices will
Hi Nico, another important issue to consider is that technological change has erased thousands of small laboratories and Minilabs from the map, which have disappeared forever. Now, finding an accessible lab both in terms of location and price is extremely difficult, at least in the country where I live. Materials and processes in my opinion have always been expensive, however, we will continue to use them simply for vocation.
Again... you are absolutely right! If we stop buying film out of protest, we lose the film industry.
That is a shot in your foot for ya!
Thanks for being so clear!
I will not stop buying out of protest, I will just buy less. To the point I will not buy any more film! At the end we arrive at the same place! Even for Die-hard film folks, digital is starting to look very attractive!
@@raphajptube buy less is good! But never stop shooting film! Although it is expensive... hang on it will get better in the end!
Did it ever happen ? In any industry ? Nope ... The pb is the scale and offer of that industry. That's all. Where there is a need, there is a market.
smarter everyday is making a series on how kodak makes their film in rochester. Only the ESTAR base manufacturing is up but its INSANE. worth a watch
I was going to pin it on the comment as soon as I hit a computer. Its all insane, people think film is simple to make
@@NicosPhotographyShow I always knew it was complex. But I didn't quite understand the scale of complexity and prescision there is.
I watched the first episode. I wonder how many other film companies use Kodak's film base.
The manufacturing process is very specialised.
i watched that and now i cant believe that film can be affordable at all. seems very complex
Yes, but this IS the problem isn't it, the more expensive the film get, the less we buy, the less we buy, the more expensive the film, so this is a bad trend, and it needs to stop. I think Kodak is trying to cash in as much as possible regardless the consequences this may cause. Sending films to UA-cam influencers for free is THE only strategy they have, it worked, at the moment, but how long will it last, Kodak doesn't really care. How a great company fall, this is it!
Maybe, maybe not .. What'll happen is this: the people that really buy film because they need to and they depend on it, they'll be annoyed but will continue buying it. Sometimes they won't even have to pay for it because specific projects might get funding or similar benefits. On the other hand, the people that use film "for fun" or because it's a trend, they might stop using it. So probably the demand will balance out. I've already seen a lot of people ditch film (again) and adopt digital cameras (once again) ..
@@doyoudevelop I think the people use film "for fun" are making the sales boom, not the few "professionals", it's a big mistake cutting the casual users off. I will admit, hipsters buying a Leica 6 and use it as luxury accessories do not count, they don't shoot nearly as much. I have been shooting film for about 20 years, I do have a few digital cameras, but my film cameras are never left out reach, the price hike pushes me to buy less to none Kodak film stocks but less expensive ones like fomapan, APX etc, this is not a big issue for black and white works, but for color film, it is impossible to buy without considering Kodak, what I don't like is that Kodak has set a bad example, now Fuji will increase their prices as well, albeit the inflation and other reasons. Oh, I shoot 2 to 3 rolls 35mm and 2-3 rolls 120 each month on average, so you see, Kodak pushed me away, I'd imagine there will be alot out there just like me.
@@shenyin9989 Oh absolutely, Kodak and Fuji have completely failed in terms of customer relations! It's a real shame, but like Nico said, we'll see what happens ..
@@doyoudevelop This assumes that that film demand is being held up by proffesionals, its not, its mostly amateurs; they'll go down in 5 years tops.
Well, let's take Kodak as an example. Look at the garbage cameras they licence to have their name and logo on them. Those nasty point/shoots, not fun or even a good gateway for film photography, just garbage. Then those pseudo digi/print cameras, utter shite.
There are SO MANY affordable used film cameras out there to discover, but when it comes to big brand film, they are just laughing all the way to the bank.
For color I've switched to using Kodak Vision3. I found a lab that can process it then I scan it myself using a DSLR. It's less than half the price of using something like Portra + lab scans. I might look into processing it myself at some point to save even more.
Using wine as your analogy; There is expensive wine and cheap wine, in that case there could be expensive and cheap film. If Kodak wants to be the luxury / expensive analogue option, so be it, fair enough.. but there should be a cheap alternative anyways, otherwise is monopoly...
Making cheap wine is not so simple either, but still the alternative exists.
It's frequently overlooked that realistically, we're returning to the prices film were 40-50 years ago, with inflation. Yes, back then you could buy budget slide film for what equates to
I will limit the use of color film to 10 rolls a year and most will be used in medium format. Everything else will be black and white and by the bulk. My digital DSLR will fill the gap for color. Photography is about the process and not the medium.
Same here my color film is for medium format and large format.
Photography is 100% about the medium. the medium is the message.
