BM786 Switch Issue - Part 2

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  • Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
  • A follow-up to the BM786 switch issue.
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 215

  • @iamdarkyoshi
    @iamdarkyoshi 3 роки тому +69

    The ability for the community to spot stuff like this and a follow up video gets quickly uploaded on it is one of the reasons I love your channel. Creators that engage with their followers get a huge thumbs up from me, and the fact you've got an entire forum community to discuss stuff (which I've gotten a lot of help from) is absolutely brilliant.

    • @groovejet33
      @groovejet33 3 роки тому +2

      Hello Family 😂 As Bigclivelive says👌🤣

    • @D4no00
      @D4no00 3 роки тому +1

      this is how open-source software worked for years, it took longer for some reason for this to be adopted in hardware. I guess the difference is a combination of cost for designing/debugging hardware and everyone being capable of buying/assembling the devices.

    • @kiet489
      @kiet489 3 роки тому

      @@D4no00 Took them long enough lol

  • @alankingvideo
    @alankingvideo 3 роки тому +10

    To repair (and I have done this) I would drill 2 slots at each end of the track and replace the track with some thin beaten and cut 9ct gold which is glued and anchored through the holes. Now when I did this it was about 3 times the size on an industrial switch, that made it considerably easier. I also routed out the PCB to about 1/2 its depth. I only did this because it was an £8000 tester in the 1980s.

    • @johncoops6897
      @johncoops6897 3 роки тому +2

      You can buy conductive foils that are used for RF shielding. There are 2 styles of adhesive, one is conductive (but wouldn't be suitable for this application).
      I have repaired many PCBs using the stuff. It's dead simple to use, just stick it on then solder a link wire to complete the conductivity.

  • @cdyoutoob
    @cdyoutoob 3 роки тому +24

    Probably should of been caught at point of manufacture of bare PCB. Think it's called blistering of subsurface. Impurity in or lack of resin between copper and substrate has resulted in an air pocket. Covered in www.ipc.org/TOC/IPC-A-600H.pdf (this link is only a TOC) if you can get hold of full document. @11:34 it would appear you might be looking at another blister above and one below on the same trace. The colouring would suggest a weakness in the trace there that has not failed yet.
    Repair attempts would be unlikely to last. See if other units have spot in same area of trace.

    • @mcu_nerd2163
      @mcu_nerd2163 3 роки тому +4

      My thoughts exactly, the copper wasn't bonded well to the fiberglass.

  • @MrDoneboy
    @MrDoneboy 3 роки тому +8

    Let's face it Dave...We can't stop Father Time's effect on our senses...Especially when they keep engineering the components, to be smaller and smaller!

  • @adamp1440
    @adamp1440 3 роки тому +5

    You can see how the chunk fold is in line with what I guess is sanding marks so it may have been caused by whatever finishing process they're using. Looks like their QA/manufacturing needs a bit of a rethink.

  • @MinnoW12
    @MinnoW12 3 роки тому +56

    The missing piece isn't welded to the wiper is it ?

    • @Dust599
      @Dust599 3 роки тому +11

      That would be my guess... someone sneezed on it and welded the wiper to that spot, first time it was moved it ripped up the track.

    • @Darxide23
      @Darxide23 3 роки тому +5

      You clearly see the entire wiper in the first video. It's completely clean. No damage to it at all.

    • @zer0b0t
      @zer0b0t 3 роки тому +1

      That's not the only missing part, the ends also look like missing metal, wonder if it could affect it

  • @killymxi
    @killymxi 3 роки тому +22

    Now check whether the wiper dimple has any sharp feature on it, that might lift the track in this and another meter.
    Btw, could a current spike cause a weld?

    • @mrnmrn1
      @mrnmrn1 3 роки тому +2

      That was my idea, too. Maybe the customer measured 1000VDC, or some high freq pulses in ohms mode, and the excessive current from the protection circuit pitted the trace. But things like this would cause soot marks on the PCB around the pit. Maybe the customer cleaned the board before he sent it back to Dave.

    • @berndrosgen1713
      @berndrosgen1713 3 роки тому +1

      It doesn't look like it is caused by overcurrents. You can see a crack in the metal next to the cavity. I think it's either caused by force or due to adhetion problem of the metal layer.

  • @gabest4
    @gabest4 3 роки тому +3

    7:24 There are multiple holes forming in the mV range on the pad next to it. I think the contacting metal is too sharp.

  • @IanScottJohnston
    @IanScottJohnston 3 роки тому +4

    I think I would drill the hole deeper and full it with some conductive glue and get it nice and flush on the top.

  • @killymxi
    @killymxi 3 роки тому +18

    Repair idea: move the wiper to the side a bit, so it slides over the side of the track.

