Connors wasn't even remotely interested in emulating anyone, let alone Alan Holdsworth. He had already been exploring this style with RTF. Afterward Connors made about three albums on the ECM label which were acoustic finger style improvisations. At this point, he rediscovered his electric side, and he wasn't using a pick.
True, and Holdsworth was offended by it, well to be more exact it sounds like Connors trying to sound like Holdsworth, there is some of Connors there, but not enough, I like Connors though he did not get the respect he deserved
Samuel Muniz Please check out The Jan Garbarek Group on ECM! Bill Connors was in that combo during the late 1970s and he does play Electric Guitar! I also recommend a track by Trombonist "Julien Preister", formerly with Herbie Hancock's Mwandishi Band, called "Pepo Mtoto Prologue Love, Love" which features Bill Connors on Electric Guitar! Bill plays a very cool solo! The track was released on ECM.
Despite what others may say about the Holdsworth copycat thing. I i thing Bill is still different and interesting. Some people judge him by listening to just a couple of songs. You should listen to at least the three albuns he released in the 80s. "Step it", "Double Up" and "Assembler". If you are coming from other style of music you will notice that he is more melodical and accessible composition wise and his songs are more well balanced than Holdsworth's which are over top in many ocasions. I love Holdsworth, really, but Bill has a place in my record collection and i consider him one of the top Creative Fusion guitarists of all time.
"He is more melodical and accessible composition wise and his songs are more well balanced than Holdsworth's which are over top in many ocasions." Agree with you absolutely!
@@dimitryos5254 I always felt that Holdsworth and di Meola were over the top for the sake of it; and that's all well and good, but I want to hear playing with a human heart at the center, less of the mind at work. Music is about feel, after all.
The sound may be a little closer to Holdworth's but if you listen closely you will see that his playing is very different from Holdworth's. Not to mention that Bill is a great composer, his tone is top notch and who cares if it sounds like Holdsworth. It is still good after all.
One thing that could account for some similarity between Bill and Allan is the fact they had very similar influences, the common link between them is Coltrane.
Bill is a great composer in his own right … he has a great early ECM of material steel/classical guitar based … and his Holdsworth influenced writing … his compositions … I find as interesting as Holdsworths … IMO
@@TheOwl It is very obvious that Bill was specifically attempting to emulate Allan, which I can hardly blame him for. Allan changed my life completely and now I can't get his sound out of my ears. it totally changed my guitar playing as well.
Bill Connors has always been an awesome player. But when Holdsworth came around in the 70s with Tony Williams, Gong, Jean Luc Ponty, UK, etc. there was nobody like him. Everyone's jaw dropped when they heard his beautiful, long, soaring legato runs. So it's not surprising that a few players who could would want to absorb some of his tone, voicings, sounds.
Scott you sure know your Music! '77 Had the distinct pleasure seeing & listening JL Ponty Enigmatic tour including Holdsworth, Stuermer, Steve Smith among others! Exhilarating not for casual ears! Check out AH on JLP Enigmatic 3
Allan was a phenomenon, no doubt. But in his own way, Bill is every bit as good, and in some ways, I think, arguably a better composer. It's difficult to assess differences with two musicians who are so skilled and so creative. Part of the comparison is engendered by the guitar sound, the voicings and the power trio format, but there are differences. Connors is more rooted in the groove than Holdsworth ever was, perhaps part of his American upbringing. I also think he relates to the other players more. Holdsworth was quite solipsistic, a common trait of individual genius. I suppose I would characterise it this way; Connors would have a better go at doing Holdsworth than the other way round, for what it's worth.
Yeah, it sounds like Holdsworth alright. I wish he would've made more music with the sounds he got on the Stanley Clarke solo album. (Technically his second solo album--after "Children of Forever.") Still sound pretty damn great here, however.
"Bill Connors was, to me, an example of someone who had a very unique style. I think I first heard him on a Stanley Clarke album I loved, and on that album Bill sounded like Bill Connors. Now it's like ... I don't know" - Holdsworth
It is mind boggling to me how anybody could deny that he was attempting to emulate Allan. It's incredibly obvious. Just a few moments ago, my own mother (who doesn't particularly like this music) could hear me listening to this song from the other room and said to me "Could we please listen to something other than Allan Holdsworth for once?"
