We had those far right yesterday night in Bournemouth. The far right was in much smaller numbers than those welcoming the immigrants. Nothing happened, no one was locked up, not throwing of rocks, bricks, or logs. I think the protesters were surprised with the police force and the lady with a megaphone and people that actually were there to counter them.
There will always be more “good people” than “bad people” in normal circumstances. The point is not to create the social conditions that encourage rioting. Pursuing mass immigration against the will of a large section of the public for 30 plus years and then systematically moving poor third world migrants into the cheapest parts of the country while simultaneously pursuing a cultural program of downgrading, deconstructing and demoralising the core ethnic group of the founding nation - is not exactly the best way to go. This is not going to go away
My Gran was always negative and depressed about the world, the level of crime and all the foreigners taking over. One day I spoke to he and noticed she was unusually cheerful. I asked my mum what was up, and she said her Daily Mail subscription had run out. This lasted for about six months until one of her neighbours took pity on her and started to bring her the Daily Mail daily. Within no time she was back to the depressed, grumpy and fearful self. Not an empirical study, but still found it fascinating to watch.
Ha! My mother-in-law was the same, low-key agitated by eyeroll stories like schoolboys being forced to wear skirts, drag queens doing storytime, 'bush foods' proliferating in our marketplaces. She took it all as gospel, and sadly her subscription never ran out.
I remember much older sister complaining a good few years back that she couldn't get a hearing aid because of the Afghan refugees. It was hard for me not to burst out laughing, but then I realised her daily paper was responsible for this nonsense just as it was when she said she feared what would happen to her grandchildren in future!
Its because they don’t inform themselves broadly and independently on the internet. If they did that they would be furious. Thats whats missing from you assessment. The reality of the country and learning what the government has done to betray you and your future is why they riot. Conversely the left does the exact same fashion to whip up animosity towards those who would defend your way of life. You of course make no comment there
My folks, both in their 80's are readers of the Daily Moan. Nothing I say will move them from their "England was better in the old days" They conveniently forget all the "darkies" who work tirelessly in the NHS, the East Europeans who pick their veg etc.
What's the difference between your gran's situation and the depression felt by a female Guardian reading student who believes that publication's assertion that the world's woes are entirely down to white supremacy and toxic masculinity.
When will Rory and Alistair ever have a detailed conversation about the effects, both positive and negative, of immigration? Based on current british numbers. I have listened from episode 1 and it has NEVER been discussed or approached with clarity
They’re both on the left of politics so any discussion about migrants and immigration is strictly off the table. If you don’t understand that you need to do your homework.
@ianbarnes8593 so do you. Saying something doesn't make it fact. Rory is right wing or right of centre Alastair is left wing. Both believe in a free democracy. If that's left 9f where you are then you are a fascist.
The problem with sharing misinformation being a crime. Is who gets to decide what is misinformation? Because it can only be the Authorities or the Established Media. And everyone may want to think about what would have happened if 'sharing misinformation was a crime" in the following cases: Hillsborough, The Miner's Strike. the Grooming crimes. And maybe also note that all these three incidents are the Authorities screwing up in relation to Northern communities.
Your taxonomy of rioters seems to omit opportunistic criminals looking to take advantage of a stretched police resource…how does looting help the ‘ideological cause’?
Regardless of whether there are anarchists or lunatics joining in they are adding strength to the racists/islamaphobic who are the forefront of this movement and it's impossible to differentiate in the short term
I normally appreciate your insights, but I find your dismissive attitude really disappointing on this issue. This hasn't happened out of nowhere. It's a Tory government that repeatedly promised to reduce immigration for votes, but never did once elected. It's a Brexit vote that was implicitly about immigration being won... and then there was even more immigration. You refuse to engage with that because it would be uncomfortable, but until people do the tensions will continue to boil over.
Not come up suddenly and yet all these years no riots-sorry protests, for them to only suddenly happen a month into a new government. Must be a coincidence.
But they did mention how the Tory government repeatedly trying to imply that immigration is a problem and the utterly toxic Brexit debate trying to demonise and other certain groups absolutely was a factor that played heavily into this.
It's no coincidence that this has come out of the industrially devastated towns and cities of the North of England. Both of you served governments that failed to address the lack of investment and the easy way industry and foreign investment could extract high wage employment from these areas. The Tories have consistently shouted with pride lower taxes while decimating public services. You have also never seriously addressed immigration concerns in areas immigrants are sent to simply because they are run down. The north has waited and waited for tickle down, while the south gets HS2 and cross rail etc etc. To not accept any responsibility as part of the political elite is ridiculous. Now the excuse will be there is no money. Well, we know there is as banks full of it in the Channel Islands, British Virgin Islands, and Gibraltar, but no, we can't touch that less the city of London might cough. This isn't going to go away. These people voted Reform and have less than a handful of MPs, while Labour has a huge majority based on 20% of the eligible vote. People are more unhappy than you, and the rest of the media can get close to understanding. You helped set the system that insists on weak unions, zero security of employment, minimum hour contracts, worst pensions in Europe, and no social housing for young men. They are expected to work long hours with no security for crap wages to be handed to wealthy landlords and then be thankful? Wake up.
Yeah I noticed a dismissal of 'these are people who were economically abandoned with no prospects' as some kind of right wing rhetoric. That is what led to this.
@luvdasitar I guess you don't know the "type" of young man I am talking about. Let me offer you an insight. Matthew left school with no formal qualifications, having had learning difficulties with dyslexia his whole schooling time. He was offered support two hours a week, but in a class of 34, it didn't make a lot of difference. Since leaving, he has worked as a labourer in the building industry. He has only ever been offered zero hours contracts, through agents and never through an employer. The agent will offer up to 6 months contract but usually shorter at a set hourly rate. No holidays, no sick pay, no benefits. Contracts never last the term offered and can be cancelled five minutes before work starts with no notice. It happens frequently, often they last two weeks with a week in hand required. The work is hard physical labour and often very dirty. Almost exclusively, the charge hand on site is Albanian, Romanian, or Bulgarian as the contractors prefer that nationality. Most labourers working on the site under his direct control are the same nationality. If the work shifts or dries up, Matthew will be let go through the agent first. He has no representation through a union because agents simply won't offer him work if he was a member. He struggles every day with anxiety due to rent and bills and the grind of hard physical work, lack of work security, and the blatant unfairness built into the system. This doesn't apply to those lucky enough of the same nationality as the charge hand. For some reason, they feel far more secure, and because they are usually friends, they have support. Matthew rents a bedroom in a house with 4 to 6 other people in Manchester because he has a better chance of working there. It costs him £700 to 800 a month to be close to the city centre. One shared bathroom and kitchen. It was last decorated 15 to 20 years ago. Rubbish in large bins lines the streets almost constantly. He has problems with landlords who only ever offer a 6 month contract and then review payments and look to move him out or increase rent. Due to the unreliable nature of his work, it's impossible to get a permanent place to stay, never mind a flat which he would really love. He can't afford a car but parking it would be expensive in any case. He hasn't had a holiday in 7 years except public holidays. He takes over time when ever its offered. Though he can be offered good wages of between £16 to £19/hr because he is finished so often his actual wage is closer to £11 to 12/hr. He can be out of work for weeks on end, looking, waiting for agents to call. He has tried to get part-time food delivery jobs on a bicycle, but it's well recognised that the multinational companies dont seem to employ as first choice English people even though it's illegal. How is he generally treated by the charge hand and his fellow workers of the same nationality? Some are good but often badly, seen as lazy and English even though he isn't lazy but he is English. This leads to him feeling isolated and a target at work. Birds of a feather really do stick together. I appreciate you in your life, likely don't know any Matthews. Well, I do, and I would never assume anything stereo typical of anyone because I don't live their daily experience. But if I did, I might just become very angry. I might just become bitter. I might just listen to people who say they are interested in me and have a way to help because nobody else is. Because those who don't want to help expect me to be happy with my lot in life and thank them for it. Don't talk about night school and further study. Even if having been cut to the wick, it can be found, it's far to expensive. For Matthew, everything is expensive. That's because he has no access to any state benefits as he is a single young man and the decency to work every day in a job soft handed people could never imagine existed. But people jump to conclusions they watch TV and read the papers and have their opinions cultivated about Matthew and his friends by billionaires living in tax havens who surely would only ever tell us the truth. They even sponcer political parties and make sure we all know what we need to know about Matthew. What's more they consistently promote low taxes and a happy life for themselves, I guess. Who can blame them? Well, maybe Matthew and his mates might, but they have been told by the same people it's down to immigrants. You may have guessed I know Matthew, I actually know quite a few Matthew's. I know they have had enough, and I'm sorry they can't be more eloquent in saying it, but nobody seems to be able to hear them when they have in the past because they are too busy I guess. Having their nice lives.
The riots are, predominantly, the result of years of economic neglect of mainly Northern towns and cities by successive governments. Of course there is an appalling racist and anti-Islamic element and that and the dreadful stabbings are what seems to have sparked the latest troubles. But so many people in these areas (largely thanks to the Thatcherite dismantling of the manufacturing and industrial sectors which destroyed many communities), especially young people, feel a sense of hopelessness over job and career prospects. Yes, the perpetrators must be prosecuted and punished, but the new government must also address the deep-seated problems that persist in these neighbourhoods.
That's an intelligent response - I don't entirely agree with it, but it makes good points, it doesn't excuse thuggery and brutality, it doesn't mistake violent drunken hooligans for legitimate protestors. Some others could learn from your post, though I bet they won't.
Pretty spot on to be fair, the evil thing about it all is that Farage has spotted this rage in the downtrodden and has basically brainwashed them into thinking that some foreigner who's been given the same lot in life as them is somehow the enemy. I partly sympathise with the rioters in that regard, if I lived in the circumstances that some of them do I'd be angry and want to smash stuff, too; but foreigners are not the reason why they are struggling, it's decades of neglect from the government.
Solid comment, though I think you're downplaying the immigration/religious aspect of it a little. Right or wrong, people are upset and angry, specifically about immigration and non-british values. We'll never know how much of this could have been avoided if the economic issues you describe were addressed, either in the past or more recently. But I do think there's a risk of saying "these people aren't really angry about what they say they're angry about, they just don't like being poor". No, they are angry about specific issues. I'm sure the economic issues are fuelling it to an extent but it's not a get out of jail card, this isn't an issue that will magically go away if we fix economic disparities.
This is not about the colour of someone's skin, it is about reducing immigration. Reducing immigration is not a 'racist' issue, but the media etc. Like to label it as a racist issue to help it go away. The politicians are too weak to resolve this, or actually want this immigration to continue so anybody who is against immigration they can label a racist. I like having a multicultural society as long as we all live together and respect each other. But the doors cannot be left open as it is affecting loads of British citizens of all races and faith.
So, if no Brits are willing to do essential jobs in the NHS , food production , care for the elderly, and with an ageing population, who is going to do this work, without immigration???
@avasworld8633 So , if the NHS , food producers, hospitality industry , and care sector cannot get Brits to do these essential jobs, then who do you think is going to do them, if not immigrants ? Gnomes and fairies 🤣🤣🤣
Walz doesn't bring her any voters she wasn't already getting. The DSA endorsed Walz. They also congratulated Maduro on his election 'victory.' Anyone else see the problem here? Harris lost the RINO votes; they'll go back to Trump.
Disagree about Tim Walz. A genius pick. Just watch his first speech. You can't tick box this stuff - warmth, like-ability, integrity, decency... voters are going to love (even if flawed)
That hotel was also housing abused women fleeing domestic violence and their kids. I'm old. In my youth, the individuals currently rioting would have been called rent a mob. They are no different to the football hooligans of the 1980s. Their sole purpose is to engage in violence and destruction, and some looting on the side, they enjoy it, the issues are simply an excuse. If not this, there would be something else they'd latch onto to hate, ever decreasing circles of anyone or anything that isn't exactly like them. It's about time we called it out for what it is, far-right thuggery. We simply offer false legitimacy to these yobs by discussing the issues in the same breath as the rioting.
So why didn’t we see those thugs on the streets in the 90’s, 00’s & 10’s? They are the same type of thugs but they’re unified and being organised for political ends. It is probably too late to be discussing the issues that have brought them out, half this country sent a clear message back in 2016 that they wanted migration controlled and, for whatever reasons, it wasn’t, so now the judicial system will have to deal with it - the present day police force is mostly new recruits with little experience of dealing with mass violence and on Sept 9th they’re letting 7,000 prisoners out early to make space in prisons and there are already 400 arrestees from the last 2 weeks waiting to fill it back up again. It may look like the 70’s but it’s not - for better or worse, the state had the capacity to control these situations then, it doesn’t now.
@@JohnRawlinson-lt3uzsounds like you are trying to say I want border closed, as I don't like who are arriving, in the most don't call me a racist way.
@@JohnRawlinson-lt3uz immigration got worse in 2018 👍, remarkably, after the Referendum. The more you close the legal routes, the more you open up to people smuggling. Not to mention, actual Migrants, are grouped together with people like Overseas Students (something which has increased massively in the last few years). If you made a pie chart of immigration in the UK, you wouldn't even be able to see "Illegals". Also, they're being put up in hotels and hanging around for so long because the Tories gutted the Immigration Office. If we were processing these people properly, admitting legitimate cases and deporting false claims, the issues would clear. It's just the massive backlog of claims has completely ground to a halt thanks to the Tories mishandling the books.
Utter and total lies, this has been building for two years. The migrants in that hotel sleep all day and wander the area disturbing residents at night. The night before the riot a 16 year old girl was raped by a migrant and he was released by police. Rotherham grooming gangs that the Labour council covered up, need i go on. Initial violence at the hotel was started by the migrants waving their genitalia from the windows, openly waving knives. Give me strength.
It's interesting how defining sex, race, and religion is in American poltics. I know these issues will be in play in similar places like the UK, Australia, Canada. But I don't think any of these would say, quite so publicly and deliberatly, 'we can't choose another woman, another black person, someone else from london'. It's a bit weird.
It only isn't in 'nation states' with a dominant ethnicity, we only have to at Northern Ireland. All across Africa, India, much of Asia it is. China, Korea, Bangladesh, most of the Europe it isn't (much).
@@coderider3022Wrong. He's the same as the Vance pick. It's doubling down on the base, just like Vance. This guy ain't winning any independents by saying "socialism is neighbourlyness".
@@adtastic1533 In my experience, very few in the US actually understand the meaning of socialism. They tend to conflate it with Marxism, Trotskyism, national socialism(which is what what Hitler was) Using these terms have specific meanings.
I had to rewrite this comment four times to get it past the sense or. I have no idea why they're blocking it other than it presents facts that don't support the Blue narrative. The funniest part about this is, media is so "buy assed" and Blues so willfully "ignore ant," ya'll are praising Tim Walz for serving in the Minnesota National Guard, while making fun of JD Vance who most of you probably were never even told was in the Marines and served in Iraq.
Walz was in the national guard for 24 years retired as a command Sargent major, was a congressman for 14 years, chairman of the veterans affairs committee. He then ran for governor 2 times and won. Tim Walz is more interesting than Rory appears to understand.
Neither side has to worry about their die hard supporters so the Democrats choosing someone that is as far right as a Democrat can get is a no brainer. A gun toting, vet, football coach (but teacher *spit) ticks about as many boxes as is humanly possible without actually being a Republican. That 'apple pie' comment - excellent.
Waltz may not bring a direct swing state, but indirectly he is the most effective candidate. He is highly regarded by young voters who will be key in Michigan. He is well liked by blue collar voters in Ohio, Detroit and Arizona. And he can package himself as ‘America’s dad’. He is anti war, pro trade union which is popular among republicans and independents. I see it as a great move!
