Nice, you explained the concept of under/overexposing by x "stops" very clearly. I figured it would be possible to under/overexpose with both your ISO setting and your shutter speed but I couldn't find anyone who explained how they relate to each other. You did. Thanks!
Now I am realizing that this subject is for people who use fully manual film cameras and not people like me who use Canons' EOS SLR cameras. Thank you so much for explaining this.
Hey that’s not true at all! I have a few of Canons SLR film cameras and overexpose/push or pull film. You can override the DX code reading on your camera
Awesome vid man. This topic is super confusing for newbie film shooters such as myself and I’m surprised it’s not discussed more. One mis-conception I had was that once you rate your film speed you can’t change it while still shooting the same roll. Now I see that isn’t necessarily true. One lingering questions I have: even if I shoot at box speed, can I still tell the happy photo guy to push or pull to get the visual effects of those development processes? Or does push/pull only work when combined with over/under exposure?
Henry Danner Thanks a lot! I completely understand the confusion because it took me forever to full understand it all haha. But in terms of pushing/pulling with no over/under exposure, you can ask them to do it but your results aren’t going to be very good. Basically what is happening is say that you underexpose 400 film at 1600. The negative is going to be lighter (because it’s reversed negative vs positive). If you have the lab push that film, they’re leaving it in the chemicals longer which in turn darkens the negative to where it’s supposed to be for 1600 film in return “correcting” what you did in camera (it also adds the effects people are looking for because the film isn’t supposed to be shot at that iso). So technically yes, you can have the lab push/pull box speed film but all it’s going to do is extremely darken or lighten your image. You won’t get any cool colors or anything. I hope that makes sense. It does in my head but I know it can sound like jumble when I let it leave my head haha
Gbonii thanks for the reply. Definitely makes sense to me based of your through explanation. Once I learn to develop film it will probably be even more clear. Thanks verbal this video really helped me understand the whole concept of “rating” , “pushing” and “pulling”
I do understand the difference in telling or not telling the lab (to push or pull the film in the development). But I don't think I fully understand when one would want to do the one or the other. I'm also curious about what would be the difference between over- or underexposing with ISO-setting versus just setting ±1 stop in aperture priority?
Honestly this video was much more informative then any other video I could find on the topic! One question I did have is that why would you want to push and pull vs just under or over-exposing your shot? Most developers I've seen charge extra to push/pull and some I've seen don't even provide that. Why would you want to push/pull if you could just over/under-expose? Thanks!
Thank you so much! I’m glad it could help. Most developers will charge extra because they have to do your roll separate since it’ll be in the chemicals for a different amount of time. But people pull/push (mostly push) their film because it “properly exposes” it. So if you shot a roll of 800 at 1600; underexposing it would make it super dark and muddy where as pushing it will give you a more correct exposure. I hope that makes sense, I’m trying to make it to the point and not ramble on haha
Thank you! I appreciate it. And for color negative film I usually expose for the shadows. Film is opposite of digital where instead of retaining info in the shadows, it retains info in the highlights. It’s never a bad idea to overexpose negative film when shooting, you can do like 5 stops overexposed and still have a usable image
Finally! Best explanation ever I've been find. Thank you much. One question: can I do under/over exposure with b&w film in that same way like with colour? I mean shooting on different speed on one roll and developing normally.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate that, I'm glad I can help. As for B&W, you can over/underexpose it but it just wont hold up as well as C41 color film so I wouldn't push it too far. 1-2 stops over or underexposed shouldn't give you any problems. I would say though that if you want to experiment with B&W film, try pushing HP5 or Tri-X to 1600. I always push those film stocks because it gives such a cool contrasty look.
So I was looking at a kodak data sheet because I thought about night shooting some metro stations on proimage 100 underexposed by 1 stop (so rating it at 200 ISO and get it developed at 100) and I was looking for some information on that filmstock. However, the data sheet has a table for exposure adjustments when photographing in artificil lights wich says for example „+1 stop“. Now, does that mean under- or overexpose by one stop? If +1 stop means „overexpose by one stop“, I‘d have to rate at 100 ISO box speed to get the look that I want. Happy about any answers! Thanks for the good video btw.
