I have been using Japanese style saws for decades - these are some of the nicest quality commercially made saws I have found so far. There are others that are more expensive, but these are a quality product that hold up well and a good saw for the money. Thanks for posting this video - you aren't the only one to struggle just keeping up with English only, I have that same problem myself!
A dozuki is not only for dovetails. They are marketed like that in the West but not in Japan. They are made for any situation when you need a fine, stable cut.
The true craftsmanship shows when you can use a 12" bladed Ryoba to cut the dovetails into a snuffbox! Lol. Seriously though, before I saw this vid by some Irishman, I had no idea what the deal was with the names of all those Japanese saws! Thank you verymuch!
Thanks John. This was such an informative video. After watching this my other half bought the same set for my birthday. I absolutely love them and have used to cut everything from 1.5mm balsa to large lumber. Keep up the great work. Regards, Nick (from SW France).
I was watching somebody else's video (not quite as good as this one) and the fellow mentioned that being too aggressive - pulling the japanese saw out of the work accidentally and then replacing it haphazardly - can damage the lead teeth of the particular saw. I come from a machine shop background and we were always taught to "use the entire length of the blade" for economic reasons. Too bad! I'm stopping an inch or so from pulling the saw completely out of the wood. I can't wait to try one of these saws!
Hello nice saws:] I am about to get the double sided version. It does seem like you can sharpen the rip side. I will give it a try once she gets old and dull.
I also have a full set of Veritas saws which i love super affordable. But I would always drift to my Gyokucho set . Two reasons they're super fun to use plus my daughter wants to do more and more woodworking and with the japanese saws if the piece is well clamped she can use both hands which is a lot safer. Nice video man!!!
a quick note... if you are not sure if you want one before spending £35 on a Japanese saw.... Lidl and Aldi sell cheap ones which will get you use to them.... I have just purchased my first decent Japanese saw and I love it..
That's what I did. 5 euros for a Lidl Japanese saw. It gave me a good feel for it. Personally I prefer quality Western saws, but the Japanese ones are easier to start with.
Gyokucho is in Miki Japan. I love Miki carpenter tools. it's a blacksmith town since ancient times. My favorite sawsmiths are Jiro Bessho and Taizou Mitsukawa. but my saws are semihandmade ones from them, so these are not top quality one from them, around 6000-7000yen.
I have had these saws for years (15+) and a couple of things to get used to. One is they will drift. I can cut a much straighter line with the back or basic western cross cut saw. (Ones I file myself per the Paul Sellers method also) and I see a lot of teeth snapping on hardwood. I used to make a lot of furniture (so hidden joints and dovetails, some sliding ones too) mostly maple (figured, birds-eye, spalted) some walnut and cherry and had a fair amount of breakage. All told, several $$100's of new "replacement" blades on the katana and ryoba ( the 2 main classes of Japanese saws) . Thus far, none of my "western saws" have bit the dust and/required replacement due to use/age. Granted, the more precise, surgical kerf, is way more intricate but at the price of delicate also. I still have to clean up to the lines on any joint or final dimension anyway. The specialty saws are really awesome and often very unique. I do like the feel and lightness of these saws and use them quite frequently. If I could only figure out how to sharpen! For your information, here is a list of common Japanese saws: tategu-shi- means refers to craftsman or carpenter performing the work anahiki-nokigiri- crosscut for logs and beams (up to 20" long blade) kamochiki-nokogiri- making deep grooves (kamoe) for sliding doors etc kataba-nohogiri- single edge kugihiki-nokogiri- flush cutting bamboo "nails" , blade is tapered and usually 20-26 teeth per inch! Hard, highly tempered. osachiki-nokogiri- cuts grooves in making plane (kana) blocks, deep and no set at all hosobiki-nokogiri- small dosuki with rip teeth dosuki-nokogiri- cross cutting thin stock ryoba-noko- double edge azebiki-nokogiri- veneer work and inlays maebiki-nokogiri- huge milling saws and not often used a mawashibiki-nokogiri- like a western key-hole saw Please keep up the good content on your videos. DD
Agree the hard or heavily figured timbers can be a bitch using the ryoba etc. However, have you reviewed your grip on the saw? Sometimes a slight adjustment on how you hold the saw can reduce drift. Try to hold the saw such that it is an extension of your hand when you are cutting. I.e reduce the angle between the saw handle and your arm as much as possible. So as you draw back on the saw it is less likely to drift. It took me a few goes to get it right, but it works very well🙂
If you notice there are modified teeth at the top and bottom, the top one is for finish of ten on and such as it is aligned with only the first cutting tooth, leaving no perf Mark. The bottom on is for starting saw perf next to straight edge.
