Base Unit Battle! Rover P6 vs Citroen DS: Part Two, Road Test!
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- This battle takes to the road, as I compare the Rover P6 V8 3500S with the Citroen D Special in Tasmania. Part One here: • Base Unit Battle! Rove... I manage to pretty much avoid any conclusion because I'm a wuss. I love both!
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Exactly mate...you just nailed it with: "how did we get away from the cosseting suspensions of older cars?". Ans as you say, both cars also had excellent road handling.... Today's cars are a torture on less than perfect roads surfaces...
Agreed
'Torture'? Sounds s bit 'drama queen' to me.......!
You have automotive journalists to thank for that.
@@andymccabe6712 Ever heard of hyperbole as a figure of speech? Probably not, because they don't teach that in internet school.
I think it's a mixture of a dumbing down of the term " handling " , the Clarksonisation of car reviews, cost cutting and making cars idiot proof.
The Nurburgring has destroyed the softly sprung yet good handling car, apparently we all.want race car on the road. And really hard seats that mean you can't sit with anything in your back pocket. Sorry for the rant, great content as always Ian. Thanks
Yes. The press wants everything track worthy. I don't drive on a track.
James May was right.
The motoring press demands that every car nowadays has a 'sporty' suspension and handling at the expense of comfort and today's car seats are like sitting on wooden benches. With today's pothole ridden roads we need more cars that are comfortable like old Citroens.
I remember the first time I sat in a Volkswagen. Horrid.
Worst I experienced was a recent Audi S4. Horrendous ride.
I drive a five year old Citroen and it has lovely comfortable seats and ride...!
My Picasso is now 17 years old, no probs with comfort, but unlike the Audi A4 I had on lease a few years ago, the Citreon has no pretense that it has to go anywhere super quick.
Agree. Suspensions seemed tuned to satisfy motoring journos who want to throw a car round a track and have maximum fun for their test drive, whereas most people want a nice comfortable suspension for their daily commute. Or is it a German thing? Cars are tuned for their market of autobahns and smooth roads and to hell with anywhere else? Who knows.
Although I really like the P6, the DS is a work of art to me. It seems so light and airy in the cockpit. I’m sure you felt ‘joie de vivre’ inside. I think the DS could work as a modern day redesign even 😄
When you think of what was around when the DS was launched, it was like something from another planet. Excellent vlog as always Ian .😊
I've been waiting for this. In the late 1960's I was a mechanic in a local garage and we had a DS for service some one pushed the car against a wall unknown to him was the fact the car rose up when started and the boot was under a sink when it was started next day it rose up and pulled the sink away from the wall and we had to repair the body damage.
You think that's bad . In France,during the early days of this Citroen (ID 19 ), many a cat got crushed in winter time,on cars parked outside. The cat would go under the car to keep warm from the central muffler,no one told the cat that the car slowly sinks to almost no ground clearance, because the hydraulic pressure is slowly released from the suspension back to the hydraulic tank under the bonnet. That is why the cars always look so low when they have been parked for a few hours.
@@RussEdgar445y7tlfjHee Hee. I have to think about that with mine as our dog loves getting under the car to warm herself on the exhaust. Another bit of trivia. When the first DS came out they gave them to employees to test drive. One employee parked beside a LH kerb, got out of the LH drivers door and locked the car up overnight. In the morning the car had sunk down and he could not get the door open because of the kerb. They did not have a key lock in the passenger side. They then fixed that by having key locks on both sides.
Two reasons for the front handbrake. The other is that being trailing arm, you can't lock the rear wheels as it would prevent the car from being able to sink or rise.
@@HubNut Only an 'issue' if parked in gear as other wise the front would move forward/backward accordingly. Even so, it wouldn't be an issue - and maybe it'd have been a good idea for the parking brake to disable height control and fix it where it was to avoid all the other potential problems - either fixed at height or at zero pressure - so it sank quickly to its resting state. Also heard of varying height cars moving such that they reduce handbrake application pressure resulting in cars rolling away !
I do wonder how many door bottoms got jammed on low walls with sinking cars !
@@RussEdgar445y7tlfj We once had a truck parked, handbrake off for a few days. Then moved it a short distance and found the handbrake didn't work - the valve being stuck in the off position after being standing so long like that.
