sir or madam or otherwise, you have made an egregious error in referencing something that does not actually exist. please enjoy this elevator music while we shoot off into the void at laughably extreme speeds.
Fantasy parody idea: A guy who realizes that no one ever dies while giving their death monologue, so he's been monologuing for the past three years with a gapping chest wound to keep from dying.
I really love how the death of Sirius is handled in Harry Potter. Harry is so sure he can talk to him through this mirror, and then he is certain Sirius will come back as a ghost, but he doesn't and that really got me, it broke my heart
About the "How long can someone actually say their farewells whilst dying?"... Well, quite long, actually. I worked at a trauma center here in Brazil, and we see these man with 5-6 gunshot wounds to the abdomen and chest, and are still alive and talking, 12 stab wounds and to the chest and just waiting for a doctor to see them, people with their brains visibly coming out from holes in the skull and are just fine. There was this one guy who was spanked, stabbed, burned and shot and he was still alive for hours after, and one of the shots was in his brain. So it can really take a looong time for someone seemenly dying to actually die.
@@joaoassumpcao3347 or literately anywhere with a high crime rate because fuck that Brazil tickets are expensive. I'd love to go but not during a recession thanks
The whole main character not dying quickly compared to a side character dying quickly because of the same wound thing happens all the time in movies and tv as well, drives me nuts 😅
I would like to say that while sometimes death is instant or quick, there is also accounts of people who have stayed up, still fighting for several minutes with multiple lethal wounds before collapsing. (Found only one reference quickly that one being video called "People sometimes fought on after massive wounds" from channel "scholagladiatoria" but I am quite certain that is not the only video I have seen on the topic. On the other hand, this might be one of those "just because your correct doesn't mean your right" times where even when you could be historically accurate it would still feel off.
In some movies where the bad guys are blown up with bombs and things like that, the moment they realise it... They don't run away like the heroes, they accept their defeat. And because of that, even if the bad guy was I don't know a child murderer I have still respect, because they accept it. And also say sometimes „Ah F*ck“
Howard Tayler gave the example of having a character's last thought be, "Wait, but I haven't--" And the fact I remember that example years later says something.
@@rhydes_ oof yesss. And another one that really hurts is when a dying character is near someone other than the person or people they care about most, and try to ask them to pass on a message like "Tell (so and so) that -" but die before they can finish. It's heartbreaking for the character who died since they couldn't get their final thoughts out in time, and for the person they asked to pass it on since they have to deliver an incomplete message to the loved one(s), and especially for the loved one(s) who not only couldn't be there in those final moments, but will live the rest of their lives not knowing what that person's final words to them would have been. 😭
To be fair, a stab wound (even multiple) are slow agonizing deaths in most cases. Movies do blade wounds a disservice by making it seem to the general public as if they are an instant kill. Some may be depending on internal trauma or how clean or rough the wound is. If a major artery is not cut (the body has several), they may take a while to die. This is why many armies had reserves follow the main army and just finish off the wounded enemies....
Yes! Did research on this kind of stuff for my own writing, and movies make up their own rules. Smashing heads into a wall three times over and the person is still cool to fight back AND win. One stab wound? Instant death. Not how it works in real life
yeah like an artery in the throat or the artery in the shoulder can kill faster instead of a Abdomen wound (depends on the depth of it though) or wrists takes a lot of time to kill the victim.
"This is why many armies had reserves follow the main army and just finish off the wounded enemies." That's kind of them. I kind of assumed most armies would let them die slowly in agony for however long it'd take them to die from their wounds/dehydration/other factors.
@@austintheamerican3784 there are a lot of examples of people surviving dozens of wounds that are fatal in movies. I think the record is an American robber who survived 62 bullet wounds.
I hate "final words" so much. I'm a nurse in a nursing home and never have I seen someone give a heartfelt goodbye, close their eyes and die. Also on a related note if you are going to write a medical scene ask you healthcare friends if it makes sense. Nothing brings me out of the story more than an unrealistic medical scene.
I don’t have any medical friends but if I want to write a medical scene that is not based off of something in my fictional world with its own rules, I am going to ask this comment if that’s okay. Thanks and sorry in advance!!
it's interesting, the part about final goodbye. my grandma, may she rest in peace, had cancer and knew her time is limited so she had a onr on one talk with each of us. and while she did die, it was months later. so yeah, she had her final goodbye, but didn't just die right after. PS: in a scale of 1-10 how would you rate the medical accuracy in scrubs?
@@ransherman1611 I'm so glad you got to say goodbye in a special way like that. Srubs: I'm bad at ranking stuff with a number, but the stuff that is supposed to be serious is actually surprisingly accurate. The biggest difference between the show and reality is that doctor's aren't going to have that much of a hand on approach. A lot (but not all) of the things they do would be delegated to a nurse
When you were talking about characters magically having time for all kinds of stuff during a battle all I could think about was how Elizabeth and Will got married while fighting in Pirates of the Caribbean 😂😂
Same. In their defense, though, there was a lot of fighting and killing between words. There wasn't an actual pause for any of it; they just fit stuff in where they could.
I haven't seen this done in books too often, but I really hate it when a character in a series or anime or something suddenly gets all the attention in one episode, where previously they were just kind of there. You just know the writers want you to attach yourself to this character and then BAM they die at the end of the episode for shock or whatever.
To use a trading term, this is what I call a 'pump and dump' moment. The writer wants a dramatic death scene and knows they fucked up because nobody cares about this character, so the writer pours as much attention as possible onto the character at the last minute, hoping they can dupe the audience into caring right before they die.
⚠ Mockingjay spoilers ⚠ The way Katniss breaks down way after Prim dies because she is telling the cat and by doing so, making it feel real, GOT ME SO GOOD. It was perfect. I feel like you wanted to give this example so bad haha
That is the perfect scene for grief, remembering something that you couldn't grieve for fully in the moment. Then it hits you like a touch when it sparks a memory, when you have time to grieve.
If you REALLY want a death monologue, research an injury and make it realistic. One of my favorite death scenes in television made sense because a character still had the weapon in her stomach, a healer came over and explained to her fiance that nothing could be done, whenever the weapon was removed she would die (explained this pretty much just by looking at him), and she was able to have her final words with him, realized what the healer's face meant, and then pulled the weapon out of her body so her fiance and friends wouldn't have to. It slayed me, and it seems realistic.
Don’t say wannabe! If you write, your a writer! Have confidence in yourselves and get some close friends or/and family to read over your WIPs or completed stories. Getting opinions and criticism is very good when it’s not someone being plain mean.
That was me in endgame (Spoilers? does Endgame need spoilers?) I wasn't sad when Tony stark died, but I was in tears when I saw his daughter and wife, and the whole funeral I was just in tears lol, and I don't cry in movies much (sans Pixar... freaking Pixar)
I'd argue that character's reaction to death is honestly much more important and powerful than the deaths themselves. Best example I can think of is the first Lord of the Rings movie where Gandulf "dies." It's tragic, but I wouldn't say that scene in itself is all that sad. However, the scene directly after where the Hobbits are uncontrollably sobbing, Gimli's having to be held back from running back into the mine, Legolas is just kinda wandering around in a daze not sure how to comprehend mortality and Aragon's just trying to keep everyone going because they don't even have time to grieve. THAT shit is powerful.
Random Idea: What if a character doesn't realize their friend died till after the battle when they're collecting/counting the bodies? Especially if they're not used to seeing their friend in armor. They pass by the bodies of comrades, it hurts but it doesn't truly sting because the MC didn't know them well. Then they pass by one body and when they take off their helmet they realize it was a major character. Then they mourn. No long monologue, no stopping battle to mourn, just a sudden punch in the gut after a celebration.
I don’t really mind the death-monologue as long as it isn’t overused (and the surrounding action/danger has passed). I know we’re talking books and not movies, but the Boromir/Aragorn scene in fellowship of the ring is one of my favorites.
@@thanks8589 True, but I checked and the dialogue is shorter. I preferred the scene in the movie though, one of the most emotional death scenes in fiction!
I balled my eyes out the first time I read this. The deversity in deaths in Lotr is good, I liked what he did with Theoden, it wasn't grand, id stuff like that happens in battle
And most deaths are like that unless they have an artery cut and bleeding out in a minute/minutes. If I remember correctly, unless it's an instant death, most war wounds if treated on site should be seen with in an hour, and they will have a good chance of surviving. Of course this depends on the wound and its severity. If it's a severe guy wound the person will problably die with in the next few hours or day from sepsis, or organ failure.
I strongly disagree with what you said about how movies vs books slow down time. I think novels have much more ability to play with the passage of time & stretching out a single second by emphasising descriptions & characters thoughts whereas films are limited to real time and can only do slow mo in very rare and risky opitunities.
Yes! I completely agree! You can zoom in on the thoughts and feelings of a character without anytime passing. As long as you don't describe them doing stuff
Yes but I feel this particular situation just can't be done. If they have too much time to think, to analyse their feelings, to take in how the battlefield looks, all of which would slow down a scene, we're back at the problem of 'how aren't you dead yet?'.
@@intergalacticalcommiteeofp9807 Analysing, or having whole strands of thought wouldn't work. But detailed snap observations, overwhelming feelings and a realisation of some sort can be done
14:36 To add onto that being a real thing: when my grandpa died in 2016, a few days after the entire family went to eat at his favorite restaurant that we went to a lot when he was alive. There was a total of about 12 people, so in the chaos, I went to go tell my grandpa something about the koi fish they had outside- I don't remember specifics. I knew he was dead. It had been days. So I turned to my aunt and made the comment, "I was just about to ask where grandpa was" and we spent the lunch kinda quiet
I only like the resurrection trope of when the character comes back they are warped or completely different. Like the resurrected character is not able to feel emotion or seemingly a completely different character after being brought back and the main character has to feel that pain of realizing that who they brought back is not actually who they wanted.
that's really good! i believe i read a book with a plot like that, but can't recall. (i know song of ice and fire had something like that, but not with a main character, so it can't be what i'm thinking of)
I only like the resurrection trope when it's genuine. Screw dying, we're exalted servants of the Seldarine. 10 diamonds is enough to bring someone back perfectly. I hate the grimderp takes.
The whole "stopping the battle to mourn somebody" reminds me of when there's a conversation going in a moving car. I stress out so badly. WATCH THE FREAKIN' ROAD!
The reaction of a loved one being more heartbreaking than the actual death made me think of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (specifically the movie). Cedric dying - terrible and sad, but no time to mourn. Cedric's dad being in total agony on the sight of his dead son's body later - oof. Makes me cry every time.
