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The Very Recent Origins of the Christmas Tree 0350am 18.12.23 i aint particularly pagan, either or christian or religious... but the festive period is worth engaging with...
I'm from the upper rhine valley, and it was interesting to hear about the medieval custom of going into the forest around christmas time to gather branches, because it's still done today before christmas. However, it's not related to the christmas tree, but we gather the branches to make advent wreaths. So I wonder if it could be more related to an early version of advent wreaths rather than the christmas tree.
My mother also told me moss and branches would be gathered around All Souls Day to cover graves, and assumedly left there over the winter! Some people still do it here, but apparently it used to be very different because they collected a type of what she described as "white moss" (Lichen???) with the branches that doesn't really grow here anymore. And it's funny to stumble across this comment, I literally just finished my (late) advent wreath!
Its a pagan custom. Jeremiah 10:2-4 Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest,The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers, So that it will not topple.
I am studying forestry laws around the world. Do you have more info about it? From what I know, Magna charta and the charter of the forest also regulate forest usage.
I'm a bit surprised they exist. I would've assumed they were all a single sentence- cut them all down & farm them, unless they are for the king/ nobles to hunt on.
I've always felt that with most holiday traditions, similarities are less about stealing and more of a "convergent evolution." People are just people, and we tend to like the same types of things at the same time of year.
@@nikoblack1272 Especially since having a live tree in the house helps with air quality since the tree will produce Oxygen and take away CO2. Not to mention it smells nice. These are beneficial things to have during a season in which people tend to stay inside for warmth.
all that, plus, people cannot steal traditions from themselves ; if people preserved their pre-Christian ways in folk Christianity, that's a good thing because it made Christianity serve their needs better and it allowed them to maintain aspects of their cultures - i think there are too many neopagans who cling to ahistorical ideas ( reconstructionists don't tend to do that but most folks aren't reconstructionists ) and it's very...American evangelical of them lol
@@nikoblack1272 Exactly. I don't quite grasp the Neopagan tendency to make the old cults into some kind of modern religion. Indeed, when Julian the Apostate tried to do that with the Roman religion, it resulted in the Roman cults becoming too reliant on central authority and backing to survive Christianity's rise. The local cults that had clung on through the Constantinian Dynasty were suddenly exposed and vulnerable. If Neopagans want to be properly serious about their worship, they'd just gather in small local groups instead of trying to foster communities across large areas.
It seems like such an obvious idea: In the middle of winter when most plants are dormant and it's uncomfortable to go outside and enjoy what little there is of living nature, it makes perfect sense to bring something green and alive indoors to celebrate its beauty.
Yup! ergo, deck the halls with boughs of holly. Medieval people would have brought in holly, ivy, as well as herbs like rosemary and so on. Tudor era kissing boughs are interesting and worth looking into.
Totally logical. No flowers were in bloom, so they used what was available -greenery. It cheered the place up & probably made the air smell fresher too.
Right? It is funny to me though, that the custom is so wide spread, that in the blistering heat of summer around Christmas in NZ, people will literally import pine trees for the tradition.
Absolutely! And one time folks could have decorated those branches, and then continued to decorate them further, to their taste, on a yearly basis. Just a thought🎄
The Black Forest was originally a mixed forest, with spruce at higher elavations. It still is when allowed to grow naturally. The conifer forest they have here today is the result of replanting after heavy deforestation and relatively recent. I know people whose grandparents got time off from school for tree planting. So when peasants were gathering wood, they were gathering deciduous wood as well.
Another great video as always! This is one of those things I'm constantly trying to tell people. Just because something doesn't seem explicitly Christian (something which will depend on who you ask, since different people at different times have different ideas as to what this means) doesn't mean it is pagan. Christian people throughout history have been capable of developing folk practices too, not everything which isn't directly in the bible is pagan in origin.
But it was the christian apologists who claimed these outside things to be "pagan," and therefore not legitimate. Same thing continues today with conservative Christians who denounce folk traditions of people all over the world. And, what is pagan? Usually, it refers to practices outside of the "legitimate" religion. Pagan is not inherently bad. Seems fine to recognize that there is always a mix of religion with cultural practices. There really is no "pure" religion.
@@DarniseMartin "Pagan" in a scholarly context usually is a catch-all term for non-Christian and non-Jewish religions in the Ancient World and Europe. So yeah, it's not inherently bad.
I am not a Christian but was raised in a Christian religion that forbade all holidays because they were "pagan" and it is so annoying hearing atheists and neo-pagans make the same arguments my fundamentalist church did. Yes, i have no doubt that some practices are tied to ancient folk customs but to draw a direct line to the present and act as though Christians are continuing a pagan practice is just ridiculous. That'd be like going to a funeral and accusing everyone of being pagan because they embalmed the corpse like Egyptians did or cremated it like the Romans did. It's asinine.
ah, Puritans. They were amongst the first to do that, in fact. FOr them "Catholic" and "Pagan" were basically interchangeable. Very funny to have atheists and neo-pagans reurgitate protestant extremists propaganda.
Yes it's also ridiculous to equate something made by pagans to be a pagan tradition. Is cooking pagan? Sewing clothing? Tons of stuff pagans did were secular. By this logic cars, fridges and lightbulbs are Christian because they were invented by Christians like no. Gunpowder was ACTUALLY invented as part of Taoist religious practices but nobody in their right mind claims it is a Taoist tradition, lol, or distilling spirits an Islamic one.
So, then... the pagan Christmas tree origin story is an example of living culture. An idea gets started, it becomes widely attractive in context of the current culture, it gets propagated, becomes popular, and eventually becomes iconic. Were it not for modern resources enabling research, no one would know the difference and the idea of pagan origins would either become canon or would fade as the culture evolves away from it.
No it is an example of the narrator cherry picking , the entire festival of christmas is pagan , there are countless pages of testimony of heathens defying conversion unless they can keep their traditions, hence halloween , Easter , christmas , none of this exists in the bible , if christians followed the bible they would be celebrating passover like their prophet or god
@@marvalice3455 Well that's good to know. A story's popularity, its place in the culture, depends on breadth of dissemination, vs. the existence of records. The people familiar with those records 50 years ago might have been a few dozen academics. On the other hand, Coca-Cola's version of Santa Claus, published over 30 years in American magazine ads during the early 20th century, is responsible for modern Santa's popular image - pretty much canon -in America. Today, 133K people have viewed this video. I don't know how Prof. Henry went about obtaining his research but it's surely thanks to modern resources, as is recent popularity of the "pagan" origin story of the Christmas tree. We'll have to see what wins out, I guess!
Ramadan was a #Pagan Ritual 😂 Narrated 'Aisha: 'Ashura' (i.e. the tenth of Muharram) was a day on which the tribe of Quraish used to fast in the pre-lslamic period of ignorance. The Prophet also used to fast on this day. So when he migrated to Medina, he fasted on it and ordered (the Muslims) to fast on it. When the fasting of Ramadan was enjoined, it became optional for the people to fast or not to fast on the day of Ashura. Sahih al-Bukhari 3831 Book 63, Hadith 56 ISLAM = copy paste Polytheistic religion
The dedication it must've taken to pull together all of these sources and bits of potential evidence is blowing my mind. Even going so far as to include scholarship not in your native language.....you are a truly impressive person, Dr. Henry. Thank you for your work.
Its a pagan custom. Jeremiah 10:2-4 Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest,The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers, So that it will not topple.
@@dexyangaryputin This verse is talking about Idolatry which is very clearly addressed in verse 5 which you conveniently leave out. Nice try tho buddy. Maybe next time
@@joselitofilipino9618 No, because I watched quite a lot of his videos and am familiar with some sources he quotes. His interpretation is biased. This is just my opinion tho, don't allow it to sway you either way.
@@marvalice3455 Interesting as in complex, more nuanced, more reflective of how human life really is with surprising facts that don't fit into a tidy narrative. Stories we make up are wonderful and inspiring but they are also neatly packaged, no loose ends, this can become very clear when we try to represent them in a real world context, suddenly things we can imagine don't work very well in real life. Don't get me wrong, I love stories, but I also like finding out about actual history and how real people lived.
It's really nice to see another medieval forest management law-head in the wild. I've been collecting the merch for years, gone to a few medieval forest management cons...
Funnily enough, as Lutherans we were taught that Luther embraced the Christmas tree as symbolic of the Nativity and encouraged Protestants to use it. No idea if there's any historical basis for that. Also, 0:42 is the best intro to a video I've seen in years, and I work on UA-cam videos for a living.
He's right. During the Great War's Christmas Truce in 1914, British Troops saw German Troops celebrating with Christmas Trees. It was the first time a lot of the Brits had ever seen Christmas Tree, and the practice became popular in Britain after the War ended.
@@Wasserkaktuswhats germans dressing up a tree got to do with jesus? Even if it's not pagan, it still has nothing to do with Jesus nor Christianity so its wrong to associate the tree to Christmas Right?
@@freeyourmind7538 December 25th also has f*ck-all to do with JC. His alleged birth was a totally different month. BUT, December 21st was and remains a long established celebration among many northern hemisphere peoples celebrating return of the light. Early Christian appropriation of local pre-Christian deities and festivals is well known.