In the early 70s, a truck was parked nearby and somehow its brakes failed while unattended and it rolled down a hill, crossed a road, and continued diagonally down the road it was on until it ran into a terraced house.
Either of those cars could make me very happy. However, while a good example of either is an absolute joy, a poor example of either is a world of pain.
Two of my favorite cars. The Rover's brilliant engineering was undone by British Leyland's horrific manufacturing methods. But when it was running right the Rover was luxurious and very fast. I also owned a D-Special, just like the one shown here, with a beautiful four-on-the-column shifter. The Citröen was like no other car. Once you've owned one, no matter what comes after, you will always miss the big Citröen. Watching this delightful comparison reminds me how fortunate I was to drive in the 1960s.
Superb head-to-head, Ian. "Deliciously different... different is good". Well said. Please also thank the owner of the two cars - in such super condition - kudos. I agree completely about the uncomfy harsh firm ride of modern cars. Why? Was it 'idiot motoring journalists' taking comfy road cars on test tracks and trying for fast laps, and also lurid tail slides for front page photographs - and then complaining the suspension was too soft!? I don't know. Great video, good camera positions, great driving and excellent commentary. Many thanks. Best wishes.
Completely Agree!
You have a point there, about the "idiot motoring journalists". They never understood the greatness of the hydropneumatic suspension. (But the DS was also a great car in many rallies)
Motoring journal cists like Clarkson et-al have had a ridiculous thirty year obsession with walloping every car round a race track like overgrown boy racers, I stopped watching top gear and others because of this, I hope that one day we may get back to a more grown up approach, maybe car designers/manufacturers will then have the courage to present us with a truly comfortable car (that isn't a Rolls Royce or a Bentley ) in future ?
That Citroen was beautiful love it the stile the grace of driving that for me I'd feel like royalty as the rover brilliant video ian
The Citroen was so far ahead of it's time and truly individual design of the likes we will never see again. But I have to say the aesthetics of the Rover both inside and out are more to my taste, not to mention that wonderful V8.
You hit the nail on the head there Ian about ride and comfort . Considering the awful road surfaces we have at the moment. Not only do we have cookie cutter car designs at the moment, but nearly every car has rock hard seats and suspension. Fortunately my 03 S80 I have at the moment has a lovely smooth ride..
The DS is a dream car. Unique design. Two friends drove a DS from Bergen, Norway to Senegal (!) some fifteen years ago. A charity rally Budapest - Dakar. What an adventure! But I do find the hydraulics scary, at least for a DIY guy. And a five speed gear box is a must. I like the elegant, understated Rover as well, of course. But I remember when Norwegian car owners used to buy a LOT of UK cars. Then build quality issues with BL (and also, Vauxhall) made many people switch to Japanese cars. Rovers were not uncommon on our roads 40 years ago, suddenly they all disappeared. While most German and Swedish cars soldiered on. A sad demise of a long-lasting car buying tradition.
The hydropneumatic suspension is not that hard to work with, especially on the DS, it's fairly simple and has less fragile parts that are prone to failure than newer Citroëns
But you do have to speak french or know someone who does in order to find certain spare parts
I remember when the P 6 Rover came to Aust, I had an Uncle who bought one, it was a luscious car beautiful to ride in and had the lovely smell of leather
I have owned 4 cars (among many others) which I consider the best road driving experiences of my life: The Rover 3500S, the Citreon ID, the Peugeot 504D, and the Jaguar XJ6 (1971). Passengers in the Rover with me compare its take off the line to taking off in an aeroplane. Build quality could have been better, but a sweetheart car. The Citreon also had quality problems but when it ran right it was magnificent - except the engine, underpowered and a little rough. The Peugeot 504D was a delight, suspension, handling, and a smooth diesel. The Jaguar towers above all, except of course build quality, but perfect handling suspension and a beautiful hemi straight 6, impressive to look at but demanding frequent maintenance were its dominant characteristics. Good video, loved it - brought back these memories.
That Citroen must have been pure science fiction when it was released.
It was pure science fiction when I encountered one with Quebec license plates in Maine about 40 years ago. Only one I've seen to date. Seeing the car rise to standard height after starting was an experience I have never forgotten.
Lots of new technology in that car. Firs with turning lights in corners.....
