So as I’ve learnt from my previous attempts to upload this Ballade, *something* about it just seems to resist effective interpretation. Nearly all recordings have one of the following problems: - The opening chromatic scale is too literal & arid; - The climaxes are underpowered or superficial (seriously though, the number of recordings where they just come across as virtuoso fluff); - The repetitions/variations of T2 are insufficiently differentiated; - The broken octaves, which have to sound like an expansion of the opening texture, are uneven/limp; - T1* is aggressive & harsh, rather than glowing. And it turns out the solution to all these problems - as Goerner demonstrates - is basically to give the work a couple of more minutes to breathe. Everything about this performance is wonderful - the opening texture is absolutely nailed, the climaxes are as terrifying or warm as needed and actually sound _structural_ and _organic_ in a way no other recording really carries off. And the colour and touch on display here is astonishing; listen to how T2 is handled, for instance. At 7:02 (and especially in the higher register at 7:10) it’s given the softest rendition I’ve heard, as if coming from far away, and is beautifully voiced - the top note of each chord is the only one with bite, so that the other notes form a kind of haze scaffolding it. And in the variant at 10:54 Goerner does something unique too - he lets the notes of each chord slip barely out of sync, and _very_ gently nudges the bottom notes to the fore, conjuring up some wonderful counterpoint (listen carefully from 11:02). One other thing worth mentioning is the passage at 8:45, which really looks on the page like it ought to be a truly special moment in the work (T1 gets its first real harmony, with a developed chromatic texture), but almost always sounds awkward and unbalanced when performed - the broken octaves somehow either sound clumsy and technical, or suffocate the theme entirely. But Goerner gets it just right - the chromaticism creates this lush valley of sound, and the theme sings out of it.
Thank you, i thought exactly the same, every perfomance i have heard until now had one thing that i didn´t like, but Goerner nails it, so thank you. I would recommend you to listen to Jean Dubé rendition but im pretty sure you already have.
I used to think of Liszt as being overly virtuosic and lacking any real substance. But as I’ve dug deeper into his works I can tell that he was an absolute genius who had a great passion for the greats before him and used his talents to do things that had never been attempted before in composition. Truly underrated from that perspective.
@@Zdrange03I can understand that. I do find it very intriguing and I keep coming back to it. It’s extremely progressive and experimental in the opening. It reminds me of something from the 20th century atonal composers. Then it gives way to something more conventional.
@@zenmaster16 Anyone who feels this piece lacks substance its because the pianist played it like abstract music. There's good evidence Liszt had a theme in mind for this piece, a very dramatic and touching story. Once one knows that they can play with real passion to make this piece truly sublime. Check out the video (( Heaven-Storming Liszt: Ballade no 2 in B minor )) Then for an informative bio video (( Franz Liszt: Enigmatic Genius ))
I have the same feeling! Classical music is my main thing, and I can't find anything there that quite reminds me of this passage. What *does* remind me of it, a little bit, is a song by Radiohead called *Pyramid Song*.
OMG I totally agree... it's one of the greatest and most magical moments in music. It feels like Arvo Part, but a hundred years before. A precursor of minimalism - with the added interest that Hungarian and Finnish languages are related in a distant way. And yet - it's over in a flash. Which is why it's so indescribable.
@@ludwiggalaxy4277 UA-cam suggests you the videos you have liked and viewed the most, instead of the most famous ones. If when you search Liszt this video appears, that's because it's your most viewed Liszt video
@Hadrien Everard , pretty much diss agree with you, there are plenty wonderful Liszt pieces that aren’t underrated, HR2 is by far one of the most famous though.
My god, the decrescendo at 9:40 is the most mind blowing i've ever heard. This passage always sounded a little awkward, Volodos just dodges it, but Goerner nailed it. Also the thoughtful pedalling throughout the piece kept it moving. Great upload as always
If only you weren't coming from FFF part with a Rinforzando molto right there going to Mf after that, and if there were an actual diminuendo… Yeah, it would be nice… XD
This is a masterpiece, considering the story behind it and the way it’s trying to tell the story is immaculate, it’s almost like movie music. The themes are incredible. Lizst doesn’t get enough credit for the musical genius he is.
@@Zdrange03 if we believe what Liszt told some of his students about this ballade, this actually depicts the story of Hero and Leander, and I fully agree, you might wanna watch sonata secrets' video about it
The fact that Liszt manages this ballade to be economically and emotionally beautiful is, indeed, out of this world!
4 роки тому+75
I never connected very well with this piece until I heard this recording. MY GOD, it's like I've never heard it before, a completely different work, and now I absolutely love it! The scales at climax, played like a real apotheosis, not flushed and as-fast-as-you-can, with the right amount of time to breathe and feel that powerful lift up. Plus, now I understand the structure of the piece, which makes much more sense and even feels like the little son of the great Sonata in B minor. A real masterpiece indeed!
His recording of the Sonata is similarly a revelation, something one would have thought impossible after so many versions have been issued. But it actually comes up fresh and amazing, like this performance of the Ballade. UPDATE: Just to clarify, I was referring to Goerner's first recording of the Sonata (2007, on Cascavelle); there is now a second one (2023, on Alpha Classics).
I watched this video, put Pyramid Song in my Watch Later. Forgot why it was there, listened to it yesterday. Now seeing this comment, I've come full circle 😱
What do you mean by "textures"? There are some daring harmonies, but if you are talking about pianistic textures, I'd recommend Chopin op. 10, 25 and 28, that will knock you off your feet
Piano solos are definitely one of my favorite classical pieces. Liszt is definitely one name I like to listen to. Since I also play the piano, during my spare time this can be a good reference for me.
Oh my god. I seriously thought no one could top Jorge Bolet, but I stand corrected; this is outstanding. Indeed, you nail it perfectly: They "give the work a couple more minutes to breathe." Thank you for introducing me to this interpretation.
Liszt is the most underrated composer of all times Everyone who says something like "his music is just virtuosity" know nothing, literally NOTHING. He surprased the age and all of his conterporarios!
