What would the naval aspects of operation unthinkable have been and what would the post war composition of the US, RN and Red fleets have been post war assuming crushing defeat for the west (completely pushed of the continent) and limited victory for the west (polish no soviet satellite states in Europe)
You always hear a lot about the German U-boats. I know the Austro-Hungarian empire was mostly land-locked, but did the other central powers attempt to use u-boats? For that matter, what about the other European Axis powers in WW2? I know the Italians had frog men, but did they have any substantial or useful u-boats?
“Jellicoe’s crushing hand of god prototype”. Someone please put that on a shirt, with a divine Jellicoe holding a book of the Royal Navy in one hand, and presenting the “crushing hand of god” depth charge in the other. Then maybe at the bottom have a sinking sub on one side and a destroyer with its stern blown off on the other
This could have led to a precursor of the destruction/damage of Japanese ships when their torpedoes were hit in the next war. Or a rather embarrassing incident from poor handling.
Only the British would come up with the idea that to disable a sub is to sail up to it and smash the periscope with a hammer. Still, educational and entertaining as always.
@Charles Yuditsky Mine: floating around Sub: enters the area Mine: sees the sub Also Mine: *Hello!* Sea: a plume of sea spray, submarine, and Mine debris can be seen
Britain: An initial rush of silly ideas followed by a wide variety of innovative technologies culminating in these added to a revived and suddenly-viable-again shipping system last favored in the time of Nelson. America: Genuinely tries to build so many Clemsons that the sea is too clogged for U-boats to surface for air.
EH, YOU! What are you trying to do, kill me?! Because I nearly died choking on my pancakes because of this comment! If I hadn't managed to lubricate it with some maple syrup I would've been a goner for sure!
Every time I hear Drach mention the "Clemson Swarm" I get this image in my head that goes something like this: a High Seas Fleet dreadnaught is steaming across the North Sea: it sees a single Destroyer. "Oh, no real threat, I can deal with this!" Its crew thinks, as it makes for battle. Suddenly over the Horizon comes an endless stream of DDs, each one shouting "MINE! MINE! MINE!" like a Finding Nemo seagull. meanwhile the crew on the dreadnaught is just going "Oh my schnitzel not this...."
I swear, the hammer thing almost sounds like a Monty Python routine. "I say, seems there's a periscope over there." "Should we take action stations, sir?" "No no, let's not disturb the captain's tea. Just send out a boat with a petty officer and a pair of midshipmen to give it a good knock." "Aye aye, sir."
Particularly since they were at the same stage of development as aircraft. But then, aircraft were flying in the sky, and there were many with romantic visions of getting the hell out of the trenches. The silent service started out as it is now, silent. One of the consequences is the anti-sub warfare became silent too. For example, I knew of ASDIC, Q-ships, dazzle camouflage, and convoys, but that is all traditional military histories speak of and they were presented as products of WWI or its lessons. Dazzle cam was one of those things that I happen to learn about because one day I was browsing through the library shelves (Winnipeg Public, old main branch) and found a copy of a book about "modern" naval cam painting from the mid 20s. Before anyone gets anxious about the book, that was 1974 or so.
The Germans came closer to defeating Britain in WWI this way, than they did in the more publicized WW2 campaign...before convoy, the British lost ships at a staggering pace, and only the Kaiser's on-again, off-again policy of unrestricted submarine warfare allowed the British to recover in between.
Drachisms of the Day: 4:00 "Some of the early ideas were.......shall we say....somewhat 'endearing' in their naivety." 5:48 "It was also considered to try fitting a destroyer with a trawling-net to ensnare a submarine as if it was a school of particularly heavily-armed tuna." 10:58 "He ended up living to a ripe old age of 90. So, in theory, being repeatedly torpedoed can be good for your health, apparently." 11:29 "Given that a large number of the UK's best inventions tend to come from old men wearing flat-caps whilst working in their sheds." (I almost stopped listening at this point, thinking that "There is no way he's gonna top that".) 17:44 "But. Oh well! Better late than never." 21:06 "Which would, of course, only increase in number over time as the 'Clemson-Swarm' began it's inexorable rise." 22:23 "A tactic that was only marginally better than running around blindfolded, in a dark room, with a knife and trying to stab people based on what you can hear." 24:12 "Yaaay. I win! I win! I win!" (I picture a 'Talking-Drachy-Dolly'....with a pull-string on the back, that says such things.)
11:29 is the best. The British Empire was built upon bizarre and ingenious things that emerged from the sheds of British proto-Florida-men in flat caps.
The last photo of a Q ship is actually one of the ships my grandfather served on, the self same photo hung over their fire place at my grandparents home and he told us that this actually had torpedo tubes as well. As i havevsaid , he served on about three of these. He went through two world wars in the navy and finished the second world war as a C.P.O. many of the medals he had are now in the museum. He in fact had three ships sunk underneath him and one run aground after damage at Narvic.
Ah. Torpedoes. The bane of merchant ships. I was first interested in ocean liners then found this channel and love it. Submarines have a back of sinking some of my favorite ships. Titanic's sister ship Olympic rammed and sunk a sub, I believe being the only merchant ship ever to do so. And I heard a story of a ship called Justicia. Just launched during the first world war. She was torpedoed four times by a sub but survived and on her way back to port another sub fired 2 more which finally did her in.
