I know you have limited time to make these episodes but the byplay and interjections of "minor" details that lengthen them bring the battle alive. Thanks to all of the participants for their willingness to share their knowledge.
My good neighbour "Derby" Ray Munroe was a gunners mate on HMAS Shropshire, actually loading the battery during this battle. He said that the radar on the Shropshire was the best there was at the time, it gave them an edge and kept them safe. HMAS Shropshire was a replacement for the Canberra, which was badly damaged by the Japanese attack, at Savo Island but actually sunk by U.S. torpedoes. "Derby" sailed on HMAS Shropshire from its refit at Chatham docks through the Solomons , Leyte, all the way to Tokyo Bay. Thank you for giving the Shropshire a mention, I know Ray was proud to serve on her.
I exchanged a few letters with Mac Gregory several years ago; he was a junior deck officer at the time on Canberra, and said he was able to step off the deck directly onto the destroyer USS Blue some time after the battle. She wasn't sunk in the action, of course, but was ordered to be scuttled the following day.
@@warrenklein7817Perhaps unsinkable, but still certain to have been blown to pieces. After the beating that had been sustained, the right choice was made here at the time.
I swear the boys here could yap for the next few days straight and I would still be glued to their presentation. Nice touch withTony, outstanding effort as usual Seth. From Australia
Seth, Bill, Jon, Tony and other assorted guest lecturers: thank you for giving us the modern day version of Victory at Sea (Pacific War), with all the nerd details collected since the war! This will be a treasure for future generations of when the United States was at its peak in cohesion, manufacturing and education. I’m always amazed at how the US Navy was able to teach millions of American men mathematics to do their jobs in aviation, navigation, radar and gunfire, but today believe two plus two doesn’t always equal four. Thanks again!
Happy to see Jon Parshall and Tony Tully. Tony Tully is Coauthor with Jon Parshall of Shattered Sword and partner of the web site "combined fleet" which I have spent many hours viewing.
"Combined Fleet" is an excellent website about the IJN! The uncredited (Tony?) article about the comparative industrial capacity/output is classic and jaw-dropping.
I have to say that Admiral W. Lee's message of "Stand aside, I'm 8:43 coming through" sent from USS Washington before delivering the righteous, mighty Panche of the US Navy. Ranks up with that of John Paul Jones and Admiral Farragut in annals of our Navy
No you guys didn’t just leave me hanging like that. You telling me that I have to wait another week to hear how part 2 of the battle went. It’s a good thing that I already know the outcome of this battle because you guys would have had me in the hospital with all this anticipation. Let me stop I love you guys for what you do because I’m also a geek and I love to hear and read about the United States pacific naval battles. Y’all doing a fabulous job and please keep up the good work. I am definitely your # 1 fan from day one!!!
Seth, Bill, Jon, and Tony. A great episode. The way you all interact, play off one another, and respect each other along with your knowledge of the subject and the unbridaled enthuseasm each of you show made the hour and eight minutes go by like 10 minutes i couldnt believe it had already been an hour. I absolutly cant wait for next week to get here. I agree with another commenter who said yet another classic for the ages. Kudos, gentlemen. This will be a treasure for future generations. TY for preserving our history in this manner. PS This was my introduction to Tony and I am a instant fan of his, bought his book while i watched the episode!!!
They know what they are talking about. Interesting historians . For you Yanks earlier in the Pacific war the SW in 1942 in Midway and Bismark Sea saved AUS . The blood and treasure expended hasn't been forgotten . Hence AUS went from UK to USA focus from 1942 onwards Hence your closest ally since From AUS
Wonderful. As Regent of the Woodburn Chapter WVDAR in Morgantown, WV, it was my/our honor to nominate Forest Jackson (Jack) Bowman for the NSDAR's Historic Preservation Medal a year ago. As WVU Student Body President in 1959, Jack learned of the soon scrapping of the USS West Virginia (Mountaineer Battlewagon, WeeVee). He contacted the Navy to get "something significant" for the WVU campus. They offered the mast, but stipulated that we were responsible to get it from Washington state to Morgantown, WV. After a lot of phone calls and the help of US Senator Randolph and Congressman Staggers, the B&O RR agreed to ship it for free. It arrived in Morgantown on March 17, 1961, but was not erected until May, 1963 (the end of my freshman year). Not only did Jack receive the award, but the NSDAR President General asked that she present it to him on the opening night of the DAR's 132nd Continental Congress on the stage on Constitution Hall in Washington, DC. It happened. The mast stands sentinel over the downtown campus. Every Pearl Harbor Day, a ceremony is held at the mast . That mast has served to keep the story of the USS West Virginia alive in the State. The bell near the mast is from the first USS West Virginia, renamed the Huntington, to free up the name. This ship's bell is in Charleston, WV.