His tremolos, fortissimo chords (compact and broken) and octaves are quite something! But for my taste, he is rather overrepresented ... the piano concerti and in particular the b minor sonata are masterworks for sure
I *really* hate that most people know Liszt only for his Hungarian Rhapsodies. Honestly, I see Liszt as a truly intricate and musical composer, even when the technical challenges of his music. This, the Years of Pilgrimage, the Transcendental, Concert, and Paganini Études, and the Harmonies Poétiques et Réligieuses are all masterworks. The Hungarian Rhapsodies too, but they are *way too* eaten up by everyone.
I agree but you can say that about any composer really for their most famous pieces and Hungarian rhapsody #2 is though without a doubt an amazing piece or la Campanella
I agree completely. And I would add that the implicit idea of Liszt as a "bits-and-pieces" composer completely overlooks one of his greatest feats in his music for solo piano: organizing the great cycles (four of which you listed) as whole entities. Even a tiny sequence like the Consolations gains so much from being heard complete! This extends even to cycles based on music of other composers, notably Schubert in Liszt's (re-)ordering of the Schwanengesang songs, in which he creates a cycle where none existed before.
I would really recommend listening to Lisista's interpretation of this piece, it's my personal favorite. She pedals the chromatic decrescendo at 9:40 and then KEEPS THAT PEDAL for like five seconds, and it's incredible. It sounds like black smoke seeps into the piece, and the melody becomes a sword cutting through the putrid air. She truly nails the atmosphere of this piece
It hasn’t been mentioned by anyone, but this piece is programmatic music - it’s based off the Greek myth Hero and Leander. The story goes that Leander falls in love with Hero and swims every night across the Hellespont to spend time with her. Hero lights a lamp at the top of her tower to guide his way. One night a storm approaches and the winds blow out the light, causing Leander to drown. When Hero finds out, she jumps off the tower to join him in death. The opening of this piece is like the waves of the sea, and 9:14 is the climax of the piece which is when Leander ultimately drowns. The section that follows ( 10:53 ) is Hero discovering this, and the second and third climaxes beginning at 13:21 shows her despair and her eventual suicide. The two lovers wash up on the shore, joined in death, never to be separated again (14:16).
Liszt was never hesitant about adding explanatory material to the printed editions of his works, witness the etchings and quotes in Year One of the Pilgrimage Years, or the excerpts from Lamartine's poems throughout the Poetic and Religious Harmonies. And of course there are pieces where the additional information is in fact absolutely necessary for understanding the music: f.i. the Two Legends (St. Francis of Assisi and St. Francis of Paola) and the Two Episodes from Lenau's Faust (The Nocturnal Procession and the Dance at the Inn, a.k.a. Mephisto Waltz #1) which both come with lengthy prose or verse prefaces. Then there are smaller "clues," notably the quote from St. John famously inserted partway through the Fountains of the Villa d'Este (Pilgrimage Years, Year Three). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that any published score of the Second Ballade contains a program. So whatever Liszt may (or may not) have said to someone at some point about the inspiration(s) for the piece, he clearly didn't feel it was essential to include it with the music. Thank you.
@@treesny I'll take your word for the fact it was not in any published score: I don't know about that but I'll believe you. But I'm very sure it is based off Hero and Leander. Claudio Arrau studied under Martin Krause, who was one of Liszt's disciples, and he maintained the idea that the Ballade was based off the Greek tragedy. There is a video on UA-cam explaining and analysing it if you're interested!
@cynicxloud Thank you for the information. Incidentally, the story of Hero and Leander is strictly speaking a myth -- not a tragedy, which implies a stage drama. The best-known English-language version is the poem by Christopher Marlowe.
This recording is super interesting. Although Goerner takes it slow here, you can clearly hear all the details. And his control over the pedal is simply astounding!
This analysis has to come along with "Hero and Leander" geek Myth. You can ear the four days that Laeder swims toward his beloved Hero, but in the 4th day he drowns in the storm. Then she threw herself from the tower and at the end they are burried together by the shore in a lover's tomb. That is what 2nd Liszt's Ballade in all about. Claudio Arrau used to refer to this myth also. " is the Greek myth relating the story of (Ancient Greek: Ἡρώ, ; [hɛː.rɔ̌ː]), a priestess of Aphrodite (Venus in Roman mythology) who dwelt in a tower in Sestos on the European side of the Hellespont, and (Ancient Greek: Λέανδρος, ), a young man from Abydos on the opposite side of the strait. Leander fell in love with Hero and would swim every night across the Hellespont to spend time with her. Hero would light a lamp at the top of her tower to guide his way. Succumbing to Leander's soft words and to his argument that Aphrodite, as the goddess of love and sex, would scorn the worship of a virgin, Hero succumbed to his charms and they made love. Their secret love affair lasted through a warm summer. They had agreed to part during winter and resume in the spring due to the nature of the waters. One stormy winter night, Leander saw the torch at the top of Hero's tower. The strong winter wind blew out Hero's light and Leander lost his way and drowned. When Hero saw his dead body, she threw herself over the edge of the tower to her death to be with him. Their bodies washed up on shore together in an embrace and they were buried in a lover's tomb on the shore". 00:00 Day one: Leander Swimming to pass the strait to meet Hero 01:00 First encounter betwen Leandro and Hero. Leandro says "Ich liebe dich" and Hero responds "ich liebe dich". Hero Succumbed and they made love... 02:07 Day two: Leander Swimming towards Hero 03:07 Second encounter betwen Leander and Hero 04:12 Day Three: Leander Swimming in the winter storm but is still able to pass the strait towards Hero 06:06 Third encounter betwen Leander and Hero. 09:10 Day Four: The day Leander drowns 09:09 to 09:42 Leander's drowning (The strong winter wind blew out Hero's light and Leander lost his way and drowned) 09:42 Hero waits for Leander but he didn't manage to pass the strait. She reminds their love affairs... 13:07 to 13:21 Hero threw herself over the edge of the tower to her death to be with Leander 13:22 The lovers are embraiced and buried together by the shore 14:07 Hero reaching Heaven 14:16 Leander and Hero meet together in Heaven for eternity.
Well, I pretty strongly dislike narrative analyses of music, especially if the narrative in question means nothing to me. Greek myth is boring, boring, boring. I also don't know what you mean when you say the piece is "all about" Hero/Leander. Do you mean this is what Liszt had in mind? That's highly contested, since the evidence points to this being based on Gottfried Bürger’s Lenore. But that's beside the point - even if Liszt had Hero/Leander in mind, why should that be relevant for how we listen to this music? I for one deeply love this work without needing to associate it with second-rate Hellenic melodrama. Music is "all about" what the listener perceives in it, full stop. And each generation of listeners should feel free to construct its own narrative associations with music (if it wants to - and I so no particular reason for this, to be honest).