Speaking of torpedoes, I once read the book Count Luckner the sea devil. Apparently he got a large Merchant steamer to stop by using his signal lamp to threaten to fire Torpedoes at it even though the sailing raider Seeadler wasn't even armed with torpedoes, the Potential Threat was scary enough
11:21 you ever look at a depth charge and think... huh that looks suspiciously like a 44 gallon oil drum filled with explosive and a fuze where the filler cap should be?...
The two rows of shiny drums in this today were at least tge first time I could remember thinking that. Probably thought about it before and forgotten many times 😅
Thanks Drach. As always a learning experience to stress my poor brain. You have to give credit to the crews of all merchant ships. Sailing into a warzone in a slow and unarmed ship took courage. Not enough credit is given to all those brave souls who risked death repeatedly. Without them there could be no victory.
Good video. I've noted that the first Battle of the Atlantic was barely mentioned in the histories of Naval warfare. It was a seriously deadly and pivotal campaign that deserves more recognition.
4:47 Still a valid technique for detecting submarines, theres a few fishing boat skippers have ended up wondering why theyre suddenly going backwards after they've caught an SSBN www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/07/mod-admits-british-submarine-dragged-fishing-trawler-through-irish-sea.
@@Shaun_Jones A Dutch Submarine of the Potvis-class is called HNLMS Tonijn. a name that translates to Spermwhale-class and HNMLS Tuna. She was launched in 1966, and now serves as a museum exhibit in Den Helder.
in fairness the royal navy even today while small and lacking compared to the US,China navies, is still easily more powerful and larger than most others. it is also as said by Drachinifel one of the few navies able to self support itself while on patrol for long term commitment. 13 frigates, six destroyers and around 11 submarines, a carrier and one being built plus all the support ships. is still a large force in today's expensive ship navy's.
@UCdSarc1n55L1pgS__510qlA I agree. While it's fashionable to trash the RN as a shadow of its former self, it's still a powerful shadow. When Prince of Wales is completed, the RN will have two carrier task forces, something only the USN can match. How effective Chinese carrier task forces will be remains to be seen. The RFA has the training, ability, and experience to support all of the RN at sea. This is also something that can only be matched by the USN. I'd even posit that today's RN is the most effective since shortly after the end of WWII. [EDIT] I don't know why UA-cam keeps trashing your name. This seems to be happening a lot lately but with no rhyme or reason.
"Strange Intelligence - Memoirs of Navel Secret Service" by Hector C. Bywater and H. C. Ferraby published in 1931 (room 40). It is a fascinating book covering WWI signals intelligence, showing once again how England used it's technical resources to protect the "island nation". You can still get a copy of it from used book sources and I highly recommend it. Before WWII Otto Kretschmer had read the book.From this he knew to keep his radio signals as brief as possible.
I was alerted to the existence of "Strange Intelligence - Memoirs of Navel Secret Service" while watching "U-Boat War - Episode 1 - Sea Wolves" - ITN/Discovery Channel MCMXCVII. At around 34 to 35 minutes into the episode Otto Kretschmer mentions the book and his great respect for British navel intelligence. Handwriting on the first page of my book indicates it was owned by someone in Edinburgh Scotland at one time. I'm of Scots & Welsh ancestry, with my father serving in the RCAF starting September 1939, making it to Croydon airfield by April 1940. His two brothers later served in the RCN, one a gunner on the destroyer HMCS Haida & HMCS SIOUX, the other a Petty Officer on the HMCS UGANDA. On June 2 1945 2/3 of the UGANDA''s crew voted not to re-volunteer. UGANDA was finally relieved by HMS Argonaut on 27 July, and UGANDA departed the Pacific Theatre. All three brothers survived the war, with my father remaining in the RCAF until retirement in 1971. navalandmilitarymuseum.org/archives/articles/controversies/the-uganda-episode Also see: HMCS Haida - Guide 027 (Special) Drachinifel ua-cam.com/video/KHRa32bplwc/v-deo.html
@Nasim Aghdam as much as we in America like to think we single handedly won the wars, thats not true. In WW1 we merely were the force that tipped the balance toward the allies against a much weakened central powers. In WW2 we played a much more significant part but its disrespectful to disregard the also huge contributions of the UK
@@Legitpenguins99 I'd caviat that by saying that was largely in Europe. We did a fair number in the Pacific on the Japanese just due to UKs distance from that theatee
"These were mercifully smaller than Jellico's 'Crushing Hand of God' prototype..." Oh, my. I had to backtrack, listen to it again to make sure I'd heard correctly... And let the laughing slowly come to a stop, just to be able to concentrate on the next Drachism. Not yet. The earthquake you're feeling in England is from me. I've been Drach'd.
I love Drachs videos - one question though? Who on earth are the odd balls that dislike his videos?! What’s to dislike?! 🙄 Keep up the great work mate.
A most interesting video, one of your best. (so far) When it comes to submarine/convoy warefare there is so much in common between WW1 and 2, yet the second conflict get all the attention......
I'm an Infantry Veteran so I usually like info about things like that but I love this channel and find these videos really interesting and informative. Thanks for doing all the vid's!!