It's like the neo-pagans have made it an article of dogma that every christian tradition was "stolen" from an earlier pre-christian one, and when you point out that there's no historical evidence for this, or even directly contradictory evidence, they seethe about it more than any Christian I've ever met when you disagree with them.
A lot of neopagans tend to get this idea that their religion is only legitimate because it’s ancient; and, because they have so few legitimate ancient sources for how old pagan religions were practiced, they get attached to this idea that any elements from Christian religion that are not explicitly Biblical in origin must therefore have been pagan survivals. I’m an (atheo)pagan myself, so I understand the desire. But there’s nothing wrong with just saying, my set of spiritual ritual practices is pretty new, it was recently created, but that doesn’t mean it’s not meaningful or real! Embrace it.
Unfortunately there exists a group of weirdos who think they can delegitimize Christianity if they “prove” the link between paganism and the Christmas tree.
I love all your content but my favorite videos are hands down when you tackle misinformation. It is always so interesting and such a relief to get info from a reliable source!
Serbian Christmas tradition Christmas Eve is called Badnje veče in Serbian. It comes from the word "badnjak", which is pagan name for young oak tree, used for fire ritual for the feast of Svarog, Slavic god of Sun (at Winter Solstice, around 25. of December). The second word means eve, just like in the English name. We celebrate it on January 6th.(Because church is still using "old" Julian calendar that’s 13 days late compared to the Gregorian) If you’d like to start learning Serbian ways of celebrating Christmas, you should know that many customs are rooted in the old Slavic pagan history. Of course, the church adjusted them to Christian beliefs, but their origin is undoubtedly pagan. For example, one of our main Christmas Eve traditions is young oak logging. We call this tree badnjak. Sometimes, people cut the whole tree, but often they only take a branch. Men go to oak logging in the woods first thing in the morning. It’s a cheerful tradition, often accompanied by singing and toasting. Then, they place badnjak next to their house’s entrance door but don’t bring it in until evening. In the evening, they bring it in along with hay. If there are children in a family, there’s a warm but somewhat forgotten tradition. When entering the house with badnjak, one of the parents throws hay and sweets around while mimicking cackling. Children then peck like chickens and search for sweets. Hay symbolizes the stable where Jesus was born. Since it’s not easy to go to oak logging in big cities, there’s a possibility of buying a few branches on the streets. If you visit Serbia during Christmas period, you’ll see many people selling oak branches the day before Christmas. Learning Serbian Christmas Eve traditions is impossible without the burning of a badnjak. It’s a crucial Christmas Eve tradition. Serbs traditionally burn the young oak tree while saying prayers and wishing for happiness and prosperity in the year to come. The log burns on Christmas Eve and Christmas. In Serbian towns and cities, there’s always an organized badnjak burning ceremony in front of the church or the city center. It’s a perfect way for people living in flats to honor the tradition while avoiding burning down their buildings by accident! Badnjak symbolizes oak used to warm the stable in a cave when Christ was born. The interesting fact is it’s an inherited tradition since oak was the old pagan Slavs’ sacred tree! So, Serbs acquired the tradition of decorating a Christmas tree, but the crucial tree during Serbian Christmas is undoubtedly the young oak tree - badnjak.
I’m offering what I call the cheap pragmatic decoration theory. Modern people usually decorate with manufactured goods made of plastic and paper, but prior to industrialization these would have been very expensive or nonexistent. People decorated for most festivals using natural materials that were in abundance: flowers in spring, harvested vegetables in fall, and evergreen plants in winter. I think it’s possible that late medieval Germans would have decorated for any festival in the winter with a fir tree, but with the reformation and the end of saints’ feasts there was only one winter celebration left.
Alan Alda’s podcast asks the guest, “How do you tell someone they have their facts wrong?” You tell them a story with evidence and explain how the incorrect notion was born. Well done. Thank you for making me a little better informed!
Awesome video. I'm not Christian myself, but I always get so annoyed by the people that tout themselves as more "knowledgeable and fact based" than Christians, and then clearly just latch onto any idea of something Christian being pagan. It's so clearly not about trying to explain history, it's just about trying to have a "gotcha" on Christians
Especially when most of the "historical" evidence they can provide is from more puritanical protestant Christians denouncing medieval extrabiblical practices as "pagan" because they weren't in the Bible
For me it's trying to connect to my ancestors that weren't Christian. Many beliefs and holidays do have connections to pagan beliefs but that also is covering a lot of different people when we say pagan. It's hard when so much Christian views are put up as most important in places like the US. I think it often comes from people wanting something else or to reconnect not trying to be "right" or better then Christians. Often the shame comes from Christians not pagans for most things.
Great video. Very informative. I would add that I watched a video by Professor Ronald Hutton recently about folk customs within christianised peoples. He has come to the conclusion that many folk customs are neither truly Christian or truly Pagan. They are their own thing and must be studied distinctly, on their own merit…
What I love here is just talking- no yelling or aggression. I miss polite conversation and hate the need to yell over people. He also does a great job research wise.
My guess is that the whole Christmas tree tradition is an extension of the medieval practice of covering their floors with pine boughs and straw. This covering was a form of odor control and the coverings were often thrown out and replaced, almost like cleaning out a horse stable.
The vikings celebrated "Jul" which was the midwinter solstice and that name is still the Swedish word for "Christmas" to this day. The God Odin, big beardy guy, was said to travel around during that time of the year and he would occasionally visit random homes bringing gifts. The celebrations included the tradition of putting a small fir or pine tree, a branch basically, on the roof and this later morphed into putting a slightly bigger tree on the ground outside. I'm not sure if any decorations were included from the beginning but I know that later it was a common to use a spire as the top piece and not a star. I've heard that the spire was supposed to represent the tip of Odin's spear, which sounds plausible but I'm not sure of the veracity of such claims. In the 1700s we copied the Germans and started bringing the trees inside.
As a Christian, this video was so vindicating . For years many of us have been trying to explain to the broader public that the Christmas tree (and the holiday in general) is not a Pagan innovation. (There’s a Christian UA-camr named Inspiring Philosophy that’s been explaining this for years). I’m glad that this is being presented from an Academic perspective as well.
"Honey, why is there a...pine tree in our living room?" "I LIKE IT! We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna decorate it...for Jesus!" EDIT: I should note that this is from a Jim Gaffigan bit.
It's beautifully symbolic in the Christian worldview, which is dendrocentric. They probably weren't totally consciously aware of that, but patterns play out subtly sometimes.
The medieval forestry bit reminds me of the "Good King Wenceslaus" carol. The whole song is about St King Wenceslaus seeing a poor man gathering wood, presumably from the titular king's land. Of course, this king has his servant fetch meat and wine so they can go celebrate with the poor man, rather than punish him for breaking forestry laws.
It's really great that it was discovered that the Christmas tree was a tradition from Alsace! I actually live in Elsàss and we're also known for inventing the Christmas Market, so, if we also invented the tree in the first place, that makes our ethnic group, region and culture even cooler! Love to Elsàss!!! 🥨🇲🇨
How is the state of ethnic Elsassians? Is the language still spoken? I've been to Strassbourg recently - two old bus drivers talked to each other in a mix of French and Elsassian, and spoke German fluently when asked for directions. The younger folks seemed to speak French exclusively. Is my observation correct? How is it on the countryside?
@@PeterSchmuttermaier I spent a few days in a very rural area in the north of Alsace and I was very surprised that basically everyone in the villages spoke German. Until then my experience was the same as yours with only a few people speaking German in Strasbourg. According to the people I talked to in the villages German is still widely spoken in the countryside, but the bigger cities are more francophone due to many people moving there from all over France. But it would be interesting to getgamermapper's opinion.
@@PeterSchmuttermaier French forced assimilation is almost complete, unfortunately. But Elsässisch still exists, it's much more active than for example Occitan, Gascon, Breton, etc. Ethnic Alsatians living in villages still often speak it.
You joke about the medieval forestry law being "boring" but I once spent a few days doing a deep dive on Japanese historical silviculture and it was absolutely fascinating. Admitedly, it was VERY difficult to get anyone else interested in it when sharing what I found, but I appreciate it! People for some reason tend to assume regulated silviculture is a more recent invention than it is (At least here in the US. I am assuming those in the UK or elsewhere in western europe are probably a bit more aware due to their own deforestation issues).
I appreciate that the presenter doesn't just pretend that something is true, and accurately labels things as "educated guesses", so refreshing! Merry Christmas!
I find it amusing that so many people think seasons, climate, weather, and basic solar observations that have been noticed and celebrated since the early days of archeo-astronomy aren't universal.