@@AshishXiangyiKumar I see your point but this is not me saying it, it was what Martin Krause (student of Liszt) who said it to Claudio Arrau... So who you will you trust? Your ear or a student of Liszt himself? There is a poem of Leigh Hunt published in 1819 who could also inspire the work. For me Liszt succedes imensly in telling the night swimming of Leander towards Hero, after that you can analise structure, Harmony and so on. In this case you can't analise structure without knowing the tale (it's just pointless)... Arrau is pretty clear about that too and points out all the nights were he swimms, when he drown's etc... Every analysis is important but in this cases the Greek Myth has to come first. Just like in Chopin's ballades you should read Adam Mickiewitz's Conrad Wallenrod, The Pirlgrim, Ondine and The three brothers.
@@andre.vaz.pereira I will trust my ear over everything else, every time. And I include composer intent in "everything else". Perhaps it's different from others, who prefer that their musical reactions are received from the outside. But that's just the way it is for me. I think you like extramusical references, and are just going about insisting other people listen to music the way you do. I don't see why you have to do that.
@@AshishXiangyiKumar I repect that, i aslo like analisis and music as music "itself" or the so called "absolute music". i belive that the concept of "absolute music" is being missplaced in a lot of XIX century composers or works. It's a riddle that seems to be more difficult to solve than the analyses because the references are very dificult to find (or even inexistent). Analysis as a subject came after most of these works and it was in constant mutation. I belive that is what you are trying to look for or just contemplate and there is nothing wrong about it. I just feel this is far from being "absolute music" and the extramusical references from the composer should be considered, thats all. Analasing a greek myth and its influence on the ballade is also content analyses, i don't dissociate the tasks. They should blend, not dissociate.
@@andre.vaz.pereira I can see only two arguments comes from you: 1) "Arrau said that." Ridiculous. 2) "We have to understand the context to understand the piece. Any attempt of ignoring context would lead to a struggle to analyse" Not quite true.
Very fine playing .. the sound is similar to his debut recording of Chopin that was so wonderful .. he's got the right piano and engineer to show off his skills .. his Chopin Sonata #3 could be right up there with Kissin .. don't know this piece well .. thank you so much Ashish for these excellent read-alongs and analyses ..
My acquaintence with classical piano pieces is, by nature of the breadth of that category, quite sparse. I discovered this piece recently and it's slowly captured me as I gain over-familiarity with other Liszt pieces, Liebestraum, Hungarian Rhapsody, Mephiso Waltz. This is yet another whole different feeling and I now finally place it on my mind shelf in proximity to Stravinsky's Firebird. Not in tonality but tone, there is a magical levity, sense of indelible triumph after frenetic, torrential darkness. I will be here for many more listens, bravo!
These analyses themselves are works of art. I must ask, do you use a particular reference? Or do you just listen to the music and write whatever comes to mind?
If it's Bach or Beethoven I usually have some reference works lying about the house which I consult, but almost always I just listen to the piece several times through with the score to figure out what to write (+ do the usual research about dates/origins/versions, although I rarely include this stuff in what I write -- I'm much more interested in music than music history per se.) Sometimes a quick consult of academic databases will turn up useful analysis (often buried in theses for performance studies), but that kind of music-focused research is becoming a lot less popular these days -- the trend leans toward cultural studies or broadly historiographical/conceptual writing (which is fine, just not what I'm after). Plus musicology today tends to discourage expressing aesthetic judgment on quality of work, which is kind of understandable, but not helpful for me. Reasonably often I just find myself in a situation where there's no good reference material at all, so everything is done from scratch. This was the case for both Rachmaninoff sonatas, for instance -- both of them are brilliantly conceived and structured, but no-one appears to pay _that_ much notice.
Truly marvelous, expansive and meditative performance! Thank you for sharing this. This performance makes me realise how closely this piece relates to Obermann's Valley in painting a vast, complex Romantic panorama.
I love this music piece, one of my favourite. I'm a big fan of Giuseppe Andaloro's version for the Busoni competition. It's a little bit slower but so much powerful! Thank you for this upload
Yes, I've never heard this ballade before and that was the first thing that jumped to my mind also! I can see Pyramid Song also being possible, depending on which came first I suppose.
Best performance of all time is Valentina Lisitsa’s on a Bosendorfer with additional low bass notes. She’s able to convey the drowning of the hero at the 2nd climax by letting the low bass notes linger with lots of pedal.
I always read your analysis because they make me understand the piece more. However I noticed one thing with the structure of this piece: the recapitulation starts from 10:17, when T3 is introduced in B, the tonic. Then we have T2 also in B and finally the transformation of T1 and its variations. So it's more like an inversed recapitulation.
The pattern and progression starting around 04:15 , with the right hand playing four-notes chords and descending octaves in the left hand, both in triplets, seems inspired from the first Brahms' Ballade in d minor. Except Brahms composed his ballades in 1854 (source: Wikipedia), i.e., just a year after Liszt composed this Ballade! I don't think that's a coincidence. But maybe those chords are reminiscent of the chords in the last page of the first movement of Beethoven's Appassionata, especially the first, startling chords re-introducing the main theme. I don't think that's absurd, because at 04:42 the left hand plays the same kind of bass from another passage of the Appassionata's first movement: check it out, it's there, bars 134 ff. And it's the same low C repeated in triplets, with occasional longer notes! Now I'm going through the rest of the piece, maybe I will notice something else. Anyway, I don't like this piece, it conveys nothing to me. (sorry for my bad English)
Thank you for uploading this and for your edits. You should use your knowledge to update and refine the wikipedia pages on Transmutation and Transfiguration that Liszt pioneered.
In order to write something like this, you must need like half the piece already in your head for this math to come to be. How on Earth did Liszt do it
Sincere question: why would he have needed to know half of this before he wrote it on paper? Why do you say that he couldn't have developed it all from a small fragment?
@@flyingpenandpaper6119 He prolly did. It was the same thing he did with his 1st Ballade, most of that work is based on an 18 bar, 1 minute Album leaf.