Kind of surprising it took so long to come up with the Hedgehog. You'd think that something like a mortar would have been an obvious approach at this time.
I used to work with a man who had served as a marine engineer on the Atlantic convoys during WWII. Torpedoed and sunk twice, he lived to a ripe old age. R.I.P. Jack Parkinson, the finest man I've ever known.
Thanks for that. You have definitely filled a gap in my knowledge. As with aircraft submarines came along in leaps and bounds, as did anti-submarine warfare. You have to wonder how long all this would have taken during peace time.
The British H-K submarine tactics from 1918 presage the modern era . Since the introduction of Soviet/Russian third and fourth generation submarines that is essentially what SSNs do. With detection ranges measured in a few kiloyards submarines can't cover a lot of area and operating at high speeds or using active sonar to search just turns you into a target. Since the Second World War aircraft are the most effective anti-submarine weapons system. The dipping sonar equipped helicopter is the most feared threat among submariners. Put two on sub and it is dead in short order assuming of course the torpedoes work but that is another story that is above this level of classification.
Yes, Drach, I enjoyed the vid very much! Content, format, and humor are, as always, stellar. Perhaps humor is above average! For a future video: I'd love to hear your take on the Central Powers only North American mainland bombardment.... A tiny village on Cape Cod...by a submarine...and the near-comical US response will no doubt serve your understated humor quite nicely!
"Jellicoe's crushing hand of god"...😂 indeed the best way to describe converted seamines in use as depth charges probably lifting and/or ripping the stern of your little torpedo boat/trawler/early destroyer...
The story of anti-submarine warfare during World War I actually goes quite a bit further. You should look into the use of wooden subchasers, particularly in the Otranto Barrage, which was intended to keep the Austro-Hungarian navy bottled up in the Adriatic. See Wikipedia article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otranto_Barrage An excellent starting point would be ‘The Splinter Fleet,” a book written by a man who was the engineer on a U.S. subchaser. It’s available from Amazon. You want the one by Ray Millholland, not another book of the same title about World War II subchasers. I read the book many years ago, but I gave it away, sad to say. By the time the author became involved, the technology had advanced quite a bit from the efforts you describe, which were in blue water, rather different from the confined waters of the Otranto Strait. A newer technology on the subchasers was “SC tubes,” which were extended from somewhere in the ship’s hull into the sea, but only when the chaser was stationary. The operator was able to listen for the sound of a sub, then take a bearing. Two or more chasers working together could triangulate the bearings, which gave them a much better idea of where to heave their depth charges into the sea. Other things I recall: • The chasers had a flank speed of about 17 knots • A deck gun allowed the chasers to take on a surfaced sub, but crews were not eager for such combat because of the superior range and power of the Krupp rifles on the German subs. • The chasers were powered by three gasoline engines • Although reasonably effective, the chaser crews learned after the war that many of the “kills” they had claimed actually made it back to port safe and sound. Hope you find this interesting.
11:40 although slightly sarcastic it was nice to see the recognition for the efforts (and actual contributions) from the old guys in flat caps working and inventing in British sheds. Those blokes made a HUGE difference to the war effort.
Interesting video and comical as usual. My great grandfather was a merchant seaman. He always said speed was life.Apperently he serviced on fast moving freighters. As he passed before I could question him, I always wondered about that statement.
You understandably laugh at the fishing nets, however subs were reported to have been dragged around by fishing trollers up to at least the 1950s & 1960s. More powerful power-plants especially on the nuclear powered subs turned the tables and started dragging and even sinking the fishing boats by pulling them under. To this day subs are very wary of fishing boats for the safety of both crews.
Thank you for yet another very interesting episode! I would like to request that you do an episode on the Thai HTMS Thonburi. Funny-looking ship that fought the Vichy French early in WW2!
This has been asked before by me as a question on the battle of Koh Chang. The Vichy french vessel in question being the Duguay Truoin class light cruiser Lamotte Piquet.
Mines and Ramming... Silent Hunter simulator memories :-) Nothing like dueling a Royal Navy destroyer with ashcans coming down, a battle of mettle and wit. But Mines and getting rammed in a storm on the surface by RADAR equipped RN escorts, that´s the absolute nightmare. Depth-charges aren´t very lethal, they accumulate damage, but when waging a Coastal Submarine campaign, like in WW1 or late WW2 (Snorkeling U-Boats) mines took up to half (or more) of the kills. And many U-Boat wrecks are still to be located, a year ago we found another WW1 type here of the coast, believe it was a UC-II class? Or UB-III, they look alike.
I feel that whaling boats with explosive harpoons was wildly overlooked. There would have been plenty of skilled whalers still around in the early 1900s
@@Drachinifel Ah, I see. Thank you for the response! I was wondering what the max number of posts you could pin was. Hahaha. Anyways, keep up the great videos!!!!!
I hope this isn't too late: My grandfather served in the US Navy as a Machinists Mate in WWI. He was assigned to an Aviation Anti-submarine warfare squadron in England--of course. His job was balancing the propellers. My question for you, Sir, is what aircraft would he have likely been working on?
