Is It Time For DJs To Ditch MP3s? 🗑👀
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- Опубліковано 14 чер 2021
- With all the big music streaming services now offering lossless audio (including Apple Music), today we ask, "Is it time for DJs to ditch MP3s?"
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My thoughts:
I agree that if you are going to edit the track (or even separate the frequencies into stems)- you should go lossless. Otherwise, mp3's are completely fine. I have never heard anyone complain about the sound quality. So much goes into sound quality- quality of mixdown/ production, quality of the soundsystem, settings on the soundsystem, etc. I think a well mixed mp3 would sound better than a lossless file that wasn't mixed well (in production).
People in the club might be drinking (or other things) and most of them are just there for some fun and dance- they are not trainspotting on the sound quality of the music. People that do that are generally the same types that come up to you and request some extremely obscure B side (that only they want to hear) then consider you to have poor musical knowledge/ taste when you won't play it for them........
One other thing to consider- lossless is bigger and if you tend to get a little lag in your DJ software/ laptop- you are more likely to get lag with the larger file. It might not be much with one file, but four lossless (4 decks) plus efx, could be a problem. They will also take longer to stream across any music service and could lag there as well.
Very fair summary Kenneth!
As you indicate... If you're editing the track, using stems, recording your mix for upload or promotional purposes, or just for yourself, you will want to use a lossless file format to ensure the final product sounds professional to those who CAN hear the difference. However, club goers mind states aside, most club sound systems won't benefit a wink from your lossless file format, so mp3 or lossless is a personal choice that has no bearing on what people will hear in the real world. Buy digital lossless and vinyl direct from the great people producing it or from a company that actually supports artists like Bandcamp. These corporate lossless streaming services won't be getting my money.
This is another marketing scam/cash grab from these big streaming services, mp3s have been rocking parties for years now, the proof is in the pudding and personally if you can don’t use streaming services but actually own your music like everything else
Thanks for weighing in Kreature
I agree with this. There’s plenty of gigs where wifi isn’t an option. I do a combination of both, but like 95% mp3s
If you get a festival gig, and play mp3's, you won't get booked again. Your choice. Just sayin'
personally... i will not throw away, delete my mp3 files... i collect it for years..... why should i ditch it?
@@jay21malate97 no one is saying you should. It's just a matter of what you would play if you were playing on a system for 1000 people. If you wanted another gig, then invest in lossless files. Not like thats a huge investment these days.
I make sure to buy all my music in WAV and I rip my CDs using FLAC so if I ever decide to venture into a club with a solid sound system. There won't be any audio issues on my end.
I'd say dj's are fine dj'ing in Ibiza with 320k mp3's
Nice one :)
Not worth the time
Thankyou for your candit opion on the MP3 Vs wav subject..
No problem!
Thank You great analysis
No problem!
AIFFS have been my way for years when spinning large venues and clubs, festivals. With locldown and a smaller harddrive laptop Ive started buying MP3s again lately just cheaper and likely not playing big events for a while
Nice one!
Good morning Phil hope all is well! Keep up the great content 👏👌👍
Thanks for watching!
I use all formats and make my adjustments as necessary. It is what it is. You have to be flexible to perform...no need to get hung up on the type of file you use. just perform
Cool :) Good point!
This is a good point. I feel if I need to add a 16 bar intro or something having those in wavs would be best. Otherwise a 320 mp3 is fine if you’re leaving it as is
Hi everyone! Only one thing with streaming. That can be taken away from any of us if they decide to block your availability in certain region and you are out. So personally I'll still buying my songs mp3 or waw etc...and keep them safe on my storage devices!✌👍
Thanks Tibor, the title was perhaps slightly misleading but this wasn't actually about streaming :)
I find new EDM tracks the mastering is good enough that the compressed files to MP3'(320)'s sound good but older tracks 10/15years or older that were produced/mastered and pressed on vinyl, the Master WAV format is a must for the best quality..overall i do personally prefer WAV Masters for best sound on pro gear
Thanks for weighing in Tibor :)
I have always used mp3, but sometimes I use MP4 which video karaoke files..but when streaming through platforms they are compressed anyway, great tutorial Phil & now I understand what you mean..at the end of the day it’s matter of choice & space on your drive
Thanks for watching Dan :)
Good stuff mate!
Thanks for watching!
I'll never forget when I got to play a few tracks through a funktion1 system. I played a 320mp3 through it and it did not sound right at all. Muddy, didnt have that crisp and clarity funktion1 are known for. I then played a WAV of the same track and it sounded completely different. It sounded absolutely amazing. Never bought a mp3 since then. If you are a just a bedroom DJ who never plays out, then I wouldnt bother changing, but If you do defintely buy lossless files.