My grandfather was 42 years old when this car was released and even though he never had the chance to buy one he was still talking about it 40 years later
So the 'Retardistanis' banned it!
Not the easiest car to get recovered after breakdown, I know
My DS21 is a semi-auto - anytime you want to drive it Iain it’s yours!! 😃 Now that a D has been in HubNut I may have to invest in some merch!! 🤣
The DS is an iconic car, no doubt about it, French engineering genius! As the owner of a P6 3500, I've always been a fan of the DS- which inspired the Rover engineers when they designed the P6. Two truly outstanding cars. Happy motoring Tristan! :)
Wow. Nearly had tears in my eyes watching this. I grew up in the DS as my father was a manager for Citroen in Paris. I fondly remember the holidays to the south of France effortlessly cruising in the 21. We immigrated to Perth when I was 10 in 1976 and I ended up owning 2 V8 P6s there in the late 1980s. The automatic 3500 and the 3500S which I fitted with the far superior SD1 5speed. Both were immaculate and the manual was in the dark brown like the one here. So this was very special for me. Thank you
This brought back fond memories for me, My dad had a 1972 2L TC P6 that took us on our family summer hols all over Europe in the late 70's and whilst there, I remember being fascinated by the DS that were a common sight on the roads of France ... I never appreciated how much they had in common ..
Column gear shifters were outstanding, my dad had a Renault 16, I love the shifter, far more natural than a floor shifter.
Very much depends on the manufacturer! Some column shifts are awful.
Yeah, loved the old R16 shifter. If felt so much classier changing gear like that. R16s were comfort machines too.
Agreed - my first car was a 16TL, the gearchange was superb. Much better than the 18 I replaced it with; it took until getting to a BMW E34 to find a gearchange that matched it.
@@PedroConejo1939 My father preferred my 16 to his Mk. IV Zodiac - a lovely old barge in its own right.
Yeah, my mate had a late Zodiac. Amazing to slide about the back in but I prefer the R16 too.
Isn't it great when you've just watched part 1 and part 2 gets posted!!
I was waiting with bated breath for the second part of this one.
The marvelous P6 is one of the most underrated cars of 60s-70s.
I actually prefer the 2200 TC to the 3500 or 3500S, but I must admit that typical rover V8 burble is attractive
Well said. I prefer the V8.
I think pretty much most of Rovers and British Layland’s cars were underrated.
It seemed more popular to mock them, rather than appreciate them - for no other reason than, just because.
@Steve Terry Well OHC does add complication. You need to add chains or belts to drive them. Actually I think I prefer the (short) push rods in this case.
Michael B
It’s hard to preciate anything from BL. They had all the possibilities but only managed to ruin the british motoring industry. Lousy quality control and products noone wanted.
A bit more P6 commentary - Our local P6 guru told me that one of the things done to get the V8 into the P6 was to widen the front track, and that this slightly compromised the geometry and handling. I've got two P6's, being a 2000TC and a P6B (automatic), and I think he's right. My 2000TC seems much more 'sports saloon' and my late P6B more 'executive barge'. However I've yet to own a 3500S, which from all accounts is the best of the lot. Cheers and thanks for another great video Hubnut.
I was 8 yrs. old in 1956 and lived in a terraced house. My mother’s uncle lived next door and he worked in a local family owned business. The owner used to visit him quite often and he drove an Armstrong Siddeley Star Sapphire which always captivated me. Coming home from school one day I turned onto our street about 100 yards from our houses. Someone had parked a spaceship outside uncle Tommy’s. His boss had bought a DS and this was my first encounter with one. I’ve no words to describe my utter amazement on swing this futuristic object. My friend’s dad had a Ford Prefect ( sit up and beg model), my dad had a 1939 Austin 8, they could have been stagecoaches compared to this unbelievable piece of engineering and design. I’ve been a Citroen devotee ever since. It’s heartbreaking to see what has become of this visionary company but at least they still exist (for now), Rover have unfortunately disappeared. Just to address that constantly leveled accusation of rolling into corners, what do these reviewers expect from a car built for comfort? In real world driving I would much prefer a relaxed, comfortable journey of 100 miles or so rather than a hard riding, bum breaking frenetic rev box in which to travel. I’m sorry but the likes of Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche et al leave me totally cold. Will we see a definite preference of one over the other in episode 3? You should really Ian as both these cars have well deserved admirers and are such “strong meat” as to inspire a preference. I’m not asking which is the best, only which you prefer.