Unbelievably, at the start of hostilities in 1939, Walker was being earmarked for early retirement! Captain Johnnie Walker - hero of the Second World War page
Drachnifel, would you please spend some time on the Martin PBM Mariner? My grandfather served aboard one in WWII (Pacific) and I've always felt that there was never enough information, despite their obvious utility. You might, at the same stroke, cover their Currituck class tenders. Thank you for your fine work - I've really enjoyed your channel!
It's notable that the RN bitterly opposed convoying in 1917 when it was needed most - it had to be forced down their throat by the politicians (mainly Lloyd George, the PM). They thought accompanying slow merchant ships would make their warships sitting ducks, failing to get the point that a sunk loaded merchant ship was a bigger blow to Britain than a sunk destroyer (which the U boats understood).
A proper 'short' video, this one only clocking in at just shy of 26 minutes. Are you going to do a double-upload to make up for it? I kid obviously, any video from you is much appreciated.
Big naval mines werent only used against submarines. During the siege of Leningrad, soviet soldiers used naval mines as land mines. They did have success with them. I think they were set off by someone, not by actuall pressure of a tank.
Pinned post for Q&A :)
Has Fred Dibnah made any particular contributions to military science?
Is there any way to a submerged submarine to kill another submerged submarine in this period? Or even detect the other?
What would the naval aspects of operation unthinkable have been and what would the post war composition of the US, RN and Red fleets have been post war assuming crushing defeat for the west (completely pushed of the continent) and limited victory for the west (polish no soviet satellite states in Europe)
@@TheMuncyWolverine that's answered in this video 😂
You always hear a lot about the German U-boats. I know the Austro-Hungarian empire was mostly land-locked, but did the other central powers attempt to use u-boats? For that matter, what about the other European Axis powers in WW2? I know the Italians had frog men, but did they have any substantial or useful u-boats?
“Jellicoe’s crushing hand of god prototype”. Someone please put that on a shirt, with a divine Jellicoe holding a book of the Royal Navy in one hand, and presenting the “crushing hand of god” depth charge in the other. Then maybe at the bottom have a sinking sub on one side and a destroyer with its stern blown off on the other
This could have led to a precursor of the destruction/damage of Japanese ships when their torpedoes were hit in the next war. Or a rather embarrassing incident from poor handling.
Cartoon seaman desperately holding the rudder onto his ship...
Only the British would come up with the idea that to disable a sub is to sail up to it and smash the periscope with a hammer. Still, educational and entertaining as always.
The US Coast Guard just sails up and then beats on the hatch lol
To paraphrase from Murphy's Law of Combat.
If it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid.
Difficult, sure. Stupid? I don't know.
Well, the very first air-to-air armaments during World War 1 were revolvers and double barrel shotguns, so I guess its the same logic
@@weldonwin Don't forget the story of the guy using bricks in WW1 to take out planes.
Ww2 anti tank tactics include a hand axe. See Military History Visualized for details. Summary is to axe the intakes to throw things inside.
Mines are always so happy when someone comes to hug them. They are so lonely.
@Charles Yuditsky Mine: floating around
Sub: enters the area
Mine: sees the sub
Also Mine: *Hello!*
Sea: a plume of sea spray, submarine, and Mine debris can be seen
But they sure can have a magnetic personality...
Ill see my self out
My uncle was a merchant seaman in WW2. He lost his life to a mine in the Atlantic... come on...
@@dusktilldawny666 Sorry for your loss.
@@fabianzimmermann5495 Thanks
Britain: An initial rush of silly ideas followed by a wide variety of innovative technologies culminating in these added to a revived and suddenly-viable-again shipping system last favored in the time of Nelson.
America: Genuinely tries to build so many Clemsons that the sea is too clogged for U-boats to surface for air.
EH, YOU! What are you trying to do, kill me?! Because I nearly died choking on my pancakes because of this comment! If I hadn't managed to lubricate it with some maple syrup I would've been a goner for sure!
Every time I hear Drach mention the "Clemson Swarm" I get this image in my head that goes something like this:
a High Seas Fleet dreadnaught is steaming across the North Sea: it sees a single Destroyer. "Oh, no real threat, I can deal with this!" Its crew thinks, as it makes for battle.
Suddenly over the Horizon comes an endless stream of DDs, each one shouting "MINE! MINE! MINE!" like a Finding Nemo seagull. meanwhile the crew on the dreadnaught is just going "Oh my schnitzel not this...."
@@sawyerawr5783 ANCHORS AWAY intensifies.
@@sawyerawr5783 lol hahaha 😆 🤣 😂 thats so very funny now im also picturing that 😄
DESTROYER PRINTER GO BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
I swear, the hammer thing almost sounds like a Monty Python routine.
"I say, seems there's a periscope over there."
"Should we take action stations, sir?"
"No no, let's not disturb the captain's tea. Just send out a boat with a petty officer and a pair of midshipmen to give it a good knock."
"Aye aye, sir."
"Lemon Curry?"
Maddog3060 Blackadder goes to sea.
What about pointed sticks?
@@JB-ym4up Fresh fruit not good enough for you, eh? … when a maniac attacks you with a bunch of loganberries!
@@firefox3187 Definitely more Blackadder than Monty Python.
It's weird how no one talks about ww1 anti submarine warfare. Thanks for bringing it up Drach.
