Am a senior citizen fan of the Harry Potter books. The only "romance" that got my attention was between Arthur and Molly Weasley. Loved their interplay.
I can so agree on this. I guess it takes a lot of love and dedication to raise this many kids together and still work as a couple. I also never understood that childhood sweetheart thing. When I was a teenage girl I thought teenage boys were gross, lol. Then I made some great male friends along the way but I never liked them 'like that'. I was always into older guys waiting to grow older myself and kinda grow into the age of the guys who were attractive to me. (Didn't work...I'm 41 now and still fall for guys 20 years my senior😳). So thinking that everyone in the Potterverse grew up to marry someone they knew as a pimpled teenager is just *beyond* weird to me.
HeyyUGuys03 Agreed. They also did it with Ron, gave some of his funny lines to Hermione and tried to force Harry and hermione as a pair when they never even considered each other in the books.
Yes, but she's (hopefully) on a whole new level. Like one word can set her off and make her forget about all the love and kindness she's shown immediately and ruin it all. One wrong word.
You were absolutely right about Lupin and Tonks not making any sense. They went from hand holding at the end of book six to married at the beginning of book seven. That's only about THREE months. Tonks then gets pregnant about two months after that. Then she has a baby and thinks it's a good idea to run off to a literal war zone about a month after giving birth. She has her grief-stricken mother looking after her infant child (remember that Ted Tonks dies earlier in the book) so that she could 'be with Remus' when they both don't even survive the first round of fighting. Their relationship was insanely rushed only so that there could be another orphan that symbolically represents Harry towards the end. That never sat right with me.
Desmond Gentle Clearly that relationship began before THBP started, Tonks is heartbroken through the book because Lupin is afraid of it. For that matter, my parents met in March and married in June the same year. My big brother was born July the following year. So yeah? Tonks and Lupin at least had been aquainted for more than three months. And they were in a war, check up on war weddings and how many people had just that rushed romances. A lot of them crashed later of course, or people got killed, leaving widows and children, maybe Rowling has heard a lot of that sort of stories?
Tonk and Remus make sense. Going through trauma forges bonds that might otherwise not exist, and we don't know that they went from couple to married in three months since not all of it played out on front of Harry. Plus they knew each other longer. My husband and I went from couple to "we're getting married" in two days...after knowing each other for years. Wars create orphaned children. Tonks was out there trying to protect her child's world, just as Arthur and Molly Weasley were. In a lot of ways, Remus and Tonks make a tremendous amount of sense.
Lupin and Tonks was actually one of the only ships in the series I liked- and it wasn't even that well-written. I'm not a fan of any of the couples in the Harry Potter world, tbh.
This is my fave comment so far. I seriously don’t understand why we can’t just be simple and say what happens. It’s better and definitely closer to pg13 to leave out the details.
The worst romance I’ve read that really bugged me was from “the selection series.” I read them all because it felt like a guilty pleasure read but I was pulling my hair the whole time when America couldn’t make up her damn mind and kept stringing both boys along lol
I actually liked the sequel books more than the original trilogy. The characters are so much better. Yes, Eadlyn is an extremely annoying brat, but at least she’s meant to be unlikeable, and has a personality. And she grows into a much better person through her relationships. America was horrible to her love interests and was basically defined by them.
I read the first book and thought it had an interesting concept, but I got really bored of the series really quickly. I can't even remember it well anymore :/
Oh my god i HATE that book. I read that in highschool and i was the only one who hated it I dnf it like less than 50 pages before the ending. The main focus of my hate is same as you. How are u so confuse who u love or want? Just say you're kinky and u want both of them at the same time ughh
True... I read it until the end, just because I started it. And what's with the ending? SPOILER ALERT Did it even make sense that he saved her and then forgave her? Shouldn't she save him and prove that she loves him...?
same! i just love watching two characters come together and fight for each other, but i also HATE it when the romance is bad or rushed with two characters that didn’t have any prior chemistry. i’m quite a fan of watching the tension between characters grow and grow as they get closer until they eventually can’t hold it back anymore.
I am a writer, and I feel the same. I know, it's a crappy thing to force them in where they don't belong. It's annoying when they overtake the plot. But I can't help taking on those risks! Especially when it comes to fantasy. I just see Shakespearean romance as part of the fantasy genre. It's like dragons, or magic. Yeah, it's very often stale, and there just to be there. But it's so nice when they are done right, and I kinda miss them when they aren't there.
@@estiako8544 I recognize myself so much in your comment ! Slow building romance and characters feeling more and more in love with each other until they can't hold it anymore is my life ❤️
Call me a masochistic but I recently learn to LOVE when the couple don't end up together. I mean, when it's for a good reason, like prioritizing 'their people' or 'their duty' bc they know is the right thing to do ... I love those heart breaking goodbyes (even more than the death of one of them ) and the tears rolling down my cheeks. Other thing I think is great it's when one of them both don't like the other at the beginning but then develop the caring and loving
I'm recently writing on a book like this. My main charakters really have a crush to each other, but they are from different classes in society and Mertha chooses to remain with her family, because they are poor and when she would leave them, they would lose their source of income and Elens family is one of the most important familys of the city, so he has to marrie someone important and not just a maidservant. They do stay together a really long time though, because they are helping each other in a investigation of some mysterios crimes that threaten their familys and the government. It is a steampunk fantasy world...
@@shttt8 Thank you :) But as I said, I'm just writing it. I don't know when I will finish the first draft, so if I publish the book, it will be in four years at the earliest. Maybe even laster, because I write several things right now. (Three fantasy novels each with a unique setting, that was inspired from history and one little romance, that is more for practicing purposes, while I'm worldbuilding a few things in those fantasy worlds)
Also. My husband: I’m all for the Hermione/Draco pairing. Me: You’re off the committee. Him: Really though Hermione don’t need no man. I want her to be the next headmaster. Me: Redeemed.
I just tried to think of a romance I care about and I can’t think of any of them, whoops. SPOILER I mean I think Bill and Fleur are cute but we just didn’t get to see their relationship grow so I don’t care a LOT. It’s a super unpopular opinion but I actually only shipped one pair and it was Harry and Hermione. They were just so close and cared so much about each other. My shipping of them was reinforced in TDH when Ron left and even though it broke Hermione’s heart she chose to stand by Harry. I don’t think they’re like siblings at all, they’re just like really close friends and it was great.
Especially as a kid (9 years old) reading the first 4 books, when I got into the later books over a next couple of years when they released, i felt like romance in Harry Potter had just no meaning or relevance. Maybe it was because I didn't seek romance in books when younger. Glad to see I wasn't the only one to not like it.
It's not my favourite romance but to be fair Ron and Hermione was signposted as coming from book one. Can't remember what video it was but Merphy once said that she liked that Ron and Hermione got together but they should have broken up and we should have gone through the process of them learning to be friends again post-breakup which I totally agree with. It made complete sense for them to date, just not for them to get married.
One of my personal problems with so many of these romances is that the protagonist is usually the recipient of affection and we follow them processing it and figuring out what they want. Can’t relate!! I don’t have a trail of boys thirsting after me, I can’t relate whatsoever to “processing my feelings” and being indecisive. I rarely read stories where the protagonist wants someone and struggles to express it. I’m all about that yearning.
I totally agree, I know its fantasy and all, but reading so many of these kinds of romances is what turned me off from the genre for years. I have a lot of trouble emphasizing with the character in these moments and I just generally hate the "this guy, or that guy" instead of showing me an actual relationship
It took me so long to figure out why I was confused by the edition of Harry Potter that you're holding up until I realized it's the German one (which I grew up with) and you're not German :'D
I don't like Ron and Hermoine. I don't like Harry and Ginny. I love them all separately but the couples always seemed forced to me. Just my opinions, plz dont attack me lol
I agree. I can't think of a single canon couple (or even non-canon tbh) in that series that I cared about. I kind of liked Tonks/Lupin, but it happened mostly off-screen and honestly wasn't given enough "screentime" to be interesting.
I dig the Lily-James parallel with Harry/Ginny though. Ginny is athletic, confrontational and loves taking a piss out of people like James, and Harry usually has the Lily like soft strength. He may not be the muscle - but he's the kind of guy that can get people united. Also - Ron got treated the way Gingers get done by Brits. Sidelined to hell when you knew he has a lot more in him that you're being shown. Also - he swings between worshipping the very ground Hermione walks on and getting hyper jealous whenever a challenger approaches that strikes a chord with me. That's how most fools in love act.
@@lordmorklen5166 - yeah, but I feel like they could have done more with their relationship because it felt so sudden and slightly out of place, but it had great potential.
I agree!! So many book descriptions out there are either: 1. So vague that you asume the story will be This, but then it's actually That. 2. Outright lying! Making it seem that the story will follow a certain genre or have a certain theme, but when you read it its the complete opposite! Not all descriptions are like this, but it happens often, and I think publishers do that thinking that it will "attract a wider audience", but it's really just false advertising.
I am mostly just really glad that there was no romance between Harry and Hermione. I hate it when authors seem to think you can't be best friends with someone from the opposite sex
I don’t really understand why people don’t like Harry and Ginny because of the lack of build up. It seems to me very realistic to teenage romance. How many high schoolers date someone that they started liking years earlier? Lots of times you see a friend in a different light or just through maturing you start to like a friend. I think it would be more weird to have them get together after liking each other since middle school.
I would have liked to "SEE" them starting to like eachother. And it growing stronger where they have to acnolage it. I dislike romance of characters that are just like: surprise they Both started to like eachother at the same moment, now they are togather.
@@rosasutubechannel Well... actually Ginny liked him like in forever/ right from the beginning. In the second book she's this young girl that immensely fangirls and crushes on this famous boy (her brother's friend). She got to understand he wasn't interested in her that way and for a while she stayed embarrassed (3rd book), then she comes around and starts to date other guys (by advice from Hermione) and developes an interesting (independent, strong) personality. But she admits to Harry later on (6th or 7th book) that she never really could let go off her feelings for him). He on the other hand didn't dislike her, but was put off a bit/ embarassed by her behaviour early on. With time (and distance/ change) he grew to admire her for her strength & loyalty (4-5th book) and then got really used/ attached to her to the point he misses her (in the 6th book) and gets jealous of her boyfriend. It might not have been the best romance (of the decade/ ever), but at least it wasn't insta-love 🙈 and made a bit sense/ had development one could follow.
I don't like Lupin/Tonks because she lost all her personality when she fell for him. In "Phoenix" she's buoyant and sprightly and maybe the best thing about the fifth book, and then she becomes a love-sick Eeyore in book six, and positively tragic (in the Shakespearean sense of the word) in DH. I like both Harry/Ginny (for the reasons you say) and also Ron/Hermione, just because I like them both and think they complement each other. I know these two are based totally on JKR interviews, which are not canon (to most people), but I have no opinion on Luna/Newt Scamander's grandson, because we really don't know anything about him. I'll just say it would be understandable I think if Luna reminds him of Great Aunt Queenie. And Neville and Hannah Abbott...?? That one _really_ seems to have come out of left field!