Best cliffhanger yet in an episode. I was chomping at the bit, waiting for the cruisers and battleships to go and I get cut off and Seth says tune in next week. Left me hanging. I may get up at four in the morning to look at next Tuesdays episode.
Finally got around to reading Shattered Sword. What an excellent, well written, comprehensive book. And it's a thrill that you have both the authors sharing their knowledge with us. Great show, as always. Can't wait for part 2, next week. 😁❤
Guys 1:03:40 - Tony illustrates (as a normal part of conversation) one of the things I love about content from true historians - he acknowledges the difficulties in interpreting things. He has (a translation of) the record, but warns not to assume that the record / translation is definitive. The translation could be vague, or use idiosyncatic language, or the guy who wrote it could have been wrong. So much depth in the content you provide, explaining why things happened and the larger situation. Like last weeks discussion of center force lacking aircover (which i had heard before) and putting in the context of massive air losses during the air battle of formosa that caused the shortage
Again, a really fine episode. Thanks! The biggest lesson for me was the Japanese command structure. Most previous descriptions of this action treat Shima sa a follow-on to the Southern Force and Shima comes off as incompetent for his actions. I'm really looking forward to next week!
Ooooh nooo! To Be Continued.... like when Pappy on Baa Baa Blacksheep had to land on Bouganville with malaria. Dammit Seth I was on the edge of my seat...😢
Some of these unauthorized podcasts really get me going, with Seth and Bill telling it, I can see it happening and I get overly excited, my wife worries about it....
Funny story. I had a mini-reenactment of this battle on World of Warships with my Fuso charging the opposing team's West Virginia. It went about as well as expected. Also for the air attack earlier. Enterprise: Hey Mogami, long time no see. Mogami: OH GOD WHY?!?!?!?
The IJN had a design philosophy what they would usually/normally be smaller in number, and thus needed each ship to be qualitatively superior. so, e.g. the Fusos were 23 Kn when the usual battleship speed was 21 Kn (except for the Queen Elizabeths). The Fusos had twelve 14" guns when ten was more common (until the USN Pennsylvania and following 14" classes). The Fusos' secondaries were 6" where the USN BBs had 5"/51s. Fast-forward to WW2, the Fusos and following class Ises were too slow to steam with IJN carriers. Had the Fusos stayed with the "Center Force", they would have slowed it significantly. So detaching Fuso and Yamashiro made sense on that level. Very glad to see/hear Tony. His book is excellent and very recommendable!
I have and read Mr. Tully's book "Battle of Surigao Strait" several times and it is a great read. What is also great is to listen to the author speak about his book. In my view it makes the experience more special. Thanks again!
Excellent episode, as we are used to by now :) Especially cool for those children of the 1960's like me who joined "The Cult of the PT Boat" back when their exploits and ideal of incredibly brave, swashbuckling, non-conforming sailors captured the naval popular culture. In later years we realized their actual victories were not as numerous as the movie and TV hype made us believe... But what could equal that anyway? And the amazing examples of courage remain.
Wonderful discussion by all of the participants. I wanted to comment on Bill's mention of a turning movement in relation to a land battle. I think the Japanese plan was more akin to a trait of many of Napoleon's battles. He often would engage the enemy flanks with turning movements in the hope of weakening the center. Then he would launch a coordinated assault on the center, such as he tried at Waterloo. The "Center Force" of Kurita being the naval version of the "Old Guard" moving in for the decisive attack on the "weakened center" to deliver the coup de grace. That's my humble opinion. I appreciate that Bill thinks outside the box though for a former submariner. Good work by all. Can't wait for part two!
This team only gets better. Kudos, men, on your alliance with such great experts on your show! You never cease to amaze me also with you candor, humor, and humility.
Absolutely enthralling story. Thankyou from Ulladulla Australia. Arunta I believe was the first Tribal built in Australia, named after the Arunta People of Central Australia. Cheers Gentlemen.
I've been listening to this particular battle on the audible version of Vincent O'Hara and Trent Hone's book Fighting in the Dark: Naval Combat at Night 1904-1944.
Yes! I kindly pray you cover the WV action report of the battle, yes, I mean the part where it’s actually written in the log how the gunnery officer “chuckled” reporting the first salvo hits.
Just beginning to watch from SC. I have a suggestion for a future show or two....WW2 was the most captioned war with photographs. Many of these photographs many of us who seen them over the years, have no idea whom some of these Marine's and soldiers were? Many photo's some very famously seen through last 70+ years, there is no name, did they survive, units, campaign's etc... I'm sure Seth has a lot of insight on many of these photographs of the unknown (to us) and it would be so awesome to put names with the faces.