@@lex.cordis Everything I read about Bill Connors, from the interviews he's given and career decisions he's made, tells me that suggestions he had a deliberate thought process of (emulating Allan Holdsworth = great success) are extremely far fetched. I think it's far more likely they took similar influences and arrived at similar musical conclusions, for lack of a better way to put it. A guy with Bill's talent who's chasing success and/or jumping onto stylistic bandwagons wouldn't have left Return to Forever and spent the next 5+ years focused on acoustic guitar.
Bills GREAT!!!! Anyone who doesnt hear that is Tone Deaf. People who dont like Bills music might enjoy the solo on Louie,Louie by the Kingsmen, its easier to digest.
@@lex.cordis It was a bit elusive. But strange enough I can't find it anymore. But anyways the best way to nail that sound, or at least gettin' close is in my view the Line 6 Space Chorus, specially on the first part of this video: ua-cam.com/video/sbBogXqRZso/v-deo.html
It is very nice playing absolutely... only trouble is, this is the first time Ive heard this song, and if I had only "heard it" on the radio, I would have sworn and bet $1000 it was Holdsworth.... but still nice playing and composition.
Interesting stuff! Checkout Scott Henderson another Chick Corea guitarist! Tracks, Calhoun & Dolemite Live! Checkout Michael Landau, He formed a Band in '83 with Vinnie Colaiuta Dog Cheese, All follow the same path!
Bill Connors was a fusion guitar pioneer and the notion that he copied Holdsworth seems silly. Just because he uses a legato approach doesn’t mean he’s copying Holdsworth. I prefer Bill’s playing to Holdsworth’s
This is definately an attempt at copping Holdsworth. You only have to listen to 'Step it' his previous attempt. God I couldn't stop laughing at how brazen it was. Even Allan, not one to criticize anyone, made a veiled comment to the effect that Connors used to have such a distinctive style "but now I just don't know".
We all learn from the people we listen to. I also like Scott Henderson, and an argument could be made that before he "whammy'd out" he was pretty influenced....
No he isn't. Holdsworth could never have played a solo as melodic as this, or with as few notes. The similarity is in the sound and the voicings, but not in the content or the compositions. I'm not saying who I think is better, only that they are quite distinct if you listen closely.
@@musopaul5407 Keep dreaming. It's clear to anyone not totally delusional that he is putting in huge effort to straight up copy Allah's sound. Allan was even kinda offended by it, saying something to the effect of: "I liked Bill Connors when he sounded like Bill Connors. Now, I just don't know..." It was obvious to everyone. Sorry, bro. There is so much of Allah's phrasing style, tone, everything being emulated here. I dig it though. Holdsworth is my musical hero, so I enjoy having more stuff like this available to listen to.
@@lex.cordis Thanks for calling me delusional! I consider myself a huge Holdsworth fan, in fact I was probably going to see him before you were born; I used to see IOU in crappy London pubs before they were called IOU, so that should give you an idea of how familiar I am with Allan's playing. Of course,, I can hear Connors's debt to Holdsworth; he's used certain elements of Allan's sound and phrasing, and he's taken some of his approach to voicings; that's not the same as being a clone. Much of the solo on this track is based on a single motif. I don't think Allan has done that in his entire career. It's also thoroughly rooted in the groove, something that Holdsworth hasn't been since he played with Soft Machine. For what it's worth, I also think Connors is a better composer. He has a clearer sense of development and structure than Holdsworth, who I think basically strings his latest favourite chords and bits together and then gets really good players to make music out of them. There are high points, like White Line and Tokyo Dream, but mostly the music is made by the performances. Connors's first record in this style, Step It, contains several real gems, like Twinkle, A Pedal and Brody that are serious pieces of music, enhanced by a great rhythm section. In the words of Stravinsky; "Good composers borrow; great composers steal!" Like I say, I can hear the debt, but it's too simplistic to write Connors off as a Holdsworth clone. Most musicians are imitators. The ones like Allan who genuinely sound like nobody else are very few and far between, and for good reason. I don't know if you ever heard him talk about his system of deriving scales? It's completely insane but it's why he sounds the way he does. Very few people would even have the patience and tenacity to do what he did, never mind the brain to come up with it. On the other hand, it's also why he never played a solo anyone could sing. Even Coltrane has bits you can cop if you've got half an ear!