I am a Hindu and I have lived in the UK for 51 years. I have seen the erosion of English culture over the last 20 years. Blair's government stated mass immigration and the Tories have made it worse. Enough in enough. I utterly condemn the thuggery seen on our streets of late but I absolutely understand the sentiment of these protests and I speak for many many Hindus who have settled in the UK, integrated with the English culture and respect the laws of the land. STOP the illegal immigration, seriously control immigration and crack down HARD on extremists of every kind. If extremism and radicalisation are not dealt with, we will have a far greater problem to deal with in the next few years.
If you are Hindu in the UK you KNOW that you are there because the UK colonized India. If you were colonized by France instead, you would be ... in France .. If you were not colonized (the case of no one except the UK, France etc ...) you would probably in those countries ... Why do you blind yourself on the UK responsibility of the UK in the "illegal" immigration it has triggered ???
@TonThonFraisdEau An inaccurate statement. My heritage is Indian but I was born in East Africa and my parents came to the UK out of choice. Nothing to do with colonisation. Other members of my family chose the US and the Netherlands.
I agree but the far right doesn’t care whether you integrated or not they have been attacking brown people Philippine nurses and black people here in America they blame Hispanic immigrants because they happen to be the largest minority UK they blame Muslims because they are the largest minority the truth is they are white supremacist.
Alistair Campbell demonstrating how politicians, media & metropolitan elite STILL are not listening to the concerns of the majority. If democratic voting is ignored then eventually it does lead to social unrest. Luxury values on show. Concerned citizens are not fascists..
As a belgian, I am wondering why ID cards are so strongly opposed when they could be leveraged against illegal immigration. Would love to understand your point of view
@@EersteMinisterwe might have ID cards here in Belgium but they are just showroom dressing when politics don't apply the law that is tied to carry an ID , just as many illegals here.😮
I am glad you addressed the elephant in the room Rory: if demographics continue as they do now it is only a matter of time until there are more non-white than white people in Britain. This is not only a matter of skin but also values and culture which means identity. Many of the people rioting feel that their culture and identity is being threatened and unless that fear is addressed successfully racism and even conflict will keep emerging.
So they're concerned about this shift in racial demographics but not because of race ("it's not about skin")... ? This doesn't make sense What imported values or infringements are these people protesting exactly? Where do traditions of rule of law, hospitality and humility rank on their list of 'english values' ?
@@tjm756Marrying first cousins resulting in mentally stunted children. Honour killing, forced marriage, child marriage, homophobia, FGM need we go on?
@@tjm756 Marrying first cousins resulting in mentally stunted children. Honour killing, forced marriage, child marriage, homophobia, FGM need we go on?
Is there mass dissatisfaction over immigration levels? YES. Have politicians been successful in dealing with it, over decades? NO. Should people be able to protest over it? YES. Should they use violence to meet their aims? NO. is the violence and thuggery down to just protesters? NO. Most has been committed by feral youths wanting to have a go at the police and steal. Will these protests disappear due to political and police actions? Definitely NO. In fact they will likely meld into other protest about various issues including economic poverty. I'm actually surprised violent protests haven't occurred earlier. I do not condone them but if your from a working class area frustration is boiling over.
In the last 2 years 2.3 million people have immigrated to the U.K. where is the budget for this coming from? We need to fund the associated infrastructure. Low paid immigration will not pay for this. The economy is on its knees, we have a major drug epidemic. Neither party seems to have answers, just “nothing to see here” attitude. Blaming a few thugs is a distraction.
Alistair says this is a form of terrorism..that sentence should send a shiver through our society, and is exactly how so called conspiracy theorists said it would eventually be used to stop any kind of dissent.
They pay for themselves, through the taxation system, no? That's how the entire country works. You don't say "2 million babies were born last year..." But migrants are always of young working age, don't put stress on the healthcare system. But besides all that, the reason we have migrants, is simply because we need them. What sector do you work in? I'm sure whatever it is relies on migrant staff. Be it the service sector, healthcare, farming... we need migrants to keep the economy going. If we turn off the tap, entire businesses will just die
A better number would be net migration, given that some people come and go, and have very limited drain on society. I'm guessing you didn't do that because the numbers, whilst abnormally high for last year- are still quite moderate in the grand scheme of things. Lets not forget there's a war on in Europe so migration is to be expected. (If someone invaded East Anglia I may also migrate.)
Proving that someone knows something is false when they say it is pretty difficult. It would also backfire on the left because they do it as well. Hope not hate shared something about a Muslim woman being acid attacked. Something guaranteed to bring their “far right thugs” into the streets with bats and machetes. They will keep the law vague so that the double standards can be maintained
Freedom of speech. Most people in most countries can tell lies. It's not illegal. It's not illegal for politicians or those running for office to tell lies to individuals or groups at rallies and campaign speeches. It's not illegal to spread false information, misinformation or disinformation. It's only a crime if you incite someone to do something criminal. I'm only.asking questions is a cowards way of avoiding responsibility by claiming they weren't inciting. Any reasonable person can see they are but that's not the legal bar to cross. Snowflakes like to insult others and scream freedom of speech whenever they have to grow up and be responsible for their speech. They want freedom to say anything while restricting others right to say they caused it.
Come down hard on the rioters but get a grip of social media and then stop looking weak / out of control of the illegal immigration issue. Then start to really build up communities and promote understanding respect and integration between cultures particularly in poorer areas. Can't see all of this happening unfortunately. These are scary times.
I agree that immigration rates are too high and they should be controlled simply because the infrastructure can't cope. However, I don't think these riots exist purely because of immigration. Some of the worst rioting occurred in Belfast, a city over 90% white. Additionally cities like Hartlepool and Middlesborough, while deprived, don't have large immigrant populations. Previous race riots in the 1950's and 1920's occurred in times of very low levels of immigration.
@@saifmadni12we live in the internet age and they buy into the narrative that it is happening to the whole Europe, therefore they do not want it to happen to Ireland before it is too late.
How do we "get a grip of social media"? The big social media companies are based in the US where they have a far broader notion of free speech than we have in Europe. And Twitter is owned by Musk who literally supports the agenda of these rioters. If your strategy is to control the people by controlling what they see and hear that's a doomed strategy, unless you want to go full totalitarian like China. Liberalism is based on a huge gamble: that good ideas naturally drive out bad ones and free speech leads to better ideas. It's been spectacularly successful for about 200 years. I think we have no choice but to double down on this and find a way to make it work in the Internet age.
Good points Chris. I feel the issue we have with SM is that algorithms amplify extreme messages. A newspaper or other media had editors who would be responsible for content, so there was a degree of control. At present there seems to be a lack of accountability when it comes to the SM platforms. The onus is on the poster, but the issue I have is how the algorithms amplify certain messaging / content. For this I feel the SM companies must be held accountable. Ironically we are posting this on a SM site 😂
@@robc8892 if I keep scrolling cat video on TikTok, I expect to be flooded with cat video and not dog video. Please don’t take my amplification power away.
Being a Dutchman in Britain these 2 gents give me always a sense they are speaking my language ... Keep these positive dialogues between centre left and right going !!
I disagree with most of what Alistair Campbell is saying here. Too much Farage bashing too often and banging on about Brexit. The key question is just how much illegal migration is he willing to accept which is putting massive strains on services and infrastructure. Keir’s messaging fine, come on!
@@andyc6582you havd to ask, where are other MP's on migrants. They're letting Starmer do his job. Farage is like a back seat driver who is constantly looking for problems, but no solutions, when Starmer has literally got riots, cost of living, and getting into the job.
The extremists rioting on the streets are the tip of an iceberg. Some of them may well be Islamophobic but the silent majority of the UK are tolerant and decent people who are simply concerned for their livelihoods. And who wouldn't be given the scale of the change - "net immigration of 1.5 million in two years" (Rory's words). This represents change on a huge scale and nothing much is being done about it.
Absolutely right, I have lost hope in the left (of which I am ever so slightly a part of (but really I am specifically talking about those that manage to remain in the increasingly extreme left)) their heads are so far up their own arses they have not seen the woods for the trees for decades. Completely and utterly clueless.
Completely disagree about two tier policing doesn't exist. At a tactical layer it very much does and it's at the tactical layer where most people have their interactions with the police. We have had the westmidlands spokesperson admit the police relied on community leaders for their intel on the coming protest. In this highly emotional period, it's hard to understand why they relied on people who are obviously going to be biased. I seriously think the government needs to get grip on policing and follow through on their reinvestment.
But they don’t even know what Islam is. And they don’t know who Muslims ar I remember a Sikh doctor being attacked with a cleaver in North Wales, because they thought he was Muslim
@@philomel1000 at the group level there are themes consistent in the islamic world that completely negate western/british values and pose a threat to them if allowed to grow at the rate they are continuing (which is exponential in the UK, doubling every 10 years). Freedom of speech/expression and views on sexual minorities are two that immediately come to mind but there are ample more. one manifestation of this we have already seen domestically, aside the numerous radicalised episodes of violence we have witnessed on our streets in the name of Islam and the accounts of child grooming which are carried out by the few not the many, is in high % boroughs have indicated to elect their MP based on their stance on conflicts in the Middle East as a priority, over and above the numerous challenges we are facing back home. not only is this issue of secondary concern to most working class british people, but many also disapprove political support for a (officially) prescribed islamist autocratic terrorist organisation. Polls have also indicated over 50% of british muslims believe being gay should be illegal, one may also assume this number to be less liberal for those incoming in future from less liberal nations. and with that number growing, the need to assimilate and integrate into british/Western society increasingly less important. these are just some of areas that concern people, there are many more, although as the gentleman pointed out it is not the individuals themselves but the religious ideology and it's incompatibility with western values and outlook that is the concern for many
@@philomel1000 the riots the other day took place for a separate yet related issue. net migration into this country has been completely unsustainable for 30 years. more in that period than the 800 years that preceded it, and to the detriment of living standards for the "incumbent" working class citizen of the towns that have been transformed as a result. people have been voting on this for decades but it has been ignored by the country's political leadership (red or blue). to suggest that the UK economy would crumble without this short term boost of labour is a lazy argument that props up terrible policymaking. until 1940 the UK was 99% white british and Britain was placed in the top few % globally economically. good policymakers have always been able to incentivise the labour force to skill up and work in priority areas. the easy/short term solution is to import the labour, which we have done, but this has been terribly misguided and is principally to blame for the extreme unrest we are now witnessing. whatsmore, there is clearly a major double standard in treatment and policing of any such protest (simply observe response to the Palestine/BLM/Leeds riot vs. the recent riots for example) - which is adding gasoline to an already enraging inferno.
From "The Free Press": On Friday, Alastair Campbell, Tony Blair’s former spokesman and former director of communications for the Labour Party, posted a clip of Murray with the following caption: “Think @metpoliceuk might want to take a look at this book plug.” Rory Stewart, how can you have anything to do with this guy? Unsubscribing.
I dont think most people who have issues with immigration think " all your problems are caused by immigration". I think they think: some issues are caused by immigration and I keep voting for it to be reduced, and the politicians do nothing. That is the real source of frustration, social media posts are the symptom.
@@Gridpipe lack of housing and it's not unfair or racist to say that existing UK citizens living in crowded or older properties should not get priority. Charity begins at home.
@@russellbradley454so if the Tory government did not for 10 years stop building homes and the likes of reform aka Ferage didn't lie and mislead people and cause people to want Brexit, maybe we would not be in this state. So why not start from that point instead of straight to blaming the immigrants, like they want you to. End class wars. There's a reason they want people fighting each other. So you don't pay attention to their yachts.
@bentucker2301 not really. The people rioting are to the anti-immigration argument, like' just stop oil' are to the people concerned with climate change. Normal people concerned with climate change don't think this is the only or most pressing concern in the world.
Can someone ask why there's no "Hinduphobia"? They're largely brown people, too. But they also respect our values, assimilate, and contribute to society in very positive ways. Quit blaming the wrong people.
- More shared history between Europe and the Muslim world due to proximity, e.g. the crusades, the reconquest. - Closely related faiths - People from Christian countries can understand and talk about Islam more easily than they can about Hinduism, which seems very difficult to understand for outsiders. - Recent wars in the Middle East and terror attacks in the US and Europe. Since 9/11 Islam has been more of a focus in the news than Hinduism.
2 місяці тому
The average far right muppet can't distinguish them apart and often throws them all in the same bag. Unless you think they're asking people whether they are Pakistani or Indian, which is hilarious. Indians went through a lot of shit throughout the 20th century in the UK, and still do. They are the largest immigrant group. The absence of a specific word to describe it doesn't mean the phenomenon doesn't exist.
😂. You have a serious case of confirmation bias. I'm surprised that you listen to such a podcast because words such as XL Bully, bruv , innit ain't the flavour of the day
"But they also respect our values, assimilate, and contribute to society in very positive ways." So do the vast majority of Muslims. E.g. my GP, my dentist, the lads who fix my car, half the staff at the hospital, my solicitor, the local opticians, etc. etc.
Hindus and Sikhs are non proselytising and integrate without imposing their beliefs on others. Coexisting in harmony with Christian's, Jews and agnostics/atheists. There's an elephant in every western nation that is a constant source of division and no amount of tolerance will abate it, indeed tolerance only encourages further demands and concessions. It is by it's nature a religion of conquest that seeks power to rule and convert or destroy all non believers.
After Keir spoke about law and order he should of said this. "I know people are hurting, frustrated and angry, we get it. We have only been in government for a month, please calm down and we will do all we can to undo the chaos that the Conservative government has inflicted on you over the past 14 years. Please respect the rule of law and we will do our level best to try and listen to your concerns". However, Kier decided to do the opposite and pour petrol on the flames. The rest is history.
Exactly - but Labour have form in this area. Remember Gordon Brown being caught off-mic decrying that “bigoted woman” who dared to raise the immigration matter? Likewise, Lord Mandy saying, “the working class have nowhere to go.” AC with his selective memory failed to note these incidents.
Starmer should pander to the racist far-right thugs who are burning down libraries and attacking Muslims and migrants and tell them that the lies they've been fed by the conservative media are true. Got it.
These are people who are violently attacking the Police and trying to set fire to hotels containing asylum seekers. What are they "frustrated and angry" about? The presence of Muslims in the UK perhaps? You are making the completely unwarranted assumption that there are millions of people cheering on these thugs and ready to join them. There are not. Very soon the small number of violent far right activists will have been arrested and this will all come to an end.
possibly allowing 700+ thousand legal migrants a year into the country is causing problems for local communities not sure how we can keep housing them when it takes 5 years to "build" 1.5 mill houses
The majority of the 700k excluding students coming here are doing the jobs no one here wants to do, without this influx the British economy would be in a worse state than it already is...😮
@@topthecat2259it makes the situation worse. Undermines the economy and puts pressure on our social services and healthcare systems, not to mention housing.
Except a huge percentage of those people work in our health and social care sector, pay huge visa fees and money directly to the health service for their care and the care for their family. Housing is an issue but they are keeping the economy afloat.
@@topthecat2259 so British society was defunct until Blair's government (followed increasingly so by the tories) decided to ramp average net migration levels up from the low 10s of thousands to the high hundreds of thousands? there are other policy methods of educating and incentivising a domestic labour force to gain key skills and work in important areas
@@topthecat2259 I suspect you're right but I'm interested in understanding your claim in more depth - can you provide links to your research/data sets please?