Great video! Honestly, when I was younger (queer neurodivergent teen going through religious trauma and general rough times) I did my part to spread the misinformation. Not consciously, mind you, but I definitely barely looked into it enough to confirm it. This was definitely made worse by the fact that my self-discovery led to me getting into modern witchcraft, which got me in a ton of trouble despite it doing wonders for the start of my healing (I still sometimes practice because the sweet sweet placebo helps tremendously--I struggle to believe religiously, but placebos have been the closest I've ever gotten since I was too small to think). I try to be a lot more open about religion (specifically anything dealing with the Bible, since I've actually already always been fascinated by other religions and been mindful of respecting them), but it is hard when the types of Christians surrounding me are the loud hateful type. I've grown and learned enough that most Christians are not that, but when you live very rural the open-hearted and more accepting kind seem to be the exception. I still get unnaturally upset anytime I hear the "keep Christ in Christmas" line and am generally annoyed by how genuinely offended they get when I say "happy holidays" instead of "merry Christmas," as if me being more mindful of diverse beliefs and practices is terrible and that I should only be validating Christianity. Saying Christmas as we know it came from stolen (heavy word, I know now) pagan traditions was my little way of getting back at the extremists that traumatized me in the first place as a kid. But they're not the same people and lashing out will not give me closure for everything the adults surrounding me stole from me as a kid. I find myself incredibly jealous of people who have the capacity to believe, and that jealously certainly makes it worse. I appreciate your channel and how you don't act like something is 100% certain when all we have is educated guesses. I appreciate your thorough research and ability to convey that information well. I appreciate how you cover things non-judgmentally. It's one of the things that helped me heal my personal religious trauma to a point where I don't lash out like I used to and respect Christians similarly to how I respect any other religion or practice for the most part (still though, only as far as each individual respects my existence--I won't suffer someone actively hateful). Keep up the good work!
Fatwood from pine sap is a great firestarter especially during the time of year when it may be colder and wetter. Gathering pine as it gets closer to Christmas makes sense if the people in the area were just trying to keep warm for the winter.
Thank you for bringing attention to the "conifer curious." I have been conifer curious most of my life and It was only until recently when i moved to the redwood forest of northern California that i discovered a growing community of the conifer curious. It has been a life changing experience to freely celebrate all thing coniferous. As this videos shows these traditions go back hundreds of years. If you yourself are conifer curious, just know that you are loved and not alone. ❤️🎄
There is though... It's from the rites of Attis, the savior -god, from Phrygia. The symbol of the Pine tree has more meaning then this video is implying and has many similarities with that of Christ.
@@ToxicAvengerCleanYourMind a 100 year old self-published encyclopedia predating significant portions of modern scholarship? That does not seem like the most reliable or scholarly of sources.
@@djcfrompt And googling a book you've never read is some kind of achievement? I gave you your reference...seems like you just want to be stubborn and "be right", if you ask me...wasting time
I was always told that the bringing the Christmas Tree indoors was a coping mechanism, trying to bring a little Summer into the home during the Winter, and that it was in honor of the Holly King.
At this age where you don't know what to believe in regards to the origin of customs it is nice to see people at least debunking things that are obviously not true. It is honestly tiring to see people use pagan connections to diminish religions and especially Christianity with more and less accurate ways but it is nice that there are people like you that make accurate assessments in that regard. For me it wouldn't matter even if there were pagan connections but at the same time seeing how people are both inaccurate when they reference them and only do it to look down on the religion itself is honestly not that enjoyable. In any case, thank you for your work, the video was very well thought out.
There are more than one kind of “Christmas tree” two that offer support for the information presented are one from France and one from Friesland. The one from France is a three shelve arrangement with evergreen branches tied to the frame. The use for this is the shelves are for Christmas presents (apples and cookies). The one from Friesland is a lyre shaped frame with three cross pieces. Evergreen branches are attached to the outside of the frame and the cross pieces are used to support cookies depicting the paradise play with one cookie having the figures of Adam, Eve, the serpent and the paradise tree on it. These are still in use. In addition to the evergreen branches both designs are lit by candles. Last time I checked both designs are commercially available
Christmas tree (fer.: kenkenbuum; frasch: jülbuum; sölr.: Jöölboom; again: jülebuum I think it’s important to note that the Christmas tree at least through the imagery of the paradise tree is linked to fertility. Hence the apples and Adam, Eve and the serpent. Images still often found on the Joolbuum include farm animals, fish and the sort of long boats that could be confused with Viking longboats. So for the joolbuum on it’s path to becoming a Christmas tree one can easily image something some pagan thing in line with the old Norse religion where sacrifices are hung on trees being transformed into the Paradise Play with Adam and Eve then to the New Testament nativity. I don’t think the poor farmers and fishermen of Friesland kept those records so all we have now to connect the Christmas tree to some non-Christian practice is fantasy, speculation and confabulation However the horse hung on the Joolbuum does so seem in line with the Old Norse religion
Speaking of Christmas, I just bought a Ground News subscription for someone who’s really hard to shop for, because I trust you won’t accept sponsorships you don’t believe in. So, thanks!
Evergreen trees also have a distinctly strong fragrance; do you thing maybe they brought their boughs and branches inside to defeat the odors that would accumulate during the winter months, when lots of people were staying in their homes?
A question occurred to me based on the timing of when people were allowed to gather trees & wood. With some of the worst winter weather coming after the new year, wouldn't it also be safe to assume people were trying to load up on firewood for the long, cold winter season still ahead of them?
That summarises most Christmas traditions. Save stuff for winter, here I gift you a warm jumper, burn last year's Christmas tree for warmth, meet friends and family before you die of cold, put some lights up coz it's dark outside, etc. Your question is chicken and egg for me. In my opinion, classic Christmas traditions are inseparable from deep winters. Source: even the Christmas roast is a nightmare in my country because it's so hot.
You mention that this could be something taking place in the 13th century. What about Brumalia? Cato mentions that they cut down trees for the Brumalia on the Winter Solstice, and Christopher of Mytilene says they were still celebrating Bruamalia into the 11th century. Possibly ending after the sack of Constantinople. "Oak wood and also wood for vine props, is always ripe for cutting at the time of the winter solstice. Other species which bear seed are ripe when the seeds are mature, while those which are seedless are ripe when they shed bark." - Cato the Elder, Agricultura 17.1 (200 BCE)
Maybe they just thought a decorated tree was pretty, or they got the tree, told the forest owners the tree was gotten for religious reasons, then they burned it as firewood after Christmas.
As a neopagan I find this fascinating. I think so many people think bringing a tree into your house sounds pagan, therefore it must be pagan. I find this information to be so much more interesting. The only thing I will point out is the Celts and others weren’t very literate and most didn’t write things down. However, I have no interest perpetuating anything that smacks of nationalism and all the things that came from it. I really appreciate getting good academic information to bust myths that people in my own circles perpetuate. Plus the real history is just as interesting to me as what has been made up. Thank you for doing the good work!
I think many people think it’s pagan because it definitely does have those origins. Especially if they noted it in the Old Testament. See (Jeremiah 10:1-8) But I don’t care either way
While yes, the Celts and many others) didn't write things down, that doesn't really affect this video too much. By the time we get the first "modern" Christmas trees, Celtic religion was dead for centuries. If there were Celtic traditions that were similar, they didn't survive, as far as we can tell.
In the memories of Armenians from my region, Amasya in Turkey, I had read something. Either in Easter or in a carnivale in autumn, Armenians were gathering willow poles, and decorating it with flowers. Zarzalak( or something similar) was the name of the tree. I forgot the other traditions for the festival but they were decorating churches with flower trees and I believe they were doing kind of masque proom kind of theatral celebrations.
thank you thank you thank you for all the work you put into these videos and cite the sources you use. I have watched SO MANY videos on the "history of christmas" this year and this has been the best by far because I can truly say I trust the source
You should also take a look at the Orthodox Eastern Roman Empire precursor to Christmas trees. Paul, the Silentiary (c. 563) in his Ekphrasis of Hagia Sophia in Constantinople, describes in detail the lights of the icon screen and the pulpit of the Great Church. On the architrave of the icon screen there were metal cone shaped trees, like a pine tree or a cypress of tender foliage, where instead of fruits they had conical shaped lights, and it even records that illuminated crafted trees were throughout the church. “There is also on the silver columns above their capitals, a path full of light, glittering with bright clusters; these one might compare to the mountain-reared pine tree or to the cypress of tender foliage. Pointed at the summit, they are ringed by circles that gradually widen down to the lowest curve that surrounds the base of the trunk; and upon them have grown fiery flowers. Instead of a root, bows of silver have been affixed beneath these trees of flaming vegetation. And in the center of this beauteous grove, the form of the divine cross, studded with bright nails, blazes with light for mortal eyes… Late professor of Byzantine Archaeology at Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Constantine Kalokyris, titled Sacred Trees and the Eastern Origin of the Christmas Tree.
But none of those influenced the Western Christmas tree tradition. There was little to no cultural transmission between Eastern Orthodox and Western Catholics. Only at the most elite level was there even dialogue.
Its a pagan custom. Jeremiah 10:2-4 Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest,The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers, So that it will not topple.
As a pagan who raised by weird american protestants that considered whatever practices christians that aren't americans have to be """pagan""" and literally became missionaries to convert mexican and filipino christians to the american way of jesus, there's always something about seeing other pagans parrot the idea that any christianity that's weird is totally super pagan that always gets an ire out of me. Yeah sure there are some cases of pre christian religion influencing christian practices, just like there always is when two cultures are syncretized together. But not everything christians do that's weird is pagan in origin, christians are more than capable of inventing weird folky stuff themselves and saying anything in christianity that's weird is pagan is literally puritan propaganda. It's absurd.
Also did anyone else grow up Lutheran and hear the story that Martin Luther "invented" the Xmas tree after he was in the Black Forest at night and as he looked up to the heavens through the branches of the evergreens, he could see the stars; thus candles or lights on Xmas trees? No idea where this came from but was oft repeated.
