Do USB Filters Make DACs Sound Better?
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- Опубліковано 14 лют 2021
- This is a technical evaluation and listening tests of USB filters to see if they can make an audible difference in the output of a DAC.
Text reviews:
AudioQuest JitterBug USB Filter Review:
www.audiosciencereview.com/fo...
ifi micro iUSB3.0 USB Filter Review:
www.audiosciencereview.com/fo... - Наука та технологія
I'm not sure if you're new to doing videos but you're very natural at it.
I've noticed that too, Amir knows his stuff and he's very confident when explaining it.
Thank you both. :)
@@Gabriel-of-UA-cam He should know his stuff, as a renowned computer engineer he pretty much created digital music streaming as we use it today. I can't believe he's retired and still takes time to run ASR for everybody and make these awesome videos too.
@@herrtrigger7220 Little correction: He is an electrical engineer, not a "computer engineer"
As always, thanks for the important work you’re doing. You’re the one man Consumer Reports of audio.
Thank you Alan. :)
Amir, you have to feel stupid when you do these tests, don't you? You know the results, you know what is going to happen, you know you are wasting your time, and yet you still do it. AudioQuest business model is based that people like you do not exist. Thank you man, you are the best :D
Wait now let me get this straight you're saying that the emperor has no clothes on. I feel so foolish!
I love these videos. Can't wait for a cable showdown!! :D
Big thanks for your work !I'm grateful you'r here.
Kudos to your dog for the breakdown work.
Very good review. Hope for more info. Thanks
ASR and your reviews have been the best part of coming back to hifi. Many thanks!
Thanks for doing YT as well as your site! Your reviews are detailed, and you never “BS” anyone. Plus, you have a great sense of humour on your site! :)
You going all in with UA-cam! Thanks for the education you are giving me.
I'm curious about a specific use case, using my Scarlett 2i2 (which is bus powered) to amplify condenser mics, I get a distinct high pitch whining sound on the input that I cannot get rid of no matter what cables I use, whether my laptop is plugged in or on battery, etc. Will a product like these UBS filters do anything to eliminate the persistent whine related to USB power interfering with the ADC?
What I like most on your videos? The total absence of pathos.
I love these videos Amir. I'm a fan of your site but the videos are even better.
Thanks Mark. Motivates me to produce more videos.
@@AudioScienceReview I'd love to see a round up of different sub $30 cables including dollar store RCA cables. I'd be curious what really matters.
Amir, very well done. Thanks. It is quite an eye opener.
Thanks Issac. There is a lot more where this came from! :)
Big thank you Amir !
Are you able to record the same kind of video about the LUXURY & PRECISION w1/W2 ?
Thanks. I cannot. Another member in China had that and post the measurements. I don't have one to test.
The dog did a good job 🤣🤣🤣🤣
He is a smart dog. He is handling all video production for me!
@@AudioScienceReview atta boy!!! 😁😁😁😁 Waiting on the next video drop. 👍👍👍👍😬😬😬😬😬
Amir, thank you for sharing content like this.
Appreciate the kind remark.
Is there any benefit to using a linear power supply like a Topping P50?
More... more... more :-)
Thank you for these awesome videos!
have you ever tested the ifi defender+? I just got it and it does completely eliminate my ground loop issue/ gpu noise every time I move the mouse. The weird thing though is that it increases the high freqs as well as decrease sub bass and makes everything seem a little shaper. Not in a good way either, in a digital strange way. Would love to know whats causing that
i had this problem, and the cause was a bad mobo cap, new board cpu and ram sorted it
and now i use a usb dac no noise and no filter
So good to see measurements to what I hear and what I rationally believe
I wonder if i could try this device with a USB hub. I had heard a noise floor when i used a hub so i bought a USB to OPT converter.
BTW, about data being transferred to a DAC via USB data connection, wouldn't DAC have any kind of error correction since it is digital data? I am kind of thinking like copying files on Windows. If DAC could do that, we wouldn't need to worry about jitters, correct ? Or is this "data" more like digital signal rather than bits of data ? Sorry for my ignorance.
Solid work
Much appreciated
Awesome - keep the videos coming.
Have you tested them under high GPU load? I have a D10S that outputs noticeable squealing when playing certain games that demand more from my GTX 1070, and what I did to solve that problem currently was to split the 5V and ground wires from the cable into a phone charger.