Nice one Johnny, though I do suspect some confirmation bias going on with that scenario - either way if it works for you keep it up!
a lot of wavs are dead air like many lossless formats and as the compression tech has advanced in blind tests between cd mp3 an vinyl only vinyl was detected.I have wavs but mostly mp4s.I have used a pro system with them and those that were no good were dropped and that was a very small amount.Fortunately storage is cheap these days so one can afford to put files that are half empty on them if you wish but whats the lossless for mp4s?
Thanks for weighing in Danielle
I love that denon was forward thinking with sc5000 and its tidal intergration and being able to select lossless from the menu. Denon really are pioneers with that move
And having the master quality tier means im saving money overall since the pool of music is growing every week
Pretty cool isn't it? :)
If you buy a song from apple music formerly iTunes can you download the wav now like you used to be able to?
Yes
There are very few venues that have good enough sound systems (especially when packed with noisy people, which massively change both the physical acoustics and the psychoacoustics of a venue) to provide a HiFi audio experience good enough for a punter to tell the difference between WAV and 320kbps MP3.
On the other hand, I remember in the early 00's when DJ tracks started to become available as MP3 download. Some services would provide 128kbps, 160kbps, and 192kbps as an option, and you could definitely hear the difference there, even on a really crappy system. To the point that you could play the same track on vinyl and 128kbps MP3 and the vinyl version would fill the floor, and the 128kbps MP3 version would empty the floor. So quality does make a difference, but only up to a point.
Thanks for weighing in Dean :)
Also, if you're in a great venue, with an amazing party going off, and an amazing sound system, and you're there, nerding out, trying to pick out whether it's a lossless file, or a 320kbps MP3 being played, then I'd argue that you're missing the point of being there in the first place. 😄
Very true lol
The one "difference" I hear is the lossless audio is a bit louder. But if you match the dB output side by side (after adjustments
On the gain) there is little to no difference. Only other difference is the depth or "bass," it seems a little more deep/crisp. I tested the same track from the same cd that was ripped both MP3 and lossless.
I'll be happy to hang on to my mp3s. More storage! :)
Thanks for weighing in Corey :)
I think i heard a big difference between Flac and MP3 with my Hifi Headphones.
Especially hihats and other bright sounds just sounded a lot crispier.
But of course it could be all be placebo. I should do a blind test..
You definitely should!
I can just about hear the difference between lossless and MP3 but only in the context of concentrating on it and listening to it without any other background or ambient noise. i have concentrated on having good MP3s since I started my move to laptop DJing in 2009.
Nice one :)
I don't think I could tell the difference tbh but I do get music from record pools and sometimes the mp3s are just poor quality even though they promise 320kbps. Then the only choice is to delete and not use it or find it to purchase somewhere else.
Yes, file type is only one part of the equation :)
Sometimes pools provide unmastered singles or tracks with audio that's not standard amplitude (0dB). I've had tracks which I've had to amplify anywhere from 3dB to 16dB. If they're mp3s I'd have to save them as wav, aiff or flac so there's no more compression happening when I save the edited version. Same applies to my edits.
One of my DJ pools provides wav as well as mp3s, so if I know I want to do an edit I'll download the wav version of the track. I actually can tell the difference, but most of the audience can't so...yeah.
Amazing explanation
Thanks!
IMO, with Flac (level 0) you get the best of both worlds i.e. no loss in audio quality plus detailed tagging options. Works great with Serato.
Nice one :)
I use to use Spotify on "DJay" for mac years ago before the closed-off API access. It would great for requests, otherwise I like knowing I don't need to depend on an internet connection to play my gigs.
Yeah it was a shame to see it go!
i already playing video songs since from my startup in dahing. after one year i stop to play mp3 and use to start playing video songs in every party ....5 years passed now.
Nice one :)
Hey! Great show. I had this idea (if you use it- just give me a shout- DJ Malys), but you have a wider reach and more tech (so it would be a better data set). Set up an article on your site. Have six songs, three mp3, three lossless. Have people vote which ones they think are lossless and which are mp3. Compile the results. Let's see if you really can tell the difference.
Nice idea Kenneth, these kinds of tests are already out there though and don't mean a whole lot when there are so many variables at play :)
I've been using FLAC for several years and slowly replacing my mp3 128 and 192 with either 320 or FLAC when possible. There is a clear difference IMHO. Especially, on high quality systems. Also, because I use STEM, I really can hear the difference.
Cool :)
Never go lower than 320kbps
I think you can when a song has been too compressed. When file-sharing was a thing, 128 and 192 mp3s were more common and those definitely don't sound as good as 256 VBR or 320 mp3 files. I have a mix of mostly 320 and lossless files on my computer and I can't tell the difference if I'm being honest. However, I do think the source can matter especially once you start applying effects. It may be worth mentioning that not all hardware (thinking of my XDJ-RX2) can handle all of the common files formats, like ALAC which is really annoying. Definitely no issue with mp3s.