A great misunderstanding being promoted by "experts" is that you can "push" process film and effectively change the ASA of the film. No, you cannot. You can underexpose your film and then extend your processing time. However the net result of that will be that you will have less detail in the shadow areas of the film - always, if you do that. Film speed is set by the manufacturer based the first apparent exposure above base fog. That is set when the film is manufactured, and BTW with black and white film the actual sensitivity of film to light is often about half the so called box speed. We use film processing times to increase, or decrease, the contrast of the negative in black and white film photography. Some films are more amenable to adjusted processing times than others. Color film contrast can be increased by increasing its exposure, to a degree. But there is a point with color film where there is color crossover due to an increased development time and accurate color balance will not be possible. Chrome film can be manipulated more on the highlight end by abbreviating the development and shadows made to carry more detail by manipulating the processing time. So actual "pushing" and "pulling" are misnomers. Laws of physics, chemistry and optics cannot be changed because we might want them to be. True enough, you can change ASA mid-roll if you want, but image quality will always suffer.
Cool! Thanks for sharing. So : pushing and pulling is actually the chemical processing of the film for a different ISO than box speed not to be mixed up with under/over exposing film! For B&W it seems clear cut: under expose and shoot a 400 at a faster speed/higher ISO. Quick question though: say I have a 400 film and I shoot 1 roll at 100 and another at 800: what is the expected impact on the image when the roll is processed say: 400 roll shot at 100, processed at 100 or 400 and 400 roll shot at 800 and processed at 400 or 800. Thank you!
To my understanding; there's no particular and distinct "effect" necessarily that is created if you shot a whole roll and push/pull in the lab as opposed to individually over or under exposing each image?
Hey man thank you for the video! But I still didn‘t quite get the reason why people choose to overexpose instead of pushing the film or vice versa. If I got that right, the outcome is more or less the same, but having more contrast and grain when pushing it. Any additions to that? Would be greatful, can‘t find it anywhere :-/
Great vid mate I’m shooting ektar 100 on my Bronica loving the results I like to overexpose by a stop Ektar is a cracking film. Happy to sub and support a fellow creator 😆📷
That hair in the top right of the top-down sharpie shot just literally made me blow on my screen to get it off 🤦 Otherwise, excellent vid, going to develop some fuji pro 400H which i accidentally exposed at asa 100 (never forget to check your settings on your light meter, kids. It saves your pics) and currently doing some research to see if i actually need to pull it or just leave it at normal development since 400H seems to only get a slight bit colder when overexposed up to 3 stops.
Thanks! Can I push my film while also underexposing some shots? So lets say i shoot a role of Portra 800 and i want to push it by 2 stops to 3200. can i meter for 1600 and tell the developer to develope for 3200? So that i will have the benefits of pushing while underexposing so i can get more details in the shadows?
Whichever one you use to meter for your photos. Your film can’t change iso, it’s stuck at what is us. When you change your iso in camera (or in the light meter), you’re just tricking the camera into thinking you’re shooting a different iso film. You can change both if you use both to read the light!
What is the difference in the outcome of pushing a film and overexposing by halving the ISO?? I‘m watching like the 5th video and noone answers that :(
HI! If i got iso 400 35mm film and set the iso to 200 on the camera, should i then read with the lightmeeter, settings for iso 200 or 400? Thanks for your clarifying some of al the unknown parts yet!
If your camera has a lightmeter and you set it to 200, it’ll read the light as if it’s 200iso film. If you’re trying to pull or overexpose then that’s what you want
Really just because of artistic approach/limitations. Over/underexposing will give very different results compared to push/pulling. A big scenario is; you really want to do a color photoshoot in a very low light area. They dont make 1600/3200 color film anymore so you use 800. You can either underexpose that film and get muddy shadows and lots of grain OR you could push that film 1600/3200 and get "properly" exposed photos with color shifts
If you told the lab guy to develop Portra 400 at 200 - wouldn't that be under-exposing, or pulling the film? Therefore, if you delibertely tried to over-expose by setting it at 200, and told the lab guy to develop at 200, it would cancel out your adjustment - and just come out as if you shot at 400???