That’s not what they’re marketed for-they’re promoted as magical devices that improve the audio for all implementations. Certainly there are isolated circumstances where DACs are poorly designed without proper filtering (Topping is not one of them), or when folks have weak links in their system that lead to ground loops or other electrical problems, where something like this expensive gizmo can put a bandaid on that problem. That’s beyond the scope of this review-he’s demonstrating that the Jitterbug is not capable of the claims Audioquest is promoting it for.
I have this problem with the motherboard’s built-in DAC/amp. I’ve seen some motherboards with usb slots meant for external DACs (gigabyte aorus z390)
Hi amirm, now I'm confused.
I had jitterbug when it came out and I could not hear any difference with or without it. Now yesterday I saw a video from goldensound about DDC with all the graphs and evidence of a cleaner signal when using DDC. I trust you both. So what's the deal.
Amazing. Thank-you Amir.
Please more of these!
have you ever found a better usb-to-spdif converter compared to the Berkeley Alpha USB ?
Noice!! Keep em coming!!
another amazing / bravo video, thank you!!!
Love these videos.
I'd like to see how the Topping P50 Linear PSU stacks up with the D50S/A50S since they claim it makes a difference and they're normally pretty on point with their transparency in specs. That and the fact I own the set anyways, mostly for the build quality/tidyness.
I don't have a P50 to test. I have tested the D50 though with different supplies and while you can measure a bit of difference, for all practical purposes they don't do anything for it.
Compared to my good Aqvox linear power supply unit (not manufactured anymore), the Topping P50 has a more open and deep soundstage. This is done by increasing the treble level. However, the bass and slam are lacking. Instruments sound thin and not natural.
I think it’s wonderful that you include Fluffy in your scientific process! I vote for more K9 assisted tear-downs
So what's the cause of the noise? The data lines? I'm trying to make an electronic stethoscope with an electret-mic board with its own amp, running to an STM32 board that's behaving as a USB audio input device to the PC. I can hear the computer's processing even as I move my mouse across the screen. I slightly reduced the noise by putting a 1k resistor to the usb vcc, then a 10uf cap to ground, then another 1k to the mic-board's vcc, but it's still pretty bad. I was looking for more information before putting some different-sized caps in to try to filter a bit more -- since I don't know what I'm doing... :) --- and I found your video. Thank you. :)
Did you find a solution? I have a synthesizer and it uses separate USB data and power inputs because of this issue. And even then, you have to use an external USB battery power pack because most usb power supplies (like phone chargers) are noisy
Have you done any comparison of USB cables? I know Wolfx700 did one and some Lindy cable did better than the others but probably not by any audible margin.
I have indeed. I will see if I can collect them and do a video on them.
You can get eye candy by using food,looking usb cables and that can make you feel good. But unles those usb cables Are not broken, there is no difference in the sound. I have nice looking usb cables in topping d90 because They can be seen so nice looking cable is nice to have but I can not hear the sound difference... just like I did Expect :)
I tried a jitterbug years ago and I heard no change in my system so back it went. I’m willing to try a lot of things and if I hear a change and a change I like then I usually will keep the tweak
Could a battery powered, on-line/always active UPS help filtering out the noise? I read that the PowerQuest® 3 failed to reduce noise which is a expensive surge protector, so i wonder if a constant battery powered UPS could be actually beneficial for noise compared to these type of usb filters/surge protectors. Cheap on-line UPS starts from 160$ and it might be a good investment for other reasons too.
No. A battery can't power anything by itself. You have to put a switching power supply on it to make it useful. Once there, you don't have just a battery powering anything. Batteries by themselves are poor power supplies with declining voltage, internal impedance that is quite complex, etc. I have tested one such device, the Uptone LPS-1 and it did not do well: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-lps-1-linear-power-supply-review-and-measurements.1849/
is there anything you would recommend to improve USB output
Any recommendation for a USB souce? I Found that my smsl d1 seems to be sounding weak with usb
Why? I want to buy this DAC.
it's all about your output voltage, some have pretty bad voltage and you will need more gain
So, how do I reduce unwanted noise from my pc to my DAC/(Audio Interface Headphones/Speakers) when not playing anything?
@@RaveyDavey I have a toslink connection, but it's actually an output, I'll check your eBay suggestion out but I'm from Italy so that might be a tough call.