I've seen lots of videos on Japanese saws as of late. I noticed sometimes you can purchase saws specifically listed as " for hardwood". Is this important if you are cutting into hardwoods, or is it ok to buy the "regular" listed Japanese saws? And can you use to cut into softwoods to with these "hardwood" saws. I don't see a lot of UA-cam videos mention the specifically designed hardwood Japanese saws or if you have to go through the trouble of buying it specifically to cut into hardwoods. Your thoughts? thx
Thanks for the information, I've just bought a Japanese saw waiting on its delivery its a Gyokucho how durable are the blades I'll not be using it every day just occasionally for whatever I need to cut, I'm hoping I'm better with it than your normal European saw lol.
All the craftsmen of the past whose prized furniture is in museums and people travel to see them and admire, didn't knew about these miraculous Japanese saws. Pity.
@@LitoGeorge I was given on of these dual edged saw by a friend, I used it as a novelty, then one day out of no reason (to me), while ripping a piece of soft wood I badly cut my little finger of left hand. What I did was that out of habit I momentarily held the upper ripped portion for just a meaningless support which I have been doing for the past 50 years, 75 now, the proper hand saw, pull or push, would always said hello to my finger if it lightly touched but this was a Samurai. They cut fast but would you do when the crosscut teeth are dull, you have to take a university degree in kung-fu to sharpen them. They may be good, I do agree but not that good enough that we should praise them as the only good saws, my times ending new disposable times come that's the cycle 😉 😀.
You can find really good quality Japanese saws that can be sharpened, but they generally require an expert to do it, so the cost of sending it to Japan ends up making sharpening more expensive than just buying a new one which is why outside of Japan it makes much more sense to get the saws with the replaceable blades. I don’t know how much expertise is required though...maybe it’s possible to learn to do it yourself which could make getting the other version worth it.
Indeed you are correct. In addition, you need to use the correct size feather edge file to sharpen the teeth. Remember, though you can’t (shouldn’t) sharpen replaceable blades ..these are high frequency impulse hardened to last up to 7 years before replacement is required.😎
@@MrSteamDragon Is there any benefit to using sharpen-able blades aside from cost of replacement? It's hard to imagine sharpening costs low enough that the reusable blades become cheaper unless it is fully automated by machine. Does anyone still get theirs resharpened? or is it something people actually learn to do themselves? Do they get somehow sharper?
@@RichardBuckman Hi Richard, a benefit of sharpening your own blade? I guess if you have the skills/tools to do it yourself then a quicker turn around would be the obvious benefit; you don’t have to shop around or order a new blade. Are replaceable blades better? I cant offer an opinion on this one but I would assume a craftsman who is proficient at the task would be able restore the blade to it original condition. From my experience (albeit limited) with japanese saws is that good quality replaceable blades cost roughly half that of the original saw. And those blades are touted to last 5-7 years before needing to be replaced, so the value for money isn’t that bad. At the end of the day I think its a personal preference. Some may even chose to resharpen because they enjoy the experience. It’d be interesting to hear other’s peoples views. Cheers from Oz 🇦🇺
Very nice. You’re generous with your knowledge. May I say, the name Gyokucho has just THREE syllables (That’s “tree” to you, sir. A bit of Irish humor; please forgive me.) The first syllable is [gyo]. Say it as a single thing. Think of the English saying “suit.” Hear how they throw in a little “Y” sound after the “s”? Next comes [ku]. This is what the doves do: coo. However, a “ku” syllable is often just aspirated, like the “k” without the “oo” part. The last part’s the most straightforward: [cho] is the last part of nacho. Gyo-ku-cho. I admit I’m not entirely sure where the accent goes, but I suspect it’s on the [gyo], believe it or not. This would end up sounding like two syllables: gyok-cho. It’s no wonder we round eyes say guy-oh-coo-cho.
Think of the English saying “suit.” Hear how they throw in a little “Y” sound after the “s”? I'm English and definitely don't do this! Although I do know what you mean, it's really only one or two specific English accents that would say it like that
about your hand position, the best way to use japanese saw is back and downward, instead of just backwards. Another coment: the superloud music is screws up with the viewer's confort.
I have been using Japanese style saws for decades - these are some of the nicest quality commercially made saws I have found so far. There are others that are more expensive, but these are a quality product that hold up well and a good saw for the money. Thanks for posting this video - you aren't the only one to struggle just keeping up with English only, I have that same problem myself!
A dozuki is not only for dovetails. They are marketed like that in the West but not in Japan. They are made for any situation when you need a fine, stable cut.
The true craftsmanship shows when you can use a 12" bladed Ryoba to cut the dovetails into a snuffbox! Lol. Seriously though, before I saw this vid by some Irishman, I had no idea what the deal was with the names of all those Japanese saws! Thank you verymuch!