I really liked the romances in the Harry Potter books in a sense that they were never ever the main focus of the story. It was just a natural part of the characters' coming of age story (having first crushes, kisses, jealousy etc.). And I will defend Hermione and Ron forever. I feel like people shipped Harry with Hermione ONLY because of the movies. In the books there was never chemistry between them, Harry calls her his sister. We are in his head all through the series and he had never once romantic feelings towards her. Honestly, I would have been really mad if they'd ended up together, boys and girls can actually just be friends you know. Ron and Hermione were meant to end up together from the very beginning. Having said that the last chapter should just have been left out. It's ridiculous that they all stay together. It should have just been left to the readers' imagination.
Yes, I completely agree, the last chapter was weird, but Ron and Hermione were pretty realistic, typical high school thing when friends just fall for each other. There is plenty of hints through the books since Prisoner of Azkaban. I don't think it was forced, even if Rowling said so, I think she just wanted to calm the fans that didn't like them.
While the romance in the Gentleman Bastard series isn't in any way cute or even healthy, I don't think it is badly written. It feels like the author is fully aware these two are dysfunctional together. That's kind of the point though. I think it's far more frustrating when the romance is supposed to be cute, romantic etc., but the author just botches the execution. As far as HP is concerned, I bought Harry/Ginny and even Hermione/Ron as teenage love interests (hormones being hormones and all that), but I have a very hard time picturing them as adult couples. They just don't work long term.
SPOILERS!!! I think that Harry and Ginny work together for one very important reason; they've both been royally screwed by Voldemort. There's that scene, I think in either Phoenix or Prince, where they're talking about Harry potentially being possessed, and he legitimately says to her "I forgot" when she tells him what it had been like for her. And he feels TERRIBLE for forgetting. But she's the one who's able to clear up that point for him and I think it brings them together through shared experience. That and you KNOW he'd have to be adopted into Ron's family somehow. Mrs. Weasley loved him as her own from book 1, for God's sake.
"You probably know that I don't have a heart." Merphy Napier . Feb. 13/20 aka the Tin Woodswoman type of KY. Don't think JKR knows how to write romance. And she ain't alone among authors. How much of romance is at least a fair deal about avarice (espec. if a character is less wealthy than their significant other) and lust anyway, even if a & l ain't brought up.
@@SunriseFireberry For sure. But you said "Don't think JKR knows how to write romance". I was responding to that. I think she can; you just don't see it in the Potter books.
Harry and Ginny are my favorite! They are such a healthy couple and so much fun to read. Rowling had the opportunity to use the “I have to hurt you to protect you” trope. But she didn’t! Harry just tells Ginny the truth about why they can’t be together! He just tells her the plain truth, that it’s too dangerous, that they can’t afford to get distracted. And Ginny accepts it! It was such a mature and honest conversation. I’m still amazed that a relationship like Harry and Ginny’s, which is devoid of any nonsensical angst and drama, can even exist in fiction. Also love Siri and The God King from Warbreaker, and Darcy and Elizabeth from Pride and Prejudice. But holy crap do I hate Perrin and Faile! Ugh...I mean, my baby Perrin deserves so much better. Also, Rand and Elayne were so random.
I think literally the only fantasy romance I've liked was in His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman. You really need to read it, I know it's on your radar but still :D
it's been ages since I read those and basically all I remember of the romance is Pullman twisting a knife through my chest at the end. I think that means he did it well.
I'm more and more starting to think I'm the only person who enjoyed reading about Kvothe and Denna a lot. In no way is it a healthy relationship, but I do feel like it's a lot of them both dancing around each other, terrified to make the wrong moves, and not just Denna stringing him along. And while it is frustrating, it's also very believable to me and I enjoy reading it...
with regards to romance in the Wheel of Time, Faile is the absolute worst. She straight up verbally abuses Perrin and she never really learns not to be like that. Perrin deserves so much better than her.
The interesting thing about Faile/Perrin (she often drives me mad too btw) is that Jordan, with that romance at least, seems to be aware it will not be universally loved, even aware that it's not 💯 healthy. I always think of Min's vision of Perrin being caught between a hawk and a falcon. And then when Min sees him again, she thinks something like, so he finally went with the falcon, hope it doesn't kill him. Which definitely suggested her vision portrayed the relationship as problematic. Also, Perrin's actions later on where he'll damn the whole world to get her back - the way it's written, we're not supposed to see that as a healthy or positive thing.
When you talk about books or refer to them. Could you write the title and author on the screen, because it's sometimes really hard to hear and remember what you say? And it's hard to see on the books you hold up at an angle for three seconds. :P
@@merphynapier42 : would it be possible to put some timers to the different books you discuss in the video ? So we can jump directly to a book we are really interesting in ?
I am on book 8 in the wheel of time and so far literally every romance as annoyed me or at least confused me a little and I have been totally unconvinced
Just finished #9 and I totallllly agree. All the relationships come out of absolutely nowhere and NONE of the couples have any chemistry at all 😂 I still am loving the series though!
The only one I can think of that Merphy might have been talking about was Rand and Aviendha. That one kind of made sense, in a weird 'enemies-to-lovers' way. Every other 'romance' was a bland surprise.
I feel the romantic pairing are the one area most of the fandom agrees RJ does poorly. Most of them come out of nowhere or with very little build up between “ hey my name is Egwene” and “ hey I would fight a thousand men to see you smile once more”.
"She's really really really bad at relationshiping and she's closed off and she's not trusting." Me. I accidentally wrote a chapter what was two characters who barely knew each other falling in love in about 3 hours and sleeping together beneath a stars. Yeah. This video helped me realize that was stupid. I still think it's more natural than most romcoms these days.
Didn't you know that when characters stare at eachother intensely it means they love eachother? But seriously, it always annoyed me how their relationship seemed so bland in the movies. It has no time to build up or develop naturally and is mostly composed of them staring at eachother with blank expressions or kissing in an awkwardly silent and disinterested way.
It's been a long while since I read the books, but my reading of it was that Kvothe was just infatuated (and then borderline obsessed) with her right from the start, and despite getting no real interest in return just kept pursuing her regardless of what she did. And I felt that she used him for occasional comfort or support because while she wasn't that interested in him, she didn't dislike him either and it was clear that he wasn't going to leave her alone anyway. It was really frustrating because I kept yelling at him "dude she's just not that into you move ON already" and he WOULDN'T. Mostly agree with WoT. Perrin and Faile was the most abrupt and awkward pairing I have ever read. I had to do some extreme mental gymnastics to justify it - I was on board with her being attracted to him and just deciding that he was meant to be hers, but the time it took to bullyseduce him into submission was ludicrously short. Rand and Elayne I never totally bought, though the other two were more believable to me. I think the main problem with RJ's relationship building is that the characters keep following their own plots so much that they rarely spend a decent amount of time together, so it's hard to accept that enough of the relationship is built off-page to explain the on-page romances. If that makes any sense? The most believable romances, I find, are between characters who have shared significant challenges together. Being forced to depend on each other, seeing the true mettle of the other under pressure, learning to trust the other.
They definitely do ! Well Aviendha does have a pretty good chemistry with Rand, especially in Shadow Rising and Fires of Heaven, but while I love Elayne her romance arc with Rand felt poor, almost until the end. I hope that in the show romances will be done better because Jordan kind of messed most of them up
Pierre/ENdeR I can agree with that! I actually really liked Aviendha and Rand in those two books after that it just kind of feels forced 🤷🏻♀️ I hope so too! I’m really excited for the show actually
I can see that! I actually also felt like there was some chemistry between Mat and Elayne. Her reconsidering his character really added to her own growth, which she really needed. And they had pretty good growing chemistry that could have built to a convincing romance. I thought it was a shame that wasn't explored.
I love Harry and Ginny together, even if it was maybe one book of build up. I think I once heard that Rowling was thinking about putting Hermione and Fred together and I jumped that train so fast. Sorry I would have killed off Ron to keep Fred.
Huge Harry Ginny fan. They cute!! Also hard agree on A Curse So Dark and Lonely. (Spoilers) The author made Grey such a wonderful person, and I loved our protagonist, and the whole time I kinda felt like the Prince was a bland sandwich.
cocokai Harry and Hermione are like siblings. Hermione is the annoying older sister Harry loves but doesn’t want to be around all the time. She nags him incessantly and because Harry has spent his entire life being bullied by the Dursleys, he hates being around people who boss him around. Which is what Hermione does almost constantly. He doesn’t really find Hermione a fun person to be with, and much prefers Ron’s company. He also never confides in her, and usually tends to hide his emotions from her. When he’s upset, Ron is the one who cheers him up, and Hermione actually tends to make him even more angry. They’d be miserable together. What Rowling actually said was Ron and Hermione would probably need counseling to make their relationship work. She didn’t say Harry and Hermione were perfect together. People also conveniently forget that Rowling said Harry and Ginny were soulmates.
@@rowschank Oh yeah, I agree Hermione definitely didn't bully him. She always meant well. But Harry's upbringing caused him to have a very negative reaction to people who order him around. Which is why I feel he would clash with Hermione. He's also more likely to act like a rebellious kid around her. He's afraid of confrontation so he does things like lie to her or hid things from her. He's not ready to tell her what he feel like an equal. Not exactly the sign of a healthy relationship. Whereas Harry and Ginny have more of an understanding (they were the only two children who knew what it's like to be possessed by Voldemort), they have similar senses of humor, and both were much more honest with each other. Ginny was also the only one who wasn't intimidated by Harry when he was angry, he calmed down far more quickly when she was around, and she actually found his jokes funny. And they also had similar interests, like Quidditch. So for me personally, Harry and Ginny seemed a much better relationship in every way.
Yess, totally agree that Harper should have ended up with the other male interest, they were so good together! But since this is a Beauty and the Beast retelling, I saw it coming so I wasn't that upset
When it comes to the romance in Harry Potter, I have never really invested myself in it. Many felt weird or abrupt, so I just stopped bothering. 😆 If I ship anyone in Harry Potter, it's Luna and Neville. I think they're really cute together. 🙃
Totallyyyy agree with the couple you mentioned in Oathbringer! They have a really healthy and supportive relationship that I love! What do you think of the romance in Warbreaker? 🥰
lol honestly, as a couple they are great! the build up to the coupleness, I thought, was a little lacking. especially knowing how untrusting and wary vin was. But, I haven't read that series in years so maybe I am misremembering something.
I hated them together in the first book because it felt so rushed but honestly in the next two they were adorable. I loved how they were always doing their best to support each other and respected each others individual badassery.
When you got to thee Harry Potter section, I was bracing for a rant against Harry/Ginny, but was very pleasantly surprised. They were my favorite couple in the books. Strangely, I did not like Ron/Hermione at first, but they grew on me in the movies. Go figure. Thanks for sharing this :)
Their relationship was really solidified for me in OoTP. Harry felt lonely and abandoned when Ron and Hermione became Prefects without him. And he didn’t even really want to be a Prefect. But when he was thrown out of the Quidditch team and Ginny replaced him as Seeker, he didn’t mind one bit. Quidditch is his favorite game in the world and he’s enjoyed his position as Seeker for five years. But he’s not even a little resentful that Ginny has taken his spot. In fact, he goes so far as to praise her performance. That just shows how deep their relationship is. Ginny gets allowances from Harry, where other characters don’t.