Maybe a relevant data point on the supposed association between sacred trees and Christmas trees: Norwegians kept a form of sacred tree traditions alive into the 20th century - the tuntre and offertre (yard trees and sacrifice trees). These rare rural customs are not commonly associated with Christmas trees - which is a more middle class or bourgeois tradition imported from Denmark and Germany - for multiple reasons; the obvious one is the class thing - one was cast as the ridiculous superstitions of the credulous peasantry, the other as a decorative centerpiece and focus for fun and games at Christmas parties. Then there's the cultural tendency to place hardwoods and evergreens in different categories; a yard tree is a symbol of permanence, a connection to the spirit of the farm's founder and mirror of the fortune of the farm and extended family; damaging one used to be unthinkable - if even a branch falls, it's an omen of death. Sacrifice trees are ancient, often growing on or near burial mounds; some of these may have been coppiced to grow into odd shapes, but never cut down, at least until the modernisation and intensified campaigning against superstition of the last half of the 19th century. If anything, Christmas trees are the opposite - they start their careers by being cut down, are used as decoration for a short time, and then unceremoniously discarded. Come to think of it, maybe that's a connection - a sort of anti-sacred tree?
Woah. Great explanation of and then transition to ideological biases. I genuinely feel like this is NOT talked about enough bc im constantly surprised by how often things that seem setbin stone get corrected to end up being just some version told by geoups with an agenda
Not many people know that there are part of the pines that are eatable and have medicinal benefits. You can make tea with the pine needles. It’s interesting research.
Id read about late medieval guild sponsored tree decorations before and wondered if there could be a connection. It seems like decorating a christmas tree started out as a status symbol (a whole decorated tree in your house? How fancy!) and from then on it just didnt feel right NOT to have a christmas tree. As for mid-winter decor with (potential) pre-christian origins, I offer up himmeli/yulkrone. Though its tough to say if those are a pagan holdover or a catholic one. I think they're very pretty, myself.
The thing is it doesn’t even matter whether the origins of the Christmas tree are from Christian or non-Christian societies - it’s an amalgamation of all the above and in its current form it is newer in practice than people think. It’s a social custom, not a religious practice. They can and always have coexisted. It brings happiness (at least in theory) at a time of the year when nights are cold and long, and everyone is cooped up indoors (if you are in the northern hemisphere).
To add - I am not criticizing the video or this channel - I find it fascinating. I am more talking to anyone getting defensive about the topic one way or another.
Makes sense as for cutting more trees down in the winter. If it's anything like where I live the days get shorter and it is obviously colder so you would need more wood for heat and light. Not to mention for cooking during festival times. Also, a lit tree would provide more light to a room than a fireplace and separated placement of candles. Especially if the room was a larger hall. It could had started as having no meaning except as a practical solution for illuminating a space that looks pretty. And much like a big fireplace or table, something for people to gather around in the darkness.
Interesting video!!🙂 in the Scandinavian countrys Denmark, Norway and Sweden, Christmas is called “”Jul” (Yule) in our languages!🙂 so there must have been a Yule festival pre Christianity. I have always learned that when christianity was introduced, they took the old costumes, festivals and names and put them unto the new so it seemed more familieour to people and they could get used to it like for example Christmas, The Birth of Jesus was put where the old Yule festivals where before🙂 and Christmas is still called Jul i our country’s to this day🤗
I'm surprised you didn't mention the podłaźniczka, which are conifer branches used in Poland as decoration around Christmas. They're often made either into a hanging wreath or into a little upside down hanging tree. The description of the Rhine tradition makes me think of that and so I wonder whether or not there might be some kind of connection or if two regions just independently came up with the same idea since conifers are readily available in those regions to use as decorations anyway.
Great presentation of the scholarship on this topic! I’ve also read somewhere that the prototypical ornament, the red ball, is a natural development from the apples that were used as a proxy for the paradise fruit in the plays (a necessary feature of the play because the serpent needs to tempt Eve). Of course this would be just a guess without explicit evidence, but it seems like a coherent possibility that adds to the explanatory power of the eden plays being associated with the origin of the practice. Do you have any thoughts on this?
As a Scandinavian this raises some questions for me as the christmas three is heavily associated with the tradition of circle dancing, arguably of pagan origin. The dancing is performed while singing songs, some with seemingly pre christian themes. The question is did scandinavians perform circle dances on christmas before they adopted the christmas three, and if so what did they dance around, if anything.
Thank you for the information. I found the predecessor of the Christmas tree being the May Pole interesting. Especially since the May Pole is a fallic symbol and the dance around it is to encourage fertility.
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Can you do a video of the prophecy of Isaiah to help contectualize the current war in Israel/Gaza?
The Very Recent Origins of the Christmas Tree 0350am 18.12.23 i aint particularly pagan, either or christian or religious... but the festive period is worth engaging with...
Nothing recent about thousands of years old. It was written about over 3,000 years ago. You shouldn't lie.
@@theoryofpersonality1420 where?
I'm from the upper rhine valley, and it was interesting to hear about the medieval custom of going into the forest around christmas time to gather branches, because it's still done today before christmas. However, it's not related to the christmas tree, but we gather the branches to make advent wreaths. So I wonder if it could be more related to an early version of advent wreaths rather than the christmas tree.
My mother also told me moss and branches would be gathered around All Souls Day to cover graves, and assumedly left there over the winter! Some people still do it here, but apparently it used to be very different because they collected a type of what she described as "white moss" (Lichen???) with the branches that doesn't really grow here anymore. And it's funny to stumble across this comment, I literally just finished my (late) advent wreath!
My mother does that in England
Wie klein die Welt doch ist...
Scheiss Gelbfüßler :D
I thought of wreathes during the video.
I freaking LOVE medieval forestry practices. I DO feel spoiled!
Signed, Midwestern garden designer and plant geek
Its a pagan custom.
Jeremiah 10:2-4 Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest,The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers, So that it will not topple.
@@dexyangaryputin That describes the carving of an idol, not anything remotely similar to Christmas trees.
I am studying forestry laws around the world. Do you have more info about it? From what I know, Magna charta and the charter of the forest also regulate forest usage.
@@dexyangaryputinI keep seeing handles with just User, and they say things slightly on topic... Feels like bots.
I'm a bit surprised they exist. I would've assumed they were all a single sentence- cut them all down & farm them, unless they are for the king/ nobles to hunt on.
I've always felt that with most holiday traditions, similarities are less about stealing and more of a "convergent evolution." People are just people, and we tend to like the same types of things at the same time of year.
Especially when it's people who live in the same region as previous people. To adapt to the region, certain practices must be adopted.
i don't understand why this isn't intuitively apparent for people
@@nikoblack1272
Especially since having a live tree in the house helps with air quality since the tree will produce Oxygen and take away CO2. Not to mention it smells nice.
These are beneficial things to have during a season in which people tend to stay inside for warmth.
all that, plus, people cannot steal traditions from themselves ; if people preserved their pre-Christian ways in folk Christianity, that's a good thing because it made Christianity serve their needs better and it allowed them to maintain aspects of their cultures - i think there are too many neopagans who cling to ahistorical ideas ( reconstructionists don't tend to do that but most folks aren't reconstructionists ) and it's very...American evangelical of them lol
@@nikoblack1272
Exactly.
I don't quite grasp the Neopagan tendency to make the old cults into some kind of modern religion.
Indeed, when Julian the Apostate tried to do that with the Roman religion, it resulted in the Roman cults becoming too reliant on central authority and backing to survive Christianity's rise. The local cults that had clung on through the Constantinian Dynasty were suddenly exposed and vulnerable.
If Neopagans want to be properly serious about their worship, they'd just gather in small local groups instead of trying to foster communities across large areas.
“Conifer curious” is now my phrase of the week.
We love your show too Cheers!
Last video i watched was from you! Both great channels!
It's you!
ayyyyy!
It seems like such an obvious idea: In the middle of winter when most plants are dormant and it's uncomfortable to go outside and enjoy what little there is of living nature, it makes perfect sense to bring something green and alive indoors to celebrate its beauty.
The would explain the holly wreaths and mistletoe!
Yup! ergo, deck the halls with boughs of holly. Medieval people would have brought in holly, ivy, as well as herbs like rosemary and so on. Tudor era kissing boughs are interesting and worth looking into.
Totally logical. No flowers were in bloom, so they used what was available -greenery. It cheered the place up & probably made the air smell fresher too.
Right? It is funny to me though, that the custom is so wide spread, that in the blistering heat of summer around Christmas in NZ, people will literally import pine trees for the tradition.
Absolutely! And one time folks could have decorated those branches, and then continued to decorate them further, to their taste, on a yearly basis. Just a thought🎄
The Black Forest was originally a mixed forest, with spruce at higher elavations. It still is when allowed to grow naturally. The conifer forest they have here today is the result of replanting after heavy deforestation and relatively recent. I know people whose grandparents got time off from school for tree planting. So when peasants were gathering wood, they were gathering deciduous wood as well.
Another great video as always! This is one of those things I'm constantly trying to tell people. Just because something doesn't seem explicitly Christian (something which will depend on who you ask, since different people at different times have different ideas as to what this means) doesn't mean it is pagan. Christian people throughout history have been capable of developing folk practices too, not everything which isn't directly in the bible is pagan in origin.