@LiquidSpiral why? Has he not lived here very long? Does he not know the history of our country? Does he realise that when thise 30% grow up, they'll be British born mothers and fathers if they have children? Does he know birth rates among people born here have dropped dramatically and that affects the stats?
Interestingly, decades ago I had a chat with an English footbool houligan in bar. He had travelled to South of France with his buddies to watch a match an fight. He explained this happily with no anger, remorse or anything. This was their way of having fun. With also obviously trying to get laid. Didn't happen with me but this was the only time I have heard anyone talk about his (or her) violence. He was clearly not drunk. I have studied a fair amount about violence as it is very common in Finland where I live, work place bullying, bullying in schools & universities, intimate partner & sexual. Often serious. Violence gives the committer a sense of power incl release of related hormones. Most (70%) of bullies are successful people. I think societies are unwilling to discuss these things honestly. I think because many of these worst bullies are powerful people. On top of this, poverty, immigration problems, joblessness, what have you.
I come from Middlesbrough, and Darlington is down the road, Hartlepool even closer. These are some of the most deprived areas in England I am not surprised by these riots, lots of poor angry people blaming immigration for their problems.... Their problems being: cost of living, terrible housing conditions, crime, huge public service waiting lists (NHS etc), closing businesses etc. just an all round disaster, last time it was like this was probably in the late 80's. Personally I think blaming immigration and the few thousand that come in illegally on boats is just ignorant, but that is the point, lots of uneducated ignorant people fed lies and missinformation (on social media) whiling having awful lives leads to the same outcome every time throughout history.
Bristol too. And some of the people prosecuted own their own homes, are landlords, business directors, etc. and further some travelled in from Bath and elsewhere just to riot. As a brown person there in person, their chants also weren't very "working class," just racist
@@OsweebMosley yes the north east is mostly white, less so then 20 years ago though. Sadly in hard times the peasant rabbles get their pitch forks out and target anything or anyone who is new and different. its been like this since the birth of civilization. Only education breaks this trend.
Same as the 80s but we didn't have riots. We fought for our jobs. We didn't fight our neighbours. The tories took our jobs. They never gave them back. Farage was a tory and d8dnt stabd up for us at all. Reform exploiting the situation for their own ends. Labour will at least try and get jobs or money back into the NE.
No, what’s happened is both Labour and Conservative Governments have failed to slow immigration. More importantly nobody has made a serious effort. Rwanda was a joke. In any business you would look at the objective, then work out what obstacles you faced before embarking on a slow, expensive misplaced project which gets stopped at the last minute. It’s Yes Minister all over again. You two know better. This is not football hooliganism, it’s ordinary people probably being dragged along by political agitators. Germany post Versailles ? An exaggeration for sure, but those people weren’t all Nazis, but went along for the ride. Time will tell
There is a big difference between radical Islam and the rest. As we have seen today with Taylor Swift having to cancel concerts in Vienna because of an Islamic terror plot- this is what "globalising the intifada" means. How many people who aren't Muslim even know the difference between Sunni and Shia? And yet so many think they know all about the Middle East and it is a binary opinion, at best.
A passionate belief in something that might not exist. To some, football and racism or sexism function almost like a religious practice. Education and dialogue are the only way to tackle this in order to move forward as a species.
You can, I can, everybody can - but the murders in Southport have nothing to do with Islam, and that's the subject under discussion. When there's a pogrom going on, as there plainly is, it's cruelly irresponsible to blame the victims of it by bringing in snide comments like yours, which take the actions of entirely unconnected people, in Rotheram and elsewhere, as though they had even the vaguest connection with it. What you're doing, in effect - and I don't suppose that was your intent - is exploiting the murder of little girls on Islam; even though the killer isn't even a Muslim, nor an immigrant.
Some Muslims commit crimes. Some Christians commit crimes. Some atheists commit crimes. Its individuals who commit crimes not 'Islam' or 'Christianity' or 'Atheism'.
Elon Musk is not a living a genius, he's simply a ruthless opportunistic businessman who has pretty much cookoo'd his way into pretty much every business he owns.
Let’s see, he is a billionaire who created an EV company, Spacex and will be the first to put humans on Mars. What did you do besides eat your waffles this morning? Spoken like a typical ‘incel’, success hating loser.
Alistair and Rory, having been following your conversations for some months now, this has been one of my favourite discussions. Your collective wisdom and research shine through in what is an eminently accessible take, not only on the strange times we find ourselves in, but also on the complexities and tensions of the human condition. I look forward to your next release!
The riots are awful and condemnable. However, public is frustrated at the decades of turning blind eyes to illegal immigration, and the problems certain immigration groups (which no wants to name - and that is *the* problem).This dismissiveness is the exact environment which allowed Trump & Brexit to win.
No one has turned a blind eye to illegal immigration. It has been a topic of debate for at least 20 years and countless Home Secretaries, Labour and Conservative, have announced various measures and schemes to counter it. The essence of populism is believing that there are no complex problems, just lazy, stupid or corrupt politicians who fail to implement obvious solutions. But it's not true. Some problems just don't have easy solutions. They may not even have difficult solutions. Some problems can only be managed and controlled, not eliminated.
Thing is asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants. The ironic thing is the number of boats which they want to stop, have massively increased since January 2021 because Brexit took us out of the Dublin III regulation, it made it more appealing to come to the UK, knowing they couldn’t be moved on to other EU countries. The conservatives then had to start stockpiling these people and weren’t processing them because 70-80% of applications are successful so that would look bad.
@@Firepea all of the people who have crossed the channel have done so illegally (and via paying criminal gangs). None of them are asylum seekers either, they have all come from France. There's zero point talking about counterfactuals, and you have no idea if there would have more or less alyssum seekers in 2024 had Brexit had nor hadn't happened. The vote happened 8 years ago. I didn't even mention Brexit.
I'm a big fan of this podcast but I found this one difficult to listen to. It's a bit rich listening to someone who spun the Iraq war moralising about these riots.
I’m not an islamaphobic person but in recent times 9/11, 7/7, London Bridge, Westminster Bridge, Glasgow Airport, Manchester Arena, Lee Rigby, David Ames and Southport have all made me a bit nervous .. Please, please, please stop refering to the concerned as all being far right especially if they just want to have a conversation about immigration. …..
@@leejordan9804 My point is that severe attacks on innocent people keep happening and using the broad brush description of far right to label those that want to see an end to that or even just have a conversation about it seems lazy.
OK let's talk. Why don't you fear Catholics because of the IRA? Why don't you fear all protestants because of the UVF? Why do you associate immigrt8on with Muslims with individual terrorist events carried out by individuals? Do you know anything about the militant fundamental Christians trying to take control of the nuclear button? Why don't you go to a Mosque and knock on the door amd ask to speak to then about your concerns? Why don't you have a conversation with those you are worried about instead of hiding away and reinforcing your fears?
He comes across as America’s dad. He has passed progressive legislation as Governor and he excites the base! That’s the big thing. The advantage is coming from the fact he’s excited people. He’s plain speaking, he started calling the republicans weird, and it’s caught on….he’s an excellent pick. She’s done really well. Come on Rory.
in polite society people dont want burkas to become normalised... they want men to be respectful, trusting, and women wouldn't need them to keep themselves from being beaten and accused when they get home...stoning is forbidden in uk!
The country is on fire, people are scared to leave their homes and they choose to lead with the American VP pick. Bad editorial choice? Wonky priorities? Out of touch?
The country is not on fire. Some people are scared. A lot are ready to fight back now as the police can't manage it. Not gonna spend our lives living in fear of idiots. They don't have any power over us and certainly can't dictate what we talk about.
The riots are a symptom of despairing and disintegrating communities who have been further stressed by mass immigration. Riots are completely the wrong way of expressing the frustration and were triggered by an almost completely unrelated event but ignoring the valid underlying concerns of communities like these is pointless, counter-productive and will only make things worse. Calling it Islamophobia is pathetic, considering the wealth of experience and intelligence of you guys
Well it's a shame they chose the terrible murders of three little girls by a UK born boy. I know what the riots are really about and if they have any use at all it is in identifying, charging and imprisoning thugs. I've no interest in their concerns.
Now I never really comment or dive into this kind of stuff so good reason but as a white uk man I certainly feel uncomfortable going to certain towns or cities in the uk , particularly around young Asian men in gangs more so than most. Also I have seen how our high streets have degraded gone are the butchers, hardware shops and fish mongers and are full of polish mini markets and Turkish barbers which a lot of there shops in small English towns are just no go zones for English people. I’m a complete liberal when it’s comes to race and creed and equality , there is no reason why you should ever be judged on skin colour etc but I am getting very concerned that our ‘English’ way or life and towns are turning into segregated melting pots of division. Let’s not out this down to Islamophobia or the idiot thugs on all sides, English people have genuine concerns for their identity and way of living.
Both parties have miss handled the whole issue of immigration. The simplistic approach of housing immigrants and/or asylum applicants in communities without providing those communities with any extra support is short sighted. The recent protests in Ireland over the asylum seekers fleeing to there over the Rwanda scheme is the same syndrome. Starmer should do something positive. Labour has always argued the cause of crime should be addressed - these riots should not be written off as simply due to right wing thugs.
Migrants come to WORK ... but the UK does not let them do it or only illegally ... BTW the migrants come from the UK (former) colonies ... they know you, it's why they come, you know them since you colonized them ... Why are you surprised they come ??? You forced them to be with you, now they are ... what are you complaining about ??? The UK is responsible of those people coming ... This is what those rioters and Reform UK voters don't recognize and NO ONE tell them the truth that they complain about what THEIR country has triggered by colonizing ...
Starmer has said they are going to work with various agencies in the UK and Europe to go after people smugglers. I think this is the way to go. But it isn't going to be a quick process.
@@riddlingrymer yes that may deal with some asylum seeking immigration but not the much bigger legal immigration. Anyone know if Starmer has put a figure in how much Labour plan to reduce that to?
I enjoy the show guys but you’re both out of touch on this. Rory might have been able to back pack around Afghan smoking brown but he wouldn’t last 5 minutes on a northern housing estate these days . If you go to any pub or place of work ( outside the public sector ) you’ll hear the same views and concerns . Screaming Far right at anyone with these concerns isn’t going to make it go away The working class are looking for someone to speak up and have a sensible debate about the obscene amount of migration this country has suffered in the last 20 years
If it’s a concern for them why is it they have to riot, cause damage, burn down libraries, steal from shops and all while doing this take beer to the riot. If it is a concern this isn’t the way to show your concerned. A lot of people were concerned about climate change and they held a peaceful protest can these people not do the same? Maybe there just to stupid?
I used to use Twitter but I stay well away from it nowadays since Elon Musk allowed it to become as offensive as Truth Social. The only thing that might change it is a boycott imo.
I find Mr Campbell and Mr Stewart's podcast informative. I also find Mr Murray's thoughts interesting to hear on occasion. It is frankly dystopian for Alastair to agitate for Douglas Murray's arrest. Particularly as he's essentially a market competitor in terms of viewers. That is dodgy. Here's a thought: instead of trying to get him arrested by the police why not have Douglas Murray on your podcast instead? As a basic principle in this country we should have the right to open political discussion without trying to poke the police into locking our opponents up.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.” ― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism
I find it really difficult to discuss immigration as it is a proper minefield. This issue feels like it has been bubbling up for a couple of years and now people have latched onto the murders to basically light the fuse. I think a bigger discussion needs to be had around immigration. I’d personally like to see more transparency from the government around immigration as a whole as I don’t understand it myself fully. The rioters should be locked up though as attacking police and damaging property is just not on. There are ways of raising your point and this is not one of them.
Ah yes let's discuss the rioters concerns regarding immigration. Hang on, you Brexited to get rid of immigration of Europeans, and instead took in non EU immigration, the very sort the rioters were against lol
Honestly the riots have been terrible . Can anyone please tell me why Starmer isn’t coming down on Muslim gangs who are openly walking around with machetes etc . This isn’t a political point , genuine question .
These two won’t ever mention that . It’s one way traffic with all of the press and political elite. There’s plenty of areas white kids wouldn’t dare venture in this country too
When Muslim shop owners were defending their businesses and areas with knives during the 2011 riots people like you were cheering them on. I don't think Starmer prosecuted them then either.
I'd speculate they're a big part of his voter base, some of whom who he lost to the Gaza candidates, and who he doesn't want to cause further rift with by reprimanding.
Thank you. This is my first experience of your show. Immediately prior to watching it, I streamed Redacted's show on the current crisis here. It was somewhat alarming and, unusually, I felt obliged to comment and included a link to this episode of The Rest is Politics. I wish you two would challenge them to a discussion. It is essential that, alongside everything else, we all ensure that we do not promote misinformation. Again, thank you. The best commentary on this difficult issue I have seen in a long time.
He pronounces his name as Walls. Both he and Harris seem positive, intelligent and smiley. This seems to be a good team. Back in the day the USA seemed to have a forward-looking and positive outlook. Then it seemed to move backwards, become very divided and wholly negative with Trump. I hope the Harris/Walz team wins. The alternative is too ghastly to think about.
The double standard on labelling similar incidents of civil unrest is alarming, it makes the problem worse when the poorest people in the country feel like they’ll always be put last, always be ignored and always be blamed, I thought this new government would be more in touch with that section of society but like Rory and Alistair, too many of them have London middle upper class syndrome where they sympathise for those it’s popular to be sympathetic to
Exactly. It's like the white working classes are just bigots. There's no conceivable way they could have legitimate grievances. There were riots in Rotherham, why might that town be hostile towards Islam? Shh no, we mustn't go there..
So being poor is now an excuse to loot during unrest? The double standard here is that when people rioted in other cases it was almost universally decried as disorder and negative, while if it's a far right unrest it's decried as just a symptom of people being poor. The lack of self awareness from such propaganda is stunning.
It is absurd to try and pull the victim card when the situation we’re talking about are riots. Not protests, not civil unrest, but rioting. Especially when they are being inflamed by misinformation. Help cannot be done when demands are underwritten by aggression.
Stop trying to silence criticism of Islam. To an extent, such attempts are why we're in this mess. Mainstream, contemporary Islam is deeply problematic, and it should not be shielded from criticism.
@@dallysinghson5569It IS the issue. “Islamophobia” was a term invented by Islamists & utilized along with violence to suppress legitimate criticism of their practices & political agenda.
@@bentucker2301 Just because all religions have been misused by some to justify atrocities doesn't mean we should shy away from criticising specific issues within any religion, including Islam. Criticism is crucial for progress and reform. If certain practices or interpretations within a religion lead to harm or oppression, it’s important to address these directly. We should be able to discuss and critique these issues constructively, rather than avoiding the conversation altogether. So, no, you give it a rest.
@@dallysinghson5569 I'm an Arab ex-Muslim, and I've been attacked by white people for criticising Islam, being accused of racism. When they realise I'm not white, they then claim I'm brainwashed or that I’m some sort of Uncle Tom. And don’t get me wrong, you have a point: some people criticise Islam with racist intent. However, there are just as many, if not more, 'anti-racist'-but in reality, racist-people who insist you must see the world through their lens: white people as evil, non-whites, Muslims etc. as victims. The racists and ‘non-racist’ racists can all… f o. (Not you, obvs.) We should be able to criticise Islam. There are pockets of Islam that are compassionate and decent, but mainstream Islam is dreadful. It should be called out just as we have called out Christianity over the centuries. Islam ain’t going to reform or lose its grip if it’s shielded from the light.