Good points :)
there was a time when most of us were used to 128-192, thought it was fine, than we heard 192, than 320k Thought how can we get even better? Then the flacs snuck in and we noticed that while I can't say a Flac sounds like this but I do know that my ears are less tired when the music is loud if that makes sense. More enjoyable cranked up.
Sorry, but I must disagree. 128kbps MP3’s sound great to me. ANYTHING over that and I honestly do not hear any difference over that, and - even with drive space being more affordable - having larger file sizes eats storage space (especially FLAC files, which turns a 4.5mb 128kbps file into a 44.5mb file.)
If they are going to lossless then is there an app or program that converts to lossless so that you don't lose all your music that has been downloaded?
Not entirely sure what you're asking here Carlos, streaming services are offering it as an option at consumer level was our point
Been Using FLAC since it became an option for ripping.
Awesome!
i got 100s of mp3 songs . over my dj journey i went from vinyl to mp3. I only started to listen properly latley and i have dicthed all my catalog and now trying to buy old cds to get better sound.
Nice one Mahlon :)
thanks
Definitely 👍
u will probably hear it on audiophile systems and recordings that have orchestral music.
Yeah will certainly help :)
Saturday night, when they're all pissed, they just do not know 😊
Very true!
The truth of the matter is that Record Labels and/or Producers often don't have the original project files to create lossless files. I've purchased M4A, AIFF, ALAC, AAC files that should have been 24 bit, however, they were often fake files. Some were true high quality, but not all of them. I hope this problem can be addressed and DJs can finally have access to new 100% 24bit audio files.
Got to bust out "Fakin' the funk!"... and your ears of course :)
YES!! So MUCH YES!!!! LOL! I too want access to the 24bit Lossless files from every store! Bandcamp is good for this.
I ditched MP3 back in 2015, used WAV ever since
What made you make the change? :)
@@digitaldjtips
One could also turn the question around: why did dj's ditch cd's and vinyl and use digital files?
Probable answer: practicality and flexibility.
But why compress to mp3, 320/256/128kbps, a quality that's inferior to cd or vinyl?
Probable answer: Because in the beginning of digital files, large storage (harddisks, usb sticks) wasn't cheap, on mobile personal devices large storage wasn't available or costly and internetspeeds were slooow....so strong compression - as with 'ZIP-files' - was a neccessity and very welcome.
All these aspects have improved a lot the last years - storage and internet- and wifi-/4G/etc. speeds - so strong compression has become less neccessary.
For stationary audio listening/playing, especially on audiophile high-end gear, there's no real reason to opt for less than cd quality (or 'lossless')..
There are even audiophiles who claim to here the differences between cd and High(er) Definition audiofiles.. but let's not get into that.
In the average club or pub, people won't hear the resolution differences anyway (and most dj's are half deaf already too..), and are happy with available (deep) bass, treble and sufficient dB's.
@@digitaldjtips
Because of the sound difference, file size to me doesn't bother me either. I don't use cd's anymore either and have gone fully digital/USB. MP3's/CD's are a thing of the past now, who wants to be carrying around a cd wallet when you can just carry USB stick in your pocket or attached to your house keys on a chain lol
Cool :) very true!
some lossless wav music is sometimes louder in volume compared to mp3 but the music itself sounds the same.
Thanks for weighing in :)
Drunk people in a club ain't gonna know any difference just like if u spin wax they don't know and don't care if its serato
Very true
Wav don't tag any info if a purest jagon flac favorable as tagged with genre key and bpm is a necessity
Thanks for weighing in Philip :)
i use mp4s.Also compression tech is making it harder and harder to tell which is what especially with dance music where you mainly need decent bass and highs and a good kick.People at a rave are not sitting down talking about the fidelity of their Pink Floyd album .
Nice one Danielle, and very true! lol
I missed the live debate, but a few years ago (I believe) Phil had Laidback Luke on for a Q&A and Luke answered my question about this. He said, "It is so miniscule on the difference, that nobody will be to tell. So yea, use MP3s, I do!" Because of this, I continue to download my music via MP3 and I'm still criticized by it sometimes ha.
No biggie, I've seen audiophiles guess wrong comparing 320 mp3s vs original versions.
Got to do what's right for you at the end of the day!
And what happens when you decide to edit your dj mix in audio editing software? You're not going to be left with a lot of headroom are you? This is one of the main problems I see.
It should also be remembered that original recordings themselves are always being remastered and re-sold. I would be suprised if any format stayed in trend forever. Some great music out there has been recorded at source with poor mastering.
Very true
I use mp3 and wav the wav costs more but deffo sounds better but to be fair I spin on DVs with techs and s7 spinning oldskool hardcore and to me I’d sooner buy good quality vinyl you deffo here the difference over mp3 and wav is pretty much as good
Cool :)
the problem with streaming is 1) you need connection. not good if you're in a field and 2) very few of them work with DJ software (aside from Tidal and Beatport Link). Spotify used to, but they stopped that now, for whatever reason. So it doesn't matter if your streamer is Lossless or not, it's essentially useless for DJS (aside from discovering new music).