Not exactly. All c41 film is developed at the same time/temp no matter what the iso is. Changing the time/temp is what pulls or pushes the film. That’s why chemicals decide push/pull and settings decide over/underexposure. Shooting Portra 400 at 200 and having them dev normal would be overexposing but if you shot it at 200 and told them to pull it 1 stop then it would be pulling the film. They will leave it in the chemicals for less time than normal c41 developing
I think what you said at 12:20, "push your roll of 400 to 200", is wrong. Isn't it: 'push up - and pull down'? Delevoping 400 at 200 would under-expose the film, wouldn't it??? Even though shooting 400 at 200 would OVER-expose the film? I'm only just learning this stuff myself - wish somebody would clarify...
Exposure and processing have completely different functions, and I referring only to black and white film. In black and white film the amount of detail that is carried in the shadow areas is determined by exposure only. You cannot add significant detail to the shadows by increasing development by any reasonable amount. Shadow detail is determined exclusively by exposure. In development the shadow portions of the negative develop completely fairly early in the development part. Maybe in the first three or four minutes if you have a seven minutes or so development time - which is a fairly common time. (For instance when I was using Tri-X my base development time was 7 minutes at 70 degrees f.) The highlight areas will continue to build density as long as they are in contact with an active developer solution until all the exposed silver in those areas is converted from silver halide crystals to metallic silver. Once that is done the film will not gain density since all the silver has been converted - which by the way will render negatives that are bullet proof. So we control shadow density, or detail, by exposure and we control image contrast by film development times. That's why, if you look at the film data sheets it usually says "suggested times". Time and experience will show you that most black and white films are rated at a very optimistic ASA. There are some very technical reasons why these things are the way they are. The best advice is to do a little experimentation. If you are processing the film yourself just be sure to always do everything the same way. If you have the film run commercially get to know the people at your lab and always use the same lab. Consistency is the key to getting better negatives.
FINALLY someone managed to explain this in a way a I can understand. Thank you & subscribed.
Thank you so much! I’m glad I was able to help
I love it how he explains it so slowly like we are idiots.
Btw, great vid!
I finally understand
His the only UA-cam that explained this topic properly
best explanation so far!! answered all my questions from previous videos and articles I've read. thank you so much for this!
no problem! im glad I could help
Here from Reddit!👀 awesome rundown!
Excellent breakdown and explanation once I got past the "over-exposed bush" double entendre… LOL
Nice, you explained the concept of under/overexposing by x "stops" very clearly. I figured it would be possible to under/overexpose with both your ISO setting and your shutter speed but I couldn't find anyone who explained how they relate to each other. You did. Thanks!
Best explanation on UA-cam. Thanks! I finally got it .
Now I am realizing that this subject is for people who use fully manual film cameras and not people like me who use Canons' EOS SLR cameras. Thank you so much for explaining this.
Hey that’s not true at all! I have a few of Canons SLR film cameras and overexpose/push or pull film. You can override the DX code reading on your camera
@@gbonii5673 yes I know you can, but you were showing this for cinema not static photography.
@@SterlingSigurdsen this is used for static photography. I’ve never done cinematography
Awesome vid man. This topic is super confusing for newbie film shooters such as myself and I’m surprised it’s not discussed more. One mis-conception I had was that once you rate your film speed you can’t change it while still shooting the same roll. Now I see that isn’t necessarily true. One lingering questions I have: even if I shoot at box speed, can I still tell the happy photo guy to push or pull to get the visual effects of those development processes? Or does push/pull only work when combined with over/under exposure?