Oh and any day I get to hear about medieval forest management law is a great day
Thoroughly agree with you. Not everything that isn't explicitly Christian is pagan, and medieval forest managment law is fascinating
It's not like Christianity is somehow inherently more valid than paganism anywah
But it was the christian apologists who claimed these outside things to be "pagan," and therefore not legitimate. Same thing continues today with conservative Christians who denounce folk traditions of people all over the world. And, what is pagan? Usually, it refers to practices outside of the "legitimate" religion. Pagan is not inherently bad. Seems fine to recognize that there is always a mix of religion with cultural practices. There really is no "pure" religion.
@@DarniseMartin "Pagan" in a scholarly context usually is a catch-all term for non-Christian and non-Jewish religions in the Ancient World and Europe. So yeah, it's not inherently bad.
This is hands down my favorite history youtube channel. Thank you for making such clear and interesting videos with great sources 👍
@@alvankarpas6245 What are you talking about? Andrew explicitly cites scripture in several of his videos, where it is relevant as a historical source.
I am not a Christian but was raised in a Christian religion that forbade all holidays because they were "pagan" and it is so annoying hearing atheists and neo-pagans make the same arguments my fundamentalist church did. Yes, i have no doubt that some practices are tied to ancient folk customs but to draw a direct line to the present and act as though Christians are continuing a pagan practice is just ridiculous. That'd be like going to a funeral and accusing everyone of being pagan because they embalmed the corpse like Egyptians did or cremated it like the Romans did. It's asinine.
ah, Puritans. They were amongst the first to do that, in fact. FOr them "Catholic" and "Pagan" were basically interchangeable. Very funny to have atheists and neo-pagans reurgitate protestant extremists propaganda.
It’s pretty weird seeing modern atheists appropriating old anti-Catholic arguments and repackaging them as anti-Christian.
I fail to see your point, sorry
Yes it's also ridiculous to equate something made by pagans to be a pagan tradition. Is cooking pagan? Sewing clothing? Tons of stuff pagans did were secular. By this logic cars, fridges and lightbulbs are Christian because they were invented by Christians like no. Gunpowder was ACTUALLY invented as part of Taoist religious practices but nobody in their right mind claims it is a Taoist tradition, lol, or distilling spirits an Islamic one.
So, then... the pagan Christmas tree origin story is an example of living culture. An idea gets started, it becomes widely attractive in context of the current culture, it gets propagated, becomes popular, and eventually becomes iconic. Were it not for modern resources enabling research, no one would know the difference and the idea of pagan origins would either become canon or would fade as the culture evolves away from it.
No it is an example of the narrator cherry picking , the entire festival of christmas is pagan , there are countless pages of testimony of heathens defying conversion unless they can keep their traditions, hence halloween , Easter , christmas , none of this exists in the bible , if christians followed the bible they would be celebrating passover like their prophet or god
Actually the medievals were extremely studious, the idea of checking records is the least modern a thing can be.
All records exist to be checked.
@@marvalice3455 Well that's good to know. A story's popularity, its place in the culture, depends on breadth of dissemination, vs. the existence of records. The people familiar with those records 50 years ago might have been a few dozen academics.
On the other hand, Coca-Cola's version of Santa Claus, published over 30 years in American magazine ads during the early 20th century, is responsible for modern Santa's popular image - pretty much canon -in America.
Today, 133K people have viewed this video. I don't know how Prof. Henry went about obtaining his research but it's surely thanks to modern resources, as is recent popularity of the "pagan" origin story of the Christmas tree. We'll have to see what wins out, I guess!
@@mjinba07 truth will always win in the end. Lies have no real ontology
Ramadan was a #Pagan Ritual 😂
Narrated 'Aisha: 'Ashura' (i.e. the tenth of Muharram) was a day on which the tribe of Quraish used to fast in the pre-lslamic period of ignorance. The Prophet also used to fast on this day. So when he migrated to Medina, he fasted on it and ordered (the Muslims) to fast on it. When the fasting of Ramadan was enjoined, it became optional for the people to fast or not to fast on the day of Ashura.
Sahih al-Bukhari 3831
Book 63, Hadith 56
ISLAM = copy paste Polytheistic religion
The dedication it must've taken to pull together all of these sources and bits of potential evidence is blowing my mind. Even going so far as to include scholarship not in your native language.....you are a truly impressive person, Dr. Henry. Thank you for your work.
I was told this was a "poorly researched rant" by someone in the pagan community, who didn't like what the evidence suggests - lol
Missed pun opportunity with "we can infer" and "we conifer."
Excellent video, as always!
Thanks so much for addressing this huge topic of misinformation and also educating people on how real unbiased research is supposed to work!
Its a pagan custom.
Jeremiah 10:2-4 Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest,The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers, So that it will not topple.
@@dexyangaryputin This verse is talking about Idolatry which is very clearly addressed in verse 5 which you conveniently leave out. Nice try tho buddy. Maybe next time
This channel is heavily biased.
@@lavinder11Because it doesn’t agree with you conclusions, is that why?😂😂
@@joselitofilipino9618 No, because I watched quite a lot of his videos and am familiar with some sources he quotes. His interpretation is biased. This is just my opinion tho, don't allow it to sway you either way.
"Anyone who says otherwise is making stuff up." You just summarized 90% of the Internet.
Sometimes the real story is more interesting, and complex than the narratives that we keep telling ourselves.
I find this to be so true, the stories we humans come up with are nothing compared to the complex and endlessly interesting reality.
Truth really is stranger than fiction
@pthaloblue100
More interesting than modern stories maybe...
But even than it depends on what you mean by interestinh
@@marvalice3455 Interesting as in complex, more nuanced, more reflective of how human life really is with surprising facts that don't fit into a tidy narrative. Stories we make up are wonderful and inspiring but they are also neatly packaged, no loose ends, this can become very clear when we try to represent them in a real world context, suddenly things we can imagine don't work very well in real life. Don't get me wrong, I love stories, but I also like finding out about actual history and how real people lived.
It's really nice to see another medieval forest management law-head in the wild. I've been collecting the merch for years, gone to a few medieval forest management cons...
You are doing exemplary historiography: careful, cautious, and with explicit description of the evidence its limits. Brilliant!
Funnily enough, as Lutherans we were taught that Luther embraced the Christmas tree as symbolic of the Nativity and encouraged Protestants to use it. No idea if there's any historical basis for that.
Also, 0:42 is the best intro to a video I've seen in years, and I work on UA-cam videos for a living.
As a Catholic I've learned the same, that Luther invented Christmas tree.
He knew the pagans did it and wanted to entice them to come to church. That’s the real truth on Luther and the tree.
@@reflectionsinthebible3579the pagans of 16th century Germany?
@@reflectionsinthebible3579 There was no pagans in Lutheran's time lol
@@davidhildebrandt7812 yeah lol at that point pagans in Europe either don’t exist or are so few
I am floridan, married to a Danish man. He always toldme and our kids that the origin of the Christmas tree came from
Germany.
It's possible to have parallels and different origins
He's right.
During the Great War's Christmas Truce in 1914, British Troops saw German Troops celebrating with Christmas Trees. It was the first time a lot of the Brits had ever seen Christmas Tree, and the practice became popular in Britain after the War ended.
@@Wasserkaktuswhats germans dressing up a tree got to do with jesus?
Even if it's not pagan, it still has nothing to do with Jesus nor Christianity so its wrong to associate the tree to Christmas
Right?
@@freeyourmind7538 You should watch the video.
@@freeyourmind7538 December 25th also has f*ck-all to do with JC. His alleged birth was a totally different month. BUT, December 21st was and remains a long established celebration among many northern hemisphere peoples celebrating return of the light. Early Christian appropriation of local pre-Christian deities and festivals is well known.
You have helped my family settle a decades long argument about putting up a tree. Thank you so much for your great videos!
People get really mad about this topic for some reason and its not the Christians.
It's like the neo-pagans have made it an article of dogma that every christian tradition was "stolen" from an earlier pre-christian one, and when you point out that there's no historical evidence for this, or even directly contradictory evidence, they seethe about it more than any Christian I've ever met when you disagree with them.
Yea, if it was Starbucks cups it be a different matter!
A lot of neopagans tend to get this idea that their religion is only legitimate because it’s ancient; and, because they have so few legitimate ancient sources for how old pagan religions were practiced, they get attached to this idea that any elements from Christian religion that are not explicitly Biblical in origin must therefore have been pagan survivals. I’m an (atheo)pagan myself, so I understand the desire. But there’s nothing wrong with just saying, my set of spiritual ritual practices is pretty new, it was recently created, but that doesn’t mean it’s not meaningful or real! Embrace it.
Unfortunately there exists a group of weirdos who think they can delegitimize Christianity if they “prove” the link between paganism and the Christmas tree.
@@allisonguthrie8257The modern cosplay religions are desperately looking for legitimacy.
I love all your content but my favorite videos are hands down when you tackle misinformation. It is always so interesting and such a relief to get info from a reliable source!