This is the kind of guitar playing that I respect immensely, but find boring and soulless. It has incredible variation, tone, and skill, but lacks memorability.
All fusion is practically indistinguishable . If you listen to the charts from the old Tonight show band they are complex but are real tunes not formulas for licks and effects.
I was totally addicted to this Assembler album when it came out in 1987, and I still love it as much as ever! :)
Assembler is my favorite guitar album ever
This is immortal.
It's my go to guitar record when I have the blues.
Same hee in 2024
Superb. Bill Connors is in my top 5 list.
Connors wasn't even remotely interested in emulating anyone, let alone Alan Holdsworth. He had already been exploring this style with RTF. Afterward Connors made about three albums on the ECM label which were acoustic finger style improvisations. At this point, he rediscovered his electric side, and he wasn't using a pick.
EXACTLY!!
Please, this sounds so much like Holdsworth it isn't even funny.
True, and Holdsworth was offended by it, well to be more exact it sounds like Connors trying to sound like Holdsworth, there is some of Connors there, but not enough, I like Connors though he did not get the respect he deserved
3 notes and I was with you...
Samuel Muniz Please check out The Jan Garbarek Group on ECM! Bill Connors was in that combo during the late 1970s and he does play Electric Guitar! I also recommend a track by Trombonist "Julien Preister", formerly with Herbie Hancock's Mwandishi Band, called "Pepo Mtoto Prologue Love, Love" which features Bill Connors on Electric Guitar! Bill plays a very cool solo! The track was released on ECM.
When I first heard this I thought I was hearing a track from Holdsworth that I somehow missed. That's a great compliment to both of them.
this has got to be the most beautiful guitar solo that Bill Connors has ever recorded...and one of the most beautiful, emotional solos in fusion music
Well said. His phrasing is brilliant!
A friend back in the day said this sucked when I played it for him. He's dead now and actually I'm okay with it.
RIP, Kim Plainfield.
Despite what others may say about the Holdsworth copycat thing. I i thing Bill is still different and interesting.
Some people judge him by listening to just a couple of songs.
You should listen to at least the three albuns he released in the 80s. "Step it", "Double Up" and "Assembler".
If you are coming from other style of music you will notice that he is more melodical and accessible composition wise and
his songs are more well balanced than Holdsworth's which are over top in many ocasions. I love Holdsworth, really, but Bill has a place in my record collection and i consider him one of the top Creative Fusion guitarists of all time.
Stereo Dusk very true, his style is very different, and he doesn't get respect he deserve
Bill Connors is my favorite Fusion guitarist of all time..
"He is more melodical and accessible composition wise and
his songs are more well balanced than Holdsworth's which are over top in many ocasions."
Agree with you absolutely!
Bill uses a lot more alternate picking than Holdsworth ever did. I also enjoy his style a lot more than Holdsworth.
@@dimitryos5254 I always felt that Holdsworth and di Meola were over the top for the sake of it; and that's all well and good, but I want to hear playing with a human heart at the center, less of the mind at work. Music is about feel, after all.
One of the best solos, ever, Period!! Great Tune!!!!!
The feeling, phrasing of this solo is incredible
My cat has a thing for Bill Connors, seriously, and Holdsworth too :-)
The sound may be a little closer to Holdworth's but if you listen closely you will see that his playing is very different from Holdworth's. Not to mention that Bill is a great composer, his tone is top notch and who cares if it sounds like Holdsworth. It is still good after all.
One thing that could account for some similarity between Bill and Allan is the fact they had very similar influences, the common link between them is Coltrane.