Need an early XJ review now, please.
This is really one of the very best test videos out there. Greta stuff. Thanks!
Having owned 4 P6's ( 2x 2000, 2x3500 auto) previously I think number 5 has to be on the shopping list. My original series 1 2000 was great, low reving, tons of torque and would pull in top from ridiculously low speeds. You mention the handling and I was working at Rover at the time and living in Redditch which has lots of roundabouts, the old 2000 could easily be drifted out of them of under power, great fun, safe and predictable. The contemporary road test reports used to refer to the P6's "sports car handling" (bearing in mind a sports car at the time was an MGB).....
Both cars beautifully cared for.would love to have a drive of them.
There is no way to choose between them. They are both wonderful for all the reasons already said. Makes me feel so nostalgic. Cheers
Thank you for doing this, I've always wanted to see these two tested back to back. Both brilliant cars in their own unique way.
Alway great to see someone enjoying the work in these strange times
Thank you. Very fortunate to be sitting on a backlog!
Well these two videos are the high water mark of the Hubnut antipodean car tests. Two such interesting cars and a brilliantly informative commentary. So much more fulfilling to have a compare and contrast than just a review of a single car. And what fabulous cars! You really couldn't say which was better so I totally agree with your conclusion. I love the slim pillars of the DS, it's suspension the rear wheels location and it's sharklike shape. The Rover has that huge overhanging boot which isn't pretty. But the Rover's ride, handling and engine set a benchmark and still feels poised and modern. David Bache was at his zenith when he came up with it. First class.
Deux magnifiques voitures un bonheur à l'oeil, merci beaucoup pour la vidéo :)
Loved that Hubnut. So glad we did not have to wait too long, the suspense was killing me.... :-)
Both cars are marvellous in their own ways, but as I've lusted after the DS since my mid/late teens, my vote just has to go to the Goddess. Ace vid as ever, Ian. :)
Hey Ian, I wanted to tell you that I love the show, I’m a transplanted Brit from Birmingham living in Nebraska USA. Your show brings back a lot of lovely memories of the cars we owned. I like the fact that you are so down to earth, and your honesty about the cars is refreshing. We owned both of these cars, just different models. and they both had a distinctive charm. I was amazed at the ride comfort in the DS Citroen and how thick the carpets were especially in the back of the car. I honestly didn’t like the look of the car at first because we had a Gold CX. before this DS. (I loved the look of the CX) but After having the car for a while I loved the car and it’s distinctive looks . It’s nice to own something that looks a little different from every other cookie cutter regular car. And this is probably why I own a scion XB today. Cubism is cool! Lol. This is a great comparison video. We had the 4 cylinder baby blue Rover 2000 due to gas costs. I liked the ride in the River also. It also has a nice look and stance. The Rover didn’t have the world class soft ride of the DS but it still had a nice ride for the car. they are both amazing cars in their own right. . Thank you for bringing back some great memories. Keep up the good work. God bless.
How enjoyable was that? In 1987, I bought a '72 P6 2000TC for the grand sum of seventy pounds! In Mexico Brown like this one. I ran it daily for two years and was one of the best cars I ever owned. Didn't Rover want to put the rear lights on top of the D-post, a-la-DeeEs, until Citroen objected? The Citroen's great, if a little whiny on the move, and waiting for the car to rise before setting off is a bit ridiculous. So, it's P6s for me all day long. Thanks, Ian, for great entertainment.
Another treat, both such desirable classics. Gosh that P6 is superb though so quiet with go, the 3500S really is wonderful. Thanks for another great test Mr H.
Amazing that these cars designed so long ago, deliver such a good ride and handling.
Great review, Ian! I said "Yes!" out loud when you asked why modern cars all ride like s---. I've been hammering my DSafari for 6 years and I'll never be without one now... I'm building a DS for my friend and a Rover 3-litre for my sister, so I'm only slightly sad that you beat me to this terrific comparison, haha! Please stop in if you are ever "in the neighbourhood"... Cheers from here!
Would love to visit if I ever manage to skip my way across the pond. Cheers!