Buy the lossless/flac file from Bandcamp or whatever (or buy the CD), then convert it to MP3 320 for general use. (unless you have huuuuge flash drives, then knock yourself out with the flacs lol).
Thanks for watching Al :)
In most cases, normal, every day users won't be able to tell the difference between mp3 and "loseless".
It may be better for you to go with "loseless" when listening to the music at home, on the phone and things like that cause you are more focused on "listening" to the music itself so it's easier to hear some imperfections.
But when you are at a club or any kind of party, you are more focused on the "artistic" (if you like it or not, if the beat is cool for you, if it gets you to that good mood etc.) part of the music and having good fun at the club than on the technical aspects of the file that is played so in this case it doesn't matter if you play from mp3s or loseless. Unless the mp3 version is really bad, people just won't hear the difference and won't care if you are playing mp3s or loseless.
And I'll be very honest - this also applies to the gear you are using, 90-95% (the remaining 5% are probably people who either are DJs or would like to be a DJ) of people in the club doesn't care if you are using "top tier" DJ gear or beginner controller, as long as they like the music you are playing, you can make them dance and have good fun - they don't care what are you using to achieve that. Cause lets face it - if someone is going to a club, it's to have fun with their friends, get some drinks and to dance to the music he/she likes.
So I think it's better to focus on making people have a great time than on things that actually don't matter for them. And while the gear may be important to DJ cause it gives him more options, file format is really not that important, to anyone.
Thanks for weighing in! Some very good points :)
I always choose WAV or AIFF over MP3
Cool :)
Same
Stopped buying MP3’s months ago when I noticed the quality from sites like beatport and Traxsource were very inconsistent but everything I purchase in AIFF/WAV quality is always consistent
That's interesting, thanks for sharing
wav is always better ,but wav files also take up a lot more space in a HDD
@@mannyfreitas5563 can always get more space what’s more important the audio quality and maybe purchasing more usb sticks or another external hard drive or poor quality audio and having loads of space on your hard drive
That's really the producer what he's uploading . Depends on quality
i always had good hearing, and i can tell wavs sounds alot better to me, and at a big club with big speakers a MP3 will sound bad
It is of course subjective, mp3's get blasted in clubs around the world every day with no complaints of it sounding bad
@@digitaldjtips the DJ mixer has to be at least 96 kHz to get away with 320 mp3's in a club, if you using 44.1 kHz which is CD quality, then you have to buy the WAV files or you will sound like shit., example i just bought a Reloop touch again, they told me it was a 44.1 kHz, but according to virtual DJ it's 48 kHz. and it sounds Ok but not as good as Traktor or pioneer. i have tog buy the WAV files to use that mixer or it will sound bad useing only mp3's, at least that is how it seems to be on my 15 inch alto DJ speaker's
In your opinion yes :) Literally no clubber on earth cares about the fidelity of a DJ mixer (and most DJs don't either)
@@digitaldjtips ok, well just trying to help, sorry
@@digitaldjtips couldn’t disagree with you more. Blasting distorted, overly loud MP3’s into people’s ear all night isn’t cool and it doesn’t sound good.
Upscaling the sound is coming on new players. So far I think it's only the Pioneer CDJ-3000, but once new tech arrive... Upscaling will not replace lossless, but it's clearly improved the sound on mp3's of the CDJ-3000 according to a couple of friends who has them. This will make the decision a bit more simple for DJ's sometimes playing on big sound systems but like the faster transfer speeds and the option to use metadata... and really don't want to or have the time to convert a life long collection of music.
Interesting!
the extra magic on the CDJ-3000s just touches up some of the compression artifacts you get in the audio. for some genres and encoder settings, they could be noticeable, but most of the time, they are not. it's a nice feature and could balance out some files that were badly encoded or just have frequencies / instruments that the encoder struggles with, but DJs have been fine with playing MP3s on other or older gear as well. i wouldn't sweat too much about it.
I can easily hear the difference
I have a mixed library of mp3s and Flac
And while building a set and examening a song if it will fit in, sometimes I will say to myself, "oh this sounds off "
And then i see that its my mp3 version of that song
Rule then is simple: Use flacs!
I have always been curious about this topic and what my setup would sound like on a big PA, quality wise, with the use of 320 MP3 via ableton. I would be like yes, I’m on stage ready to play… then, Holy shit all my songs sound like crap. I would shake my head smile and exhale, next please.