@@mikanchan322 the seeds were planted in OotP. Her confidence around Harry now because she was dating Michael, to when she scolded him for trying to avoid everyone because of his connection with Voldy, to them having their first real conversation in the library (which is when Harry not how much he enjoyed having alone time with her), to when he got on the train home and wanted her to sit with him, but she sat with her friends (which makes Harry realises how much time they haven't spent together) and him now pretty much yearning for her company
Andrew Watson to that degree yes at least for a long lasting one to start so abruptly. He has seen her make out with boys before and never felt anything for her and just suddenly he gets jealous and wants her? It wasn’t well built and I loath Ron and Hermione as a couple because the “pulling pigtails” trope is dumb
I didn't think it started that abruptly. It wasn't insta love since they at least were friends for a good while before starting to date (studies show that couples, who were good friends before dating & marrying have a about 30% less chance of divorcing I think?). And it had some build-up even if admittedly not that much. Although more would have felt overcrowded for me since the series doesn't focus on that theme primarily. I think others have mentioned it already (me too) in other comment section, but I sum it up here again. After embarassing interactions with each other in book 2 through until book 4, they start to talk more naturally with each other and confine in the other person genuinely. After his failed relationship with Cho Chang he grows on her (not because of it, but his focus shifts more towards his loyal group of friends) and misses her in book 6 when she is not around + jealousy.
@@veenarani5413 my aunt and uncle who were friends for years, abruptly started dating towards the end of high school, and now they have 6 kids. I don’t think it’s unrealistic at all. (Another funny similarity is that one of them is a redhead and one has brown hair)
See, the thing about Harry/Ginny is that I'm fine with the IDEA of them as a couple (even it's not my favorite ship for either of them), and I did like the moments they got in OOTP especially. But my problem was the execution of the writing of the moment when Harry fully realized his attraction to Ginny. Three words: Harry's chest monster. It just....that entire.....thing....makes me cringe so hard, and it makes those moments in HBP insufferable for me to read about (and it's also nearly single-handedly is the reason why HBP is my least favorite book in the series XD), and I always dread those parts. (And the movies did this couple zero favors as well.) So.....I guess what I'm saying is that I enjoy Harry/Ginny if it's anyone but JKR or Steve Kloves writing them. XP Hmm......as a massive Wheel of Time fan, I do agree that the romances are pretty rough, especially in the beginning for pretty much all of them. There's not a lot of foundation and build up until they just sort of....get started, and then it goes from there. Plus, some of them are just....always hot and cold with how much I enjoy them (Perrin's romance in particular), there's a few where I like their platonic relationship, but don't much care for romance between them, and one that I downright hate (don't think I want to say which this one is atm, bc where you're at in the series, it was still just annoying, and you haven't gotten to the parts that made me hate it, and hate the love interest in question). But there are a few relationships where, even with the rocky starts, I truly think they matured into great romances, and I love the ships to pieces. Plus, in one particular situation, there's just such a refreshing lack of rivalry between the main female characters, where they ultimately refuse to let a man come between their friendships, and I adore that to pieces, and so that fondness kind of ends up rubbing off onto the romances in question. But I do get where you're coming from. The couples can definitely be an acquired taste, and you're right that romance was not Jordan's forte.
WoT is soooooooooooo bad in the romance department. There were two or three that played out okayish, and that is as good as it gets, and the rest were worse than bad.
I agree with what you said about WoT: I love the books and most of the conflicts, but the love stories are... Meh. That actually wasn't a big problem for me, because when I read a fantasy book is to read about sweet sweet magic battles and intrigues and traumatic characters traumatic events (and 99% of the times I will happily gloss over any romantic subplot/ships), BUT it was something that I could defenetely tell. I repeat, it didn't really bother me (unless the character behaved kind of weird... Like all the events in the stone of Tear), but even someone who is 99.999% blind to romantic subplots like me could notice it.
elizabeth clark Nah Harry is too grounded for Luna. She wants freedom and adventure, he just wants stability and some normalcy. And they only really had chemistry in the movies. Book Luna is quite different, and Harry more often than not pitied her. Not exactly a good foundation for a relationship.
At the end of Order of the Phoenix when they have their sweet scene together and Harry seemed to be able to be quietly himself after all that trauma - I really thought that was the direction JKR was going in.
(maybe spoilers for Kingkiller Chronicles?) I'm gonna have to hard disagree on Kvothe and Denna. Not because it was a perfect, lovely relationship, because it clearly wasn't, but because of how real it felt. When Denna unexpectedly enters the scene, you feel exactly how Kvothe's heart swells. You feel his concern for her when she talks about her patron, and you feel his heart sink when she suddenly disappears. The banter between them is so well-crafted, and the moments they spent together had the potential to be the sweetest, or the most heartbreaking scenes in the story. I admit, it drove me nuts the whole way through because of how "cat-and-mouse" it felt, but you start to see it from Denna's perspective too, and it says a lot both characters' personalities. Denna truly wants Kvothe, and I never saw her inconsistency as a game she plays with him; she just doesn't know how to keep someone in her life because all of her relationships end so swiftly. I found the romance between them was always the reason I wanted to keep reading on. I looked forward to the time they spent together even though I knew it probably wasn't going to end well. What I did have a problem with was the Felurian bit in Book 2, and how Kvothe goes from being a hopeless romantic to a sex god in just a few chapters. I liked him more when he was painfully oblivious to women.
Agreed. I find romance the most boring to read about. I do like watching videos about romances done bad. I want to hear about the badly written ones and that's it.
Ginny and Harry are adorable together! . . Spoiler for a Curse so Dark and Lonely coming Spoiler for a Curse so Dark and Lonely coming Spoiler for a Curse so Dark and Lonely coming . . . Harper and Grey should have been together, they had so much more chemistry! And I ship Jake and Noah
Didn't like ANY of the pairings in Harry Potter. Hermoine should have ended up with Krum WHO NOTICED SHE WAS A GIRL IMMEDIATELY. Ginny and Neville should have gotten together. Harry and Ron weren't emotionally mature enough for anyone during that series, imho.
SPOILERS AHEAD! This will be a bit of a rant but, another poor romance (imo) is the Red Queen series! I reaaallly didn’t like that Mare ended up with Cal, he was such a jerk! He was so hot and cold and was NEVER there for Mare but expected her to abandon ALL HER GOALS IN LIFE just so he can “have her” he treats her like an object and literally puts her in danger by becoming king! IMO Kilorn should’ve ended up with her. He was such a brave character and deserved WAAAAY more page time then he got. He was always there for Mare and was willing to fight for her even though he was a red.
Even though some people may disagree, I LOVE the relationship between Harry and ginny in the books. It feels so real and somehow mature. Ginny is a great character with an absolutely strong personality. I'm happy she ended up with harry
The WOT romances are so bad because RJ's women all think men are stupid and the men think women are stupid. So it's all power games and disrespect at the base of the relationships. Most the relationships are complicated by characters being Ta'veren and warping reality around them (thus Rand with his quasi-harem). Only one relationship in the series works well (I think) once you are stuck in those boundaries. It'll be interesting to see what you think of it when you get much further in the series and see it.
Omg nooo, Ron and Hermione MAKE ALL THE SENSE IN THE WORLD. Harry and Ginny are kinda meh. TONKS AND LUPIN ARE PERFECT TOGETHER, DONT TAKE THAT AWAY FROM ME
As someone who read books 1 2 3 5 of Harry Potter first, I don't know why people say that Harry and Ginny shouldn't be together. I had more or less completely ignored HP before then and I don't think I knew much about them, but at the end of 5, I thought Ginny was going out with Dean just to reassure Harry that not everyone was going to want to date him now that he was popular again. To me, Harry and Hermione wouldn't have made sense.
I think it was something that was bubbling in the fandom but didn't truely explode till JK expressed that her views on certain pairings were now different. Harry and Hermione were already a staple fan ship but that definitely stoked the flames even more.
I'm pretty sure the greatest romance of all time in fantasy books is the cersei-jaime romance. How many love stories in books can you say changed it's world more than those two.
I'm so happy. I thought I was the only one that doesn't like Ron and Hermoine together. Hermoine and Harry seems worse though. I like Hermoine with Krum.
See I liked Hermione and Harry and thought the last book where they were alone and relying on each other and trying to cheer each other up was really sweet and the fact that they are very comfortable with one another shows a nice bond that I could see growing not that they should have just been boyfriend and girlfriend from there on out but maybe that friendship could have grown more. Hermione and Krum is interesting but I never felt I knew krum well
@@michaelinman7456 Honestly I couldn't see Harry with anyone during the time reading it. I am Asexual so sometimes I struggle with romantic sub-plots and I look at the emotional connections and relationships built on that more than "He likes her and she likes him" kinda thing. Hermione would have been good on her own for sure. I do think they would have made a good couple after they grew up a little bit. Harry had a lot of insecurities and Hermione had a lot of drive and ambition that really didn't seem to fit well into being in a relationship. So both of them being in a relationship and married within a few years of leaving Hogwarts never set well with me.
Have you finished reading The Rage of Dragons yet? I find myself *burning to know if you love it still* after you talked about it. *spoiler for Harry Potter* 13:29 THANK-YOU. I had a feeling you'd be on that page about Hermione and Ron (I haven't watched enough of your videos it seems). They're a "convenient" couple and it bugs me. And I TOTALLY agree with Harry and Ginny too. :)
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. I love hermione and Ron together (also really like Harry and Ginny together so I’m with you there)
@@Gustavo-so7zk And I respectfully disagree with your disagreement. (Fully acknowledging both our opinions matter.) JKR only put them together to satisfy her childhood dream of them being together. When she started HP they were going to end up together - and truly, the Hermione and Ron in the first two books were ickle-cute. But over the course of the 7 books they *changed* and *grew* as people - and rightfully so. They were too different when everything was over and JKR acknowledged that. I won't get into the fact that Ron was a giant arse to her most of the time, but my point is that they grew away from the characters that JKR had initially envisioned being a couple. It was ... *wrong* by the end. And completely unrealistic given everything that had happened between them when there wasn't *fluff* crammed in for the sake of being crammed in. This pairing is beyond *wrong* on so many levels.
Mika Oh I’m going to have to disagree again. In the first book we see Ron and Hermione are basically opposites and there’s the classic scene where hermione overhears Ron being an asshole and then of course by the end of the book they have made up. Similarly in the third book they’re basically at each other’s throats until Ron realizes he was being an ass and apologizes to her, which is insane in my opinion, because how often do you actually see Ron apologize or admit he has screwed up in the series? That’s some character development. Throughout the books we see this theme of hermione and Ron getting into arguments and realizing that they made mistakes and apologizing to each other. I think the notion that good couples shouldn’t argue is ridiculous. I think good couples should be able to make it out of arguments loving each other more than ever. I will concede that Ron and hermione’s relationship gets pretty ugly in the half blood prince with lavender, mcclagen, and all of the jealousy that went down, but I think that in the deathly hallows they matured an incredible amount, and you really see their love in that book, especially Ron’s ridiculous character development when he’s going out of his way to be kind and polite towards hermione, as he had never made an effort to be polite to really anyone. He also goes out of his way to be more respectful towards the things that she cares about. Pretty much the only time he is a dick is when he is under the influence of the horcrux which in my opinion does not count at all, and when hermione is getting tortured his devastation is pretty telling. Overall I feel that Ron and hermione are perfect towards each other especially having matured out of their petty teenage states.