Thank you for your terrific pod. Bringing us both authors of "Shattered Sword", Mr. Tully and Mr. Parshall, is an excellent source for this compelling history. Seth, Captain Toti, Jon and Tony thank you for sharing all of your hard work with us. Side note: I've read "Shattered Sword" twice and pull it out for reference. Superb book. Great show, much appreciated.
I've been looking forward to the gang's discussion of Leyte Gulf, especially this show and next week(presumably) on the Battle off Samar. I have always heard that naval tacticians' ideal situation was to "cross the T"where you can bring all of your guns to bear broadside while the enemy can only engage with his bow guns. I'm not aware of too many occasions where this happened since the age of sail? What in my opinion made this battle especially compelling was that most of Oldendorf's battle line were Pearl Harbor survivors, such as the battleships West Virginia, California, Tennessee, Maryland and Pennsylvania. However, Nimishura's fleet was already heavily damaged by the torpedoes of the pincer of destroyers, the Mark 15 torpedoes finally working.
quote> When Mississippi discharged her twelve 14-inch guns at Yamashiro at a range of 19,790 yards, at 0408 October 25, 1944, she was not only giving that battleship the coup de grâce, but firing a funeral salute to a finished era of naval warfare. One can imagine the ghosts of all great admirals from Raleigh to Jellicoe standing at attention as [the] Battle Line went into oblivion, along with the Greek phalanx, the Spanish wall of pikemen, the English longbow and the row-galley tactics of Salamis and Lepanto. Samuel Eliot Morison < unquote
You know, this is one of the only battles I can think of where a destroyer does what destroyers were built to do: protect a force of battleships operating in coastal waters from enemy torpedo boats. Even 50 years later *Shigure* charging around pinning PT boats with searchlights and driving them off with gunfire worked exactly as Admiral Fisher envisioned it would.
Another sterling episode folks. Fun to see Tony in the mix. Really lively discussion and interaction. "Greater than the sum of its parts" is the phrase here. Great dynamic.
Surigao Strait Battle 1944 Pennsylvania BB-38 , Tennessee BB-43 , California BB-44 , Maryland BB-46 , WestVirginia BB-48 and Mississippi BB-41 Vs Fuso and Yamshiro : the Last greatest and biggest Dreadnoughts Battle during the History !!! 5 old WW1 US Dreadnoughts saved at Pearl after 1941 , and Repairing , Updating all of them , that's Unbelieveable Miracle in just 2 or 3 years during the War , looks like two different ships between 1941 and 44 , but all of those 5 old Pearl Dreadnoughts were the Same Ship hull , which means FDR have a very powerful WarShips Repairing and Updating technology during the WW2 , isn't it ? （ and just thinking about the USS Yorktown CV-5 repaired in 3 days under the Nimitz order for the Midway 42 , why the US navy have such a so powerful ship Recovering Tech during the WW2 , I don't understand about it for a long time ）Surigao Strait 1944 , it's the Greatest Naval Art by Admiral Oldendorf , just like another Classic Jutland in the Pacific WW2 , Well Done Admiral !!!!!
Hey Bill & Seth, Your Annapolis gig coincides with the anniversary of ANZAC Day ie Gallipoli landings. I know the USN study this 1915 fiasco as a metric on what not to do In amphibious operations. Are you guys covering that subject at all? Also great to see the mention of USS Houston and HMAS Perth in this podcast. Those two ships and crew really demonstrated resolve facing overwhelming odds. Surely you will eventually cover some of the not so obvious battles of the Pacific War such as Singapore, Timor, Borneo et al, and the elephant in the room- China?
So I start watching this episode and I’m thrilled to see Tony since I own and love his book on Suriago Straight. I’m thinking this is going to be epic. You get started and it’s awesome. Seth, Bill, John, Tony talking and I’m in Pacific War Nerd Heaven. As we get closer to the engagement of the heavies I’m like this isn’t just good. It’s going to be Second Naval Battle of Guadalcanal with Ching Lee and Washington good. And then you just stop???? I’m like are you mad??? You can’t leave us hanging for a whole week!!! Do you think your audience doesn’t want 3-4 hour videos are something?? You think you can milk one battle into multiple weeks or something!!! It’s utterly outrageous!!! Ok but seriously I do get it but this is going to be a long week waiting for the next installment. Great great work as always.
"Machine gun cruisers", USS Boise and Phoenix were Brooklyn-class, with five triple turrets, while Denver and Columbia were Cleveland-class with four triple turrets.
My new favorite channel! Great information, really enjoy the back and forth among the participants. Everyone brings something to the table here. I never realized how badly the IJN's destroyer ranks were depleted by this point in the war, and how that negatively impacted IJN's ability to conduct offensive operations and defend the capital ships later on. Without adequate DD support, US submarines just savaged the IJN's heavies in '44: Taiho, Shokaku, Kongo, Shinano, Atago, Takao, Maya, Unryu.