Bill is a great composer in his own right … he has a great early ECM of material steel/classical guitar based … and his Holdsworth influenced writing … his compositions … I find as interesting as Holdsworths … IMO
@@TheOwl It is very obvious that Bill was specifically attempting to emulate Allan, which I can hardly blame him for. Allan changed my life completely and now I can't get his sound out of my ears. it totally changed my guitar playing as well.
One of the Greatest Solos ever . . .
Bill Connors has always been an awesome player. But when Holdsworth came around in the 70s with Tony Williams, Gong, Jean Luc Ponty, UK, etc. there was nobody like him. Everyone's jaw dropped when they heard his beautiful, long, soaring legato runs. So it's not surprising that a few players who could would want to absorb some of his tone, voicings, sounds.
Scott you sure know your Music! '77 Had the distinct pleasure seeing & listening JL Ponty Enigmatic tour including Holdsworth, Stuermer, Steve Smith among others! Exhilarating not for casual ears! Check out AH on JLP Enigmatic 3
Allan was a phenomenon, no doubt. But in his own way, Bill is every bit as good, and in some ways, I think, arguably a better composer. It's difficult to assess differences with two musicians who are so skilled and so creative. Part of the comparison is engendered by the guitar sound, the voicings and the power trio format, but there are differences. Connors is more rooted in the groove than Holdsworth ever was, perhaps part of his American upbringing. I also think he relates to the other players more. Holdsworth was quite solipsistic, a common trait of individual genius. I suppose I would characterise it this way; Connors would have a better go at doing Holdsworth than the other way round, for what it's worth.
After seeing Bill Connors play live Eric Johnson said he needed to get in and practice more.
Let that sink in..
I bought this one years ago, didn't make the Holdsworth connection but in his later albums he sounds like
one of my idols in my youth
Why did I miss this guy!! Amazing.
I’m still working the pentatonic scales in three keys.
Great solo.
Sounds like Jimmy Haslip on bass and Chad Wackerman on drums...great tune!!
Yeah, it sounds like Holdsworth alright. I wish he would've made more music with the sounds he got on the Stanley Clarke solo album. (Technically his second solo album--after "Children of Forever.") Still sound pretty damn great here, however.
The bassist is wonderfull!
tom kennedy..
No se trata de comparar, pero no hay que negar la influencia de Holdsworth en la música de Bill Connors.
"Bill Connors was, to me, an example of someone who had a very unique style. I think I first heard him on a Stanley Clarke album I loved, and on that album Bill sounded like Bill Connors. Now it's like ... I don't know" - Holdsworth
It is mind boggling to me how anybody could deny that he was attempting to emulate Allan. It's incredibly obvious. Just a few moments ago, my own mother (who doesn't particularly like this music) could hear me listening to this song from the other room and said to me "Could we please listen to something other than Allan Holdsworth for once?"
@@lex.cordis Everything I read about Bill Connors, from the interviews he's given and career decisions he's made, tells me that suggestions he had a deliberate thought process of (emulating Allan Holdsworth = great success) are extremely far fetched. I think it's far more likely they took similar influences and arrived at similar musical conclusions, for lack of a better way to put it. A guy with Bill's talent who's chasing success and/or jumping onto stylistic bandwagons wouldn't have left Return to Forever and spent the next 5+ years focused on acoustic guitar.
My audio reference record.
Bills GREAT!!!! Anyone who doesnt hear that is Tone Deaf. People who dont like Bills music might enjoy the solo on Louie,Louie by the Kingsmen, its easier to digest.
Does anyone know waht kind of effect he's using on this tune. Detune chorus? Micro Pitch? Help Please : )
@MorbidManMusic Thank you sir.
@@fernandes5986 What was his answer?
@@lex.cordis It was a bit elusive. But strange enough I can't find it anymore. But anyways the best way to nail that sound, or at least gettin' close is in my view the Line 6 Space Chorus, specially on the first part of this video: ua-cam.com/video/sbBogXqRZso/v-deo.html
It is very nice playing absolutely... only trouble is, this is the first time Ive heard this song, and if I had only "heard it" on the radio, I would have sworn and bet $1000 it was Holdsworth.... but still nice playing and composition.