I also love the Harry & Ginny relationship, I think they work well together, and while I would have liked more build up, I don't think it's unconvincing for teenagers to not have a huge amount of build up.
Also, I always think that there actually is a lot more build-up, because we see them both mature and grow into themselves, which is part of why they fall for each other! The build up came before there were canonical feelings in my opinion. Friendship and respect can be an amazing base to a relationship and it's partly why they can have so many mature conversations.
Six of crows did an amazing job at making the romance a side plot but also involving it in the main plot. Plus the couples just pair each other so well. And two of the pairs have history one of them trust the other the other not so much. Waylan can sunshine... that’s all I need to say for that couple. But keneji is my favorite
In one book series I've read, it is a fantasy series with a lot of romance weaved into the story and it is done great. All the characters who end up in a relationship have been shown how the relationship has been created. For example, one couple doesn't get together until the end of the last book, but it is a beautiful moment between the two who have had a really close friendship for all of the books. Another pair get together during the second books out of four, and it shows them growing in their relationship and dealing with all the obstacles of their lives. Also, they are all gay which is awesome.
I kinda feel like sometimes authors add in romance sub plots just because everyone expects them to, not because it’s an authentic and touching addition
I personally love Katsa and Po in Graceling. I loved the way the author built it up over time and how they treated eachother. Also a fan of Valek and Yelena in Poison Study ^^
You just made me decide to re-read all of Harry Potter when i'm done with The FInal Empire. Used to read Potter all the way through several times a year as i was really caught up in it all when growing up, but it's been nearly 8 years now... It is time!
That's a really good way of putting it. I think his biggest problem with the start-ups is how little time characters often spend together then there's suddenly a declaration they're in love. The more time spent on it, the more convincing. Some people complain Lan and Nynaeve was abrupt but there's actually so many little moments in Eye of the World before Nynaeve makes her declaration. So they're a pairing I always believed in.
I get why you don't like the sudden pairings, they can sometimes feel out of place and strained, but i wouldn't agree it is unrealistic/impossible to happen. I think that it comes down to execution and development of the romance after that sudden start. Some authors that make the choice to start a romance that way tend to also not give it enough attention to develop in a way that would make sense. Kind of like I think I need to work some romance in but I can't be bothered to spend to much time on it.
Absolutely adore Harry and Ginny as a couple. Think they were written so well. Can't understand people's criticism of there not being enough foreshadowing, and that his feelings came out of nowhere in HBP. The seeds were planted in Order of the Phoenix. From Ginny finally being able to be normal around Harry thanks to her dating Michael Corner (which Harry noted), to her scolding him for secluding himself because of his connection to Voldy (showing she cared), to them having their first real conversation in the library (which Harry enjoyed), and finally (and IMO this proves his feelings once and for all) on the train home Harry asked her to sit with him, but she sat with her friends, which made Harry realise how much (up until that year) time they never spent together, and the need he has for her presence now he has finally spent more time with her. (There was also indication in GoF.) The movies did loads of damage as well, since it's the main thing Harmoine shippers use (Because the director wanted to push Harmoine even though the book clearly shows he has no romantic feelings for her at all) and absolutely disrespecting Ron and Ginny to do so. And as for his relationship with Ginny, it's one of the healthiest relationships in all of YA and Soft fantasy. From Harry breaking up with her to protect her from Voldy, To Harry constantly ensuring she's safe by looking at the Marauder's Map, to his feeling of dread/concern when she got caught trying to take Gryffindor's Sword, to Harry not daring to call out to her when he was on his way to sacrifice himself knowing if he did he wouldn't be able to do what was needed, to his final thought being of kissing her. Their relationship (from Chamber of Secrets all the way to Deathly Hallows) was a relationship built on pure and undying love and admiration no matter the circumstance
What relashionship They don't even talked till gof In ootp It was showed that Harry listens only to Hermione When he distanced himself from everyone Order people had to specially call Hermione from her vaccation to even connect with Harry That's harmione development Imagine Harry ginny as parents And Harry distancing himself from everyone and Ginny calling Hermione so that she can talk with Harry That would be embarrassing And Harry Ginny all talks are off page So its hard to get connected with them
I do actually think Ginny is good for Harry. Despite the fact that it was abrupt, their relationship is really healthy, and really understanding. They were friends at first, which eventually turned to love. Also, most of their development as a couple did happen after the events of the seventh movie, which might have been why it seemed abrupt to people
I love a lot of things about the Wheel of Time series, but relationships were not one of them. Merphy, I have to know, which relationship in the series did you enjoy?
I love Dalinar's love interest for what she does for him and because she is a great example of a strong female character that is in no way masculine. Oh man, the Wheel of Time.... I'm trying to get through it but the romance is so cringey and even aside from that the characters make decisions that are so dumb I wonder what happened to their brains. As much as I love the idea of that series I might have to give up on it, though I'm going to give the audiobooks a shot to see if I can get through them that way.
I totally agree with you about Harry and Ginny. There was plenty of buildup in book 6 and even more if you count their friendship in book 5, and their personalities are perfect for each other
As a writer... Romance is a BIG weakness. I can see my subplot romance as bad on your list. But, maybe you can critique it better for me when its done :)
Y'know, if it's not something you like to write or you don't like how it turned out, you don't HAVE to include a romance. There's lots of books out there I think would be improved if they had no romance at all in them. I think it can get tiring to read because writers and publishers tend to assume there ALWAYS has to be romance.
![Dear Authors... Stabby, Stabby [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xBho0GKrdqo/mqdefault.jpg)
![Dear Authors... Stabby, Stabby [CC]](/img/tr.png)
Am a senior citizen fan of the Harry Potter books. The only "romance" that got my attention was between Arthur and Molly Weasley. Loved their interplay.
I can so agree on this. I guess it takes a lot of love and dedication to raise this many kids together and still work as a couple. I also never understood that childhood sweetheart thing. When I was a teenage girl I thought teenage boys were gross, lol. Then I made some great male friends along the way but I never liked them 'like that'. I was always into older guys waiting to grow older myself and kinda grow into the age of the guys who were attractive to me. (Didn't work...I'm 41 now and still fall for guys 20 years my senior😳). So thinking that everyone in the Potterverse grew up to marry someone they knew as a pimpled teenager is just *beyond* weird to me.
The only romance I liked was Bill and Fluer
Oh my god yes. I love the pairing of Bill and Fleur. I love how differently they were both brought up but yet their dynamics... I loved it.
I also love Remus and Tonks
Yes! Yes yes! Their characters are just really love able and the relationship is believable and not as out of nowhere as all the other ships in there.
It's one of my biggest peeves about the Harry Potter films that Ginny's personality is severely cut down. She is awesome in the books!
I so agree!! I loved Ginny in the books, but I she's so annoying in the movies. I hate what they did with her!
There are no Harry Potter films. Anyone who opines otherwise is a filthy liar, and an enemy of everything good and beautiful!
HeyyUGuys03 Agreed. They also did it with Ron, gave some of his funny lines to Hermione and tried to force Harry and hermione as a pair when they never even considered each other in the books.
@@Andreasdenfrie I'd say they definitely have their flaws, but overall I'm more than pleased with the adaptation that we got for the HP series 😃
I totally agree on that, I too loved her daring personality in book but in movie she is just dumb
“She’s really bad at having emotions” ME
Same like how are you supposed to show emotion
Dominique Harris emotion that i show to others: angry
mood
Yes, but she's (hopefully) on a whole new level. Like one word can set her off and make her forget about all the love and kindness she's shown immediately and ruin it all. One wrong word.
You were absolutely right about Lupin and Tonks not making any sense. They went from hand holding at the end of book six to married at the beginning of book seven. That's only about THREE months. Tonks then gets pregnant about two months after that. Then she has a baby and thinks it's a good idea to run off to a literal war zone about a month after giving birth. She has her grief-stricken mother looking after her infant child (remember that Ted Tonks dies earlier in the book) so that she could 'be with Remus' when they both don't even survive the first round of fighting. Their relationship was insanely rushed only so that there could be another orphan that symbolically represents Harry towards the end. That never sat right with me.
I agree with you. Remus should've ended up with Sirius; that would've made a lot more sense.
Desmond Gentle Clearly that relationship began before THBP started, Tonks is heartbroken through the book because Lupin is afraid of it.
For that matter, my parents met in March and married in June the same year. My big brother was born July the following year.
So yeah?
Tonks and Lupin at least had been aquainted for more than three months. And they were in a war, check up on war weddings and how many people had just that rushed romances. A lot of them crashed later of course, or people got killed, leaving widows and children, maybe Rowling has heard a lot of that sort of stories?
Tonks joins Lupin in battle because SHE IS A WARRIOR
Tonk and Remus make sense. Going through trauma forges bonds that might otherwise not exist, and we don't know that they went from couple to married in three months since not all of it played out on front of Harry. Plus they knew each other longer. My husband and I went from couple to "we're getting married" in two days...after knowing each other for years. Wars create orphaned children. Tonks was out there trying to protect her child's world, just as Arthur and Molly Weasley were. In a lot of ways, Remus and Tonks make a tremendous amount of sense.
Lupin and Tonks was actually one of the only ships in the series I liked- and it wasn't even that well-written. I'm not a fan of any of the couples in the Harry Potter world, tbh.
The phrase "and then they had sex" would honestly be a great improvement to 90% of books including a sex scene.
This is my fave comment so far. I seriously don’t understand why we can’t just be simple and say what happens. It’s better and definitely closer to pg13 to leave out the details.
I’m always disappointed when that happens lol I love steamy sex scenes
@@aberdeen0107 how does it feel to be named after the drug capital of scotland
Celina Astbury Aberdeen is not my actual name lol
Thats basically the fade to black approach. We don't need every detail, we know what happens
maybe the true meaning of Fantasy Romance in that the romance is a fantasy
If look for meaning in words you do, first you must look for words that have meaning...fortune cookies are easy.
Oof, hits us straight in the guts with facts why don't you 🙈
The worst romance I’ve read that really bugged me was from “the selection series.”
I read them all because it felt like a guilty pleasure read but I was pulling my hair the whole time when America couldn’t make up her damn mind and kept stringing both boys along lol
_Agreed_ America must be the most annoying protagonist I've ever read about...
I actually liked the sequel books more than the original trilogy. The characters are so much better. Yes, Eadlyn is an extremely annoying brat, but at least she’s meant to be unlikeable, and has a personality. And she grows into a much better person through her relationships. America was horrible to her love interests and was basically defined by them.
I read the first book and thought it had an interesting concept, but I got really bored of the series really quickly. I can't even remember it well anymore :/
Oh my god i HATE that book. I read that in highschool and i was the only one who hated it I dnf it like less than 50 pages before the ending. The main focus of my hate is same as you. How are u so confuse who u love or want? Just say you're kinky and u want both of them at the same time ughh
True... I read it until the end, just because I started it.