Wonderful playing, thanks for the post Ashish! I really appreciate your breakdown, which from a technical standpoint, is spot on. I think if you added the very morose, and quite frankly terrifying story behind the song, it would make viewers even more deeply appreciate (and be terrified by) the piece even more. My only minor criticism of Goerner's playing (and this is just personal in my part) was how the arpeggio at 5:40 was buried by the main voice. I'll never forget the ELECTRIC feeling down my spine and the accompanying goose bumps from Horowitz's legendary rendition. For comparison: ua-cam.com/video/r39E6LzGoLs/v-deo.html
"I think if you added the very morose, and quite frankly terrifying story behind the song, it would make viewers even more deeply appreciate (and be terrified by) the piece even more." AXK is pretty onto absolute music himself, so yeah.
Wow, tragically beautiful story told by Liszt. Henrik Kilhamn gives a very nice explanation on "Sonata Secrets" channel - apparently this is the story of Hero and Leander and with that in mind this speaks so much deeper
No, you can see there's a subdivision at the beginning of the variation : above is the ossia version which is usually(because here it doesn't look so much) easier and below is the original line that Liszt wrote for this
This one is great, goerner is def my fav, horowitz is also great but doubr he fits that role, i also love the 5 minute long incomplete recording of rach playing this, cziffra is also good
Is it just me, or is the passage at 13:22 in a different place than normal? I could be mistaken, but I remember another recording where the ascending runs took place before that passage.
What happened to the previous uploads of Ballade No. 1 and Ballade No. 2? (I believe they were uploaded to this channel previously). Who are the pianists that played in those previous versions? Thanks for the upload! I'm currently learning this piece thanks to your previous version.
Can we assume this is Nelson Goerner? It is quite a good recording, and takes a more expansive approach that I also prefer. He still rushes the rhythm at 2:47, but it sounds so organic that I don't mind. On a side note, though, I have never heard of this Ballade being analyzed in Sonata Form. Is that your idea or did you find it in a theory article? If so, could you send me the full analysis? Thank you for uploading!
![Wagner/Liszt - Tannhäuser Overture (Audio+Sheet) [Cziffra]](/img/n.gif)
So as I’ve learnt from my previous attempts to upload this Ballade, *something* about it just seems to resist effective interpretation. Nearly all recordings have one of the following problems:
- The opening chromatic scale is too literal & arid;
- The climaxes are underpowered or superficial (seriously though, the number of recordings where they just come across as virtuoso fluff);
- The repetitions/variations of T2 are insufficiently differentiated;
- The broken octaves, which have to sound like an expansion of the opening texture, are uneven/limp;
- T1* is aggressive & harsh, rather than glowing.
And it turns out the solution to all these problems - as Goerner demonstrates - is basically to give the work a couple of more minutes to breathe. Everything about this performance is wonderful - the opening texture is absolutely nailed, the climaxes are as terrifying or warm as needed and actually sound _structural_ and _organic_ in a way no other recording really carries off. And the colour and touch on display here is astonishing; listen to how T2 is handled, for instance. At 7:02 (and especially in the higher register at 7:10) it’s given the softest rendition I’ve heard, as if coming from far away, and is beautifully voiced - the top note of each chord is the only one with bite, so that the other notes form a kind of haze scaffolding it. And in the variant at 10:54 Goerner does something unique too - he lets the notes of each chord slip barely out of sync, and _very_ gently nudges the bottom notes to the fore, conjuring up some wonderful counterpoint (listen carefully from 11:02). One other thing worth mentioning is the passage at 8:45, which really looks on the page like it ought to be a truly special moment in the work (T1 gets its first real harmony, with a developed chromatic texture), but almost always sounds awkward and unbalanced when performed - the broken octaves somehow either sound clumsy and technical, or suffocate the theme entirely. But Goerner gets it just right - the chromaticism creates this lush valley of sound, and the theme sings out of it.
Thank you friend, have a Good Day or night!
Thank you, i thought exactly the same, every perfomance i have heard until now had one thing that i didn´t like, but Goerner nails it, so thank you. I would recommend you to listen to Jean Dubé rendition but im pretty sure you already have.
You've clearly thought a lot about this piece!
Ashish, have you by chance heard Sergei Babayan’s recording of this piece?
Thank you so much my friend for all these wonderful and well-crafted insights! They render the listening experience even more enjoyable!
I used to think of Liszt as being overly virtuosic and lacking any real substance. But as I’ve dug deeper into his works I can tell that he was an absolute genius who had a great passion for the greats before him and used his talents to do things that had never been attempted before in composition. Truly underrated from that perspective.
I do find this piece lacks substance as well 🙄
@@Zdrange03I can understand that. I do find it very intriguing and I keep coming back to it. It’s extremely progressive and experimental in the opening. It reminds me of something from the 20th century atonal composers. Then it gives way to something more conventional.
@@zenmaster16 Anyone who feels this piece lacks substance its because the pianist played it like abstract music. There's good evidence Liszt had a theme in mind for this piece, a very dramatic and touching story. Once one knows that they can play with real passion to make this piece truly sublime.
Check out the video (( Heaven-Storming Liszt: Ballade no 2 in B minor ))
Then for an informative bio video (( Franz Liszt: Enigmatic Genius ))
@@Zdrange03 i think it is better to say that you don't agree with its substance, it is clearly not a purely virtuosic piece
@@haomingli6175 i didn't say it was a virtuosic piece.
1:00 I can't even put into words how this little progression makes me feel
I have the same feeling! Classical music is my main thing, and I can't find anything there that quite reminds me of this passage. What *does* remind me of it, a little bit, is a song by Radiohead called *Pyramid Song*.
OMG I totally agree... it's one of the greatest and most magical moments in music.
It feels like Arvo Part, but a hundred years before. A precursor of minimalism - with the added interest that Hungarian and Finnish languages are related in a distant way.
And yet - it's over in a flash. Which is why it's so indescribable.
Raidohead
I feel reminded of Ravel Le Gibet from Gaspard
@@jsh31425reminds me of Schubert's late Sonata in A major, the first movement has a similar chord progression
My favorite Liszt piece, an underrated Masterpiece, even for Liszt.
