Book of Revelation & Eschatology: Rethinking Pretribulational Rapture Theology
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- Опубліковано 24 січ 2018
- Craig R. Dumont and Dr. Craig Keener talk about the misinterpretation of scripture producing the historically new pretribulation rapture teaching.
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Jesus said he will raise us up on the Last Day, not 3.5 or 7 years prior.
good point!
Amen!
Jesus also said: "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; *the word I spoke is what will judge him AT THE LAST DAY."*
And when is this last day if you know the answer?
@@JesseMgala The Day of the Lord, beginning with his physical return, at the end of the age.
@@Mike65809 You're talking about *the last day.* Now you're talking about *the day of the Lord?* So which day do you want to talk about?
We had similar misunderstand over this topic for years and in the church it was preached in missed way. In our theology school there was a debate, and my stand was rupture post-tribulation. Thank you for sharing us this knowledge.
The only Christians that get raptured are the saints that overcome the Mark of the beast
Jesus says this in
Revelation 2
Revelation 3
Revelation 6 9
Revelation 7 14
Revelation 14 13
Revelation 15 2
Revelation 20 4-6
Christians wake up after the thousand year reign of Jesus
Daniel 12 2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting Life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
It's all there in Revelation 20
Persecution coming, Keep the Faith
Jesus is Truth
@@squirreljones3595 Almost. The dead in Christ rise FIRST. Then those who are left, their bodies transform, and they join them. The marriage supper is before the millennium, on the day Christ returns. After the millennium, the non-believers who are dead rise and go to the lake of fire, the 2nd death. Along with the AC and false prophet who have been bound during the millennium.
@@Littleangel_-jp4xb
Revelation 20 5
But the rest of the dead lived not again till the thousand years have finished. This is the
First Resurrection.
Daniel 12 2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting Life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt
Revelation 20 12-15
Sounds exactly like Daniel 12 2
@@squirreljones3595
1 Thess 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air
clearly says the dead in Christ rise FIRST after the 2nd coming. Those left on earth are not "raptured" until after those people rise.
the "rest of the dead" aren't Christians. They are bound for 1,000 yrs with the Devil. Devil is locked up at Rev 20:1.
Daniel 12:2 is correct. The dead in Christ rise to everlasting life. The "rest of the dead," the non-believers, go into the lake of fire with Satan, AC, false prophet Rev 20:14. After judgment finds that their names are not in the book of life. That is the 2nd death.
@@Littleangel_-jp4xb
Revelation 20 15
And whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the Lake of FIRE
Revelation 20 5
But the rest of the dead lived not again till the thousand years have finished. This is the First Resurrection.
Only the saints that overcome the Mark of the beast reign with Jesus for the thousand years
True Dr. Keener we just must be ready to be with out Lord Jesus either way. Rather we live or die it be for the Lord Jesus Christ.
Wish the sound quality was better than this!
I believe many will get saved in the beginning of the tribulation so why would the church be taken away who's going to be there to help those young Christians get through the first half of the tribulation or longer before we are all martyred in Jesus and I'm sure they'll be some left alive in Israel
New Covenant Whole Gospel:
Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him.
He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14.
Awaken Church to this truth.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.
Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (Acts 2:36)
beautifully done !!
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
Amen!
Dispensationalism is 100% true and the only way to divide The Word ! This guy is an idiot
@@KoolCat-vg1rt calling someone an idiot while you uphold a doctrine which is your idol to be true over scripture. It’s sad people in the Christian world attack other Christians because they feel their doctrine is correct
When they don’t bother to even look where their doctrine came from. So please before you open your mouth and call another Christian an idiot please look up where dispensationalism actually came from. The Bible does not teach doctrine
But men impose their doctrine over the bible
@@stephansotomayor9696 idiot is in the Bible, and it’s talking about you
Hey buddy, how have you been doing? I’m thinking you remember me but under my other channel.Im still getting called satan by pretriibers. They hate the truth. I just wrote a second logical fallacy challenge for pretribbers you would love and are free to use if you want a copy. Nobody has answered it yet. You cant answer a contradiction within your own teaching once you realize it is in there. God gives wisdom to bring these ideas about. God Bless!
Thank you!
I wanted so much to have pre-trib rapture reasons that would convince me... but I haveńt yet. After much research and bible study, I understand the Bible refers to post-trib rapture. And I only wonder how will God keep us from all that mess. Maybe like Lot and Noah... escaping somewhere safe?
God help me not be afraid or selfish and greedy ever, no matter how tough it gets.
I was thinking that the stepping away of the restrainer (2 Thes 2:6) might refer to the diminishing power of the church, due to either persecution or to the reduction of the number of born-again Christians.(Daniel 12:17)
Interesting curiosity
You're a cool dude. I love you, Brother.
I can prove a pre trib if ur sincere
Post-trib rapture is not happening. John 14:2-3, 1Cor 15:51-52 and 1Thess 4:16-17 tell me so.
@@JesseMgala these are fantastic scriptures you bring up. Unfortunately they do not prove your theological interpretations.
These texts have no context whatsoever in regards to the point your attempting to make.
Texts without context have become pretext for proof texts.
These scriptures are saying nothing more and nothing less than the fact that there will be a change.
Furthermore ... since you are taking scriptures out of context what do make of Daniel 12:1-4 ?
In context this obviously happens after the Antichrist meets his demise
those who are for pre trib are going to be dissapionted ...why would believers be exempt from persecution? many have and still are being put to death for their belief in YESHUA the early believers suffered and so will us who follow YESHUA yes unto death ...go listen to FIA (frontier international alliance)...shalom
Should the second coming and the rapture be at the same time, when is the marriage super of the lamb.?
Does the millennium therefore not begin after the 7 years of tribulation?
When the 2 witnesses are called up that's the rapture of the dead in Christ 1st then we who are alive and remain
The Progressive Parallelism of Revelation: 1- Chapters 1-3. 2- Chapters 4-7. 3- Chapters 8-11. 4- Chapters 12-14. 5- Chapters 15-16. 6- Chapters 17-19. 7- Chapters 20-22.
It's an interesting view that this was intended to be unclear. But how true is this view?
I wonder what the original recipients would have understood this message.
I would like to believe that the original recipients should be extremely clear of Jesus's warning what were to happen very soon (Chapter 1:1-6 pretty much gave a full introduction to the entire message).
This book was written to the 1st century Jews, but only for us as reference what had happened, so that we may know He is the Lord.
Yes and I can’t ignore all the many imminent time statements:- near/at hand/ shortly come to pass/ it is the last hour/ in a very little while/ some standing here shall not taste death/ the ax is laid to the root - all throughout the New Testament...
I believe Christ came in judgement in AD70, with the obliteration of Jerusalem and her temple just as He prophesied, not one stone upon another... to that generation, the generation that killed the Lord Jesus Christ..
M
God bless you in your quest for truth..
Those worrying more about the last days than the commandment of the Lord to love others as they've been loved by Him, have NOTHING to look forward to.
Wish I could source the Gordon Fee quote about pre trib!!!
Perhaps here
ua-cam.com/video/GR7xFf83nqg/v-deo.html
PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418
Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf
Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf
Ending precise, Dispensation Theology is man made convenience.
Dispensationalism is false. Caught up simply means excited. Dispensation means administer administration administrative distribute. John Darby dispensationalism theology and Futurism is incorrect and inaccurate. Another gospel.
@@johnnyangel1455 And has led to Christian antisemitism, which definitely ought to be an oxymoron.
@@johnnyangel1455 The following proves you are correct.
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?
(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)
The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?
1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8)
2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?
3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?
4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?
5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?
6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?
7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?
8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)
9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
10. Watch the UA-cam video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.
Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.
Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.
John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…
"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25
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Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)
What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?
Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?
Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13?
Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
The very end of this world is full of God's glory and miracles why wouldn't we want to be there we don't have to fear the devil it's judgement time walk in the light with holy spirit and trust Jesus
I agree, nobody wants to live thru the last seven years. The only possibility of a pre-trib event I see is Luke 17:22-37. I find it difficult to believe there is going to be a lot of eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, building and getting married at the end of the age. Everybody is hiding in a cave (Revelation 6:15-17). It will be next to impossible to build or plant anything if you are hiding in a cave. I don't see how this could be a post-trib event. For the resurrection problem, I agree it has to be a post-trib event. I don't see a resurrection in Luke 17. I think Jesus is saying we leave our flesh on earth (verse 37). There is a flash of light, and then dead bodies. We don't disappear.
Don't know if you get this but data correctly interpreted then dispositioned correctly is correct. The theology imo, you ascribe is all wrong. Rapture. Resurrection. Resurrection is identified we agree 1st on that. Yes? Caught up, or mistakenly interpreted 'rapture' is simply excited. Paul uses brilliant imagery & illustrations to teach the doubting & anxious Thessalonikins. Antiquity & normal traditions of Rome is when the king returned a twas sent forth & an scout seated high. The scout sent forth would be the sign for the scout seated. If the scout was running in jubilee the seated scout would announce victory thus prepared the way for the king! Garlic, parfumes, banners etc and the people now, EXCITED to meet the king upon his return just outside the city thus joining him in the procession together with his people, saints. 🎯☮👍
Those activities were described before the Great Flood & the destruction of S&D. This describes the 🐍👁 race of hybrid Nephilim aka Giants. Book of Numbers reveals they were cannibals. Genesis 3 describes the Serpent's judgement as crawling on it's belly & eating Dust all the days of it's life. Humans are made in the image of Adam, Dust of the Earth. This is about DNA as in GENEsis & reGENEration. The entire race of 🐍👁 eat & drink DN@ which is made of protein. Planting & Building refers to SOWING the 🐍👁 & rebuilding humans as hybrids. That's why all flesh had become corrupted in the days of Noah. Jesus said it would happen again in the last days. Hence we are warned that men's hearts will fail them bc it will be horrifying. But the Book of Revelation says the reader of the Book would be blessed so we have reason to hope. Buying & selling refers to ppl selling their souls to The Beast System just to preserve their life & incomes. But Jesus said he who seeks to save his life will lose it [his soul] & those who die for their faith will find eternal life. It's truly a paradox.