    • @groovejet33
      @groovejet33 3 роки тому +3

      Dave will bin it...
      Where as I'd keep it and Probally never touch it again, but keep it just in case one day ,I may need it😂
      I never will need it. But the day I Chuck it in bin , is the day I'll need the Flaming Galare!! 😂😂
      Bueller?? Bueller??😂

    • @mrnmrn1
      @mrnmrn1 3 роки тому +3

      @@groovejet33 He may send it back to Brymen for further investigation, along with the LCD-faulty one. This way probably Brymen would replace them to him for free.

    • @tomthomasjohnpaulmooremawr3014
      @tomthomasjohnpaulmooremawr3014 3 роки тому

      I thought thé same. Now thinking widenig thé wiper with braid or something

    • @kokodin5895
      @kokodin5895 3 роки тому

      if it was my meter i would probably buy some brass foil (0,1 or 0,05mm) and solder it on top of all contacts adding kapton or other hard wearing tape between contacts to remove steps and make it flat again

    • @groovejet33
      @groovejet33 3 роки тому

      @@mrnmrn1 Your Probally correct. As it's unusual fault?? A gouge outa trace?

  • @sysghost
    @sysghost 3 роки тому +2

    Maybe it's easier to nudge the contact-wipe on the dialpad just the wee bit so the point of it rests just beside the damage.
    About how it might have happened: After assembly, these things are quite clean so maybe the contract-wipe cold-welded itself during storage and shipping, just enough to rip that tiny spot out once it got turned.

  • @artursmihelsons415
    @artursmihelsons415 3 роки тому +4

    There's may be multiple ways, how this happened.. Damaged bare pcb panel, before even manufacturing process started, photo resist didn't stick well in that spot during grease spot etc, or faulty mask or dirt before exposure (depending of positive or negative process)..
    When creating PCB's at home, sometimes, get similar spots on traces when I didn't spot fault on bare PCB or photo resist fly away in one spot during etching.. When using toner transfer method, sometimes, it happens again (toner didn't stick very well, lover point in PCB, etc).. 😂

  • @reginaldcrudstump383
    @reginaldcrudstump383 3 роки тому +2

    Maybe a splash of solder during the manufacturing process got onto the trace which then got ripped off when the switch was operated and took some copper with it? May explain the blackish colour deposit in line with the arc of the contact movement.

  • @Distinctly.Average
    @Distinctly.Average 3 роки тому +6

    Silver paint, you can buy it from automotive stores for repairing heated rear windscreens. It will fill that hole just fine. Used it on an old fluke for similar a couple of years back and it is still going strong

    • @imranahmad2733
      @imranahmad2733 3 роки тому

      Mix a little bit of acetone into the paint and it bonds really well, flatten off the raised material with a razor once the conductive paint has set, clean the surface with alcohol, then apply a few layers of gold leaf, it will pretty much cold weld itself to the contact.

    • @zer0b0t
      @zer0b0t 3 роки тому

      You think different metals could change the precision? Also silver may not have the same oxidation resistance

    • @Distinctly.Average
      @Distinctly.Average 3 роки тому

      @@zer0b0t I would doubt the design would rely on the mode dial for precision. Any changing contact would be too unreliable. That is I believe just a mode selector. Silver should be fine, gold paint is not easy to come by. I am also sure this will end up just as an experiment so should not be too much of a worry

  • @funcool8884
    @funcool8884 2 роки тому +1

    Contacts are made of brass. And the tracks are made of copper. Brass is harder than copper at the expense of zinc.

  • @evensgrey
    @evensgrey 3 роки тому +1

    It's possible the missing hunk of trace was trapped in the switch wiper and it's now gone. As for how it happened...it looks like a bad spot in the PCB where the copper layer didn't adhere well to the FR4 board. After a while, the force of the wiper caused metal fatigue in the copper and it came off.

  • @Darxide23
    @Darxide23 3 роки тому +3

    I'm guessing that you'd be able to do this to all of them like you could with the one with the LCD issues. I'm pretty sure "try to hulk the dial right off" is outside of the regular QA testing parameters and it's not something you'll encounter in an average use scenario or even in a significant number of outlier scenarios. Trying to rip the dial off while the meter is in use isn't something you're really going to see from the end user is what I'm saying.

  • @Stoneman06660
    @Stoneman06660 3 роки тому +1

    I've seen blank PCB with small bubbles where the copper has lifted from the board which may facilitate that sort of failure if it was pre-existing during manufacture.