Interesting stuff! Checkout Scott Henderson another Chick Corea guitarist! Tracks, Calhoun & Dolemite Live! Checkout Michael Landau, He formed a Band in '83 with Vinnie Colaiuta Dog Cheese, All follow the same path!
Bill Connors was a fusion guitar pioneer and the notion that he copied Holdsworth seems silly. Just because he uses a legato approach doesn’t mean he’s copying Holdsworth. I prefer Bill’s playing to Holdsworth’s
“Holdsworth” style My Ass . . .
why was Holdsworth offended by it? U are wrong
Holdsworth never had this much soul . . .
💯
HA! Yeah right
It all sounds one note short of a diatonic. LOL
HOLDSWORCONNORSHOZALNUKESQUE
This is definately an attempt at copping Holdsworth. You only have to listen to 'Step it' his previous attempt. God I couldn't stop laughing at how brazen it was. Even Allan, not one to criticize anyone, made a veiled comment to the effect that Connors used to have such a distinctive style "but now I just don't know".
We all learn from the people we listen to. I also like Scott Henderson, and an argument could be made that before he "whammy'd out" he was pretty influenced....
Holdsworth clone
I don't blame him. I fully get it.
No he isn't. Holdsworth could never have played a solo as melodic as this, or with as few notes. The similarity is in the sound and the voicings, but not in the content or the compositions. I'm not saying who I think is better, only that they are quite distinct if you listen closely.
@@musopaul5407 Keep dreaming. It's clear to anyone not totally delusional that he is putting in huge effort to straight up copy Allah's sound. Allan was even kinda offended by it, saying something to the effect of: "I liked Bill Connors when he sounded like Bill Connors. Now, I just don't know..."
It was obvious to everyone. Sorry, bro. There is so much of Allah's phrasing style, tone, everything being emulated here. I dig it though. Holdsworth is my musical hero, so I enjoy having more stuff like this available to listen to.
@@lex.cordis Thanks for calling me delusional! I consider myself a huge Holdsworth fan, in fact I was probably going to see him before you were born; I used to see IOU in crappy London pubs before they were called IOU, so that should give you an idea of how familiar I am with Allan's playing.
Of course,, I can hear Connors's debt to Holdsworth; he's used certain elements of Allan's sound and phrasing, and he's taken some of his approach to voicings; that's not the same as being a clone.
Much of the solo on this track is based on a single motif. I don't think Allan has done that in his entire career. It's also thoroughly rooted in the groove, something that Holdsworth hasn't been since he played with Soft Machine.
For what it's worth, I also think Connors is a better composer. He has a clearer sense of development and structure than Holdsworth, who I think basically strings his latest favourite chords and bits together and then gets really good players to make music out of them. There are high points, like White Line and Tokyo Dream, but mostly the music is made by the performances. Connors's first record in this style, Step It, contains several real gems, like Twinkle, A Pedal and Brody that are serious pieces of music, enhanced by a great rhythm section.
In the words of Stravinsky; "Good composers borrow; great composers steal!" Like I say, I can hear the debt, but it's too simplistic to write Connors off as a Holdsworth clone. Most musicians are imitators. The ones like Allan who genuinely sound like nobody else are very few and far between, and for good reason. I don't know if you ever heard him talk about his system of deriving scales? It's completely insane but it's why he sounds the way he does. Very few people would even have the patience and tenacity to do what he did, never mind the brain to come up with it. On the other hand, it's also why he never played a solo anyone could sing. Even Coltrane has bits you can cop if you've got half an ear!
This is the kind of guitar playing that I respect immensely, but find boring and soulless. It has incredible variation, tone, and skill, but lacks memorability.
All fusion is practically indistinguishable . If you listen to the charts from the old Tonight show band they are complex but are real tunes not formulas for licks and effects.
@@andyokus5735 wrong!
This has more soul than all the so called famous run of the mill guitarists
exactly my thaughts.
copycat
Who do you sound like?