And what's with the ending?
SPOILER ALERT
Did it even make sense that he saved her and then forgave her?
Shouldn't she save him and prove that she loves him...?
I'm a sucker for romance, I feel like something is fundamentally missing when there is no romance, but that's just me.
same! i just love watching two characters come together and fight for each other, but i also HATE it when the romance is bad or rushed with two characters that didn’t have any prior chemistry. i’m quite a fan of watching the tension between characters grow and grow as they get closer until they eventually can’t hold it back anymore.
I am a writer, and I feel the same. I know, it's a crappy thing to force them in where they don't belong. It's annoying when they overtake the plot. But I can't help taking on those risks! Especially when it comes to fantasy. I just see Shakespearean romance as part of the fantasy genre. It's like dragons, or magic. Yeah, it's very often stale, and there just to be there. But it's so nice when they are done right, and I kinda miss them when they aren't there.
@@estiako8544 I recognize myself so much in your comment ! Slow building romance and characters feeling more and more in love with each other until they can't hold it anymore is my life ❤️
Literally same!!
SAMEEE
Call me a masochistic but I recently learn to LOVE when the couple don't end up together. I mean, when it's for a good reason, like prioritizing 'their people' or 'their duty' bc they know is the right thing to do ... I love those heart breaking goodbyes (even more than the death of one of them ) and the tears rolling down my cheeks.
Other thing I think is great it's when one of them both don't like the other at the beginning but then develop the caring and loving
Do you have any examples of books like that?
@@HelloSun567 the inheritance cicle, his dark materials, the remanent chronicles (although this is just for certain time 😁), the dark tower (book 4)
I'm recently writing on a book like this. My main charakters really have a crush to each other, but they are from different classes in society and Mertha chooses to remain with her family, because they are poor and when she would leave them, they would lose their source of income and Elens family is one of the most important familys of the city, so he has to marrie someone important and not just a maidservant.
They do stay together a really long time though, because they are helping each other in a investigation of some mysterios crimes that threaten their familys and the government. It is a steampunk fantasy world...
@@soanalaichnam344 that sounds really interesting. I'd read it
@@shttt8 Thank you :) But as I said, I'm just writing it. I don't know when I will finish the first draft, so if I publish the book, it will be in four years at the earliest. Maybe even laster, because I write several things right now. (Three fantasy novels each with a unique setting, that was inspired from history and one little romance, that is more for practicing purposes, while I'm worldbuilding a few things in those fantasy worlds)
Also. My husband: I’m all for the Hermione/Draco pairing.
Me: You’re off the committee.
Him: Really though Hermione don’t need no man. I want her to be the next headmaster.
Me: Redeemed.
I agree with both his statements
I do ship Dramoine , it would have been a whole new story of Draco
Darry anyone?
@@blackpinkluv9869 Yes!
I don't think Dramione would be a good pair if Draco wished her death in Chamber of Secrets, and that Hermione punched him in the face once.
I don’t like ANY of the romances in Harry Potter. To me they all came out of nowhere just for the sake of having couples.
I just tried to think of a romance I care about and I can’t think of any of them, whoops. SPOILER
I mean I think Bill and Fleur are cute but we just didn’t get to see their relationship grow so I don’t care a LOT. It’s a super unpopular opinion but I actually only shipped one pair and it was Harry and Hermione. They were just so close and cared so much about each other. My shipping of them was reinforced in TDH when Ron left and even though it broke Hermione’s heart she chose to stand by Harry. I don’t think they’re like siblings at all, they’re just like really close friends and it was great.
Anna Hill I wouldn’t have liked them to end up together but Harry/hermione makes way more sense to me then Ron/hermione
Especially as a kid (9 years old) reading the first 4 books, when I got into the later books over a next couple of years when they released, i felt like romance in Harry Potter had just no meaning or relevance. Maybe it was because I didn't seek romance in books when younger. Glad to see I wasn't the only one to not like it.
It's not my favourite romance but to be fair Ron and Hermione was signposted as coming from book one. Can't remember what video it was but Merphy once said that she liked that Ron and Hermione got together but they should have broken up and we should have gone through the process of them learning to be friends again post-breakup which I totally agree with. It made complete sense for them to date, just not for them to get married.
That's a good point!
I bet the die-hard Wheel of time fan buddy is Daniel lol
Nah he's more a Game of Thrones guy
@@mattkrause1573 No. He worships The Wheel Of Time series
Yea I know ha. I was gonna say Goodkind but that's just mean. I know how he feels about that guy.
Pig in a Cage I love Daniel, he always finds a way to sneak WOT in his videos even when it has nothing to do with the video 😂
@@PiginaCage wooooooooshh
One of my personal problems with so many of these romances is that the protagonist is usually the recipient of affection and we follow them processing it and figuring out what they want. Can’t relate!! I don’t have a trail of boys thirsting after me, I can’t relate whatsoever to “processing my feelings” and being indecisive. I rarely read stories where the protagonist wants someone and struggles to express it. I’m all about that yearning.
I totally agree, I know its fantasy and all, but reading so many of these kinds of romances is what turned me off from the genre for years. I have a lot of trouble emphasizing with the character in these moments and I just generally hate the "this guy, or that guy" instead of showing me an actual relationship
0:00 Merphy is officially Mrs "Okay so" XD
It took me so long to figure out why I was confused by the edition of Harry Potter that you're holding up until I realized it's the German one (which I grew up with) and you're not German :'D
Haha ich war auch erst mega verwirrt😂
I sent it to her a while ago! It's nice to see it held up
Lol
How do you send a book to Merphy?
Eyyy some other German merphy fans
Lupin in Tonks was meant to happen off screen because Harry is the least observant person ever.
I don't like Ron and Hermoine. I don't like Harry and Ginny. I love them all separately but the couples always seemed forced to me. Just my opinions, plz dont attack me lol
S and the Magic Quill Damn
I agree. I can't think of a single canon couple (or even non-canon tbh) in that series that I cared about. I kind of liked Tonks/Lupin, but it happened mostly off-screen and honestly wasn't given enough "screentime" to be interesting.
Tbh, the only one that makes sense is Ron and hermionie.
I dig the Lily-James parallel with Harry/Ginny though. Ginny is athletic, confrontational and loves taking a piss out of people like James, and Harry usually has the Lily like soft strength. He may not be the muscle - but he's the kind of guy that can get people united. Also - Ron got treated the way Gingers get done by Brits. Sidelined to hell when you knew he has a lot more in him that you're being shown. Also - he swings between worshipping the very ground Hermione walks on and getting hyper jealous whenever a challenger approaches that strikes a chord with me. That's how most fools in love act.
@@lordmorklen5166 - yeah, but I feel like they could have done more with their relationship because it felt so sudden and slightly out of place, but it had great potential.
You should do a Dear Authors on book descriptions. I've had books recommended to me that were great but the description would be meh.
I agree!! So many book descriptions out there are either:
1. So vague that you asume the story will be This, but then it's actually That.
2. Outright lying! Making it seem that the story will follow a certain genre or have a certain theme, but when you read it its the complete opposite!
Not all descriptions are like this, but it happens often, and I think publishers do that thinking that it will "attract a wider audience", but it's really just false advertising.
@@100lovenana 100% agree
@Do not go insane like me so true 😂
I am mostly just really glad that there was no romance between Harry and Hermione. I hate it when authors seem to think you can't be best friends with someone from the opposite sex
Harry luna , Harry Ginny could have been just friends
I don’t really understand why people don’t like Harry and Ginny because of the lack of build up. It seems to me very realistic to teenage romance. How many high schoolers date someone that they started liking years earlier? Lots of times you see a friend in a different light or just through maturing you start to like a friend. I think it would be more weird to have them get together after liking each other since middle school.
In the wizarding world, it makes sense that people marry those they dated in high school, because that is when the rest of your life is planned out.
Oh sorry, I just reread your comment and you weren't talking about what I was... but you do have a good point.
I would have liked to "SEE" them starting to like eachother. And it growing stronger where they have to acnolage it. I dislike romance of characters that are just like: surprise they Both started to like eachother at the same moment, now they are togather.
@@rosasutubechannel
Well... actually Ginny liked him like in forever/ right from the beginning.
In the second book she's this young girl that immensely fangirls and crushes on this famous boy (her brother's friend). She got to understand he wasn't interested in her that way and for a while she stayed embarrassed (3rd book), then she comes around and starts to date other guys (by advice from Hermione) and developes an interesting (independent, strong) personality.
But she admits to Harry later on (6th or 7th book) that she never really could let go off her feelings for him).
He on the other hand didn't dislike her, but was put off a bit/ embarassed by her behaviour early on. With time (and distance/ change) he grew to admire her for her strength & loyalty (4-5th book) and then got really used/ attached to her to the point he misses her (in the 6th book) and gets jealous of her boyfriend.
It might not have been the best romance (of the decade/ ever), but at least it wasn't insta-love 🙈 and made a bit sense/ had development one could follow.
@@sammyruncorn4165... True, my bad. I guess that is more Ron and Hermiony.
I don't like Lupin/Tonks because she lost all her personality when she fell for him. In "Phoenix" she's buoyant and sprightly and maybe the best thing about the fifth book, and then she becomes a love-sick Eeyore in book six, and positively tragic (in the Shakespearean sense of the word) in DH.
I like both Harry/Ginny (for the reasons you say) and also Ron/Hermione, just because I like them both and think they complement each other.
I know these two are based totally on JKR interviews, which are not canon (to most people), but I have no opinion on Luna/Newt Scamander's grandson, because we really don't know anything about him. I'll just say it would be understandable I think if Luna reminds him of Great Aunt Queenie. And Neville and Hannah Abbott...?? That one _really_ seems to have come out of left field!
I really liked the romances in the Harry Potter books in a sense that they were never ever the main focus of the story. It was just a natural part of the characters' coming of age story (having first crushes, kisses, jealousy etc.).
And I will defend Hermione and Ron forever. I feel like people shipped Harry with Hermione ONLY because of the movies. In the books there was never chemistry between them, Harry calls her his sister. We are in his head all through the series and he had never once romantic feelings towards her. Honestly, I would have been really mad if they'd ended up together, boys and girls can actually just be friends you know.
Ron and Hermione were meant to end up together from the very beginning. Having said that the last chapter should just have been left out. It's ridiculous that they all stay together. It should have just been left to the readers' imagination.
.....When the AUTHOR says the ship was forced, stop defending it as right. It was forced. Stop fighting it.
@@samanthazellers4620 The author said many things
Yes, I completely agree, the last chapter was weird, but Ron and Hermione were pretty realistic, typical high school thing when friends just fall for each other. There is plenty of hints through the books since Prisoner of Azkaban. I don't think it was forced, even if Rowling said so, I think she just wanted to calm the fans that didn't like them.
I actually shipped Ron and hermione from the beginning
I love this comment, but still, Rowling is just not good at writing romance you care about
While the romance in the Gentleman Bastard series isn't in any way cute or even healthy, I don't think it is badly written. It feels like the author is fully aware these two are dysfunctional together. That's kind of the point though.