We can't understand everything God does we just have to believe he will protect us . I think in my opinion just like Jesus said days of Noah and days of lot. The none believers ate drank and merry, but lot and Noah had tribulation. Only difference is last days possibly larger scale. Wrath of God pours on those who took the mark, but tribulation is a Shaking of people on the fence who will fall on one or the other side
Hebrews 1:3, Rev 4:3, 1 Thess 4:16, Rev 10:1-3, 1 Cor 15:52, Rev 11:15, Rev 14:14-16
💜💚💜💚💜💚💜💚💜
Matthew 24:29-51
1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:11
2 Thessalonians 1:5-2:17
1 Corinthians 15:12-58
I'm at loggerheads as to whether believing in a pre-tribulation rapture (which i don't) matters or not, in terms of seeking God and following Jesus. Truth matters, yes. All scriptural misapprehensions are not created equal, though, i tend to think. I can't decide if being wrong about the timing of Jesus' return is crucial to the Christian walk or not. Any number of pre-trib believers may die in the next weeks or months, rendering their musings moot.
I desire to be in the truth, most people do. But how many of us REALLY get down to studying our doctrines? We find in the scriptures exactly what we expect to find, having been taught what to expect, and to relegate all else to error or heresy.
Pro trick: watch movies on flixzone. I've been using them for watching a lot of movies these days.
@Ayaan Travis Yea, been watching on flixzone for since november myself =)
Spamsterz begone
I have wondered the same... I have been considering what is bigger lie behind the deception.... I am leaning in the direction of suspecting that this pre-trib rapture lie will somehow help seat the man of sin....
It is very clear from Mt. 24 that Christ returns "after the tribulation". The word "after" should resolve your struggle.
We are missing the goal. The critical question to ask is if you are raptured or not. Who can be raptured must be discussed with severe and serious examinations of each one's faith.
The only Christians that get raptured are the saints that overcome the Mark of the beast
Jesus says this in
Revelation 2
Revelation 3
Revelation 6 9
Revelation 7 14
Revelation 14 13
Revelation 15 2
Revelation 20 4-6
Christians wake up after the thousand year reign of Jesus
Daniel 12 2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting Life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
It's all there in Revelation 20
Persecution coming, Keep the Faith
Jesus is Truth
Good video by the way. Sometimes I think I am the only pentecostal that can see right through LaCunza-Darbyism.
You are not alone :)
Pentecostalism is another false view though sadly
@@aquila813apologetics3 Why do you say that? Is the Holy Spirit dead? Where is that in scripture? Nowhere. it has to be eisogeted not exegeted therefore cannot be proven or is false. It is trying to do apologetics from a “position of silence”, not from scripture itself. The same people teaching hermeneutics and exegesis in our Bible colleges have one huge of a double-standard when it comes to a pet-peeve doctrine they hold to that CANNOT be proven exegetically so they themselves eisogete or surface read the scriptures like Kenneth Copeland does Hypocrisy. And I am no fan of Copeland believe me.
look at all them that teach we are going back to animal sacrifices in their false millennial view? that is the greatest blasphemy, not heresy I have ever heard of. Not all pentecostals hold to the fake stuff. I was healed when hands were laid on me as well as millions of others. It was pretty common 40 years ago to get healed. What has changed? A whole lot of sin in the churches, a whole lot of pastors looking at porn, a whole lot of hypocrisy and unneeded division, a whole lot of ministries speaking like atheists saying God doesn’t do these things anymore like healing.
People have lost their faith and betrayed one another that believed in the pre-trib rapture and dispensational theology in 1844, the 1930’s and so on. I have seen many come to Christ because of a healing they or someone they knew got from laying on of hands. go figure. People like John MacArthur whom I love on so many levels will have to answer to God though on judgment day about his constant attack on all pentecostalism. I feel sorry for those doing that. They call themselves watchman but don’t attack the many false doctrines in their own camps like Calvinism, the Reformed Movement, baptist that spread dispensational theology, and so on. It’s a holier than thou attitude and full of pride. Many will have zero reward that today are touted as great men of God and there will be some little old 90 year old ladies who pray for souls daily that no one has ever heard of highly rewarded for their love for people and meeting people where they are at in the love of Christ giving the truth in LOVE.
Until someone can prove to me “exegetically” from scripture that the gifts of the Holy Spirit have been done away with I will listen to them but no one can. God still does these supernatural things in other countries that haven’t left God. Love you in Jesus but your comment is unfounded in scripture and I fear you follow men more than the word of God.
@@sacredcowtipper1378 I agree with you. Pre trib rapture and the dispensationalist sham is the biggest false doctrine in the church. I also oppose "Once Saved, Always Saved", preterism, amillennialism, calvinism, prosperity gospel as well as all the obvious cults. Sound Biblical doctrine is what is needed and should abide by. But the way charismatics act is undignifed and childish. It is another movement that started only in the 1900's!! Rolling around on the floor and barking like dogs etc. I find this embarrassing if I'm honest. I believe we should be mature, sensible but yes fun loving spirit filled Christians worshipping in grace and prace. But not acting all silly like Ive seen in the charismatic movement.
@@aquila813apologetics3 I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID. Just keep in mind not all pentecostals are crazy like that. I left a church that was pretty sound when they allowed a little bit of that laughter stuff in. Something didn’t feel right in my spirit man about that. I felt a lot of it was concocted to be honest. God doesn’t have to force joy. Was all of it wrong. Probably most of the laughter was wrong. Maybe a few people needed a good jolt though that might have been going through tough times. Only God knows that. LOL. Many were going to church TO GET JOLTED and that is wrong. Seeking the gift rather than the giver. Barking like dogs or vomiting in the Spirit, that was going way too far. There are many doctrinally sound people in pentecostalism. Men like David Wilkerson who God used mightily in this last century. there is a sound church up where I live that is old school assembly of God before most of them went off their rocker.
In saying that, I am okay with some full preterism, a lot of partial preterism, and open to A-millennialism for certain reasons and because of certain passages and exegetical interpretation. I have another channel that got shadow banned as soon as I started it and wrote about 200 articles blowing pre-trib and dispensational theology out of the water very easily as I was trying to wake up pastors so they would prepare their flocks for persecution. Now I studied a lot of the 6 main views of end times and have come to the conclusion that everyone knows almost nothing…. …unless of course DUAL PROPHECY exists. For example although full and partial preterism answer half or more of the questions that totally contradict the Jesuit doctrine of full futurism, there are some questions it does not and can’t seem to answer unless Revelation and some toher passages have a dual meaning or continued menaing. For example, you did have TWO antichrists in the first century whcih were Nero whose name added up to 666 and you had the Jewish Johanan Levi who SAT in the temple when it was destoryed in AD 70. He was the leader of one of the three factions of the Zealots. his name added up to 666 also and he sat int he temple. Did he declare himself to be God? I can’t find anything historical on that but one minister said Josephus said he did. I haven’t found it yet so I don’t want to say he was the antichrist and Caesar Nero second in line. But it is possible. Then the historicist view seems very relevant as we had the Roman CAtholic Chruch evolve out of the Edict of Milan of AD 313 although the first person named a Pope wasn’t until the 6th or 7th century. The tiara hat (or trimple crown hat; not the common mitre hat that many wear) that the Pope wears on occassion has the writing Vicarius Felei Dei on it and it adds up to 666 in 2 if not the three main Biblical languages. ALL the Protestant Reformers taught that the office of the papacy was the seat of antichrist. So here we have the full preterist/partial preterist view that works well with the first century, then we have the historicist view work very well especially from around AD 1100 to AD 2000+ with the Catholic Church still stealing land form Protestants in certain countries and possibly killing some but that is like impossible to prove over the last 100 years. I believe there is what I would call a PARTIAL futurist view that our generation will go through and is beginning to go through. it only makes sense that God would have had His word apply to all generations in some way or another. This is known as Dual Prophecy or at least I am calling it that.
There surely is a lot of evil that exploded on this planet in a short period time. Could Satan have been loosed for a season? Just a thought. Now if that creating massive chaos in the world is the Hegelian Dialectic going on that the new world order is doing and using to get people so divided and sick and then they drop the modern Judaism (non-Biblical) Noahide laws on us, they will have won. Beware of these laws that every US President signed since Ronald Reagan. It sounds good on the surface but the sub laws call for beheading of Christians if they claim Jesus is God. The rabbis call that partnering. We have already had many Christians in the Hebrew Roots Movement deny the trinity and some have left Jesus altogether and converted to judaism. they committed the unpardonable sin trying to go back to be saved by law-keeping. I have seen Christians 40 years in the Lord get into that movement. I don’t know any that denied His name yet though. There definitely is an apostasy going on. Nice to meet you. How long have you been a Christian? You sound pretty sound.