Yes and no. There's an argument to be made for both sides, so it really is a matter of ones perspective. But limiting yourself in your creative expression doesn't seem like the way to go. There's still "cheap" film out there, sure it's not the dollar film anymore, you'll have to invest a significant amount more, but you can still get color negative film for under 10 quid. I just scooped 15 rolls of 35mm C200 and Ultramax both for under 10 a piece. I've got 5 more rolls of HP5 heading my way, also below 10. And sure while it was affordable, Portra and 400H were the gold standard for color photography, but that doesn't mean the "budget" options aren't any good. Someone in the general CS said, adapting is the word of the hour and I think he's right. Just don't adapt to high prices like he said, adapt to the "budget" option. It's good film, for a slim coin.
This is 100% a since 2021 issue. Everything was fine until then. I bought Colorplus 35mm at BH for $6.50 in 2020. Now it's $16. This didn't creep up. In one year the whole market went ballistic.
So many aspects here. There is a huge demand for film including those that buy and resell at higher prices, Kodak must continue to pay for the costs of manufacturing (raw materials, machines and labor etc.). So when you look at the demand and the costs, I don’t see Kodak or retailers lowering prices. When it comes to color film, there are very few options left. It really comes down to whether we want to continue to shoot film or not.
I am actually seeing prices and demand going up on the digital cameras with analog dials such as Fuji X100 etc. even these 10 year old cameras are climbing in price. I think some are shifting to digital.
I think that you are absolutely correct in that film manufacturers have frozen investment in their ' business '. How often have we heard that the production of the 220 film has stopped because the spooling machine has broken and its too expensive to repair? I still think they need our support if we do not want to experience the ' China Syndrome ' in film photography too, but those companies should also understand that this is just not a one way street. What we should expect is not new emulsions, half price films and all that, we already have more than enough of them, but we do need stability of the market. Unfortunately, I don't buy into this line of thought of we should buy at any price or it will cease to exist. This is nothing but blackmail for a carte blanche to increase prices ad infinitum.
For a quality, cheap colorfilm, use simply the 35mm Kodak Pro Image 100. It's a great compromise, in terms of quality, price and performance (IQ) vs. Kodak Ektar 100, Portra 160.
@@fassie79 I have a source in germany, and i can.
@@fassie79 I am using APX 100@200, and Pro Image 100 atm.
@@fassie79 I used it for a hell long time, because for the reason it was dirt cheap, and delivered good results. I don't develop myself since the 90's, i don't have a darkroom. Rarely i use Adox CMS 20 (II).
Well, you can try to "normalize" greed and speculation when you can control demand, like Kodak, or you can consider it a bad thing too.
Thanks for keeping it more real than those who complain in unrealistic ways without knowledge of the complexity of production and keeping a business alive.
NICO DROPPING TRUTH BOMBs!
Definitely appreciate the video and perspective. What *is* up with Ferrania, anyway?
The fact is that they are available just for rich people. It become something just for wealthy people, and I bet my ass that prices will never really go down, even if they will be able to produce more, to get more acknowledged people and blablabla. Things remain the same forever. If they got to a point where they were able to sell all, for higher prices, they will NEVER EVER LOWER AGAIN. Like is happening with flights. Flights, with this covid situation, become wayyy more expensive because they were selling less of course. Now that pretty much the pandemic has stopped, do you see any lowering of flights prices? No. And you know why? Because keeping the prices high, let the service available ‘only’ for wealthy people. But true is, they get the same amount of money doing like this, so it become an ‘on demand’ thing, just for privileged people. Meaning that films are gonna remain on super crazy high prices, just for wealthy people, that already now can afford to buy a Portra 800 for 25€ each. This being said, I pray all the saints, to be wrong this time, and to see the world change for once.
I think it's a new baseline... That's why I ordered and order when I see a deal. I must say, after shooting 10-15 year old film vs non-expired film, I get better results with the non-expired film. I always used the oldest stuff first, but now I'm going into the newer stuff because it's much better. I had/have a 5-pack of kodak 400vc 220 that I've been holding off on shooting unless special occasions. After the last time I shot it, it was so much "thinner" and "faded" than new film.
What year was 400vc?
@@Huginn1000 expired 8/2011 but has been in my fridge or freezer
Did you adjust exposure for the expired films to see if that helped? i.e. the old “overexpose by one stop per decade” rule?
@@danielcolvin1611 I don't remember at this point. I'll shoot the remaining rolls at iso200
people will think I'm crazy but in my honest option after startup costs to get into large format (ie: camera, lenses, lens boards, holders, etc...) I think it's the cheapest format to shoot by far. Reason behind my option is that the entire process is methodical. Everything you do is intentional and the steps are double and triple checked before to actually take a shot. Because of this methodical process I shoot less film but I still get the same percentage of keepers as if I were out walking around with a roll of 120 running and gunning. Obviously there are some limitations that make SLR type cameras more functional is some situations but still, even though 4x5 film is more expensive on the surface, it evens out in the end.