Lowkey love manga/animes that have characters fighting even after losing like all their blood because then I just sit there and go "fam, you've been injured and bleeding for the past 20 chapters, you need to go see a doctor maybe or just drop dead now" But I also got a C in Human Anatomy so what do I know.
I love Bleach. "Damnit, both my lungs are cut in half. This is gonna take a few days to heal from". To be fair, they aren't human, but it's still pretty funny
@@taylor_green_9 remember when Gin struck down a guy by surprise because “those hero types always save up all their strength for one last big attack when you think they’re down for the count”
Apparently it can be suprisingly hard to kill someone (depends on what exactly is the injury, like the lungs you mentioned :p) so I wouldn't automatically go to "yo, that just doesn't check out!" but it is always weird if it's perfectly timed so they say their thing and then drop dead immediately
Very true on the lungs. You really only need one lung to survive. The danger of the second lung is air building up in the chest cavity(and of course all the other problems like blood in the other lung, and infection ect...) My mom had a friend who's dad was a navy diver. One of his lungs was popped while replacing a propeller on a warship in rough seas. He survived. He couldn't do a ton of exercise, but he made by
I do love a good flashback to a dead character. It's cool when an author gives us more information about a character without bringing them back to life.
Regarding battlefield mourning: As far as I know in a large battle not everyone would be fighting all the time. You have formations several ranks deep and you have reserves. If a man in a formation falls, the formation can close ranks about him and pull him away from the front. And if you have a large battle where people are not fighting in formation, then you have a stupid battle. 😅
I think the resurrection thing can be done well if when they come back they are different in some way. Not necessarily evil or a zombie or something, but some significant change that changes the dynamic of the story.
Counter to the first point, specifically "You can't slow down time in a book." One of my favorite story involves a character dying via beheading in the middle of a battle, which the main character witnesses. It takes a paragraph to describe the (fully helmeted so it's not overly disgusting) head falling through the air, emphasizing the feeling of unreality the main character was experiencing. Disbelieving I'm the moment of witnessing it. That was a moment that felt like what you described a movie doing. Because the main character felt like they experienced it in slow motion, the writer was able to make it work the way you described the movies do. So... yeah, books can do that, if they do it right.
I love killing characters before they finish their arcs! Really wish this was something I saw more often when reading because it can really have more impact if you have a character with a really clear motivation or goal and they die before it can be achieved, feels way more like real life to me where not everyone gets the long happy life where they accomplish what they set out to do
A favorite series of my with good death scenes is Percy Jackson. Riordan knows how to hit you in the feels. I cried throughout the series at the various deaths ( won't spoil, if you know you know). He showed the characters' reactions in the moment, and the lingering after effects. The characters he killed weren't side ones, they were main characters we fought alongside, we laughed with, we rooted for. Dude knows his death.
I always think long death speeches are fine. It's such a trope in art. I mean in opera characters get a lot of singing to do whilst they die. In my old age, I've come to like it when things are more artificial than stone-cold realism. I also have a soft spot for characters trying to hold in their emotions in the style of British films of the 30s, 40s, and 50s. There's something heartbreaking about someone trying not to break more than all the tears. But both these things are personal taste I accept.
There is also a sense of realism of people not dying instantly. It often takes hours, so if it's modern a gut wound isn't often fatal unless it's really bad. Heck in the 1400s king Richard V was hit in the face by an arrow that rested on the base of his skull by his brainstem. He survived, he just broke the arrow shift and continued fighting/commanding the army until the battle was over. I do like what you said that it is art, and a play. Its about the story behind it.
12:00 *This.* It’s not a book, but there’s a show I love that has a death of a character that I didn’t really care about and even kinda hated, but because they meant so much to the main character, it hit me so hard.
Well regarding realistic deaths, I often prefer a poetic/dramatic final moment over what is realistic. Spoilers for the play of Julius Caesar (even though it's based on historic events), but I think Julius Caesar's death in the play is far more moving and touching than what probably happened in real life. In real life he probably didn't say 'et tu, brute?' since he had over 20 stab wounds at the time. Is the play realistic? No not at all, but it is far more moving and iconic than what really happened. I don't think realism is necessarily better, I really think it is all about how it is executed (pun intended).
Actually, only five of Caesar’s 23 wounds were taken while he was still alive. A slash to the face, and stabs to the arm, torso (specifically the Aaorta), and finally, by Brutus, the groin. Historians report that he was silent during the entire affair until Brutus stepped forth, at which point he said “You too, my child?” As their relationship was more father-son than a friendship. Out of around sixty conspirators, he was wounded five times while alive, though only the second wound to the chest was fatal, and eighteen times when already dead. So, yes, he could have and did say something similar in reality. Additionally, if you have the entire story behind the assassination, I personally find it more interesting and moving than the play.
@@ScrollwormoftheFanWings Interesting. I had previously read that his famous last words were a fabrication and honestly didn't know that there was an original quote that was similar. However, after doing a bit of research, I see that the original quote comes from a historian (Suetonius) who was writing over 125 years after Caesar's death so those final words could also be a fabrication as well. Either way it's good to learn something new.
My experience working in a hospital is that people on their death beds don't want to die in front of their family. Even if they are really out of it, the family will be by their side for almost every second, and when they all decide to got eat, that's when the person goes.
@@pikameer8325 I have been reading stuff in the riordan verse (Percy Jackson,Heroes of Olympus, and later series) and there many characters that die that you have at least some attachment too, but that is in the later books and series. Also I do believe quite a few people die in the his dark materials series. Those are what I can think of off the top of my head sorry if this is long. P.S. I know both of those series are technically middle grade novels, but is middle grade novels have character deaths then YA should. Again sorry for how long this is.
"A death for a lost cause - like a death in a battle that was pointless or a sacrifice that meant nothing at all - are the most heart breaking." so you mean every game of thrones death after Robert's boar incident
One of my favorite deaths is Dumbledore. Not because his death was dramatic (though it was), but because the aftermath of his death felt impactful. Characters were confused and lost for most of the book without his guidance. It wasn’t used as just a beat and had lasting implications.
I’m fine with longer scenes after sword stabbing, because most knife wounds irl don’t kill fast. But I need internal consistency. The side-character gets to lie around coughing and whatnot as long as the main character gets to monologue, if that’s what the author wants.
Something I want to bring in the table: Is important to show your characters grieving at the right moments, but is also important to remember not everybody is going to grief the same. A really good example, eventhoug is a Netflix show, is The Haunting of Hill House. Grief is basically the theme of the show.
What if a character looses somebody they are so close to, they literally cannot cope, so the other, slightly less attached characters, shield them off to give them time to mourn?
There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you remain aware of how this decision impacts the characters, later. Don't just let everyone brush it off as part of the job - that was them going above and beyond for someone.
That can work really well. Another thing that works is having the main character scream out their grief and get injured because of it. Suddenly they are on the defensive, at a disadvantage because they are bleeding and have fewer friends to come to their aid. Let the main character lose an advantage they had. Maybe the enemy lines broke and the enemy is fleeing but the MC is not pursuing because their is griefe. Maybe a wounded enemy gets away because the MC rishes to their friends side (dealing with the enemy if they are still there though) As long as the loss of time has consequences you can do a lot with grief reactions. Hell, your MC could charge blindly into the enemy lines. This could route them, but if could also cause more friendly casualties. - I have definitely seen a death causing berserk reaction that was poorly executed lead to an unsatisfying end of a battle. (Mercedes Lackey). Don't treat anger as a magickal battle ender. It still needs to make sense that the battle would end.
I was actually thinking on doing that for my novel. Like, a character dies and MC just drops there, in total shock in the middle of the battle and the other characters rush to defend him because he literally stopped fighting and many soldiers are trying to kill him.
@@Beto_Serrano for a moment it would be ok, but they would need to get up eventually. They wouldnt be able to be defended forever unless it is near the very end of the battle and close to victory or surrender
When the Author stops in the middle of the battle to mourn it is an homage to the Illiad. They stop the battle of Troy and have a full on Olympic games.
This only works if the actual battle stops at the death. If the battle keeps going, then the author might think they're doing a tribute but they're actually writing an opposing army who is like "Huh....that guy looks upset. We'll kill him later."
I believe during ww2 when McArthur came to the island the us was taking the snipers stopped shooting that day to show their respects to the leader of the opposing army.
This reminds me of the Christmas truce of WWI. Not only did they have a one-day truce (that started with a sing-off of "Silent Night" in German and in English and went on to include a game of ball), but the men also didn't want to fight each other anymore when the war resumed afterwards. Getting to know an enemy up close is powerful.
@@KezanzatheGreat I heard that many of those men were done fighting and were pulled off the front. If more of the army had that, maybe the war would have ended then and there.
With the last point, while mostly done, not well, a way people can and have made it work is by not hiding the fact that the author is gonna kill them, but make the audience love that character.
Dumbledore's death is one of the best deaths I've seen in fantasy. The immediate impact of his death was tragic because it felt pointless when they realized that the thing that he and Harry had gone after wasn't even real, and then in the long term things were so clever that the impact transformed from tragic to inspirational.
And it was well written. No one was mourning at the moment of the death. It was brutal, not really expected. and THEN there is the funeral when everyone is mourning. I've cried a lot on this chapter tbh. The pacing was great.
To me, the most heartbreaking deaths are when a character who could have changed the entire story dies right before they have the opportunity to do so, such as them learning something of importance, like the villain's name, or they decided to change their ways but died before doing so. It's something you can feel the entire time throughout the rest of the story.
Not only is a monologue while someone dying unrealistic and can ruin the moment but moving that monologue to before a climatic battle can actually increase the tension of what's to come. I feel the trope of a character, for instance, professing their love before a character then dying is a trope that happens often enough that it plants the seed that the character will die but it doesn't happen enough that is a cliche. It can be effective in planting doubt of what will happen next in the reader's mind. A long winded way of saying moving a monologue in the middle of battle to before the battle can be much more effective.
This is only kind of related, but I hate when a character that's supposed to be a good person kills for the first time (in self-defence, of course) and has no reaction or feelings about it, or worse, celebrates their kill. Looking at you, Finn from Star Wars
Yes! I generally find it quite disturbing how less impact killing someone can have on a character. It’s especially strange when the „good guys“ look forward to battles etc. bEcAuSe Of ThE eXiTeMeNt.
