Denafrips Iris DDC Review & Why Use a DDC Anyway?
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- Опубліковано 19 лип 2024
- The Iris was a loan from a friend of the channel. Thanks!
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Reviews of Mentioned Gear...
Denafrips Pontus II DAC: • Denafrips Pontus II (O...
Berkeley Alpha S2 DAC: • What Gear is My Gear? ...
Focal Utopia (OG): • Focal Utopia Headphone...
Geshelli J2S: • Geshelli Labs J2S DAC ...
HiFiMan HE1000se: • HiFiMan HE1000se Headp...
HiFiMan Susvara: • HiFiMan Susvara - Summ... &
Schiit Bifrost 2/64: • Schiit Bifrost 2/64 DA...
Singxer SU-2: • Schiit Bifrost 2/64 DA...
Violectric HPA-V281: • What Gear Is My Gear? ...
My Hearing Quirks: • WaveTheory Reviews Wav...
Timestamps...
00:00 Intro, Pricing, Disclaimer
01:22 Shameless Self Promotion
01:49 What is a DDC and Why Might You Want One?
06:44 More About the Iris
09:16 Features & Build
12:12 Sound
16:16 Which Output is the Best?
18:58 Comparison w/ Singxer SU-2
21:20 Wrap-Up
At 19:44 I mistakenly say a BNC coaxial spdif connection is 110 Ohm. It's not! It's 75-ohm. AES is 110 Ohm.
👨🏻Lol, yes, knew that, thanks for the review.😉
I have 2 Denafrips DACs (Pontus II 12th-1 and Ares II 12th).
The Denafrips Iris 12th makes the sound even better with either DAC.
The Cardas Clear USB cable sounds even better than the already great freebie cable from my Eversolo DMP-A6.
The Cardas Parsec RCA cable sounds even better than my already great WorldsBestCable (using Mogami 2549 and Neutrik connector).
streaming source=Apple Music lossless.
You are wise and one of the few reviewers who grasps that there are OTHER reclockers you could use. More than a year ago, I had bought the Singxer Su-2, a so-called "USB bridge".
The other day I purchased a new USB cable, an Oyaide Neo Class A which did sound nicer with my Denafrips Pontus Dac, than stock USB cables.
Then, as audiophiles are wont to do I had try every configuration of my system using what I had lyinig about, with the new USB cable.
And voila, I was very surprised to find out that with the new Oyaide usb and my Singxer Su-2 in the signal path, the sound was much improved.
Sorry to have to say that but it was true.
So you don't strictly need to shell out for the Denafrips reclocker. Actually I just spotted a pre-owned Su-2 currently for sale at Usaudiomart, for only $350.
My wisdom on this is that probably the "blame" is to be laid at the feet of the streamer (or transport). A truly top class streamer or transport would eliminate the need for a reclocker such as the Iris or the Singxer, but most of us don't have one.
I have 2 Denafrips DACs (Pontus II 12th-1 and Ares II 12th).
The Denafrips Iris 12th makes the sound even better with either DAC.
The Cardas Clear USB cable sounds even better than the already great freebie cable from my Eversolo DMP-A6.
The Cardas Parsec RCA cable sounds even better than my already great WorldsBestCable (using Mogami 2549 and Neutrik connector).
streaming source=Apple Music lossless.
Good job. Detailed review. I agree with you that such converters are definitely needed in the system if you need a USB connection. From my experience DDC from Gustard U18 + Gustard R26 connected with a silver I2C cable is a great combination. The increase in sound quality is very noticeable! Improvement can be heard over the entire frequency range.
I just returned my Gustard u18 ddc. I was using it for my bifrost 2/64, it didn't do anything at all for my setup. The bifrost 2/64 is good enough to where there is no noise at all. I was using my schiit jotunheim 2 amp as well. I really wanted it to do something but with my ears their was no gain at all in sound quality.
What a wonderful review , loved the DDC introduction and detailed analysis a lot!
Have you ever got your hands on the Topping U90 DDC? I happen to own one having it plugged to the Gustard R26 DAC and I would love to hear your personal opinion/comparison to other DDCs like the Iris.