Kodak was always greedy. And that greed made them cease to exist
I understand all you say and agree 100%
All Good points 👍
Film supports a Lot of people working in its production.
Like Nico I have Always used film sparingly it’s
Part of the mindset 🖖
Those companies are gonna keep raising their arbitrary prices.
I really don’t care about prices, I just want it in stock! I cannot find 200 iso color film anywhere, and I’m down to my last roll! Gonna be sticking to HP5 for now I suppose.
The analog resurgence has already passed its peak. Prices will stay high
Always the sane voice in a sea of mostly ill informed hysteria.
Most of my conversations with friends around film prices and the future prospects are “if we want to keep using it we have to keep buying it” - this will mean it may become more of a luxury item, we’ll slow down, use the phone as a “photo project notebook” to think about what to use film for in the next few months.
Adapt is the word.
And if someone rebadges a film and makes it available into different markets applaud them and don’t shoot them down.
To put this in perspective, the prices of everything have gone up- people grumble and complain when milk, bread and toilet paper prices continue to rise, but we buy them anyway. Businesses have to be profitable to survive so I have zero issue with them needed to correct pricing for capital reinvestment to meet surging demand. Furthermore, our currencies around the world have all lost value and buying power since the late 90s and early 2000s. I’m very surprised film companies were able to hold prices low for so long to begin with. I’ll keep buying film at higher prices as I image others will also. We just adjust our expectations. I’m all digital for work and grab film gear when I just want to slow it down and break up the monotony a bit.
I agree but I would say milk, bread, and toilet paper are more of a necessity than rolls of film lol.
as a photographer who only shoots film, i sometimes worry about my future and what it holds with photography, will i eventually have to switch to digital, will my next roll of film be my last before my local development lab shuts down, will i ever be able to buy another pack of pro image 100, it’s questions like these i think about most days, rather then just the price. I’m 16 but i spend most of my checks on film, and development, aswell as printing, I will keep paying the price for it, because I love it so much, but sometimes it’s hard for me to even find film on the shelves.
Oh boy, so you’ve been shooting for 6 months already? Geeez…no idea how you ever gonna adapt to something else, it’s in your veins already.
It has become extremely difficult , or almost impossible, for most of us to keep buying fresh film these days. I see the chance for a real analogue resurgence if a completely new emulsions are manufactured, to break away from the silver based chemo, and to change the paradigm of photosensitive materials. I think this is the only way to save analogue photography.
it does exist, it is called a censor
@@stefaanverlinde9726 It's not called that. :)
@@stefaanverlinde9726 *sensor
B&W is not so bad, at least not here in Europe, Ilford is a bit expensive but not crazy, I use it for 135 and 120, for 4x5 I use Foma, buying it straight from Foma is ok, 4x5 50 sheets for 40 Euro/~Dollar, not bad at all, I don't do color but the prices there are a bit crazy.
I was checking portra prices on ebay and thought, wow okay so it costs some money. And I thought, well I heard BW is cheaper, and was surprised to see ilford not costing half. I feel like at 70% of the cost, I'll just shoot colour and BW it in post on the rare occasion that I want BW.
A couple points… film enthusiasts are not going to stop buying film en masse. And with apologies to the other companies you named, Kodak is the only real player in the game now. And having one major supplier of film on the planet is not a good thing, no matter how good the product.
An alternative to Kodak’s dominance is needed for the price of film to ever go down. Kodak film sales have been going up roughly 20%+ a year for the past six years. That’s a good thing for film enthusiasts. Kodak has said it needs to increase production, okay, that’s a given, but they chose to fund that by dramatically increasing the cost of a roll of film instead of the traditional method of using a commercial lender to raise the capital necessary to do this. They feel they can do this on the backs of their customers because they are the only game in town. Where else are we going to go?
I hope some company rises up to challenge Kodak. I would love to see Fujifilm back in the game. I don’t like being at the mercy of one supplier for anything.
Great video, Nico! You lay the facts clearly for those who don’t understand how the markets work. Let’s hope the film manufacturers can afford to invest in their equipment. 👍🏻🤞
I recently wanted to get into film photography (I had a camera offered to me for free) but I've been looking at the prices for film and developing + scanning aaaand it's just way too much.
In my opinion, Kodak is just capitalizing on their market position..
yup, the way prices raised in kodak is beyond any comparision, esp when demand is so high now and volumes have increased in the last 4 years continually. This is more like "because I can" vs because i need to.
