I wonder if he ever made it to Vermont? When Stephen Fry said he was planning on visiting for 50 states. I would’ve been at the venue in a heartbeat living here in Vermont. This is such a wonderful conversation. I love the level of curiosity, the respectful interruptions, the continual flow of ideas.
It's so interesting to hear him (them, I suppose) talk about the differences in American and British thought processes, as well as the political ideals of the governments. [I say governments because the citizens don't necessarily have the same ideals as the official stance of the government.]
yes i agree the comment that when you are depressed its like you totally believe there is no ending. TO OVERCOME THIS TO SMALL DEGREE...i found that certain undeniable facts and using them as a sort of internal mantra. This would be along the lines of "although things are bad today the one thing in life that is constant is change and as bad as they get they can only get better. The problem is that depression is a very dark place so its important to use totally irrefutable logic as a mantra. I am now well free of this and it has been many years. I think its possible to lapse in depression easily and i would not be at all surprised if it was all related to diet after all we are what we eat. I also used a second mental mantra along the lines of life being a rollercoaster and you can more control the ups and downs for the most part so you better just buckle up and enjoy the ride as it will be over before you know it.
Just as important as freedom of speech is the capacity to think. How many conflicts are created by the failure of reason? Moreover, as Fry points out, the testing of ideas through empiricism removes flawed ideas. Freedom of speech is a very small prize if it merely protects inanity.
Reading some of the comments people wonder how Fry can claim that we, the British/English, can on the one hand be seemingly obsessed with class and then go on to claim that we're all a good as each other. I can see the paradox, but speaking for myself it rings true. I think it's because we don't do deference, someone might belong to a higher class but it doesn't mean we respect them or think them better. We even have inverted snobbery. I think I remember reading somewhere that Casanova said something like that in England if a nobleman speaks too rudely to a street urchin he's likely to get punched in the face.
Of course there are class distinctions in the U.S. however there is a strong belief that any man can attain riches and therefore status if he tries hard enough; this is not the case in the U.K. where even if you do earn the riches you will not have the status.
Yes 'exchanged'. In America a working class man (middle class using U.S. parlance) can become President. In the Uk a working class man can't even read the news on television, or if he does he'd better lose his regional accent. I am working class and I can tell you and Fry that we are fully aware of class distinction and its limitations. Fry has got this backward in my opinion.
But isn't that sort of America's own naive view of itself? You all adhere to the same constitution, vote for the same two political parties and share pretty much the same sort of values (freedom, capitalism etc.). There are many differences of course but you could find similar differences between northern and southern England as well. They however would never refer to their regions as "tiny little countries". It's all about levels of differences, much like Fry's Zeno story.
But, by and large the reason I don't want you on my properity is that should anything happen to you I can be sued. If you give up the right to sue I will let you browse the land, but since you can not give up your right sue, I can not let you wander my land willy nilly.
The 'flyover'. That's horrible. I rarely side with America's constant haranguing of 'elitists' but that really is a mark of snobbery since the 'flyover' is still the overwhelming majority of the country. Not that this is unique to America. I suppose that's the case in any country where the culture can often be dictated by the major conurbations. We certainly continue to have a very London-centric political and media culture here (hence the BBC's initiative to decentralise much of its output).
Fry appears to have wildly contradicted himself there - he does discuss the British obsession with class elsewhere in the interview. And why he has fully exchanged British and Americans' attitudes towards class I'll never know. Odd, perhaps he was trying to make a complex point on a complex issue and it got lost in the mix?
Well, that's a very partisan and might I say clichéd critique on traditional British socialism and certainly does not reflect the policies implemented by the current Labour party - mores the pity! And quite how you'd know the relative levels of ridicule between two such disparate classes of people I'll never know... I'd guess that the rich have little to moan about though, so why attack the working classes at all?
Two kings of the over-wrought metaphor. Skillful evasions in language, but the only aspect both of them seem to elide is the gift of incision - one would think such a thing a capital crime for a sharp intellect, no?
@chrisjoneschrisjones Drop the embittered anti-English routine! England isn’t a monolithic unity represented by London & the Home Counties. There are tons of culturally distinct English regions (the North East, the West Country, Lancashire, etc). Yorkshire has twice the population of Wales, but doesn’t throw its collective toys out of the pram about having a regional assembly & contrived members-only language. As for Scotland, Glasgow has one of the biggest gaps between rich and poor in the UK.