Excellent as always, gentlemen. You (collectively) are a breath of fresh air in the media and have the gift of being able to say things as they are. BTW I still think Rorys is the best PM Britain never had. *YET* 🙂
1961 population of London was 97.7% white british, in 2021 53.8%. These aren't crazy theories, but facts that both AC and Rory choose to ignore. Our own capital has changed beyond recognition
@@bsastarfire250 Immigration literally keeps this country running. These immigrants have made this country what it is. Why do you have a problem with non-white British people?
Harris had a great working relationship with former Labor Secretary Marty Walsh, another blue-collar political unicorn…and they continue to be friends. He now runs the National Hockey League Players’ Association. Previously he was mayor of Boston. The Democratic Party in the US is full of down-ballot effective politicians who DIDN’T attend Columbia University and Yale Law School and yet the party is endlessly pegged as being “elitist”…whatever that means in 2024. Walz represents an exciting pivot and the guy really comes across well in his speaking engagements. A “top cop” and a “HS school teacher” with 12 years of experience as a “workhorse” in the House of Representatives. I like this ticket!
Thank you Alistair for a refreshing balanced analysis of how we got to this point. We need to hear more voices challenging the endless social media and you tube narrative about failure of multiculturalism .
Simple maths. Every person added to the population who is economically active will add to total GDP. But if they are producing less than the average per person they will at the same time reduce the GDP per head. Governments are often more focussed on total GDP; individuals are obviously focused on their own economic performance.
But I get your point about the difference between total performance versus GNDP per head. China is a good example. Its population means they are second in total GDP but in GDP per head will be well down the list.
Productivity, which is what you're ultimately talking about, has collapsed in many countries that take in large amounts of immigrants (Canada, Australia, etc). Unfortunately, Government spending on infrastructure doesn't keep pace, resulting in diminished living standards for everyone.
I have been guilty in the past of not challenging islamophobic comments becase it was easier for me to let it go. In the future I will try harder to offer an alternative narrative.
Buddhists vs muslims in srilanka and Myanmar Jews vs muslims in isreal Christains vs muslims in Europe middle east and Africa,Hindus vs muslims in India,Yajidis vs muslims in Iraq.......!!!!!!!
@@drg598 The Qur'an does not promote violence but rather advocates for peace, justice, and compassion. Verses often cited as promoting violence are generally related to self-defense or specific historical events, and the Qur'an repeatedly emphasizes the sanctity of life, urging believers to seek peaceful resolutions and to treat others with kindness and fairness. The text consistently prioritizes mercy and reconciliation over conflict. Where it is used to justify violence, it is misinterpreted. In such instances, it is justification for other nefarious motives. Furthermore, it's not as if Christians have never started a holy war!
I would love someone who holds contrary views to go on the podcast. Douglas Murray, Matt Goodwin, Konstantin Kisin as some suggestions. I really dont think Alistair and Rory understand the other side of the argument.
The backgrounds these two usually have are so funny in how indicative of their class difference they are. Alastair is usually somewhere with the slightly gaudy decor favoured by a certain older type of middle and upper middle class person. Rory’s aesthetics are usually always fitting of the aristocratic class
This is 3000 fascists spread around the UK, plus some violent football thug hangers on and the curious. The fascists can barely win a council seat. They are not representative of anyone and they couldn't even agree what year to turn the clock back to. But they can cause a lot of trouble and damage. Give them long sentences, longer than the non violent JustStopOil who got 5 years unjustly, for blocking roads.
Probably more Islamic extremists in the country. I see reports that police are arresting Islamic rioters today.. but will channels like this debate it in the same way? Will court appearances and strong sentences be handed out in the same way? Will criminals be treated equally regardless of their race / religion? Reform gained more votes that Lib Dems so people are sending a clear message democratically that they are not happy with the way the country is being run.
Please read the JSO case sentencing remarks to understand why they got as long as they did. They complicated their own initial offence by behaviour during their trial.
Sincere apologies for bringing this up. Given the current national situation affecting us, it was disappointing that the podcast (one I listen to regularly), started with a discussion on the political mechanics in the US. Understandably this is important,but it would have been more sensitive perhaps if our current national situation with race riots would have been at the centre stage, especially for your viewers that are people of colour like me and dont / can’t normally think about living in the USA. More worryingly and immediately for us, there is the anxiety about how safe one feels - across both sides of the fence.
It's not the middle class, its the upper middle class and ironically predominantly the "educated" left (they genuinely believe they are the party of the common man, it would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic). Their lack of awareness is embarrassing and in large part literally the cause of this animosity.
I'm not impressed with the sentencing here. You get 5 years for sitting in a road if you're protesting about oil but only 30 months for punching a policeman and arson and another only gets 20 months for throwing rocks at policemen.
Please read the sentencing remarks made by the judge on the JSO case. They made their initial crime a LOT worse by subsequent behaviour in and around their trial
Spoken like a true democrat. Seriously. He doesn't need to appeal to us. He needs to appeal to independents and centre right. Listen to what they are saying in their podcasts.
I’ve disliked Alasdair Campbell for years. However, I’ve just changed my mind after he said ’is every person who cares about immigration being better controlled - all racists - no they are not’. In this whole messy debate that’s the only time I’ve heard sense and the sooner governments accept that statement the better.
If you wanted a controlled immigration you should have controlled your colonial frenzy ... the migrants come from YOUR (former) colonies, today YOUR neo-colonies ... What are you complaining about ??? They come because of YOU not of them ....
I am wondering what are your thoughts on the fact the week previously the new Chancellor pretty much blamed asylum seekers for a massive cost which means potentially are taxes are going up, is this not an important part of the narrative
The complete inability by people to see the Asylum system is not being used how it was meant to be and is broken.. Until people tackle this hard to deal with issue I think it will forever give the far right a wound to pick at
Ffs, explain to me now exactly how the asylum system is being misused? I’m assuming you’ve bought into the idea that hundreds of thousands of immigrants come here ‘to take our jobs and houses’ and very few are actually fleeing war and persecution?
@@Marvin-dg8vjno, he’s not brave to say it. There’s nothing brave about it. Bravery are the thousands of police officers defending our country from violent thugs and being injured in the process. Bravery are the men and women who make perilous journeys across continents to give their families a chance at survival. Smashing up a Greggs to steal some sausage roles (as good as they are) and setting fire to Holiday Inns while talking a lot of bollocks online isn’t bravery, sorry.
@@Marvin-dg8vjno he’s not. Bravery is policing violent unrest with your body on the line. Bravery is risking everything to find a better home for your family. Bravery is not sitting behind a computer making up falsehoods about poor people who don’t look like you.
@@louisdonington who said anything negative about individual asylum seekers ?. But your argument is we can take unlimited numbers with the resources we have in this country. People cannot afford to put a roof over their heads as it is. We have a million people dependent on food banks . Why not ask them what they think about taking half a million asylum seekers? It is your attitude which will lead to fascism in this country
@@Marvin-dg8vj excuse me? Don’t blame me for fascism, I’ll keep fighting fascism wherever it rears it’s ugly head. Playing into these ideas and not challenging them is what’s allowing fascism to grow, so no, I won’t do that.
In UK, rioters need to feel the full force of the law. However, the newly elected Labour government needs to listen to the concerns of not well off working people and govern to improve not well off working people's lives and create a future for ordinary people in the UK.
Rory and Alastair had the opportunity to hold Clegg to account about what Facebook/Meta has been doing as a platform to assist division and hate but failed to do so as dog don’t eat dog. Why Alastair and Rory thought that ‘this had all gone away’ shows how out of touch they both are .
I’m very disappointed that people believed , instead of waiting for the facts to come out! Rioting is not the way to, the cost of the damage to property and the injuries to the police involved is a disgrace ! We are all bleating on about the cost of living crisis , who will pay for the damage and the sick pay for the injured officers ?
Don't worry about the cost - that's what insurance is for. What you can't easily fix is the fear that people will have faced because of the violence. Many people are a-holes and just want any excuse to fight and wreck things.
The London-Centric policies, in the search for a Sylvan idyll, deindustrialised the rest of the country; mining gone; PF power stations, Refineries gone, Chemical plants gone. London doubles down, becomes a city-state in all but name and outsources the results of their poor choices to towns already dilapidated and broken. A spark was all it took. A nasty, misjudged spark but nevertheless the match was lit. Just the other day an MP on R4 was talking about rejuvenating high streets, for God's sake; High streets have been in decline since supermarkets became the shopping experience and on-line business has killed it in Norwegian Blue style; they are not returning. Gov is still not listening. Rory and Alastair will retreat to their Elite towers. I could write a book.
We need politicians like Yanis, not these two toffs who haven't got a clue why people are so pissed off after 50 yeara of being ignored by politicians. 19:27
The death of the UK high street has not (although many maintain otherwise) been caused by online shopping or changes in shopping habits by consumers. Given the choice, most people still prefer the actual bricks and mortar shopping experience. There was nothing inevitable about it. Mendacious insurance companies (see Legal & General) have bought up freeholds and extorted hideous rents under draconian lease terms which has forced closures of businesses up and down the country.
I listen to these two just to remind myself of what the problem is in this country. It’s guys like these who, alongside other things, believe in giving prisoners the vote.
Riots are racist and xenophobic attacks not protests. Systematic scapegoating of "the other" who are blamed for all government and other failures has fired up latent racism and bigotry.
I'm sick of hearing them being labeled at protests. They're riots. It's criminality. This isn't like the mass protests against the invasion of Iraq. It's gangs of tattooed thickos angry at their own shit lives blaming people who came over here with nothing and made something of themselves
What about the London bombings of 2005, London Bridge attacks, Manchester Arena Bombing, Killing of a Soldier in our streets, Glasgow airport attacks, so many attacks in France Belgium and Germany. Do you not think this has anything to do with the ill feeling?
50.00 in. “In nearly every place, more people have shown up the next day to clean up, than the people in the riots. That is the best of Britain”
His delivery on that was beautiful. Alistair is a brilliant speaker.
you can create a timestamp so people can click it, at 50:00 in
@@wowthatspengRory is much better now more knowledgeable.
We had those far right yesterday night in Bournemouth. The far right was in much smaller numbers than those welcoming the immigrants. Nothing happened, no one was locked up, not throwing of rocks, bricks, or logs.
I think the protesters were surprised with the police force and the lady with a megaphone and people that actually were there to counter them.
There will always be more “good people” than “bad people” in normal circumstances. The point is not to create the social conditions that encourage rioting. Pursuing mass immigration against the will of a large section of the public for 30 plus years and then systematically moving poor third world migrants into the cheapest parts of the country while simultaneously pursuing a cultural program of downgrading, deconstructing and demoralising the core ethnic group of the founding nation - is not exactly the best way to go. This is not going to go away
My Gran was always negative and depressed about the world, the level of crime and all the foreigners taking over. One day I spoke to he and noticed she was unusually cheerful. I asked my mum what was up, and she said her Daily Mail subscription had run out. This lasted for about six months until one of her neighbours took pity on her and started to bring her the Daily Mail daily. Within no time she was back to the depressed, grumpy and fearful self. Not an empirical study, but still found it fascinating to watch.
Ha! My mother-in-law was the same, low-key agitated by eyeroll stories like schoolboys being forced to wear skirts, drag queens doing storytime, 'bush foods' proliferating in our marketplaces. She took it all as gospel, and sadly her subscription never ran out.
I remember much older sister complaining a good few years back that she couldn't get a hearing aid because of the Afghan refugees. It was hard for me not to burst out laughing, but then I realised her daily paper was responsible for this nonsense just as it was when she said she feared what would happen to her grandchildren in future!
Its because they don’t inform themselves broadly and independently on the internet. If they did that they would be furious. Thats whats missing from you assessment. The reality of the country and learning what the government has done to betray you and your future is why they riot.
Conversely the left does the exact same fashion to whip up animosity towards those who would defend your way of life. You of course make no comment there
My folks, both in their 80's are readers of the Daily Moan. Nothing I say will move them from their "England was better in the old days" They conveniently forget all the "darkies" who work tirelessly in the NHS, the East Europeans who pick their veg etc.
What's the difference between your gran's situation and the depression felt by a female Guardian reading student who believes that publication's assertion that the world's woes are entirely down to white supremacy and toxic masculinity.
When will Rory and Alistair ever have a detailed conversation about the effects, both positive and negative, of immigration? Based on current british numbers.
I have listened from episode 1 and it has NEVER been discussed or approached with clarity
No go area. Especially if it's truthful.
They’re both on the left of politics so any discussion about migrants and immigration is strictly off the table. If you don’t understand that you need to do your homework.
Prob take far too long and immigrating has been the topic of every effing program for 20 years now.
How many more conversations do we need?
@ianbarnes8593 so do you.
Saying something doesn't make it fact.
Rory is right wing or right of centre
Alastair is left wing.
Both believe in a free democracy. If that's left 9f where you are then you are a fascist.
@@vetinaris1297 Rory might be considered to be right wing, but, to my ear, that doesn’t seem to ring true when you listen to his views.
The problem with sharing misinformation being a crime. Is who gets to decide what is misinformation? Because it can only be the Authorities or the Established Media. And everyone may want to think about what would have happened if 'sharing misinformation was a crime" in the following cases: Hillsborough, The Miner's Strike. the Grooming crimes. And maybe also note that all these three incidents are the Authorities screwing up in relation to Northern communities.
Your taxonomy of rioters seems to omit opportunistic criminals looking to take advantage of a stretched police resource…how does looting help the ‘ideological cause’?
Yeah you'll always get those types. Reminds me of the 2011 riots.
"screw your rules" can be both ideological and opportunistic
Yup, lots of school kids too because it's the summer holidays, surprisingly this stuff doesn't seem to happen mid-winter, certainly not on this scale.
As a matter of proportion, this smaller demographic is a constant that too often reflects the most neglected parts of society.
Regardless of whether there are anarchists or lunatics joining in they are adding strength to the racists/islamaphobic who are the forefront of this movement and it's impossible to differentiate in the short term
I normally appreciate your insights, but I find your dismissive attitude really disappointing on this issue.
This hasn't happened out of nowhere. It's a Tory government that repeatedly promised to reduce immigration for votes, but never did once elected.
It's a Brexit vote that was implicitly about immigration being won... and then there was even more immigration.
You refuse to engage with that because it would be uncomfortable, but until people do the tensions will continue to boil over.
They seem to have left their brains at the door today, very disappointing from two people I'd normally have great respect
Honestly, I couldn’t agree more. Part of me already knew what the take would be but still disappointed.
Not come up suddenly and yet all these years no riots-sorry protests, for them to only suddenly happen a month into a new government. Must be a coincidence.
Obviously these two gentlemen have never come into contact with people who seriously feel they are not being listened too.
But they did mention how the Tory government repeatedly trying to imply that immigration is a problem and the utterly toxic Brexit debate trying to demonise and other certain groups absolutely was a factor that played heavily into this.
It's no coincidence that this has come out of the industrially devastated towns and cities of the North of England. Both of you served governments that failed to address the lack of investment and the easy way industry and foreign investment could extract high wage employment from these areas. The Tories have consistently shouted with pride lower taxes while decimating public services. You have also never seriously addressed immigration concerns in areas immigrants are sent to simply because they are run down. The north has waited and waited for tickle down, while the south gets HS2 and cross rail etc etc. To not accept any responsibility as part of the political elite is ridiculous. Now the excuse will be there is no money. Well, we know there is as banks full of it in the Channel Islands, British Virgin Islands, and Gibraltar, but no, we can't touch that less the city of London might cough. This isn't going to go away. These people voted Reform and have less than a handful of MPs, while Labour has a huge majority based on 20% of the eligible vote. People are more unhappy than you, and the rest of the media can get close to understanding. You helped set the system that insists on weak unions, zero security of employment, minimum hour contracts, worst pensions in Europe, and no social housing for young men. They are expected to work long hours with no security for crap wages to be handed to wealthy landlords and then be thankful? Wake up.