If it's any consolation 99.99% of the crowd wouldn't notice or care so there is that :)
I agree with you - I can't hear the difference. What I CAN hear the difference on is speakers. If "DJ's have a responsibility to produce the best sound" why the heck is the 15" two-way speaker on sticks tolerated?? With few exceptions (like the expensive RCF's with very large compression drivers), the typical 15" two-way without subs is a severely compromised mess. It would be nice if industry leaders such as yourself addressed this - perhaps a future UA-cam video?
Thanks for the suggestion, we'll have a think :)
I buy the CD's & record as lossless...
Yes I have a load of redundant CD's..😂👍
Haha, good plan though!
Depth of field is different. Only an audiophile would pick and recognize. Joe average in a crowded room wouldn't care if you played it off a cassette. Which if was the original would have more frequency grunt than compressed or not digital file, only problem with tapes were stretching, transporting and as everything does with friction, wear out, especially the oxide on the tape. Vinyl better depth of bass frequencies, so you feel it more. Vinyl wears, melts, is heavy, so here we are today. "It's a weapon of choice"
It's certainly going to be "audiophiles" that have a better chance of hearing a difference!
i think lossless is a placebo effect for a lot of DJs and other music enjoyers that swear by it. i've yet to see a scientific hearing example that has any connection to the real world.
it should be easy:
do a blind test with different genres, encoder settings, audio formats, and sound systems, and the judges should be DJs and music enjoyers from different genres and styles as well.
i think one reputable DJ from hip-hop, techno, rock, etc. and one or two audiophiles would already be enough.
then you just do a lot of testing, record the data (votes for audio quality) and see how close people are for guessing which playbacks were lossy or lossless.
i think people would be surprised that lossless is very hard to tell outside of home HIFI or lab environments.
We agree but ultimately you should trust your ears
@@digitaldjtips my ears are not perfect. but i want the best quality for my audience that makes sense. if if was just me, i'd probably be fine with 256kbits MP3s, but i know that some people will hear that it's not the same quality as something higher. i think they argument of "you should play what sounds good to yourself" only goes so far. as DJs we provide a service and sometimes we do things we normally don't do, or do differently, as part of this service, and i think sufficient audio quality is a part of that. and to determine which audio quality makes sense for certain types of DJs is something we can scientifically approach, but nobody is doing it and rather rambles online about how inferior MP3 is.
What about mp4? Is wav files better when dj’n
Well they're video files but I believe they do in theory have the potential to sound better than mp3's
How much testing was done if these files sound different
Ah yes @2:23
This was a discussion Dorian so I'm not sure what hypothetical test you're referring to
The difference between 320 mp3 and wav is minimal. When I get sent promos if there is a wav option I'll take it but I'm not snobby about playing a 320 mp3. I see wav as a nice to have rather than a necessity. These streaming services are just jumping on the band wagon and using it as a marketing ploy. Don't be taken in they just want your money
Nice one John
Here is a sad truth.. I've gotten WAV files from labels of popular radio songs and they sound horrible as the producers are prob from tik tok or something.. Your audio quality is only as good as its produced... More and more songs are like this I'm finding
Very true!
what???
Difference betwen mp3/flac/wav/aiff is hard to hear, with what I have at home I can hear a difference but only because I search for one, but once I hear it, it's almost obvious. On a big system it's a bit more "deeper", but not in a bassy way, it's hard to explain, it's like the sound have a deeper dimension.
Because of that I slowly replacing my mp3 collection by flac, but lot of club are still using CDJ Nexus, not the v2 or 3000, and Pioneer don't update their old player to support the format (even though they could), so it's a weird transition moment where I have 2 hard drive with one having only mp3.
The sad thing is that I'm propably the only one to know that it's loseless files, I know some resident club DJ that rip their sound from UA-cam, claiming that they can't hear the difference, and the sad thing is that it's probably true :/
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this one!
Yes! That deeper dimension you are referring to is the soundscape. It is noticeable. I wish more people payed attention to this. Kudos for using your ears, DJSE!!!
you can edit a mp3 just as well as any other file
Sure you can but there's a reason producers work with WAV files over mp3, if I'm doing an edit and applying more effects, compression etc then bouncing it again to mp3 I'd rather start with a WAV to ensure to best quality final track
Sorry couldn't join live as was at work. From the title I thought it was ditching mp3's for streaming was going to be the main topic of debate and to be honest I think it should be (maybe next week!?) If it's lossy mp3 vs lossless WAV then for me 320k mp3's wins that all day long. We all know club and mobile sound systems will 99.9% of the time not show up any noticeable difference in quality and having storage devices large enough to store lossless formats isn't affordable, practical or even worth it (IMHO).