Denafrips also do a more expensive DDC
hi thank you very much for this excellent video
i believed that usb asynchronus connection were intended to solve all issues as the dacs must have an own internal clock
of course the quality of the dac is important
I thought the DDC, with use of its clock instead of the DAC’s clock, reduced jitter. I guess if computers transmit EM, that’s a bonus.
DDCs make a massive difference. Even cheap ones with femtosecond clocks can transform your system - as long as the components in the DDC is better than the one in your DAC especially the clocks. I got cheap Chinese one for $200 with a xmos chip on the input and a cchd957 clock on the output. Power it with another cheap Linear power supply and you'll be impressed. It's essentially upgrading your clocks in your DAC. It's worth every penny.
MCRU brought my RME dac to life. I’m an LPS believer now.
@@morespinach9832 yeah these regulated linear power supplies make a huge difference. I got one this month with ripple of less than 80 micro Volts. That's insane for the price i paid.
the only thing that makes a "massive" difference in the audiophile world is when things are broken.
if you blind tested this vs the straight up USB input on the topping d50 you wouldn't be able to pick them apart.
massive difference? only if you're doing sighted listening.
@@sauhamm3821 i don't have any topping product. I like r2r dacs. Noise in input matters a lot.
@@sauhamm3821 not at all dear. I can tell Chi-fi instantly with the highly sibilant outcomes. Anyway here’s a test for you - use any low end streamer (Node, IFI, Cambridge Audio MXN 10, Limetree Bridge II) with its own power supply and then withMCRU linear power supply for the same. Blind fold yourself if you wish. The difference is so palpable that even a regular Bose or Beats person will hear it.
Hey Wave, interesting video! Regarding this kind of devices, what do you think about products like the iFi iPurifier 3? Can its reclock system combined with the jitter reduction improve audio quality? Have you ever tested one?
Good review. Did you compare the Ares 12 combined with the Iris DDC with the Pontus 12 without the Iris DDC? I am trying to decide if it pays to buy the two pieces or just purchase the Pontus 12 . Thank you for any opinion you might have.
I recommend to buy the higher tier DAC Pontus. Only if your digital source is considered to be very bad, then maybe the other way round.
Seriously, you own an SU-6 and won't give us a comparison? That was the #1 most important info to convey.
Seriously!
Other than that though, love your videos, which led me to be excited to hear the SU-6 vs Iris.
I didn't have SU-6 until after the Iris left, unfortunately.
DDCs see great purchases but extremely hard to review and compare. Some many good options from singxer, matrix , gustard, denefrips, and more.
So I understand that the Weiss dac204 has a I2S signal path behind the USB input. Is that more or less the same idea as the DDC?
I was wondering the same thing?
If I had more than 3 DACs I'd be looking at one. Since that's not the case and I only listen to compressed streamed media, my interest in DDCs is simply educational.
Nothing wrong with that!
Whats the best bang for buck:
Denafrips ares with iris or, pontus only?
Did you have a chance to try via coax w/the Denafrips Ares II?
I have the Pontus, and I did the firmware update. It's a small but good improvement. Can you compare the improvements between the update and the ddc? Like is the ddc more subtle then the update...
Depends. I did not think much of the Pontus II's usb input. If you compare usb performance to usb performance a DDC is going to be quite a large improvement in all but a few cases, with those few cases being mostly very expensive dacs where a higher quality usb implementation is part of that cost. But if your digital source is CD transport with very high quality digital output or a quality streamer with a good I2S output already then a DDC may have minimal positive impact, or could potentially get in the way.
I’m super interested in this and the Ares 12th Anniversary Edition after your review of that. Can you suggest a great streamer for Mac? Will the iFi Zen Stream bring the benefits? Also thinking about HQ Player
Most streamers use their own onboard OS so it ultimately doesn't matter if you use Mac or PC. As long as the streaming protocols are supported in whatever app you're using you should be fine. I recommend deciding whether you want to go a bit-perfect streaming route (in which case Zen Stream is decent) or an upsampling route. If you want to go in HQPlayer, I'd skip the Iris and combine the funds that would have gone Iris + Zen Stream and get a Sonore ultraRendu. The ultraRendu will support up to 768 KHz sampling rates. The Zen doesn't do so great with higher bitrates. Also, the Ares 12th has a good USB input now so you may not need the Iris regardless. If you get the Zen just plug its USB out direct into the Ares.