Thanks! Almost going to buy iFi Audio iSilencer+ for my dac/amp.
My question is, when I plug my MPC into the computer there is a huge hum and bizzing what can I do if these filters do not work?
Hello amir, can you please make a review about sony mdr-z1r headphones? And what headphones do you think is better than Sonys?
Hi Max. I was supposed to get the MDR-Z1R for testing. I am not sure if it is here yet. If so, I will test it in a couple of weeks. Until I test it, I don't have an opinion of what is better.
Thank you for these videos Amir. You are a treasure to the audio community :)
You are a breath of fresh air on UA-cam, no mythical stuff going on here.
Sure there is some 'magic' in sound and music combined with our brains, and that is exactly what you are pointing out, great stuff, love it.
Thank you so much.
Why is he fresh air. Have you tried anything that he debunks, or is it that people who can't spend the money on such things for ligitamate reasons feel better?
so which filter sounds better? which one to choose in my dac ? all work over 22khz, i cant hear any diff. can you?
The bug doesn't know the source data, so what could it theoritcally do to the bit stream it receives?
I knew that these units were BS that's how I found this channel. You got new subscriber. Thanks!
hi amir, love your reviews on the forum, just discovered the youtube channel ! :DD could you pls review matrix audio Element H USB 3.0 HIFI interface? They claim to create a new USB port from PCIE directly with lots of stuff on the card.. Sounds plausible.. Could you pls help demystify it?
Thanks for the kind words. I actually received an Element H from the company but took so long to test it, that they asked for it back! I hate opening my PC to put things in it. I don't think it would have made much difference anyway.
@@AudioScienceReview ah, yea.. i actually read your comment on this in the forum too. :) I am building a new computer, thinking about buying that USB card, but 250 € isn't cheap for a USB port..
Is there any benefits for having this hardware USB audio dedicated port as they claimed to have an audio dedicated PCI-E connection and not sharing data with other things?
Hello Amirm, would you please check this review of Element H? ua-cam.com/video/iPTxhwNqiNs/v-deo.html
however, i have more questions to this topic. As you can see on Matrix Audio website, "external power source support" comes in as only the THIRD USP for this card, as they themselves as manufacturer would market it. The first and for most selling point is:
"element H uses Crystek CCHD-575 super-low noise femtosecond clock coordinate with USB 3.0 bridge chip from Texas Instruments, open up independent data channel for USB audio stream. It helps signal bypass the USB controller integrated in the motherboard, avoid sharing data channels with other USB devices."
My question to this is, does this card open an independent data channel, so all the devices using this card in Windows as a playback device, would work in ASIO exclusive mode, rather than needing to go through windows audio mixer in shared mode? This matters because the sample rate and bit depth of the original material should not be messed with windows audio mixer in shared mode.
Furthermore, a better TI chip for the timing, means better jitter performance through any DAC?
I think we re going to be very good friends. (!) You are just what hi fi honest doktor ordered! Well due dude !
I like that you explain these results in video and it greatly helps my understanding. Thanks!
Another great, Money Saving video, thank you...
What if you're running a fully custom watercooled 3090 + 5950 RGB gaming PC? Surely something like the jitterbug helps purify the noise levels
Note: Detailed K-9 assisted meticulous tear down and hardware analysis begins at 13:21 . Dare I suggest de-bunking "shielded" audiophile grade power cords that cost a fortune, next?
Always fun to see people using expensive power cables while running unbalanced RCA between the devices
Re: the power cords, I don't think the PVC jackets are good for the doggo.
I'm a re-tired electrician and electronics hobbyist for years and have been arguing and trying to explain how a 6ft power cord can in NO WAY affect the sound. They look really cool but most are so stiff they will probably end up damaging the power jack. Then I always get, "why do I hear a difference?". The same way they hear a difference when you do a blind test to compare two cords but really don't switch them.
Good work. Thanks!
Awesome video keep them coming, please do one comparing distortion and fidelity of active and passive crossovers.............
That's a tough one. I do plan to test the distortion of a crossover soon though.
@@AudioScienceReview That’s great news. Hopefully you can test the difference between the 2 one day and finally put to bed the argument about which type of crossover is technically better.
Great content! Can you do this test on an AC powered USB hubs? Are there scenarios in which the device would be good for? Or does it really not work at all?
Your videos are much more informative than your text posts, since you explain things so well. Please keep making em!