Very true, Nico. Good discussion .KB
Thank you for taking the time about this, I need more film I want more film. I like to know what the heck happened to Ultrafine Extreme 120 I only have two bricks left...
But wouldn't the market settle down if it gets more stable again? If the interest increases and more people buy film, doesn't that allow for companies to cut prices and start a healthy downward trend? I understand that there are other factors, like the dwindling work force and expertise, but with interest increasing not just in the shooting of film but the entire process from production to development and scanning increasing and gaining a bigger audience, the market should settle down at some point. A big and healthy customer base, a growing interest among younger people in the production of film, if companies don't get greedy and start looking for the big buck but instead care about a healthy customer relationship, this can only settle down. Or did I miss something?
...or if you are price-sensitive switch to digital and move on, it's still an option.
I agree with you. Film prices won't come down unless some people crack the code to DIY a film roll or something like that. So that's the situation right now, if film prices keep rising, fewer people can afford them, especially in the current economic crisis. Fewer people bought film, profit decreased, and the factory shut down.
and, there's one really funny comment you mentioned: "oh they're taking our money, they're buying a yacht." No shit, if I know film has no big future (my opinion based on the current situation, you can disagree) and I made a *huge* investment in it, of course, I'll be cashing in. The film market is shrinking, and with high demand and low supply, it's rational to expect nothing less than a price increase.
Polarising topic you got here, it's nice hearing other people's opinion on that matter. Cheers.
Will see prices go down eventually on Chinese made film. I can't see quality film products going down because its a small, niche audience.
How much are you paying for example, a roll of ektachrome where you live? I'm paying about 30 dollars per roll here in Mexico
I live in Finland, we pay 23€ a roll.
$30-40
Expensive prices prevent newcomers from joining. This was originally a period of nostalgia, and manufacturers had the opportunity to expand the market. Many children born after 2000, they are very interested, but such a price is like an invisible wall that prevents most people from participating. Without the injection of fresh blood, it was doomed when it went bankrupt. Only by using the nostalgic trend to get more people to join, and at a price that most people can accept, can it go a long way
Even if film was £2 or £3 per roll, it would still be so much more expensive than shooting digital. I bought a 64Gb SD card the other day for £8 (a reasonably well known brand too) and that holds over 2000 shots. And thanks to technology nearly all of them will be in focus and properly exposed. With a roll of film I’m lucky if I get 10 decent shots and 2 good ones, and that’s even before factoring the costs and risks of processing, and I only shoot B&W. But all those factors were there in the 70s, 80s and 90s when there wasn’t any digital option. But the reason I still shoot film, is partly because I love using my OM-1 but mainly because of the fragility of digital files when it comes to long term storage. I still have my slides and negs from the 70s onwards, I’m not sure my digital photos will still be around in 40 or 50 years (I know I won’t be). Yes, shooting film is a hit in the pocket, but they may be the only photos that will still be around in the not so distant future, so we should make them count, before counting the pennies.
u dont get it. Of all the points given, it has nothing to do with film being economical or more effective than digital. Film is about the love of analogue results, constrains and amazing cameras from the bygone eras an anti-thesis to the instant-now generation.
@@marcuslow3290 What don't I get? I already said that I shoot film because I love using my old cameras. It's not as if I'm a newbie to film, or some hipster following the latest analogue trends. I know the pros and cons of both ways of taking photographs, and costs are always a primary concern for me. I enjoy the whole process of shooting film, and do my own developing and scanning (again, costs - I have more time than money). I shoot both when I'm out. I have analogue and digital cameras hanging from my shoulders. I need digital for the fast turnaround and also because it performs better in colour under the lighting conditions I have to work in, but I always take time out to shoot some black and white film. The Olympus OM-1 I use is a stunning piece of industrial mechanical design, but equally the new digital OM-1 is also an incredible piece of contemporary design that does things I could never do - and wished I could - with its analogue predecessor, although you can't beat the look Kodachrome, and digital will never match it. The reality is, film is expensive, and the costs of the "amazing cameras from the bygone era" are getting out of control due to demand from hipsters with more disposable income than a grasp on reality.
very informative, loved it
Coffee and a sandwich in town (Edinburgh, Scotland) is going to be about £7 or £10 if you want a cake for pudding. Look at all the people eating in cafes when they don't have to! The average price of a pint of beer in the UK is £4.07. Look at all the people drinking beer when they don't have to! A roll of Delta 400 35mm 36 expo is about £7 or I pay about £5 because I buy bulk and load it myself. I'd expect to double that for colour film. It's a luxury guys. It is fun. It costs the same as everything else. (Unless you shoot 11x14 like Nico in which case you are just mad or an oligarch or both.)