I feel it is a shame that this times youth, where I stand that is, has sort of this smug ignorance towards higher aspirations. The earlier generation is such an example, and it seems as if only parts of mine gets that. Correct me if I´m wrong. I am after all only a modern north folk.
gagothesith, you have a basic idea of what you're talking about - no more. And you're getting angry - because you're young, probably. I'm too old and you are too easy to counter, so there'll be no more debate between us. Here's to your maturing opinions, don't shout too loud or make too many assumptions, one day another blabbermouth will embarrass you in front of some girl/guy you like.
Ah, the British and their naive little conception of America. When will they realize that it's not just a country, but a union of many tiny little countries with relatively small but distinct cultural differences? Connecticut is about as similar to Florida as Florida is to Australia.
Wonderful. Two razor sharp intellects presented with charm and great eloquence. Thankyou for posting this great program.
Fantastic meeting of minds - thanks for posting this.
I wonder if he ever made it to Vermont? When Stephen Fry said he was planning on visiting for 50 states. I would’ve been at the venue in a heartbeat living here in Vermont. This is such a wonderful conversation. I love the level of curiosity, the respectful interruptions, the continual flow of ideas.
Stephen Fry is such a fascinating man. I could listen to him talk for days. :D
It's so interesting to hear him (them, I suppose) talk about the differences in American and British thought processes, as well as the political ideals of the governments. [I say governments because the citizens don't necessarily have the same ideals as the official stance of the government.]
What a brilliant man
It unfortunately took 10 years for the algorithm to shovel this into my intray. But it did, so that's ok.
Absolutely !
When's Stephen coming to New Jersey? hehe
Wonderful. Thank you.
Actually, Im not sure that it is illegal for individuals in the U.S.A. to own nuclear missiles.
Well put...
yes i agree the comment that when you are depressed its like you totally believe there is no ending. TO OVERCOME THIS TO SMALL DEGREE...i found that certain undeniable facts and using them as a sort of internal mantra. This would be along the lines of "although things are bad today the one thing in life that is constant is change and as bad as they get they can only get better. The problem is that depression is a very dark place so its important to use totally irrefutable logic as a mantra. I am now well free of this and it has been many years. I think its possible to lapse in depression easily and i would not be at all surprised if it was all related to diet after all we are what we eat. I also used a second mental mantra along the lines of life being a rollercoaster and you can more control the ups and downs for the most part so you better just buckle up and enjoy the ride as it will be over before you know it.
Liberty and Justice for all. Liberty and Justice are inseparable.
So true :D. School is't for learning you know. It's only to keep people in place.
Just as important as freedom of speech is the capacity to think. How many conflicts are created by the failure of reason? Moreover, as Fry points out, the testing of ideas through empiricism removes flawed ideas. Freedom of speech is a very small prize if it merely protects inanity.
They're talking about the first definition
then why are you watching the 3rd part of an interview with him?!
The clue is in the title. It is not an interview, it's a "talk". And unlike your good self, Mr. Fry has great respect and admiration for C.J.
Half a century ago? I'm thirty fucking six!
Reading some of the comments people wonder how Fry can claim that we, the British/English, can on the one hand be seemingly obsessed with class and then go on to claim that we're all a good as each other. I can see the paradox, but speaking for myself it rings true. I think it's because we don't do deference, someone might belong to a higher class but it doesn't mean we respect them or think them better. We even have inverted snobbery. I think I remember reading somewhere that Casanova said something like that in England if a nobleman speaks too rudely to a street urchin he's likely to get punched in the face.
The problem here is that he thinks in the US, we do deference to rich people... which is ludicrous. And coming from a Brit, it's a joke!
I see it's been a couple of years, and I think the last election kinda speaks for itself..
Clive James taking in a library and Stephen Fry talking in a librsry - pity they're mostly talking to themselves and not each other.
Nonsense.
How can intelligence be outdated? A lot of the wisdom of ancient civilisations still applies today.