Thanks Craig, good points :)
most music is not possibel to hear the diffrence, easiest would be a really good soundsystem and recordings of big orchestras. The Mp3 cuts only frequency`s that are anyway in the background, so as example from 5 violin player you hear then only 3. But most mordern music does not have so many same frequency`s over each other. I work since over 7 years most of the time with wav. 16bit, sometimes flac or aiff and sometimes also 320kb mp3. But i try to stay to lossless and to have big usb-sticks and music pre-processed in rekordbox is not such a big problem these day`s
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Gobi :)
@@digitaldjtips you are welcome. I am Dj since now 13 years and the people with 320kb mp3 are most of the time not the real problem. Why mp3 has such a teribbel name in the dj and event scene is because most people with mp3 that are not sounding well, are ripping theire music from youtube or other sources and that in combination with a cheap controller with a shit interface or no knowledge about what happens when they get into the limiter and allways try ing to turn louder and it losses only more dynamic. A good quality mp3 can sound very powerfull, in my opinion even on a Function One, Void or Lambda Labs Soundsystem very very difficult to hear out thats its no wav.. Only when playing big Orchestra`S or Chor`s on such a system the mp3 has no chance anymore. Then i am able to hear it. Won a few bet`s with that.
99% can't tell the difference, files take 5 times more data on hard drives and more time to transfer and backup... not worth it to switch yet
@@SirAlfredSourcock mp3's sound like shit, lol
Thanks Paul, definitely going to be the case for most!
You are talking about nursing house dwellers?
@@digitaldjtips Marika Rossa only use's CD's still, she would never use a MP3, and she is the Queen of Techno
That's an appeal to authority fallacy
In a Bar, Club or Festival environment i seriously doubt 99% of people would be able to tell, its not like the DJ is gonna have an MP3 on one Deck and the wav of the same tune on the other and keep fading between the 2 while everyone stops and critically listens lol.
In your Home environment when your listening for pleasure to your favourite albums on decent gear you can hear the difference with classics like Rush, Yes, Floyd, Beatles ect played side by side but not with todays Electronic Music, i really struggle to tell the difference with it anyway at least, 320mp3 is plenty for EDM imho.
Although i would love to spend an hour on a mint club sound system just flipping between tracks see if i can tell :)
Thanks for weighing in on the topic :)
I stopped giving a shit about flac vs mp3 when I got a chance to play on a really high end Danley sound system...I noticed absolutely no difference. The crowd didn't care, I didn't care. Would rather save space on my hard drive/thumb drive for more tunes 🤷♂
Many including myself would be in full agreement with you there
Is it wawf or wave file?
Wawf?
Crowds will not be able to tell the difference between MP3 or something of higher quality. 🤷♂️ So as long as the music pools are kicking out mp3s, I'll be using them.
Very true
This is the modern day equivalent of the old cassettes argument. Do you prefer normal chrome or metal? MP3's are like the old D90 cassettes - cheap and chearful and get the job done.
I can see that :)
If we are considering MP3 and AAC, then I would say go AAC. MP3 has been around for about 25 years and hasn't evolved. AAC however has. Think of all the different profiles you can encode AAC in (HE/LC) and when encoded right (with the Quicktime engine or CoreAudio). Try encode an AAC file with QAAC on Windows or Quicktime on Mac and compare it to mP3. You won't hear it at 320 kbps but at 256 kbps you will hear artifacts in the MP3 so there's a quality/filesize ratio there. Anyway, that's my 2 cents after testing. On a personal note, I've been using AAC even for backing up my movies and it supports 7.1 channels just fine with audio quality compared to DTS. Just saying.
Thanks for sharing Andy :)
Maybe people don't care. You can have a great party with an awful sound system. But why would you deliberately choose inferior quality?
MP3 is a compression format from 1992. If you have Spotify Premium then your streaming music (AAC 256) is slightly better quality than MP3 320. I would feel ridiculous paying money to buy MP3s.
I don't have great ears, but I can hear the wooshing artifacts playing MP3s on a CDJ-2000NXS2 sometimes. EQ-ing can really bring it out. Compressed formats use psychoacoustic modeling to throw away sound information. MP3 uses old algorithms. When you start EQ-ing and pitch shifting it breaks the modeling.
Besides compression artifacts, MP3 encoding cuts all frequencies above 20 KHz (even lower if it's not 320 kbps MP3). Most people can't hear those frequencies, but shifting the track four semitones would make it a 15.8 KHz cutoff. You don't have to get super fancy to bring out the damage done by compression.
But I'm being nerdy and pedantic. Nobody cares. The only MP3s that sound like total trash are the ones people get from shady UA-cam rip sites. And the CDJ-3000 does a better job with MP3s than the CDJ-2000NXS2. But personally I don't think there's any good reason to use MP3s when you can get lossless audio.
And you want to use lossless AIFFs, not WAVs. AIFFs can have tags and cover art and all the metadata. Adding metadata to WAVs makes them non-standard. If you put WAVs in Rekordbox some of the tag info is in the database but not actually added to the WAV, so it makes them harder to transfer places. You should just use AIFFs.