You clearly haven’t been around a lot of military men... at least 50% of them are like this at least outwardly... as to what is going on in their head we will never know unless they open up. In my experience much of this is a front but some are that way through and through. Men of war feel they must look strong. Movies that don’t go into interior monologues are only showing you the visuals and not what is actually going on in their head. Books can express this if they are written from that point of view but if it’s not a viewpoint character then you really can’t judge the true emotional impact, motivation, or intent...
@@banderezztonylapore9493 A) A good story is supposed to show every major character's true feelings about important events. B) Most of these characters aren't even real soldiers; they're just normal people, often even kids, who are forced to fight by circumstances or destiny
@@taylor_green_9 Inverted in Attack on Titan by Armin, he puked his guts out after he killed a woman in self defence, even though he had no hesitation to off her.
Killing off characters isn’t always the thing that will devastate me the most. Seeing a character suffer often is. If you want an emotional reaction from your readers, then tearing a character’s life apart and making them at their lowest point in life will make me care A LOT more than if that character is stabbed in the fifth chapter. Sometimes life is worse than death; use that to your advantage when writing!
Yesterday I watched all dear authors again, and I don't really like to read, but I love your channel and your commentaries! Have you thought on doing a dear authors about conversations?
I agree with all of this. I would also like to add that sometimes main characters need to die. If you have a big war and lots of people die around you but the main friend group keeps surviving doesn't feel real either
I was literally in the middle of rewatching your other Dear Authors videos and clicked this one so fast!!!! Also, I love how you put the Stiles meme at the end! I love Dylan O'Brien, Teen Wolf, and Stiles so much! Ahhh!
In Shrek 3, they make fun of the idea of a character on his deathbed still talking. My first thought when you talk about emotional breakdowns by characters and searching for the bodies of loved ones is Return of the King of the movie. I love character moments where they try to hold back on their emotions but suddenly break down.
In a book which clearly aims for realism, a dying character giving a speech is not likely to work. But in the epic genre a dying character's words are a narrative device. The words at the point of death carry more weight, are more poetic. I love a good death speech!
Most loved series ever....Dear Authors❤️ ... It's the sweetest way to tell the authors what you hate about their writing and ofcourse you also tell what you like about their writing ❤️ YOU ARE A GENIUS MERPH 🦋
The only thing that can't stretch the character deaths for a whole minute and takes the breath out of you and it works really well... Guess what it is? Avada Kedavra!!
As someone who has actually lost one of their best friends not to long ago, it is really annoying when the death of someone who is important to the main character is treated as something inconsequential. You don't just get over something like that in one sentence and if not handled correctly, it can really destroy the reading experience for me
It's rare, but I think it's absolutley beautiful when a character does react by simply giving up, falling to their knees over a body and then ACTUALLY DIE. It's heartbreaking AND realistic depending on the characters
I hate it when the death occurs in a strange and difficult to understand way and the story just expects you to be sad the death happened as if it's obvious that it did. For example: I went through the entire Harry Potter series thinking that Sirius was somehow going to come back because I didn't understand how the curtain thingy worked or what it's purpose was or how it killed people. I felt like the mom from A Christmas Story when she first saw the lamp, "But what IS it?"
I don’t think any fictional deaths affected me, the way the Harry Potter deaths did. They were so well-written, devastating yet poignant. Also, a certain LoTR death was also extremely sad.
For me the Harry Potter deaths in the last book didn't really affect me anymore, because there were so many one after another and they didn't really impact the other characters. For example (Spoiler) Freds death. In the end all of the Weasleys were find and George still makes jokes, so you can't really feel that Fred misses, because they were one character anyway.
@@jakehopkins6989 yeah, the Red Wedding was definitely shocking. I think I was too shocked to cry at that moment. It made me feel angry at the Lannisters more than anything else.
@@mariamann8292 the moment of his death was horrible. Right after with his family crowded around the body was heartbreaking. Then... nothing. No one seemed to care
Such great points! From the perspective of somebody who is incredibly sensitive and empathetic, so even deaths in books and movies can cause emotional lows or depression, I have to add that death is often overused, and used callously. Books that feel the need to include a character death every few chapters or have so many per book really can turn me off, because I am not allowed to breathe and it actually becomes harder to get attached to characters because I am constantly wondering, "Okay, when is this one going to die?" It's a fine line to walk, keeping tension and stakes but also maintaining enough security to let readers feel safe forming attachments. Obviously this varies depending on the genre, and readers like me avoid harsh grimdark stories and horror for this reason, haha. But I get a little bothered by many readers calling for "More death! No plot armor! Nobody is safe! Author's are cowards if they don't kill off main characters!" Because for me, I much prefer there to be proper time to process one character death (NOT in the middle of battle, obviously) before having to go through it again. I can still enjoy and feel stakes in a well-written story even if no true main characters die, because stakes can be held by emotions, consequences, failures, regrets, trauma, injury, and so many other things BESIDES death. Thinking that stakes depend on whether characters dying or not honestly can result in lazy writing, because it might be much easier to write one character death than it is to write a character having to live with a really poor choice or dealing with debilitating injuries. I completely agree that death needs to be written sometimes, and should be written well and realistically. But as a lover of happy endings and hopeful stories, I want to encourage authors to seek to write realistically, but not feel pressured to kill of characters more than is necessary, because some of us just can't handle that and might not continue reading if it's too traumatic. :) Merph might love it, though. xD
Speaking of giving readers time to process death, I think Tolkien did an amazing job of balancing the need to mourn and the deep sorrow of loss with the urgency of the threat at hand and the need to find safety before finally coming back to the grief in his handling of the Fellowship coming out of Moria.
5:05 I disagree to a certain point. If the character is desensitized to death/gore/brutality (viz. a war vet), then it works. Edit: 5:53 PTSD does not necessarily equate to an overflow of emotions. It is entirely possible that the death, or realization of the death itself, is an intrusive thought, and, therefore, the character pushes away from it. Or, it is entirely possible the character has disassociated from the event/is disassociating from it. I will concede that there are good and bad ways to portray this, but just because the character isn't overflowing with emotion doesn't entirely mean the death is non-impactful/trivial
It's a meme with character's dying in ASOIAF, but Martin usually does it right. Characters can go a while focused on their goals, but then they'll find something that reminds them of their loss.
9:58 To be honest if seen logically reactions are always realistic no matter how much you are thinking it's not realistic because when you think that you are actually putting yourself in the place, so it's actually only you who thinks it unrealistic because there are all types of people, and everyone reacts differently, for them it's natural. But if you're gonna make a character that reacts in a_way_then you'll have to craft his whole character in symmetry to that as well.
Maybe because I’ve read a lot of 40k books but most authors tend to handle character death well. The space marines tend to acknowledge the death then deal with the problem in front of them and then once it’s over mourn depending on the chapter. Almost all the regular humans guardsmen and civilian alike have a wide range of reactions from blinding fear, to brute stoicism, to Cain and him yelling on the inside about how bad it is while tuning for his life.
I think the best way to write realistically is to replace the character you're writing about with yourself, like what you would do in a situation like that i know it can make similarities in characters if you do that with every character but that is a good way
You know, something that could easily fix the final words problem for specific types of characters (especially mentor characters), give them a journal or diary that has the secret. It can also have them just talking about the mc which can be used to reminisce and bring ever more emotion post death to the characters.
To elaborate: - One thing I always appreciate is when the writer will kill characters with no warning, no last eye-contact moments, and no heartfelt goodbyes. Life is unfair, death is no different. It won't wait on you. Sometimes characters just die and that's it. (I realize this is not a book, but The Departed does this VERY well) - I hate when the writer spends time trying to make you cry over a death that we know is only temporary. Like Superman in Bat vs Supes. Like, come on. It's Superman, he won't stay dead. It's as though they think we aren't intelligent enough to reason they will be back. I don't mind seeing genuine reactions by other characters, but don't try to make us cry. It's insulting and cheap. - Stupid incidents or freak accidents as a cause of death are, done well, appreciated. As in they should be used to illustrate the theme or something. The majority of people don't go down in flames of glory. Sometimes they trip on a hose. Other times they choke on a hot dog. As I said earlier, life is unfair. We shouldn't show it any differently. - One last thing- this sort of relates to the freak accident area, but I'll zone into something a little more specific. I would like to see the main character or even a side character accidentally kill their best friend/father figure/child figure person/etc. after building up a meaningful relationship with them. Whether they kill a side character or the side character kills the protagonist. That would be interesting! Just some thoughts
Honestly, the DCEU *could* have been a good opportunity to have a very genuine and touching Superman death if they'd actually taken their time to work their way up to that story arc. The actors aren't going to be able to play the characters forever, after all. Instead of trying to cram it into the second movie of the franchise (along with half a dozen other famous story arcs), save that for decade down the line when the actor is ready to leave the character behind and give them a legit heartfelt sendoff. But as you said, "killing" them in the second movie and acting like "Oh it's totally, seriously for realsies guys" feels more insulting than dramatic.
The problem with all that is it's unsatisfying. Writing fiction doesn't mean it necessarily has to deal with realism. That's why it's called fiction. When you're a writer, you use whatever's the best tool in your box to get your point across, and usually the point is catharsis. It's satisfying to get those moments, and it does justice to the character. Killing off characters in such an inglorious manner is just kind of sadistic and cruel.
Liked for the consistency in treatment between MCs and side characters. I mean, if you want to drag it out, wound your MC in a different place. Or give them an infection.
PTSD is an awkward thing to generalize and depends on the genre or time the story is set in. A warrior raised into fighting in a medieval or dark high-fantasy story in which violence is a daily occurrence will probably not be that much traumatized by a death around him. A retailer minding his own business is probably deeply traumatized when a robber shoots his colleague in the face. If you see two naked women bathing in the blood of a cow you will be at least disturbed and maybe you have to see a therapist, but 300 B.C. in ancient Greece it would remind you, that the season of the religious festivals is beginning. The first time you saw a terror attack in the news (maybe as a child or teenager) it deeply shocked you. A few years later, you barely listen to the news when they talk about another one. Humans desensitize so quickly and adapt to their surroundings. Trauma is defined by context.
@@colecates5554 A love triangle is an unstable relationship between 3 people. It causes an uncomfortable situation that people want to see resolved. It also causes drama, which is interesting, and that is why it is overused by bad writers who want cheap conflict. A good love triangle will create drama, force a character to make decisions and drive other characters to react to those decisions. The trick is allowing it to end and having the characters live with those decisions. I love 2 people? Well, I picked one. Now we find out if I can still be friends with the one I didnt pick. Maybe they leave and I've lost someone I rely on. Maybe because I was with the 2nd person I wasnt there to provide first aid when the 1st was stabbed. These are interesting consequences. Alternatively, it could settle into a stable 3 way relationship. Either way, A good love triangle has to end, which is why most of the ones you see suck. One of my favorite authors used a love triangle in the first book of her main series. I'm not going to say I loved the love triangle, but the author used to to move the plot and character arc forward. Patricia Briggs Mercy Thompson series. (Content advisory)
The friend's death scene can also work in books just as well. Books don't have to show linear time, and time in written print can be more elastic than what they usually show in movies.