Of course. The thing is that digital fills the needs in almost all the way possible. Beside being cool and affordable (while still looking cool... Ok, Pentax tried, didn't worked very well).
@@lifeinchina-hainan Ah but that's synthehol not the real McCoy!
@@RogerHyam Ok, I'm calling for a beating but ... Sorry don't have the ref ><
Guessing that it means film photography is more real/authentic photography than digital ?
I guess it depends, pb is, I don't see how newcomers will be able to notice it anyway. And its super subjective.
For me I invested in film in order to have a different shooting experience. Separate from work. But I can't really see myself pushing my students toward it. Make the learning curve way slower. And without newcomers u end up with a lot of posers that can't push the industry forward. Don't know... Feel philosophical tonight... haha
@@lifeinchina-hainan Analogue photography is discretionary. Nobody needs to do it anymore. It is just done for fun or a twisted artistic bent that could be satisfied some other way if needed. So there is no better/worse. Comparison just destroys the joy. It is like saying some people are poser ice cream eaters because they don't eat it right or don't eat enough of it. How will the ice cream industry survive with people like that eating ice cream? Crazy stuff.
@@RogerHyam Fair enough. By posers, I meant the ones that goes into the trend just because its cool but they don't really shoot anything. They bring their camera with them and put it on the table as they talk but don't shoot. They do talk a lot about how much they spent on it...
Maybe I'm especially surrounded by those haha. (on a group on 300, we are 4 to actually shoot...)
Maybe I overthink it too.
Film has its specifics. It gives more importance to a photograph (from a customer point of view). Kind of higher end because of the preparation time. Medium photography is still way cheaper in film. If you do huge print, it is still the way to go. Was just blabbering about its future in general as a medium.
I'm guessing you weren't old enough to remember what Kodak did to film and paper prices back when they discontinued their B&W paper production? They were raising them. FIlm, too. Their argument was that they needed to maintain the profit/overhead in decreasing sales. What they did was drive their sales lower and ultimately, they shut down the B&W paper entirely.
Many people moved from Kodak to Ilford or other sources back when that was happening because we all saw what was going to happen to Kodak. Frankly, I'm a bit suprised that they are still around at all after how poorly they managed the transition to digital.
Also, you probably don't remember that Ilford used to sell production rolls to people (Photo Warehouse, for example) and they would then re-sell the film and undercut the Ilford prices. This was great for people like me, because I could get ULF sheet film from them in sizes that Ilford never supported. I always thought that Ilford should have left that market to Photo Warehouse and stipulate to them that they were not permitted to make any sizes that were normally-produced sizes in the Ilford catalogue. Leave the specialty stuff to P-W and everyone would be happy. But no, they refused to do that, and it suddenly made film a lot more expensive for the ULF shooters, who were some of the only big shooters left at that time, and that hastened the sales implosion back in the 2000's. 12x20 FP4 went from $4 per sheet (Photo Warehouse) to $12 per sheet when Ilford pulled it back (and then committed to supporting the ULF film sizes after the howls of the ULF shooters). That film is now over $20 per sheet.
Things are on the upswing now. I just bought a new (to me) 120 film camera (two, actually); I haven't had a film camera to shoot since about 2007. I plan on shooting more film because it's simply more fun than digital.
i totally agree with you we should consider ourself lucky to have film and we should absolutely support this industry, with the advent of Ai real photography will become a real luxury and film photography ( as it is making a come back among in major photo studio ) should be financed indirectly by the client, i personnaly have a different price for digital and film photography .... i guess it is our role as professional photographers to support this industry because when film is no more we can only lament as no digital camera can reproduce the grain colour and blend light like film does
Some of the cost is in the retail end. They see it flying off shelves and so the hike the price. In 2021 Ektar was under $10 a roll from the distributor. But now on the retail side I can't find it under $20. There's no way Kodak raise their price that much in one year. Also 2/3 of Kodak's business is in motion picture film. Now going forward, I would love to see both Fuji and Kodak make all of their film available in both 120 and 100ft rolls. Or better yet all films in all formats. That would really open up the market and drive more sales. Yes film is going up in price but if you sell it to me the way I want it I will gladly shell out the extra money to get it.
Absolutely, especially because the retail end has to carry more costs. Think about a normal store that doesn't have an online shop and has 2-3 employees. You gotta a sell a lot of Portra to make sure everyone gets a salary at the end of the month.
Kodak actually just announced Gold 200 in 120 format!
@@AeromaticXD That is absolutely awesome!!!! It's about time, long overdue.
If you buy their motion picture film, for color film, you can get it at a very reasonable price in bulk. I bought a couple of film reloader units and am about to start doing the Kodak motion picture film in bulk. The price gets very reasonable then.