  • @johncoops6897
    @johncoops6897 3 роки тому +1

    DAVE - could you *PLEASE* explain the Bryman QA procedures for these meters.
    From the comments, heaps of people suggest some kind of (bodge) repair, which demonstrates that they don't understand that these faulty ones need to go back to the factory for inspection. That demonstrates a lack of understanding about QA Systems and how important it is to get the meters back to the manufacturer..

  • @MrCarGuy
    @MrCarGuy 3 роки тому +12

    Something trapped under the trace during manufacturing that eventually caused the chip?

    • @nimeq
      @nimeq 3 роки тому +2

      Personally I suspect dihydrogen monoxide, a substance highly detrimental to manufacturing in general.

    • @sysghost
      @sysghost 3 роки тому

      @@nimeq We should ban this substance. Destroy all traces of it.
      I've heard so much about it and all the dangers from it. Especially the solid form found in colder climates.

  • @SurvivalSquirrel
    @SurvivalSquirrel 3 роки тому +3

    Dave just look at the traces on the other side! The contacts get off track there... I guess the soldermask lifts up the contacts.

    • @zer0b0t
      @zer0b0t 3 роки тому

      Looks like the metal was cleaned in the factory since there are no pieces of metal inside the meter

  • @donepearce
    @donepearce 3 роки тому +10

    I don't think you can repair the trace, but maybe you can deform the switch contact a little so the dimple rides a bit further out from centre and misses the hole. As for the fault transferring to the other meter, that ragged edge on the hole may have compromised the plating on the switch contact.

    • @wobblysauce
      @wobblysauce 3 роки тому

      Could do that.. or I was thinking of the conductive ink style fix.

    • @donepearce
      @donepearce 3 роки тому +1

      @@wobblysauce I think conductive ink would only be a temporary fix - it would rub off pretty quickly.

    • @wobblysauce
      @wobblysauce 3 роки тому

      Maybe, just really need to fill the gap not take the load of the full path.

  • @rabidpb
    @rabidpb 3 роки тому +2

    Was that board all scratched up like that by the factory? Looks like someone's been at it with sandpaper!

  • @RottnRobbie
    @RottnRobbie 3 роки тому +13

    Take it to a jeweler, and pay to have some gold leaf hammer-welded into the gap.
    Or for more fun, hide a GPS tracker inside the case so you know where it goes, and leave it sitting in the "magic dumpster room of treasure". 😎

    • @stefansweerts3825
      @stefansweerts3825 3 роки тому +2

      1st of April (April fools) is in 2 weeks time, it would be a good prank if he could do something like that.

  • @Sylvan_dB
    @Sylvan_dB 3 роки тому +1

    Looks just like one of my old meters that measured rather too much current with the ohms setting. :)
    A bit of conductive copper tape made a new pad.

  • @Fridelain
    @Fridelain 3 роки тому +1

    Easy: Fill with solder (or conductive ink), sand flat, copper plate, nickel plate, gold plate.
    Proper: Drill hole so that it is a bit larger, nice and round, then epoxy copper shim, then do as above sans the filling in.

  • @nicwilson89
    @nicwilson89 3 роки тому +4

    Is there now a chunk missing from the contact in the other meter?

  • @LogiForce86
    @LogiForce86 3 роки тому +2

    Drop of conductive silver glue? I used that to repair my rear windshield defroster lines on two cars already.

    • @ferrumignis
      @ferrumignis 3 роки тому

      Windshield heating elements don't have spring loaded contacts wiping over them every time they are used though.

  • @lasersbee
    @lasersbee 3 роки тому +1

    4:10... Check the original Contact block that is in the other meter and see if the actual contact that wipes on the defective trace is also damaged/burnt/non conductive. BTW.. don't forget to change back the Contact Block to the LCD problem Meter...

  • @bertblankenstein3738
    @bertblankenstein3738 3 роки тому

    I've repaired a trace once with a silver conductive pen. That was on a plastic film inside a keyboard. I'm not sure how well the conductive ink would hold up but you would probably fill that little dimple.

  • @PaulSteMarie
    @PaulSteMarie 3 роки тому +1

    The end of that trace is missing a chunk as well, fwiw.
    The black schmoo is just the metal particles from wear on the sliding contacts. It's the same stuff you see on motor commutators. The one thing it is telling you, though, is that the black track, which is the contact point of the moving part of the switch, goes right through the the hole in the trace.
    MG Chemicals, and others I'm sure, make pens with a conductive paint that you can use like a marker to repair traces of that sort. I did it to repair the battery contacts on my HP 41c and it's done a great job.

    • @zer0b0t
      @zer0b0t 3 роки тому

      Looks like the factory polishing process breaks pieces of metal especially from the ends of the tracks

    • @ferrumignis
      @ferrumignis 3 роки тому

      I doubt those silver loaded conductive paints would stand up to the wiping action of these contacts for long, they aren't very robust.