I really hate ressurection. Just read a book where two of the important, likeable characters were apparently dead but then in the end BOTH came back to life. It freaked me out.
@@marocat4749 I’m now imagining a book where resurrection is possible, but at the cost of someone else’s life and other difficult things but the main part is the sacrifice, and the main characters decide to move on because they’re the good guys and don’t want to kill someone unnecessarily, except one person, maybe they’re struggling with their mental health or they were really close to the person who died, decides that they should die because they think no one will care but they don’t tell anyone, they just do whatever it is that is necessary to bring the person back to life and they die and no one can stop them, and maybe no one notices they’re gone until the person that originally died shows up and I would cry if that was written well and I want to use this in a story now; I can think of one that I could adapt to work with this, wow that sentence was long. *gasp*
@@ihopeicanchangethisnamelat7108 there is an anime that sort of covers that named full metal alchemist. The two main characters tried to resurect their mother and it didn't work, instead it took one of the brothers body and the other brother had to give up his arm and leg to save his brother. In the end they discover the one thing they have been hunting that could resurect their mother and get the body less siblings body back is made of hundreds or even thousands of peoples souls. It starts like a light hearted kids show and slowly gets darker as they realize what they are chasing and what people they looked up to were creating. It's a great show if you don't mind a cartoon
I can completely get your beef with resurrections, especially since I almost wrote myself into a corner by having my MC bring back not one but two characters with her powers (one of them almost a whole year after he died), but then a plot point of the sequel is that she's mourning the death of one of her kids in a surprise attack, so I had to scramble for a reason why she can't bring him back (I came up with one, but yeah, i'm expecting someone to call me out, lol).
Broke: long death scenes for characters we love with a long pause in the action. Woke: sudden deaths for characters we love giving us no opportunity to grasp what just happened or break until the end of the battle. They're there exchanging banter.... . . . Then they're gone.
There was this one show I was watching where a character was killed but I managed to keep it all together and thought I was going to make it without crying, and then the very next scene was a character just completely breaking down as he tells a friend who wasn't there what happened and then this friend, who is very tough and not touchy feely normally, just hugged him and I freaking lost it 😭
Hot take: I think resurrection CAN work if the character in question comes back as a different person, having lost something. The character they were is still dead and we can mourn who they used to be.
Or you could just have it cost another main character's life. I think a life for a life revival is one of the best remedies because the totally people who are dead is still the same.
@@omnianimator8468 I just wrote a comment and I can’t be bothered to write it out again so here it is copied and pasted: I’m now imagining a book where resurrection is possible, but at the cost of someone else’s life and other difficult things but the main part is the sacrifice, and the main characters decide to move on because they’re the good guys and don’t want to kill someone unnecessarily, except one person, maybe they’re struggling with their mental health or they were really close to the person who died, decides that they should die because they think no one will care but they don’t tell anyone, they just do whatever it is that is necessary to bring the person back to life and they die and no one can stop them, and maybe no one notices they’re gone until the person that originally died shows up and I would cry if that was written well and I want to use this in a story now; I can think of one that I could adapt to work with this, wow that sentence was long. gasp
Not a book, but one of the better examples of resurrection I can think of in film/television is probably from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." While the sixth season definitely isn't my favorite overall, I did like how they didn't gloss over what it means to bring someone back to life, and most of the titular character's development in that season revolves around her trying to cope with being dragged back into a violent and chaotic world after months of experiencing nothing but the pure and absolute peace she found in death. She's trying to hide the truth from her friends because they're so ecstatic to have her back, fighting with the guilt of *not* being happy to be back, struggling with mundane issues like being behind on house payments (due to her...you know...death) and holding down a job, etc. Basically, it treated her resurrection in a somewhat realistic way and as the genuinely big deal that it was, rather than everyone just going about their happy everyday lives. And her story arc in the season ends not with her just getting over it and being better, but realizing that she still has something worth living for, no matter how much of a struggle continuing to live might be. It's so much more relatable and engaging than the character just popping back up like "Well, that was a thing. Now back to adventuring!" like absolutely nothing has changed after they literally died and came back to life.
I think GRRM handles resurrection better than anyone I've seen. In the books, given how these resurrected people turn out (or in the case of how Jon Snow will likely turn out), it would have been a kinder fate to leave them dead. It gives a real horrific and emotionally devastating cost to the resurrection trope, which normally just erases all tension from the story.
I actually think the first one could be utilized well. It just depends on context. In fact, the book I'm writing now has this same thing happening where they mourn someone in battle. Except it's a based on the year 1872 and it's a gunfight, and the character is crouched behind a wall as he mourns. On deaths, context matters. If you want them to have final words, make the thing that happens to them slow enough for that to happen. Though sometimes a fast death is just as effective. Just write it well and it will work.
Strong agree on the Resurrection and the New Character introduced late only to die thing. I hate those. One ruins the sacrifice and makes it meaningless, the other is often way too obvious. Give me a character to love and follow, that is killed, and doesn't come back. That'll hit me in the feels hard.
I feel like most people in this video don't actually know what death and dying are actually like. Yes, it can take a long time to die from multiple stab wounds. It would be slow and painful. A punctured long doesn't stop you from talking (you have two). It hurts, yeah, you will die, yes, but you'd still be able to talk for quite a bit. And back to being stabbed, yay! Even a serious wound, like a split artery, can and will take around and more than five minutes. Even if it's from multiple sources. So yes, I can and will give my thirty-second monologue through gritted teeth. Come on guys, movies aren't reality.
I am definitely one of those readers who would rather the main characters make it out unscathed! I did really appreciate this discussion. I'll have to go check out the others in the series.
"Remember the avatar scene?" The one with the blue aliens? That's the only one that comes to mind, Also why did you throw up a green box when you were talking about fight scenes in this movie?
I guess what we can take away from the aftermath of a meaningful death in a story is that in real life any meaningful death of someone you know that you experience, WILL change you. You may not be sad for a long time, you may experience different emotions than that. You may process or not process it, but you will be changed in some minor to major way. I think when writers don't show this, it tells us two things: 1) the person who died wasn't really that meaningful and 2) our main character might just be a puppet for the author to get through plot points, rather than a character we get to know like a fellow human being.
"Remember the Avatar movie?"
Nothing good ever comes of such sentences
What AVATAR Movie. There's no Movie in Ba sing se.
There is no movie. There is no movie.
sir or madam or otherwise, you have made an egregious error in referencing something that does not actually exist.
please enjoy this elevator music while we shoot off into the void at laughably extreme speeds.
If you like avatar try NARUTO .
REMEMBER WHAT MOVIE? there is no such movie I have no Idea what ur talking about merph. No.
Fantasy parody idea: A guy who realizes that no one ever dies while giving their death monologue, so he's been monologuing for the past three years with a gapping chest wound to keep from dying.
Ha ha! 🤣
Hahahaha
But he can't say anything important or he dies mid-sentence XD
@@archiemcallister even better
I'm thinking of the death scene in Masquerade, where Pratchett has the stabbed guy end and start again a few times before he talks to Mr Death.
I really love how the death of Sirius is handled in Harry Potter. Harry is so sure he can talk to him through this mirror, and then he is certain Sirius will come back as a ghost, but he doesn't and that really got me, it broke my heart
Sirius' death is, to this day, the saddest I've read; almost a decade later, and I'm still not over it
@@zainabr2245 absolutely 😭😭
@@zainabr2245 What about the Red Wedding? Robb and Catelyn?
Harry was like...desperate to get back sirius....😭😭😭
@@jakehopkins6989 yeah that's a good one, too. I've only watched it though, haven't read it, so perhaps that's why it didn't come to mind
About the "How long can someone actually say their farewells whilst dying?"... Well, quite long, actually. I worked at a trauma center here in Brazil, and we see these man with 5-6 gunshot wounds to the abdomen and chest, and are still alive and talking, 12 stab wounds and to the chest and just waiting for a doctor to see them, people with their brains visibly coming out from holes in the skull and are just fine. There was this one guy who was spanked, stabbed, burned and shot and he was still alive for hours after, and one of the shots was in his brain. So it can really take a looong time for someone seemenly dying to actually die.
Seems like people writing books should come to brazil, huh
@@joaoassumpcao3347 or literately anywhere with a high crime rate because fuck that Brazil tickets are expensive. I'd love to go but not during a recession thanks
Spanked?
@@graysonbaker1744 Beaten*
Thanks for the comfort, I can say farewell to my dad and grandparents without regrets! ( very far into the future, of course)
The whole main character not dying quickly compared to a side character dying quickly because of the same wound thing happens all the time in movies and tv as well, drives me nuts 😅
I would make an exception to this in cases like Boromir. One hit dead and the whole scene deflates
@@alexanderwheeler3943 Yeah there definitely are times where it doesn’t happen this way. Great example!
Spoiler - Perfect example of this idea: Avenger Infinity War...
@@LightLukk Most definitely!
I would like to say that while sometimes death is instant or quick, there is also accounts of people who have stayed up, still fighting for several minutes with multiple lethal wounds before collapsing. (Found only one reference quickly that one being video called "People sometimes fought on after massive wounds" from channel
"scholagladiatoria" but I am quite certain that is not the only video I have seen on the topic. On the other hand, this might be one of those "just because your correct doesn't mean your right" times where even when you could be historically accurate it would still feel off.
Most of the time people’s last word are something like “ah f*ck” and I want more of that.
In some movies where the bad guys are blown up with bombs and things like that, the moment they realise it...
They don't run away like the heroes, they accept their defeat. And because of that, even if the bad guy was I don't know a child murderer I have still respect, because they accept it. And also say sometimes „Ah F*ck“
Howard Tayler gave the example of having a character's last thought be, "Wait, but I haven't--"
And the fact I remember that example years later says something.
@@nathanhall9345 this had me shaking. Same with "And don't forget to..." but this one's such a let down that it's not used, like, ever
@@rhydes_ oof yesss. And another one that really hurts is when a dying character is near someone other than the person or people they care about most, and try to ask them to pass on a message like "Tell (so and so) that -" but die before they can finish. It's heartbreaking for the character who died since they couldn't get their final thoughts out in time, and for the person they asked to pass it on since they have to deliver an incomplete message to the loved one(s), and especially for the loved one(s) who not only couldn't be there in those final moments, but will live the rest of their lives not knowing what that person's final words to them would have been. 😭
I’m gonna have a character’s last words be “Ah, beans.”