Henry Danner Thanks a lot! I completely understand the confusion because it took me forever to full understand it all haha. But in terms of pushing/pulling with no over/under exposure, you can ask them to do it but your results aren’t going to be very good. Basically what is happening is say that you underexpose 400 film at 1600. The negative is going to be lighter (because it’s reversed negative vs positive). If you have the lab push that film, they’re leaving it in the chemicals longer which in turn darkens the negative to where it’s supposed to be for 1600 film in return “correcting” what you did in camera (it also adds the effects people are looking for because the film isn’t supposed to be shot at that iso). So technically yes, you can have the lab push/pull box speed film but all it’s going to do is extremely darken or lighten your image. You won’t get any cool colors or anything. I hope that makes sense. It does in my head but I know it can sound like jumble when I let it leave my head haha
Gbonii thanks for the reply. Definitely makes sense to me based of your through explanation. Once I learn to develop film it will probably be even more clear. Thanks verbal this video really helped me understand the whole concept of “rating” , “pushing” and “pulling”
This stuff sounds complicated. Honestly I would rather pay you to take pictures of my bush. Production value of this vid was easily 10/10. Well done.
FINALLY! Someone who can explain this!
I do understand the difference in telling or not telling the lab (to push or pull the film in the development). But I don't think I fully understand when one would want to do the one or the other. I'm also curious about what would be the difference between over- or underexposing with ISO-setting versus just setting ±1 stop in aperture priority?
There is no difference in that. You can set your meter to +1stop and it will do the exact same
Honestly this video was much more informative then any other video I could find on the topic! One question I did have is that why would you want to push and pull vs just under or over-exposing your shot? Most developers I've seen charge extra to push/pull and some I've seen don't even provide that. Why would you want to push/pull if you could just over/under-expose? Thanks!
Thank you so much! I’m glad it could help. Most developers will charge extra because they have to do your roll separate since it’ll be in the chemicals for a different amount of time. But people pull/push (mostly push) their film because it “properly exposes” it. So if you shot a roll of 800 at 1600; underexposing it would make it super dark and muddy where as pushing it will give you a more correct exposure. I hope that makes sense, I’m trying to make it to the point and not ramble on haha
Really helpful thanks, better than any other explanation :)
This is gold
This is all I ever needed. Fantastic
Nice Explanation👍
"Look at that beautiful bush" well said my dude
great information
Thanks for simplifying this!
THANK YOU FIRST VIDEO I UNDERSTAND
Thank you so much.
You are the best!!! Thx a lot ❤
Best explanation I’ve seen
Great explanation man, helped me so much! Thanks a lot!
Thanks for clarifying! You made it all so simple lol. Question tho, do you prefer to meter for the shadows or highlights?
Thank you! I appreciate it. And for color negative film I usually expose for the shadows. Film is opposite of digital where instead of retaining info in the shadows, it retains info in the highlights. It’s never a bad idea to overexpose negative film when shooting, you can do like 5 stops overexposed and still have a usable image
How would the result chsnge between over/under exposing and then box developing, vs over/under exposing w/ pulling/pushing respectfully?
Thanks, I finally get it!
Finally! Best explanation ever I've been find. Thank you much. One question: can I do under/over exposure with b&w film in that same way like with colour? I mean shooting on different speed on one roll and developing normally.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate that, I'm glad I can help. As for B&W, you can over/underexpose it but it just wont hold up as well as C41 color film so I wouldn't push it too far. 1-2 stops over or underexposed shouldn't give you any problems. I would say though that if you want to experiment with B&W film, try pushing HP5 or Tri-X to 1600. I always push those film stocks because it gives such a cool contrasty look.
@@gbonii5673 when pushing to 1600 do I set my iso on my camera to 1600 as well?
@@jhpeso yup! Meter for 1600 iso and make sure your lab knows to push it to 1600. If they don’t, your photos will just come out very underexposed
I know I'm late but when shooting in black and white, do the same concepts for under and overexposing apply?