Particularly since they were at the same stage of development as aircraft. But then, aircraft were flying in the sky, and there were many with romantic visions of getting the hell out of the trenches. The silent service started out as it is now, silent. One of the consequences is the anti-sub warfare became silent too.
For example, I knew of ASDIC, Q-ships, dazzle camouflage, and convoys, but that is all traditional military histories speak of and they were presented as products of WWI or its lessons. Dazzle cam was one of those things that I happen to learn about because one day I was browsing through the library shelves (Winnipeg Public, old main branch) and found a copy of a book about "modern" naval cam painting from the mid 20s. Before anyone gets anxious about the book, that was 1974 or so.
The Germans came closer to defeating Britain in WWI this way, than they did in the more publicized WW2 campaign...before convoy, the British lost ships at a staggering pace, and only the Kaiser's on-again, off-again policy of unrestricted submarine warfare allowed the British to recover in between.
Drachisms of the Day:
4:00 "Some of the early ideas were.......shall we say....somewhat 'endearing' in their naivety."
5:48 "It was also considered to try fitting a destroyer with a trawling-net to ensnare a submarine
as if it was a school of particularly heavily-armed tuna."
10:58 "He ended up living to a ripe old age of 90. So, in theory, being repeatedly torpedoed can
be good for your health, apparently."
11:29 "Given that a large number of the UK's best inventions tend to come from old men wearing
flat-caps whilst working in their sheds." (I almost stopped listening at this point, thinking that
"There is no way he's gonna top that".)
17:44 "But. Oh well! Better late than never."
21:06 "Which would, of course, only increase in number over time as the 'Clemson-Swarm' began it's inexorable rise."
22:23 "A tactic that was only marginally better than running around blindfolded, in a dark room, with
a knife and trying to stab people based on what you can hear."
24:12 "Yaaay. I win! I win! I win!" (I picture a 'Talking-Drachy-Dolly'....with a pull-string on the back,
that says such things.)
It's actually a talking sea mine with a super happy face and pull string. That would be on my desk in one minute GMT.
11:29 is the best. The British Empire was built upon bizarre and ingenious things that emerged from the sheds of British proto-Florida-men in flat caps.
4:23 - - "more honorable gun combat"?
11:16 Mercifully smaller than Jellico’s crushing hand of god” or somethung similar
loved the tuna statement :)
The last photo of a Q ship is actually one of the ships my grandfather served on, the self same photo hung over their fire place at my grandparents home and he told us that this actually had torpedo tubes as well. As i havevsaid , he served on about three of these.
He went through two world wars in the navy and finished the second world war as a C.P.O. many of the medals he had are now in the museum.
He in fact had three ships sunk underneath him and one run aground after damage at Narvic.
5:56 As opposed to regular armed tuna.
Lol
And God help them if some swordfish showed up.
What kind of tuna are you catching?
@@bazooka422 The ones you don't want to meet at night in a dark alley.
Ah. Torpedoes. The bane of merchant ships. I was first interested in ocean liners then found this channel and love it. Submarines have a back of sinking some of my favorite ships. Titanic's sister ship Olympic rammed and sunk a sub, I believe being the only merchant ship ever to do so. And I heard a story of a ship called Justicia. Just launched during the first world war. She was torpedoed four times by a sub but survived and on her way back to port another sub fired 2 more which finally did her in.
Speaking of torpedoes, I once read the book Count Luckner the sea devil. Apparently he got a large Merchant steamer to stop by using his signal lamp to threaten to fire Torpedoes at it even though the sailing raider Seeadler wasn't even armed with torpedoes, the Potential Threat was scary enough
11:21 you ever look at a depth charge and think... huh that looks suspiciously like a 44 gallon oil drum filled with explosive and a fuze where the filler cap should be?...
The two rows of shiny drums in this today were at least tge first time I could remember thinking that. Probably thought about it before and forgotten many times 😅
Thanks Drach. As always a learning experience to stress my poor brain.
You have to give credit to the crews of all merchant ships. Sailing into a warzone in a slow and unarmed ship took courage.
Not enough credit is given to all those brave souls who risked death repeatedly. Without them there could be no victory.
Good video. I've noted that the first Battle of the Atlantic was barely mentioned in the histories of Naval warfare. It was a seriously deadly and pivotal campaign that deserves more recognition.
4:47 Still a valid technique for detecting submarines, theres a few fishing boat skippers have ended up wondering why theyre suddenly going backwards after they've caught an SSBN www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/07/mod-admits-british-submarine-dragged-fishing-trawler-through-irish-sea.
Thats and Japanese fishing boats with somewhat alarming regularity catch North Korean midget submarines.
"Being repeatedly torpedoed can be good for your health" Gonna try this Drachism on the Lady later
You've made this comment on a different video I believe
Sir the lady doth protests
Drach: "try to fit a trawling net to a destroyer trying to ensnare a submarine like a heavily armed school of tuna.
*nervous looking HNLMS Tonijn*
Please explain
@@Shaun_Jones A Dutch Submarine of the Potvis-class is called HNLMS Tonijn. a name that translates to Spermwhale-class and HNMLS Tuna. She was launched in 1966, and now serves as a museum exhibit in Den Helder.