The size of uncompressed files isn't an issue in 2021. You can fit about 1,800 WAV/AIFF tracks on a 128 GB drive. And a good 128 GB SanDisk or Samsung USB drive is $15 or $20. You don't want to use USB drives smaller than 128 GB because they're significantly slower (for most models of drive).
FLACs are a bad idea because they will only work on an XDJ-1000MK2 / CDJ-2000NXS2 / XDJ-XZ / CDJ-3000. And it's an epic pain to convert FLAC back to AIFF if you need to play on other equipment. Rekordbox doesn't make it easy. But AIFF works fine in Rekordbox and Engine Prime.
Thanks for weighing in Raquel, some good points to think about
easily the best post ive seen on this in quite some time Raquel, cant fault it!
yeah, if you can get 96khz, 24bit AIFF with all the meta data....why the hell wouldnt you!...i'm no audiophile but I can notice the difference between a 44/16 MP3 & a 96/24 AIFF when using external analog FX on top of my MP2015 filters and EQs, but thats only because of the sound quality of the mixer, spdif outs and the rest of the system, so its situational..
I dont play out anymore, not for over 20 years, and only I ever listen to my own mixes, but to me thats all that matters..and it makes a difference.
The biggest difference is the file size is much smaller and information that is read by cdj's like cues etc... is easily encoded on mp3's but there's issues on the wav format.
@@nathansweeting167 yeah its just the file size really. I use WAV and still have some MP3s knocking around but mostly just use AIFF and never have any problems on my 3000s with cue points with either WAV or AIFF format, but with AIFF, like Raquel said you get all of the meta data and album art and theyre slightly smaller than WAV. I dont see why anyone would use WAV over AIFF now. The only other issue ive ran into so far with AIFF is when I convert a vinyl-only tracks to digital the CDJ3000s cant use 32bit and wont play them so youre limited to 24bit, but thats amazing quality anyway at 96khz.
Regarding file size, again, like Raquel said file size really isnt a thing these days, ive got about 5 or 6 1tb Samsung T7s which are super fast and take a long time to fill even with 100mb files. MP3s of course, like you said are tiny by comparison, but it means nothing when super fast SSDs are so readily available
@@nathansweeting167 Cues are kept in the DJ software’s database, not in the metadata tags on an MP3.
Streaming requires reliable wifi at venues, especially for mobile DJs. I don't trust streaming presently while doing gigs. As a resource, yes, but not for doing. Maybe, in the future.
Some services and implementations are now offering offline caching. Also we expect to see Ethernet more and more in DJ booths.
Bottom line Is the younger you are the more you can tell the difference. The older you get the more your hearing deteriorates.
2nd it also depends on the mastering of the actual song.
3rd what you actually playing the music on audiophile system definitely make a difference and would show up poor quality
Good points
...and after an hour in front of a large banging sound system, no ears can hear the difference between any formats.
There is no difference in lossless or lousy if it is the same bit rate and frequency. If you go from wave at 32 bit 96000 hz to mp3 16 bit 44.1 hz you will hear the difference. Period
Thanks for weighing in Robert
I think a lot of people remember how MP3 quality wasn't as good as lossless formats back in the 1990s, and never updated their opinions about it.
Could be!
yes, i think exactly the same way. they probably listen to 320kbit/s MP3s more than they want to believe. back in the day we had shitty encoders and lots of 128kbit/s MP3s, or generally shitty rips, but those days are over.
AAC MP3s & ALAC for me :)
Nice one :)
Mp3's that are properly compressed and cut at 20khz are the way to go, any genuine dj would say the same... Im still waiting for you to make a video of You'r mixing skills Mr. Ditigal Tips.. Djing is an art, its about creativity with rhythms and beats.. Not only "how to and what to use".
No need to wait, Phil DJs every second Sunday here on UA-cam and has been doing for about a year now :) Either way we're a DJ school the biggest part of what we do is the "how to" not promoting ourselves, we've been there, done that and got the t-shirt
If you are a scratcher, lossless will sound much better. If you are slowing a song down, it will sound better. When songs are slowed down, you will really be able to hear the difference between lossless and mp3.
Yes
What do you use Clint? :)
@@digitaldjtips WAV or vinyl 👍🏻🙌🏻
Cool!
Going lossless is just future proofing your library.
Only if you can hear the difference?
Heh. It was time over a decade ago 😂
Fair enough 😀
We never your video on youtube . Can I have a link please
Imagine you carry around a hard drive with 100's of terabytes of data just because you decide to go lossless lol.
😅
2TB is enough :)
I'll stay with MP3'S
Cool :)
All my music is wav cause Im pretty sure it's a smaller file size
Do you mean mp3?
We all know the old saying if it ain't broke why fix it
True!
10mb for a mp3 or 50mb for a wav
Soon adds up!
Absolutely... Mp3 just sounds rubbish on a big system. And yes, you can tell the difference.