Yeah I noticed a dismissal of 'these are people who were economically abandoned with no prospects' as some kind of right wing rhetoric.
That is what led to this.
Well said Tony but will things really change? I pray they do but not hopeful
How about said people taking some accountability and actually work and show some initiative rather than riot?
Spot on.
@luvdasitar I guess you don't know the "type" of young man I am talking about. Let me offer you an insight. Matthew left school with no formal qualifications, having had learning difficulties with dyslexia his whole schooling time. He was offered support two hours a week, but in a class of 34, it didn't make a lot of difference. Since leaving, he has worked as a labourer in the building industry. He has only ever been offered zero hours contracts, through agents and never through an employer. The agent will offer up to 6 months contract but usually shorter at a set hourly rate. No holidays, no sick pay, no benefits. Contracts never last the term offered and can be cancelled five minutes before work starts with no notice. It happens frequently, often they last two weeks with a week in hand required. The work is hard physical labour and often very dirty. Almost exclusively, the charge hand on site is Albanian, Romanian, or Bulgarian as the contractors prefer that nationality. Most labourers working on the site under his direct control are the same nationality. If the work shifts or dries up, Matthew will be let go through the agent first. He has no representation through a union because agents simply won't offer him work if he was a member. He struggles every day with anxiety due to rent and bills and the grind of hard physical work, lack of work security, and the blatant unfairness built into the system. This doesn't apply to those lucky enough of the same nationality as the charge hand. For some reason, they feel far more secure, and because they are usually friends, they have support. Matthew rents a bedroom in a house with 4 to 6 other people in Manchester because he has a better chance of working there. It costs him £700 to 800 a month to be close to the city centre. One shared bathroom and kitchen. It was last decorated 15 to 20 years ago. Rubbish in large bins lines the streets almost constantly. He has problems with landlords who only ever offer a 6 month contract and then review payments and look to move him out or increase rent. Due to the unreliable nature of his work, it's impossible to get a permanent place to stay, never mind a flat which he would really love. He can't afford a car but parking it would be expensive in any case. He hasn't had a holiday in 7 years except public holidays. He takes over time when ever its offered. Though he can be offered good wages of between £16 to £19/hr because he is finished so often his actual wage is closer to £11 to 12/hr. He can be out of work for weeks on end, looking, waiting for agents to call. He has tried to get part-time food delivery jobs on a bicycle, but it's well recognised that the multinational companies dont seem to employ as first choice English people even though it's illegal. How is he generally treated by the charge hand and his fellow workers of the same nationality? Some are good but often badly, seen as lazy and English even though he isn't lazy but he is English. This leads to him feeling isolated and a target at work. Birds of a feather really do stick together. I appreciate you in your life, likely don't know any Matthews. Well, I do, and I would never assume anything stereo typical of anyone because I don't live their daily experience. But if I did, I might just become very angry. I might just become bitter. I might just listen to people who say they are interested in me and have a way to help because nobody else is. Because those who don't want to help expect me to be happy with my lot in life and thank them for it. Don't talk about night school and further study. Even if having been cut to the wick, it can be found, it's far to expensive. For Matthew, everything is expensive. That's because he has no access to any state benefits as he is a single young man and the decency to work every day in a job soft handed people could never imagine existed. But people jump to conclusions they watch TV and read the papers and have their opinions cultivated about Matthew and his friends by billionaires living in tax havens who surely would only ever tell us the truth. They even sponcer political parties and make sure we all know what we need to know about Matthew. What's more they consistently promote low taxes and a happy life for themselves, I guess. Who can blame them? Well, maybe Matthew and his mates might, but they have been told by the same people it's down to immigrants. You may have guessed I know Matthew, I actually know quite a few Matthew's. I know they have had enough, and I'm sorry they can't be more eloquent in saying it, but nobody seems to be able to hear them when they have in the past because they are too busy I guess. Having their nice lives.
The riots are, predominantly, the result of years of economic neglect of mainly Northern towns and cities by successive governments. Of course there is an appalling racist and anti-Islamic element and that and the dreadful stabbings are what seems to have sparked the latest troubles. But so many people in these areas (largely thanks to the Thatcherite dismantling of the manufacturing and industrial sectors which destroyed many communities), especially young people, feel a sense of hopelessness over job and career prospects. Yes, the perpetrators must be prosecuted and punished, but the new government must also address the deep-seated problems that persist in these neighbourhoods.
Yes, this is what happens when you ignore large sways of the population and don't address their concerns.
Anyone remember "Levelling Up"?
That's an intelligent response - I don't entirely agree with it, but it makes good points, it doesn't excuse thuggery and brutality, it doesn't mistake violent drunken hooligans for legitimate protestors. Some others could learn from your post, though I bet they won't.
Pretty spot on to be fair, the evil thing about it all is that Farage has spotted this rage in the downtrodden and has basically brainwashed them into thinking that some foreigner who's been given the same lot in life as them is somehow the enemy. I partly sympathise with the rioters in that regard, if I lived in the circumstances that some of them do I'd be angry and want to smash stuff, too; but foreigners are not the reason why they are struggling, it's decades of neglect from the government.
Solid comment, though I think you're downplaying the immigration/religious aspect of it a little. Right or wrong, people are upset and angry, specifically about immigration and non-british values.
We'll never know how much of this could have been avoided if the economic issues you describe were addressed, either in the past or more recently. But I do think there's a risk of saying "these people aren't really angry about what they say they're angry about, they just don't like being poor". No, they are angry about specific issues. I'm sure the economic issues are fuelling it to an extent but it's not a get out of jail card, this isn't an issue that will magically go away if we fix economic disparities.
This is not about the colour of someone's skin, it is about reducing immigration. Reducing immigration is not a 'racist' issue, but the media etc. Like to label it as a racist issue to help it go away. The politicians are too weak to resolve this, or actually want this immigration to continue so anybody who is against immigration they can label a racist. I like having a multicultural society as long as we all live together and respect each other. But the doors cannot be left open as it is affecting loads of British citizens of all races and faith.
So, if no Brits are willing to do essential jobs in the NHS , food production , care for the elderly, and with an ageing population, who is going to do this work, without immigration???
But the racists are ONLY complaining about dark- skinned immigrants, which IS racist.
totally agree
And long term consequences like racial n religious issues.
@avasworld8633 So , if the NHS , food producers, hospitality industry , and care sector cannot get Brits to do these essential jobs, then who do you think is going to do them, if not immigrants ?
Gnomes and fairies 🤣🤣🤣
Progressives in America could not be happier with this VP choice. He received endorsements from unions and Bernie Sanders.
Too bad "progressives" and literally all of their policies are catastrophically unpopular outside of tiny internet bubbles.
And endorsed by Pelosi and Joe Manchin.
I think for all his insight and learning, Rory is missing the fact that Walz is a MASSIVE cutie-pie.
Walz doesn't bring her any voters she wasn't already getting.
The DSA endorsed Walz. They also congratulated Maduro on his election 'victory.'
Anyone else see the problem here?
Harris lost the RINO votes; they'll go back to Trump.
anywhere ............
Disagree about Tim Walz. A genius pick. Just watch his first speech. You can't tick box this stuff - warmth, like-ability, integrity, decency... voters are going to love (even if flawed)
Absolutely! I had no idea who he is, but watching him, he's a GREAT pick. Kind AND competent.
I agree, he is brilliant.
One of the jokes about Walz is about his climate policies: not only does he support heat pumps for homes, he knows how to install them!
So one week on - PA is +4 for Harris , right alongside MI + WI. 😊
I don’t understand what people see in the man. We’re drinking the Kool-Aid hard right now in America.
That hotel was also housing abused women fleeing domestic violence and their kids.
I'm old. In my youth, the individuals currently rioting would have been called rent a mob. They are no different to the football hooligans of the 1980s. Their sole purpose is to engage in violence and destruction, and some looting on the side, they enjoy it, the issues are simply an excuse. If not this, there would be something else they'd latch onto to hate, ever decreasing circles of anyone or anything that isn't exactly like them.
It's about time we called it out for what it is, far-right thuggery.
We simply offer false legitimacy to these yobs by discussing the issues in the same breath as the rioting.
So why didn’t we see those thugs on the streets in the 90’s, 00’s & 10’s?
They are the same type of thugs but they’re unified and being organised for political ends.
It is probably too late to be discussing the issues that have brought them out, half this country sent a clear message back in 2016 that they wanted migration controlled and, for whatever reasons, it wasn’t, so now the judicial system will have to deal with it - the present day police force is mostly new recruits with little experience of dealing with mass violence and on Sept 9th they’re letting 7,000 prisoners out early to make space in prisons and there are already 400 arrestees from the last 2 weeks waiting to fill it back up again.
It may look like the 70’s but it’s not - for better or worse, the state had the capacity to control these situations then, it doesn’t now.
@@JohnRawlinson-lt3uzsounds like you are trying to say I want border closed, as I don't like who are arriving, in the most don't call me a racist way.
@@JohnRawlinson-lt3uz immigration got worse in 2018 👍, remarkably, after the Referendum. The more you close the legal routes, the more you open up to people smuggling. Not to mention, actual Migrants, are grouped together with people like Overseas Students (something which has increased massively in the last few years). If you made a pie chart of immigration in the UK, you wouldn't even be able to see "Illegals". Also, they're being put up in hotels and hanging around for so long because the Tories gutted the Immigration Office. If we were processing these people properly, admitting legitimate cases and deporting false claims, the issues would clear. It's just the massive backlog of claims has completely ground to a halt thanks to the Tories mishandling the books.
Utter and total lies, this has been building for two years. The migrants in that hotel sleep all day and wander the area disturbing residents at night. The night before the riot a 16 year old girl was raped by a migrant and he was released by police. Rotherham grooming gangs that the Labour council covered up, need i go on. Initial violence at the hotel was started by the migrants waving their genitalia from the windows, openly waving knives. Give me strength.
@@jirwin32does it? You must be much more focused on peoples’ races than I am to pick up on it.
It's interesting how defining sex, race, and religion is in American poltics. I know these issues will be in play in similar places like the UK, Australia, Canada. But I don't think any of these would say, quite so publicly and deliberatly, 'we can't choose another woman, another black person, someone else from london'. It's a bit weird.
It only isn't in 'nation states' with a dominant ethnicity, we only have to at Northern Ireland. All across Africa, India, much of Asia it is. China, Korea, Bangladesh, most of the Europe it isn't (much).
@@Benjamin.Jamin. I tried, but I don't quite get what you are saying
@@simac3880 Same here: it's a mystery.
@@eshaibraheem4218 I guess it goes back to the founding fathers, and 'everyone being equal'. The founding fathers being slave owners, of course
@@simac3880he’s saying that race plays a less central role when you have a single dominant ethnicity
Tim Walz
Don't underestimate his military experience, this is a big plus for many voters.
Yip, balanced pick. Not like Vance who is a puppet.
@@coderider3022Wrong. He's the same as the Vance pick. It's doubling down on the base, just like Vance. This guy ain't winning any independents by saying "socialism is neighbourlyness".
He let Minnesota burn and freed almost of of the rioters.
@@adtastic1533 In my experience, very few in the US actually understand the meaning of socialism.
They tend to conflate it with Marxism, Trotskyism, national socialism(which is what what Hitler was)
Using these terms have specific meanings.
I had to rewrite this comment four times to get it past the sense or. I have no idea why they're blocking it other than it presents facts that don't support the Blue narrative.
The funniest part about this is, media is so "buy assed" and Blues so willfully "ignore ant," ya'll are praising Tim Walz for serving in the Minnesota National Guard, while making fun of JD Vance who most of you probably were never even told was in the Marines and served in Iraq.
Walz was in the national guard for 24 years retired as a command Sargent major, was a congressman for 14 years, chairman of the veterans affairs committee. He then ran for governor 2 times and won. Tim Walz is more interesting than Rory appears to understand.
He is basically apple pie in human form…. Very appealing to wavering republicans from what I have seen.
Yes, I can't understand Rory's tepid response to Walz. The man exudes down-to-earth decency, and his record speaks for itself.
Neither side has to worry about their die hard supporters so the Democrats choosing someone that is as far right as a Democrat can get is a no brainer.
A gun toting, vet, football coach (but teacher *spit) ticks about as many boxes as is humanly possible without actually being a Republican.
That 'apple pie' comment - excellent.
Love everyone praising Tim Walz for being in the National Guard in Minnesota while openly insulting JD Vance for being in the Marines in Iraq.
@@twelvecatsinatrenchcoat JD was there for 6 months and worked in a PR office. Seriously.
Waltz may not bring a direct swing state, but indirectly he is the most effective candidate. He is highly regarded by young voters who will be key in Michigan. He is well liked by blue collar voters in Ohio, Detroit and Arizona. And he can package himself as ‘America’s dad’. He is anti war, pro trade union which is popular among republicans and independents. I see it as a great move!
Walz has accomplished a ton of progressive policies in MN. Free school lunches, paid family leave, leagalizing weed, codify abortion rights.
Remember these two are pretty conservative and they won't wanna talk about all that
Campbell is no Conservative.
There is different between UK n US conservatism. These two are no conservative in the eyes of American voters.
@@billhicks8 you must be joking. Rory isn't even conservative, he's centre left and Campbell is too
@@Llooktookcentre left is generous
Coach Walz! Outstanding choice.
I am a Hindu and I have lived in the UK for 51 years. I have seen the erosion of English culture over the last 20 years. Blair's government stated mass immigration and the Tories have made it worse. Enough in enough. I utterly condemn the thuggery seen on our streets of late but I absolutely understand the sentiment of these protests and I speak for many many Hindus who have settled in the UK, integrated with the English culture and respect the laws of the land. STOP the illegal immigration, seriously control immigration and crack down HARD on extremists of every kind. If extremism and radicalisation are not dealt with, we will have a far greater problem to deal with in the next few years.
Stop immigration from India and south east asia entirely , thats a safer bet isnt ?
If you are Hindu in the UK you KNOW that you are there because the UK colonized India. If you were colonized by France instead, you would be ... in France .. If you were not colonized (the case of no one except the UK, France etc ...) you would probably in those countries ... Why do you blind yourself on the UK responsibility of the UK in the "illegal" immigration it has triggered ???
@TonThonFraisdEau An inaccurate statement. My heritage is Indian but I was born in East Africa and my parents came to the UK out of choice. Nothing to do with colonisation. Other members of my family chose the US and the Netherlands.
I agree but the far right doesn’t care whether you integrated or not they have been attacking brown people Philippine nurses and black people here in America they blame Hispanic immigrants because they happen to be the largest minority UK they blame Muslims because they are the largest minority the truth is they are white supremacist.
Mass immigration is a problem for social cohesion in all Western countries. The only people advocating it are the political class
Alistair Campbell demonstrating how politicians, media & metropolitan elite STILL are not listening to the concerns of the majority. If democratic voting is ignored then eventually it does lead to social unrest. Luxury values on show. Concerned citizens are not fascists..
As a belgian, I am wondering why ID cards are so strongly opposed when they could be leveraged against illegal immigration. Would love to understand your point of view
What does identifying as a Belgian have to do with your question?
@@pabs7373 Just that we have ID cards and they are not an issue for us
This isn’t Russia.