In my grandmothers' village near Bruges in Flanders, I remember a physician called Dr. De Rover. He drove a Rover P6 -remembering the sound it must have been a 3500 - while in Belgium any English car except for the mini was rather an exception.. As a child I was so impressed by this man who had a car called after him. And by the car as well. Rover in Flemish means 'robber' ....
Next advert slogan from Citroën:
Citroën: More floaty. 😎
Please send royalty cheques to HubNut.
P6 for me I had a 3500s, white, beige leather, brown sills and a short gear knob registration GOR 457 K . An early car with the high compression engine which I sold when I moved to Switzerland. It was very low mileage and immaculately maintained. It went to a great friend of mine he had it expertly tuned and on premium petrol with lead replacement additive he saw 177 bhp on the rolling road! It was deceptively fast on the motorway 100mph cruise absolutely no problem except it had a full webasto sun roof and the four speed box meant it could be a bit noisy.... as a waft-o-mobile for pootling about with the sun roof fully open.. just the bees knees. Youngsters in their “sorted” motors were more than once surprised and open mouthed if you really opened the taps on them! Downsides? Slightly cramped in the back for anyone over 6’ and when pressing on it could get a bit floaty over a hundred mph. I changed all the shocks and springs for OEM so they were up to speck. Once on the M74 driving home to Glasgow from mid Wales and late at night I was passed by p5 v8 coupé, I was cruising at an indicated 85mph, it was being driven by a silver haired lady who it seemed could only just see over the wheel! That coupé was flat out I followed it for quite a way she was doing well over a hundred! She turned off at Abington and I carried on to Glasgow! Must have been in the late nighties. I was very impressed! Thanks for your video Mr
Hubnut :-)
Nah......certainly no cop out. how could you possibly say one is better than the other! Two wonderful motor cars indeed. Thank you, great video.
Been doing 10,000 miles a year in my P6 V8 both summer and winter. Perfect practical classic.
Great video thanks Ian! My two favourite cars together at last. I had a '73 P6 3500 but lusted after an S. One day...
I used to work on rovers in the mid 70s , i must admit i loved driving the 3500s rover, nto many owners realised there was a hidden tool kit in dashboard, ofter used to get the double ended screwdrivers from the kit !1
This brought back memory's. I had a 1975(N-plate) 3500 auto in that brown, and my father had a 1974( L-plate) DS super 5.
Brilliant...two of my all time favorite classic cars in one video, just love the colour of the DS, lovely interior, thank you Ian, fantastic video
Great series and much appreciated. My first car was a P6 2000 TC and my fourth a D Special, followed by a DS21 BVH and, later, a CX and another DS. All passed on to others now, but all missed. A look at the BVH 'Citromatic' would be great if you can get your hands on one. Your series on the GSA is great too, those are even less (like never) seen here in the US than the Ds and P6s.
OK, THAT DOES IT, I need to get my P6 going again.
Please do a video diary of you getting your P6 back on the road 😁
@@plym1969 Yes, can do. 👍
Same here with my P5B
Thanks Ian, If I had to choose between the P6 and DS I prefer the P6 better, because of the V8 and it's more conventional suspension. The DS is a beautiful car, but it's hydraulic suspension is a liability and an expense. If it malfunctions the car will not drive, whereas the P6 doesn't have that problem. Citroen invested it's efforts into building an the amazing hydraulic suspension, when they could have installed a V8 and a more conventional suspension and probably sold it for the same money, and that I think would have be better. Never the less, I am always impressed with the old Citroens, they're very French, very cool and I like them.
In the late 70's an old P6 was the second car I ever owned but it was also, as you so rightly say, one of the most comfortable cars of the time, or any time and with great handling. Mine was a mere 2200TC, the interior was identical with tan leather seats but with a white body - fun late at night coming up behind a boy racer as the police were just retiring them as traffic cars... happy memories.
I owned a Renault 5 in the early 80's, the original, directly imported from France so a different color from the usual American LeCars. The ride on that tiny car was so great, seats so comfortable! Both of my parents owned Peugeot 504's at the time, equally comfortable. My Nissan SUV has rock-hard seats and a ride to match. I think it's a generational divide between concentrating on comfort and what kids today like...