To be fair, a stab wound (even multiple) are slow agonizing deaths in most cases. Movies do blade wounds a disservice by making it seem to the general public as if they are an instant kill. Some may be depending on internal trauma or how clean or rough the wound is. If a major artery is not cut (the body has several), they may take a while to die. This is why many armies had reserves follow the main army and just finish off the wounded enemies....
Yes! Did research on this kind of stuff for my own writing, and movies make up their own rules. Smashing heads into a wall three times over and the person is still cool to fight back AND win. One stab wound? Instant death. Not how it works in real life
yeah like an artery in the throat or the artery in the shoulder can kill faster instead of a Abdomen wound (depends on the depth of it though) or wrists takes a lot of time to kill the victim.
"This is why many armies had reserves follow the main army and just finish off the wounded enemies." That's kind of them. I kind of assumed most armies would let them die slowly in agony for however long it'd take them to die from their wounds/dehydration/other factors.
If you miss arteries and vitals you could theoretically survive depending if you can get to medical attention-
@@austintheamerican3784 there are a lot of examples of people surviving dozens of wounds that are fatal in movies.
I think the record is an American robber who survived 62 bullet wounds.
I hate "final words" so much. I'm a nurse in a nursing home and never have I seen someone give a heartfelt goodbye, close their eyes and die.
Also on a related note if you are going to write a medical scene ask you healthcare friends if it makes sense. Nothing brings me out of the story more than an unrealistic medical scene.
I don’t have any medical friends but if I want to write a medical scene that is not based off of something in my fictional world with its own rules, I am going to ask this comment if that’s okay. Thanks and sorry in advance!!
@@ihopeicanchangethisnamelat7108 this agreeable! Lol
@@abbys6260 okay, thank you!
it's interesting, the part about final goodbye. my grandma, may she rest in peace, had cancer and knew her time is limited so she had a onr on one talk with each of us. and while she did die, it was months later. so yeah, she had her final goodbye, but didn't just die right after.
PS: in a scale of 1-10 how would you rate the medical accuracy in scrubs?
@@ransherman1611 I'm so glad you got to say goodbye in a special way like that.
Srubs: I'm bad at ranking stuff with a number, but the stuff that is supposed to be serious is actually surprisingly accurate. The biggest difference between the show and reality is that doctor's aren't going to have that much of a hand on approach. A lot (but not all) of the things they do would be delegated to a nurse
When you were talking about characters magically having time for all kinds of stuff during a battle all I could think about was how Elizabeth and Will got married while fighting in Pirates of the Caribbean 😂😂
Same. In their defense, though, there was a lot of fighting and killing between words. There wasn't an actual pause for any of it; they just fit stuff in where they could.
@@caileyrookids It was a great scene
@@rayamaritza4172 Agreed.
I haven't seen this done in books too often, but I really hate it when a character in a series or anime or something suddenly gets all the attention in one episode, where previously they were just kind of there. You just know the writers want you to attach yourself to this character and then BAM they die at the end of the episode for shock or whatever.
I won't say where, but there's an example in the Netflix Marvel series where I thought this was happening, but the writers were very aware of it.
This is why Expose is the worst episode of LOST
To use a trading term, this is what I call a 'pump and dump' moment. The writer wants a dramatic death scene and knows they fucked up because nobody cares about this character, so the writer pours as much attention as possible onto the character at the last minute, hoping they can dupe the audience into caring right before they die.
How many times did they do that in "The Walking Dead?"
@@z-beeblebrox exactly! I like the term pump of dump :D
⚠ Mockingjay spoilers ⚠ The way Katniss breaks down way after Prim dies because she is telling the cat and by doing so, making it feel real, GOT ME SO GOOD. It was perfect. I feel like you wanted to give this example so bad haha
That is the perfect scene for grief, remembering something that you couldn't grieve for fully in the moment. Then it hits you like a touch when it sparks a memory, when you have time to grieve.
If you REALLY want a death monologue, research an injury and make it realistic. One of my favorite death scenes in television made sense because a character still had the weapon in her stomach, a healer came over and explained to her fiance that nothing could be done, whenever the weapon was removed she would die (explained this pretty much just by looking at him), and she was able to have her final words with him, realized what the healer's face meant, and then pulled the weapon out of her body so her fiance and friends wouldn't have to. It slayed me, and it seems realistic.
Sauce?
@@ginge641 I don't understand what you're asking, but if that's the name of the TV show... no
@@lindsaymorrison7519 Sauce = source. I was asking what show this is from.
@@ginge641 internet slang going wrong
Maybe I’m wrong but that kinda sounds like the end of Robin Hood season 2 by BBC. Again, I could be wrong.
Me, a wannabe author
Takes out pen and paper* writes everything down*
This is good
Me too!!
Good luck on your writing endeavours, fellow dreamer!
SAME I have a writing youtube playlist and it is like 50% Dear Authors
@@dolphone6748 Omg yes can you send it to me writing inspiration is always welcome!!
Don’t say wannabe! If you write, your a writer! Have confidence in yourselves and get some close friends or/and family to read over your WIPs or completed stories. Getting opinions and criticism is very good when it’s not someone being plain mean.
I whish I could do that. I always think about my stories in the weirdest ways but all these doesn't make any sence ;-;
I recently cried on two funeral scenes. The death didn't get me, but the mourning during the funerals - so emotional!
That was me in endgame (Spoilers? does Endgame need spoilers?) I wasn't sad when Tony stark died, but I was in tears when I saw his daughter and wife, and the whole funeral I was just in tears lol, and I don't cry in movies much (sans Pixar... freaking Pixar)
Yes!!! In (Spoiler) The Magicians it is handled so well in several Scenes.
I'd argue that character's reaction to death is honestly much more important and powerful than the deaths themselves. Best example I can think of is the first Lord of the Rings movie where Gandulf "dies." It's tragic, but I wouldn't say that scene in itself is all that sad. However, the scene directly after where the Hobbits are uncontrollably sobbing, Gimli's having to be held back from running back into the mine, Legolas is just kinda wandering around in a daze not sure how to comprehend mortality and Aragon's just trying to keep everyone going because they don't even have time to grieve.
THAT shit is powerful.
Random Idea: What if a character doesn't realize their friend died till after the battle when they're collecting/counting the bodies? Especially if they're not used to seeing their friend in armor. They pass by the bodies of comrades, it hurts but it doesn't truly sting because the MC didn't know them well. Then they pass by one body and when they take off their helmet they realize it was a major character. Then they mourn. No long monologue, no stopping battle to mourn, just a sudden punch in the gut after a celebration.
Three words: Attack on Titan
Mikhail by nash lateney. She did a beautiful job writing the after war scene
@@ribhuhooja3137 His death was so sad and unexpected, especially when you learn the truth.
@@melancholygirl7793 No one even half saw it coming! (Sorry). But it's sad how it was so pointless in the end
@@ribhuhooja3137 Yeah, butbat least he got justice and didn't just die without anyone knowing the truth
I don’t really mind the death-monologue as long as it isn’t overused (and the surrounding action/danger has passed). I know we’re talking books and not movies, but the Boromir/Aragorn scene in fellowship of the ring is one of my favorites.
From what I remember it also happens in the book
@@thanks8589 True, but I checked and the dialogue is shorter. I preferred the scene in the movie though, one of the most emotional death scenes in fiction!
@@Shonras Ah ok. And I agree. It's just 😚👌 (chef's *forehead* kiss)
I balled my eyes out the first time I read this. The deversity in deaths in Lotr is good, I liked what he did with Theoden, it wasn't grand, id stuff like that happens in battle
And most deaths are like that unless they have an artery cut and bleeding out in a minute/minutes. If I remember correctly, unless it's an instant death, most war wounds if treated on site should be seen with in an hour, and they will have a good chance of surviving. Of course this depends on the wound and its severity. If it's a severe guy wound the person will problably die with in the next few hours or day from sepsis, or organ failure.
I strongly disagree with what you said about how movies vs books slow down time. I think novels have much more ability to play with the passage of time & stretching out a single second by emphasising descriptions & characters thoughts whereas films are limited to real time and can only do slow mo in very rare and risky opitunities.
Yes! I completely agree! You can zoom in on the thoughts and feelings of a character without anytime passing. As long as you don't describe them doing stuff
Yes but I feel this particular situation just can't be done. If they have too much time to think, to analyse their feelings, to take in how the battlefield looks, all of which would slow down a scene, we're back at the problem of 'how aren't you dead yet?'.
@@intergalacticalcommiteeofp9807 Analysing, or having whole strands of thought wouldn't work. But detailed snap observations, overwhelming feelings and a realisation of some sort can be done
Oh yeah. There are a lot of ways to dilate time in prose. Not a whole lot of 'em in film.
14:36 To add onto that being a real thing: when my grandpa died in 2016, a few days after the entire family went to eat at his favorite restaurant that we went to a lot when he was alive. There was a total of about 12 people, so in the chaos, I went to go tell my grandpa something about the koi fish they had outside- I don't remember specifics. I knew he was dead. It had been days. So I turned to my aunt and made the comment, "I was just about to ask where grandpa was" and we spent the lunch kinda quiet
That was kinda sad but mostly bittersweet. Hope you’re doing better now
That would be such a Monty Python scenario
I only like the resurrection trope of when the character comes back they are warped or completely different. Like the resurrected character is not able to feel emotion or seemingly a completely different character after being brought back and the main character has to feel that pain of realizing that who they brought back is not actually who they wanted.
that's really good! i believe i read a book with a plot like that, but can't recall.
(i know song of ice and fire had something like that, but not with a main character, so it can't be what i'm thinking of)
Pet Semetary?
Buffy
The Magisterium series does that. I’m not going to spoil the details here, but I really like how it's done.
I only like the resurrection trope when it's genuine. Screw dying, we're exalted servants of the Seldarine. 10 diamonds is enough to bring someone back perfectly. I hate the grimderp takes.
The whole "stopping the battle to mourn somebody" reminds me of when there's a conversation going in a moving car. I stress out so badly. WATCH THE FREAKIN' ROAD!
The reaction of a loved one being more heartbreaking than the actual death made me think of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (specifically the movie).
Cedric dying - terrible and sad, but no time to mourn. Cedric's dad being in total agony on the sight of his dead son's body later - oof. Makes me cry every time.