@@EersteMinisterwe might have ID cards here in Belgium but they are just showroom dressing when politics don't apply the law that is tied to carry an ID , just as many illegals here.😮
@@ianbarnes8593 neither is Belgium
I am glad you addressed the elephant in the room Rory: if demographics continue as they do now it is only a matter of time until there are more non-white than white people in Britain. This is not only a matter of skin but also values and culture which means identity. Many of the people rioting feel that their culture and identity is being threatened and unless that fear is addressed successfully racism and even conflict will keep emerging.
Gotta love peolle who i will bet LOVE the brittish monarchy crying about that hahahahaha
So they're concerned about this shift in racial demographics but not because of race ("it's not about skin")... ? This doesn't make sense
What imported values or infringements are these people protesting exactly? Where do traditions of rule of law, hospitality and humility rank on their list of 'english values' ?
@@tjm756 Islamist values.
@@tjm756Marrying first cousins resulting in mentally stunted children. Honour killing, forced marriage, child marriage, homophobia, FGM need we go on?
@@tjm756 Marrying first cousins resulting in mentally stunted children. Honour killing, forced marriage, child marriage, homophobia, FGM need we go on?
I think Tim Walz is an inspired choice - he is a larger-than-life, lovable, warm, genuine personality who you just can't help loving. What a team!!!
Is there mass dissatisfaction over immigration levels? YES. Have politicians been successful in dealing with it, over decades? NO. Should people be able to protest over it? YES. Should they use violence to meet their aims? NO. is the violence and thuggery down to just protesters? NO. Most has been committed by feral youths wanting to have a go at the police and steal. Will these protests disappear due to political and police actions? Definitely NO. In fact they will likely meld into other protest about various issues including economic poverty. I'm actually surprised violent protests haven't occurred earlier. I do not condone them but if your from a working class area frustration is boiling over.
In the last 2 years 2.3 million people have immigrated to the U.K. where is the budget for this coming from? We need to fund the associated infrastructure. Low paid immigration will not pay for this. The economy is on its knees, we have a major drug epidemic. Neither party seems to have answers, just “nothing to see here” attitude. Blaming a few thugs is a distraction.
Alistair says this is a form of terrorism..that sentence should send a shiver through our society, and is exactly how so called conspiracy theorists said it would eventually be used to stop any kind of dissent.
post the source of your numbers please, I thought it was 1.4 million which is too high of course
They pay for themselves, through the taxation system, no?
That's how the entire country works. You don't say "2 million babies were born last year..."
But migrants are always of young working age, don't put stress on the healthcare system.
But besides all that, the reason we have migrants, is simply because we need them. What sector do you work in? I'm sure whatever it is relies on migrant staff. Be it the service sector, healthcare, farming... we need migrants to keep the economy going.
If we turn off the tap, entire businesses will just die
A better number would be net migration, given that some people come and go, and have very limited drain on society.
I'm guessing you didn't do that because the numbers, whilst abnormally high for last year- are still quite moderate in the grand scheme of things.
Lets not forget there's a war on in Europe so migration is to be expected. (If someone invaded East Anglia I may also migrate.)
What's your answer?
Riots on the streets, and civil War??
Why can't people who knowingly post false information on Social Media that leads to public unrest be be charged?
It’s called Free Speech and it’s what differentiates us from dictatorships and tyranny.
Proving that someone knows something is false when they say it is pretty difficult. It would also backfire on the left because they do it as well. Hope not hate shared something about a Muslim woman being acid attacked. Something guaranteed to bring their “far right thugs” into the streets with bats and machetes. They will keep the law vague so that the double standards can be maintained
Freedom of speech.
Most people in most countries can tell lies. It's not illegal.
It's not illegal for politicians or those running for office to tell lies to individuals or groups at rallies and campaign speeches.
It's not illegal to spread false information, misinformation or disinformation.
It's only a crime if you incite someone to do something criminal.
I'm only.asking questions is a cowards way of avoiding responsibility by claiming they weren't inciting. Any reasonable person can see they are but that's not the legal bar to cross.
Snowflakes like to insult others and scream freedom of speech whenever they have to grow up and be responsible for their speech. They want freedom to say anything while restricting others right to say they caused it.
Freedom of speech? Maybe we should ban that too? 🤡👍
Come down hard on the rioters but get a grip of social media and then stop looking weak / out of control of the illegal immigration issue.
Then start to really build up communities and promote understanding respect and integration between cultures particularly in poorer areas.
Can't see all of this happening unfortunately. These are scary times.
I agree that immigration rates are too high and they should be controlled simply because the infrastructure can't cope. However, I don't think these riots exist purely because of immigration. Some of the worst rioting occurred in Belfast, a city over 90% white. Additionally cities like Hartlepool and Middlesborough, while deprived, don't have large immigrant populations. Previous race riots in the 1950's and 1920's occurred in times of very low levels of immigration.
@@saifmadni12we live in the internet age and they buy into the narrative that it is happening to the whole Europe, therefore they do not want it to happen to Ireland before it is too late.
How do we "get a grip of social media"? The big social media companies are based in the US where they have a far broader notion of free speech than we have in Europe. And Twitter is owned by Musk who literally supports the agenda of these rioters.
If your strategy is to control the people by controlling what they see and hear that's a doomed strategy, unless you want to go full totalitarian like China. Liberalism is based on a huge gamble: that good ideas naturally drive out bad ones and free speech leads to better ideas. It's been spectacularly successful for about 200 years. I think we have no choice but to double down on this and find a way to make it work in the Internet age.
Good points Chris. I feel the issue we have with SM is that algorithms amplify extreme messages. A newspaper or other media had editors who would be responsible for content, so there was a degree of control. At present there seems to be a lack of accountability when it comes to the SM platforms. The onus is on the poster, but the issue I have is how the algorithms amplify certain messaging / content. For this I feel the SM companies must be held accountable.
Ironically we are posting this on a SM site 😂
@@robc8892 if I keep scrolling cat video on TikTok, I expect to be flooded with cat video and not dog video. Please don’t take my amplification power away.
Being a Dutchman in Britain these 2 gents give me always a sense they are speaking my language ... Keep these positive dialogues between centre left and right going !!
absolutely
Would like to see more positive dialogues between the Left and centre Left as well
In the Netherlands Wilders’ party is the largest so I don’t get your point.
I disagree with most of what Alistair Campbell is saying here. Too much Farage bashing too often and banging on about Brexit. The key question is just how much illegal migration is he willing to accept which is putting massive strains on services and infrastructure. Keir’s messaging fine, come on!
@@andyc6582you havd to ask, where are other MP's on migrants.
They're letting Starmer do his job.
Farage is like a back seat driver who is constantly looking for problems, but no solutions, when Starmer has literally got riots, cost of living, and getting into the job.
The extremists rioting on the streets are the tip of an iceberg. Some of them may well be Islamophobic but the silent majority of the UK are tolerant and decent people who are simply concerned for their livelihoods. And who wouldn't be given the scale of the change - "net immigration of 1.5 million in two years" (Rory's words). This represents change on a huge scale and nothing much is being done about it.
Absolutely right, I have lost hope in the left (of which I am ever so slightly a part of (but really I am specifically talking about those that manage to remain in the increasingly extreme left)) their heads are so far up their own arses they have not seen the woods for the trees for decades. Completely and utterly clueless.
Starmer and alistair want kids in towns and cities attacked
Completely disagree about two tier policing doesn't exist. At a tactical layer it very much does and it's at the tactical layer where most people have their interactions with the police. We have had the westmidlands spokesperson admit the police relied on community leaders for their intel on the coming protest. In this highly emotional period, it's hard to understand why they relied on people who are obviously going to be biased. I seriously think the government needs to get grip on policing and follow through on their reinvestment.
The more I watch these guys the more I realise how far removed from the reality of every day life for the majority they are.
It’s doesn’t help politicising the word Islamophobia. That is a genuine fear, not of Muslims but of islam.
But they don’t even know what Islam is. And they don’t know who Muslims ar I remember a Sikh doctor being attacked with a cleaver in North Wales, because they thought he was Muslim
@@philomel1000
at the group level there are themes consistent in the islamic world that completely negate western/british values and pose a threat to them if allowed to grow at the rate they are continuing (which is exponential in the UK, doubling every 10 years). Freedom of speech/expression and views on sexual minorities are two that immediately come to mind but there are ample more.
one manifestation of this we have already seen domestically, aside the numerous radicalised episodes of violence we have witnessed on our streets in the name of Islam and the accounts of child grooming which are carried out by the few not the many, is in high % boroughs have indicated to elect their MP based on their stance on conflicts in the Middle East as a priority, over and above the numerous challenges we are facing back home. not only is this issue of secondary concern to most working class british people, but many also disapprove political support for a (officially) prescribed islamist autocratic terrorist organisation. Polls have also indicated over 50% of british muslims believe being gay should be illegal, one may also assume this number to be less liberal for those incoming in future from less liberal nations. and with that number growing, the need to assimilate and integrate into british/Western society increasingly less important.
these are just some of areas that concern people, there are many more, although as the gentleman pointed out it is not the individuals themselves but the religious ideology and it's incompatibility with western values and outlook that is the concern for many
@@philomel1000 the riots the other day took place for a separate yet related issue. net migration into this country has been completely unsustainable for 30 years. more in that period than the 800 years that preceded it, and to the detriment of living standards for the "incumbent" working class citizen of the towns that have been transformed as a result.
people have been voting on this for decades but it has been ignored by the country's political leadership (red or blue). to suggest that the UK economy would crumble without this short term boost of labour is a lazy argument that props up terrible policymaking. until 1940 the UK was 99% white british and Britain was placed in the top few % globally economically. good policymakers have always been able to incentivise the labour force to skill up and work in priority areas. the easy/short term solution is to import the labour, which we have done, but this has been terribly misguided and is principally to blame for the extreme unrest we are now witnessing.
whatsmore, there is clearly a major double standard in treatment and policing of any such protest (simply observe response to the Palestine/BLM/Leeds riot vs. the recent riots for example) - which is adding gasoline to an already enraging inferno.
@@philomel1000 most have a good idea of Islam and it’s goals.
@@philomel1000 Nonsense. Many have first hand experience.
From "The Free Press":
On Friday, Alastair Campbell, Tony Blair’s former spokesman and former director of communications for the Labour Party, posted a clip of Murray with the following caption:
“Think @metpoliceuk might want to take a look at this book plug.”
Rory Stewart, how can you have anything to do with this guy? Unsubscribing.
I dont think most people who have issues with immigration think " all your problems are caused by immigration". I think they think: some issues are caused by immigration and I keep voting for it to be reduced, and the politicians do nothing. That is the real source of frustration, social media posts are the symptom.
@@Gridpipe lack of housing and it's not unfair or racist to say that existing UK citizens living in crowded or older properties should not get priority. Charity begins at home.
@@russellbradley454so if the Tory government did not for 10 years stop building homes and the likes of reform aka Ferage didn't lie and mislead people and cause people to want Brexit, maybe we would not be in this state. So why not start from that point instead of straight to blaming the immigrants, like they want you to.
End class wars. There's a reason they want people fighting each other. So you don't pay attention to their yachts.
You'd be surprised
@bentucker2301 not really. The people rioting are to the anti-immigration argument, like' just stop oil' are to the people concerned with climate change. Normal people concerned with climate change don't think this is the only or most pressing concern in the world.
@@Gridpipe that is true and while I think we are generally in agreement I take slight issue with the word most.
Can someone ask why there's no "Hinduphobia"? They're largely brown people, too. But they also respect our values, assimilate, and contribute to society in very positive ways. Quit blaming the wrong people.
- More shared history between Europe and the Muslim world due to proximity, e.g. the crusades, the reconquest.
- Closely related faiths - People from Christian countries can understand and talk about Islam more easily than they can about Hinduism, which seems very difficult to understand for outsiders.
- Recent wars in the Middle East and terror attacks in the US and Europe. Since 9/11 Islam has been more of a focus in the news than Hinduism.
The average far right muppet can't distinguish them apart and often throws them all in the same bag. Unless you think they're asking people whether they are Pakistani or Indian, which is hilarious.
Indians went through a lot of shit throughout the 20th century in the UK, and still do. They are the largest immigrant group. The absence of a specific word to describe it doesn't mean the phenomenon doesn't exist.
😂. You have a serious case of confirmation bias. I'm surprised that you listen to such a podcast because words such as XL Bully, bruv , innit ain't the flavour of the day
"But they also respect our values, assimilate, and contribute to society in very positive ways." So do the vast majority of Muslims. E.g. my GP, my dentist, the lads who fix my car, half the staff at the hospital, my solicitor, the local opticians, etc. etc.
Hindus and Sikhs are non proselytising and integrate without imposing their beliefs on others. Coexisting in harmony with Christian's, Jews and agnostics/atheists. There's an elephant in every western nation that is a constant source of division and no amount of tolerance will abate it, indeed tolerance only encourages further demands and concessions. It is by it's nature a religion of conquest that seeks power to rule and convert or destroy all non believers.
After Keir spoke about law and order he should of said this. "I know people are hurting, frustrated and angry, we get it. We have only been in government for a month, please calm down and we will do all we can to undo the chaos that the Conservative government has inflicted on you over the past 14 years. Please respect the rule of law and we will do our level best to try and listen to your concerns". However, Kier decided to do the opposite and pour petrol on the flames. The rest is history.
Exactly - but Labour have form in this area. Remember Gordon Brown being caught off-mic decrying that “bigoted woman” who dared to raise the immigration matter? Likewise, Lord Mandy saying, “the working class have nowhere to go.” AC with his selective memory failed to note these incidents.
@@ellenoneill7853 spot on!
Starmer should pander to the racist far-right thugs who are burning down libraries and attacking Muslims and migrants and tell them that the lies they've been fed by the conservative media are true. Got it.
@@sbwordsShe was a bigoted woman. One of the few occasions Gordon Brown got something right.
These are people who are violently attacking the Police and trying to set fire to hotels containing asylum seekers. What are they "frustrated and angry" about? The presence of Muslims in the UK perhaps?
You are making the completely unwarranted assumption that there are millions of people cheering on these thugs and ready to join them. There are not. Very soon the small number of violent far right activists will have been arrested and this will all come to an end.
TRIP logic:
if Labour -> praise
if other Left -> kindness
else -> anger and hyperbole
trip?
@@ddandymann the rest is politics
@@tornadoeye Thanks, now I feel like an idiot.
possibly allowing 700+ thousand legal migrants a year into the country is causing problems for local communities not sure how we can keep housing them when it takes 5 years to "build" 1.5 mill houses
The majority of the 700k excluding students coming here are doing the jobs no one here wants to do, without this influx the British economy would be in a worse state than it already is...😮
@@topthecat2259it makes the situation worse. Undermines the economy and puts pressure on our social services and healthcare systems, not to mention housing.
Except a huge percentage of those people work in our health and social care sector, pay huge visa fees and money directly to the health service for their care and the care for their family. Housing is an issue but they are keeping the economy afloat.
@@topthecat2259 so British society was defunct until Blair's government (followed increasingly so by the tories) decided to ramp average net migration levels up from the low 10s of thousands to the high hundreds of thousands? there are other policy methods of educating and incentivising a domestic labour force to gain key skills and work in important areas
@@topthecat2259 I suspect you're right but I'm interested in understanding your claim in more depth - can you provide links to your research/data sets please?
Rory and Alistair - do you have any emotional reaction when you see a pub attacked by men carrying Palestinian flags?
' a man attacked a pub' do you even listen to your self.
Yes, they get off on it
30% of new births in the UK being from mothers born abroad strikes me as really alarming.
Within 30 years the indigenous population will be a minority.