  • @byronwatkins2565
    @byronwatkins2565 3 роки тому

    An air bubble in the fiberglass resin under the copper layer. Normally would cause no problem but the repeated stress of the wiper broke it out. I might consider a board repair with some filler/epoxy and copper tape to replace the entire pad. This would not be gold plated though.

  • @petersage5157
    @petersage5157 3 роки тому

    I'd put a phemptoPaul of flux on the trace and flow on a tiny bit of solder. As you know, adding a bit of solder to shore up traces that were over-etched was fairly common in the bad old days of unmasked home-etched PCBs.

  • @sarbog1
    @sarbog1 3 роки тому

    Very, very cool....... I am still using my Beckman Industrial 2020 from the 1980's ... works great!

  • @imark7777777
    @imark7777777 3 роки тому +1

    Repair idea: conductive paint or conductive pen. My plan was to do that with a TV remote I ended up doing it something else I don’t remember what. You could put solder in it and then polish it down.

  • @PlasmaHH
    @PlasmaHH 3 роки тому +2

    It probably won't be worth the effort here, but I have seen it being done. First you dig out a bit more to clean the hole up. Then you apply some conductive high quality epoxy (usually high temperature because its done for ripped pads too, in which case you glue down some gold plated copper foil) and then cnc it clean, mask it out and apply some different platings to it (if you want you can replicate the original stackup of materials) then at the end you sand it smooth and apply one final coat of hard gold

    • @evensgrey
      @evensgrey 3 роки тому

      That sounds like BER when you work out the value of the labor to do all that compared to the value of the meter.

    • @Agent24Electronics
      @Agent24Electronics 3 роки тому

      @@evensgrey Sure, but it's possible.

  • @erikdenhouter
    @erikdenhouter 3 роки тому

    Looks like the PCB was damaged before exposure.
    Drill a hole half way through, and fill it in a few times with with silver conducting glue ? Don't let the result stick out to high, polish it down to level.

  • @chuck10088
    @chuck10088 3 роки тому +1

    Hi Dave, It seems as there is some board damage to the adjacent trace to the left of the main damage. If you draw a line straight from the main damage to the two left most switch outline you will see a small black spot which looks like a small chunk of PCB was removed. If you go to next left outline there is a lighter shade of black with even a smaller chunk taken out. I also noticed that the switch pressure seems heavier on the right outside trace as it appears there is a groove etched in it. On the left side it doesn't appear to be there. I'm wondering if the switch contacts are exerting too much pressure on the right side of the PCB?

  • @jeffm2787
    @jeffm2787 3 роки тому +2

    What's with all the diagonal scratches? Hopefully that's not like that from the factory.

  • @Fake_Blood
    @Fake_Blood 3 роки тому

    My guess is still PCB flex. "Tight as nun's nasty" was said in the first video, and when you're troubleshooting you have a tendency to give it an extra turn. I'd try just normal tension for both the pcb and the mechanism screws. Would also explain the problem transplanting over. Sometimes looser is better ;)

  • @ksbs2036
    @ksbs2036 3 роки тому +1

    I would try gold foil. I don't know if you would need adhesive to make it stick to the PCB, hopefully not. Just press it into the hole and work it in with a small ball-ended tool.

    • @SeanBZA
      @SeanBZA 3 роки тому +2

      Gold foil will work, and is malleable enough that a few passes with a dental probe will get it to fill the hole and be flush with the surface, and it will hold in there stuck under the edges.

  • @TheAussieRepairGuy
    @TheAussieRepairGuy 3 роки тому

    8:28 - I'd dodge it up and fill it with solder - maybe even a silver-tin-lead solder, tinning the entire track, and then sand down gently. Makes it easy to repair in the future at least, but the question has to be - what is more cost effective - repair or replacement?

  • @K2teknik.
    @K2teknik. 3 роки тому +2

    Ohm range, and you try to measure the impedance of the mains?

  • @gamerpaddy
    @gamerpaddy 3 роки тому

    this either looks like a fail from the factory where the copper didnt adhere properly (oil/dirt on the pcb before plating it) and got torn off after being squished by the contact dimple..
    or he measured ohms for a long period and had some moisture / droplet of water on there, causing the metal to eat away by electrolysis.

  • @jrf2112swbellnet
    @jrf2112swbellnet 3 роки тому +1

    I sort of expected Dave to say "We put it smack in the middle, it's Vega" :-)

    • @EEVblog2
      @EEVblog2  3 роки тому +1

      DAMN, missed that one! I can do the accent and everything!