Jos Vonk ok I get it now
As someone who lives in Bolton, I am sad that I can't give you more than one like for the Fred Dibnah reference.
Last time I was this early, we still had a significant Royal Navy fleet...
lol them where the days......
in fairness the royal navy even today while small and lacking compared to the US,China navies, is still easily more powerful and larger than most others. it is also as said by Drachinifel one of the few navies able to self support itself while on patrol for long term commitment. 13 frigates, six destroyers and around 11 submarines, a carrier and one being built plus all the support ships. is still a large force in today's expensive ship navy's.
@UCdSarc1n55L1pgS__510qlA
I agree. While it's fashionable to trash the RN as a shadow of its former self, it's still a powerful shadow. When Prince of Wales is completed, the RN will have two carrier task forces, something only the USN can match. How effective Chinese carrier task forces will be remains to be seen. The RFA has the training, ability, and experience to support all of the RN at sea. This is also something that can only be matched by the USN. I'd even posit that today's RN is the most effective since shortly after the end of WWII.
[EDIT] I don't know why UA-cam keeps trashing your name. This seems to be happening a lot lately but with no rhyme or reason.
Or the Russians had working carriers. :)
to ne fair our few destroyers area of denial, range, if still very effective
Nobody:
Mine: *OwO What’s This?*
Mine: Its so cold and lonely down here... Oh, a thing. Hello there *(KABOOM!!!)*
Creeper: Nani!?
"Strange Intelligence - Memoirs of Navel Secret Service" by Hector C. Bywater and H. C. Ferraby published in 1931 (room 40).
It is a fascinating book covering WWI signals intelligence, showing once again how England used it's technical resources to protect the "island nation". You can still get a copy of it from used book sources and I highly recommend it.
Before WWII Otto Kretschmer had read the book.From this he knew to keep his radio signals as brief as possible.
I was alerted to the existence of "Strange Intelligence - Memoirs of Navel Secret Service" while watching "U-Boat War - Episode 1 - Sea Wolves" - ITN/Discovery Channel MCMXCVII.
At around 34 to 35 minutes into the episode Otto Kretschmer mentions the book and his great respect for British navel intelligence.
Handwriting on the first page of my book indicates it was owned by someone in Edinburgh Scotland at one time.
I'm of Scots & Welsh ancestry, with my father serving in the RCAF starting September 1939, making it to Croydon airfield by April 1940. His two brothers later served in the RCN, one a gunner on the destroyer HMCS Haida & HMCS SIOUX, the other a Petty Officer on the HMCS UGANDA. On June 2 1945 2/3 of the UGANDA''s crew voted not to re-volunteer. UGANDA was finally relieved by HMS Argonaut on 27 July, and UGANDA departed the Pacific Theatre. All three brothers survived the war, with my father remaining in the RCAF until retirement in 1971.
navalandmilitarymuseum.org/archives/articles/controversies/the-uganda-episode
Also see: HMCS Haida - Guide 027 (Special)
Drachinifel
ua-cam.com/video/KHRa32bplwc/v-deo.html
old men with flat caps - the reason Britain won 2 world wars and so many motor races.
We need these people NOW desperately to at least get some counter balance to the idiots in charge of the country
@@anthroderick5383He spoke the truth.
@ Your answer is exactly what I deserved for arguing with semi- alphabetized third world children in the internet.
@Nasim Aghdam as much as we in America like to think we single handedly won the wars, thats not true. In WW1 we merely were the force that tipped the balance toward the allies against a much weakened central powers. In WW2 we played a much more significant part but its disrespectful to disregard the also huge contributions of the UK
@@Legitpenguins99
I'd caviat that by saying that was largely in Europe. We did a fair number in the Pacific on the Japanese just due to UKs distance from that theatee
"These were mercifully smaller than Jellico's 'Crushing Hand of God' prototype..."
Oh, my. I had to backtrack, listen to it again to make sure I'd heard correctly...
And let the laughing slowly come to a stop, just to be able to concentrate on the next Drachism.
Not yet. The earthquake you're feeling in England is from me. I've been Drach'd.
If dry wit could destroy every enemy and their weapons, the British would reign supreme over the planet.
“Jellicoe’s crushing hand of god”
I laughed way more than I should have.
Lawyers representing the arch-mage Bigby would like to have a word…
This is cool, ww1 anti submarine is just never talked about. Thank you.
Fred Dibnah! What a guy, watched him in my youth, great guy!
Respect for the dibnah appearance.
"Rather severe"
Classic British understatement, you have to love it.
I never expected to see honours paid to Fred Dibnah in a Drachinifel piece!
"Crushing Hand of God" depth charges. LOL Actual, again. Good one, Drach!
I actually cheered when I seen Fred. Well done!
I love Drachs videos - one question though? Who on earth are the odd balls that dislike his videos?! What’s to dislike?! 🙄 Keep up the great work mate.
A most interesting video, one of your best. (so far) When it comes to submarine/convoy warefare there is so much in common between WW1 and 2, yet the second conflict get all the attention......
I'm an Infantry Veteran so I usually like info about things like that but I love this channel and find these videos really interesting and informative. Thanks for doing all the vid's!!