I had no idea that Capt. Toti had been enlisted (which no doubt made him a much better leader as the black shoe had been on the other foot). Thanks to all four of you for a terrific episode. I really enjoyed the "nerd out" on the radar set capabilities.
I'm a Navy veteran and worked on radars, I love the discussion of WW2 radar tech! Thanks! BTW, it's wild that the Commodore was once the same rate as me when enlisted, an ET. lol Thanks for the great history tales!
Don't forget to plug Tony's excellent Surigao Strait book! IIRC WeeVee, California, and Tennessee had the mk8 while Maryland, Mississippi, and Pennsylvania had the mk3. Thia was due to their rebuilds. As they'll probably discuss in the next episode, their firing volume reflected this. Spoiler alert, Mississippi only fired once and Pennsylvania didn't fire at all IIRC. It'll probably get lost in the shuffle but I also want to mention during the battle of Leyte Gulf Aoba, Kinu, and Uranami tried to run 3 transports to Ormac Bay on the otherside of Leyte Island from were the Americans were landing. It wasnt a good time for them courtesy of Breem. Also, while not technically part of the battle of Leyte Gulf at the Sametime as Surigao Strait to the northwest between Luzon and Formosa (so not far away) O'Kane's Tang was ambushing a convoy heading to Japan. This is where the mk18 would circle back sinking Tang. This was happening at the same time as Surigao Strait. Yes, it was a busy night around the Philippines. US subs were very busy in the area, not just Darter and Dace. USS Nashville was also in the area. This was MacArthur's flagship.
I know you have limited time to make these episodes but the byplay and interjections of "minor" details that lengthen them bring the battle alive. Thanks to all of the participants for their willingness to share their knowledge.
Bill, Seth, Jon, AND Tony? Let’s gooooo
My good neighbour "Derby" Ray Munroe was a gunners mate on HMAS Shropshire, actually loading the battery during this battle.
He said that the radar on the Shropshire was the best there was at the time, it gave them an edge and kept them safe.
HMAS Shropshire was a replacement for the Canberra, which was badly damaged by the Japanese attack, at Savo Island but actually sunk by U.S. torpedoes.
"Derby" sailed on HMAS Shropshire from its refit at Chatham docks through the Solomons , Leyte, all the way to Tokyo Bay.
Thank you for giving the Shropshire a mention, I know Ray was proud to serve on her.
I exchanged a few letters with Mac Gregory several years ago; he was a junior deck officer at the time on Canberra, and said he was able to step off the deck directly onto the destroyer USS Blue some time after the battle. She wasn't sunk in the action, of course, but was ordered to be scuttled the following day.
I wonder why Canberra wasn't run aground and left as an unsinkable gun platform to defend Guadalcanal from the frequent bombardments.
@@warrenklein7817Perhaps unsinkable, but still certain to have been blown to pieces. After the beating that had been sustained, the right choice was made here at the time.
I was beginning to think that Tony was a figment of Jon's imagination. Really looking forward to this episode.
I swear the boys here could yap for the next few days straight and I would still be glued to their presentation. Nice touch withTony, outstanding effort as usual Seth. From Australia
Episode 123.
This one is up there with the Guadalcanal series.
Seth, Bill, Jon, Tony and other assorted guest lecturers: thank you for giving us the modern day version of Victory at Sea (Pacific War), with all the nerd details collected since the war!
This will be a treasure for future generations of when the United States was at its peak in cohesion, manufacturing and education.
I’m always amazed at how the US Navy was able to teach millions of American men mathematics to do their jobs in aviation, navigation, radar and gunfire, but today believe two plus two doesn’t always equal four.
Thanks again!
Yet another classic for the ages. Kudos, gentlemen.
Lest We Forget.
🦀 🇦🇺 ✌️
Go Aussie
Happy to see Jon Parshall and Tony Tully. Tony Tully is Coauthor with Jon Parshall of Shattered Sword and partner of the web site "combined fleet" which I have spent many hours viewing.
"Combined Fleet" is an excellent website about the IJN! The uncredited (Tony?) article about the comparative industrial capacity/output is classic and jaw-dropping.
@@petestorz172q qt
Amen. I cannot 11:45 11:48 identify a better historical foursome !!! Good work , gentlemen !!!
I have to say that Admiral W. Lee's message of "Stand aside, I'm 8:43 coming through" sent from USS Washington before delivering the righteous, mighty Panche of the US Navy. Ranks up with that of John Paul Jones and Admiral Farragut in annals of our Navy
It's so great to see Tony as well as Jon. I'm still speechless after reading "Shattered Sword".