Serbian Christmas tradition
Christmas Eve is called Badnje veče in Serbian. It comes from the word "badnjak", which is pagan name for young oak tree, used for fire ritual for the feast of Svarog, Slavic god of Sun (at Winter Solstice, around 25. of December).
The second word means eve, just like in the English name. We celebrate it on January 6th.(Because church is still using "old" Julian calendar that’s 13 days late compared to the Gregorian)
If you’d like to start learning Serbian ways of celebrating Christmas, you should know that many customs are rooted in the old Slavic pagan history. Of course, the church adjusted them to Christian beliefs, but their origin is undoubtedly pagan.
For example, one of our main Christmas Eve traditions is young oak logging. We call this tree badnjak. Sometimes, people cut the whole tree, but often they only take a branch.
Men go to oak logging in the woods first thing in the morning. It’s a cheerful tradition, often accompanied by singing and toasting. Then, they place badnjak next to their house’s entrance door but don’t bring it in until evening.
In the evening, they bring it in along with hay. If there are children in a family, there’s a warm but somewhat forgotten tradition. When entering the house with badnjak, one of the parents throws hay and sweets around while mimicking cackling. Children then peck like chickens and search for sweets. Hay symbolizes the stable where Jesus was born.
Since it’s not easy to go to oak logging in big cities, there’s a possibility of buying a few branches on the streets. If you visit Serbia during Christmas period, you’ll see many people selling oak branches the day before Christmas.
Learning Serbian Christmas Eve traditions is impossible without the burning of a badnjak. It’s a crucial Christmas Eve tradition. Serbs traditionally burn the young oak tree while saying prayers and wishing for happiness and prosperity in the year to come. The log burns on Christmas Eve and Christmas.
In Serbian towns and cities, there’s always an organized badnjak burning ceremony in front of the church or the city center. It’s a perfect way for people living in flats to honor the tradition while avoiding burning down their buildings by accident!
Badnjak symbolizes oak used to warm the stable in a cave when Christ was born. The interesting fact is it’s an inherited tradition since oak was the old pagan Slavs’ sacred tree!
So, Serbs acquired the tradition of decorating a Christmas tree, but the crucial tree during Serbian Christmas is undoubtedly the young oak tree - badnjak.
I’m offering what I call the cheap pragmatic decoration theory. Modern people usually decorate with manufactured goods made of plastic and paper, but prior to industrialization these would have been very expensive or nonexistent. People decorated for most festivals using natural materials that were in abundance: flowers in spring, harvested vegetables in fall, and evergreen plants in winter. I think it’s possible that late medieval Germans would have decorated for any festival in the winter with a fir tree, but with the reformation and the end of saints’ feasts there was only one winter celebration left.
Alan Alda’s podcast asks the guest, “How do you tell someone they have their facts wrong?” You tell them a story with evidence and explain how the incorrect notion was born. Well done. Thank you for making me a little better informed!
Alan Alda has a podcast? Where has this been in my life?
Excellent treatise, Dr. Henry. Your evidence-based approach (for Christmas trees and all other topics) is much appreciated.
10:00 Germanic/Norse/Anglo-Saxons venerated oak trees, which are not evergreens (unless you count the Texas Live Oak, which didn't exist in Europe).
So did the slavs. Yews have some associations in Celtic circles at least.
Don't forget ashes.
Awesome video. I'm not Christian myself, but I always get so annoyed by the people that tout themselves as more "knowledgeable and fact based" than Christians, and then clearly just latch onto any idea of something Christian being pagan. It's so clearly not about trying to explain history, it's just about trying to have a "gotcha" on Christians
That’s Jesus Mythicists in a nutshell, as well.
Especially when most of the "historical" evidence they can provide is from more puritanical protestant Christians denouncing medieval extrabiblical practices as "pagan" because they weren't in the Bible
@@Jd-808 oh gosh Jesus mysticism is an especially strong pet peeve of mine
For me it's trying to connect to my ancestors that weren't Christian. Many beliefs and holidays do have connections to pagan beliefs but that also is covering a lot of different people when we say pagan. It's hard when so much Christian views are put up as most important in places like the US. I think it often comes from people wanting something else or to reconnect not trying to be "right" or better then Christians. Often the shame comes from Christians not pagans for most things.
The last part 🤢, they're tying to so hard to own christians and set themselves on more superior place.
Great video. Very informative. I would add that I watched a video by Professor Ronald Hutton recently about folk customs within christianised peoples. He has come to the conclusion that many folk customs are neither truly Christian or truly Pagan. They are their own thing and must be studied distinctly, on their own merit…
What I love here is just talking- no yelling or aggression. I miss polite conversation and hate the need to yell over people. He also does a great job research wise.
The amount of research that goes into any of your videos is something to admire, as always, what an excellent, interesting and informative video.
thank you for combating misinformation
My guess is that the whole Christmas tree tradition is an extension of the medieval practice of covering their floors with pine boughs and straw. This covering was a form of odor control and the coverings were often thrown out and replaced, almost like cleaning out a horse stable.
The vikings celebrated "Jul" which was the midwinter solstice and that name is still the Swedish word for "Christmas" to this day. The God Odin, big beardy guy, was said to travel around during that time of the year and he would occasionally visit random homes bringing gifts. The celebrations included the tradition of putting a small fir or pine tree, a branch basically, on the roof and this later morphed into putting a slightly bigger tree on the ground outside. I'm not sure if any decorations were included from the beginning but I know that later it was a common to use a spire as the top piece and not a star. I've heard that the spire was supposed to represent the tip of Odin's spear, which sounds plausible but I'm not sure of the veracity of such claims. In the 1700s we copied the Germans and started bringing the trees inside.
Satire @@SNixD
As a Christian, this video was so vindicating .
For years many of us have been trying to explain to the broader public that the Christmas tree (and the holiday in general) is not a Pagan innovation. (There’s a Christian UA-camr named Inspiring Philosophy that’s been explaining this for years).
I’m glad that this is being presented from an Academic perspective as well.
"Honey, why is there a...pine tree in our living room?"
"I LIKE IT! We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna decorate it...for Jesus!"
EDIT: I should note that this is from a Jim Gaffigan bit.
You *know* this is how it began 😅
After Hans arrived with a massive tree, following a long drinking binge 😅😅😅
It's beautifully symbolic in the Christian worldview, which is dendrocentric. They probably weren't totally consciously aware of that, but patterns play out subtly sometimes.
This sounds about right.
"Honey, why is there a tree in our house?"
"Well, Ulrike and Kai have a tree in their house and I didn't want to look silly!"
I have a theory about why they burned the yule log on Christmas.
Because it was cold!
Why not add a ChristmasForBreakfast playlist so all your Winter Solstice videos are in one place for easy, debunking reference?
Yes to this!
And an EasterForBreakfast playlist!
Just started the video! Can't wait. Surely I won't be spoiled by medieval forest management law
guys you won't believe it
The medieval forestry bit reminds me of the "Good King Wenceslaus" carol. The whole song is about St King Wenceslaus seeing a poor man gathering wood, presumably from the titular king's land. Of course, this king has his servant fetch meat and wine so they can go celebrate with the poor man, rather than punish him for breaking forestry laws.
Pretty ironic that the enemy of the Christmas tree was called Dannhauer, which very likely means "Tannenhauer", i.e. fir chopper.
very underrated comment. Nice observation!
It's really great that it was discovered that the Christmas tree was a tradition from Alsace! I actually live in Elsàss and we're also known for inventing the Christmas Market, so, if we also invented the tree in the first place, that makes our ethnic group, region and culture even cooler! Love to Elsàss!!! 🥨🇲🇨
Just out of curiosity… do you speak Elsässisch?
How is the state of ethnic Elsassians? Is the language still spoken? I've been to Strassbourg recently - two old bus drivers talked to each other in a mix of French and Elsassian, and spoke German fluently when asked for directions. The younger folks seemed to speak French exclusively. Is my observation correct? How is it on the countryside?
@@PeterSchmuttermaier I spent a few days in a very rural area in the north of Alsace and I was very surprised that basically everyone in the villages spoke German. Until then my experience was the same as yours with only a few people speaking German in Strasbourg. According to the people I talked to in the villages German is still widely spoken in the countryside, but the bigger cities are more francophone due to many people moving there from all over France. But it would be interesting to getgamermapper's opinion.
@@PeterSchmuttermaier French forced assimilation is almost complete, unfortunately. But Elsässisch still exists, it's much more active than for example Occitan, Gascon, Breton, etc. Ethnic Alsatians living in villages still often speak it.
The ressearch on the historical background is really interesting but it gets even better with the thorough debunk. Thanks very much for this video!
You joke about the medieval forestry law being "boring" but I once spent a few days doing a deep dive on Japanese historical silviculture and it was absolutely fascinating. Admitedly, it was VERY difficult to get anyone else interested in it when sharing what I found, but I appreciate it! People for some reason tend to assume regulated silviculture is a more recent invention than it is (At least here in the US. I am assuming those in the UK or elsewhere in western europe are probably a bit more aware due to their own deforestation issues).
I appreciate that the presenter doesn't just pretend that something is true, and accurately labels things as "educated guesses", so refreshing! Merry Christmas!
I find it amusing that so many people think seasons, climate, weather, and basic solar observations that have been noticed and celebrated since the early days of archeo-astronomy aren't universal.
Great video!