@@ludwiggalaxy4277 UA-cam suggests you the videos you have liked and viewed the most, instead of the most famous ones. If when you search Liszt this video appears, that's because it's your most viewed Liszt video
Honestly pretty much Evert Liszt's piece ever is underrated (except Hungarian Rhapsody no 2)
@Hadrien Everard , pretty much diss agree with you, there are plenty wonderful Liszt pieces that aren’t underrated, HR2 is by far one of the most famous though.
I'm just learning this, every friend of mine knows and adores this marvelous piece🥂😋🤠
listen to alkan morceaux op 15 no 2
My god, the decrescendo at 9:40 is the most mind blowing i've ever heard. This passage always sounded a little awkward, Volodos just dodges it, but Goerner nailed it. Also the thoughtful pedalling throughout the piece kept it moving. Great upload as always
I agree. Goerner magically transformed this intimidating part into something majestically impressionistic!
You should hear Valentina Lisitsa interpretation, she played it on an imperial 97 keys, the piano roared.
I think overall volodos has a far more convincing interpretation than this guy. More power and impetuosity but yes I agree with the decrescendo
@@salemismael4994 roared at the decrescendo? It should be quiet. Lisitsa interpretation isn't good. Too much pedal throughout and mistakes
If only you weren't coming from FFF part with a Rinforzando molto right there going to Mf after that, and if there were an actual diminuendo… Yeah, it would be nice… XD
This is a masterpiece, considering the story behind it and the way it’s trying to tell the story is immaculate, it’s almost like movie music. The themes are incredible. Lizst doesn’t get enough credit for the musical genius he is.
Basically impressionism before impressionism was a thing. So cool that Liszt had such a long life and we get to see how much his style developed.
I can't hear an ounce of impressionism there 🤔
I do. @@Zdrange03
This was still kinda within his early-middle years. But definitely in his later years this statement would apply well.
Agreed
@@Zdrange03 if we believe what Liszt told some of his students about this ballade, this actually depicts the story of Hero and Leander, and I fully agree, you might wanna watch sonata secrets' video about it
There is so much things in common with Transcendental Etude Harmonies du Soir like 5:22, 9:21 and 11:00. Such beautiful music Liszt wrote!
Do you mean such beautiful music you wrote?? lol
Yes lol
eh, broken chromatic octaves and i dont think i understand the third timestamp's relation w harmonies du soir
for myself
1:05
1:22
3:07
5:12
6:44
10:40
The connection between the downward run at 10:41 and the LH recitative line at 0:43 is justc majectic, something out of this world!
The fact that Liszt manages this ballade to be economically and emotionally beautiful is, indeed, out of this world!
I never connected very well with this piece until I heard this recording. MY GOD, it's like I've never heard it before, a completely different work, and now I absolutely love it! The scales at climax, played like a real apotheosis, not flushed and as-fast-as-you-can, with the right amount of time to breathe and feel that powerful lift up.
Plus, now I understand the structure of the piece, which makes much more sense and even feels like the little son of the great Sonata in B minor. A real masterpiece indeed!
His recording of the Sonata is similarly a revelation, something one would have thought impossible after so many versions have been issued. But it actually comes up fresh and amazing, like this performance of the Ballade. UPDATE: Just to clarify, I was referring to Goerner's first recording of the Sonata (2007, on Cascavelle); there is now a second one (2023, on Alpha Classics).
1:01 is totally Radiohead “pyramid song”
i heard it too lol. also the beginning of everything in it's right place
Thom needs to take that liszt's guy to court , nicking bits of Radioheads
songs it's not on .. ;-)
I watched this video, put Pyramid Song in my Watch Later. Forgot why it was there, listened to it yesterday. Now seeing this comment, I've come full circle 😱
Always knew Liszt was unoriginal.
@@Prometeur Right? smh
So beautiful that at the end, the pedal does not change and you can still hear a reminiscence of that G# in the very last seconds of the recording.
Liszt surpassed all his contemporaries in the consistent creativity and daringness of his textures
What do you mean by "textures"? There are some daring harmonies, but if you are talking about pianistic textures, I'd recommend Chopin op. 10, 25 and 28, that will knock you off your feet
That B6 at the end is simply wonderful.
It gives me goosebump.
Piano solos are definitely one of my favorite classical pieces. Liszt is definitely one name I like to listen to. Since I also play the piano, during my spare time this can be a good reference for me.
una volta tanto sei simpatica
Oh my god. I seriously thought no one could top Jorge Bolet, but I stand corrected; this is outstanding. Indeed, you nail it perfectly: They "give the work a couple more minutes to breathe." Thank you for introducing me to this interpretation.
Liszt is the most underrated composer of all times Everyone who says something like "his music is just virtuosity" know nothing, literally NOTHING. He surprased the age and all of his conterporarios!
Liszt already dropping bars at 12 yo
Liszt is a great genius.
His tremolos, fortissimo chords (compact and broken) and octaves are quite something! But for my taste, he is rather overrepresented ... the piano concerti and in particular the b minor sonata are masterworks for sure
I *really* hate that most people know Liszt only for his Hungarian Rhapsodies. Honestly, I see Liszt as a truly intricate and musical composer, even when the technical challenges of his music. This, the Years of Pilgrimage, the Transcendental, Concert, and Paganini Études, and the Harmonies Poétiques et Réligieuses are all masterworks. The Hungarian Rhapsodies too, but they are *way too* eaten up by everyone.
I agree but you can say that about any composer really for their most famous pieces and Hungarian rhapsody #2 is though without a doubt an amazing piece or la Campanella
@@456death654 i know i just wish they aren’t eaten up by everyone
I agree completely. And I would add that the implicit idea of Liszt as a "bits-and-pieces" composer completely overlooks one of his greatest feats in his music for solo piano: organizing the great cycles (four of which you listed) as whole entities. Even a tiny sequence like the Consolations gains so much from being heard complete! This extends even to cycles based on music of other composers, notably Schubert in Liszt's (re-)ordering of the Schwanengesang songs, in which he creates a cycle where none existed before.
@@456death654Hungarian rhapsody 6 is better to me.
Gondolier's song 😍
Liszt was possessed by music, a genius
At 7:00 for some reason I always expect the second (D major) theme from the B minor sonata to start lol
Ha, feel it too.