I reread it about once a year.
I just finished watching The Bloody Hundredth. About 12 minutes in I heard a familiar voice--and then he appeared--Seth Paridon!
My dad was a seaman first class on the WeeVee and was there. Really enjoyed this podcast.
Awesome episode as always! Welcome Tony. I come for Jon's shirts and stay for the history.
I watch for the wallpaper.
Great to have Tony.
Now we know The Rest of the Story.
So YOU are the author of that clever quip linking shirts and history. My tee shirt drawer does that, too.
No you guys didn’t just leave me hanging like that. You telling me that I have to wait another week to hear how part 2 of the battle went. It’s a good thing that I already know the outcome of this battle because you guys would have had me in the hospital with all this anticipation. Let me stop I love you guys for what you do because I’m also a geek and I love to hear and read about the United States pacific naval battles. Y’all doing a fabulous job and please keep up the good work. I am definitely your # 1 fan from day one!!!
This and Taffy 3 are the naval battles from the Pacific that I love the best!
This is the definition of naval nerding out. I want more.
This is up there with Episode 123, So glad that Tony joined ya'll.
Open Fire!!!
Great presentation thank you 😊
Seth, Bill, Jon, and Tony. A great episode. The way you all interact, play off one another, and respect each other along with your knowledge of the subject and the unbridaled enthuseasm each of you show made the hour and eight minutes go by like 10 minutes i couldnt believe it had already been an hour. I absolutly cant wait for next week to get here. I agree with another commenter who said yet another classic for the ages. Kudos, gentlemen. This will be a treasure for future generations. TY for preserving our history in this manner. PS This was my introduction to Tony and I am a instant fan of his, bought his book while i watched the episode!!!
Always look forward to Tuesday mornings but this week is going to be very long. Thank you for Sharing and to Tony for joining in.
I couldn't agree more. I wanted to wait until next week, so I watch the 2 episodes back-to-back. But I couldn't wait 😏
Casually adding the world's leading expert on the subject at hand is quite the flex for this podcast/channel.
Tony is my son’s godfather. What a special talent he and Jon possess and share.
They know what they are talking about. Interesting historians . For you Yanks earlier in the Pacific war the SW in 1942 in Midway and Bismark Sea saved AUS . The blood and treasure expended hasn't been forgotten .
Hence AUS went from UK to USA focus from 1942 onwards
Hence your closest ally since
From AUS
Merch idea - authentic Jon Parshall shirts!
I'd buy one!
🤣🤣 I'd buy one & wear it proudly!
Wonderful. As Regent of the Woodburn Chapter WVDAR in Morgantown, WV, it was my/our honor to nominate Forest Jackson (Jack) Bowman for the NSDAR's Historic Preservation Medal a year ago. As WVU Student Body President in 1959, Jack learned of the soon scrapping of the USS West Virginia (Mountaineer Battlewagon, WeeVee). He contacted the Navy to get "something significant" for the WVU campus. They offered the mast, but stipulated that we were responsible to get it from Washington state to Morgantown, WV. After a lot of phone calls and the help of US Senator Randolph and Congressman Staggers, the B&O RR agreed to ship it for free. It arrived in Morgantown on March 17, 1961, but was not erected until May, 1963 (the end of my freshman year). Not only did Jack receive the award, but the NSDAR President General asked that she present it to him on the opening night of the DAR's 132nd Continental Congress on the stage on Constitution Hall in Washington, DC. It happened. The mast stands sentinel over the downtown campus. Every Pearl Harbor Day, a ceremony is held at the mast . That mast has served to keep the story of the USS West Virginia alive in the State. The bell near the mast is from the first USS West Virginia, renamed the Huntington, to free up the name. This ship's bell is in Charleston, WV.
This is going to be so good.
Thank you so kuch Bill, Seth, John and Tony!!!
Best cliffhanger yet in an episode. I was chomping at the bit, waiting for the cruisers and battleships to go and I get cut off and Seth says tune in next week. Left me hanging. I may get up at four in the morning to look at next Tuesdays episode.
Man I know how you feel!!!!
Man I know how you feel.
Holy smokes! All hail to Jesse O and his bad boys. Gripping, fast paced, informative dialogue. Another terrific episode. Thanks for the memories.
Wonderful guys! I can't wait for the next episode!
Surface action with PTBoats, destroyers, cruisers and battleships wow! Can’t wait until next episode.
This is awesome thank you Bill Seth Jon and Tony.
Finally got around to reading Shattered Sword. What an excellent, well written, comprehensive book. And it's a thrill that you have both the authors sharing their knowledge with us. Great show, as always. Can't wait for part 2, next week. 😁❤
As a Louisvillian thank you Bill for the mention of CL/CA-28, very proud of her service. Great show guys.