I think it's far more frustrating when the romance is supposed to be cute, romantic etc., but the author just botches the execution.
As far as HP is concerned, I bought Harry/Ginny and even Hermione/Ron as teenage love interests (hormones being hormones and all that), but I have a very hard time picturing them as adult couples. They just don't work long term.
OMG!! I KNEW MERPHY LOOKED FAMILIAR! she looks like lacey chabert/gretchen from mean girls.
She hears that constantly
@@AmeliaOak really? It just hit me. Ive been watching her for a couple months lol
Tony she recently showed all the celebrities that people are always telling her she looks like lmao!
@@AmeliaOak lol thats funny
Hard disagree, but maybe it's because Lacey Chabert was my first celebrity crush.
Jeans romance in Red Sea under Red Skies is sweet, and sad.
SPOILERS!!!
I think that Harry and Ginny work together for one very important reason; they've both been royally screwed by Voldemort. There's that scene, I think in either Phoenix or Prince, where they're talking about Harry potentially being possessed, and he legitimately says to her "I forgot" when she tells him what it had been like for her. And he feels TERRIBLE for forgetting. But she's the one who's able to clear up that point for him and I think it brings them together through shared experience. That and you KNOW he'd have to be adopted into Ron's family somehow. Mrs. Weasley loved him as her own from book 1, for God's sake.
"You probably know that I don't have a heart."
Merphy Napier . Feb. 13/20
aka the Tin Woodswoman type of KY.
Don't think JKR knows how to write romance. And she ain't alone among authors. How much of romance is at least a fair deal about avarice (espec. if a character is less wealthy than their significant other) and lust anyway, even if a & l ain't brought up.
TimeAndChance I think she does relationships in the Cormoran Strike books really well.
@@HunchbackJack Merphy N. wuz talkin' 'bout dem Potter books.
I agree with you, mate. JKR's romance is so bland and just comes out of nowhere
First Fantastic Beasts had a pretty sweet romance imo.
@@SunriseFireberry For sure. But you said "Don't think JKR knows how to write romance". I was responding to that. I think she can; you just don't see it in the Potter books.
Harry and Ginny are my favorite! They are such a healthy couple and so much fun to read. Rowling had the opportunity to use the “I have to hurt you to protect you” trope. But she didn’t! Harry just tells Ginny the truth about why they can’t be together! He just tells her the plain truth, that it’s too dangerous, that they can’t afford to get distracted. And Ginny accepts it! It was such a mature and honest conversation. I’m still amazed that a relationship like Harry and Ginny’s, which is devoid of any nonsensical angst and drama, can even exist in fiction.
Also love Siri and The God King from Warbreaker, and Darcy and Elizabeth from Pride and Prejudice.
But holy crap do I hate Perrin and Faile! Ugh...I mean, my baby Perrin deserves so much better. Also, Rand and Elayne were so random.
Harry Ginny were so forced and rushed
I think literally the only fantasy romance I've liked was in His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman. You really need to read it, I know it's on your radar but still :D
Yes!
Great rec.
it's been ages since I read those and basically all I remember of the romance is Pullman twisting a knife through my chest at the end. I think that means he did it well.
@@雷-t3j Yeah! I've never been one for romance, but maybe it's because of that hahaha
I love how Corey keeps commenting from a distance (did I spell his name right? Sorry if I didn’t). You guys are so funny and sweet together!
So you like how this youtube channel--which isn't themed as a romance--has a cute romance subplot in the episode about cute romance subplots? Agreed!
Nonetheless Zero hahaha you read my mind!
I think his name is written with a K instead of C 😃
I'm more and more starting to think I'm the only person who enjoyed reading about Kvothe and Denna a lot. In no way is it a healthy relationship, but I do feel like it's a lot of them both dancing around each other, terrified to make the wrong moves, and not just Denna stringing him along. And while it is frustrating, it's also very believable to me and I enjoy reading it...
with regards to romance in the Wheel of Time, Faile is the absolute worst. She straight up verbally abuses Perrin and she never really learns not to be like that. Perrin deserves so much better than her.
The interesting thing about Faile/Perrin (she often drives me mad too btw) is that Jordan, with that romance at least, seems to be aware it will not be universally loved, even aware that it's not 💯 healthy. I always think of Min's vision of Perrin being caught between a hawk and a falcon. And then when Min sees him again, she thinks something like, so he finally went with the falcon, hope it doesn't kill him. Which definitely suggested her vision portrayed the relationship as problematic. Also, Perrin's actions later on where he'll damn the whole world to get her back - the way it's written, we're not supposed to see that as a healthy or positive thing.
When you talk about books or refer to them. Could you write the title and author on the screen, because it's sometimes really hard to hear and remember what you say? And it's hard to see on the books you hold up at an angle for three seconds. :P
I always have them all in the description of the video with links :)
@@merphynapier42 Ooh, dear, I hadn't noticed! Thank you! :)
@@merphynapier42 : would it be possible to put some timers to the different books you discuss in the video ? So we can jump directly to a book we are really interesting in ?
I am on book 8 in the wheel of time and so far literally every romance as annoyed me or at least confused me a little and I have been totally unconvinced
@Matthew yeah that's true but they also just don't seem to ever like each other very much. As in like each others personalities and get along
Just finished #9 and I totallllly agree. All the relationships come out of absolutely nowhere and NONE of the couples have any chemistry at all 😂 I still am loving the series though!
The only one I can think of that Merphy might have been talking about was Rand and Aviendha. That one kind of made sense, in a weird 'enemies-to-lovers' way. Every other 'romance' was a bland surprise.
I feel the romantic pairing are the one area most of the fandom agrees RJ does poorly. Most of them come out of nowhere or with very little build up between “ hey my name is Egwene” and “ hey I would fight a thousand men to see you smile once more”.
Even Lan and Nynaeve? :(
"She's really really really bad at relationshiping and she's closed off and she's not trusting." Me.
I accidentally wrote a chapter what was two characters who barely knew each other falling in love in about 3 hours and sleeping together beneath a stars. Yeah. This video helped me realize that was stupid. I still think it's more natural than most romcoms these days.
I will always love my Vin and Elend and their story. Thems my babys
I was surprised, when you showed the german edition of Harry Potter and the sorcerer's stone. I didn't exspect that!! :D Greetings from Germany!! :)
The movies didn’t do the Harry and Ginny pairing justice.
*intensely stares at eachother as she ties his shoelaces*
@@Someone-or8tp 😂true
I didn't like Harry and Ginny even in the books.
Didn't you know that when characters stare at eachother intensely it means they love eachother? But seriously, it always annoyed me how their relationship seemed so bland in the movies. It has no time to build up or develop naturally and is mostly composed of them staring at eachother with blank expressions or kissing in an awkwardly silent and disinterested way.
It's been a long while since I read the books, but my reading of it was that Kvothe was just infatuated (and then borderline obsessed) with her right from the start, and despite getting no real interest in return just kept pursuing her regardless of what she did. And I felt that she used him for occasional comfort or support because while she wasn't that interested in him, she didn't dislike him either and it was clear that he wasn't going to leave her alone anyway. It was really frustrating because I kept yelling at him "dude she's just not that into you move ON already" and he WOULDN'T.
Mostly agree with WoT. Perrin and Faile was the most abrupt and awkward pairing I have ever read. I had to do some extreme mental gymnastics to justify it - I was on board with her being attracted to him and just deciding that he was meant to be hers, but the time it took to bullyseduce him into submission was ludicrously short. Rand and Elayne I never totally bought, though the other two were more believable to me. I think the main problem with RJ's relationship building is that the characters keep following their own plots so much that they rarely spend a decent amount of time together, so it's hard to accept that enough of the relationship is built off-page to explain the on-page romances. If that makes any sense?
The most believable romances, I find, are between characters who have shared significant challenges together. Being forced to depend on each other, seeing the true mettle of the other under pressure, learning to trust the other.
Aviendha and Elayne (sp?) have better chemistry than either of them do with their love interest and no one can convince me otherwise
They definitely do ! Well Aviendha does have a pretty good chemistry with Rand, especially in Shadow Rising and Fires of Heaven, but while I love Elayne her romance arc with Rand felt poor, almost until the end. I hope that in the show romances will be done better because Jordan kind of messed most of them up
Pierre/ENdeR I can agree with that! I actually really liked Aviendha and Rand in those two books after that it just kind of feels forced 🤷🏻♀️ I hope so too! I’m really excited for the show actually
I can see that! I actually also felt like there was some chemistry between Mat and Elayne. Her reconsidering his character really added to her own growth, which she really needed. And they had pretty good growing chemistry that could have built to a convincing romance. I thought it was a shame that wasn't explored.
I love Harry and Ginny together, even if it was maybe one book of build up. I think I once heard that Rowling was thinking about putting Hermione and Fred together and I jumped that train so fast. Sorry I would have killed off Ron to keep Fred.
I've never even considered Hermione and Fred but now that I think about it that would've been amazing.
Huge Harry Ginny fan. They cute!!
Also hard agree on A Curse So Dark and Lonely.
(Spoilers)
The author made Grey such a wonderful person, and I loved our protagonist, and the whole time I kinda felt like the Prince was a bland sandwich.
Kylie Harry and Ginny are my OTP. They are such an underrated couple!
I love Ginny she was sneaky like her brothers
Disagree. They were awful together. Both in the book and on screen. Even JKR says she regrets not having Harry and Hermione end up together.
cocokai Harry and Hermione are like siblings. Hermione is the annoying older sister Harry loves but doesn’t want to be around all the time. She nags him incessantly and because Harry has spent his entire life being bullied by the Dursleys, he hates being around people who boss him around. Which is what Hermione does almost constantly. He doesn’t really find Hermione a fun person to be with, and much prefers Ron’s company. He also never confides in her, and usually tends to hide his emotions from her. When he’s upset, Ron is the one who cheers him up, and Hermione actually tends to make him even more angry. They’d be miserable together.
What Rowling actually said was Ron and Hermione would probably need counseling to make their relationship work. She didn’t say Harry and Hermione were perfect together. People also conveniently forget that Rowling said Harry and Ginny were soulmates.
@@rowschank Oh yeah, I agree Hermione definitely didn't bully him. She always meant well. But Harry's upbringing caused him to have a very negative reaction to people who order him around. Which is why I feel he would clash with Hermione. He's also more likely to act like a rebellious kid around her. He's afraid of confrontation so he does things like lie to her or hid things from her. He's not ready to tell her what he feel like an equal. Not exactly the sign of a healthy relationship.
Whereas Harry and Ginny have more of an understanding (they were the only two children who knew what it's like to be possessed by Voldemort), they have similar senses of humor, and both were much more honest with each other. Ginny was also the only one who wasn't intimidated by Harry when he was angry, he calmed down far more quickly when she was around, and she actually found his jokes funny. And they also had similar interests, like Quidditch. So for me personally, Harry and Ginny seemed a much better relationship in every way.