Here,here.
Lowkey love manga/animes that have characters fighting even after losing like all their blood because then I just sit there and go "fam, you've been injured and bleeding for the past 20 chapters, you need to go see a doctor maybe or just drop dead now"
But I also got a C in Human Anatomy so what do I know.
Don't forget the gallons of blood from every perveted nosebleed 😁
Seven deadly sins, is all I say...
I love Bleach. "Damnit, both my lungs are cut in half. This is gonna take a few days to heal from". To be fair, they aren't human, but it's still pretty funny
@@taylor_green_9 Dying in death when it comes to Bleach lol
@@taylor_green_9 remember when Gin struck down a guy by surprise because “those hero types always save up all their strength for one last big attack when you think they’re down for the count”
Ways to handle character deaths well?
...
"I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I -"
aaaaaaaa :'(
"I don't care *what* you believe, _just believe"_
Ohhhh, so sad. Well, at least we got the dramatic requisite casualty over with...
Firefly fan! Perfect example!
I'm still in denial of that scene. It hasn't happened. Nope. Going back to watch Firefly, where everyone is fine (weird, but fine)
Too soon. It will always be too soon with this one.
Apparently it can be suprisingly hard to kill someone (depends on what exactly is the injury, like the lungs you mentioned :p) so I wouldn't automatically go to "yo, that just doesn't check out!" but it is always weird if it's perfectly timed so they say their thing and then drop dead immediately
Very true on the lungs. You really only need one lung to survive. The danger of the second lung is air building up in the chest cavity(and of course all the other problems like blood in the other lung, and infection ect...)
My mom had a friend who's dad was a navy diver. One of his lungs was popped while replacing a propeller on a warship in rough seas. He survived. He couldn't do a ton of exercise, but he made by
I do love a good flashback to a dead character. It's cool when an author gives us more information about a character without bringing them back to life.
Regarding battlefield mourning: As far as I know in a large battle not everyone would be fighting all the time. You have formations several ranks deep and you have reserves. If a man in a formation falls, the formation can close ranks about him and pull him away from the front.
And if you have a large battle where people are not fighting in formation, then you have a stupid battle. 😅
I think the resurrection thing can be done well if when they come back they are different in some way. Not necessarily evil or a zombie or something, but some significant change that changes the dynamic of the story.
Counter to the first point, specifically "You can't slow down time in a book."
One of my favorite story involves a character dying via beheading in the middle of a battle, which the main character witnesses. It takes a paragraph to describe the (fully helmeted so it's not overly disgusting) head falling through the air, emphasizing the feeling of unreality the main character was experiencing. Disbelieving I'm the moment of witnessing it.
That was a moment that felt like what you described a movie doing. Because the main character felt like they experienced it in slow motion, the writer was able to make it work the way you described the movies do. So... yeah, books can do that, if they do it right.
I love killing characters before they finish their arcs! Really wish this was something I saw more often when reading because it can really have more impact if you have a character with a really clear motivation or goal and they die before it can be achieved, feels way more like real life to me where not everyone gets the long happy life where they accomplish what they set out to do
A favorite series of my with good death scenes is Percy Jackson. Riordan knows how to hit you in the feels. I cried throughout the series at the various deaths ( won't spoil, if you know you know). He showed the characters' reactions in the moment, and the lingering after effects. The characters he killed weren't side ones, they were main characters we fought alongside, we laughed with, we rooted for. Dude knows his death.
I always think long death speeches are fine. It's such a trope in art. I mean in opera characters get a lot of singing to do whilst they die. In my old age, I've come to like it when things are more artificial than stone-cold realism. I also have a soft spot for characters trying to hold in their emotions in the style of British films of the 30s, 40s, and 50s. There's something heartbreaking about someone trying not to break more than all the tears. But both these things are personal taste I accept.
There is also a sense of realism of people not dying instantly. It often takes hours, so if it's modern a gut wound isn't often fatal unless it's really bad.
Heck in the 1400s king Richard V was hit in the face by an arrow that rested on the base of his skull by his brainstem. He survived, he just broke the arrow shift and continued fighting/commanding the army until the battle was over.
I do like what you said that it is art, and a play. Its about the story behind it.
Can we talk about how iconic that sweater is
12:00 *This.* It’s not a book, but there’s a show I love that has a death of a character that I didn’t really care about and even kinda hated, but because they meant so much to the main character, it hit me so hard.
Well regarding realistic deaths, I often prefer a poetic/dramatic final moment over what is realistic. Spoilers for the play of Julius Caesar (even though it's based on historic events), but I think Julius Caesar's death in the play is far more moving and touching than what probably happened in real life. In real life he probably didn't say 'et tu, brute?' since he had over 20 stab wounds at the time. Is the play realistic? No not at all, but it is far more moving and iconic than what really happened. I don't think realism is necessarily better, I really think it is all about how it is executed (pun intended).
Actually, only five of Caesar’s 23 wounds were taken while he was still alive. A slash to the face, and stabs to the arm, torso (specifically the Aaorta), and finally, by Brutus, the groin. Historians report that he was silent during the entire affair until Brutus stepped forth, at which point he said “You too, my child?” As their relationship was more father-son than a friendship. Out of around sixty conspirators, he was wounded five times while alive, though only the second wound to the chest was fatal, and eighteen times when already dead. So, yes, he could have and did say something similar in reality. Additionally, if you have the entire story behind the assassination, I personally find it more interesting and moving than the play.
@@ScrollwormoftheFanWings Interesting. I had previously read that his famous last words were a fabrication and honestly didn't know that there was an original quote that was similar. However, after doing a bit of research, I see that the original quote comes from a historian (Suetonius) who was writing over 125 years after Caesar's death so those final words could also be a fabrication as well. Either way it's good to learn something new.
I think there is a time and place for each. Each type of death sends a different type of message.
My experience working in a hospital is that people on their death beds don't want to die in front of their family. Even if they are really out of it, the family will be by their side for almost every second, and when they all decide to got eat, that's when the person goes.
Me, who primarily reads YA: You guys are getting character deaths?
I manly read YA and my books have quite a bit of character deaths.
@@emc2119 Any good recs?
@@pikameer8325 I have been reading stuff in the riordan verse (Percy Jackson,Heroes of Olympus, and later series) and there many characters that die that you have at least some attachment too, but that is in the later books and series. Also I do believe quite a few people die in the his dark materials series. Those are what I can think of off the top of my head sorry if this is long.
P.S. I know both of those series are technically middle grade novels, but is middle grade novels have character deaths then YA should. Again sorry for how long this is.
That should not count. Allegiant should not have been.
*cough, cough* Harry Potter, though.
Oooh this sounds like a good topic. I am bummed I missed the community tab post.
"A death for a lost cause - like a death in a battle that was pointless or a sacrifice that meant nothing at all - are the most heart breaking."
so you mean every game of thrones death after Robert's boar incident
One of my favorite deaths is Dumbledore. Not because his death was dramatic (though it was), but because the aftermath of his death felt impactful.
Characters were confused and lost for most of the book without his guidance. It wasn’t used as just a beat and had lasting implications.
I’m fine with longer scenes after sword stabbing, because most knife wounds irl don’t kill fast. But I need internal consistency. The side-character gets to lie around coughing and whatnot as long as the main character gets to monologue, if that’s what the author wants.
Something I want to bring in the table:
Is important to show your characters grieving at the right moments, but is also important to remember not everybody is going to grief the same. A really good example, eventhoug is a Netflix show, is The Haunting of Hill House. Grief is basically the theme of the show.
What if a character looses somebody they are so close to, they literally cannot cope, so the other, slightly less attached characters, shield them off to give them time to mourn?
@Nina Brandon Sanderson does exactly this with Kaladin in palace. He is aware of his side pushing past him to take that hall.
There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you remain aware of how this decision impacts the characters, later. Don't just let everyone brush it off as part of the job - that was them going above and beyond for someone.
That can work really well. Another thing that works is having the main character scream out their grief and get injured because of it. Suddenly they are on the defensive, at a disadvantage because they are bleeding and have fewer friends to come to their aid.
Let the main character lose an advantage they had. Maybe the enemy lines broke and the enemy is fleeing but the MC is not pursuing because their is griefe. Maybe a wounded enemy gets away because the MC rishes to their friends side (dealing with the enemy if they are still there though)
As long as the loss of time has consequences you can do a lot with grief reactions.
Hell, your MC could charge blindly into the enemy lines. This could route them, but if could also cause more friendly casualties.
- I have definitely seen a death causing berserk reaction that was poorly executed lead to an unsatisfying end of a battle. (Mercedes Lackey). Don't treat anger as a magickal battle ender. It still needs to make sense that the battle would end.
I was actually thinking on doing that for my novel.
Like, a character dies and MC just drops there, in total shock in the middle of the battle and the other characters rush to defend him because he literally stopped fighting and many soldiers are trying to kill him.
@@Beto_Serrano for a moment it would be ok, but they would need to get up eventually. They wouldnt be able to be defended forever unless it is near the very end of the battle and close to victory or surrender
Your dear author series should be extremely helpful for authors so they will have an idea of what people like to read and what is more realistic.
When the Author stops in the middle of the battle to mourn it is an homage to the Illiad. They stop the battle of Troy and have a full on Olympic games.
This only works if the actual battle stops at the death. If the battle keeps going, then the author might think they're doing a tribute but they're actually writing an opposing army who is like "Huh....that guy looks upset. We'll kill him later."
I wish more books did this. Admittedly the Trojan war functioned more like a civil war rather than 2 different cultures.
I believe during ww2 when McArthur came to the island the us was taking the snipers stopped shooting that day to show their respects to the leader of the opposing army.
This reminds me of the Christmas truce of WWI. Not only did they have a one-day truce (that started with a sing-off of "Silent Night" in German and in English and went on to include a game of ball), but the men also didn't want to fight each other anymore when the war resumed afterwards.
Getting to know an enemy up close is powerful.
@@KezanzatheGreat I heard that many of those men were done fighting and were pulled off the front. If more of the army had that, maybe the war would have ended then and there.
With the last point, while mostly done, not well, a way people can and have made it work is by not hiding the fact that the author is gonna kill them, but make the audience love that character.
Character dies. Everyone mourns.
DIO: One second has passed.
Dumbledore's death is one of the best deaths I've seen in fantasy. The immediate impact of his death was tragic because it felt pointless when they realized that the thing that he and Harry had gone after wasn't even real, and then in the long term things were so clever that the impact transformed from tragic to inspirational.