Thank you sir! Finally i understand after 5 videos 🤣
So I was looking at a kodak data sheet because I thought about night shooting some metro stations on proimage 100 underexposed by 1 stop (so rating it at 200 ISO and get it developed at 100) and I was looking for some information on that filmstock. However, the data sheet has a table for exposure adjustments when photographing in artificil lights wich says for example „+1 stop“. Now, does that mean under- or overexpose by one stop?
If +1 stop means „overexpose by one stop“, I‘d have to rate at 100 ISO box speed to get the look that I want.
Happy about any answers! Thanks for the good video btw.
A great misunderstanding being promoted by "experts" is that you can "push" process film and effectively change the ASA of the film. No, you cannot. You can underexpose your film and then extend your processing time. However the net result of that will be that you will have less detail in the shadow areas of the film - always, if you do that. Film speed is set by the manufacturer based the first apparent exposure above base fog. That is set when the film is manufactured, and BTW with black and white film the actual sensitivity of film to light is often about half the so called box speed. We use film processing times to increase, or decrease, the contrast of the negative in black and white film photography. Some films are more amenable to adjusted processing times than others. Color film contrast can be increased by increasing its exposure, to a degree. But there is a point with color film where there is color crossover due to an increased development time and accurate color balance will not be possible. Chrome film can be manipulated more on the highlight end by abbreviating the development and shadows made to carry more detail by manipulating the processing time. So actual "pushing" and "pulling" are misnomers. Laws of physics, chemistry and optics cannot be changed because we might want them to be. True enough, you can change ASA mid-roll if you want, but image quality will always suffer.
Cool! Thanks for sharing. So : pushing and pulling is actually the chemical processing of the film for a different ISO than box speed not to be mixed up with under/over exposing film! For B&W it seems clear cut: under expose and shoot a 400 at a faster speed/higher ISO.
Quick question though: say I have a 400 film and I shoot 1 roll at 100 and another at 800: what is the expected impact on the image when the roll is processed say: 400 roll shot at 100, processed at 100 or 400 and 400 roll shot at 800 and processed at 400 or 800. Thank you!
To my understanding; there's no particular and distinct "effect" necessarily that is created if you shot a whole roll and push/pull in the lab as opposed to individually over or under exposing each image?
Awesome explanation!✨ What kind of macro lens do you use in your scans?
Thank you! I’m glad I could help. I use the RF 35mm 1.8 with an extension tube that I got off Amazon
Thank you, it's really helpful !
So instead of choosing to under or over expose you just make it the labs problem instead of just going a +- a stop?
Hey man thank you for the video! But I still didn‘t quite get the reason why people choose to overexpose instead of pushing the film or vice versa. If I got that right, the outcome is more or less the same, but having more contrast and grain when pushing it. Any additions to that? Would be greatful, can‘t find it anywhere :-/
Any answer to this? Noone?
Great vid mate I’m shooting ektar 100 on my Bronica loving the results I like to overexpose by a stop Ektar is a cracking film. Happy to sub and support a fellow creator 😆📷
That hair in the top right of the top-down sharpie shot just literally made me blow on my screen to get it off 🤦 Otherwise, excellent vid, going to develop some fuji pro 400H which i accidentally exposed at asa 100 (never forget to check your settings on your light meter, kids. It saves your pics) and currently doing some research to see if i actually need to pull it or just leave it at normal development since 400H seems to only get a slight bit colder when overexposed up to 3 stops.
Thanks! Can I push my film while also underexposing some shots? So lets say i shoot a role of Portra 800 and i want to push it by 2 stops to 3200. can i meter for 1600 and tell the developer to develope for 3200? So that i will have the benefits of pushing while underexposing so i can get more details in the shadows?
Good
Should change the iso number of the film porta 400 to 200 in my camera or the light meter device? Or both?
Whichever one you use to meter for your photos. Your film can’t change iso, it’s stuck at what is us. When you change your iso in camera (or in the light meter), you’re just tricking the camera into thinking you’re shooting a different iso film. You can change both if you use both to read the light!
@@gbonii5673 thank you very much brother, finally someone who explained the right way, really appreciate it.