IFI Zen is ok but finicky in day to day use with Connectivity. Skip that league and upgrade to Lindemann Limetree. If you upgrade later with an MCRU linear power supply you’ll see this gets you to almost an Auralic range of audio quality at 1/5th the price.
Thank you for this very interesting review. 👍 I would like to upgrade my DAC. I own the Geshelli J2 (not S). Do you think I should go for Ares 12th + Iris directly? Or Enyo + Iris (warmer sound?). Or start with the Iris with my Geshelli first? I like a smooth, „analogue“ and a bit warm sound. Not analytic or a „digital“ sound. And I own the Bluesound Node 130. I do stream via Qobuz in CD quality only (no need for HighRes). Thank you in advance.
If the Node is your primary source I'm not sure you need a DDC at all. I'd connect the coaxial spdif output of the Node to the Geshelli, especially if you're maxing out at 16/44.1 PCM. If you want a warmer sound from there it's likely attainable with an amp. What amp(s) are you using?
Hi. Thank you for your answer and your help. BS Node and CD Transport (Audiolab CDT6000) are my main sources. Beside vinyl. 😅 Geshelli with AKM chip. My amp is the Exposure 3510 Integrated. I would like to achieve the next step and upgrade my DAC „sound“. But I do not need a more warmer sound. Could a Soekris DAC maybe be an option too? I am from Europe.
@@wavetheorysoundHi, any further thoughts? ;)
I rather own a DAC that doesn't need an extra component to allow it to work as it should in the first place.
Nobody needs a DDC, nobody needs a dedicated DAC but sometimes a good DDC can improve the performance of a DAC when using it.
@@sjqideez6626 Sounds like an audiophile bandaid.
I added a network bridge to my system. Allo digione signature. Dac is Hegel hd25. There is basically no difference since the Hegel has excellent usb implementation.
It's more about overcoming the shortcomings of your source/streamer as opposed to an inherent deficiency in the DAC of choice.
You should add a Thanks button for viewers who want an easy way to make a one-time contribution.
Does this only take USB in? Would it make sense to use it between a tv and DAC?
It is USB only. It might work if your TV has a usb audio output on it...rare? Dunno. At the moment I'm having difficulty seeing the advantage this would provide specifically for tv use...but then I haven't tried it so it could be great.
Hi so if I have a Pontus II dac, which ddC would u recommend? I use eversolo a6 usb out
Is there a big difference in sound from the iris to Hermes?
I would also like to know the answer to this?
If you buy two of these you can run them in series and convert from digital to digital and then back to digital again.
Because of the comment section I just can't bring myself to make the Goo Goo Dolls reference I want to, cause I don't think that they'd understand.
😂
It's a YT comment section, it's made to be broken.
I'm going back to sleep 💤
Thanks for waking up just for my video 😜😆
!
The more I hear about these things the more I feel like they might be snake oil. This is not a detraction or dig at your video, I think they are absolutely great! I was wondering if there was any peer-reviewed paper that categorically proves these things import the sound quality?
Do your research!
Yep, they sold you another piece of gear!
@JohnDoe-dd2jx is there a fly buzzing around somewhere..so go enjoy your ChiFi...
Sigh ... voodoo at its best. Converting one content-wise digital signal to any other form by essentially changing the package only, by definition won't alter the content as long as it can be reconstructed without errors. Which - at least with realtime applications - only leaves the time aspect for a digital to analog conversion.
Besides that jitter artifacts are yet to be heard in an ABX test as being virtually always below the threshold of hearing (befire masking) even when no particular countermeasurenents are taken into consideration in the DAC design, it always is up to the receiver to reclock the signal if wished so and not up to any intermediate yet-another-conversion device, so that DDC approach except for maybe compatibility in case that a receiver simply doesn't have the required input, doesn't make much sense to begin with. Why trying to fix it in the middle if it's only relevant at the end - if at all?