Sure you have to develop yourself and remove the remjet, but from watching lots on UA-cam about that, that doesn't look terribly difficult, so I"m diving into that.
For B&W, 100ft rolls of Illford HP5 that I usually shoot if you roll it yourself again, gets like into the $5 or so a roll range...I might even try the Kodak B&W motion picture XX film...
So, if you want Kodak, and you see that 2/3 of their film sales is motion picture film, then well...it stands to reason you might want to shoot that same film for stills to get a good price.
For my MF 120 film, well, you just gotta pay the price. Strangely, I often seem to find 120 film cheaper than the 35mm version of the same stuff at times....strange.
@@doyoudevelop Absolutely, people don't seem to understand overhead cost and slow sales equal higher prices. Retail stores have bills and salaries they need to pay and they only make a few film sales weekly some people get creative and some raise prices. Another problem is when film is out of stock, that can cause an absents of sales and can hurt the bottom line. Its very complex.
Agree, based on what I saw in Taiwan,my country or elsewhere in Asia, I can tell you that it is crazy that many young "photographers", I don't think that most of them are photographers cause they shoot films like normal customers back in 90s lol.
So that crazy thing is that people buying films, a lot and that's pretty much the market here in Asia, they don't care whether this film is expensive as hell or not, they just shooting all the day.
Although that's kind of sad to people like me who think they just wasting those films, but from the aspect of market, if people doing this everywhere, maybe that price of film really goes down, at least faster than we thought?
I get it. That’s why I havint shot film in an year and bought a house instead.
I wonder how many people that buy multiple bricks of film the moment those hit the shelves, are really going to use it for photos, and not resell at inflated price
valid question
It’s a comfortable option, whether you freeze the film to sell later or just to keep the stock fresh; which is what I do. I had enough insight to buy stock that now a days would be considered cheap. I still have a brick of (old)Acros; to me the new stock Acros II is not the same film. In my case I don’t have to fear not being able to develop B+W film. But also, I was aware that Kodachrome would loose all access for developing. Only I couldn’t decide what to shoot that I didn’t think was frivolous use of the film. As a result, I still have six rolls of Kodachrome 25 (KM135-20) still in my freezer. I was always amazed at digital camera shooters rattle off twenty or thirty shots in a blink of an eye. I select my shots and if there is something around or behind the shot that I find confusing or distracting and I can’t maneuver around it, I won’t take the shot. If I find an interesting location and I have my tripod available I’ll set up the shoot and wait for the moment before flipping the shutter. Or take as many multiple exposures in different positions when I find interesting and decide which shot I like from my proof sheet. But taking twenty shots of a tree, car or building to me is just a waste of film. Maybe in ten years time, I’ll be able to make a profit selling that Kodachrome 25 to a museum.😬
I really like this perspective great video
In your last statements you are talking about said said businesses that they need the money to re-invest, but so far none of those statements are true at all. Anyone can go to Kodak’s website and lookup their financial SEC filings and discover that they invest pretty much nothing in their film production division. This is not a speculation but a fact.
Whatever the reasons for price increases it's becoming really hard to justify the cost of color 35mm. Inflation, demand, blah blah blah I take the exact same pictures on my paid-for D750. There's just nothing to justify the delta between "free" digital and approaching $1/picture for color 35mm. "But bro you can bulk load Vision!" Why put that much work into 35mm? Better use of time to focus on larger formats and the darkroom where you can get something objectively different from digital.
I was at over $3/click on Portra 120 shooting at 6x6 when factoring in lab fees but no prints. Instax is 3-4x *cheaper* than that 😯
*It didn’t make any economical sense.* I can dial up the grain on a Fuji film simulation, add a Cinebloom 5% or 10% filter, and *nobody* knows it’s not film on social media.
Well Kodak just announced to relaunch Gold 200 in 120 format!
Yup, it was on my table while I recorded this
Will never go down… until the craze for film dies then it will tank again
Sure, film has gotten more expensive since I last shot film back in the 2000s. But my budget has gotten bigger too. Anyway if you account for inflation the 80s and 90s were kind of a bubble of low film prices. The prices we're paying now are closer to what our grandparents and great-grandparents paid.
june 3rd i paid 28usd for that stupid 3 pack of fuji. checked today it is 38usd. WHY.