Thanks John. This was such an informative video. After watching this my other half bought the same set for my birthday. I absolutely love them and have used to cut everything from 1.5mm balsa to large lumber. Keep up the great work. Regards, Nick (from SW France).
Glad it was helpful Nick
Thank you from an Irishman in the US. great presentation looking forward to more
I have one Japanese saw a Ryoba that I use for quick flush and smooth cuts... I know nothing of Japanese saws your Video was very informative.
I was watching somebody else's video (not quite as good as this one) and the fellow mentioned that being too aggressive - pulling the japanese saw out of the work accidentally and then replacing it haphazardly - can damage the lead teeth of the particular saw. I come from a machine shop background and we were always taught to "use the entire length of the blade" for economic reasons. Too bad! I'm stopping an inch or so from pulling the saw completely out of the wood. I can't wait to try one of these saws!
How many times did I say super???
Hello nice saws:] I am about to get the double sided version. It does seem like you can sharpen the rip side. I will give it a try once she gets old and dull.
Nice presentation…..your pronunciation was really 👍
I also have a full set of Veritas saws which i love super affordable. But I would always drift to my Gyokucho set . Two reasons they're super fun to use plus my daughter wants to do more and more woodworking and with the japanese saws if the piece is well clamped she can use both hands which is a lot safer. Nice video man!!!
Beware the Japanese saws are quite cruel also.
a quick note... if you are not sure if you want one before spending £35 on a Japanese saw.... Lidl and Aldi sell cheap ones which will get you use to them.... I have just purchased my first decent Japanese saw and I love it..
Thanks for sharing that info
Good videos by the way. Only found you about a month ago love the info. Keep it up From sunny Wales
@@oddjobkia Nice one man thanks
That's what I did. 5 euros for a Lidl Japanese saw. It gave me a good feel for it. Personally I prefer quality Western saws, but the Japanese ones are easier to start with.
I fucking love the accent and pronunciation, so lovely
Great video
Gyokucho is in Miki Japan. I love Miki carpenter tools. it's a blacksmith town since ancient times. My favorite sawsmiths are Jiro Bessho and Taizou Mitsukawa. but my saws are semihandmade ones from them, so these are not top quality one from them, around 6000-7000yen.
They look easy to use John...
Very NOICE KNOIVES and SOARS!
I have had these saws for years (15+) and a couple of things to get used to. One is they will drift. I can cut a much straighter line with the back or basic western cross cut saw. (Ones I file myself per the Paul Sellers method also) and I see a lot of teeth snapping on hardwood. I used to make a lot of furniture (so hidden joints and dovetails, some sliding ones too) mostly maple (figured, birds-eye, spalted) some walnut and cherry and had a fair amount of breakage. All told, several $$100's of new "replacement" blades on the katana and ryoba ( the 2 main classes of Japanese saws) . Thus far, none of my "western saws" have bit the dust and/required replacement due to use/age. Granted, the more precise, surgical kerf, is way more intricate but at the price of delicate also. I still have to clean up to the lines on any joint or final dimension anyway. The specialty saws are really awesome and often very unique. I do like the feel and lightness of these saws and use them quite frequently. If I could only figure out how to sharpen! For your information, here is a list of common Japanese saws:
tategu-shi- means refers to craftsman or carpenter performing the work
anahiki-nokigiri- crosscut for logs and beams (up to 20" long blade)
kamochiki-nokogiri- making deep grooves (kamoe) for sliding doors etc
kataba-nohogiri- single edge
kugihiki-nokogiri- flush cutting bamboo "nails" , blade is tapered and usually 20-26 teeth per inch! Hard, highly tempered.
osachiki-nokogiri- cuts grooves in making plane (kana) blocks, deep and no set at all
hosobiki-nokogiri- small dosuki with rip teeth
dosuki-nokogiri- cross cutting thin stock
ryoba-noko- double edge
azebiki-nokogiri- veneer work and inlays
maebiki-nokogiri- huge milling saws
and not often used a mawashibiki-nokogiri- like a western key-hole saw
Please keep up the good content on your videos. DD
Agree the hard or heavily figured timbers can be a bitch using the ryoba etc. However, have you reviewed your grip on the saw? Sometimes a slight adjustment on how you hold the saw can reduce drift. Try to hold the saw such that it is an extension of your hand when you are cutting. I.e reduce the angle between the saw handle and your arm as much as possible. So as you draw back on the saw it is less likely to drift. It took me a few goes to get it right, but it works very well🙂
If you notice there are modified teeth at the top and bottom, the top one is for finish of ten on and such as it is aligned with only the first cutting tooth, leaving no perf Mark. The bottom on is for starting saw perf next to straight edge.