He's 100% right. Pre-trib is not in the Bible. It's a nice idea, but it's not true. It's escapology, not eschatology.
I use the following comments from an article by David Petterson because I agree with his stand on the subject of pre tribulational rapture of the church and the fact that you incorrectly stated that this doctrine had its source in the studies of John Darby and not before the early 1800s. Please don't make statements that aren't true. These are just a few in a long list of people who recognised the concept of a catching away of the body of Christ before the tribualation. "Early Witnesses
After the time of the apostles, a number of writings indicate belief in the imminence of Christ’s return, which is consistent with pre-tribulationism. Clement of Rome (35-101), Ignatius of Antioch (died 110), The Didache (a late first-century anonymous Christian treatise), The Epistle of Pseudo-Barnabas (circa 70-130), and The Shepherd of Hermas (second century) all reference Christ’s imminent return.[2] Even though it appears that the apostolic fathers were largely post-tribulational (because they believed the persecution they were enduring was the tribulation itself), they held to the doctrine of imminency. J. Barton Payne (a post-tribulationist) concluded that “belief in the imminence of the return of Jesus was the uniform hope of the early church.”[3]
But it appears that Irenaeus of Lyon (120-202) was a pre-tribulationist. Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp (who was a disciple of the apostle John) and articulated his eschatological views in Against Heresies, Book 5. First, he referred to Enoch’s translation and Elijah’s being “caught up” as previews of the Rapture. “For Enoch, when he pleased God, was translated in the same body in which he did please Him, thus pointing out by anticipation the translation of the just. Elijah, too, was caught up [when he was yet] in the substance of the [natural] form; thus exhibiting in prophecy the assumption of those who are spiritual, and that nothing stood in the way of their body being translated and caught up.”[4] Second, Irenaeus refers to the Church’s being “caught up” before the tribulation. “And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, ‘There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be’ (Mat 24:21). For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”[5] The italicized “this” in his quotation is clearly a reference to the tribulation, which he then introduces.
*_There are things which must take place_* before the church rises (with immortal spiritual bodies, 1 Corinthians 15:42-54) to meet Jesus "in the air" (1 Thessalonians 4:17) "at the last trump" (1 Corinthians 15:52). We can look for those things. Here's one, mentioned by the apostle Paul:
■ "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4)
Yes, the "man of sin" - the "son of perdition" - will appear before the church is taken up. This is a reference to the "beast" who will reign for 42 months (Revelation 13:5). Paul describes his reign:
■ "Even him, whose coming is after [or like] the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders" (2 Thessalonians 2:9).
Alongside the beast will be a miracle-working "false prophet":
■ "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.
And he deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live." (Rev 13:13,14)
(side note: "maketh fire come down from heaven" sounds similar to what the prophet Elijah did in the Old Testament (1 Kings 18, 2 Kings 1). This "false prophet" may be claiming he *_is_* Elijah, or may be claiming to have the authority of Elijah by virtue of the fact "he maketh fire come down from heaven." Lesson learned ahead of time: don't be deceived by miracles.)
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There are more signs to look for before the church rises to meet Jesus. We know that the church is changed to "incorruptible" at Jesus' return for His church. This change happens "at the last trump":
■ "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
"At the last trump" . . . so what about the "trumps" or trumpet-soundings *_before_* that "last trump"??? Can we look for them? Yes.
That "last trump" is the seventh trumpet sounding (Revelation 11:15). These 7 trumpet soundings make up the 7th "seal" or 7th group of events (Revelation 8:1,2). (Just as 7 trumpets preceded the fall of Jericho, the last-days 7 "trumpets" precede the fall of "Babylon the Great" - this world's systems - Rev 18).
The point is this: the 6 trumpets that sound *_before_* the 7th trumpet *_all have events associated with_* *_them_* (Revelation 8:2 up to 11:15) which must take place before the 7th trumpet. We should look for those events to occur before the church is taken up.
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So, does the church rise before, or after, the tribulation? The church rises after the tribulation but before the wrath of God is poured out. Sadly, many make the mistake of assuming the tribulation *_is_* the wrath of God, but it is not.
With four simple steps we can determine whether the "rapture" (rising to meet Jesus) takes place before, or during, or after the tribulation.
1. According to Matthew 24:29 the sun is darkened "immediately after" the tribulation:
■ "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"
2. According to Revelation 6:12 the sun is darkened at the opening of the sixth seal.
■ "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places." (Revelation 6:12-14)
So we know that the tribulation is over at the opening of the sixth seal, when the sun is darkened.
3. The resurrection and rapture take place "at the last trump" (1 Corinthians 15:52) . . . at the seventh of the seven trumpet soundings that comprise the *_seventh_* seal. The apostle Paul describes this in 1 Corinthians 15:50-54:
■ "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." (1 Corinthians 15:50-54)
And here is another account, in 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17:
■ "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16,17)
4. "Immediately after" the tribulation, the sixth-seal darkening of the sun and moon take place, followed by all the remaining events of the sixth seal (Revelation 6:13 through 7:17). And after that, the first six trumpets of the *seventh* seal (Revelation 8:1 through 11:14) must take place. At the sounding of the "last trump," the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the resurrection and rapture take place.
Obviously, then, the resurrection and rapture are post-tribulation.
Note: Many make incorrect assumptions about the tribulation, thinking it is the wrath of God, or that it is the reign of the beast. It is neither. God's wrath is poured out at the end of the reign of the beast; we know this because it is poured out "upon the men which had the mark of the beast" (Revelation 16:2). In fact, the impending wrath of God is *_announced_* as part of the 7th trumpet . . . the wrath is being announced (Revelation 11:18) even as the church is being taken up. The church obviously will not experience the wrath of God.
The tribulation is not the wrath. The tribulation is over earlier, when the sun is darkened at the opening of the _sixth_ seal. So, what is the tribulation? Apparently, it's a time world war and calamity, so bad that unless it were "cut short" no one would survive (Matthew 24:21,22).
Nailed it. POST TRIB-PRE WRATH 💯
"I began to notice that it did not fit..."
When verses are read closely and understood in context, pre-trib is the ONLY thing that fits.
1. The rapture must come just before wrath, according to Paul.
2. Wrath will begin at the 6th seal in Revelation 6.
3. This is confirmed at the 5th seal martyrs of the church age. They are told that judgment will not begin until the FINAL martyr is killed as they all were, as church age martyrs. The next thing John wrote is the 6th seal that begins judgment. The church is now waiting at 5th seal, waiting for that final martyr.
4. The "tribulation" or the 70th week will begin at the 7th seal and with the first trumpet judgment.
5. Since 6 always comes before 7 in counting, the rapture is guaranteed to be pre-trib.
6. There will be signs in the sun and moon (probably total eclipses so visible) BEFORE the 6th seal start of God's wrath.
7. There will be very different signs seen just before Christ's coming (Rev. 19) seven years later, to Armageddon.
8. Note carefully, these will be TWO VERY DIFFERENT signs, for TWO very different events, and will be separated by over 7 years. (Pre-wrath theory morphs these two different signs into one. They also attempt to move the 6th seal out of is pre-trib place to somewhere in the last half of the week.
9. Always know, ANY theory that must rearrange Revelation will be proven wrong.
10. If we leave Revelation as written, and understand it, The pre-trib rapture (between the 5th and 6th seals) will END the church age and CAUSE a certain martyr to be that final martyr. THEN God begins the Day of the Lord at the 6th seal, and a few days later, will begin the time of Jacob's trouble at the 7th seal and with the first trumpet judgment.
Watch "Who Changed the Sabbath" by CD Brooks
According to Paul, we will judge angels. When does that happen? I don't see how that happens at the end of the Tribulation since lucifer and his angels have already been kicked out of heaven at the halfway point, which implies they've already been judged.
How can the seals, trumpets and bowls happen together when the trumpets are what is written inside a book sealed with seven seals? The seals must be opened first so that the book can be opened to reveal the trumpet judgments. I believe the entire 70th week is written inside the book. The opening of the seals covers the entire church age, up to the 6th seal that is opened after the rapture. That seal starts wrath, and the church is not destined for wrath.
Seals contain the trumpets. I think we are gathered to Jesus after the 6th trumpet at the last 7th. Just like it says the mystery of God that was revealed to the prophets . We can be on earth and not endure wrath. Also when Jesus comes time stops so we dont understand that and how is the marriage fit in and how do we escape. We have to believe even if it doesn't comprehend to our minds. Tell me that God can't protect us even in tribulation? How did he protect Daniel and his 3 friends in the fire.? We say impossible, God says nothing is impossible .
GOD says he will protect us and we try to find a way how, but that's not our problem he will do it in a way that doesn't cross our mind
@@creat-test
It would be more real to say that the seals are sealing a book, and when the seals are all opened so that the book can be opened, to reveal the 7 angels receiving their trumpets. (I believe the entire 70th week is written inside the book.)
What is the MYSTERY that chapter 10 tells us will happen at the 7th trumpet? All we need do is READ at the 7th trumpet and see what will happen. It is a PROPERTY CLOSING that will take place in the court room of heaven. The Kingdoms of the world are taken from the devil and given back to Jesus Christ, the legal owner. We must ask, what has changed to cause this ownership change?
Adam's 6000 year lease will EXPIRE when the 7th trumpet sounds. Suddenly the devil will find that the lease he usurped has expired! Suddenly the devil will have no more legal hold to the earth. This is the MYSTERY: that Satan has been the god of this world since Adam.