I am pretty much done shooting color stock altogether. I moved from 4x5 to 8x10 and Ektachrome is only available in short supply from leftovers on freestyle. I used to shoot 4x5 Provia at $90 a box which was a huge difference from the $55-60 Ektachrome. Now the Provia is $130 a box. No way. Fujifilm loves to discontinue stocks and blame it on demand, why would anyone buy $130 boxes nowadays? It’s ridiculous. 8x10 Provia is now $400. No freakin way. Time to learn tri color carbro…
Sabes qué está pasando con Fuji? No he podido conseguir rollos y en Moment hice un pedido desde diciembre que no me han enviado por falta de stock
Todo lo que se es que no pinta bien.
@@NicosPhotographyShow I'm going to be so sad if they discontinue their slide films :(
@@NicosPhotographyShow so true. It seems Fuji is moving away from film.
I wonder if Fuji would consider selling their discontinued recipes to some small film start ups
Trust me, people have tried to buy that from them. Japan says no.
look at it this way: it can be worth it, depending on the gadgets you use and then the total cost over time! I'm shooting with a Mamiya 645 Super with 3 lenses and some accessories which I bought for $1,300. If I as an amateur shoot 20 films a year, it'll cost me $400, with that I'll hit the break even in 3 years compared to an equivalent digital set (a full frame imo with 3 prime lenses)... So idk if it's still plausible or dumb... anyhow I'll enjoy shooting medium format film for 3 years! I know there are some flaws to this way of thinking, but yolo!
From what I see, the demand came back because its cool and affordable. Remove the affordable, u stick with cool. Problem with cool photographers is that they carry they cameras more than they shoot (I saw you smiling).
I shoot digital for work and come into medium photography because its affordable... And can shoot in a drastic different way. If It comes to it. Ill just go back to full digital.
Main worries is that the learning process will be way too expensive for newcomers.
Shooting professionally, my main concerns were the focus and the composition (and that fact that I fixed my mamiya myself). The ones that started with me, but not as skilled... They do get sour when their entire film are lost.
My guess is that smaller companies will pop and fill the gap. (already started with GP3 in China, heard there is something like that in east Europe too...produce cheap roll for ok quality) .
I don't mind the whole definition and color stuff, if I want perfect I rent a 100MP camera.
Just want something fun to play with. By the time I will want to shoot my work on film, the cost of the film would be negligible...
Since I started shooting film again. The price has nearly almost doubled...Making me reconsider my options.. I still prefer the process of film photography but when will it end.. Very few places offering reductions even expired film is hardly an option.. Shooting themselves in the foot if prices continue to rise. I understand the complexity and resources needed to make film but for the average Joe it's not looking good for the future either way. And I'm only shooting black and white. Colour film is definitely not viable
You had me at current film companies reinvesting in themselves.
Film is my medium from 120 to 35mm. Do enjoy digital but my best work is in film.
those who understand the intrinsic value of film will always continue to buy into the medium. purely going off speculation but i feel that the industry will always remain regardless if the film 'hypebeasts" suddenly decide to jump off the film bandwagon
Those “hype beats” are the reason film is alive today. They bring volume of sales, film diehards don’t.
Film companies can’t survive off a trickle of people buying film for a high price, the entire industry is built around huge scale of production. They can’t cheaply produce a few rolls and sell them at higher prices, if they switch the machines on they have to pump out huge numbers, all of which costs. All the fiom producers have companies designed around huge production numbers, it’s always been this way. They used to give cameras away so that people would come back for film. They may be able to rejig their production lines to produce smaller batches at low cost but there hasn't been much evidence of that in the last 20 years happening.
People need to STOP BUYING LEICAS, and START BUYING FiLM
While I will continue to shoot film I doubt that I will be buying that much color. As the prices go up for both the film and developing of color I will do more B/W that I can bulk load and do the developing myself. I’ll still shoot color but not as much as I used too. What should be of real concern should be the loss of choices in emulsions from Kodak and FujiFilm and the sometimes very small production runs. God forbid if you shoot LF. 4x5 color anything is ridiculous and don’t even think about using 8x10 or larger.
I have been buying and shooting film since the late 70’s. Honestly it doesn’t seem anymore expensive than it ever has been. I don’t shoot film like I was shooting Digital. Always a little slower more thought less clicks
once my existing rolls runs out, its kthanksbye. new prices are beyond justifications.
Its becoming hard to justify, sadly.
I have decided to stop shooting colour in 35mm. I can’t justify the price for the image quality. Now it’s only for medium format and higher and for my main work.
So what?
We should continue buying film, however they rasing the price???
Honestly I wonder if it would be good for Fuji to spin off their straight up film stuff. It's complicated since they obviously want to keep the instant film stuff in their buisness, but it's seemed to work well for Kodak to have a separate company fart around with film. That way if Kodak Alaris goes bankrupt, the main company can continue. Maybe Fuji could do something similar.