Me too lol
Me aswell
I would really recommend listening to Lisista's interpretation of this piece, it's my personal favorite. She pedals the chromatic decrescendo at 9:40 and then KEEPS THAT PEDAL for like five seconds, and it's incredible. It sounds like black smoke seeps into the piece, and the melody becomes a sword cutting through the putrid air. She truly nails the atmosphere of this piece
1:05 is the same progression as seen in Pyramid Song. Nice 😌
It hasn’t been mentioned by anyone, but this piece is programmatic music - it’s based off the Greek myth Hero and Leander. The story goes that Leander falls in love with Hero and swims every night across the Hellespont to spend time with her. Hero lights a lamp at the top of her tower to guide his way. One night a storm approaches and the winds blow out the light, causing Leander to drown. When Hero finds out, she jumps off the tower to join him in death. The opening of this piece is like the waves of the sea, and 9:14 is the climax of the piece which is when Leander ultimately drowns. The section that follows ( 10:53 ) is Hero discovering this, and the second and third climaxes beginning at 13:21 shows her despair and her eventual suicide. The two lovers wash up on the shore, joined in death, never to be separated again (14:16).
Liszt was never hesitant about adding explanatory material to the printed editions of his works, witness the etchings and quotes in Year One of the Pilgrimage Years, or the excerpts from Lamartine's poems throughout the Poetic and Religious Harmonies. And of course there are pieces where the additional information is in fact absolutely necessary for understanding the music: f.i. the Two Legends (St. Francis of Assisi and St. Francis of Paola) and the Two Episodes from Lenau's Faust (The Nocturnal Procession and the Dance at the Inn, a.k.a. Mephisto Waltz #1) which both come with lengthy prose or verse prefaces. Then there are smaller "clues," notably the quote from St. John famously inserted partway through the Fountains of the Villa d'Este (Pilgrimage Years, Year Three). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that any published score of the Second Ballade contains a program. So whatever Liszt may (or may not) have said to someone at some point about the inspiration(s) for the piece, he clearly didn't feel it was essential to include it with the music. Thank you.
@@treesny I'll take your word for the fact it was not in any published score: I don't know about that but I'll believe you. But I'm very sure it is based off Hero and Leander. Claudio Arrau studied under Martin Krause, who was one of Liszt's disciples, and he maintained the idea that the Ballade was based off the Greek tragedy. There is a video on UA-cam explaining and analysing it if you're interested!
@cynicxloud Thank you for the information. Incidentally, the story of Hero and Leander is strictly speaking a myth -- not a tragedy, which implies a stage drama. The best-known English-language version is the poem by Christopher Marlowe.
this is amazing - it feels so **warm** in the places where it ought to be
This recording is super interesting. Although Goerner takes it slow here, you can clearly hear all the details. And his control over the pedal is simply astounding!
This analysis has to come along with "Hero and Leander" geek Myth. You can ear the four days that Laeder swims toward his beloved Hero, but in the 4th day he drowns in the storm. Then she threw herself from the tower and at the end they are burried together by the shore in a lover's tomb. That is what 2nd Liszt's Ballade in all about. Claudio Arrau used to refer to this myth also.
" is the Greek myth relating the story of (Ancient Greek: Ἡρώ, ; [hɛː.rɔ̌ː]), a priestess of Aphrodite (Venus in Roman mythology) who dwelt in a tower in Sestos on the European side of the Hellespont, and (Ancient Greek: Λέανδρος, ), a young man from Abydos on the opposite side of the strait. Leander fell in love with Hero and would swim every night across the Hellespont to spend time with her. Hero would light a lamp at the top of her tower to guide his way.
Succumbing to Leander's soft words and to his argument that Aphrodite, as the goddess of love and sex, would scorn the worship of a virgin, Hero succumbed to his charms and they made love. Their secret love affair lasted through a warm summer. They had agreed to part during winter and resume in the spring due to the nature of the waters. One stormy winter night, Leander saw the torch at the top of Hero's tower. The strong winter wind blew out Hero's light and Leander lost his way and drowned. When Hero saw his dead body, she threw herself over the edge of the tower to her death to be with him.
Their bodies washed up on shore together in an embrace and they were buried in a lover's tomb on the shore".
00:00 Day one: Leander Swimming to pass the strait to meet Hero
01:00 First encounter betwen Leandro and Hero. Leandro says "Ich liebe dich" and Hero responds "ich liebe dich". Hero Succumbed and they made love...
02:07 Day two: Leander Swimming towards Hero
03:07 Second encounter betwen Leander and Hero
04:12 Day Three: Leander Swimming in the winter storm but is still able to pass the strait towards Hero
06:06 Third encounter betwen Leander and Hero.
09:10 Day Four: The day Leander drowns
09:09 to 09:42 Leander's drowning (The strong winter wind blew out Hero's light and Leander lost his way and drowned)
09:42 Hero waits for Leander but he didn't manage to pass the strait. She reminds their love affairs...
13:07 to 13:21 Hero threw herself over the edge of the tower to her death to be with Leander
13:22 The lovers are embraiced and buried together by the shore
14:07 Hero reaching Heaven
14:16 Leander and Hero meet together in Heaven for eternity.
Well, I pretty strongly dislike narrative analyses of music, especially if the narrative in question means nothing to me. Greek myth is boring, boring, boring.
I also don't know what you mean when you say the piece is "all about" Hero/Leander. Do you mean this is what Liszt had in mind? That's highly contested, since the evidence points to this being based on Gottfried Bürger’s Lenore. But that's beside the point - even if Liszt had Hero/Leander in mind, why should that be relevant for how we listen to this music? I for one deeply love this work without needing to associate it with second-rate Hellenic melodrama.
Music is "all about" what the listener perceives in it, full stop. And each generation of listeners should feel free to construct its own narrative associations with music (if it wants to - and I so no particular reason for this, to be honest).
@@AshishXiangyiKumar I see your point but this is not me saying it, it was what Martin Krause (student of Liszt) who said it to Claudio Arrau... So who you will you trust? Your ear or a student of Liszt himself? There is a poem of Leigh Hunt published in 1819 who could also inspire the work. For me Liszt succedes imensly in telling the night swimming of Leander towards Hero, after that you can analise structure, Harmony and so on. In this case you can't analise structure without knowing the tale (it's just pointless)... Arrau is pretty clear about that too and points out all the nights were he swimms, when he drown's etc... Every analysis is important but in this cases the Greek Myth has to come first. Just like in Chopin's ballades you should read Adam Mickiewitz's Conrad Wallenrod, The Pirlgrim, Ondine and The three brothers.