And it was well written. No one was mourning at the moment of the death. It was brutal, not really expected. and THEN there is the funeral when everyone is mourning. I've cried a lot on this chapter tbh. The pacing was great.
Wen I was completing the half blood prince, the book felt incomplete....coz for the five books it all ended with Dumbledore explaining everything...
To me, the most heartbreaking deaths are when a character who could have changed the entire story dies right before they have the opportunity to do so, such as them learning something of importance, like the villain's name, or they decided to change their ways but died before doing so. It's something you can feel the entire time throughout the rest of the story.
Not only is a monologue while someone dying unrealistic and can ruin the moment but moving that monologue to before a climatic battle can actually increase the tension of what's to come. I feel the trope of a character, for instance, professing their love before a character then dying is a trope that happens often enough that it plants the seed that the character will die but it doesn't happen enough that is a cliche. It can be effective in planting doubt of what will happen next in the reader's mind.
A long winded way of saying moving a monologue in the middle of battle to before the battle can be much more effective.
This is only kind of related, but I hate when a character that's supposed to be a good person kills for the first time (in self-defence, of course) and has no reaction or feelings about it, or worse, celebrates their kill. Looking at you, Finn from Star Wars
Yes! I generally find it quite disturbing how less impact killing someone can have on a character. It’s especially strange when the „good guys“ look forward to battles etc. bEcAuSe Of ThE eXiTeMeNt.
You clearly haven’t been around a lot of military men... at least 50% of them are like this at least outwardly... as to what is going on in their head we will never know unless they open up. In my experience much of this is a front but some are that way through and through. Men of war feel they must look strong. Movies that don’t go into interior monologues are only showing you the visuals and not what is actually going on in their head. Books can express this if they are written from that point of view but if it’s not a viewpoint character then you really can’t judge the true emotional impact, motivation, or intent...
@@banderezztonylapore9493 A) A good story is supposed to show every major character's true feelings about important events. B) Most of these characters aren't even real soldiers; they're just normal people, often even kids, who are forced to fight by circumstances or destiny
@@taylor_green_9 really? I wasn’t aware that there was a rule book for good stories.
@@taylor_green_9 Inverted in Attack on Titan by Armin, he puked his guts out after he killed a woman in self defence, even though he had no hesitation to off her.
Killing off characters isn’t always the thing that will devastate me the most. Seeing a character suffer often is. If you want an emotional reaction from your readers, then tearing a character’s life apart and making them at their lowest point in life will make me care A LOT more than if that character is stabbed in the fifth chapter. Sometimes life is worse than death; use that to your advantage when writing!
Yesterday I watched all dear authors again, and I don't really like to read, but I love your channel and your commentaries!
Have you thought on doing a dear authors about conversations?
I agree with all of this.
I would also like to add that sometimes main characters need to die.
If you have a big war and lots of people die around you but the main friend group keeps surviving doesn't feel real either
I was literally in the middle of rewatching your other Dear Authors videos and clicked this one so fast!!!!
Also, I love how you put the Stiles meme at the end! I love Dylan O'Brien, Teen Wolf, and Stiles so much! Ahhh!
Stiles is best boy
@@janhavi1977 yes!
Stiles carried that show
I feel like you should have an occasional episode full of spoilers because I want the discussion with examples to dissect
In Shrek 3, they make fun of the idea of a character on his deathbed still talking. My first thought when you talk about emotional breakdowns by characters and searching for the bodies of loved ones is Return of the King of the movie. I love character moments where they try to hold back on their emotions but suddenly break down.
In a book which clearly aims for realism, a dying character giving a speech is not likely to work. But in the epic genre a dying character's words are a narrative device. The words at the point of death carry more weight, are more poetic. I love a good death speech!
Most loved series ever....Dear Authors❤️ ... It's the sweetest way to tell the authors what you hate about their writing and ofcourse you also tell what you like about their writing ❤️ YOU ARE A GENIUS MERPH 🦋
The only thing that can't stretch the character deaths for a whole minute and takes the breath out of you and it works really well...
Guess what it is?
Avada Kedavra!!
EXPELLIARMUS!
"Remember the Avatar movie?"
...Oh gods! The memories are resurfacing!!!
*Pulls out whisky*
But not for long.
As someone who has actually lost one of their best friends not to long ago, it is really annoying when the death of someone who is important to the main character is treated as something inconsequential. You don't just get over something like that in one sentence and if not handled correctly, it can really destroy the reading experience for me
“Stabby, Stabby” is my favorite title of this series by far.
It's rare, but I think it's absolutley beautiful when a character does react by simply giving up, falling to their knees over a body and then ACTUALLY DIE. It's heartbreaking AND realistic depending on the characters
Murphy: Sometimes I don’t care about the character, but I feel bad seeing the characters I like broken up over it.
*cough cough* One Piece
I'm sick of hearing about One piece! Lol 😆
A certain sibling's death had me broken for DAYS if not WEEKS. I couldn't even watch openings during that time beacuse of the imagery...
I hate it when the death occurs in a strange and difficult to understand way and the story just expects you to be sad the death happened as if it's obvious that it did. For example:
I went through the entire Harry Potter series thinking that Sirius was somehow going to come back because I didn't understand how the curtain thingy worked or what it's purpose was or how it killed people. I felt like the mom from A Christmas Story when she first saw the lamp, "But what IS it?"
I don’t think any fictional deaths affected me, the way the Harry Potter deaths did. They were so well-written, devastating yet poignant. Also, a certain LoTR death was also extremely sad.
What about the Red Wedding?
For me the Harry Potter deaths in the last book didn't really affect me anymore, because there were so many one after another and they didn't really impact the other characters. For example (Spoiler) Freds death. In the end all of the Weasleys were find and George still makes jokes, so you can't really feel that Fred misses, because they were one character anyway.
@@jakehopkins6989 yeah, the Red Wedding was definitely shocking. I think I was too shocked to cry at that moment. It made me feel angry at the Lannisters more than anything else.
@@mariamann8292 the moment of his death was horrible. Right after with his family crowded around the body was heartbreaking. Then... nothing. No one seemed to care
Such great points!
From the perspective of somebody who is incredibly sensitive and empathetic, so even deaths in books and movies can cause emotional lows or depression, I have to add that death is often overused, and used callously. Books that feel the need to include a character death every few chapters or have so many per book really can turn me off, because I am not allowed to breathe and it actually becomes harder to get attached to characters because I am constantly wondering, "Okay, when is this one going to die?" It's a fine line to walk, keeping tension and stakes but also maintaining enough security to let readers feel safe forming attachments.
Obviously this varies depending on the genre, and readers like me avoid harsh grimdark stories and horror for this reason, haha. But I get a little bothered by many readers calling for "More death! No plot armor! Nobody is safe! Author's are cowards if they don't kill off main characters!" Because for me, I much prefer there to be proper time to process one character death (NOT in the middle of battle, obviously) before having to go through it again. I can still enjoy and feel stakes in a well-written story even if no true main characters die, because stakes can be held by emotions, consequences, failures, regrets, trauma, injury, and so many other things BESIDES death. Thinking that stakes depend on whether characters dying or not honestly can result in lazy writing, because it might be much easier to write one character death than it is to write a character having to live with a really poor choice or dealing with debilitating injuries.
I completely agree that death needs to be written sometimes, and should be written well and realistically. But as a lover of happy endings and hopeful stories, I want to encourage authors to seek to write realistically, but not feel pressured to kill of characters more than is necessary, because some of us just can't handle that and might not continue reading if it's too traumatic. :) Merph might love it, though. xD
exactly. i suffer from quite severe anxiety and needless sadness is not healthy for me when it gets bad.
Merphy: Talks about character deaths with Jurassic Park in the background.
Makes sense.
Speaking of giving readers time to process death, I think Tolkien did an amazing job of balancing the need to mourn and the deep sorrow of loss with the urgency of the threat at hand and the need to find safety before finally coming back to the grief in his handling of the Fellowship coming out of Moria.
5:05 I disagree to a certain point. If the character is desensitized to death/gore/brutality (viz. a war vet), then it works.
Edit: 5:53 PTSD does not necessarily equate to an overflow of emotions. It is entirely possible that the death, or realization of the death itself, is an intrusive thought, and, therefore, the character pushes away from it. Or, it is entirely possible the character has disassociated from the event/is disassociating from it. I will concede that there are good and bad ways to portray this, but just because the character isn't overflowing with emotion doesn't entirely mean the death is non-impactful/trivial
It's a meme with character's dying in ASOIAF, but Martin usually does it right. Characters can go a while focused on their goals, but then they'll find something that reminds them of their loss.
9:58
To be honest if seen logically reactions are always realistic no matter how much you are thinking it's not realistic because when you think that you are actually putting yourself in the place, so it's actually only you who thinks it unrealistic because there are all types of people, and everyone reacts differently, for them it's natural. But if you're gonna make a character that reacts in a_way_then you'll have to craft his whole character in symmetry to that as well.
In Heartless when Jest died, ( quite gruesomely too!) I bawled my eyes out on the inside, how could they take away such a sweet character? TT
Most aggressive title Merph's ever made 😂
Maybe because I’ve read a lot of 40k books but most authors tend to handle character death well. The space marines tend to acknowledge the death then deal with the problem in front of them and then once it’s over mourn depending on the chapter. Almost all the regular humans guardsmen and civilian alike have a wide range of reactions from blinding fear, to brute stoicism, to Cain and him yelling on the inside about how bad it is while tuning for his life.
I think the best way to write realistically is to replace the character you're writing about with yourself, like what you would do in a situation like that i know it can make similarities in characters if you do that with every character but that is a good way
You know, something that could easily fix the final words problem for specific types of characters (especially mentor characters), give them a journal or diary that has the secret. It can also have them just talking about the mc which can be used to reminisce and bring ever more emotion post death to the characters.
To elaborate:
- One thing I always appreciate is when the writer will kill characters with no warning, no last eye-contact moments, and no heartfelt goodbyes. Life is unfair, death is no different. It won't wait on you. Sometimes characters just die and that's it. (I realize this is not a book, but The Departed does this VERY well)
- I hate when the writer spends time trying to make you cry over a death that we know is only temporary. Like Superman in Bat vs Supes. Like, come on. It's Superman, he won't stay dead. It's as though they think we aren't intelligent enough to reason they will be back. I don't mind seeing genuine reactions by other characters, but don't try to make us cry. It's insulting and cheap.
- Stupid incidents or freak accidents as a cause of death are, done well, appreciated. As in they should be used to illustrate the theme or something. The majority of people don't go down in flames of glory. Sometimes they trip on a hose. Other times they choke on a hot dog. As I said earlier, life is unfair. We shouldn't show it any differently.