Was always told to overexpose film by 1 stop.
told
What is the difference in the outcome of pushing a film and overexposing by halving the ISO?? I‘m watching like the 5th video and noone answers that :(
The effect will be the same.
What’s the difference between this technique and just shooting on AV and using exposure compensation?
It’s basically the same thing, most older film cameras just don’t have exposure comp but if yours does then you can definitely just use that!
Awesome, thanks for the feedback man. Looks like over exposing by a stop with that will be cheaper too as my lab charges extra to pull.
If you push a 400 film at 1600 you only double the amount of time ? I thought that youd have to double the time each stop. Did I miss something?
HI!
If i got iso 400 35mm film and set the iso to 200 on the camera, should i then read with the lightmeeter, settings for iso 200 or 400? Thanks for your clarifying some of al the unknown parts yet!
If your camera has a lightmeter and you set it to 200, it’ll read the light as if it’s 200iso film. If you’re trying to pull or overexpose then that’s what you want
Thanksssss
Where is chef John?
my camera only except iso 100 and 400 and im using a 200 film inside my camera.do i use 100 or 400 iso?
What camera is it? I’m interested as to what camera only takes those 2. But I would set it to 100, always best to overexpose color negatives
@@gbonii5673 it’s a konica c35 ef p!! thank u for sharing this,it’s really helpful to me
Why would people pay extra to push/pull at a lab when under or overexposing is free?,
Really just because of artistic approach/limitations. Over/underexposing will give very different results compared to push/pulling. A big scenario is; you really want to do a color photoshoot in a very low light area. They dont make 1600/3200 color film anymore so you use 800. You can either underexpose that film and get muddy shadows and lots of grain OR you could push that film 1600/3200 and get "properly" exposed photos with color shifts
If you told the lab guy to develop Portra 400 at 200 - wouldn't that be under-exposing, or pulling the film? Therefore, if you delibertely tried to over-expose by setting it at 200, and told the lab guy to develop at 200, it would cancel out your adjustment - and just come out as if you shot at 400???
Not exactly. All c41 film is developed at the same time/temp no matter what the iso is. Changing the time/temp is what pulls or pushes the film. That’s why chemicals decide push/pull and settings decide over/underexposure.
Shooting Portra 400 at 200 and having them dev normal would be overexposing but if you shot it at 200 and told them to pull it 1 stop then it would be pulling the film. They will leave it in the chemicals for less time than normal c41 developing
Pulling 400 1 stop would be shooting it as 200. Pulling it two stops would be like shooting with iso 100. Pushing 1 stop would be 800, 2 stops 1600
I think what you said at 12:20, "push your roll of 400 to 200", is wrong. Isn't it: 'push up - and pull down'? Delevoping 400 at 200 would under-expose the film, wouldn't it??? Even though shooting 400 at 200 would OVER-expose the film?
I'm only just learning this stuff myself - wish somebody would clarify...
Exposure and processing have completely different functions, and I referring only to black and white film. In black and white film the amount of detail that is carried in the shadow areas is determined by exposure only. You cannot add significant detail to the shadows by increasing development by any reasonable amount. Shadow detail is determined exclusively by exposure. In development the shadow portions of the negative develop completely fairly early in the development part. Maybe in the first three or four minutes if you have a seven minutes or so development time - which is a fairly common time. (For instance when I was using Tri-X my base development time was 7 minutes at 70 degrees f.) The highlight areas will continue to build density as long as they are in contact with an active developer solution until all the exposed silver in those areas is converted from silver halide crystals to metallic silver. Once that is done the film will not gain density since all the silver has been converted - which by the way will render negatives that are bullet proof. So we control shadow density, or detail, by exposure and we control image contrast by film development times. That's why, if you look at the film data sheets it usually says "suggested times". Time and experience will show you that most black and white films are rated at a very optimistic ASA. There are some very technical reasons why these things are the way they are. The best advice is to do a little experimentation. If you are processing the film yourself just be sure to always do everything the same way. If you have the film run commercially get to know the people at your lab and always use the same lab. Consistency is the key to getting better negatives.