Furthermore, it is quite ironic by the reviewer to - of all the connection types - exclude S/PDIF via Toslink "for critical listening" as it at least provides a very practical advantage as privilege: galvanic isolation. A few more pempto- or whatever seconds more of jitter or not: it won't be perceivable while the absence of humming might be very well.
"And yet it moves." - Galileo Galilei
Your disbelief does not alter truth in any form. Nor does your intuition. More homework needed you get a F for feelings
@@erics.4113Neither does any belief.However, in contrast the disbelievers have mathematical axioms and theorems on their side. Besides I provided arguments against whereas you didn't and only constructed a vague statement, assumingly based on pure (flawed) human experiences which are heavily flawed by their senses.
@@little-endian5957 I'll agree with you that beliefs do not alter truth either. But I fully disagree with you on DDCs being voodoo. Accurately reconstructing your digital stream does not require voodoo, it requires accuracy. Whether or not your system/chain is sufficiently accurate is another question entirely. Stating that no positive change can come from a DDC is just not true.
@@erics.4113 Just skip-watched throught that video again as it has been a while.
Got reassured that it is really nothing but the usual absolute bullshit and technical nonsense (such as "upper bass", "soundstage", yadayada. It apparently never gets old) for easy-to-catch individuals with similarily easy money to spend on useless products. Fairly entertaining when one once again can't sleep too well, which probably had been the reason I was watching it in the first place, but a nightmare on its own when it comes to proper and realistic delivery of facts.
Keep in mind that all you get here esentially is (UA-cam)-Advertisement, but certainly no education about how stuff really works. And since most individuals, even IT-affine ones, often lack even basic understanding of digital audio, they are easy victims.
By contrast, I can highly recommend resources, e.g. the book "Principles of Digital Audio" by Ken Pohlman as well as the UA-cam-Channel of "Julian Krausse", which is completely voodoo-free, but admittedly also a bit "drier" than the usual gobbledygook one gets from this channel, the "cheap (as in: rather expensive) audio man", "the british audiophile", "GoldenSound" (although somehow I get the impression that this guy actually knows better), you name them.
The definition of "voodoo" is certainly a tough one. Normally it is only used for the really entirely insane and useless stuff, but depending on the strictness, one could even count in quite a few products from per se prestigious companies such as "RME" (768 kHz having no benefit, the fempto-clock marketing also being borderline bullshit) or "Benchmark" (like the DAC-series, me happening to still own their DAC1 myself) because despite their excellence, most of the improvements are simply way out of scope of any human's auditive system. In other words: they are also already too good and more expensive than required for the sake of pure engineering ego and measurements while being indistinguishable from any dirt-cheap DAC. That doesn't mean that there aren't other factors like build quality, driver and customer support, reliability, etc. worth a surcharge. But the pure audio quality aspect is a done deal - since decades, unless human ears become better through evolution one day.
Also, if I haven't missed anything here, this Denafrips Iris DDC thing doesn't even resample anything where one could give some credit in terms of the "oversampling" aspect, although DACs not already doing that at their own are rare these days, but here, whatever this thing does, it could already be inside of any DAC "worth its salt", so to say. As I already mentioned, IF that kind of device would have only the least audible effect whatsoever, it would directly proportionally discredit any DAC which "reacts" to it, becoming a case for the trash can as its jitter rejection would habe to be really terrible.
One of the "reviews" of that obscure DDC on some website, begins with a common misconception, being part of the emperor's new clothes - confusion:
"You can best understand the idea behind any DDC (Digital-to-Digital Converter) if you think of it as a “cleaner or scrubber” for a digital signal."
There is no such thing as a "digital signal". That actually already is a misnomer because any signal itself is analog in terms of being time- and value-continous. It may however (optionally) carry digital content (which in fact is a matter of definition) which again is a purely logical abstraction. Physically, it doesn't manifest in such a discreet way (taking quantum effects aside here as that doesn't seem to play any role in macro dimensions). Hence, while the analog "envelope" may be "cleaned" or "scrubbed" (having no effect on the digital content as long as it is within defined thresholds), the digital content cannot as one can hardly "clean up" numbers.