Honestly, when I was younger (queer neurodivergent teen going through religious trauma and general rough times) I did my part to spread the misinformation. Not consciously, mind you, but I definitely barely looked into it enough to confirm it. This was definitely made worse by the fact that my self-discovery led to me getting into modern witchcraft, which got me in a ton of trouble despite it doing wonders for the start of my healing (I still sometimes practice because the sweet sweet placebo helps tremendously--I struggle to believe religiously, but placebos have been the closest I've ever gotten since I was too small to think).
I try to be a lot more open about religion (specifically anything dealing with the Bible, since I've actually already always been fascinated by other religions and been mindful of respecting them), but it is hard when the types of Christians surrounding me are the loud hateful type. I've grown and learned enough that most Christians are not that, but when you live very rural the open-hearted and more accepting kind seem to be the exception. I still get unnaturally upset anytime I hear the "keep Christ in Christmas" line and am generally annoyed by how genuinely offended they get when I say "happy holidays" instead of "merry Christmas," as if me being more mindful of diverse beliefs and practices is terrible and that I should only be validating Christianity. Saying Christmas as we know it came from stolen (heavy word, I know now) pagan traditions was my little way of getting back at the extremists that traumatized me in the first place as a kid. But they're not the same people and lashing out will not give me closure for everything the adults surrounding me stole from me as a kid. I find myself incredibly jealous of people who have the capacity to believe, and that jealously certainly makes it worse.
I appreciate your channel and how you don't act like something is 100% certain when all we have is educated guesses. I appreciate your thorough research and ability to convey that information well. I appreciate how you cover things non-judgmentally. It's one of the things that helped me heal my personal religious trauma to a point where I don't lash out like I used to and respect Christians similarly to how I respect any other religion or practice for the most part (still though, only as far as each individual respects my existence--I won't suffer someone actively hateful). Keep up the good work!
Fatwood from pine sap is a great firestarter especially during the time of year when it may be colder and wetter. Gathering pine as it gets closer to Christmas makes sense if the people in the area were just trying to keep warm for the winter.
Thank you for bringing attention to the "conifer curious." I have been conifer curious most of my life and It was only until recently when i moved to the redwood forest of northern California that i discovered a growing community of the conifer curious. It has been a life changing experience to freely celebrate all thing coniferous. As this videos shows these traditions go back hundreds of years. If you yourself are conifer curious, just know that you are loved and not alone. ❤️🎄
Maybe there is no great symbolism behind the Christmas tree. Nothing wrong with liking something just because it’s pretty
There is though... It's from the rites of Attis, the savior -god, from Phrygia. The symbol of the Pine tree has more meaning then this video is implying and has many similarities with that of Christ.
@@ToxicAvengerCleanYourMindand your evidence is presented where?
@djcfrompt I already cited it...must of been deleted...It's in "The Secret Teachings of All Ages", authored by Manly Palmer Hall.
@@ToxicAvengerCleanYourMind a 100 year old self-published encyclopedia predating significant portions of modern scholarship? That does not seem like the most reliable or scholarly of sources.
@@djcfrompt And googling a book you've never read is some kind of achievement? I gave you your reference...seems like you just want to be stubborn and "be right", if you ask me...wasting time
I just have to say... the transition into the sponsor of the video was absolutely flawless.
I was always told that the bringing the Christmas Tree indoors was a coping mechanism, trying to bring a little Summer into the home during the Winter, and that it was in honor of the Holly King.
At this age where you don't know what to believe in regards to the origin of customs it is nice to see people at least debunking things that are obviously not true. It is honestly tiring to see people use pagan connections to diminish religions and especially Christianity with more and less accurate ways but it is nice that there are people like you that make accurate assessments in that regard. For me it wouldn't matter even if there were pagan connections but at the same time seeing how people are both inaccurate when they reference them and only do it to look down on the religion itself is honestly not that enjoyable. In any case, thank you for your work, the video was very well thought out.
Glad to secular scholar debunk the pagan-nonsense
Just found your channel and Im hooked. Great videos! Also ty for citing your sources it makes for fun afterread.
There are more than one kind of “Christmas tree” two that offer support for the information presented are one from France and one from Friesland. The one from France is a three shelve arrangement with evergreen branches tied to the frame. The use for this is the shelves are for Christmas presents (apples and cookies). The one from Friesland is a lyre shaped frame with three cross pieces. Evergreen branches are attached to the outside of the frame and the cross pieces are used to support cookies depicting the paradise play with one cookie having the figures of Adam, Eve, the serpent and the paradise tree on it. These are still in use. In addition to the evergreen branches both designs are lit by candles. Last time I checked both designs are commercially available
Freisland Joolboom (Yule Tree) See de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6%C3%B6lboom
What a great comment, thank you!
I guess the Christmas Pyramid can be added as an animated version of the traditional tapered Christmas shelf.
This is fantastic. Now I have another rabbit hole to go down. 😊
Christmas tree (fer.: kenkenbuum; frasch: jülbuum; sölr.: Jöölboom; again: jülebuum
I think it’s important to note that the Christmas tree at least through the imagery of the paradise tree is linked to fertility. Hence the apples and Adam, Eve and the serpent. Images still often found on the Joolbuum include farm animals, fish and the sort of long boats that could be confused with Viking longboats. So for the joolbuum on it’s path to becoming a Christmas tree one can easily image something some pagan thing in line with the old Norse religion where sacrifices are hung on trees being transformed into the Paradise Play with Adam and Eve then to the New Testament nativity.
I don’t think the poor farmers and fishermen of Friesland kept those records so all we have now to connect the Christmas tree to some non-Christian practice is fantasy, speculation and confabulation
However the horse hung on the Joolbuum does so seem in line with the Old Norse religion
amazing work, wonderful knoweldge and so shareable with others! Merry Christmas and all the other Holy Days in this season!
Love this channel. Thank you for your commitment to the evidence and truth of history.
Speaking of Christmas, I just bought a Ground News subscription for someone who’s really hard to shop for, because I trust you won’t accept sponsorships you don’t believe in. So, thanks!
Evergreen trees also have a distinctly strong fragrance; do you thing maybe they brought their boughs and branches inside to defeat the odors that would accumulate during the winter months, when lots of people were staying in their homes?
I know, it's kind of ridiculous, lol.
It has much more sense than looking for any ideology in Christmas tree which is simple decoration.
A question occurred to me based on the timing of when people were allowed to gather trees & wood. With some of the worst winter weather coming after the new year, wouldn't it also be safe to assume people were trying to load up on firewood for the long, cold winter season still ahead of them?
That summarises most Christmas traditions. Save stuff for winter, here I gift you a warm jumper, burn last year's Christmas tree for warmth, meet friends and family before you die of cold, put some lights up coz it's dark outside, etc. Your question is chicken and egg for me. In my opinion, classic Christmas traditions are inseparable from deep winters.
Source: even the Christmas roast is a nightmare in my country because it's so hot.
Christmas is endlessly fascinating as it has rock layers of tradition from many different time periods.
You mention that this could be something taking place in the 13th century. What about Brumalia? Cato mentions that they cut down trees for the Brumalia on the Winter Solstice, and Christopher of Mytilene says they were still celebrating Bruamalia into the 11th century. Possibly ending after the sack of Constantinople. "Oak wood and also wood for vine props, is always ripe for cutting at the time of the winter solstice. Other species which bear seed are ripe when the seeds are mature, while those which are seedless are ripe when they shed bark." - Cato the Elder, Agricultura 17.1 (200 BCE)
Like he said, similar practices have developed independently from one another across cultures worldwide.
Really excellent and accessible tour of the evidence and scholarship around the start of Christmas tree customs. Thank you!
Maybe they just thought a decorated tree was pretty, or they got the tree, told the forest owners the tree was gotten for religious reasons, then they burned it as firewood after Christmas.
What if they thought a decorated tree was pretty? What would change?
As a neopagan I find this fascinating. I think so many people think bringing a tree into your house sounds pagan, therefore it must be pagan. I find this information to be so much more interesting. The only thing I will point out is the Celts and others weren’t very literate and most didn’t write things down. However, I have no interest perpetuating anything that smacks of nationalism and all the things that came from it. I really appreciate getting good academic information to bust myths that people in my own circles perpetuate. Plus the real history is just as interesting to me as what has been made up. Thank you for doing the good work!
I think many people think it’s pagan because it definitely does have those origins. Especially if they noted it in the Old Testament. See (Jeremiah 10:1-8) But I don’t care either way
@@reportedstolen3603 Did you actually read the Bible verse that you quoted? It has nothing to do with Christmas trees.
@@perceivedvelocity9914 which translation are u using ?
@@reportedstolen3603 Word association games are not evidence of liner progression
While yes, the Celts and many others) didn't write things down, that doesn't really affect this video too much. By the time we get the first "modern" Christmas trees, Celtic religion was dead for centuries. If there were Celtic traditions that were similar, they didn't survive, as far as we can tell.
In the memories of Armenians from my region, Amasya in Turkey, I had read something. Either in Easter or in a carnivale in autumn, Armenians were gathering willow poles, and decorating it with flowers. Zarzalak( or something similar) was the name of the tree. I forgot the other traditions for the festival but they were decorating churches with flower trees and I believe they were doing kind of masque proom kind of theatral celebrations.