Thanks. It is a lot harder to compose text for me than to just talk. I procrastinated in setting up a video system but now that it is there, I can and will do more.
You are "killing it" with these video. I think you are going to put quite a few audiofool companies out of business, especially the producers of "nonsense" devices like these USB filters.
Nah - their devoted followers are very good at motivated reasoning! I discussed this very device at a danish hifi message board. It was ... interesting!
What's the old saying- a fool and his money...
@@Abrikosmanden RealHifiHelp?
I have 2 jitterbugs and have used them in several different configurations involving different PCs, iOS device and a proper streaming bridge, and in all cases it changed the sound markedly. Mostly improved it significantly, sometimes changed the balance to the disadvantage.
I too have some ifi usb purifiers, they also VERY audibly lift the quality in various configurations (never changed the balance to a notable extent).
So, neither being able to measure nor to hear what is very easy to hear.. what value is provided here?
@@gioponti6359 little value if you've convinced yourself that there will be differences.
Amir which DAC do you own? I know you review a lot, but I'm curious which you use primarily?
Amir...you are the greatest!!
I was looking for a proper USB isolator, anyone can point me in the right direction? Main usage would be oscilloscope. Many thanks!
So how DO i get rid of noise from my pc? I currently just have hdmi to my avr, and i hear all sorts of noise.
Audioquest conned me twice on the jitterbug and the diamond usb cable!
AudioQuest is nothing but a con company. none of the product work as what they claimed. i got tonnes of audioquest product, and nothing works better...
@@bryansu I bought 4m Rocket 22 cable one year ago. I feel really sorry I lost those $100.
I don't know if this will even get read. But I have an issue. I have two Adam Audio T8V connected via XLR - Cinch to a Creative Soundblaster X5 DAC which in turn is connected to my gaming PC via USB-C to USB-A 3.1. In idle I have noticable, but still quiet noise. But once I start a game or any other GPU hitting tasks the noise gets unbearable. From a quite irritating "whine" in variable frequencies to something that sounds like a constant "knock". After some research I did, I think I may have a ground loop. I am thinking of getting the Behringer HD400 to try and solve this extremely irritating problem. I was even thinking of trying these old Ferrite Rings and put them on my USB and Audio Cable. I really, really like the Adam Audio T8Vs and I am hoping that HD400 will solve it?
I have a NUC 8 feeding a usb dac/headphone amp that would make noise whenever scrolling the mouse - wired or wireless. tried bunch of hacks to no avail. Then I plug my headphone amp to a different AC wall outlet and use a different usb and rca cables. The noise disappeared! So, a cable and AC or Amp issues? I have no clue...
What I need to fix is computer noise that transfers through a USB DAC or anything connected to the PC, into my amp. Optical would probably solve this it seems as the noise only happens when stuff is connected to the PC
My Roccat mouse produces audible noise when moving it back into the dac. Maybe you need to generate audible noise to test it?
I have done that a number of times. These devices do nothing for that as ground noise goes through them. The fix for that is to use Toslink/Optical out of the PC to break the ground loop., Or use XLR balanced interconnects between DAC and amplifier.
@@AudioScienceReview great. Thanks for the reply.
You are like the lock picking lawyer or captain disillusion of audio equipment, I love it..
Underrated comment
Thank you so much for this super informative video! This is the first video I have seen on this channel, and I subscribed straight away 😁😁😁
Does your dog bark in Hi-Rez now? LOL Would like to see you check out the newer Schiit Unison USB input. Loving your vids, keep it up please!
He does. His dynamic range when barking is way beyond 16-bit CD format. My stomach literally rumbles from the power of his bark when it is dinner time! As to schiit, I did test their latest DAC, the Modi 3+ with that input: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/schiit-modi-3-review-stereo-dac.18480/
Can you test ground loop removers please?
It is hard to create a test fixture for that but I will see what I can do.
please do test to usb regen, etc
Thank you!!
More reviews of ifi gear please. I find them very interesting as a brand.
Request comparison between
computer USB Digital out
vs
streamer digital out
vs
tv box digital out (eg- mibox).
Please compare if the end analog signal from the DAC has any difference between these 3 sources as well.
I *think* I have done this comparison. Let me see if I can find it.
@@AudioScienceReview thank you Amir. When you do USB out measurement please consider measuring it in ASIO bit perfect output configuration as well. 🙏
Is this type of noise found on DACs with galvanically isolated inputs
Thanks again.