- One last thing- this sort of relates to the freak accident area, but I'll zone into something a little more specific. I would like to see the main character or even a side character accidentally kill their best friend/father figure/child figure person/etc. after building up a meaningful relationship with them. Whether they kill a side character or the side character kills the protagonist. That would be interesting!
Just some thoughts
You should watch attack on titan, every death has meaning, and the writing is so dark and good ~☹❤
@@saram9434 Thanks! I'll look into that!
How to Train Your Dragon 2 does this surprisingly well, especially related to that last point
Honestly, the DCEU *could* have been a good opportunity to have a very genuine and touching Superman death if they'd actually taken their time to work their way up to that story arc. The actors aren't going to be able to play the characters forever, after all. Instead of trying to cram it into the second movie of the franchise (along with half a dozen other famous story arcs), save that for decade down the line when the actor is ready to leave the character behind and give them a legit heartfelt sendoff. But as you said, "killing" them in the second movie and acting like "Oh it's totally, seriously for realsies guys" feels more insulting than dramatic.
The problem with all that is it's unsatisfying. Writing fiction doesn't mean it necessarily has to deal with realism. That's why it's called fiction. When you're a writer, you use whatever's the best tool in your box to get your point across, and usually the point is catharsis. It's satisfying to get those moments, and it does justice to the character. Killing off characters in such an inglorious manner is just kind of sadistic and cruel.
Liked for the consistency in treatment between MCs and side characters. I mean, if you want to drag it out, wound your MC in a different place. Or give them an infection.
Ressurection trope doing well would be an excelent "dear authors" too
PTSD is an awkward thing to generalize and depends on the genre or time the story is set in. A warrior raised into fighting in a medieval or dark high-fantasy story in which violence is a daily occurrence will probably not be that much traumatized by a death around him. A retailer minding his own business is probably deeply traumatized when a robber shoots his colleague in the face.
If you see two naked women bathing in the blood of a cow you will be at least disturbed and maybe you have to see a therapist, but 300 B.C. in ancient Greece it would remind you, that the season of the religious festivals is beginning.
The first time you saw a terror attack in the news (maybe as a child or teenager) it deeply shocked you. A few years later, you barely listen to the news when they talk about another one. Humans desensitize so quickly and adapt to their surroundings.
Trauma is defined by context.
My worst trope is memory loss.. then love triangle.. but resurrection is close.
I don't like memory loss and insta love that much, and I dont know how to feel about the resurrection trope, but I do like love triangles.
@@smarthydra061 what do you love about the triangles, curious. Do you have examples of when there done the best?
@@colecates5554
A love triangle is an unstable relationship between 3 people.
It causes an uncomfortable situation that people want to see resolved. It also causes drama, which is interesting, and that is why it is overused by bad writers who want cheap conflict.
A good love triangle will create drama, force a character to make decisions and drive other characters to react to those decisions.
The trick is allowing it to end and having the characters live with those decisions.
I love 2 people? Well, I picked one. Now we find out if I can still be friends with the one I didnt pick. Maybe they leave and I've lost someone I rely on. Maybe because I was with the 2nd person I wasnt there to provide first aid when the 1st was stabbed. These are interesting consequences.
Alternatively, it could settle into a stable 3 way relationship.
Either way, A good love triangle has to end, which is why most of the ones you see suck.
One of my favorite authors used a love triangle in the first book of her main series. I'm not going to say I loved the love triangle, but the author used to to move the plot and character arc forward.
Patricia Briggs Mercy Thompson series. (Content advisory)
Resurrection can work but only if there is still some comeback from it or a you give a reason why this character and not others can come back.
The friend's death scene can also work in books just as well. Books don't have to show linear time, and time in written print can be more elastic than what they usually show in movies.
I really hate ressurection. Just read a book where two of the important, likeable characters were apparently dead but then in the end BOTH came back to life. It freaked me out.
which book?
@@arjundesai4476 Furies of Calderon by Jim Butcher
It can work with rare examples, and a high cost.
@@marocat4749 I’m now imagining a book where resurrection is possible, but at the cost of someone else’s life and other difficult things but the main part is the sacrifice, and the main characters decide to move on because they’re the good guys and don’t want to kill someone unnecessarily, except one person, maybe they’re struggling with their mental health or they were really close to the person who died, decides that they should die because they think no one will care but they don’t tell anyone, they just do whatever it is that is necessary to bring the person back to life and they die and no one can stop them, and maybe no one notices they’re gone until the person that originally died shows up and I would cry if that was written well and I want to use this in a story now; I can think of one that I could adapt to work with this, wow that sentence was long. *gasp*
@@ihopeicanchangethisnamelat7108 there is an anime that sort of covers that named full metal alchemist. The two main characters tried to resurect their mother and it didn't work, instead it took one of the brothers body and the other brother had to give up his arm and leg to save his brother. In the end they discover the one thing they have been hunting that could resurect their mother and get the body less siblings body back is made of hundreds or even thousands of peoples souls. It starts like a light hearted kids show and slowly gets darker as they realize what they are chasing and what people they looked up to were creating. It's a great show if you don't mind a cartoon
These videos are awesome for people like me who want to write books!! So, I guess I am saying “Thank you for this lifesaver of a video”.
*slowdown frame rate of the battle*
Movies lag confirmed
I can completely get your beef with resurrections, especially since I almost wrote myself into a corner by having my MC bring back not one but two characters with her powers (one of them almost a whole year after he died), but then a plot point of the sequel is that she's mourning the death of one of her kids in a surprise attack, so I had to scramble for a reason why she can't bring him back (I came up with one, but yeah, i'm expecting someone to call me out, lol).
Broke: long death scenes for characters we love with a long pause in the action.
Woke: sudden deaths for characters we love giving us no opportunity to grasp what just happened or break until the end of the battle.
They're there exchanging banter....
.
.
.
Then they're gone.
I think you can still stretch a moment in a book by writing a descriptive paragraph about how the character is feeling in that split second
Everytime you were mentioning or rather trying to mention reds seas under red skies I was like YEAH I feel you 😂
There was this one show I was watching where a character was killed but I managed to keep it all together and thought I was going to make it without crying, and then the very next scene was a character just completely breaking down as he tells a friend who wasn't there what happened and then this friend, who is very tough and not touchy feely normally, just hugged him and I freaking lost it 😭
Hot take: I think resurrection CAN work if the character in question comes back as a different person, having lost something. The character they were is still dead and we can mourn who they used to be.
Like Lady Stoneheart?
@@jakehopkins6989 Exactly! GRRM does this really well
Or you could just have it cost another main character's life. I think a life for a life revival is one of the best remedies because the totally people who are dead is still the same.
@@omnianimator8468 I just wrote a comment and I can’t be bothered to write it out again so here it is copied and pasted:
I’m now imagining a book where resurrection is possible, but at the cost of someone else’s life and other difficult things but the main part is the sacrifice, and the main characters decide to move on because they’re the good guys and don’t want to kill someone unnecessarily, except one person, maybe they’re struggling with their mental health or they were really close to the person who died, decides that they should die because they think no one will care but they don’t tell anyone, they just do whatever it is that is necessary to bring the person back to life and they die and no one can stop them, and maybe no one notices they’re gone until the person that originally died shows up and I would cry if that was written well and I want to use this in a story now; I can think of one that I could adapt to work with this, wow that sentence was long. gasp
Not a book, but one of the better examples of resurrection I can think of in film/television is probably from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer."
While the sixth season definitely isn't my favorite overall, I did like how they didn't gloss over what it means to bring someone back to life, and most of the titular character's development in that season revolves around her trying to cope with being dragged back into a violent and chaotic world after months of experiencing nothing but the pure and absolute peace she found in death. She's trying to hide the truth from her friends because they're so ecstatic to have her back, fighting with the guilt of *not* being happy to be back, struggling with mundane issues like being behind on house payments (due to her...you know...death) and holding down a job, etc. Basically, it treated her resurrection in a somewhat realistic way and as the genuinely big deal that it was, rather than everyone just going about their happy everyday lives. And her story arc in the season ends not with her just getting over it and being better, but realizing that she still has something worth living for, no matter how much of a struggle continuing to live might be.
It's so much more relatable and engaging than the character just popping back up like "Well, that was a thing. Now back to adventuring!" like absolutely nothing has changed after they literally died and came back to life.
I think GRRM handles resurrection better than anyone I've seen. In the books, given how these resurrected people turn out (or in the case of how Jon Snow will likely turn out), it would have been a kinder fate to leave them dead. It gives a real horrific and emotionally devastating cost to the resurrection trope, which normally just erases all tension from the story.
I actually think the first one could be utilized well. It just depends on context. In fact, the book I'm writing now has this same thing happening where they mourn someone in battle. Except it's a based on the year 1872 and it's a gunfight, and the character is crouched behind a wall as he mourns. On deaths, context matters. If you want them to have final words, make the thing that happens to them slow enough for that to happen. Though sometimes a fast death is just as effective. Just write it well and it will work.
Strong agree on the Resurrection and the New Character introduced late only to die thing. I hate those. One ruins the sacrifice and makes it meaningless, the other is often way too obvious. Give me a character to love and follow, that is killed, and doesn't come back. That'll hit me in the feels hard.
I feel like most people in this video don't actually know what death and dying are actually like. Yes, it can take a long time to die from multiple stab wounds. It would be slow and painful. A punctured long doesn't stop you from talking (you have two). It hurts, yeah, you will die, yes, but you'd still be able to talk for quite a bit.
And back to being stabbed, yay! Even a serious wound, like a split artery, can and will take around and more than five minutes. Even if it's from multiple sources. So yes, I can and will give my thirty-second monologue through gritted teeth. Come on guys, movies aren't reality.
I am definitely one of those readers who would rather the main characters make it out unscathed! I did really appreciate this discussion. I'll have to go check out the others in the series.
"Remember the avatar scene?"
The one with the blue aliens? That's the only one that comes to mind, Also why did you throw up a green box when you were talking about fight scenes in this movie?
I guess what we can take away from the aftermath of a meaningful death in a story is that in real life any meaningful death of someone you know that you experience, WILL change you. You may not be sad for a long time, you may experience different emotions than that. You may process or not process it, but you will be changed in some minor to major way. I think when writers don't show this, it tells us two things: 1) the person who died wasn't really that meaningful and 2) our main character might just be a puppet for the author to get through plot points, rather than a character we get to know like a fellow human being.