"Tell me that God can't protect us even in tribulation?"
God has already TOLD us that the saints, those that love Jesus, will be OVERCOME. How is anyone going to override or make of no effect the written word of God? The saints are going to be murdered-beheaded. Of course God does not want those that love Him beheaded. That is why He has an ESCAPE plan! I am amazed that people fight against the very plans God has make to take us out.
@@creat-test
"I think we are gathered to Jesus after the 6th trumpet at the last 7th. "
Paul is the only writer of the NT who received a revelation of the rapture and wrote that the rapture was a MYSTERY up until then. That means ONLY Father God knew about the rapture until to when Paul wrote it. That means even Jesus knew nothing about it until after He rose from the dead.
So, did Paul tell us WHEN the rapture would be? I think he did. The rapture will come JUST before the start of the Day of the Lord or the Day of His wrath. If we look in Revelation, wrath begins at the 6th seal, so Paul's rapture much come just before the 6th seal.
I believe this is confirmed when John saw the just raptured church right after the 6th seal as that great crowd, too large to number.
We are all ONE in Christ. We are either grafted into ONE Vine or not. There are not TWO peoples of God. One of the things no one is talking about is the blasphemy of the dispensational premill view of going back to animal sacrifices.
@OldEnoughToKnowBetter like the name of your channel. I feel that same way. If you teach on Trinity Broadcast Network, something is wrong with your character. That is the beef I have with DJ, an Charles Stanley. You are giving credence to all the really heretical teachers on there by you teaching on there (if you are credible) unless of course you yourself agree with the other’s heresies too. Maybe DJ is a closet word of faither, or prosperity pimp like Copeland and Klepto Dollar. Who knows. That channel didn’t like when a real teacher went on there in the mid-80’s and exposed Hagin and Copeland’s New Age teachings. Remember that? Bible answer man Dr. Walter Martin. Isn’t DJ a Dallas Theological Seminary grad?
@OldEnoughToKnowBetter
David attended Dallas Theological Seminary. He received his Master’s degree in Theology in 1967.
Many if not most of the modern famous pre-trib teachers are graduates of Dallas Theological Seminary. This school was started by one of Scofield's elders. They propagated the pre-trib and dispensational nonsense far more than any other Bible college. Far more. John Walvoord was the Dean of DTS for a long time. I believe Tim Lahaye, Hal Lindsay and Dr. Thomas Ice are all graduates of DTS also. Most Bible colleges indoctrinate not educate. it's fine if all the doctrine you are taught is doctrinal, if it is not, than we spread error.
I might write a book on the history of dispyism and pre-trib rapture. I started another youtube channel but they shadowbanned me immediately for some of the things that I said that exist today in the church that propagates war in the world which is a direct result of dispensationalism. Dispensationalism was started by a Jesuit priest of the Counter Reformation in the late 1700's, not John Darby. His name was Manual LaCunza and he wrote under a false pen name passing himself off as a messianic Jew or messianic rabbi. HIs pen name was Messianic Juan Josephat Ben Ezra. The deception was early on. this tells me the vast majority know almost nothing about these doctrines' history. Many hate me for exposing the lies in it. And it is a salvation issue also to teach dispyism for two reasons. It teaches works salvation in all but one of their dispensations which is Biblically false and it also teaches going back to animal sacrifices as a good thing in their modern dispy premill view. You can't get any more heretical than this unless of course if you reject the divinity of Christ Jesus. Rejecting the blood of Jesus not being good enough in a 1,000 year reign of Jesus on earth is rank blasphemy and contradicts the Book of Hebrews and countless (using hyperbole here) passages in other books.
God Bless. Glad to see God is opening many eyes about these things.
@OldEnoughToKnowBetter The Bible and 1,800 years of teaching that contradicts isn't good enough? I don't know why pre-trib dispies think we don't know what they teach. We know their doctrine better than they do. They eisogete. We exegete. We use clear verses they use unclear verses to prove their point. Oh well. What web page is this?
@@sacredcowtipper1378 The preTrib doctrine is straight out of the Kabbalah (also rooted in the Jesuits). Look into US seminary donations (by the mega millions to DTS) by Chabad, the leading Kabbalists. They're almost all bought.
@@SB-rb8lt Hello, not sure what you are saying. Do you have a copy of the exact kabbalah document of pretrib? I have never heard of that. I know futurism started with the two jesuits ribera and bellermine in the late 1500's and dispensationalism was first spoken of by Jesuit lacunza in the late 1700's. pretrib rapture i thought was spring of 1830 with Margarette MacDonald's vision and prophetic utterance?
Never heard of it being in the kabbalah literature. Would love to have that for evidence. Paul did talk about the Jewish fables.
Basically, Daniel 12:2 almost sounds like Rev. 20:12-15... but not quite... why?... because Rev. 20:12-15, which focuses more on the "SECOND DEATH" which we all know as the "eternal Death Punishment" of God to those whose names will not be written on the Book of Life, we found out that the Book of Life has 2 Volumes. The Bible narrates that when the Book was opened then another Book was opened... Therefore, the "Book of Life" has 2 volumes, which are the Book of the 1st & 2nd Resurrection of the Dead... and the Book of the Living composed of "BEFORE and AFTER" the 1000 years of Christ's reign on Earth (old/new)... Those with Immortal Bodies after the 1st Resurrection of the Dead and the Rapture of the Living, the Second Death will have no POWER over them... that is why we (Christians) of today must pray that we may be included either in the 1st Resurrection of the dead (beheaded without the mark of the beast) or Rapture of the Living (survivors of the great tribulation without the mark of the beast)...
Remember, during the 1000 years reign of Christ, both "Mortal Humans" and Immortal Humans" will co-exist for 1000 years... but both will not intermingle (intermarriage) with each other... the Number of Immortal Human beings will stay the same serving Christ Jesus during millennial years... but the Mortal Humans will start to grow bigger and bigger perhaps into Billions of Population around the world again... Statistically shows that in 10th Cent. A.D. the World Population was about 500 to 750 Million only, after 1000 years, today 2022 A.D. the population grew to almost 8-Billion People around the world... With modern technology at hand, it might be repeated again.
Then, at the end of 1000 years, Satan and His Angels will be free for a while to deceive the NATION into Battle again (sounds like "History repeats itself," as a figure of speech)... there will be "NEW SETS" of Living and Dead Mortal Humans during this period that may or may not be written in the Books of Life both for the New Living and New Dead... I hope you get my point... or do I need to elaborate more?... Again, we do not need the I.Q. of Einstein to understand and comprehend this matter, unless we totally have a poor I.Q...
I DO believe in a pretrib rapture, but I also believe that many are confusing this event with the second coming.
This "thief in the night" scenario is in my understanding, the moment the last person on Earth accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior and God only knows when that happens!
Once we get to Heaven, we will receive our rewards, attend the marriage supper of the Lamb and perhaps spend the remaining days being prepped for His second coming!
We are Not going to See any "Pre-Trib" Rapture, as Acts.3:20-21 tells us that; .."Christ Must REMAIN in Heaven, Until the Restitution of all Things" ( which cannot begin until the "LAST DAY", when Christ will bind SATAN and Kill the Antichrist, and the False Prophet !! Which in Turn, REFUTES This FREEMASON John Darby's "Pre-Trib" Rapture Theory !!!!!!
Furthermore, if you Claim to be a Christian, then you should Rather BELIEVE the Words of Jesus in Jn.6:40, More than the Deceived and indoctrinated "Pseudo Scholar" and PULPITEER that you are listening to !! And Jesus said in Jn.6:40, that He would "RAISE-UP, ( Resurrect and RAPTURE ) those that the FATHER has Given Him, On the "LAST DAY". ( speaking of the "LAST DAY" of this Present EVIL AGE, Gal.1:4 and Eph.1:21, that Coincides with the "Last Day" of the Tribulation !!
Morgan Sorensen ( Biblical theologian )
Donald Mach In the book of Revelation what is Jesus described doing? What are his actions?
If you continue reading it says that it will come like a thief in the night for the unbelievers
@OldEnoughToKnowBetter I like how he say I will never erase their names from the book of life
@OldEnoughToKnowBetter what do people mean when they say "I received Jesus into my heart?"
When the bible narrated about the 1st Resurrection of the dead in Christ "will rise first,"... logically and reasonably, if the Bible mentioned the English words "will rise first," as a "conditional statement"... it is understood there will rise a "second" and "Last" to rise from the 1st Resurrection of the dead in Christ... If the Bible narrates that the "1st resurrection of the dead rise in Christ." (w/o conditional statement) it follows and shows that there is no other dead going to rise up other than those with Christ only... logically speaking... we are not talking about the "Rapture of the Living," we are talking about the "Rapture of the Dead in Christ."
Analogy... Our teacher taught us when we are going to have a speech or statement and we make the "Conditional Statement" words, for example, "First of all,... etc., etc.," it must come with a Secondary conditional statement as "Second," or "Third" and so on, till we come to a point to "close" the conditional statement using the words, "Lastly/Finally" to finish up (close) the "conditional statement" of the sentence/speech... the same analogy... "will Rise First"... it is a conditional statement...
There is a big difference between... "WILL RISE FIRST"... and... "WILL RISE, FIRST" (w/ a "comma")... just like, Christ said, "Today, you will be...etc."...NOT..."Today you will be...etc."
Brethren in Christ, we do not need the I.Q. of Einstein, to understand and comprehend this matter, unless we have a very low I.Q.? ... Peace be with you all... Amen.