Yess, totally agree that Harper should have ended up with the other male interest, they were so good together! But since this is a Beauty and the Beast retelling, I saw it coming so I wasn't that upset
When it comes to the romance in Harry Potter, I have never really invested myself in it. Many felt weird or abrupt, so I just stopped bothering. 😆
If I ship anyone in Harry Potter, it's Luna and Neville. I think they're really cute together. 🙃
CAUGHT IN A BAD ROMANCE! - Lady Gaga
Surprised no one mentioned this yet! ;P
I’ll be interested in what you think of the Rage of Dragons romance when you’re done with the book...
Lol
I really like the romance in warbreaker from Brandon Sanderson
Same here- Siri and Susebron's relationship was very sweet.
Poemado yaassss my absolute favorite!
Totallyyyy agree with the couple you mentioned in Oathbringer! They have a really healthy and supportive relationship that I love! What do you think of the romance in Warbreaker? 🥰
I was waiting for Vin and Elend to show up on the good list ;-;
How could she? 😐😂
I love Vin and Elend's relationship- actually, I just love everything about Mistborn in general
@@dreamingblue3939 I mean who doesn't right xD
lol honestly, as a couple they are great! the build up to the coupleness, I thought, was a little lacking. especially knowing how untrusting and wary vin was. But, I haven't read that series in years so maybe I am misremembering something.
I hated them together in the first book because it felt so rushed but honestly in the next two they were adorable. I loved how they were always doing their best to support each other and respected each others individual badassery.
Harry and Ginny wasnt abrupt, you could already see small things in the 5th book when they decided to finally give Ginny more page time.
When you got to thee Harry Potter section, I was bracing for a rant against Harry/Ginny, but was very pleasantly surprised. They were my favorite couple in the books. Strangely, I did not like Ron/Hermione at first, but they grew on me in the movies. Go figure. Thanks for sharing this :)
I loved this video!! I also love Harry and Ginny together! They just seemed to click in a way that other couples in the series didn’t.
Yes, I pretty much shipped them since book 2, so I was super happy when they got together.
Their relationship was really solidified for me in OoTP. Harry felt lonely and abandoned when Ron and Hermione became Prefects without him. And he didn’t even really want to be a Prefect. But when he was thrown out of the Quidditch team and Ginny replaced him as Seeker, he didn’t mind one bit. Quidditch is his favorite game in the world and he’s enjoyed his position as Seeker for five years. But he’s not even a little resentful that Ginny has taken his spot. In fact, he goes so far as to praise her performance. That just shows how deep their relationship is. Ginny gets allowances from Harry, where other characters don’t.
Like how? Genuinely curious because I really didn't feel it when reading the books ;_;
@@mikanchan322 the seeds were planted in OotP. Her confidence around Harry now because she was dating Michael, to when she scolded him for trying to avoid everyone because of his connection with Voldy, to them having their first real conversation in the library (which is when Harry not how much he enjoyed having alone time with her), to when he got on the train home and wanted her to sit with him, but she sat with her friends (which makes Harry realises how much time they haven't spent together) and him now pretty much yearning for her company
Re Harry and Ginny: is it so unbelievable for a teenage romance to start abruptly?
I don't think so. Especially given Harry's general lack of healthy relationships at all.
Andrew Watson to that degree yes at least for a long lasting one to start so abruptly. He has seen her make out with boys before and never felt anything for her and just suddenly he gets jealous and wants her? It wasn’t well built and I loath Ron and Hermione as a couple because the “pulling pigtails” trope is dumb
Probably not. But for them to end up married? That's not believable at all.
I didn't think it started that abruptly.
It wasn't insta love since they at least were friends for a good while before starting to date (studies show that couples, who were good friends before dating & marrying have a about 30% less chance of divorcing I think?).
And it had some build-up even if admittedly not that much.
Although more would have felt overcrowded for me since the series doesn't focus on that theme primarily.
I think others have mentioned it already (me too) in other comment section, but I sum it up here again.
After embarassing interactions with each other in book 2 through until book 4, they start to talk more naturally with each other and confine in the other person genuinely. After his failed relationship with Cho Chang he grows on her (not because of it, but his focus shifts more towards his loyal group of friends) and misses her in book 6 when she is not around + jealousy.
@@veenarani5413 my aunt and uncle who were friends for years, abruptly started dating towards the end of high school, and now they have 6 kids. I don’t think it’s unrealistic at all. (Another funny similarity is that one of them is a redhead and one has brown hair)
See, the thing about Harry/Ginny is that I'm fine with the IDEA of them as a couple (even it's not my favorite ship for either of them), and I did like the moments they got in OOTP especially. But my problem was the execution of the writing of the moment when Harry fully realized his attraction to Ginny. Three words: Harry's chest monster. It just....that entire.....thing....makes me cringe so hard, and it makes those moments in HBP insufferable for me to read about (and it's also nearly single-handedly is the reason why HBP is my least favorite book in the series XD), and I always dread those parts. (And the movies did this couple zero favors as well.) So.....I guess what I'm saying is that I enjoy Harry/Ginny if it's anyone but JKR or Steve Kloves writing them. XP
Hmm......as a massive Wheel of Time fan, I do agree that the romances are pretty rough, especially in the beginning for pretty much all of them. There's not a lot of foundation and build up until they just sort of....get started, and then it goes from there. Plus, some of them are just....always hot and cold with how much I enjoy them (Perrin's romance in particular), there's a few where I like their platonic relationship, but don't much care for romance between them, and one that I downright hate (don't think I want to say which this one is atm, bc where you're at in the series, it was still just annoying, and you haven't gotten to the parts that made me hate it, and hate the love interest in question). But there are a few relationships where, even with the rocky starts, I truly think they matured into great romances, and I love the ships to pieces. Plus, in one particular situation, there's just such a refreshing lack of rivalry between the main female characters, where they ultimately refuse to let a man come between their friendships, and I adore that to pieces, and so that fondness kind of ends up rubbing off onto the romances in question. But I do get where you're coming from. The couples can definitely be an acquired taste, and you're right that romance was not Jordan's forte.
To me the "Harry Potter" example is like how you described "Wheel of Time:" came out of nowhere when I first read it, makes more sense when I reread.
WoT is soooooooooooo bad in the romance department. There were two or three that played out okayish, and that is as good as it gets, and the rest were worse than bad.
I agree with what you said about WoT: I love the books and most of the conflicts, but the love stories are... Meh. That actually wasn't a big problem for me, because when I read a fantasy book is to read about sweet sweet magic battles and intrigues and traumatic characters traumatic events (and 99% of the times I will happily gloss over any romantic subplot/ships), BUT it was something that I could defenetely tell. I repeat, it didn't really bother me (unless the character behaved kind of weird... Like all the events in the stone of Tear), but even someone who is 99.999% blind to romantic subplots like me could notice it.
I wish Harry and Luna would have ended up together.
Yasssss. You're an intellectual.
elizabeth clark Nah Harry is too grounded for Luna. She wants freedom and adventure, he just wants stability and some normalcy. And they only really had chemistry in the movies. Book Luna is quite different, and Harry more often than not pitied her. Not exactly a good foundation for a relationship.
At the end of Order of the Phoenix when they have their sweet scene together and Harry seemed to be able to be quietly himself after all that trauma - I really thought that was the direction JKR was going in.
I wish Harry Hermione would
(maybe spoilers for Kingkiller Chronicles?)
I'm gonna have to hard disagree on Kvothe and Denna. Not because it was a perfect, lovely relationship, because it clearly wasn't, but because of how real it felt. When Denna unexpectedly enters the scene, you feel exactly how Kvothe's heart swells. You feel his concern for her when she talks about her patron, and you feel his heart sink when she suddenly disappears. The banter between them is so well-crafted, and the moments they spent together had the potential to be the sweetest, or the most heartbreaking scenes in the story.
I admit, it drove me nuts the whole way through because of how "cat-and-mouse" it felt, but you start to see it from Denna's perspective too, and it says a lot both characters' personalities. Denna truly wants Kvothe, and I never saw her inconsistency as a game she plays with him; she just doesn't know how to keep someone in her life because all of her relationships end so swiftly.
I found the romance between them was always the reason I wanted to keep reading on. I looked forward to the time they spent together even though I knew it probably wasn't going to end well. What I did have a problem with was the Felurian bit in Book 2, and how Kvothe goes from being a hopeless romantic to a sex god in just a few chapters. I liked him more when he was painfully oblivious to women.
Ugggggghhh... romance. It's Merphy so I'll watch anyway.
It's not just me then
Agreed. I find romance the most boring to read about. I do like watching videos about romances done bad. I want to hear about the badly written ones and that's it.
Ginny and Harry are adorable together!
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Spoiler for a Curse so Dark and Lonely coming
Spoiler for a Curse so Dark and Lonely coming
Spoiler for a Curse so Dark and Lonely coming
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Harper and Grey should have been together, they had so much more chemistry!
And I ship Jake and Noah
YESSSS!! I HAVE YET TO READ AHSFAB BUT IM SCARED BECAUSE I HAVE HIGH HOPES FOR THEM 🥺
Nobody ever talks about Dalinar and Navani but they have such a good relationship with so much depth
Did you read the German version of Harry Potter and "The Stone of the Wise"? Why do you have that?! :)
Didn't like ANY of the pairings in Harry Potter. Hermoine should have ended up with Krum WHO NOTICED SHE WAS A GIRL IMMEDIATELY. Ginny and Neville should have gotten together. Harry and Ron weren't emotionally mature enough for anyone during that series, imho.
SPOILERS AHEAD!
This will be a bit of a rant but, another poor romance (imo) is the Red Queen series! I reaaallly didn’t like that Mare ended up with Cal, he was such a jerk! He was so hot and cold and was NEVER there for Mare but expected her to abandon ALL HER GOALS IN LIFE just so he can “have her” he treats her like an object and literally puts her in danger by becoming king! IMO Kilorn should’ve ended up with her. He was such a brave character and deserved WAAAAY more page time then he got. He was always there for Mare and was willing to fight for her even though he was a red.
Even though some people may disagree, I LOVE the relationship between Harry and ginny in the books. It feels so real and somehow mature. Ginny is a great character with an absolutely strong personality. I'm happy she ended up with harry
The WOT romances are so bad because RJ's women all think men are stupid and the men think women are stupid. So it's all power games and disrespect at the base of the relationships. Most the relationships are complicated by characters being Ta'veren and warping reality around them (thus Rand with his quasi-harem). Only one relationship in the series works well (I think) once you are stuck in those boundaries. It'll be interesting to see what you think of it when you get much further in the series and see it.
Omg nooo, Ron and Hermione MAKE ALL THE SENSE IN THE WORLD. Harry and Ginny are kinda meh. TONKS AND LUPIN ARE PERFECT TOGETHER, DONT TAKE THAT AWAY FROM ME
As someone who read books 1 2 3 5 of Harry Potter first, I don't know why people say that Harry and Ginny shouldn't be together. I had more or less completely ignored HP before then and I don't think I knew much about them, but at the end of 5, I thought Ginny was going out with Dean just to reassure Harry that not everyone was going to want to date him now that he was popular again. To me, Harry and Hermione wouldn't have made sense.