Well done!!!
Thank you for your video !
I do wonder though, if these device help with the static noise from a usb headset ?
Once again shedding light which always exposes the bs. Thanks
Once again a big thumbs up for your new format Amir. I'm a fan already and I'm sure that you will be able to reach a whole new audience via youtube.
Personally I think that besides debunking and reviews also general primers would be a worthwhile contribution.
Thanks and agreed. It may be easier to do a video tutorial on a topic than trying to write a white paper on the same topic.
Speaking of debunking, what about comparing battery versus AC powered Hifi devices ?
Keep up the good work. It's through reviews like this that people learn about scam companies and how they fleece the consumers.
Perhaps it would've been good if you included a cheap $30 usb galvanic isolator. I believe there are DACs that have and don't have galvanic isolation of the USB input.
loving the videos, long time follower
is there anything that can help (cheaply) reduce noise from my car charger to my phone? I can hear the engine rev :(
Cheers and thanks for your scientific input
Would be interesting to see a comparison of different DAC's quality. Maybe a low or medium priced DAC compared to a higher quality like Chord or Antelope or other hifi branded DACs, and why not a mastering studio DAC like Dangerous Music or such.
I have tested a number of mastering/pro DACs from RME to Universal Audio.
@@AudioScienceReview Many thanks. RME and UAudio doesn't do "mastering" DACs, although high quality interfaces, with a premium price tag.
Did you post any results you had?
...which leads me to the question- can you hear audible differences in dacs? I think yes, obviously, But you have this "poor" measuring dac, the Modi 2, and now better versions, my question is which do you prefer to listen to? Could it be the poorer performing dac sounds more pleasing? I think it is a complicated question, possibly on poor recordings the noisier dac might sound better, hiding the crap, or maybe the noise gets interpreted as "air" in the soundstage- and better performing dacs end up sounding less interesting. Which leads me to the question how do measurements, especially now that dacs for example are all measuring very high on your scale, how can we use this information to make choices? Does it end up being listening anyway? A not so veiled subjectivist/objectivist question. thanks for the videos.
Let's not forget, audioquest is the brand that also sells power and speaker cables with batteries in them..
Thank you, great video about hifi lyrics.
Your style of presentation and communication is very valuable and reaches further to those of us who prefer being walked through graphes than spending hours deciphering them. Great job!
Thanks for the video. Looking for a dac to bypass the CXA81 dac chip. I use lumin u1 mini transport and monitor audio silver 500 speakers The reason for this is that the sound of dac chip is too bright for me. If I want to select a DAC from Europe or America which one would you recommend
Great vid, and no surprises there. Test your basic raspberry pi 4 streamers yet? They seem very cost effective way to stream using an external DAC.
2, is USB connections acceptable for connecting digital audio gear compared to say co ax and or optical? So far, my reading suggests yes.
next on the list, audiophile power cables/power cords/jug cords please? we could start a deadpool this way
I had something similar to this and it made a really obvious noise go away from my usb connection. Problem is the noise is also gone now without it so I never knew if it made a difference. Definitely can’t hear a difference with the sound quality though.
Man I always loved your written reviews but these videos are even better! One can immediately tell that you're a good and competent person. Keep basing your opinions on facts and science and these scammy companies will hopefully perish
Thank you so much. Will do.
Great one Amir, I’m loving these series. One that I thought about: Raspberry Pi’s and other SBCs are quite popular for streaming these days. Would you be able to show if the USB transports (Allo USBridge, or any other digital transport for that matter) do anything good? Cheers!
Thanks. While I can show some to have different measurements than the others, I can't make a case of it mattering to the output of the DAC.
@@AudioScienceReview thanks Amir, I get what you mean. My suggestion was to measure for example, the noise (jitter) from the RP4 USB port and compare it to the one coming out from the USBridge “clean” side. I would guess they´ll differ. Then, and most importantly, hook the RP4 and USBridge to a competent DAC and measure the DAC output. My guess is that both will measure the same, making the use of a “clean” transport redundant. For taking it a bit further, you can also measure the effect on a non-competent DAC, e.g., Schiit Modi 2. Cheers!
@@joserafaelhernandezcarucci1324 USB jitter???
I've been reading your site for years, first video watch, thanks so much for what you do sir. You are a legend!