Always outstanding, thank you Gents!
Gentlemen always a pleaure to see your outstanding content.
Good afternoon. All your podcasts are fantastic. I have learned so much from them. Two of my friends think the same. Thank you for being patriotic
Guys 1:03:40 - Tony illustrates (as a normal part of conversation) one of the things I love about content from true historians - he acknowledges the difficulties in interpreting things. He has (a translation of) the record, but warns not to assume that the record / translation is definitive. The translation could be vague, or use idiosyncatic language, or the guy who wrote it could have been wrong.
So much depth in the content you provide, explaining why things happened and the larger situation. Like last weeks discussion of center force lacking aircover (which i had heard before) and putting in the context of massive air losses during the air battle of formosa that caused the shortage
Again, a really fine episode. Thanks! The biggest lesson for me was the Japanese command structure. Most previous descriptions of this action treat Shima sa a follow-on to the Southern Force and Shima comes off as incompetent for his actions. I'm really looking forward to next week!
So glad to see Tully here too! Welcome aboard, Tony.
Been watching older episodes. Bill, glad your voice and breathing seem better.
Jesse Coward was skipper of USS Sterrett during the Barroom Brawl off Guadalcanal. He learned that lesson firsthand in the world’s toughest classroom.
Ooooh nooo! To Be Continued.... like when Pappy on Baa Baa Blacksheep had to land on Bouganville with malaria. Dammit Seth I was on the edge of my seat...😢
You want it to be over already???? (Those are the choices after all)
Some of these unauthorized podcasts really get me going, with Seth and Bill telling it, I can see it happening and I get overly excited, my wife worries about it....
The highlight of my week!
Brilliant, thank you.
Got to agree with Jon, love the look of IJN ships, and the names, and....
Funny story. I had a mini-reenactment of this battle on World of Warships with my Fuso charging the opposing team's West Virginia. It went about as well as expected.
Also for the air attack earlier.
Enterprise: Hey Mogami, long time no see.
Mogami: OH GOD WHY?!?!?!?
Not again!!
Look, the Luck Vampire is nearby.
This won't end well, boys!
Holy cow what a line up!!!!
The IJN had a design philosophy what they would usually/normally be smaller in number, and thus needed each ship to be qualitatively superior. so, e.g. the Fusos were 23 Kn when the usual battleship speed was 21 Kn (except for the Queen Elizabeths). The Fusos had twelve 14" guns when ten was more common (until the USN Pennsylvania and following 14" classes). The Fusos' secondaries were 6" where the USN BBs had 5"/51s. Fast-forward to WW2, the Fusos and following class Ises were too slow to steam with IJN carriers. Had the Fusos stayed with the "Center Force", they would have slowed it significantly. So detaching Fuso and Yamashiro made sense on that level. Very glad to see/hear Tony. His book is excellent and very recommendable!
I have and read Mr. Tully's book "Battle of Surigao Strait" several times and it is a great read. What is also great is to listen to the author speak about his book. In my view it makes the experience more special. Thanks again!
Excellent episode, as we are used to by now :) Especially cool for those children of the 1960's like me who joined "The Cult of the PT Boat" back when their exploits and ideal of incredibly brave, swashbuckling, non-conforming sailors captured the naval popular culture. In later years we realized their actual victories were not as numerous as the movie and TV hype made us believe... But what could equal that anyway? And the amazing examples of courage remain.
Great show gentlemen.
Another Thankyou from Oz.
Wonderful discussion by all of the participants. I wanted to comment on Bill's mention of a turning movement in relation to a land battle. I think the Japanese plan was more akin to a trait of many of Napoleon's battles. He often would engage the enemy flanks with turning movements in the hope of weakening the center. Then he would launch a coordinated assault on the center, such as he tried at Waterloo. The "Center Force" of Kurita being the naval version of the "Old Guard" moving in for the decisive attack on the "weakened center" to deliver the coup de grace. That's my humble opinion. I appreciate that Bill thinks outside the box though for a former submariner. Good work by all. Can't wait for part two!
This team only gets better. Kudos, men, on your alliance with such great experts on your show! You never cease to amaze me also with you candor, humor, and humility.
Absolutely enthralling story. Thankyou from Ulladulla Australia. Arunta I believe was the first Tribal built in Australia, named after the Arunta People of Central Australia. Cheers Gentlemen.
I read many J E Macdonald novels as a teenager and I think that he called our Tribals, "young cruisers"!
Daylight savings is finally working for me in Arizona, you start an hour earlier- I can finish an episode before work👍
As a former FC, I just loved the need talk of magnetrons, and klystrons, radar ranges. It was beautiful ❤
Jon's shirts are amazing! Lol...puts a smile on my face or as the captain says "makes my heart flutter"! Btc/sw retired
Man, I could listen to you guys for hours!