  • @swilwerth
    @swilwerth 3 роки тому +1

    If I need to repair it I would solder a small thin sheet of copper overlapped to cover the hole in a way the contact track wear cannot weaken the solder point.
    And then lapsmooth the edges with fine sandpaper.

  • @StreuB1
    @StreuB1 3 роки тому

    Mechanical damage at the fab more than likely during board assembly or meter assembly. Its am impact mark for sure.

  • @mrnmrn1
    @mrnmrn1 3 роки тому

    Dave, can it be an overload issue? I mean, like measuring 1000VDC in ohms position, and some excessive current from the protection circuit pitted the contact on the PCB? In that case, the wiper is probably damaged as well, and will scratch the plating off of the board in the other meter. So probably a good idea to change back the contacts in the meter with the LCD fault. Yes, overcurrent with such pitting effect would make the board sooty, but maybe the customer was naughty and knew he screwed it up, and cleaned the board before he sent it back to you.

    • @EEVblog2
      @EEVblog2  3 роки тому

      No, it's failed out of the box like this. No overload.

  • @wphanoo
    @wphanoo 3 роки тому +3

    You managed to make it reset in other ranges than Ohm, so I bet it's just a coincidence unfortunately

  • @1995epicfail
    @1995epicfail 3 роки тому

    damage to the board was likely caused by the contacts themselves, thats why you were able to transfer the problem.

  • @stevenspmd
    @stevenspmd 3 роки тому +1

    Could you fill it with solder paste so that it's flat and adheres to the surrounding copper trace? i guess you'd really need some glue on the back, which isn't much better than copper tape. Good luck with that one then :-)

  • @ratdude747
    @ratdude747 3 роки тому

    Saw that in the first video but figured it was an intentional via... DOH!

  • @spacenomad5484
    @spacenomad5484 3 роки тому

    I wondered how the copper does adhere to the FR4 in the first place and the answer seems to be (unsurprisingly): epoxy.
    The best in-place fix would be to mill or grind away some microns on the surface, enough to make room some new resin and the thickness of some copper foil so that it's perfectly even with the remaining copper surface. My gut says the more surface area the better, ie. replace the whole exposed trace part that gets mechanical stress.
    Would love to see a half-arsed attempt with a dremel... I mean it's already broken, so why not break it some more?

  • @russellhltn1396
    @russellhltn1396 3 роки тому +4

    I wonder if there's something like conductive fingernail polish that you can use to fill the hole on the trace.

    • @evensgrey
      @evensgrey 3 роки тому +2

      There are conductive paints for trace repair, but I don't know if there's anything designed to take the kind of mechanical action that trace needs to take in normal operation.

    • @mrnmrn1
      @mrnmrn1 3 роки тому +2

      @@evensgrey I don't think any reliable repair is possible there. Maybe, as someone already mentioned, bend the wiper sideways so it will make contact next to the pit. But this might only be a spare, secondary meter, or a parts donor. I hope Dave won't just bin it, but either sends it back t Brymen, or gives it away as a parts donor for someone who already has a meter like this.

  • @MatthewSuffidy
    @MatthewSuffidy 3 роки тому

    It is not conclusive, but at this point it sort of looks like certain pressures and movements of the switch can result in the gouging board sort of issues.

  • @jaxjackson4100
    @jaxjackson4100 3 роки тому +1

    Repair the trace idea.... silver-mercury amalgam. Aka old dental filling. Still conductive, but will completely void the rohs certification. Lol

  • @BoB4jjjjs
    @BoB4jjjjs 3 роки тому

    Faulty manufacture, but it may have been there in the track when it was made, passed the QC test and then broke up.
    Now meter to the user and report it to the manufacturer so he can follow up the supply. The other meter might have had some gunk on the wiper, after a few rotations it would have cleared.
    The dull display on the other meter is probably where the display contacts the board.
    It happens every now and again, they are so fine a contact the slightest thing upsets them, even a slight contamination on the PCB.
    I would suspect that anyway. Every now and again this will happen, it is up to the manufacturer to follow it up to make sure it is a rare event.

  • @rwbishop
    @rwbishop 3 роки тому +1

    Off topic... but check out the 'Midnight Minichamp'. Pretty much the same knife, but includes a small flashlight built into one of the 'grips'; and a retractable (replaceable) writing pen in the other. The logo on the light side is a squeeze type momentary switch. Had mine for years with no issue... in my case the pen has has proven especially valuable on more than a few occasions. For the record, if you remove the pen & battery, and put the (closed) knife in one of the wife's 'lingerie bags' and run with a load of laundry, it'll come out working silky smooth. Done mine 4 or 5 times without a problem... but as always YMMV.