Alarming?
It's just a statistics. Why are you alarmed that children are born?
@@vetinaris1297because he’s alarmed by massive demographic shifts in his country of origin
@LiquidSpiral why? Has he not lived here very long? Does he not know the history of our country?
Does he realise that when thise 30% grow up, they'll be British born mothers and fathers if they have children? Does he know birth rates among people born here have dropped dramatically and that affects the stats?
Interestingly, decades ago I had a chat with an English footbool houligan in bar. He had travelled to South of France with his buddies to watch a match an fight. He explained this happily with no anger, remorse or anything. This was their way of having fun. With also obviously trying to get laid. Didn't happen with me but this was the only time I have heard anyone talk about his (or her) violence. He was clearly not drunk.
I have studied a fair amount about violence as it is very common in Finland where I live, work place bullying, bullying in schools & universities, intimate partner & sexual. Often serious. Violence gives the committer a sense of power incl release of related hormones.
Most (70%) of bullies are successful people.
I think societies are unwilling to discuss these things honestly. I think because many of these worst bullies are powerful people.
On top of this, poverty, immigration problems, joblessness, what have you.
I come from Middlesbrough, and Darlington is down the road, Hartlepool even closer. These are some of the most deprived areas in England I am not surprised by these riots, lots of poor angry people blaming immigration for their problems.... Their problems being: cost of living, terrible housing conditions, crime, huge public service waiting lists (NHS etc), closing businesses etc. just an all round disaster, last time it was like this was probably in the late 80's.
Personally I think blaming immigration and the few thousand that come in illegally on boats is just ignorant, but that is the point, lots of uneducated ignorant people fed lies and missinformation (on social media) whiling having awful lives leads to the same outcome every time throughout history.
Bristol too. And some of the people prosecuted own their own homes, are landlords, business directors, etc. and further some travelled in from Bath and elsewhere just to riot.
As a brown person there in person, their chants also weren't very "working class," just racist
I guarantee you live in an all-White area.
@@OsweebMosley yes the north east is mostly white, less so then 20 years ago though. Sadly in hard times the peasant rabbles get their pitch forks out and target anything or anyone who is new and different. its been like this since the birth of civilization. Only education breaks this trend.
Same as the 80s but we didn't have riots. We fought for our jobs. We didn't fight our neighbours.
The tories took our jobs. They never gave them back. Farage was a tory and d8dnt stabd up for us at all. Reform exploiting the situation for their own ends.
Labour will at least try and get jobs or money back into the NE.
No, what’s happened is both Labour and Conservative Governments have failed to slow immigration. More importantly nobody has made a serious effort. Rwanda was a joke. In any business you would look at the objective, then work out what obstacles you faced before embarking on a slow, expensive misplaced project which gets stopped at the last minute.
It’s Yes Minister all over again.
You two know better. This is not football hooliganism, it’s ordinary people probably being dragged along by political agitators. Germany post Versailles ? An exaggeration for sure, but those people weren’t all Nazis, but went along for the ride. Time will tell
Race riots; Alastair is spot on.
I'm not sure Alastair's shirt works with the bed spread.
A phobia is an unbased unreasonable fear.
Is Islam such a thing?
Yes
There is a big difference between radical Islam and the rest. As we have seen today with Taylor Swift having to cancel concerts in Vienna because of an Islamic terror plot- this is what "globalising the intifada" means. How many people who aren't Muslim even know the difference between Sunni and Shia? And yet so many think they know all about the Middle East and it is a binary opinion, at best.
A passionate belief in something that might not exist. To some, football and racism or sexism function almost like a religious practice. Education and dialogue are the only way to tackle this in order to move forward as a species.
I can't imagine why people in Rotherham would possibly have an issue with Islam.
You can, I can, everybody can - but the murders in Southport have nothing to do with Islam, and that's the subject under discussion. When there's a pogrom going on, as there plainly is, it's cruelly irresponsible to blame the victims of it by bringing in snide comments like yours, which take the actions of entirely unconnected people, in Rotheram and elsewhere, as though they had even the vaguest connection with it. What you're doing, in effect - and I don't suppose that was your intent - is exploiting the murder of little girls on Islam; even though the killer isn't even a Muslim, nor an immigrant.
I know, it's 3087 miles between Rotherham and Mecca.
Well said
I love dense Americans who have no clue what they are talking about or the place they have never visited.😆
Some Muslims commit crimes. Some Christians commit crimes. Some atheists commit crimes. Its individuals who commit crimes not 'Islam' or 'Christianity' or 'Atheism'.
Elon Musk is not a living a genius, he's simply a ruthless opportunistic businessman who has pretty much cookoo'd his way into pretty much every business he owns.
Well said.
Then you go and do the same then. If thar is all he did then you should be able to repeat it.
@@Richard-d1y You can get rich by robbing a bank.
Should he do that?
Let’s see, he is a billionaire who created an EV company, Spacex and will be the first to put humans on Mars. What did you do besides eat your waffles this morning? Spoken like a typical ‘incel’, success hating loser.
@@bakedbean37 Forget it. You repeat what Musk has done. So easy? Do it.
Alistair and Rory, having been following your conversations for some months now, this has been one of my favourite discussions. Your collective wisdom and research shine through in what is an eminently accessible take, not only on the strange times we find ourselves in, but also on the complexities and tensions of the human condition. I look forward to your next release!
The riots are awful and condemnable. However, public is frustrated at the decades of turning blind eyes to illegal immigration, and the problems certain immigration groups (which no wants to name - and that is *the* problem).This dismissiveness is the exact environment which allowed Trump & Brexit to win.
No one has turned a blind eye to illegal immigration. It has been a topic of debate for at least 20 years and countless Home Secretaries, Labour and Conservative, have announced various measures and schemes to counter it.
The essence of populism is believing that there are no complex problems, just lazy, stupid or corrupt politicians who fail to implement obvious solutions. But it's not true. Some problems just don't have easy solutions. They may not even have difficult solutions. Some problems can only be managed and controlled, not eliminated.
Thing is asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants. The ironic thing is the number of boats which they want to stop, have massively increased since January 2021 because Brexit took us out of the Dublin III regulation, it made it more appealing to come to the UK, knowing they couldn’t be moved on to other EU countries. The conservatives then had to start stockpiling these people and weren’t processing them because 70-80% of applications are successful so that would look bad.
@@Firepea all of the people who have crossed the channel have done so illegally (and via paying criminal gangs). None of them are asylum seekers either, they have all come from France. There's zero point talking about counterfactuals, and you have no idea if there would have more or less alyssum seekers in 2024 had Brexit had nor hadn't happened. The vote happened 8 years ago. I didn't even mention Brexit.
I'm a big fan of this podcast but I found this one difficult to listen to. It's a bit rich listening to someone who spun the Iraq war moralising about these riots.
Exactly no one talks about his lies
I’m not an islamaphobic person but in recent times 9/11, 7/7, London Bridge, Westminster Bridge, Glasgow Airport, Manchester Arena, Lee Rigby, David Ames and Southport have all made me a bit nervous .. Please, please, please stop refering to the concerned as all being far right especially if they just want to have a conversation about immigration. …..
What about all the crimes caused by white people. Are you concerned about DV and other crimes too?
Respectfully, you have cited 9 incidents over a 20 year time span. I'm not sure what insight we can take away from that.
@@leejordan9804 My point is that severe attacks on innocent people keep happening and using the broad brush description of far right to label those that want to see an end to that or even just have a conversation about it seems lazy.
OK let's talk.
Why don't you fear Catholics because of the IRA?
Why don't you fear all protestants because of the UVF?
Why do you associate immigrt8on with Muslims with individual terrorist events carried out by individuals?
Do you know anything about the militant fundamental Christians trying to take control of the nuclear button?
Why don't you go to a Mosque and knock on the door amd ask to speak to then about your concerns?
Why don't you have a conversation with those you are worried about instead of hiding away and reinforcing your fears?
What about the terrible murders committed by whites though?
He comes across as America’s dad. He has passed progressive legislation as Governor and he excites the base! That’s the big thing. The advantage is coming from the fact he’s excited people. He’s plain speaking, he started calling the republicans weird, and it’s caught on….he’s an excellent pick. She’s done really well. Come on Rory.
Thank you for this calm reasoned discussion - a relief to listen to...
Bit too laid back for me tho', now if either of them had a boarded up window in the background...
I wish I had a Rory Stewart bot embedded in my WhatsApp to make sense of acronyms and other phrases or titles.
in polite society people dont want burkas to become normalised... they want men to be respectful, trusting, and women wouldn't need them to keep themselves from being beaten and accused when they get home...stoning is forbidden in uk!
So is rape and attacking women or sexually harassing women in the street.
So what's your point? You don't like something?
Sounds like a you problem.
@@vetinaris1297 sounds like men are the problem maybe we should have law that husbands will get whipped iff wives wear burkas…
@@vetinaris1297 so men are the problem ps your not in Egypt or Italy the English are more respectful
The country is on fire, people are scared to leave their homes and they choose to lead with the American VP pick. Bad editorial choice? Wonky priorities? Out of touch?
The country is not on fire.
Some people are scared.
A lot are ready to fight back now as the police can't manage it.
Not gonna spend our lives living in fear of idiots. They don't have any power over us and certainly can't dictate what we talk about.
The riots are a symptom of despairing and disintegrating communities who have been further stressed by mass immigration. Riots are completely the wrong way of expressing the frustration and were triggered by an almost completely unrelated event but ignoring the valid underlying concerns of communities like these is pointless, counter-productive and will only make things worse. Calling it Islamophobia is pathetic, considering the wealth of experience and intelligence of you guys
Well said
Well it's a shame they chose the terrible murders of three little girls by a UK born boy. I know what the riots are really about and if they have any use at all it is in identifying, charging and imprisoning thugs. I've no interest in their concerns.
You are aware we've just had a general election where those despairing and disintegrating communites could progress change through votes?
"Almost completely unrelated" he says about the protests over immigration caused by a Rwandan immigrant.
@@twelvecatsinatrenchcoat He was born in Cardiff.
Now I never really comment or dive into this kind of stuff so good reason but as a white uk man I certainly feel uncomfortable going to certain towns or cities in the uk , particularly around young Asian men in gangs more so than most.
Also I have seen how our high streets have degraded gone are the butchers, hardware shops and fish mongers and are full of polish mini markets and Turkish barbers which a lot of there shops in small English towns are just no go zones for English people. I’m a complete liberal when it’s comes to race and creed and equality , there is no reason why you should ever be judged on skin colour etc but I am getting very concerned that our ‘English’ way or life and towns are turning into segregated melting pots of division.
Let’s not out this down to Islamophobia or the idiot thugs on all sides, English people have genuine concerns for their identity and way of living.
Both parties have miss handled the whole issue of immigration.
The simplistic approach of housing immigrants and/or asylum applicants in communities without providing those communities with any extra support is short sighted.
The recent protests in Ireland over the asylum seekers fleeing to there over the Rwanda scheme is the same syndrome.
Starmer should do something positive. Labour has always argued the cause of crime should be addressed - these riots should not be written off as simply due to right wing thugs.
Starmer said he'd reduce immigration levels but failed to quantify it...that needs to happen publicly
Migrants come to WORK ... but the UK does not let them do it or only illegally ... BTW the migrants come from the UK (former) colonies ... they know you, it's why they come, you know them since you colonized them ... Why are you surprised they come ??? You forced them to be with you, now they are ... what are you complaining about ??? The UK is responsible of those people coming ... This is what those rioters and Reform UK voters don't recognize and NO ONE tell them the truth that they complain about what THEIR country has triggered by colonizing ...
Starmer has said they are going to work with various agencies in the UK and Europe to go after people smugglers.
I think this is the way to go. But it isn't going to be a quick process.
They need more money for dem programs!
@@riddlingrymer yes that may deal with some asylum seeking immigration but not the much bigger legal immigration. Anyone know if Starmer has put a figure in how much Labour plan to reduce that to?
I enjoy the show guys but you’re both out of touch on this.
Rory might have been able to back pack around Afghan smoking brown but he wouldn’t last 5 minutes on a northern housing estate these days .
If you go to any pub or place of work ( outside the public sector ) you’ll hear the same views and concerns .
Screaming Far right at anyone with these concerns isn’t going to make it go away
The working class are looking for someone to speak up and have a sensible debate about the obscene amount of migration this country has suffered in the last 20 years
Facts. And the first item on the show is US presidential election. Ivory tower jobs for life.
Racists say what?
Only in your backward thinking stagnant wonky circles
If it’s a concern for them why is it they have to riot, cause damage, burn down libraries, steal from shops and all while doing this take beer to the riot. If it is a concern this isn’t the way to show your concerned. A lot of people were concerned about climate change and they held a peaceful protest can these people not do the same? Maybe there just to stupid?
@@amjid300 If what he said fits your definition of "racist" then so be it. Who cares?
I used to use Twitter but I stay well away from it nowadays since Elon Musk allowed it to become as offensive as Truth Social. The only thing that might change it is a boycott imo.
It was already a toxic cesspit when I left 18 months ago. Best thing I ever did.
Ya, tell us you hate free speech without telling us.🤷🏻
@@davidlynch9049 Nah just hate gammons abusing free speech laws to be racist online.
@@davidlynch9049 i love free speech but X is 99% dumb speech. let it exist but it's terrible trash content
@@davidlynch9049 no problem at all with free speech. And I'm free to not listen or participate.
I find Mr Campbell and Mr Stewart's podcast informative. I also find Mr Murray's thoughts interesting to hear on occasion. It is frankly dystopian for Alastair to agitate for Douglas Murray's arrest. Particularly as he's essentially a market competitor in terms of viewers. That is dodgy. Here's a thought: instead of trying to get him arrested by the police why not have Douglas Murray on your podcast instead? As a basic principle in this country we should have the right to open political discussion without trying to poke the police into locking our opponents up.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism
I find it really difficult to discuss immigration as it is a proper minefield.
This issue feels like it has been bubbling up for a couple of years and now people have latched onto the murders to basically light the fuse.
I think a bigger discussion needs to be had around immigration. I’d personally like to see more transparency from the government around immigration as a whole as I don’t understand it myself fully.
The rioters should be locked up though as attacking police and damaging property is just not on. There are ways of raising your point and this is not one of them.
Perhaps it’s not about immigration at all. Perhaps, it’s about regime change.
@@JohnCox-ut3cv Then that is terrorism.
Ah yes let's discuss the rioters concerns regarding immigration.
Hang on, you Brexited to get rid of immigration of Europeans, and instead took in non EU immigration, the very sort the rioters were against lol
Honestly the riots have been terrible . Can anyone please tell me why Starmer isn’t coming down on Muslim gangs who are openly walking around with machetes etc . This isn’t a political point , genuine question .
These two won’t ever mention that .
It’s one way traffic with all of the press and political elite.
There’s plenty of areas white kids wouldn’t dare venture in this country too
When Muslim shop owners were defending their businesses and areas with knives during the 2011 riots people like you were cheering them on. I don't think Starmer prosecuted them then either.
I'd speculate they're a big part of his voter base, some of whom who he lost to the Gaza candidates, and who he doesn't want to cause further rift with by reprimanding.
@@beatonthedonis how do you mean people like me ?
@@ashley-o5e I’m a Labour voter myself , and I can honestly see your point here .
"'poor guy', Keir Starmer?" Dealing with crises is the PM's job.