The problem is that for me 25-30e for roll of 35mm with processing was already a luxury, but with this new prices it became unsustainable. I am not complaining because there are still really awesome film for great price (thank you Ilford
Kodak won't go bankrupt, I guess that they make most of their money with digital photo labs today. I think that if the people who buy film start to be fewer, they will decide to simply stop producing the "cheaper" lines like their gold200 and raise the prices of the remaining lines even further.
I’m 14 and just got into film photography (35mm) and Kodak ColorPlus 200 is about £10 (AAAAAAAAAA)
But what makes even worse is I saw a video from 2019 about film and the person in that video said that ColourPlus200 is £2
bruh 😭😭😭
here we go, now it s gold200 in120 and cinestill coming up with 400d... so i guess our film price is making the industry bloom :)
SmarterEveryDay subió ayer un vídeo sobre película. Visitó la fábrica de Kodak en Rochester. Una maravilla. Explica el proceso de fabricación. En nada subirá los 2 vídeos restantes. El vídeo dura 1 hora! Es bastante curioso. La explicación es muy buena. Os invito a verlo.
Link: ua-cam.com/video/HQKy1KJpSVc/v-deo.html
Personally, I don't think Ilford film is badly priced at all. And while I would be happier with Kodak being a little cheaper, I honestly don't find it stupidly expensive. Don't get me wrong, I'm poor and the prices cut down the amount of film shooting I do, but it doesn't seem any worse to me than when I was a young man in the 90s. I was poor then and had to shoot less than I wanted. I'd certainly shoot less digital if film was cheaper, but honestly I would rather have it be expensive and available than gone.
It are fragile companies, so please charge is with all extra costs if it's needed for them to keep in business. It's better that something is expensive than unavailable.
And yes, nice thing you said about CEOs and expensive cars. That's what people see, also with a former boss of mine. But what they don't see that he took an mortgage on his own house in bed years to save the family company (giving work to over 100 people).
I just wanna the Fujifilm FP 100C come back...
Quality over quantity, I agree with you Nico. But what about Ferrania.. ?
My theory is if enough of us buy Kodak Stock - they won’t have to raise their prices every year AND we can get the productivity that they said they’re going to work on. It’s only $3 a stock 😂 It doesn’t hurt trying.
Might be a decent solution.
I hace the feeling that they just went up
This may be a controversial idea, but isn't film actually somewhat cheaper? I mean I personally don't have so much time to shoot as I would like to and if you conciser drop of value of a modern digital body vs low tens of rolls of films (especially bw) per year.
There is some good news! Kodak has released Kodak Gold 200 in 120 format. It is supposed to be 25% cheaper than Portra. This is great news and hope it will provide a more inexpensive alternative, but somehow I get the feeling despite how many rolls that Kodak produces, there will be shortages and lots of film hoarders marking it up on internet auction sites. That is a huge problem, there are people that are buying film and sitting on it like stocks and cashing in. It still amazes me that sellers can make huge amounts off of one old roll of expired film with unpredictable results.
I wanted to buy a box of 5 today and my shop was already sold out, also they are selling it for the same price as Portra 160, a pro film. I don't know if that's every retailer but I don't see the point there, unless they just ment to say it's cheaper than Portra 400 and 800. Still wanna shoot Gold but not happy about the price or the availability.
It’s the same price we used to pay for a 5 pack of Portra 400 a few years ago lol
@@tompoynton yep I checked it out, your right same price we paid for Portra a few years ago. I was thinking this new film would be about 35.00 a pack.
Wouldn't it be possible for a small company like Cinestill to buy huge rolls of cine film and remove the outer layer that messes up C41 development and sell it as a cheap color film?
Given Fujifilm's history, do you think they will re-release 400h just like how they discontinued Acros 100 and released New Acros 100?
400h seems like a lot of their film market-share/earnings just to let it die.
Their film earnings are a slice of their business, but not a big one. They make digital cameras, printers, pharmaceuticals, stem cells, etc. So they could drop film and by and large carry on regardless. I'd say it's possible they bring it back, but honestly unlikely.
no. fujifilm will not bring anything back. Across 100 is just rebranding from ilford.
Lol, no one shot 400H..Every camera store that sells film, is sitting on boxes of the trash. People just felt sad for a few months and went back to shooting a consistent and superior film from kodak. EVERY STORE I walked into that sells film still has fridges and shelves full of pro 400h. It wasn't in demand. Fuji knew that, so they killed it. No one was buying it...Because it's quite simply a crap-tastic-film.
@@Adrian-wd4rn lol
No they won't, even if the possibility comes up
Something in 1970 costing £2 would now be £33.
Something in 1980 costing £2 would now be £9.
Inflation at 3.8% avg
BOE inflation tool