    • @EEVblog2
      @EEVblog2  3 роки тому

      I don't like the oens with light built in. Mine has the pen.

  • @damowdotnet
    @damowdotnet 3 роки тому

    Looks like pretty high water content in that isopropyl. Or maybe just cooled the board enough for water to condense?

  • @mondeusex893
    @mondeusex893 3 роки тому

    Mister fungus leading the show.#]
    The mushrooms rule

  • @justin3594
    @justin3594 2 роки тому

    I’d try to fill it with lead free solder and sand it flat. If there is nothing else on the other side of the board drill and put in a couple via rivets to give the solder a base to hold onto.

  • @a4andrei
    @a4andrei 3 роки тому

    Unlikely but maybe the copper layer was not properly laminated or the underlying structure had a defect in it. Why is the board so scratched up? Did they rub it with something at the factory?

  • @FrankGennari
    @FrankGennari 3 роки тому

    Maybe the hole was the result of a sharp and heavy object falling on the board somewhere during the manufacturing process. I once accidentally dropped a heavy cordless screwdriver point down onto a PC motherboard and it left a hole like that. It actually broke a trace, and I had to replace it with a tiny wire soldered between the pins of an IC and a socket.

  • @kai990
    @kai990 3 роки тому

    I think you could put a blob of solder on that hole and sand it down afterwards to repair it for a more proper solution?

  • @kc9aop
    @kc9aop 3 роки тому

    I would say the track isn't the issue. I'd bet the switch contact may have been made with a sharp edge. Another thought is the switch handle may have gotten bashed at the factory and that caused the switch contact to deform.

  • @terry6131
    @terry6131 3 роки тому

    Electrical short? See if the switch contacts shows any signs of damage, if not, it's probably a simple manufacturing defect.

  • @patricksweetman3285
    @patricksweetman3285 3 роки тому

    Silver dental amalgam, Dave.

  • @ayourk1
    @ayourk1 3 роки тому

    I'd suggest a little bit of solder and see if that fixes things. Looks like a small chunk is also flaked off of the end of the contact too.

    • @v8snail
      @v8snail 3 роки тому

      Apart from being soft so wear is an issue, solder oxidises preventing a reliable contact long term.

    • @ayourk1
      @ayourk1 3 роки тому

      @@v8snail What about Silver solder?

    • @v8snail
      @v8snail 3 роки тому

      @@ayourk1
      Silver solder is harder in composition but requires more heat which can damage boards and still oxidises readily affecting contact reliability.

  • @ntag411
    @ntag411 2 роки тому

    Looks like the meter was connected to some power source when the meter selector switch was moved, dark carbon streak.

  • @remotepeak
    @remotepeak 3 роки тому +2

    On the inner circle (on the left from chunk, in direction to center of knob) you can see other black chunk (there is no track). Both chunks are directly above track inside PCB (return track from MOVs?). In my opinion somebody has fun with i.e. 230VAC (or more) at ohm range.

    • @EEVblog2
      @EEVblog2  3 роки тому

      I doubt it. Like I said, the series resistors and PTC's won't allow big currents on the ohms range.

    • @remotepeak
      @remotepeak 3 роки тому

      @@EEVblog2 It is easy to verify. Put tip of your knife onto this black spot. If you can't feel difference in comparision to normal PCB, then it's my fault. If there is difference (dip and/or brittle structure), then the question will not be whether there was a breakthrough, but how this voltage pass through.

  • @peterh1386
    @peterh1386 3 роки тому +4

    I would attempt to fill the void with conductive epoxy, making sure that the epoxy is flush with the surface of the remaining PCB trace....

    • @johncoops6897
      @johncoops6897 3 роки тому

      Or do the more obvious thing and send it back for warranty replacement.

    • @peterh1386
      @peterh1386 3 роки тому

      @@johncoops6897 If I had paid for it yes, but there's no sense in Dave scrapping an otherwise healthy multimeter board....

    • @johncoops6897
      @johncoops6897 3 роки тому

      @@peterh1386 - Peter, he SELLS these things (note the logo on the top right?). He cannot "repair" it and re-sell it, and he hardly needs any more multimeters himself. It'll have to go back to the factory, together with all the other returns. The factory needs to see the unit, enter it into the QA system, then issue Dave with a free replacement.

    • @peterh1386
      @peterh1386 3 роки тому

      @@johncoops6897 I wasn't suggesting that he re-sell it, and I know Dave has plenty of meters himself, but he could give it away to someone who can't afford to buy their own (i.e. kids).... Better than sending it back to the factory where they will just scrap the meter... We need to be encouraging repairs in our resource-limited world...