From 2 Thess 2 we know the"restrainer":
- was a 'he" (person)
- was restraining "now" (not future)
- "he" needed to be taken out of the way.
- Paul wouldn't write down "his" name, but he spoke about him in person (must be an enemy of the churches).
The restrainer was the Emperor.
Eventually, the Roman Empire was replaced with the Holy Roman Empire, the seat of AC.
An emperor cannot restrain the Satan. No human can. The church cannot restrain the most powerful created being. Holy Spirit cannot be the restrainer as God is omnipresent.
There is only one being in the Bible who restrained the Satan, and only one being specifically charged with the well-fare of Israel. Paul did not name him because the church already knew. There was no need to name him. He is mentioned in Daniel 12:1 It was a long -accepted fact that Michael restrained the evil one until he must stand aside.
"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of your people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.”
Michael restrains the one who seeks to destroy Israel. When the time comes for the events that will bring the final redemption of Israel's remnant, Michael must stand aside.
Michael is a warrior who battled Principalities. The Bible speaks of a “Prince of Persia” (Daniel 10:13) that the Archangel Michael battled against and that Michael will assist against the “Prince of Greece” (Daniel 10:20-21).
The book of Revelation fits adds some light. On earth the Tribulation begins when the restrain stops battling the Dragon in Heaven. Rev 12:7 "And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they [a]did not prevail, nor was a place found for [b]them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
Emperor Claudius..restrainer in Latin is spelled very similar to Claudius..I believe it is Claudere which means to shut up..to block..could Paul be saying that Claudius is blocking or delaying or restraining Nero from becoming Emperor..it is at least plausible that this is exactly what Paul is doing..
@@masonbooth2363 It is the Dragon whom the restrainer is blocking. Satan is the most powerful created being. No human can restrain him. Not even a human pretending to be a god. The only being ever recorded to restrain the Satan was Michael, and that was only in the name of God and with angelic helpers.
When you compare Paul's statement to Daniel 12:1 We see a similar scenario. It says that Michael, the Great Prince who stands for the people of God, will stand aside and then the great Tribulation begins.
Paul did not tell the church the name of the restrainer because they already knew. They were OT literate, and it was a Jewish teaching that Michael protected them, but that he would stand aside when the time of God's revenge came.
In Rev 12:7 We see Michael and his angels locked in battle with the Dragon. When Michael ends the battle, the Dragon is cast to earth with "great wrath" to make war against the people of God.
@@stephenszucs8439 what about 2Thess 2.6-7..who or what is holding back the man of lawlessness who most interpret to be the antichrist..it is Claudius..restraining Nero from taking the throne..but he would be revealed..it is not by accident that the rise of Nero and the destruction of Jerusalem follow each other..fits nicely into a partial preterist exhatology..not so much for dispensationalist..
@@masonbooth2363 Michael is the Restrainer. Nero was a type of the Antichrist, but he did not match every single prophesy. The events of 70 CE did fulfill most of the Olivet discourse prophesies, but not all. Not 100%. It is not rare for prophesies to have a nearer, partial fulfillment and then a later one that meets every criteria. Bible stories do show patterns and repetitions.
The Antichrist is called "The Assyrian." Assyria is modern Turkey. The final beast of Daniel is the same Beast from the Sea as Rev. describes. That Beast is Middle Eastern. That Beast is a revival of an ancient Middle Eastern Empire that had once crushed and totally devoured the first three, Babylon, Media-Persia, and Assyria. That cannot be Rome. The 4th beast of Daniel revives in the exact same character as it had originally. It is the 7th Horn in Daniel, which revives and is the 8th horn. Since Rome is universally accepted and the 6th horn, it cannot be the 7th and 8th. That means that the 4th Beast came after Rome. That would be the Ottomans. Today Erdogan of Turkey is reviving the Ottoman Empire as the "Islamic Caliphate." The stated purpose is "jihad." Islam is unchanged since it crushed and devoured the Middle East and beyond.
Only Islam routinely beheads those who will not convert.
Only Islam has a system and history of marking people to determine if they are Muslims. Those who do not convert are faced with severe personal taxes and bans on working, thus on buying and selling.
Only Islam is antichrist by both definitions.
Only Islam has an image that represents the religion and speaks. When it speaks everyone in hearing must bow and recite a prayer to Allah.
The last Trumpet happens every year. It’s the Feast of Trumpets, there are 100 shofar blasts over a two day feast. It is Gods appointed times with mankind
Read Dr Andrew Corbett's book ''The most embarrassing book in the Bible'' which is the which I consider to be the most well researched and authentic exposition of Revelation
Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order )
Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.
He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.
The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.
The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.
He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?
He comes on a horse in chapter 19.
Chapter 20?
Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1?
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.
Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked?
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner.
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.
The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.
@@Used777_07 Revelation 11:15-18 is the 7th trumpet and the time of the judgment of the dead. It is foretold in Revelation 10:7.
Elijah, the coming End-time prophet will open up the sealed parts of Revelation and the sealed parts of Daniel. Why? Because no one is able to do so until God says so...it is recorded in the Last Book, the "Little Scroll" of Revelation 10, published under the title "Must Believe In Jesus' Name" by Ricky Eugene Woods.
In Rev. 20:4... Who are those who sat on the Throne and were given the "Power to Judge" because they have "Proclaimed the Truth about Christ and the Words of God"?... Answer... These People are the TWO (2) Witnesses who were martyred (executed by the Unholy Trinity), based on Rev. 11, they "Proclaimed the Truth about Christ and the Words of God" (for 3-1/2 years).... exactly the same... Only those 2 Witnesses of God, can truly know the Truth about Christ and the Words (scriptures) of God...
Apostle John also saw the "SOULS" (killed) of those executed/beheaded by the Unholy Trinity without the mark of the Beast... WHO are they? ... These are the Martyred People (Beheaded w/o the mark of the beast) from God's Church that were mentioned in Rev. 6:11, to wait for a while till the "Full Numbers" of Martyrdom are completed... The completion/fulfillment is written in Rev. 20:4...
These are NOT "Tribulation Saints," meaning Left-Behind Christians that were NOT included in the Rapture... If we are "Left behind People" from the Rapture, this means only one thing, we are not worthy to be called People of God (facts and truth)... The Truth of the Matter is that these "SOULS" (killed) seen by Apostle John were from the Church of God worthy to PROCLAIM because they really know the Truth about Christ and the words of God... they will face and will be executed/beheaded (killed) w/o the mark of the beast during the Great Tribulation (Persecution) Period... While those People of God who survived the Great Persecution/Great Tribulation will be Snatched-away (Raptured) together with the 1st Resurrection of the Dead Saints, all will be written their names in the Book of Life (meaning SAVED)...
God will take/get the full completion (total number) of Martyrs from His own Church who will face the Great Tribulation and not from some Left-behind Christians or Atheists... People who will be left behind from the Rapture are not Real Christians... The left behind People (Fake Christians, Atheists, Pagans, and other Religions) if they survive the Battle of Armageddon will all LIVE and DIE as Mortal Human Beings during the1000 year reign of Christ, and they are the ones who will start again the procreation of "Mortal Human Beings" for 1000 years to fill the world with mortal people again... Immortal Humans dress in white robes and Motal Humans will co-exist during Christ's reign.
These Mortal Humans who DIED during the beginning of the creation of the world till the 1000 years reign of Christ including the Battle of the Nation will wait for the 2nd Resurrection of the Dead on the Judgment Day of God and their names may or may not be written in the Book of Life, some will be Saved and perhaps most of them will be punished in eternal Fire of Hell together with the Fallen Angels... Amen.
As a Christian, it is not our duty to convince someone to believe or not, due to man's freewill... for God/Christ's instruction was to proclaim/tell the Truth based on the Words of God (passages from the Bible), and God will do the rest from opening/changing their Hearts and Mind... I pray that may God opens up your heart and mind about this matter, in Jesus' Name, for there is a saying, "For a CLOSED mind and heart person, no answer possible... but for an OPENED heart and mind person, no possible answer needed"... Amen.
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Daniel 12: 1,2 & 3.
Case closed.
Need more?
II THESSALONIANS 2: 1 thru 3
The tribulation is ONLY chapter 6 of Revelation. If you read the last sentence it tells us we are going then into the wrath of God. The reference to a 'Generation" in Mt. 24 is improperly interpreted. If you go to the original Hebrew text, it refers to a 49-year jubilee which began in 1973. There is no "millenial reign" as every reference in Rev. 20 to a thousand years is to a "chillioi" and not to a "chilias" and thus the thousands are plural and not singular. I appreciate your bringing attention to the topic. We need everyone to know how short time is.
And the trumpets, the rapture is at the last trumpet, then the wrath comes
Yes, chapter 6 of revelation and Matthew 24 are same events. The gathering together of the saints is same analogy as God sheltering us in the ark during the flood. Noah didn't escape tribulation, he went through tribulation. The wrath of God brought judgment to the sinful world. Just as great tribulation in Matthew 24 and revelation 6. The danger in believing pretribulation rapture lie. Is the pretribbers are expecting jesus anytime. No warning, secret coming and imminent. So when the great tribulation starts. And the antichrist comes on the scene. God said he'll send strong delusions! The decieved believers may very well except satan the son of perdition as the messiah. Especially since they'll say, this can't be the antichrist. We're still here, not raptured. 2 thessalonians says it perfectly. Let no man deceive you by any means. That day shall not come except there come a falling away first and the man of sin be revealed the son of perdition. Falling away first! Aposticia. One would have to be in christ to fall away from christ. Falling away can't mean unbelievers. Their already away! I know the truth. You know the revelation of truth. Sad that so many believe lies.