Thanks for weighing in Hugh
That's definitely true .
Lol streaming 😂😂😂 vinyl or lossless. The end
For me it's all about the density and energy of the music. And lossy music loses that density and energy. As a DJ that is the main argument for me. The audience might not notice the difference on a conscious level, but they will unconsciously and give us DJs a bigger chance of creating magic in on the floor with the original density and energy. It's like a chef reducing his soup until it is punchy as hell. The guests at the restaurant might not be able to taste all the nuances of the soup, but somehow they will enjoy the soup more, witout being able to tell u exactly why. A good parallel is the thing with the mixing skills, where u make a transition and start bringing in the next song. People wont notice the next song until way later than the DJ does, but it will shift their mood in a new direction. The argument "they wont hear the difference anyway" is not valid in my opinion!
Define "density and energy" and how it translates to the sonic difference between mp3 and wav? Not trying to catch you out or anything but I find people often use these vague subjective terms as justification
@@digitaldjtips That's exactly the point. We are not able to objectively measure and define those sensations as yet. (Science is very young.) But every DJ worth his salt works off of the "vibe"of a place and talks about "energy levels". And part of it is metaphysical in nature and goes beyond what the ear can perceive or the physical body feel. On paper there should be no difference between wav and 356 kbps mp3. But many can perceive the difference.
I hear you, it's very shaky ground but ultimately you've got to use what works for you :)
@@digitaldjtips Agreed. And not be deterred by the shakyness and flakyness of your own experience. It it works, it works. If it doesn't it doesn't. :-) Keep up the good work. Great channel!
KUMBAYA!!!!
Wasn't what this was about discoworm :)
@@digitaldjtips OOPS
💘
😀
XLD is great freeware program that can alter Flac to Alac for apple use should you not be aware of it, I'm sure there are many other applications that can perform a similar task. I can personally feel the difference between the formats and if you are playing these days via streaming and video compression, I'm not sure if you would hear etc the difference. I want the best quality sound as possible and I buy the music I like and surely you would hear or feel the difference on a good system, MP3's lack depth, I compare them to a 2d drawing which your mind can translate into a 3 dimensional image but actually seeing a 3D image is more immersive. Its odd why Djing is considered different to enjoying the music you purchase for personal pleasure, I want to present the music as best as I can in the way the artist has created them and intended for them to be heard. It is all a matter of perspective I guess but having choice is the most important thing
Thanks for sharing Daniel :)
@@digitaldjtips I am a musical snob though so maybe this has a part to do with it :). Thank you for welcoming me.
I use mp3s soley due to metadata
Most audio formats have metadata, only WAVs out of the main ones don't. For instance, FLAC is lossless, but has metadata.
I don't believe the Apple employee sums up the debate clearly I believe the Apple employee is doing good PR by sticking up for their business model that they've been using for a long time to talk about how good their product is versus launching this new product. He's inadvertently talking up his brand and what they've been doing. This prevents Apple from looking like they've been behind in technology for a long time we're not delivering the best quality always.
For sure, you've definitely got to take these kinds of statements with a pinch of salt :)
... wait: ditching mp3's hasn't always been the case? 🤔😂😜
Definitely not! :)
Definitely wouldn't DJ with lossless. MP3s and AAC work just fine and are worth the smaller file size. However, I will disagree and say that I actually can hear a pretty clear difference when comparing an MP3 to a FLAC file. At least during side by side comparisons, I can hear the dynamics much better.
thanks for sharing Connor.
Another informative episode Phil, thank you. In my humble opinion, streaming companies going lossless means ditching Mp3 as well as music producers. Spotify 's loyalty payment isnt fair for producers who are essential in underground electronic music. I would personally ditch online streamers, and prefer to buy music from Bandcamp or similar fair platforms to support them.
Yeah you're certainly not alone, thanks for weighing in!
Apple music boss cannot tell because he's using those 1980s orange foam headphones.
I dare say he's wiggling the wire trying to get a signal.
J/K
Isn't being able to tell part n parcel based on the equipment? An audiophile will sware they can tell the difference.
All I can tell is when a producer scrimps on mastering. Then it doesn't matter whether it's lossy or lossless, the sound quality is pants, period.
There is certainly some confirmation bias going on with lossless (and the other way around as well!) - as with all this stuff use what works for you :)
Buy most of my music from Traxsource. Did a test myself. Bought the same song, one Wav and one MP3. I could not tell the difference.
Thanks for weighing in Kelvin, interesting to know!
@@montanacorp Huge quality difference. I buy almost all my tracks in FLAC or WAV. I pay a subscription fee of $40 or £27.50 a month & I get 100 downloads for that price. I will never get ripped off by Traxsource or Beatport again.
nope cuz wifi isn't everywhere lol
You don't need wifi to play WAV :)