    • @johncoops6897
      @johncoops6897 3 роки тому

      @@peterh1386 - Are you really as naive as you are making out in your comments? This damaged meter (and the other ones too) *NEED* to go back to the factory so that they can inspect the problem(s) and modify the design and/or production for future production runs.
      There's nothing more valuable for improving product design than the return of faulty products - It's an absolutely vital part of accredited Quality Assurance (QA) systems! Aside from issuing a no-charge replacement, most factories even pay to have the faulty stuff shipped back. They almost certainly won't credit Dave or send replacement products unless the faulty units are returned.
      So, [quote] _in our resource-limited world_ don't you think it's important to not produce faulty items that need to be thrown away?

  • @jovangrbic97
    @jovangrbic97 3 роки тому +3

    Why not just flow/wipe some fresh solder over that trace, it should fill/bridge that hole no?

    • @simontay4851
      @simontay4851 3 роки тому +1

      Yes, thats what i would do..just wipe solder over it.

    • @thomasives7560
      @thomasives7560 3 роки тому

      Perhaps silver solder? It's harder and silver has better conductivity.

    • @thomasives7560
      @thomasives7560 3 роки тому

      Just to clarify: silver *bearing* solder. Actual silver solder used for brazing melts way too high. There are many compositions. I prefer the old solder used in Tek scopes (80% tin, 37% lead, and 3% silver) as it solders cleanly and is very hard. It is designed to prevent ruining the plated ceramic standoffs used in the tube-scopes (see US Patent 2836807).

    • @thomasives7560
      @thomasives7560 3 роки тому

      Um, not 80% tin. 60%. PEBKAC.

  • @SeanBZA
    @SeanBZA 3 роки тому

    Possible the bare board before etching was mishandled, and had another board fall on it, leaving the broken thin copper trace. Then got built up during the through hole plating, leaving a bubble of copper over the damage, and after resist applied the crack allowed etchant to make the hole. Then went through the ENIG plating, and solder mask application.
    board should have been rejected during optical inspection, should speak to Brymen about adding extra AOI for the switch area in the process.
    Repair yes copper tape to redo the entire section would work, though you will need to have a really good adhesion to keep it from being peeled off. Might work if you have a board with a thick ENIG plating on that you can peel of a section and cut to shape, and then stick down with superglue, and solder to the existing via outside the switch running track.
    Otherwise a tiny drop of conductive ink in there, and then selective plating of copper on to fill the hole, followed by the same selective plating methods to get the nickel barrier on, and then a thick gold layer on. Likely costing more than the board itself, only really used in the military to repair some really old and obscure boards. There yes we did do the whole make a new bit of board to fill the charred hole, and epoxy it in, then build up the traces again with copper tape, then put the components on and solder them, followed by yet more superglue to repair the lifted places you soldered, and then giving the section a conformal coat both sides to hold it together. But easier to just replace the board, even if it was 6 figures in cost.

  • @Sezdik
    @Sezdik 3 роки тому

    I think the contacts thats sitting on those traces are pressured too much and the contact edges become very sharp exactly at that point to and cut the trace. So to say shave it in a way.. Just my thought..

  • @bamboozled9120
    @bamboozled9120 3 роки тому

    I’m glad I didn’t click the - Place order - switch

  • @backgammonbacon
    @backgammonbacon 3 роки тому

    All the other contacts ends are square but this one has a blob running off following the solder mask? in other places where there is a transition it's smooth so I wonder if the solder mask just ballsed up in that location and a bit of it got stuck to the trace before the gold got put down.

  • @proten40
    @proten40 3 роки тому

    Put some solder in it and see if it goes away!

  • @sikkepossu
    @sikkepossu 3 роки тому

    Must have been some crap on the pcb base material at the time of manufacturing.

  • @zeekjones1
    @zeekjones1 3 роки тому

    So micrometeorites did it?
    Looks like an impact crater.
    But the fact that the other one does it, it may be the contacts may lift off when yanked...
    The hole in the gold definitely made it worse.

  • @TheDefpom
    @TheDefpom 3 роки тому

    I have seen cracked traces on sections that are 25mm across, it can happen.

  • @dentakuweb
    @dentakuweb 3 роки тому

    Dave's audio and video is slightly out of sync since he got that camera switcher box/recorder thing.

  • @Knight8365
    @Knight8365 3 роки тому

    Great globs of solder will fix it Dave!

  • @kruppin
    @kruppin 3 роки тому +1

    Try filling it with solder. Won't work long time but just to see if it works then. You made it not work in mv range before too, so not only ohm, so solder would be interesting to see! :)
    Edit: just a blob in the hole and try reflowing to even the surfaces, or sand it after. Won't work long, but enough to see if that was the problem, since you made it not work in mv range too before changing switch.