Tribulation is judgement punishment. Why would he punish Christians, just like why did he save Noah duh
Tribulation and wrath are not synonymous. Even if you look up the Greek words, they are two separate words. Tribulation is Satan's war on the saints. Wrath is God's war on Satan/wicked. Two different things. And Noah was not "raptured" up to heaven. He was amid the judgment and protected.
"The book of Revelation is not arranged chronologically..." I disagree.
Here is an outline of the Book of Revelation.
: Introduction.
: Messages to churches.
: show us the context and timing of the first seals: 32 AD.
•Jesus not seen at the right hand of the father-still on earth.
•Jesus was not found worthy to take the book in the first search-before Jesus prevailed over death.
•The Holy Spirit was there in the throne room in chapter 4-before Jesus ascended to send Him down.
•Time passes and then Jesus prevailed over death.
•Jesus then found worthy to take the book.
•Jesus ascends back into the throne room.
•Jesus sends Holy Spirit down: circa 32 AD.
•Jesus takes the book: Circa 32 AD.
: starts at the same time: 32 AD, when Jesus got the book into His hands: it is the start of the church age.
•Seal 1: the church sent out with Gospel.
•Seals 2-4: Satan’s attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. God has allowed Satan to use wars, famines, pestilences, and wild beasts.
•Seal 5: The church-age martyrs. They are told judgment won’t start until the full number of martyrs has been killed. The pre-trib rapture will end the church age and trigger the start of the Day of the Lord.
•Seal 6 then starts the Day of the Lord when Judgment begins.
: is an intermission: God must see two things done before He can start the hurt on earth (judgment as in the 70th week).
• 1: The 144,000 must be sealed before the Week can begin.
• 2: The church must be seen safely in heaven before the first event of wrath.
: Seventh Seal, the start of the 70th week, and the start of the hurt on earth. Hurt comes with Wrath. The trumpets start with Wrath. Four trumpets sound in chapter 8.
: The hurt continues with trumpets #5 and #6. All trumpets come with Wrath.
: Intermission: things have to be done or said before the abomination that will divide the week and starts the days of great tribulation.
: The man of sin moves to Jerusalem with Gentile armies who will trample the Holy City-just days before He will enter the temple. The city will be trampled-probably by his Gentle armies-for the next 42 months.
• The two witnesses suddenly appear on earth, just 3½ days before the man of sin will enter the temple, and cause the week to be divided. They will testify for the next 1260 days
•The 7th trumpet will sound when the man of sin enters the temple and causes the abomination that Jesus spoke of.
•The first 6000 years are over, Adam's lease ends, and a property closing takes place in heaven: the kingdoms of earth are taken from Satan and given to Jesus.
: God introduces John to the dragon: mentioned 32 times in this chapter:
•The first five verses are a history lesson for John, written as a parenthesis, about the days of Jesus’ birth; how Satan tried to kill Jesus as a child.
•Seconds after the abomination: those in Judea begin to flee - for the next 1260 days.
•War in heaven: Satan has no more legal hold
•on earth (He had usurped Adam's lease) and is now cast down from the heavenly realms. He loses his wings.
•Satan goes after those who have fled but discovers God is protecting them, (and will for the next 3½ times) so he goes after the remnant of those who love Jesus, a remnant because the main load went out with the pre-trib rapture.
: God introduces John to the Beast and False Prophet - who will cause those days of great tribulation: great pressure upon people.
•The man of sin who entered the temple in chapter 11 and declared he is God, has now turned Beast. John sees him arising.
•He is given 42 months of authority. (The next 42 months from this point on.)
•The False prophet shows up.
•God shows us what they will do: cause the days of great tribulation: they will create an image and a mark, and force people to receive it. (They accomplish these things during the next chapters up to chapter 16.)
: God must warn people before they accept the mark: if they do, they will be doomed to the lake of fire. Three Angels give three warnings.
•God also warns people to worship God and fear Him. After the warning, the Beast and False prophet will begin forcing the mark upon people: they will either take the mark or lose their heads.
•These are the days of great tribulation that Jesus spoke of.
: the beheaded (from the days of great tribulation Jesus spoke of) begin to show up in heaven. Time passes as the murder of the saints reaches a frenzy during the days of great tribulation.
: Great Tribulation continues, but God pours out the vials filled with His wrath to shorten those days of great tribulation.
•The two witnesses are killed-3½ days before the end of the week.
•The 7th vial ends the 70th week.
•The Old Testament saints are resurrected “on the last day” along with the Two Witnesses and those beheaded by the Beast.
: information on the destruction of the great whore Babylon, the city of Jerusalem, while the Beast and False Prophet are there deceiving the world.
: Babylon is destroyed. Israel and Jerusalem are under attack. Evil spirits have caused the leaders of any country with a standing army to send troops to Israel. Perhaps 70 nations have sent troops. Jerusalem is nearly taken and many are led away as slaves. Millions of foreign troops are in Israel, determined to wipe her off the maps.
•Marriage and supper take place in heaven while the 42 months of authority wind down.
•Jesus returns to earth with the armies of heaven just in the nick of time. The war of Armageddon takes place.
: the start of the 1000-year reign of Christ. Satan is bound.
•Old Testament and New Testament saints are seen judging. The Beheaded are also resurrected and reign with Him.
•The 1000 reign of Christ ends. Satan is turned loose. Gog and Magog war takes place.
•Heaven and earth disappear and the time for the Great, White throne judgment comes.
End of Outline
The book flows in perfect chronology as God's plan for the world plays out. The only exception is John's used of parentheses, and when a prophecy is given by the elders.
"The 1260 days of fleeing" should be right after the man-child is caught up...." No, no, no! Jesus TELLS us when those in Judea will begin to flee; they will begin to flee the moment they seen the abomination. Paul explains that will be when the man of sin enters the new Jewish temple, into the Holy of Holies, and declares he is the God of the Jews. THEN they will flee. The 1260 days shows us that they will begin to flee at the exact midpoint of the Week. In fact, the 42 months of trampling (Rev. 11), the 1260 days of witnessing (Rev. 11) the 1260 days of fleeing (Rev. 12) the time, times and half of time of supernatural protection (Rev. 12) and finally the 42 months of authority (Rev. 13) , all show us that these chapters are MIDPOINT chapters, the midpoint of the 70th week. Flip pages to the left, as in chapters 8 through 11, and you are reading about the first half of the Week. Flip pages to the right, chapters 14 - 16, and you are reading about the last half of the Week. God once spoke to me (It sounded like an audible voice) and gave me a synopsis of Chapter 12.
"This chapter was Me introducing John to the Dragon, and in particular what the Dragon would be doing during the last half of the Week. However, I CHOSE to show John what the Dragon did when I was a small boy. Those first five verses where a 'history lesson' for John."
The first five verses were probably written as a parenthesis, outside of John's chronology. They were about the entire life of Christ in five verses. First John wrote of the constellation Virgo, and what Virgo looked like at the moment of Christ's birth. Verse 2 is about Mary having birth pains to be delivered of the Christ Child. Verse 3 and 4 is a symbolic description of the Dragon and how the Dragon tried to use King Herod to kill Jesus as a very young boy. Verse 5 is the entire life of Christ in one verse: He is caught up to heaven. These 5 verses have nothing at all to do with John's chronology. This chapter is all about the Dragon, mentioned 32 times in this one chapter.
These five mentions of a three and a half year period of time all are countdowns from the midpoint to the end of the week. The starting point of each countdown is the verse of mention. The 42 months of trampling countdown begins first, as the man of sin moves to Jerusalem with Gentile armies who will trample the city. I believe he arrives in Jerusalem around three and a half days before he will enter the temple and commit his abomination.
I think the most important theme of Revelation is worship, either of the Creator or of the beast. We are the servant of the one we obey and if we love Jesus, he tells us to keep his commandments. I think the Bible is quite clear that the handwriting of ordinances, including the yearly Sabbaths that were a shadow of the coming Christ, have been nailed to the cross. The commandments that God wrote with his finger in stone, and were placed inside the arc of the covenant, however, I believe, are still in effect, till heaven and earth should pass away. This includes the fourth commandment, which the man of sin thinks that he has changed. Dan.7:25. This topic is of such great importance to the final salvation of each of us , that I will refer you to someone who will carefully guide you through the Bible on this. Please watch Mark Woodman's video, "Who is the Antichrist". I hope that you will give it the attention that it deserves, so much is at stake.
I ended up being a believer in the pre wrath position. Pre trib just makes absolutely no sense. I see in Joel, Olivet discourse, Thess, AND Rev all five the same celestial sign of the sun darkening etc. Then Jesus sends his angels to gather his elect from the 4 winds. that is far from pre trib. Figured this didn't make sense when I was newly saved. 15 years later I am for sure no a believer int he pre trib rapture theory.
Nowhere in the Bible does it talk about 2 comings after the resurrection?
Well, what does Jesus mean when he said no one knows the day or the hour?
Then, if Thes and Cor talk about Christ coming down on the mount of olives, or the rapture happening then, well, his saying of no one knows the day or the hour falls apart.
From the time the AC makes his covenant with many FOR A WEEK, one would just have to add 2520 days,, or much simpler, 1260 days or 42 months from the time of the abomination that makes desolate would profane the temple, to know to the exact day the time of Christ's return. A simple calculator would be needed.