Never expected to see a pic of fred dibnah on this channel although he did love steam power so it is kind of fitting
Kind of surprising it took so long to come up with the Hedgehog. You'd think that something like a mortar would have been an obvious approach at this time.
Ah, good old Fred Dibnah at 11:28.
Thanks 'D' for this video. It was really a fine summation of the evolution of submarine warfare.
Crushing hand of God prototype. I never knew I needed to hear something so much until it was said.
"Getting torpedoed may be good for your health apparently"
God that's so unbelievably BRITISH
I used to work with a man who had served as a marine engineer on the Atlantic convoys during WWII. Torpedoed and sunk twice, he lived to a ripe old age. R.I.P. Jack Parkinson, the finest man I've ever known.
@@Kevin-mx1vi hero
No other History lessonz have made me laugh as much as these essayz - Respectful wit & wide scope of wordsmith too !🏴☠️
The hammer thing is straight out of a cartoon and I love it
Thanks for that. You have definitely filled a gap in my knowledge.
As with aircraft submarines came along in leaps and bounds, as did anti-submarine warfare. You have to wonder how long all this would have taken during peace time.
The British H-K submarine tactics from 1918 presage the modern era . Since the introduction of Soviet/Russian third and fourth generation submarines that is essentially what SSNs do. With detection ranges measured in a few kiloyards submarines can't cover a lot of area and operating at high speeds or using active sonar to search just turns you into a target. Since the Second World War aircraft are the most effective anti-submarine weapons system. The dipping sonar equipped helicopter is the most feared threat among submariners. Put two on sub and it is dead in short order assuming of course the torpedoes work but that is another story that is above this level of classification.
Yes, Drach, I enjoyed the vid very much! Content, format, and humor are, as always, stellar. Perhaps humor is above average! For a future video: I'd love to hear your take on the Central Powers only North American mainland bombardment.... A tiny village on Cape Cod...by a submarine...and the near-comical US response will no doubt serve your understated humor quite nicely!
Thank you Drachinifel, I was waiting for quite a long time for this particular video.
Love your work.
Never would’ve expected to run into the Little Mine in this video...lel
22:00 Now that sounds like a good party game.
Fred Dibnah, my inspiration for restoring old stuff.
"Jellicoe's crushing hand of god"...😂 indeed the best way to describe converted seamines in use as depth charges probably lifting and/or ripping the stern of your little torpedo boat/trawler/early destroyer...
The story of anti-submarine warfare during World War I actually goes quite a bit further. You should look into the use of wooden subchasers, particularly in the Otranto Barrage, which was intended to keep the Austro-Hungarian navy bottled up in the Adriatic. See Wikipedia article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otranto_Barrage
An excellent starting point would be ‘The Splinter Fleet,” a book written by a man who was the engineer on a U.S. subchaser. It’s available from Amazon. You want the one by Ray Millholland, not another book of the same title about World War II subchasers. I read the book many years ago, but I gave it away, sad to say. By the time the author became involved, the technology had advanced quite a bit from the efforts you describe, which were in blue water, rather different from the confined waters of the Otranto Strait.
A newer technology on the subchasers was “SC tubes,” which were extended from somewhere in the ship’s hull into the sea, but only when the chaser was stationary. The operator was able to listen for the sound of a sub, then take a bearing. Two or more chasers working together could triangulate the bearings, which gave them a much better idea of where to heave their depth charges into the sea.
Other things I recall:
• The chasers had a flank speed of about 17 knots
• A deck gun allowed the chasers to take on a surfaced sub, but crews were not eager for such combat because of the superior range and power of the Krupp rifles on the German subs.
• The chasers were powered by three gasoline engines
• Although reasonably effective, the chaser crews learned after the war that many of the “kills” they had claimed actually made it back to port safe and sound.
Hope you find this interesting.
these are honestly some incredibly creative ideas.
I love the mines. Perfect acting.
I originally thought the "hammers" in the title must be a joke but, this being the British we're talking about, I should have known better...
I believe potatoes were used in WW2 at one point in time.
Good morning Drach! 😎
11:40 although slightly sarcastic it was nice to see the recognition for the efforts (and actual contributions) from the old guys in flat caps working and inventing in British sheds. Those blokes made a HUGE difference to the war effort.
Interesting video and comical as usual. My great grandfather was a merchant seaman. He always said speed was life.Apperently he serviced on fast moving freighters. As he passed before I could question him, I always wondered about that statement.
Always love a mention of the ***CLEMSON SWARM***
You must do a video on HMS E-11!
I think her total kill count or tonnage count hasn't been beaten but I could be wrong.
You understandably laugh at the fishing nets, however subs were reported to have been dragged around by fishing trollers up to at least the 1950s & 1960s. More powerful power-plants especially on the nuclear powered subs turned the tables and started dragging and even sinking the fishing boats by pulling them under. To this day subs are very wary of fishing boats for the safety of both crews.
24:12 - D'awww, Little Miss Sea Mine is back!
11.34 fred dibnah .
the legendary chimney builder !
R.I.P.
You might add to “Slow and blind (and short on air). Not sure how long a WWI U-boat could stay down, but 24 hours was probably stretching it.
Kevin is going to have fun with his Drachisms on this one!
Who?