Good thing because we talk for hours.
I've been listening to this particular battle on the audible version of Vincent O'Hara and Trent Hone's book Fighting in the Dark: Naval Combat at Night 1904-1944.
Damnit. I have to wait a week.
Yes! I kindly pray you cover the WV action report of the battle, yes, I mean the part where it’s actually written in the log how the gunnery officer “chuckled” reporting the first salvo hits.
My uncle, a chief radar technician, was aboard USS Phoenix at this battle. Unfortunetely, I didn't learn this until after his passing.
I have a 1/350 Fuso in my living room. Those ships are outrageously beautiful and the definition of navy kink
Revenge is also quite delicious when it's served piping hot.
Another great episode guys. 👍
Seth, Bill, Jon, & Tony.😊
🇺🇸 Thank you. 🇺🇸
Just beginning to watch from SC. I have a suggestion for a future show or two....WW2 was the most captioned war with photographs.
Many of these photographs many of us who seen them over the years, have no idea whom some of these Marine's and soldiers were?
Many photo's some very famously seen through last 70+ years, there is no name, did they survive, units, campaign's etc...
I'm sure Seth has a lot of insight on many of these photographs of the unknown (to us) and it would be so awesome to put names with the faces.
A good old fashioned cliffhanger! I can’t wait until next week. Fantastic education and wonderful entertainment.
Thank you for your terrific pod. Bringing us both authors of "Shattered Sword", Mr. Tully and Mr. Parshall, is an excellent source for this compelling history. Seth, Captain Toti, Jon and Tony thank you for sharing all of your hard work with us. Side note: I've read "Shattered Sword" twice and pull it out for reference. Superb book. Great show, much appreciated.
I've been looking forward to the gang's discussion of Leyte Gulf, especially this show and next week(presumably) on the Battle off Samar.
I have always heard that naval tacticians' ideal situation was to "cross the T"where you can bring all of your guns to bear broadside while the enemy can only engage with his bow guns.
I'm not aware of too many occasions where this happened since the age of sail?
What in my opinion made this battle especially compelling was that most of Oldendorf's battle line were Pearl Harbor survivors, such as the battleships West Virginia, California, Tennessee, Maryland and Pennsylvania.
However, Nimishura's fleet was already heavily damaged by the torpedoes of the pincer of destroyers, the Mark 15 torpedoes finally working.
Next week is the Battleship showdown of Surigao Strait.
Samar is in two weeks.
I think.
1) VELLA GULF 2) SURIGAO 3) Jutland
Great group. Best history talks I have listened to!! Thank you all
Thanks! Another eager anticipated Tuesday
Great video guys. The PT Boats are greatly underestimated by the Japanese. 😅
Last time I was this early Nishimura still had all his ships.
quote> When Mississippi discharged her twelve 14-inch guns at Yamashiro at a range of 19,790 yards, at 0408 October 25, 1944, she was not only giving that battleship the coup de grâce, but firing a funeral salute to a finished era of naval warfare. One can imagine the ghosts of all great admirals from Raleigh to Jellicoe standing at attention as [the] Battle Line went into oblivion, along with the Greek phalanx, the Spanish wall of pikemen, the English longbow and the row-galley tactics of Salamis and Lepanto.
Samuel Eliot Morison < unquote
Thank you for a good episode.
You know, this is one of the only battles I can think of where a destroyer does what destroyers were built to do: protect a force of battleships operating in coastal waters from enemy torpedo boats. Even 50 years later *Shigure* charging around pinning PT boats with searchlights and driving them off with gunfire worked exactly as Admiral Fisher envisioned it would.
Jon always dresses for Torpedo Tuesday. It's like he is always in the Pacific somewhere. Can't wait for part 2.
Bill's maps really add a lot. Another really superior episode. At least Tony knew why a BB would have depth charges. Welcome aboard, Tony
Another sterling episode folks. Fun to see Tony in the mix. Really lively discussion and interaction. "Greater than the sum of its parts" is the phrase here. Great dynamic.
Surigao Strait Battle 1944
Pennsylvania BB-38 , Tennessee BB-43 , California BB-44 , Maryland BB-46 , WestVirginia BB-48 and Mississippi BB-41 Vs Fuso and Yamshiro : the Last greatest and biggest Dreadnoughts Battle during the History !!! 5 old WW1 US Dreadnoughts saved at Pearl after 1941 , and Repairing , Updating all of them , that's Unbelieveable Miracle in just 2 or 3 years during the War , looks like two different ships between 1941 and 44 , but all of those 5 old Pearl Dreadnoughts were the Same Ship hull , which means FDR have a very powerful WarShips Repairing and Updating technology during the WW2 , isn't it ? （ and just thinking about the USS Yorktown CV-5 repaired in 3 days under the Nimitz order for the Midway 42 , why the US navy have such a so powerful ship Recovering Tech during the WW2 , I don't understand about it for a long time ）Surigao Strait 1944 , it's the Greatest Naval Art by Admiral Oldendorf , just like another Classic Jutland in the Pacific WW2 , Well Done Admiral !!!!!