Still recall staring in awe at a DS as a child on holiday in Hastings. We were staying at the same hotel as a French family in the early 70s who had one parked outside. And when the suspension rose at the back, to me it was like something out of a sci-fi movie. Guess I was easily pleased at the time!
My mother had a red P6 V8, which I drove a lot. I adored it. My Dad had a XJ6 which I didn't like as much, the Rover seemed more alive. The reserve petrol control on mums car gave you about another 500 yards before it konked out!
The picture switch from DS to P6 perfectly contrasts the interior differences between these two beauties. A great comparison between two utterly relaxing and stylish drives.
"Following a DS down the road is like you are following Darth Vader". 😂 Love both cars regardless.
I remember as a child in the '70's, Christopher Lee drove a black DS in one of Disney's Witch Mountain films. I thought it was pretty futuristic back then. Thanks for the memories Ian, much appreciated 😎
What a fun test, the best.Two superb cars, refined, classic, fun, different. Still relevant to day and what a shame we dont get such suspension compliance today.
Give me comfort over speed any day. I had a rover 2000 sc and a v8 loved them both.
Got to love the DS! One of my dream cars.
A great video(!); I think I would, by a small margin, go for the Rover; (as an aside, the SD1’s live axle had a torque tube, like the 505 estate)
I went to test drive a 1973 DS that was advertised for $2500 in Salt Lake Tribune classified ads back in 1981. Great thanks to gentleman selling it to let a 17 year old punk take it for a most memorable test drive. I have only seen maybe 1 or 2 other Citroens in the USA since then.
A friend had a P6 3500 auto late 70's/early 80's. Loved the V8 rumble and the oomph. I then got a DS 21 Pallas with the semi-auto box. I so enjoyed that car, but hadn't the knowledge, time or funds to keep it as I would have wanted. The great pity of these cars was the agricultural power plant when everything else was so exceptionally refined. Given the chance, I would like to take a DS and find a way of slipping a smooth 6 cylinder under that hood. It so merits the silky quietness of 6 cylinder to make it close to perfection. I don't know about the blue one you have there, but the Pallas had a twin horn: position one for town, pull it further back and you got the benefit of a twin air horn to carry you through the bigger roads. And lastly, if you have never driven the semi-auto, I defy you to work out how to start it :)
if you have never driven the DS semi-auto, you don't know the DS !
Hi Ian, awesome video,nice road test on these two,the P6 Rover were used as a police car,for cornering they stuck the road well,the Citroen handled is well too.
I love that DS in that colour and interior trim!
I love both and have owned a DS23 Pallas and the Rover...went on to a P5B....endless trouble but it was almost worth it..all fabulous and couldn't decide...great video thank you :)
Two of my favourite cars in one video -- brilliant! I had 2 P6's long ago, but never a DS. Did have 3 GS's though!
Ah the GS, wonderful car!!
Various family members had a range of P6s during the late 1960s early 1970s, they were great cars. Not without their build quality faults, my favourite of which was the vinyl roof that filled with air at high speed. As a child, I remember being a passenger in a P6 V8 doing 100mph for the first time, naughty naughty.
Autocar did this very comparison in the 70s as a "Best Used Buy" test, probably after the arrival of the CX and SD1.
The conclusion was essentially that some people like a Citroen and others like a Rover.
Interesting comparison. As I think I've mentioned in another of your videos, I owned a P6 V8 automatic back in the early 1980's and loved it to bits. It was a bit thirsty around town and a bugger to park as it didn't have power steering, but I used to get 28 mpg on a run and it was a joy to drive with bags of power and a lovely smooth ride. I've driven a DS a couple of times and found it a bit strange, only because it's such a different experience to a "normal" car, but there's no doubt that it was years ahead of its time. Here in Spain they're known as the "Tiburón" (shark) because of their shape.
This short series of 3 videos is arguably your best work yet. Seriously good work Ian, I really enjoyed these.
The recess in the top of the dashboard, under the RV- mirror on The D Special is in fact the original mount of the radio speaker!
Another great review Ian. Thanks for the details with two beauties.
My father had a yellow (not sure exactly what Rover called the colour) P6 in the 80's when I was a kid. It was a 3500 S manual. He adapted an SD1 5 speed box to fit. Apparently it was pretty much a straight fit, except for a bit of machining to reduce the length of the propshaft. I loved that car. I also loved his other Rover at around the same time. A 1983 SD1 3500 SE Police Spec. Meaning poverty spec, in the pursuit of the lowest possible weight. It was a South Yorkshire motorway patrol car, bought from auction at around 3 years old.