@@Bronasaxon if you watch the channel regularly, you'd have seen him post up in the comments. Don't worry. He'll be along shortly I dare say :)
The mines... usually win....
it's just a matter of who is the loser that's going to end up getting blown up
You could say World War I sub defense was...MineCraft.
Thank you for yet another very interesting episode!
I would like to request that you do an episode on the Thai HTMS Thonburi. Funny-looking ship that fought the Vichy French early in WW2!
This has been asked before by me as a question on the battle of Koh Chang. The Vichy french vessel in question being the Duguay Truoin class light cruiser Lamotte Piquet.
Drach, thanks for doing what you do. I do prefer the longer, more detailed format videos than the short 5-ish minute guides.
Mines and Ramming... Silent Hunter simulator memories :-) Nothing like dueling a Royal Navy destroyer with ashcans coming down, a battle of mettle and wit. But Mines and getting rammed in a storm on the surface by RADAR equipped RN escorts, that´s the absolute nightmare. Depth-charges aren´t very lethal, they accumulate damage, but when waging a Coastal Submarine campaign, like in WW1 or late WW2 (Snorkeling U-Boats) mines took up to half (or more) of the kills. And many U-Boat wrecks are still to be located, a year ago we found another WW1 type here of the coast, believe it was a UC-II class? Or UB-III, they look alike.
With numbers like that, you can see where Donitz was comming from with his statements in WW2.
I feel that whaling boats with explosive harpoons was wildly overlooked. There would have been plenty of skilled whalers still around in the early 1900s
Many thanks for this I have been hoping for more on WW1 anti submarine warfare since I found a copy of 'u-boats destroyed ' at a library sell off
I found out recently that my grandfather was a submariner in WWI, US Fleet. Thanks for the video.
Petition for Drach to pin the Drachisms of the day
Attempt #3
Unfortunately I can only pin one post, so it's either that or the Q&A post getting pinned.
@@Drachinifel Ah, I see. Thank you for the response! I was wondering what the max number of posts you could pin was. Hahaha. Anyways, keep up the great videos!!!!!
"Being repeatedly torpedoed can be good for your health"
Lol, I'd expect that to be a headline from The Onion.
I hope this isn't too late: My grandfather served in the US Navy as a Machinists Mate in WWI. He was assigned to an Aviation Anti-submarine warfare squadron in England--of course. His job was balancing the propellers. My question for you, Sir, is what aircraft would he have likely been working on?
A sunny day and Antisubmarine warfare from Drach....... Today is a good day.
The bell of the USS Tennessee is on display in Howard Bakers hometown of Huntsville Tn.
You should do a story on how it got there
Unbelievably, at the start of hostilities in 1939, Walker was being earmarked for early retirement!
Captain Johnnie Walker - hero of the Second World War page
Drachnifel, would you please spend some time on the Martin PBM Mariner? My grandfather served aboard one in WWII (Pacific) and I've always felt that there was never enough information, despite their obvious utility. You might, at the same stroke, cover their Currituck class tenders. Thank you for your fine work - I've really enjoyed your channel!
Once went fishing and caught a submarine THIS big!
I like it when they're "5 minutes" vs 5 minutes.
Please do a video on commander walker rn when you do a ww2 follow up
I understand that you dont want to remove the rear of your ship along with the sub, but i quite liked the “crushing hand of god”
Very good overview. How about doing one on the development of ASW in the interwar period? Just a thought.
Nice pic of the R.M.S. CARPATHIA.
Another great video, I really appreciate all the effort.
19 cases of u-boats lost to ramming... Teghetthoff would have been proud.
We trust you to educate us on an oceanz worth of ship & navy history & traditionz - teacher !🇨🇦
One must wonder: what if merchant submarines became a thing?
There was that blockade runner sub from Germany second ww I believe.
When the Alaska oilfields were being opened large tanker subs (to carry stuff under the ice) were seriously contemplated.
Hi, great video thanks!
PS:- ASDIC - Anti Submarine Detection Investigation Committee.
A discussion of the Royal Navy's submarine fleet operating out of Russian bases during WW1 would be appreciated.😁
Ah yes, the Clemson swarm, Britain: Hey USA, how many destroyers can you lend us? USA: *yes*
(Sound of a slot machine jackpot and lots and LOTS of destroyers drop out of a chute and splash into the sea and instantly take off at full steam)
@4:10 ~ fascinating.
The Rise of the Clemson Swarm!
RELEASE THE CLEMSONS
Thanks!
It's notable that the RN bitterly opposed convoying in 1917 when it was needed most - it had to be forced down their throat by the politicians (mainly Lloyd George, the PM). They thought accompanying slow merchant ships would make their warships sitting ducks, failing to get the point that a sunk loaded merchant ship was a bigger blow to Britain than a sunk destroyer (which the U boats understood).
11:40 Mr Dibnah :)
7:22 That image is horrifying. That's enough explosives to absolutely vaporise a few acres of land.
A proper 'short' video, this one only clocking in at just shy of 26 minutes. Are you going to do a double-upload to make up for it?
I kid obviously, any video from you is much appreciated.
Big naval mines werent only used against submarines. During the siege of Leningrad, soviet soldiers used naval mines as land mines. They did have success with them. I think they were set off by someone, not by actuall pressure of a tank.