Well, I'm sure its origins are not the way Kirk Cameron said it was😂
🤣🤣🤣 !! You just made my day.
As if he’d care to dive into that himself
5:23 Wow, crazy to think that there were people complaining about "cancelling Christmas" all the way back in the 1500s
The other Christmas time tree ritual is wassailing from England, which still has a subtle presence in rural areas.
Apparently the word wassail is borrowed from old Norse.
And “wassailing” as a verb was introduced in that context by Shakespeare.
thank you thank you thank you for all the work you put into these videos and cite the sources you use.
I have watched SO MANY videos on the "history of christmas" this year and this has been the best by far because I can truly say I trust the source
You should also take a look at the Orthodox Eastern Roman Empire precursor to Christmas trees.
Paul, the Silentiary (c. 563) in his Ekphrasis of Hagia Sophia in Constantinople, describes in detail the lights of the icon screen and the pulpit of the Great Church. On the architrave of the icon screen there were metal cone shaped trees, like a pine tree or a cypress of tender foliage, where instead of fruits they had conical shaped lights, and it even records that illuminated crafted trees were throughout the church.
“There is also on the silver columns above their capitals, a path full of light, glittering with bright clusters; these one might compare to the mountain-reared pine tree or to the cypress of tender foliage. Pointed at the summit, they are ringed by circles that gradually widen down to the lowest curve that surrounds the base of the trunk; and upon them have grown fiery flowers. Instead of a root, bows of silver have been affixed beneath these trees of flaming vegetation. And in the center of this beauteous grove, the form of the divine cross, studded with bright nails, blazes with light for mortal eyes…
Late professor of Byzantine Archaeology at Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Constantine Kalokyris, titled Sacred Trees and the Eastern Origin of the Christmas Tree.
But none of those influenced the Western Christmas tree tradition. There was little to no cultural transmission between Eastern Orthodox and Western Catholics. Only at the most elite level was there even dialogue.
This sounds cool as hell, we should bring back this look 😍
That's just describing the shape of a conical candelabra in a poetic way.
Its a pagan custom.
Jeremiah 10:2-4 Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest,The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers, So that it will not topple.
@@dexyangaryputin Keep reading. What is being described is a carved IDOL. Christmas trees had no "silver" or "gold" until 20th c tinsel
As a pagan who raised by weird american protestants that considered whatever practices christians that aren't americans have to be """pagan""" and literally became missionaries to convert mexican and filipino christians to the american way of jesus, there's always something about seeing other pagans parrot the idea that any christianity that's weird is totally super pagan that always gets an ire out of me. Yeah sure there are some cases of pre christian religion influencing christian practices, just like there always is when two cultures are syncretized together. But not everything christians do that's weird is pagan in origin, christians are more than capable of inventing weird folky stuff themselves and saying anything in christianity that's weird is pagan is literally puritan propaganda. It's absurd.
Wasted all my time delving into bird law for nothing 😔
Absolutely fantastic insight! This was the level of detail of the origin and the myth that i was looking for.
Now I really want "conifer curious" merch please and thank you
Also did anyone else grow up Lutheran and hear the story that Martin Luther "invented" the Xmas tree after he was in the Black Forest at night and as he looked up to the heavens through the branches of the evergreens, he could see the stars; thus candles or lights on Xmas trees? No idea where this came from but was oft repeated.
Keep up the exceptional work, Dr Henry 👏
We dont have pines in the tropics, so we do decorate coconut trees🌴🎅 😊 to celebrate christmas
Adding this to my religious misconceptions playlist
Maybe a relevant data point on the supposed association between sacred trees and Christmas trees:
Norwegians kept a form of sacred tree traditions alive into the 20th century - the tuntre and offertre (yard trees and sacrifice trees). These rare rural customs are not commonly associated with Christmas trees - which is a more middle class or bourgeois tradition imported from Denmark and Germany - for multiple reasons; the obvious one is the class thing - one was cast as the ridiculous superstitions of the credulous peasantry, the other as a decorative centerpiece and focus for fun and games at Christmas parties.
Then there's the cultural tendency to place hardwoods and evergreens in different categories; a yard tree is a symbol of permanence, a connection to the spirit of the farm's founder and mirror of the fortune of the farm and extended family; damaging one used to be unthinkable - if even a branch falls, it's an omen of death. Sacrifice trees are ancient, often growing on or near burial mounds; some of these may have been coppiced to grow into odd shapes, but never cut down, at least until the modernisation and intensified campaigning against superstition of the last half of the 19th century.
If anything, Christmas trees are the opposite - they start their careers by being cut down, are used as decoration for a short time, and then unceremoniously discarded. Come to think of it, maybe that's a connection - a sort of anti-sacred tree?
I love that Freiburg is such a big part of this history. Their Christmas market is such a wonderful thing!
Honestly shocked that I haven't heard people say Christmas trees are disguised Asherah poles.
Seriously, I actually had the same thought cross my mind...we shouldn't give them any ideas!! 😂
Shhh, they can hear you 😂😂😂
@@cmschmidt though then they'd have to draw attention to Asherah and who she's thought to be in relation to Yahweh.
Don’t worry, THAT guy showed up quoting Jeremiah out of context since then.
Oh no, now the AI voiced TikTok morons will get right on it.
I would like to thank you for the excellent pronunciation of both names and places. Greetings from Baden!
Woah. Great explanation of and then transition to ideological biases. I genuinely feel like this is NOT talked about enough bc im constantly surprised by how often things that seem setbin stone get corrected to end up being just some version told by geoups with an agenda
Not many people know that there are part of the pines that are eatable and have medicinal benefits. You can make tea with the pine needles. It’s interesting research.
Id read about late medieval guild sponsored tree decorations before and wondered if there could be a connection. It seems like decorating a christmas tree started out as a status symbol (a whole decorated tree in your house? How fancy!) and from then on it just didnt feel right NOT to have a christmas tree.
As for mid-winter decor with (potential) pre-christian origins, I offer up himmeli/yulkrone. Though its tough to say if those are a pagan holdover or a catholic one. I think they're very pretty, myself.
The thing is it doesn’t even matter whether the origins of the Christmas tree are from Christian or non-Christian societies - it’s an amalgamation of all the above and in its current form it is newer in practice than people think. It’s a social custom, not a religious practice. They can and always have coexisted. It brings happiness (at least in theory) at a time of the year when nights are cold and long, and everyone is cooped up indoors (if you are in the northern hemisphere).
To add - I am not criticizing the video or this channel - I find it fascinating. I am more talking to anyone getting defensive about the topic one way or another.
Hislop's "The Two Babylons" from the mid-1850s was inflluentual despite its lack of historicity and linguistics.
You've changed my perception of the origins of Christmas and Christmas trees.
"Conifer curious" - Love it!
My thoughts exactly 😂
I'd rather be deciduous decided.
Makes sense as for cutting more trees down in the winter. If it's anything like where I live the days get shorter and it is obviously colder so you would need more wood for heat and light. Not to mention for cooking during festival times. Also, a lit tree would provide more light to a room than a fireplace and separated placement of candles. Especially if the room was a larger hall. It could had started as having no meaning except as a practical solution for illuminating a space that looks pretty. And much like a big fireplace or table, something for people to gather around in the darkness.
Interesting video!!🙂 in the Scandinavian countrys Denmark, Norway and Sweden, Christmas is called “”Jul” (Yule) in our languages!🙂 so there must have been a Yule festival pre Christianity. I have always learned that when christianity was introduced, they took the old costumes, festivals and names and put them unto the new so it seemed more familieour to people and they could get used to it like for example Christmas, The Birth of Jesus was put where the old Yule festivals where before🙂 and Christmas is still called Jul i our country’s to this day🤗
That is accurate, yes.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the podłaźniczka, which are conifer branches used in Poland as decoration around Christmas. They're often made either into a hanging wreath or into a little upside down hanging tree. The description of the Rhine tradition makes me think of that and so I wonder whether or not there might be some kind of connection or if two regions just independently came up with the same idea since conifers are readily available in those regions to use as decorations anyway.
Great presentation of the scholarship on this topic! I’ve also read somewhere that the prototypical ornament, the red ball, is a natural development from the apples that were used as a proxy for the paradise fruit in the plays (a necessary feature of the play because the serpent needs to tempt Eve). Of course this would be just a guess without explicit evidence, but it seems like a coherent possibility that adds to the explanatory power of the eden plays being associated with the origin of the practice. Do you have any thoughts on this?
As a Scandinavian this raises some questions for me as the christmas three is heavily associated with the tradition of circle dancing, arguably of pagan origin. The dancing is performed while singing songs, some with seemingly pre christian themes. The question is did scandinavians perform circle dances on christmas before they adopted the christmas three, and if so what did they dance around, if anything.
Thank you for the information. I found the predecessor of the Christmas tree being the May Pole interesting. Especially since the May Pole is a fallic symbol and the dance around it is to encourage fertility.
Please can you do something on the axial age?! It’s one of the most interesting concepts in history that I’ve come across
Thank you for this. I did not believe this misconception but it was my general impression
Thank you for your insights.
In short, we have no idea how the christmas tree tradition started.
The rites of Attis. 1250 BCE
I did it, it was me. I started it.