So, if the coming of Christ to Jerusalem will be extremely easy to figure, Jesus must have talked about another gathering, another coming, namely the rapture
My understanding is that Daniel 9:26-27 are in two parts. The first half of each is about Messiah and what He did, and the second half is about Jerusalem and her punishment for asking that His blood be upon them.
Jesus confirmed/made the covenant with the many (the Gentiles/all nations).
Jesus' death put an end to sacrifices and oblations forever.
Jerusalem would be made desolate by the Roman prince who came with his soldiers and demolished the Temple and City, and they will stay in that condition (no temple or priestly ceremonies) through to the "consummation" (Day of the Lord/Resurrection Day).
Daniel's 70th week was Jesus' ministry for 3.5 years, followed by the Disciples preaching the Gospel exclusively to Israel for 3.5 years. At the final rejection of their Messiah, the Gospel was given to the Gentiles (Acts 28:27-28).
The Bible refers to it as "The Day of the Lord." It is *not* a 24-hour period. It is a time period. Nobody can know the day or hour it begins. We can calculate the end point once the Abomination is set up.
@@stephenszucs8439 The abomination of desolation happened in 70 AD according to Luke 21:20, (and as prophesied in Dan 9:26-27).
For most of Matthew 24, Jesus was speaking to the Disciples and that generation - look at all the verses that say when *you see,* He was telling that generation they would *see the abomination in 70 AD,* not us.
Luke 21:20 KJV
And *when ye shall see* Jerusalem compassed with armies, then *know that the desolation* thereof is nigh.
Matthew 24:15 KJV
*When ye therefore shall see" the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
@@Used777_07 AD 70 was an immediate, partial fulfillment, or foreshadow. It cannot be the full fulfillment. The Jews did not regain control of Israel, the Beast was not killed by the Lord, the Dragon was not chained where he couldn't cause trouble, and it was more than 1,000 years ago.
@@stephenszucs8439 Not sure I understand all you wrote, but Satan is chained now and has been during the Millennium (the *symbolic* time between Messiah's first and second comings) - meaning Satan is being prevented from gathering the nations to war at Armegeddon against Christ prematurely.
When he is loosed, *he immediately deceives the nations* and gathers them for the final war.
According to Rev. 20:
1) Satan is bound between 1st and 2nd comings.
2) Satan is loosed.
3) Nations gather for Battle of Armegeddon.
4) Fire destroys the nations' armies.
5) Satan is thrown into the Lake of Fire.
6) White Throne judgment is held.
Revelation 20:3,7-10 KJV
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[8] And *shall go out to deceive the nations* which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, *to gather them together to battle:* the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
[9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Eschatology came from the Greek word Eschatos meaning the "LAST." ... Therefore, Eschatology is the study of the Last/Final Destination of Mankind including the End of the World... Amen,
Don't argue over this! Just share what you understand. I believe the 2 wittness will be in the 1st half 0f the tribulation and we will see the abomination that causes desolation and he will kill the 2 wittness and they will lie in the street and be resurrected and be there for the last 1/2 Also: Then if we haven't starved to death or martered from refusing the mark or refusal to bow down, at the time of reserecton/rapture God the Father will shorten those days or all will perish, after the tribulation but before the wrath the dead then the living will raise to Jesus Christ in the clouds and we will be with him for ever in our new bodes we will be the host with Jesus, (which I don't like because I want to be at peace not war), but he wheels the double edge sword not us. At the end of Wrath the Manion adorned as a bride will come down and be high enough to see the 12 apostles name on the pillars under. During the millennium he Jesus and the host/Christians will rule and reign with Jesus Christ. Your leaving out the God will shorten the time. And I haven't got a position in this for judgement and rewards. I trust in salvation only in Jesus Christ and then faith in his word that it is the way, truth and life.
"But there were also F A L S E prophets AMONG the people, even as there will be F A L S E TEACHERS AMONG YOU, who will SECRETLY BRING DESTRUCTIVE HERESIES, even denying the LORD who bought them, and BRONG ON THEMSELVES swift DESTRUCTION". (2 Peter 2:1)
"Desiring TO BE teachers of the law, UNDERSTANDING NEITHER WHAT THEY SAY NOR the things which THEY AFFIRM". (1 Timothy 1:7)
"For the SHEPHERDS HAVE BECOME DULL- HEARTED,
And HAVE NOT SOUGHT THE LORD;
Therefore THEY shall not prosper,
And ALL THEIR FLOCKS shall BE scattered". (Jeremiah 10:21)
"And He (Jesus) said: “TAKE HEED that YOU NOT BE DECEIVED. For MANY will come IN MY NAME, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore DO NOT GO AFTER THEM ." (Luke 21:8)
Problem with pretribulation rapture is God isn't a respecter of persons. If the disciples suffered tribulation for christ. Communist China killed millions for worshipping in secret caves for christ. Foxes book of martyrs was stories of saints burned alive, ripped apart by horses. Again, standing for jesus. Matthew 24 has been preached by pastors for years explaining the great tribulation the saints will endure in the last days. Yet, when Matthew 24:29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light. Then shall the sign of the son of man appear in heaven with power and great glory and shall send his angels to gather together his elect. After that tribulation!! Not before. 2 thessalonians solidifies even better. Now we beseech you brethren by the coming of our lord jesus christ and our gathering unto him that you be not soon shaken in your mind nor spirit or letter as from us that the coming of our lord is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means. That day shall not come except there come a falling away first and the man of sin be revealed the son of perdition. Come on saints! That day shall not come. What day? The rapture, coming, gathering etc. That antichrist will come first. Make war with the saints. 3.5yrs tribulation. Time, times and half a time. Or 1260days. Jesus said through much tribulation shall we enter the kingdom of heaven. It's plain heresy to believe and teach were exempt tribulation yet millions died for christ. Lastly, the great tribulation will be the most glorious time the saints will ever see Jesus in his greatest power and glory purifying his saints for eternity!! At the last trump! Not first.
OH! I muted a person yesterday. The first time I did that, but I felt she was being blasphemous. She kept exclaiming that Pre-trib was true because
God would not let the church suffer "HIS wrath." I kept showing her that the church was to be persecuted by the Dragon and the Beast, not God. She finally said that God would rapture his dear bride and then pour out his wrath on the new believers who were just saved.
@@stephenszucs8439 unfortunately she will probably except the mark of the beast. Revelation 6:12 explains what the wrath is. At the end of the great tribulation the sun becomes black as sackcloth and moon shall not give her light and stars fall from heaven. The rich men, mighty men call for the mtns to fall on them and hide them from his wrath for the day of his wrath is come. Who shall be able to bare it? There it is his wrath! Gods wrath. It's sheer ignorance to believe saints of old suffered persecution and tribulation. The apostles suffered tribulation. Jesus died tribulation. Tribulation is trials, pressure etc. If she thinks she's a special person, and God is respecter of persons. She's beyond help. Chinese to this day suffer tribulation for jesus. North Korea hate Christians. Jesus said through much tribulation shall we enter the kingdom of heaven. She's weak, privileged, in for a rude awakening. When the antichrist arrives making war with the saints. She will except the antichrist because she'll say she's still on the earth not raptured yet, so this can't be the antichrist. She's probably fully vaxxed also. Weak Christian. God's coming for a strong, triumphant and glorious church. Not a snowflake saint. Sorry to be so blunt and bold. It's truth.
@@michaelbarnes7086 I feel sad, but I can't find anything to disagree with what you say. I think that many
will fall away because they never learned to expect or accept pain. It's the Osteen effect. "God wants you to have your best life now" - said no prophet or apostle ever.
@@stephenszucs8439 absolutely 100% truth what you just said. 2 thessalonians explains to let no man deceive you by any means. That day. The gathering together unto him. Shall not come except there come a falling away first and the man of sin be revealed the son of perdition. Aposticia in greek. Falling away. One has to be in christ to fall away from christ. Let's be honest here. The vaccine mandate pushing people to surrender their liberties and comply with unconstitutional mandates in order to work. Shop at Walmart. Masked up as the Hitler children were blindfolded during operation paperclip. Experimental social indoctrination is all the mask mandates were. The elites didn't wear masks to social events. Only us dumbed down peasants did. Everything we went through over last 2yrs was tribulation. Why was she still here? That was extremely intense 2yrs. I believe we very well could be in the beginning of the 3.5yrs tribulation. I may be wrong. But claim to be saints lined up submitting their temples to Anthony fauchi vaccine. Having zero clue to what was in it. Snake venom, aborted baby cells, mrna, nano particles and hydras. Satanic serum. And my dad has been In emergency room numerous times with blood clots. I told my dad. That's what you get for not praying and having spiritual discernment. The vaccine changes your DNA. Something God gave us a divine characteristic and the vaccine changed that! He hasn't been the same since. God have mercy on your church. And society has gotten dumber and dumber. I asked my church family. Would god wear a mask?? Especially in his house? We stopped hugging and started fist bumping. We approach one another as a plague. Were supposed to come boldly before his throne with Thanksgiving. Jesus is the ressurection and great physician. We're not supposed to social distance in church!! My God. The churches are backslidden my friend. Signs in front of churches read. Forgive us God! Church now open! The church failed miserably. And millions quit coming never to return. Costco and Sam's wide open. Churches, closed. ABC store open. Churches closed. Planned parenthood open. Churches closed. See how there will be a great falling away. Sorry for my long windiness.