Like HubNut, I am baffled as to why we are expected to suffer the iron hard suspension of modern cars. I have only had one German car, an Audi 100GL, it was horrid. The suspension was harsh, yet it rolled on corners, and the seats had less give than orange boxes, and that's before I get started on the dire reliability. Why I accepted it I do not know, but I didn't keep it long and having been a passenger in BMW's, VW's and Mercedes, I would never buy another German car. I quickly discovered and enjoyed the comfort of French suspension with a string of Renault machinery. I had 4's which were very comfortable and heeled over hilariously on corners, 5's were similar, although the TS wasn't quite so roly-poly. The 12 was a nice compromise between soft ride and excessive roll, indeed I rallied a 12 for a couple of years, but the finest Renault of all was the glorious 16. I had a TL with the late 1565cc engine. It rode the rough East Anglian lanes in magnificent comfort, and while it was a roly-poly cornerer, I well remember having a lot of fun through a set of roundabouts at the expense of a (not very well driven) MK1 Mexico. Sadly the corrosion destroyed the rear suspension mountings and it went the way of so many of it's kin. Like the DS, the R16 had a superb column gearshift as well.
Yes, those torsion bar mounts sent many a 16 (and a 6) to the car park in the sky. My father however rescued mine, I am pleased to say :)
After day of hard work from home, watching a video of cars I hope to drive myself one day (I don't think I will ever own one) is a real treat. Thank you for this video Ian.
I wanted a Ds for 14yrs then moved to Australia where there was a place that restored them 5min away, that made me want one even more. When I moved back to Manchester I bought myself one and 2yr into a full restoration. Absolutely fantastic cars. I also wanted a P6 strangely!! F.E
"bimbiling" (c) 2020, HubNut Industries
James May summed up hard modern suspension a while back on Top Gear ... all cars these days are 'tested' on the Nurbergring. Great video
I remember being bewitched by the DS at Earls Court 1955. Just imagine, across the way was the Vanguard Mk III and the Jaguar 2.4 which was ok but Laurence Pomeroy described as being like doing 100 mph in a Tudor cottage. A pity the DS wasn't the semi-auto. Early UK manual Citroens had a crazy column shift with first towards you and down, up for second, down and down again for third and up for top. Ideal for blowing your engine up. Strange how so many people didn't know the areas of commonality. I saw the P6 screen frame at the dealers on announcement day and thought "that's pure DS." All the other similarities soon became clear.
Wow, fancy actually being there to see the DS launch! As they say, it looked like it had come from another planet. Citroen took so many orders that they had no hope of fulfilling. I think it was a white car with a black roof spinning on that circular display. Just Wow.....again.
I should have pointed out that almost 1.5 million of the DS family were produced compared with 320,000 P6s. I always felt that Rover favoured a waiting list to indicate exclusivity. Compare with Peugeot who churned out more than 3 million of their excellent 504.
The v8 version of the rover which was standard issue to the filth with its auto gearbox was completely different. I know, I used to travel in one many years ago. It was very smooth, was a pleasure to ride in it from the back seat. My old boss Tommy had one and he did a journey from Harwich back to London in under two hours. Well smooth! I think he said he was touching 120 mph.
The autos were only good for 112mph, though I guess a little speedo inaccuracy and a tail wind would allow a little more.
@@HubNut Plus a little exaggeration from my boss! A Dagenham lad!
I have saved these two videos for a chilled zone, this is awesome.
Ian, enjoyed both parts of this road test comparison very much! Thankyou.
I remember the DS well as a kid from the early 60s - even then it stood out as being decades ahead of its time, at least in body design, with quite a few interesting and unique engineering innovations as well, apparently, if not the actual engine itself. I love those seats and the interior as well. Stylish, or what? That you are driving one six decades later, are suitably impressed, says volumes.
Great, enjoyable road test. Both excellent cars. I agree the P6 was a fine handling car, you could take to it's limits without fear of the thing tripping over it's self, as I found with my Series IV Super Snipe, you can go round corners quite fast in my Series V strangely due to anti-roll bar on the rear! Would love to drive a DS one day.