Thank you. This is my first experience of your show. Immediately prior to watching it, I streamed Redacted's show on the current crisis here. It was somewhat alarming and, unusually, I felt obliged to comment and included a link to this episode of The Rest is Politics. I wish you two would challenge them to a discussion. It is essential that, alongside everything else, we all ensure that we do not promote misinformation. Again, thank you. The best commentary on this difficult issue I have seen in a long time.
If there is not two tier policing why was I threatened with arrest for shouting Hamas are terrorist to a group singing from The River to the Sea!
because that slogan has nothing to do with supporting Hamas, hence your actions would have been seen as inflammatory and aggressive?
He pronounces his name as Walls. Both he and Harris seem positive, intelligent and smiley. This seems to be a good team. Back in the day the USA seemed to have a forward-looking and positive outlook. Then it seemed to move backwards, become very divided and wholly negative with Trump. I hope the Harris/Walz team wins. The alternative is too ghastly to think about.
The double standard on labelling similar incidents of civil unrest is alarming, it makes the problem worse when the poorest people in the country feel like they’ll always be put last, always be ignored and always be blamed, I thought this new government would be more in touch with that section of society but like Rory and Alistair, too many of them have London middle upper class syndrome where they sympathise for those it’s popular to be sympathetic to
Exactly. It's like the white working classes are just bigots. There's no conceivable way they could have legitimate grievances. There were riots in Rotherham, why might that town be hostile towards Islam? Shh no, we mustn't go there..
Ok, you are not saying that some poor people are being used against other poor people ... those riots is a fight among poor people ...
Two Tier Kier. Two Tier Rory. Two Tier Allistar.
So being poor is now an excuse to loot during unrest? The double standard here is that when people rioted in other cases it was almost universally decried as disorder and negative, while if it's a far right unrest it's decried as just a symptom of people being poor. The lack of self awareness from such propaganda is stunning.
It is absurd to try and pull the victim card when the situation we’re talking about are riots. Not protests, not civil unrest, but rioting. Especially when they are being inflamed by misinformation. Help cannot be done when demands are underwritten by aggression.
Stop trying to silence criticism of Islam. To an extent, such attempts are why we're in this mess. Mainstream, contemporary Islam is deeply problematic, and it should not be shielded from criticism.
It's not criticism of Islam that is the issue, but hiding racial intent..
@@dallysinghson5569It IS the issue. “Islamophobia” was a term invented by Islamists & utilized along with violence to suppress legitimate criticism of their practices & political agenda.
@@bentucker2301 Just because all religions have been misused by some to justify atrocities doesn't mean we should shy away from criticising specific issues within any religion, including Islam. Criticism is crucial for progress and reform. If certain practices or interpretations within a religion lead to harm or oppression, it’s important to address these directly. We should be able to discuss and critique these issues constructively, rather than avoiding the conversation altogether. So, no, you give it a rest.
@@dallysinghson5569 I'm an Arab ex-Muslim, and I've been attacked by white people for criticising Islam, being accused of racism. When they realise I'm not white, they then claim I'm brainwashed or that I’m some sort of Uncle Tom. And don’t get me wrong, you have a point: some people criticise Islam with racist intent. However, there are just as many, if not more, 'anti-racist'-but in reality, racist-people who insist you must see the world through their lens: white people as evil, non-whites, Muslims etc. as victims. The racists and ‘non-racist’ racists can all… f o. (Not you, obvs.) We should be able to criticise Islam. There are pockets of Islam that are compassionate and decent, but mainstream Islam is dreadful. It should be called out just as we have called out
Christianity over the centuries. Islam ain’t going to reform or lose its grip if it’s shielded from the light.
@@SavannahMandem oh I'm sorry that was a knee jerk reaction. I agree and have deleted my comment.
Excellent as always, gentlemen. You (collectively) are a breath of fresh air in the media and have the gift of being able to say things as they are. BTW I still think Rorys is the best PM Britain never had. *YET* 🙂
33 percent of babies born had parents who weren't born in the country? Wow. That's a lot
Musk is a living nobody!
lol you are clueless
@@RonanTOC As he is, your idol is a racist poor mans Branson, colonial!
@@RonanTOC No you are Ronan!!
He's many things, but not a nobody.
@@elias.knotman Saviour of humanity then. pathetic.
1961 population of London was 97.7% white british, in 2021 53.8%. These aren't crazy theories, but facts that both AC and Rory choose to ignore. Our own capital has changed beyond recognition
It’s perception, you see it as an issue, they (and I) don’t.
82% of the population identify as white…
@@col.hertford9855 Shouldn't the English have been asked about such a change ,in a referendum ?
@@bsastarfire250 Immigration literally keeps this country running. These immigrants have made this country what it is. Why do you have a problem with non-white British people?
@@bsastarfire250 Which English? White English only or all of us?
Harris had a great working relationship with former Labor Secretary Marty Walsh, another blue-collar political unicorn…and they continue to be friends. He now runs the National Hockey League Players’ Association. Previously he was mayor of Boston.
The Democratic Party in the US is full of down-ballot effective politicians who DIDN’T attend Columbia University and Yale Law School and yet the party is endlessly pegged as being “elitist”…whatever that means in 2024.
Walz represents an exciting pivot and the guy really comes across well in his speaking engagements.
A “top cop” and a “HS school teacher” with 12 years of experience as a “workhorse” in the House of Representatives. I like this ticket!
Advantage easy to work with. Compassionate on pro people which after Trump we need. For the first time he makes us feel good.
Thank you Alistair for a refreshing balanced analysis of how we got to this point. We need to hear more voices challenging the endless social media and you tube narrative about failure of multiculturalism .
Why is it that our GDP makes us the 6th richest country in the world??? but our GDP per capita... puts us at 27th, below Malta?
Simple maths. Every person added to the population who is economically active will add to total GDP. But if they are producing less than the average per person they will at the same time reduce the GDP per head. Governments are often more focussed on total GDP; individuals are obviously focused on their own economic performance.
But I get your point about the difference between total performance versus GNDP per head.
China is a good example. Its population means they are second in total GDP but in GDP per head will be well down the list.
Productivity, which is what you're ultimately talking about, has collapsed in many countries that take in large amounts of immigrants (Canada, Australia, etc).
Unfortunately, Government spending on infrastructure doesn't keep pace, resulting in diminished living standards for everyone.
My point exactly @anthonyjames7534
UK now 37th in 2023 $54100.
I have been guilty in the past of not challenging islamophobic comments becase it was easier for me to let it go. In the future I will try harder to offer an alternative narrative.
Buddhists vs muslims in srilanka and Myanmar Jews vs muslims in isreal Christains vs muslims in Europe middle east and Africa,Hindus vs muslims in India,Yajidis vs muslims in Iraq.......!!!!!!!
Can you really defend quran?
It's not as if Christians have never instigated a holy war.
@@drg598 The Qur'an does not promote violence but rather advocates for peace, justice, and compassion. Verses often cited as promoting violence are generally related to self-defense or specific historical events, and the Qur'an repeatedly emphasizes the sanctity of life, urging believers to seek peaceful resolutions and to treat others with kindness and fairness. The text consistently prioritizes mercy and reconciliation over conflict. Where it is used to justify violence, it is misinterpreted. In such instances, it is justification for other nefarious motives.
Furthermore, it's not as if Christians have never started a holy war!
@@peterknight7880 get a l.i.f.e
I would love someone who holds contrary views to go on the podcast. Douglas Murray, Matt Goodwin, Konstantin Kisin as some suggestions. I really dont think Alistair and Rory understand the other side of the argument.
They’d run rings around this lot
With every podcast they become increasingly more uniformly wokey / metropolitan. It's disappointing
Walz is a fighter, a straight talker, he's brave and will appeal enourmously to the working class.
The backgrounds these two usually have are so funny in how indicative of their class difference they are. Alastair is usually somewhere with the slightly gaudy decor favoured by a certain older type of middle and upper middle class person. Rory’s aesthetics are usually always fitting of the aristocratic class
This is 3000 fascists spread around the UK, plus some violent football thug hangers on and the curious. The fascists can barely win a council seat. They are not representative of anyone and they couldn't even agree what year to turn the clock back to. But they can cause a lot of trouble and damage. Give them long sentences, longer than the non violent JustStopOil who got 5 years unjustly, for blocking roads.
Probably more Islamic extremists in the country. I see reports that police are arresting Islamic rioters today.. but will channels like this debate it in the same way? Will court appearances and strong sentences be handed out in the same way? Will criminals be treated equally regardless of their race / religion? Reform gained more votes that Lib Dems so people are sending a clear message democratically that they are not happy with the way the country is being run.
Absolutely superb summation.
Isnt the Ukraine war evidence that UK is run by fascists and nazis???
You forgot they all cry in the dock like scared little children. They aren't men. Men don't try and burn children alive
Please read the JSO case sentencing remarks to understand why they got as long as they did. They complicated their own initial offence by behaviour during their trial.
" Farage is Tommy Robinson in a cravat " 🤣 Love it! Great podcast.
Sincere apologies for bringing this up. Given the current national situation affecting us, it was disappointing that the podcast (one I listen to regularly), started with a discussion on the political mechanics in the US. Understandably this is important,but it would have been more sensitive perhaps if our current national situation with race riots would have been at the centre stage, especially for your viewers that are people of colour like me and dont / can’t normally think about living in the USA. More worryingly and immediately for us, there is the anxiety about how safe one feels - across both sides of the fence.
Probably part g
This is why politics is a sht show
Two middle class…people
With no idea how the other side lives
It's not the middle class, its the upper middle class and ironically predominantly the "educated" left (they genuinely believe they are the party of the common man, it would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic).
Their lack of awareness is embarrassing and in large part literally the cause of this animosity.
I'm not impressed with the sentencing here. You get 5 years for sitting in a road if you're protesting about oil but only 30 months for punching a policeman and arson and another only gets 20 months for throwing rocks at policemen.
Ah shaddup
I’m not impressed by what may amount to Kangaroo Courts fast tracking people without due process.
Please read the sentencing remarks made by the judge on the JSO case. They made their initial crime a LOT worse by subsequent behaviour in and around their trial
It feels like Walz checkmates a lot of complaints about dems and progressives. He's "blue collar" and he's very likable.
Spoken like a true democrat.
Seriously. He doesn't need to appeal to us. He needs to appeal to independents and centre right.
Listen to what they are saying in their podcasts.
I’ve disliked Alasdair Campbell for years. However, I’ve just changed my mind after he said ’is every person who cares about immigration being better controlled - all racists - no they are not’. In this whole messy debate that’s the only time I’ve heard sense and the sooner governments accept that statement the better.
If you wanted a controlled immigration you should have controlled your colonial frenzy ... the migrants come from YOUR (former) colonies, today YOUR neo-colonies ... What are you complaining about ??? They come because of YOU not of them ....
Very disappoint analysis and conclusions. Really just burying your head in the sand stuff and will not help in any way.
I am wondering what are your thoughts on the fact the week previously the new Chancellor pretty much blamed asylum seekers for a massive cost which means potentially are taxes are going up, is this not an important part of the narrative
The complete inability by people to see the Asylum system is not being used how it was meant to be and is broken.. Until people tackle this hard to deal with issue I think it will forever give the far right a wound to pick at
Ffs, explain to me now exactly how the asylum system is being misused? I’m assuming you’ve bought into the idea that hundreds of thousands of immigrants come here ‘to take our jobs and houses’ and very few are actually fleeing war and persecution?
@@Marvin-dg8vjno, he’s not brave to say it. There’s nothing brave about it. Bravery are the thousands of police officers defending our country from violent thugs and being injured in the process. Bravery are the men and women who make perilous journeys across continents to give their families a chance at survival. Smashing up a Greggs to steal some sausage roles (as good as they are) and setting fire to Holiday Inns while talking a lot of bollocks online isn’t bravery, sorry.
@@Marvin-dg8vjno he’s not. Bravery is policing violent unrest with your body on the line. Bravery is risking everything to find a better home for your family. Bravery is not sitting behind a computer making up falsehoods about poor people who don’t look like you.
@@louisdonington who said anything negative about individual asylum seekers ?.
But your argument is we can take unlimited numbers with the resources we have in this country. People cannot afford to put a roof over their heads as it is. We have a million people dependent on food banks . Why not ask them what they think about taking half a million asylum seekers?
It is your attitude which will lead to fascism in this country
@@Marvin-dg8vj excuse me?
Don’t blame me for fascism, I’ll keep fighting fascism wherever it rears it’s ugly head. Playing into these ideas and not challenging them is what’s allowing fascism to grow, so no, I won’t do that.
Gotta agree with Alisdair, what did the Tories expect from creating the 'hostile environment'?
Good newspaper headlines.
That's all they ever expected. They never thought beyond that.
Divide and rule.
In UK, rioters need to feel the full force of the law. However, the newly elected Labour government needs to listen to the concerns of not well off working people and govern to improve not well off working people's lives and create a future for ordinary people in the UK.
Rory and Alastair had the opportunity to hold Clegg to account about what Facebook/Meta has been doing as a platform to assist division and hate but failed to do so as dog don’t eat dog. Why Alastair and Rory thought that ‘this had all gone away’ shows how out of touch they both are .
I’m very disappointed that people believed , instead of waiting for the facts to come out! Rioting is not the way to, the cost of the damage to property and the injuries to the police involved is a disgrace ! We are all bleating on about the cost of living crisis , who will pay for the damage and the sick pay for the injured officers ?
Don't worry about the cost - that's what insurance is for. What you can't easily fix is the fear that people will have faced because of the violence. Many people are a-holes and just want any excuse to fight and wreck things.
The London-Centric policies, in the search for a Sylvan idyll, deindustrialised the rest of the country; mining gone; PF power stations, Refineries gone, Chemical plants gone. London doubles down, becomes a city-state in all but name and outsources the results of their poor choices to towns already dilapidated and broken. A spark was all it took. A nasty, misjudged spark but nevertheless the match was lit. Just the other day an MP on R4 was talking about rejuvenating high streets, for God's sake; High streets have been in decline since supermarkets became the shopping experience and on-line business has killed it in Norwegian Blue style; they are not returning. Gov is still not listening. Rory and Alastair will retreat to their Elite towers. I could write a book.
We need politicians like Yanis, not these two toffs who haven't got a clue why people are so pissed off after 50 yeara of being ignored by politicians. 19:27
"I could write a book" no you couldn't. I dont even think you can write. In fact i think you are a piece of cheese
The death of the UK high street has not (although many maintain otherwise) been caused by online shopping or changes in shopping habits by consumers. Given the choice, most people still prefer the actual bricks and mortar shopping experience. There was nothing inevitable about it. Mendacious insurance companies (see Legal & General) have bought up freeholds and extorted hideous rents under draconian lease terms which has forced closures of businesses up and down the country.
Excellent response
I listen to these two just to remind myself of what the problem is in this country. It’s guys like these who, alongside other things, believe in giving prisoners the vote.
Riots are racist and xenophobic attacks not protests. Systematic scapegoating of "the other" who are blamed for all government and other failures has fired up latent racism and bigotry.
Absolutely 100%
I'm sick of hearing them being labeled at protests. They're riots. It's criminality. This isn't like the mass protests against the invasion of Iraq. It's gangs of tattooed thickos angry at their own shit lives blaming people who came over here with nothing and made something of themselves
What about the London bombings of 2005, London Bridge attacks, Manchester Arena Bombing, Killing of a Soldier in our streets, Glasgow airport attacks, so many attacks in France Belgium and Germany. Do you not think this has anything to do with the ill feeling?
Sounds just like blm and the palestinain protests
@@Mr-ye1vuThose were horrendous attacks. If you blame an entire race or religion for the acts of a few that is the definition of racism.