@@andre.vaz.pereira I will trust my ear over everything else, every time. And I include composer intent in "everything else". Perhaps it's different from others, who prefer that their musical reactions are received from the outside. But that's just the way it is for me.
I think you like extramusical references, and are just going about insisting other people listen to music the way you do. I don't see why you have to do that.
@@AshishXiangyiKumar I repect that, i aslo like analisis and music as music "itself" or the so called "absolute music". i belive that the concept of "absolute music" is being missplaced in a lot of XIX century composers or works. It's a riddle that seems to be more difficult to solve than the analyses because the references are very dificult to find (or even inexistent). Analysis as a subject came after most of these works and it was in constant mutation. I belive that is what you are trying to look for or just contemplate and there is nothing wrong about it. I just feel this is far from being "absolute music" and the extramusical references from the composer should be considered, thats all. Analasing a greek myth and its influence on the ballade is also content analyses, i don't dissociate the tasks. They should blend, not dissociate.
@@andre.vaz.pereira I can see only two arguments comes from you:
1) "Arrau said that." Ridiculous.
2) "We have to understand the context to understand the piece. Any attempt of ignoring context would lead to a struggle to analyse" Not quite true.
Very fine playing .. the sound is similar to his debut recording of Chopin that was so wonderful .. he's got the right piano and engineer to show off his skills .. his Chopin Sonata #3 could be right up there with Kissin .. don't know this piece well .. thank you so much Ashish for these excellent read-alongs and analyses ..
What a work. Love the harmony in this. Very dramatic.
Marvelous. Franz Liszt was a musical genius…
heheheha
heheheha
hahahahe
hahahahe
Heheheha
Probably my favorite Liszt piece
Liszt has always had a way with codas. There is no exception here. It is one of his most stunning.
Thanks for uploading this. Beautiful music is what we need right now.
Or a vaccine :)
a british guy Why not both?
My acquaintence with classical piano pieces is, by nature of the breadth of that category, quite sparse. I discovered this piece recently and it's slowly captured me as I gain over-familiarity with other Liszt pieces, Liebestraum, Hungarian Rhapsody, Mephiso Waltz. This is yet another whole different feeling and I now finally place it on my mind shelf in proximity to Stravinsky's Firebird. Not in tonality but tone, there is a magical levity, sense of indelible triumph after frenetic, torrential darkness. I will be here for many more listens, bravo!
These analyses themselves are works of art. I must ask, do you use a particular reference? Or do you just listen to the music and write whatever comes to mind?
If it's Bach or Beethoven I usually have some reference works lying about the house which I consult, but almost always I just listen to the piece several times through with the score to figure out what to write (+ do the usual research about dates/origins/versions, although I rarely include this stuff in what I write -- I'm much more interested in music than music history per se.)
Sometimes a quick consult of academic databases will turn up useful analysis (often buried in theses for performance studies), but that kind of music-focused research is becoming a lot less popular these days -- the trend leans toward cultural studies or broadly historiographical/conceptual writing (which is fine, just not what I'm after). Plus musicology today tends to discourage expressing aesthetic judgment on quality of work, which is kind of understandable, but not helpful for me.
Reasonably often I just find myself in a situation where there's no good reference material at all, so everything is done from scratch. This was the case for both Rachmaninoff sonatas, for instance -- both of them are brilliantly conceived and structured, but no-one appears to pay _that_ much notice.
@@AshishXiangyiKumar Even that answer was a work of art :)
My teacher told me that the best Beethoven analytic source is Charles Rosen's Book, the Beethoven Piano Sonatas. But is not free you must to bought it
@@AshishXiangyiKumar can you recommend books similar to what you referenced?
This piece is so amazing and just stunningly beautiful!
He really made something new to classic music. To me,T2 has a taste of modern harmony ,unique in all the times
He was innovative, without him no Ravel, Debussy, Scriabin...
@@alexs1504 No. But there won't be Liszt, an innovator of harmony, a genius et al.
This is so beautiful. The ending with return of the "Love" theme is amazing.
Truly marvelous, expansive and meditative performance! Thank you for sharing this. This performance makes me realise how closely this piece relates to Obermann's Valley in painting a vast, complex Romantic panorama.
1:01 I wonder if Radiohead got their inspiration for Pyramid Song from this section.
I love this music piece, one of my favourite. I'm a big fan of Giuseppe Andaloro's version for the Busoni competition. It's a little bit slower but so much powerful! Thank you for this upload
Liszt is my favorite pianist! 🥰
I always wonder whether Johnny Greenwood accidentally or intentionally lifted the chords from 1.05 for radioheads everything in it's right place.
I was wondering why these voicings sound so familiar, thanks :D
Reminds me a bit of Pyramid Song !
Michael Peacock 01.05
Yes, I've never heard this ballade before and that was the first thing that jumped to my mind also! I can see Pyramid Song also being possible, depending on which came first I suppose.
@@MaestroTJS I've just discovered Hania Rani's F major. It's new age music with a similar chord progression.
the 12:00 theme is so nice
I agree. It is so romantic and make us feel nostalgia about something…
This composition is elite
never heard this before, absolutely refreshing
This piece calls for the substitution of rolling pins for the left hand in some measures
He had a vision, meaning a glimspe of the future. So ahead of his time. These chords😢😊
This is the best of Liszt, imho.
A really good Liszt piece, love it
Best performance of all time is Valentina Lisitsa’s on a Bosendorfer with additional low bass notes. She’s able to convey the drowning of the hero at the 2nd climax by letting the low bass notes linger with lots of pedal.
I love how the music is on the video like I know what to do with it.
I almost never leave comments, but I have to thank you for the interesting explanation!
Liszt is something else
5:34 is incredible
0:00 A abertura é assustadoramente maravilhosa e volta se repetir de maneira magistral 2:09 - veja como é magnífico 8:10.
Theme 3 always melt my heart.
GREAT dramatic playing
I like how I have to stick my ear to the speaker to hear the resolving note in the end
9:41 is the spot where Valentina Lisitsa paused to produce an epic echo on the imperial piano.