Of course there are class distinctions in the U.S. however there is a strong belief that any man can attain riches and therefore status if he tries hard enough; this is not the case in the U.K. where even if you do earn the riches you will not have the status.
Great little interview........however a bit rushed.....not elaborated enough.
Some good pointers.
mr fry what about mike caine,malcolm mcdowl plenty of common place actors.....
Je le comprends très bien ,je me sens inutile .... tout le temps
He could have just said: non-human animals are not self-reflexive.
Yes 'exchanged'. In America a working class man (middle class using U.S. parlance) can become President. In the Uk a working class man can't even read the news on television, or if he does he'd better lose his regional accent. I am working class and I can tell you and Fry that we are fully aware of class distinction and its limitations. Fry has got this backward in my opinion.
If you guys are arguing about classicism.
It's around and the affluent still wield their wealth against the underclasses.
age of consent is the effort on making an ideal society only "effort". There is no such thing as ideal society Mr.Fry
Smugly missing the point - a British or American trait?
But isn't that sort of America's own naive view of itself? You all adhere to the same constitution, vote for the same two political parties and share pretty much the same sort of values (freedom, capitalism etc.). There are many differences of course but you could find similar differences between northern and southern England as well. They however would never refer to their regions as "tiny little countries". It's all about levels of differences, much like Fry's Zeno story.
But, by and large the reason I don't want you on my properity is that should anything happen to you I can be sued. If you give up the right to sue I will let you browse the land, but since you can not give up your right sue, I can not let you wander my land willy nilly.
0:10 Stephen Fry being whiny that people who can't get into wealthy acting jobs because of how arbitrary the hiring process is are somehow lazy
The 'flyover'. That's horrible. I rarely side with America's constant haranguing of 'elitists' but that really is a mark of snobbery since the 'flyover' is still the overwhelming majority of the country. Not that this is unique to America. I suppose that's the case in any country where the culture can often be dictated by the major conurbations. We certainly continue to have a very London-centric political and media culture here (hence the BBC's initiative to decentralise much of its output).
Fry appears to have wildly contradicted himself there - he does discuss the British obsession with class elsewhere in the interview. And why he has fully exchanged British and Americans' attitudes towards class I'll never know. Odd, perhaps he was trying to make a complex point on a complex issue and it got lost in the mix?
How is this relevant to my comments?
disrespectful? by who's standards?
Moi aussi! It's a giant fucking pain in the arse, n'est-ce pas?
Well, that's a very partisan and might I say clichéd critique on traditional British socialism and certainly does not reflect the policies implemented by the current Labour party - mores the pity! And quite how you'd know the relative levels of ridicule between two such disparate classes of people I'll never know... I'd guess that the rich have little to moan about though, so why attack the working classes at all?
Two kings of the over-wrought metaphor. Skillful evasions in language, but the only aspect both of them seem to elide is the gift of incision - one would think such a thing a capital crime for a sharp intellect, no?
I'm not sure what Stephen is saying. British society is very class ridden surely!
Only with the upper classes
@chrisjoneschrisjones Drop the embittered anti-English routine! England isn’t a monolithic unity represented by London & the Home Counties. There are tons of culturally distinct English regions (the North East, the West Country, Lancashire, etc). Yorkshire has twice the population of Wales, but doesn’t throw its collective toys out of the pram about having a regional assembly & contrived members-only language. As for Scotland, Glasgow has one of the biggest gaps between rich and poor in the UK.
I feel it is a shame that this times youth, where I stand that is, has sort of this smug ignorance towards higher aspirations. The earlier generation is such an example, and it seems as if only parts of mine gets that.
Correct me if I´m wrong. I am after all only a modern north folk.
gagothesith, you have a basic idea of what you're talking about - no more. And you're getting angry - because you're young, probably. I'm too old and you are too easy to counter, so there'll be no more debate between us. Here's to your maturing opinions, don't shout too loud or make too many assumptions, one day another blabbermouth will embarrass you in front of some girl/guy you like.
Ah, the British and their naive little conception of America. When will they realize that it's not just a country, but a union of many tiny little countries with relatively small but distinct cultural differences? Connecticut is about as similar to Florida as Florida is to Australia.
Liberty and Justice for all. Liberty and Justice are inseparable.