    • @eDoc2020
      @eDoc2020 3 роки тому

      That's what I would do, but I would expect it to last quite a long time. I've recreated a broken rotary switch contact with a rounded spike of solder as the contact point and it still works fine a few years later. I suppose the self-wiping action is the reason it still works, all the natural oxidation gets rubbed off.

    • @kruppin
      @kruppin 3 роки тому

      @@eDoc2020 yeah, but since it is such a relative big hole, the solder will only stick to the edges, which is the biggest reason I don't think it will work long time. But I could be wrong ofc. 🤔

  • @ableite
    @ableite 3 роки тому

    Just add a thin layer of solder on that trace to cover the hole

  • @pierre3727
    @pierre3727 3 роки тому

    Why are the scratches on the surface not along the wipe traces but just across the board?

  • @mchabbi
    @mchabbi 3 роки тому

    Can you use one of those conductive pens? Circuit maker/Circuit writer or some brand that is used to repair PCBs?

  • @Arek_R.
    @Arek_R. 3 роки тому +1

    Looks like it has been blown up, you won't get the black stuff on it otherwise yes?

    • @Arek_R.
      @Arek_R. 3 роки тому

      Yes I know you shouldn't get any major current flowing there on ohms range, but what it had some component fail, attached to some DC/AC source and it shorted badly?

  • @nicolashuot
    @nicolashuot 3 роки тому

    Maybe it is reparable using conductive epoxy, like Epotek H20E ...

  • @georgemaragos2378
    @georgemaragos2378 3 роки тому

    Hi Dave
    Those 2 sets of wheel skid marks where the chip is, is there any change that something is being dragged over there or the board is not 100% flat and level and it is a physical "scratch" from the selector contacts ??
    That "2 oclock position" has 3 rings and black marks yet no other area of the circuit board has any back circle marks
    Regards
    George

  • @michaelkaliski7651
    @michaelkaliski7651 3 роки тому

    Just run a bit of solder over the trace and it'll be right.

  • @chrishartley1210
    @chrishartley1210 3 роки тому

    So now we know one thing for sure - Dave needs new glasses.

  • @qlum
    @qlum 3 роки тому

    The hole looks like someone stabbed it with a pointy object, such as a screwdriver, maybe something like that happened during manufacturing.

  • @jeremiahrex
    @jeremiahrex 3 роки тому

    The black marks aren’t on the other side of the switch though?

  • @misteragony
    @misteragony 3 роки тому

    I would have tried repairing it by putting a big blob of solder on top of it. And fail miserably when I find out the solder doesn't stick of course.

  • @javierpallalorden
    @javierpallalorden 3 роки тому +1

    Interesting pit in the trace.

  • @evana3636
    @evana3636 3 роки тому

    Cold welded to the switch then whipped off Or defect in the PCB at manufacturing.?.?.
    Both the contact of switch and PCB are gold? If soft enough gold then cold weld is possible.
    Once contacts are used enuff and there is some grime then it shouldn't happen, just when new.

  • @poptartmcjelly7054
    @poptartmcjelly7054 3 роки тому

    8:15 looks like there's no soldermask on the rows to the left, wouldn't that allow the contacts to wear against the fiberglass and cause premature wear?

  • @ronmuller9899
    @ronmuller9899 3 роки тому

    not a feasible repair. trace and a switch contact at same time....sorry, new PCB is only practical way. The question is, how did this happen. Possibly an impact on the rotary knob when in this position. try dropping something heavy on the knob and see what impact it has on the 50 odd micron gold trace.

  • @WacKEDmaN
    @WacKEDmaN 3 роки тому +1

    interesting pitting...it doesnt look like its from arcing... looks like its just a section thats broken away....thats still weird!...
    id just try to solder the hole closed... and try to make it so its not stucking up too high... prolly a bodge..but might work
    maybe a layer of solder right along that track might be the go... like the old solder flow traces...the springiness of the switch contacts should compensate for any extra height..

    • @rwhitenz
      @rwhitenz 3 роки тому +1

      Solder would be way too soft apart from proving that was issue.

    • @WacKEDmaN
      @WacKEDmaN 3 роки тому +1

      @@rwhitenz yeah possably...but should get a bit more life outta it until it needs redoing!

    • @ronmuller9899
      @ronmuller9899 3 роки тому +1

      no. solder is not a good conductor and oxidises rapidly. fix would be good for 5 minutes. tops.

  • @DomManInT1
    @DomManInT1 3 роки тому

    The way to repair a PCB contact is replace the PCB. You are not talking about a $1000 item here.