Well folks, I recorded this one late at night, and I must have said ‘right’ at least ten thousand times here😂. But I hope you enjoy some of my ramblings.
*You may not like the Jewish point of view, but here goes:* *As the Tanach (the OT) tells us God forgave even without blood, be those gentiles (Ninve), Israelites (the exiles that returned from Babylon) and individuals as well (King Menaseh who repented in exile and was restored to his former kingship) - Hebrew's **9:22** and Christianity in whole are lies.*
@@GenZTheology I affirm Recapitulation, Ransom (Rescue), Restored Icon, Moral Influence, and Christus Victor... pretty much good with any non-Anselmian model.
I am Catholic so the campus ministries look at me like a Mormon or JW already. I was approached by a Reform individual who point blank asked me who murdered Jesus on the cross, I said no one because he laid his life down, it was a sacrifice. He said God the Father. The conversation got heated after that because I told him that's heresy lol
There's a lot of material on PSA and against PSA, but I'm really missing thorough discussions on the other models. There's so many questions to ask about the ransom model that I cannot see discussed anywhere.
Just in response to the title: the answer is 'No.' The debt of sin is owed by mankind, but Jesus paid the debt for all who believe in Him and His work. Things for the curious to consider: During the height of the crucifixion, Jesus was quoting scripture to mark the fulfillment of prophecies. When not quoting scripture, He was setting a precedent. Jesus quotes this verse in Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" That's Psalm 22:1. Luke 23:34: "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." This reflects Isaiah 53:12, where the suffering servant "made intercession for the transgressors." Luke 23:46: "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." That's Psalm 31:5. Luke 23:43 "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise." This reiterates Christ's promise of eternal life to all those who believe in Him and His mission, becoming circumcised in the heart. John 19:26-27: "Woman, here is your son," and to the disciple, "Here is your mother." This emphasizes the importance of family. In Christ, we are brothers and sisters with Him, and Mary is our mother. Despite arguments for veneration, what's clear is that it's important that Christ entrusted His mother to one He considered to be His most beloved brother. And it's good to entrust our most vulnerable loved ones to our closest brothers and sisters in Christ, especially when in the face of death. John 19:28 "I am thirsty." This fulfills Psalm 69:21: "They put gall in my food and gave me vinegar for my thirst." John 19:30 "It is finished." This was the moment He had finished what He set out to accomplish. This fulfilled various prophetic scriptures about Christ’s suffering and death, such as Isaiah 53.
As an atheist it saddens me to hear Christians say ''we deserve punishment for our sin'' because I obviously don't accept the absurd notion that Adam and Eve existed and God had to punish the whole of humanity and animals too. This is a belief which arose in a time where such myths were everywhere, there is no reason for adults to believe any of this in today's world of information. Critical thinking ids the antidote for this mind virus.
That’s why millions, if not billions by now have given their lives to him. Of course, like they have to Mickey Mouse. Oh I know, they are delusional. You are the only one with the answers.
@@iwipemyownass1416 Convinced of what exactly, I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything, i simply answered someone's question, did god punish Jesus on the cross.
![William Lane Craig vs. Christopher Hitchens | "Does God Exist?" | Biola University | [HD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/P0XRQd9YOUM/mqdefault.jpg)
Well folks, I recorded this one late at night, and I must have said ‘right’ at least ten thousand times here😂. But I hope you enjoy some of my ramblings.
*You may not like the Jewish point of view, but here goes:*
*As the Tanach (the OT) tells us God forgave even without blood, be those gentiles (Ninve), Israelites (the exiles that returned from Babylon) and individuals as well (King Menaseh who repented in exile and was restored to his former kingship) - Hebrew's **9:22** and Christianity in whole are lies.*
Ooooo looking forward to this!
Craig watered down PSA and redefined it so much that it was unrecognizable. Not sure that's a good defense strategy
Yeah I think I lean towards Christus Victor personally. What about you? Are you still repping the Restored Icon model?
@@GenZTheology I affirm Recapitulation, Ransom (Rescue), Restored Icon, Moral Influence, and Christus Victor... pretty much good with any non-Anselmian model.
Next time I will be more proactive with thoughts & prayers
Appreciate it Josiah😂
I am Catholic so the campus ministries look at me like a Mormon or JW already. I was approached by a Reform individual who point blank asked me who murdered Jesus on the cross, I said no one because he laid his life down, it was a sacrifice. He said God the Father. The conversation got heated after that because I told him that's heresy lol
There's a lot of material on PSA and against PSA, but I'm really missing thorough discussions on the other models. There's so many questions to ask about the ransom model that I cannot see discussed anywhere.
Would it help if I brought an expert on in the future to layout some more of what the other systems offer?
@@GenZTheologyyes, please! I haven’t been able to find much about any of the other theories and would like to learn more.
Just in response to the title: the answer is 'No.' The debt of sin is owed by mankind, but Jesus paid the debt for all who believe in Him and His work.
Things for the curious to consider:
During the height of the crucifixion, Jesus was quoting scripture to mark the fulfillment of prophecies. When not quoting scripture, He was setting a precedent.
Jesus quotes this verse in Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34:
"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" That's Psalm 22:1.
Luke 23:34:
"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
This reflects Isaiah 53:12, where the suffering servant "made intercession for the transgressors."
Luke 23:46:
"Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." That's Psalm 31:5.
Luke 23:43
"Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
This reiterates Christ's promise of eternal life to all those who believe in Him and His mission, becoming circumcised in the heart.
John 19:26-27:
"Woman, here is your son," and to the disciple, "Here is your mother."
This emphasizes the importance of family. In Christ, we are brothers and sisters with Him, and Mary is our mother. Despite arguments for veneration, what's clear is that it's important that Christ entrusted His mother to one He considered to be His most beloved brother. And it's good to entrust our most vulnerable loved ones to our closest brothers and sisters in Christ, especially when in the face of death.
John 19:28
"I am thirsty."
This fulfills Psalm 69:21: "They put gall in my food and gave me vinegar for my thirst."
John 19:30
"It is finished."
This was the moment He had finished what He set out to accomplish. This fulfilled various prophetic scriptures about Christ’s suffering and death, such as Isaiah 53.
Vicarious Satisfaction is the biblical view.
Yes, GOATED loving and forgiving God
No
Jesus isnt "an innocent man taking the punishment". Hes the Judge accepting the punishment for the crime.
Jesus is the judge taking on the punishment? Where did you find that in scripture?
@@a.t.6322 Is Jesus God?
@@Dee-nonamnamrson8718 Is God Jesus?
if you're on the crucifixion scene, would you try save Jesus? or no?
As an atheist it saddens me to hear Christians say ''we deserve punishment for our sin'' because I obviously don't accept the absurd notion that Adam and Eve existed and God had to punish the whole of humanity and animals too. This is a belief which arose in a time where such myths were everywhere, there is no reason for adults to believe any of this in today's world of information. Critical thinking ids the antidote for this mind virus.
Did Snape have to kill Dumbledore?
I thought jesus was God?
No
I have to say no, because god is as fictional as Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck.
That’s why millions, if not billions by now have given their lives to him. Of course, like they have to Mickey Mouse. Oh I know, they are delusional. You are the only one with the answers.
What a well-thought remark. I’m convinced now.
@@iwipemyownass1416 Convinced of what exactly, I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything, i simply answered someone's question, did god punish Jesus on the cross.
@@jerrylong6238 No. He allowed him to die for our sins so that we could be forgiven and receive eternal life.