I always read your analysis because they make me understand the piece more. However I noticed one thing with the structure of this piece: the recapitulation starts from 10:17, when T3 is introduced in B, the tonic. Then we have T2 also in B and finally the transformation of T1 and its variations. So it's more like an inversed recapitulation.
That melody right at m24 is so cute 🥺
What a recording!!
First time hearing this tonight. WOW
[1:15] - [1:25]
Arvo Pärt?
Fratres?
yes! i heard this too
6:11 Do I hear "When you wish upon a star?" It seems to happen several times in the music.
I always hear that in Mahler's Adagietto
Thank you as always.
I'd like to listen to your choices of piano concerti of the standard repertoire.
Gl.
The pattern and progression starting around 04:15 , with the right hand playing four-notes chords and descending octaves in the left hand, both in triplets, seems inspired from the first Brahms' Ballade in d minor. Except Brahms composed his ballades in 1854 (source: Wikipedia), i.e., just a year after Liszt composed this Ballade! I don't think that's a coincidence.
But maybe those chords are reminiscent of the chords in the last page of the first movement of Beethoven's Appassionata, especially the first, startling chords re-introducing the main theme. I don't think that's absurd, because at 04:42 the left hand plays the same kind of bass from another passage of the Appassionata's first movement: check it out, it's there, bars 134 ff. And it's the same low C repeated in triplets, with occasional longer notes!
Now I'm going through the rest of the piece, maybe I will notice something else.
Anyway, I don't like this piece, it conveys nothing to me.
(sorry for my bad English)
Thank you for uploading this and for your edits. You should use your knowledge to update and refine the wikipedia pages on Transmutation and Transfiguration that Liszt pioneered.
Marvelous!
lol i just was thinking about giving another try to this piece. Now i know which version i have to hear
Twisted and gnarled in a good way
Excelente versión de esta hermosa obra!!!
This is such a beautifully sublime piece; exactly what we need right now!!
My favorite liszt's piece❤❤❤❤
How does he have so much contrast at the start? That's insane especially since its pretty fast
Es mi favorita esta pieza, me lleva a una sensación de plenitud .
A música é tão agradável que suspiro...
Thanks so much for the lovely interpretation! Keep up the good work!
very powerful
There's a fantastic but little-known orchestration of this on UA-cam.
In order to write something like this, you must need like half the piece already in your head for this math to come to be. How on Earth did Liszt do it
The way all the great composers did it: thinking through music in their heads
This is what I wonder in all Liszt pieces, even though the patterns are usually same, the melodies and variations are always mindblowing.
Sincere question: why would he have needed to know half of this before he wrote it on paper? Why do you say that he couldn't have developed it all from a small fragment?
@@flyingpenandpaper6119 Great question!
By the way...
@@flyingpenandpaper6119 He prolly did. It was the same thing he did with his 1st Ballade, most of that work is based on an 18 bar, 1 minute Album leaf.
Wonderful playing, thanks for the post Ashish! I really appreciate your breakdown, which from a technical standpoint, is spot on. I think if you added the very morose, and quite frankly terrifying story behind the song, it would make viewers even more deeply appreciate (and be terrified by) the piece even more.
My only minor criticism of Goerner's playing (and this is just personal in my part) was how the arpeggio at 5:40 was buried by the main voice. I'll never forget the ELECTRIC feeling down my spine and the accompanying goose bumps from Horowitz's legendary rendition. For comparison: ua-cam.com/video/r39E6LzGoLs/v-deo.html
"I think if you added the very morose, and quite frankly terrifying story behind the song, it would make viewers even more deeply appreciate (and be terrified by) the piece even more."
AXK is pretty onto absolute music himself, so yeah.
Wow, tragically beautiful story told by Liszt. Henrik Kilhamn gives a very nice explanation on "Sonata Secrets" channel - apparently this is the story of Hero and Leander and with that in mind this speaks so much deeper
Wow! I watched the same video! Yes, the story is very tragic and Henrik Kilhamn explains it very nicely.
14:09 did he have four hands? 😳
It is the ossia line
No, you can see there's a subdivision at the beginning of the variation : above is the ossia version which is usually(because here it doesn't look so much) easier and below is the original line that Liszt wrote for this
How is 13:47 even possible? Dont you need both hands to play the chords ?
The LH cuts out halfway through the run, but Goerner does a really good job making sure it's not too noticeable.
Ohhhh, thank you.
He does it very good. What a stunning performance!
This is amazing
Does anyone know any good performances of this piece? I am looking for something that tries to keep it clean and precise.
I appreciate Horowitz's version but I doubt that if you want precision and similarity to the score you will like it
This one is great, goerner is def my fav, horowitz is also great but doubr he fits that role, i also love the 5 minute long incomplete recording of rach playing this, cziffra is also good
from 10:15 to the end, this piece made me a person who cry after coitus
Is it just me, or is the passage at 13:22 in a different place than normal? I could be mistaken, but I remember another recording where the ascending runs took place before that passage.
Yeah, I've been exploring some recordings, some of them start at 13:47. Probably an alternative passage to play before bigger climax?
Horowitz adds his own cadenza somewhere around there, if I’m not mistaken
1.01 that's where Radiohead drew inspiration for Pyramid song
Quite bit reminding of La Valse, the first part.
What happened to the previous uploads of Ballade No. 1 and Ballade No. 2? (I believe they were uploaded to this channel previously). Who are the pianists that played in those previous versions? Thanks for the upload! I'm currently learning this piece thanks to your previous version.
The main theme is beautiful, it is somehow like chopin's barcarolle
Can we assume this is Nelson Goerner? It is quite a good recording, and takes a more expansive approach that I also prefer. He still rushes the rhythm at 2:47, but it sounds so organic that I don't mind. On a side note, though, I have never heard of this Ballade being analyzed in Sonata Form. Is that your idea or did you find it in a theory article? If so, could you send me the full analysis? Thank you for uploading!
Imagine being pretentious enough to dedicate your life to to being pretentious. Enjoy the music, your dialogue is and will always be uneccesary
@@davidp6913 Some thoughts are better keep in mind than to be say out loud
8:37, 12:52
Genius
Brilliant
I love the way the notes are played so fast.
The second theme sounds very familiar... is it a reference to another piece?