I've seen lots of videos on Japanese saws as of late. I noticed sometimes you can purchase saws specifically listed as " for hardwood". Is this important if you are cutting into hardwoods, or is it ok to buy the "regular" listed Japanese saws? And can you use to cut into softwoods to with these "hardwood" saws. I don't see a lot of UA-cam videos mention the specifically designed hardwood Japanese saws or if you have to go through the trouble of buying it specifically to cut into hardwoods. Your thoughts? thx
Thanks for the information, I've just bought a Japanese saw waiting on its delivery its a Gyokucho how durable are the blades I'll not be using it every day just occasionally for whatever I need to cut, I'm hoping I'm better with it than your normal European saw lol.
They will last a long time so long as you don't abuse them, I have mine 3 years and they are still good
All the craftsmen of the past whose prized furniture is in museums and people travel to see them and admire, didn't knew about these miraculous Japanese saws. Pity.
I didn't quite catch the sarcasm in your comment. Please elaborate.
@@LitoGeorge I was given on of these dual edged saw by a friend, I used it as a novelty, then one day out of no reason (to me), while ripping a piece of soft wood I badly cut my little finger of left hand. What I did was that out of habit I momentarily held the upper ripped portion for just a meaningless support which I have been doing for the past 50 years, 75 now, the proper hand saw, pull or push, would always said hello to my finger if it lightly touched but this was a Samurai. They cut fast but would you do when the crosscut teeth are dull, you have to take a university degree in kung-fu to sharpen them. They may be good, I do agree but not that good enough that we should praise them as the only good saws, my times ending new disposable times come that's the cycle 😉 😀.
You can find really good quality Japanese saws that can be sharpened, but they generally require an expert to do it, so the cost of sending it to Japan ends up making sharpening more expensive than just buying a new one which is why outside of Japan it makes much more sense to get the saws with the replaceable blades. I don’t know how much expertise is required though...maybe it’s possible to learn to do it yourself which could make getting the other version worth it.
Indeed you are correct. In addition, you need to use the correct size feather edge file to sharpen the teeth. Remember, though you can’t (shouldn’t) sharpen replaceable blades ..these are high frequency impulse hardened to last up to 7 years before replacement is required.😎
@@MrSteamDragon Is there any benefit to using sharpen-able blades aside from cost of replacement? It's hard to imagine sharpening costs low enough that the reusable blades become cheaper unless it is fully automated by machine. Does anyone still get theirs resharpened? or is it something people actually learn to do themselves? Do they get somehow sharper?
@@RichardBuckman Hi Richard, a benefit of sharpening your own blade? I guess if you have the skills/tools to do it yourself then a quicker turn around would be the obvious benefit; you don’t have to shop around or order a new blade. Are replaceable blades better? I cant offer an opinion on this one but I would assume a craftsman who is proficient at the task would be able restore the blade to it original condition. From my experience (albeit limited) with japanese saws is that good quality replaceable blades cost roughly half that of the original saw. And those blades are touted to last 5-7 years before needing to be replaced, so the value for money isn’t that bad. At the end of the day I think its a personal preference. Some may even chose to resharpen because they enjoy the experience. It’d be interesting to hear other’s peoples views. Cheers from Oz 🇦🇺
Very nice. You’re generous with your knowledge.
May I say, the name Gyokucho has just THREE syllables (That’s “tree” to you, sir. A bit of Irish humor; please forgive me.)
The first syllable is [gyo]. Say it as a single thing. Think of the English saying “suit.” Hear how they throw in a little “Y” sound after the “s”?
Next comes [ku]. This is what the doves do: coo. However, a “ku” syllable is often just aspirated, like the “k” without the “oo” part.
The last part’s the most straightforward: [cho] is the last part of nacho.
Gyo-ku-cho. I admit I’m not entirely sure where the accent goes, but I suspect it’s on the [gyo], believe it or not. This would end up sounding like two syllables: gyok-cho.
It’s no wonder we round eyes say guy-oh-coo-cho.
Think of the English saying “suit.” Hear how they throw in a little “Y” sound after the “s”?
I'm English and definitely don't do this! Although I do know what you mean, it's really only one or two specific English accents that would say it like that
i like Japanese sauce, especially with my sushi.
This is the purchase link of the item in the video：www.amazon.com/dp/B085HGMH3G
I’m from japan your pronunciation is not bad
good to know thanks
oh my god fix the outro music volume i got scared
about your hand position, the best way to use japanese saw is back and downward, instead of just backwards. Another coment: the superloud music is screws up with the viewer's confort.
Thanks for the feedback
g-yo-koo-ch-oh I'm told.
Another Toyota from Japan. Cruel killer saws.