I had a 72 DSuper with a 5 speed manual gearbox. A big improvement on the 4 speed version that tended to whine a bit. I had it for 13 years and it was a joy to own and drive. No other car attracted as much attention as the DS.
The first model DS had even more plush suspension than the later models - though all of them are amazing to drive. As James May of Top Gear fame said "It's like driving on a bed of fluid". Quite.
This brings back some great childhood memories. My friends dad had a P6 and he would often offer to give us a lift to our junior school. And he was someone that never hung around when driving. Great fun, i was jealous because my own dad only had a little Austin 1300. But i have to agree, whatever happened to comfort in cars? Modern cars just jar you over every bump, and the extra firm seats do little to absorb it. I reckon more millennial's should get to drive some of the older cars, make them realise what comfort should be in a car.
Totally Agree!
Correct! In all the modern cars in which I have climbed (from friends and family) I see that there is a lot of technology and screens and security, but ... when they ask me in which car I prefer to go on a trip, I choose a car from the 70s- 80-90. The comfort of the seats, the upholstery, that pleasant smell and the simplicity of the controls, I do not change for anything. I have a Range Rover Classic, 1990, 3.9 V8 Vogue. It is a thousand times more comfortable than any modern car in which you only have hard seats, bad upholstery and the smell of plastic. I fully share your opinion.
Very interesting comparison . I am getting to quite like P6s . I knew nothing much about them but they have been growing on me , thanks to Classic Britain channel.
I also love the DS . I ABSOLUTELY LOVE COLUMN CHANGE. Love manual on the column. Have always had vehicles with column change , (Commented below).
Also - the DS was Leonard Cohen's car of choice. His own personal car was a DS . (For anyone into Leonard Cohen) .
Unfortunately, never had the chance to drive one of these two cars, but if you tell Ian, it should be a great drive.
I have a 1959 Mk1 Jaguar, a 1983 XJ6 and a 2005 X Type. The ride on a Mk1 is lovely, the XJ6 is simply sublime and the X Type is nice, but much harder than the older Jaguars which soak up some shocking Australian roads perfectly.
Both are absolutely awesome - however the Citroen would be the one I take home. The colour is fab. Superb video Ian - really made my day!
I had one of the last ones of the 3500s manuals, a lovely car and many trips around the UK in it. I tried to find another one in the 90s but couldn’t find one that didn’t need a ton of work on it. We do give up the soft suspension for a firmer ride these days but cars from the 70s just didn’t handle like they do now. The 3500 was about 195hp if I remember and nowadays a 1.6 turbo Astra GTC has the same hp, things have certainly come a long way.
In the 1973 Rover V8 automatic I had I really couldn't tell whether the engine was running when driving around town at 30MPH. I let the tank run out more than once, relying too much on the presence of an auxiliary tank. The car just slowed down, with no perceptible change in sound. It was quite a disturbing feeling. The little sound I heard was dominated by road noise.
The Ciroen hydropneumatic suspenison has the very best roadholding combined with the best comfort! Nothing that simple coil springs ever can rival! And it has norhing to do with "soft suspension" at all. The hydropneumatics is much more advanced than that, and no conventional system today even comes close!
P6 side light tops - is probably the feature about the cars I most remember.
Friends of my parents had a white P6 - and I guess mention Rover cars and I think that was the car that always came to mind.
I have loved the comparison. They are two beautiful cars. I decide on the Rover P6 as I am very British when it comes to vehicles.
As a detail, I have noticed that you wait for the green light with the first gear engaged and the clutch depressed in the DS. There is no need, neutral point and engage when it must.
Thanks for the video! Greetings from Spain!
Cheers.
Just so right Ian. How did we get there? Stiff rumbling suspension aweful stiff seats. Just "sports" no comfort. Why do you need a racecar when you travel on public roads???
Just two awesome classics....always voting for the DS but you gave me a different view on the Rover.
Sports my ass. Modern cars give no feedback through steering or brakes... They weigh too much to feel anywhere near sporty. Not sure what you think a sports car is but a Triumph TR-6 is a good example.
Fantastic. Boy is the DS engine rough. The 4 cyl variant of the P6 is famously not the smoothest but easily beats the DS.