Jon continues with shirt excellence.
Great hairstyle and facial upholstery, too!
Fantastic 😍
YES. IT'S HERE.
Hey Bill & Seth,
Your Annapolis gig coincides with the anniversary of ANZAC Day ie Gallipoli landings.
I know the USN study this 1915 fiasco as a metric on what not to do In amphibious operations.
Are you guys covering that subject at all?
Also great to see the mention of USS Houston and HMAS Perth in this podcast. Those two ships and crew really demonstrated resolve facing overwhelming odds.
Surely you will eventually cover some of the not so obvious battles of the Pacific War such as Singapore, Timor, Borneo et al, and the elephant in the room- China?
John, you're 300% center bullseye with pagoda kink!
My best friend's dad was aboard USS West Virginia in this battle. He was in the engineering spaces.
🤘🏻Metal as always, fellas ♥️
Podcast into music is "Quiet Triumph" Taizo Audio..................many thanks Captain.................
So I start watching this episode and I’m thrilled to see Tony since I own and love his book on Suriago Straight. I’m thinking this is going to be epic. You get started and it’s awesome. Seth, Bill, John, Tony talking and I’m in Pacific War Nerd Heaven. As we get closer to the engagement of the heavies I’m like this isn’t just good. It’s going to be Second Naval Battle of Guadalcanal with Ching Lee and Washington good.
And then you just stop???? I’m like are you mad??? You can’t leave us hanging for a whole week!!! Do you think your audience doesn’t want 3-4 hour videos are something?? You think you can milk one battle into multiple weeks or something!!! It’s utterly outrageous!!!
Ok but seriously I do get it but this is going to be a long week waiting for the next installment. Great great work as always.
Great content
Thank you guys for doing this. It's so great.
"Machine gun cruisers", USS Boise and Phoenix were Brooklyn-class, with five triple turrets, while Denver and Columbia were Cleveland-class with four triple turrets.
I've been looking forward to this episode. There is very little information online about this particular battle.
You need to read Tony's book on the battle. It's the most detailed account out there.
Thanks for your thorough and fun repporting.
My new favorite channel! Great information, really enjoy the back and forth among the participants. Everyone brings something to the table here. I never realized how badly the IJN's destroyer ranks were depleted by this point in the war, and how that negatively impacted IJN's ability to conduct offensive operations and defend the capital ships later on. Without adequate DD support, US submarines just savaged the IJN's heavies in '44: Taiho, Shokaku, Kongo, Shinano, Atago, Takao, Maya, Unryu.
My father was on the Mississippi at this time. I spend a lot of time searching for info on this battle. Thanks guys.
I had no idea that Capt. Toti had been enlisted (which no doubt made him a much better leader as the black shoe had been on the other foot). Thanks to all four of you for a terrific episode. I really enjoyed the "nerd out" on the radar set capabilities.
Great episode!! I'm really looking forward to next week's follow up episode.
I'm a Navy veteran and worked on radars, I love the discussion of WW2 radar tech! Thanks! BTW, it's wild that the Commodore was once the same rate as me when enlisted, an ET. lol Thanks for the great history tales!
Great episode! 4 box looks good on you guys.
Very interesting presentation. Thank you gents!
Don't forget to plug Tony's excellent Surigao Strait book!
IIRC WeeVee, California, and Tennessee had the mk8 while Maryland, Mississippi, and Pennsylvania had the mk3. Thia was due to their rebuilds. As they'll probably discuss in the next episode, their firing volume reflected this. Spoiler alert, Mississippi only fired once and Pennsylvania didn't fire at all IIRC.
It'll probably get lost in the shuffle but I also want to mention during the battle of Leyte Gulf Aoba, Kinu, and Uranami tried to run 3 transports to Ormac Bay on the otherside of Leyte Island from were the Americans were landing. It wasnt a good time for them courtesy of Breem.
Also, while not technically part of the battle of Leyte Gulf at the Sametime as Surigao Strait to the northwest between Luzon and Formosa (so not far away) O'Kane's Tang was ambushing a convoy heading to Japan. This is where the mk18 would circle back sinking Tang. This was happening at the same time as Surigao Strait. Yes, it was a busy night around the Philippines. US subs were very busy in the area, not just Darter and Dace.
USS Nashville was also in the area. This was MacArthur's flagship.