@@stephenszucs8439 pretribbers always cry 1 Thess 5:9 "we are not appointed unto Gods wrath" Of course we are not! We have to read that verse in context. It means we will not perish in hell but receive salvation. 1 Thess 5:1-11 is not talking about the calamities God will pour out on the earth during the tribulation, Its talking about being ready
"Nobody documented a pretrib rapture before 1830..." Perhaps you should read Pseudo Ephraem written AD 500-700.
"Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that He may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms the world? Believe you me, dearest brothers, because the coming of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see it with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: "Woe to those who desire to see the Day of the Lord!" and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins. And so, brothers, most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of this world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their hands, awaiting the empire of the Lord. "
The Seals and Trumpets and Bowls cannot be overlapping recapitulations of the same events because that would mean the 3rd Woe of 7 Bowls after the 7th Trumpet would start before the 1st and 2nd Woes of the 5th and 6th Trumpets.
Also, Darby did not invent with Dispensationalism (“Dispensationalism Before Darby” by William C. Wallace).
Nor did Darby create the pre-trib rapture. He restored what Jesus and Paul taught. God deals separately with Israel and the church as Paul detailed in Romans 11, and he said Israel is hardened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and then all Israel shall be saved. This is fulfilled in Rev 7 where the great tribulation is restrained during an Israelite revival while raptured church saints celebrate their entry into Heaven. Then the great tribulation starts at the 7th Seal, so that marks the middle not the end of Daniels’ 70th week, which means the Antichrist manifests at the temple here, the event Jesus warned everyone in Matt 24 to flee Judea. That was a Futurist teaching by the way that has yet to be fulfilled.
Absolutely nonsense
I've been studying the 1800s in the heresies therein darby not only was into mediums dreams visions and other heresy
But a little girl had that secret rapture dream you dont know what you are talking about at all just parroting what your favorite false teacher said
@@jgvtc559 , I cited objective facts, reams of archival documents published by an actual historian. You’re talking about the refuted investigative reporting of a media guy named Dave MacPherson. Why don’t you goggle his name with Disney and look at the man whose doctrine you’re supporting?
@@jgvtc559, instead of directly addressing objective facts here or in other threads, you started trolling me, so I'm letting others know that you're going on Mute.
The Seals are separate from the Trumpets and Vials. The Trumpet and Vials are, of course, sequential. We know that the Vials are last because they are called the "last plagues" (Rev 15:1). To understand what the Seals are, go to Leviticus 26:2 and read to the Chapter's end. Here we have God's plan through His prophet Moses to deal with the Hebrew nation. Seal 5 is new information not in Leviticus or the OT Prophets since the martyrs are NOT killed by God for their testimony. Seal 6 is pretty easy to get once you understand Isaiah 63:1-6 which will give you a good picture from whom the people in Seal 6 are hiding. Seal 7... I haven't read anyone who has a clue on that one. The thing to understand is that the Seals have durations that last throughout the Latter Days; from beginning to end. And we all know that War, Famine, Death and Pestilence are active today and have been since Genesis. The individual judgements of the Trumpets and Vials may have the same end point but they have different (sequential) starting points. Plus, the locusts have a specified duration of exactly 5 months whereas no other judgement has one mentioned.
@@mcgeorgerl, have you ever considered that Seals 1-4 describe God's judgment of Israel in the first century?
Did Jesus list the verses of Matthew 24 in Chronological order? If so......The rapture is after the whole world hears of Christ and the Anti-christ commits the abomination of desolation.
The whole world didn't hear of Jesus in 70 AD....the abomination of the Romans with the Temple.
According to Paul when he wrote his letter to the Colossians in AD62, he said he’d “proclaimed the gospel to every creature under heaven”...Col 1:23 ...
Jimmy Swaggert a man of GOD ????
Well, he may believe it, but he never lived it =disqualified as a minister.
"There is no way you can separate a lot of them (a coming before the trib versus a coming after)..." This is simply not true.
Paul wrote of a coming for the rapture, that would come just before the start of the Day of the Lord.
John begins the Day of the Lord at the 6th seal, before any part of the 70th week or tribulation, which will begin at the 7th seal.
Jesus spoke of his coming "after the tribulation of those days" which we also read in Revelation 19, after the week will have ended at the 7th bowl in Chapter 16.
The truth is, the bible separates the comings: one is before the tribulation (the 70th week) and one is after the tribulation.
Where people miss it: many people imagine, in error, that the cosmic signs happen only once, and that before the Day of the Lord. This is a HUGE ERROR. The truth is found clearly in the scriptures, when they are understood. There will be a sign for the Day of the Lord where the sun and moon are both visible, signs that are probably going to be total eclipses of both the sun and the moon, happening probably close together, within weeks of each other. This is the sign for the Day of the Lord and the start of God's wrath. Paul shows us that the rapture must come before this point in time.
Then there will be ANOTHER cosmic sign over seven years later. It will be the sign of total darkness, where the sun, moon and stars are invisible. Matthew's use of "Darkened" (the sun) comes from a Greek word that when it is about heavenly bodies, means the absence of light. This is talking about midnight deep in a coal mine darkness. This will be the sign for the coming of Christ to Armageddon. Pre-wrathers attempt to MORPH these two signs and comings into one, causing a very false doctrine.
PRE-TRIB RAPTURE is the most Unbiblical and the most Problematic Doctrine/Teaching of Rapture than the Mid Trib, Pre-Wrath, and Post Trib Rapture Doctrines/teachings... as I studied them all.
Paul said the dead in CHRIST rise First
John said the beheaded rise First
Daniel said Christian's and unbelievers wake together
I'm not comfortable with a doctrine that says one or two are wrong
Dead in CHRIST means tribulation saint they rise a thousand years before Christian's
1 thessalonians 4 16
Revelation 20 4-6
Daniel 12 2
It's all there in Revelation 20
@@squirreljones3595 It is true what St. Paul said, "the Dead in Christ will rise first." (future tense, not present tense), but St. Paul never said "ONLY" the Dead in Christ will rise first... if he mentioned the word "first," it does not always follow/mean that that would be the LAST... It could also mean "All Dead People of God" including Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Prophets of God, etc. will rise also but the Dead in Christ will rise first... Amen
@@jvlp2046
The only Christians that get raptured are the saints that overcome the Mark of the beast
Jesus says this in
Revelation 2
Revelation 3
Revelation 6 9
Revelation 7 14
Revelation 14 13
Revelation 15 2
Revelation 20 4-6
Christians wake up after the thousand year reign of Jesus
Daniel 12 2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting Life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
It's all there in Revelation 20
Persecution coming, Keep the Faith
Jesus is Truth
@@squirreljones3595 In the Book of Revelation 20:4... Apostle John saw Prophetic Visions that have not happened yet but in the future will happen. He saw the Souls of those Beheaded by the persecution from the Unholy Trinity (Anti-Christ/Beasts=False Prophets/Satan), those God's People who have no mark of the beast (666).
Therefore, these headed People of God (Jews and Christians) correspond to what St. Paul was saying "the Dead in Christ will rise first."... the dead Christian rise first followed by the dead Jews, then those People of God who survived (SURVIVORS) the Great Persecution from the Unholy trinity (Great Tribulation) ALIVE will be the last to be "Snatch away/ taken/Raptured" in a blink of an Eye to meet Christ in the Sky/Clouds, and immediately after that "Quick Event" the Wrath of God (Day of the Lord) begin/start... Amen.
@@jvlp2046
Revelation 20 5
But the rest of the dead lived not again till the thousand years have finished. This is the
First Resurrection.
Notice the dead are dead before the thousand years
Notice John said LIVE again
Notice it says First Resurrection
First means First
Daniel 12 2 sounds just like the second half of Revelation 20
First Resurrection for saints
Second death for unbelievers
Second Resurrection for Christian's
I shake my head with sadness when I see people wasting their time studying this stuff. There is no "true" interpretation, just as their is no "true" church." One spends his time better trying to live the two great commandments.
When Jesus comes the SECOND time He will appear to those who look for Him and love Him. Hebr 9:28.
This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.( Second time.Acts 1:11.)
Immediately after the tribulation Jesus shall appear from Heaven. (SECOND TIME) Matt. 24:29-30.
When Jesus comes the second time He will descent from Heaven and we will meet Him in the air.( 1Thes 4:16).
When Jesus comes the second time we will be gathering together unto Him.(2 Thes 2:1).
When Jesus comes the second time He will come in flaming fire and vengeance to those unbelievers who had fallen away from the truth and then Jesus will be glorified in his saints in that day.(2Thes 1:8,10).
Before Jesus comes the second time a falling away from the truth must take place for the antichrist to be revealed.(2Thes 2:3)
When Jesus comes the second time He will destroy the antichrist with the brightness of His coming and those who had fallen away from the truth..(2Thes 2:8,10).
Nobody is going to disappear (raptured) before Jesus comes the second time.
Revelation is the last book of the Bible because it is the last book you should read. You will never understand Revelation until you understand the other 65 books. J.M.M.
Pretrib rapture contradicts salvation
How ?
@@aeolian7556 salvation is based on believing. Not the obvious being revealed to the masses. The entertainment industry has programmed the masses to be aware of the rapture ideology. If they saw the rapture unfold they couldn’t come to God by searching him out with their soul. All they would have to do is say oh the Christians were right.. well now I have a few years to live and I’ll reject the beast and take the mark and save my soul.