I think it was something that was bubbling in the fandom but didn't truely explode till JK expressed that her views on certain pairings were now different. Harry and Hermione were already a staple fan ship but that definitely stoked the flames even more.
@@b_a_z_e_dv.2.067 I just never saw it.
@@wandagambling6523 I agree. But the endless discourse will continue.
Harry and Ginny is the best pairing, I'm so bitter about what they did to then in the movies
Its so rushed and forced , how do you liked them
I also really like Harry and Ginny! I think they were a great match and I was super rooting for it in the sixth book.
I'm pretty sure the greatest romance of all time in fantasy books is the cersei-jaime romance. How many love stories in books can you say changed it's world more than those two.
I'm so happy. I thought I was the only one that doesn't like Ron and Hermoine together. Hermoine and Harry seems worse though. I like Hermoine with Krum.
See I liked Hermione and Harry and thought the last book where they were alone and relying on each other and trying to cheer each other up was really sweet and the fact that they are very comfortable with one another shows a nice bond that I could see growing not that they should have just been boyfriend and girlfriend from there on out but maybe that friendship could have grown more. Hermione and Krum is interesting but I never felt I knew krum well
I like Harry and Hermoine in a non romantic relationship too.
@@michaelinman7456 Honestly I couldn't see Harry with anyone during the time reading it. I am Asexual so sometimes I struggle with romantic sub-plots and I look at the emotional connections and relationships built on that more than "He likes her and she likes him" kinda thing.
Hermione would have been good on her own for sure. I do think they would have made a good couple after they grew up a little bit. Harry had a lot of insecurities and Hermione had a lot of drive and ambition that really didn't seem to fit well into being in a relationship. So both of them being in a relationship and married within a few years of leaving Hogwarts never set well with me.
Have you finished reading The Rage of Dragons
yet? I find myself *burning to know if you love it still* after you talked about it.
*spoiler for Harry Potter*
13:29 THANK-YOU. I had a feeling you'd be on that page about Hermione and Ron (I haven't watched enough of your videos it seems). They're a "convenient" couple and it bugs me. And I TOTALLY agree with Harry and Ginny too. :)
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. I love hermione and Ron together (also really like Harry and Ginny together so I’m with you there)
@@Gustavo-so7zk And I respectfully disagree with your disagreement. (Fully acknowledging both our opinions matter.)
JKR only put them together to satisfy her childhood dream of them being together. When she started HP they were going to end up together - and truly, the Hermione and Ron in the first two books were ickle-cute. But over the course of the 7 books they *changed* and *grew* as people - and rightfully so.
They were too different when everything was over and JKR acknowledged that.
I won't get into the fact that Ron was a giant arse to her most of the time, but my point is that they grew away from the characters that JKR had initially envisioned being a couple.
It was ... *wrong* by the end. And completely unrealistic given everything that had happened between them when there wasn't *fluff* crammed in for the sake of being crammed in.
This pairing is beyond *wrong* on so many levels.
Ouch
@@Hippie2089 *Que?*
Mika Oh I’m going to have to disagree again. In the first book we see Ron and Hermione are basically opposites and there’s the classic scene where hermione overhears Ron being an asshole and then of course by the end of the book they have made up. Similarly in the third book they’re basically at each other’s throats until Ron realizes he was being an ass and apologizes to her, which is insane in my opinion, because how often do you actually see Ron apologize or admit he has screwed up in the series? That’s some character development. Throughout the books we see this theme of hermione and Ron getting into arguments and realizing that they made mistakes and apologizing to each other. I think the notion that good couples shouldn’t argue is ridiculous. I think good couples should be able to make it out of arguments loving each other more than ever. I will concede that Ron and hermione’s relationship gets pretty ugly in the half blood prince with lavender, mcclagen, and all of the jealousy that went down, but I think that in the deathly hallows they matured an incredible amount, and you really see their love in that book, especially Ron’s ridiculous character development when he’s going out of his way to be kind and polite towards hermione, as he had never made an effort to be polite to really anyone. He also goes out of his way to be more respectful towards the things that she cares about. Pretty much the only time he is a dick is when he is under the influence of the horcrux which in my opinion does not count at all, and when hermione is getting tortured his devastation is pretty telling. Overall I feel that Ron and hermione are perfect towards each other especially having matured out of their petty teenage states.
Is it weird that I like Harry/Ginny, but also the Harry/Hermione pairing. Both really has interesting aspects to me
The guy from king killer ignores all the women who throw themselves at him but chases after an emotionally unavailable woman, me.
I have not read most of the books you mention and I hard disagree about Harry Potter, but I like listening to you be salty about things :D
I feel like in the Gentlemen Bastards' and the Name of the Wind, it is not so much a badly-written romance than a dysfunctional one
But can we talk about the romance in Mistborn?? Elend and Vin had one of the healthiest relationships I’ve read in fiction.
I also love the Harry & Ginny relationship, I think they work well together, and while I would have liked more build up, I don't think it's unconvincing for teenagers to not have a huge amount of build up.
Also, I always think that there actually is a lot more build-up, because we see them both mature and grow into themselves, which is part of why they fall for each other! The build up came before there were canonical feelings in my opinion. Friendship and respect can be an amazing base to a relationship and it's partly why they can have so many mature conversations.
Six of crows did an amazing job at making the romance a side plot but also involving it in the main plot. Plus the couples just pair each other so well. And two of the pairs have history one of them trust the other the other not so much. Waylan can sunshine... that’s all I need to say for that couple. But keneji is my favorite
In one book series I've read, it is a fantasy series with a lot of romance weaved into the story and it is done great. All the characters who end up in a relationship have been shown how the relationship has been created. For example, one couple doesn't get together until the end of the last book, but it is a beautiful moment between the two who have had a really close friendship for all of the books. Another pair get together during the second books out of four, and it shows them growing in their relationship and dealing with all the obstacles of their lives.
Also, they are all gay which is awesome.
I kinda feel like sometimes authors add in romance sub plots just because everyone expects them to, not because it’s an authentic and touching addition
I’ve gotten an unkindness of magicians and the lies of lockmorra and I can’t wait to read them haha
Omg I really adore Harry and Ginny! So happy to see there’s someone having the same feeling!
I personally love Katsa and Po in Graceling. I loved the way the author built it up over time and how they treated eachother. Also a fan of Valek and Yelena in Poison Study ^^
Please read 'The Expanse' series!!
You just made me decide to re-read all of Harry Potter when i'm done with The FInal Empire. Used to read Potter all the way through several times a year as i was really caught up in it all when growing up, but it's been nearly 8 years now... It is time!
For the most part I like where the romance in WOT ends up at, but Robert Jordan is bad at writing the beginning of them.
That's a really good way of putting it. I think his biggest problem with the start-ups is how little time characters often spend together then there's suddenly a declaration they're in love. The more time spent on it, the more convincing. Some people complain Lan and Nynaeve was abrupt but there's actually so many little moments in Eye of the World before Nynaeve makes her declaration. So they're a pairing I always believed in.
I get why you don't like the sudden pairings, they can sometimes feel out of place and strained, but i wouldn't agree it is unrealistic/impossible to happen. I think that it comes down to execution and development of the romance after that sudden start. Some authors that make the choice to start a romance that way tend to also not give it enough attention to develop in a way that would make sense. Kind of like I think I need to work some romance in but I can't be bothered to spend to much time on it.
Absolutely adore Harry and Ginny as a couple. Think they were written so well. Can't understand people's criticism of there not being enough foreshadowing, and that his feelings came out of nowhere in HBP. The seeds were planted in Order of the Phoenix. From Ginny finally being able to be normal around Harry thanks to her dating Michael Corner (which Harry noted), to her scolding him for secluding himself because of his connection to Voldy (showing she cared), to them having their first real conversation in the library (which Harry enjoyed), and finally (and IMO this proves his feelings once and for all) on the train home Harry asked her to sit with him, but she sat with her friends, which made Harry realise how much (up until that year) time they never spent together, and the need he has for her presence now he has finally spent more time with her. (There was also indication in GoF.)
The movies did loads of damage as well, since it's the main thing Harmoine shippers use (Because the director wanted to push Harmoine even though the book clearly shows he has no romantic feelings for her at all) and absolutely disrespecting Ron and Ginny to do so.
And as for his relationship with Ginny, it's one of the healthiest relationships in all of YA and Soft fantasy. From Harry breaking up with her to protect her from Voldy, To Harry constantly ensuring she's safe by looking at the Marauder's Map, to his feeling of dread/concern when she got caught trying to take Gryffindor's Sword, to Harry not daring to call out to her when he was on his way to sacrifice himself knowing if he did he wouldn't be able to do what was needed, to his final thought being of kissing her. Their relationship (from Chamber of Secrets all the way to Deathly Hallows) was a relationship built on pure and undying love and admiration no matter the circumstance
What relashionship
They don't even talked till gof
In ootp
It was showed that
Harry listens only to Hermione
When he distanced himself from everyone
Order people had to specially call Hermione from her vaccation to even connect with Harry
That's harmione development
Imagine Harry ginny as parents
And Harry distancing himself from everyone and Ginny calling Hermione so that she can talk with Harry
That would be embarrassing
And Harry Ginny all talks are off page
So its hard to get connected with them
I do actually think Ginny is good for Harry. Despite the fact that it was abrupt, their relationship is really healthy, and really understanding. They were friends at first, which eventually turned to love. Also, most of their development as a couple did happen after the events of the seventh movie, which might have been why it seemed abrupt to people
I love a lot of things about the Wheel of Time series, but relationships were not one of them. Merphy, I have to know, which relationship in the series did you enjoy?
I think it's perrin and faile???
@@megravitt33 Oh god, I hope that's not the one she likes. Faile is so abusive!
I feel it's probably Lan and Nynaeve.
yes I have to know too!!!! Because I honestly cannot think of a single WOT relationship that I like lol.
I was thinking Rand and Aviendha. It's the only one where the development made sense, for me at least.
I love Dalinar's love interest for what she does for him and because she is a great example of a strong female character that is in no way masculine. Oh man, the Wheel of Time.... I'm trying to get through it but the romance is so cringey and even aside from that the characters make decisions that are so dumb I wonder what happened to their brains. As much as I love the idea of that series I might have to give up on it, though I'm going to give the audiobooks a shot to see if I can get through them that way.
Hate Harry and Ginny, prefer Hermione and Ron.
One word: podcast. I'd love another medium to add to the ways I can listen to your book discussions. 🙌
I totally agree with you about Harry and Ginny. There was plenty of buildup in book 6 and even more if you count their friendship in book 5, and their personalities are perfect for each other
"I don't know, I don't have a heart?" - just then notices 'evil' Mouse hoodie
As a writer... Romance is a BIG weakness. I can see my subplot romance as bad on your list. But, maybe you can critique it better for me when its done :)
Y'know, if it's not something you like to write or you don't like how it turned out, you don't HAVE to include a romance. There's lots of books out there I think would be improved if they had no romance at all in them. I think it can get tiring to read because writers and publishers tend to assume there ALWAYS has to be romance.
12:17 Merphy: "And I'm just like, where did that come from?"
^ me, when I saw the love confession for N+L in WoT book 1. It felt mad random