Omniscience Paradox Debunked
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 лис 2018
- Join us at: www.inspiringphilosophy.org
To help support this ministry click here: www.patreon.com/inspiringphil...
Discord: / discord
This video debunks a pretty bad objection to theism, the omniscience paradox.
Sources:
The Guide for the Perplexed - Moses Maimonides
City of God - St. Augustine
Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview - JP Moreland, William Lane Craig
The Coherence of Theism - Richard Swinburne
The Non-existence of God - Nicholas Everitt
Every two weeks we're blessed with InspiringPhriday
lol. comforting lies.
You've got a special talent for explaining the concepts I've been reading about for years in a way that no one else I know has. Keep up the good work!!
Did god know who would go to hell before he created them? If so, why would a loving god choose to create them?
@@glegely8377 I pose this question quite often. If God is omnipotent and omniscient, then by definition, he must have planned literally everything, even our thoughts and actions, and also whether we go to Hell or not. But it often seems impossible to explain why this is to theists, although I've had success with it a few times.
@@Kanzu999 God knows all the paths we can take in life. It does not necessarily mean we lack free will.
@@SA1656tw He doesn't just know what paths we *can* take, but he knows what paths we *will* take even before we are born. Otherwise he wouldn't be omniscient. God created us, and since he is omnipotent, he can create us in any way possible. Since he is also omniscient, he knows what any of his actions and creations will result in. Whatever God does, he knows all future events that will come from that action even before he takes it. It's impossible for God to do anything without already having decided what the future would be like.
When God created our world, he already knew everything that would happen as a result of how he created the world. He can only pick and choose. Thus if God is actually omnipotent and omniscient, literally everything would be a part of God's plan, even our thoughts and actions and whether we will burn in Hell or not.
@@SA1656tw god knew everything that would happen when he created the universe.
In other words: God doesn't have to experience sin or be sinful to know what its like to sin.
An oxymoronic sentence...
@@samppakoivula9977 How so? Please elaborate. As an illustration, do you have to experience a high from cocaine to know that abusing cocaine is harmful?
@@angeliquaserenity5009 Yeah, well the problem is that we are talking about God not people, so bad comparison. The only way this would make sense is that God knows sin through our experience, that when we die, whatever we experienced here, becomes God's experience. However that would mean God doesn't know everything a priori (before experience), but needs sometimes knowledge a posteriori (after experience), thus questioning God as all-knowing. The only other explanation is that God experienced and knows sin through Jesus. However, there is still the same problem as in the first scenario and also the problem that in the time of Jesus there wasn't for example modern tech, i.e. there are new ways to sin today. So the problem is how can God knows sin, as he should as all-knowing, if God has not experienced itself or if there hasn't been info or parents who warned for example about the dangers of drugs or tinder-cheating?
@@angeliquaserenity5009 So in short: As all-knowing God should know sin even if has not experienced it, but on the other hand can not understand how hard it could be to resist sin. It is whole another being and living as human and decide not to try to drugs after having enough knowledge about dangers of drugs. So in many ways God is a special case - like maybe more akin to someone who has grown and lived in a primitive tribe and never heard of drugs and sin, yet somehow finds a way to community where there is many possibilities to sin. So how can you know you are sinning when you don't even know you are sinning and yet you should as all-knowing being?
@@samppakoivula9977 No, he knows how hard it is to resist sin without having to experience it. You assume that the knowledge of the struggle to resist sin is only based on God having to experience the struggle. In short, you are limiting the knowledge of God to needing experience. So limiting God to human logic.
Wow.. you jumped into something i never knew people actually debate on.. nice. Im gonna sub you.
Same this guy feeds me knowledge like crazy
If God knows everything he knows what you are going to do before you do it. Therefore there is no free will because your actions have to conform to his knowledge.
@@joelfry4982 um... we have free will
@@joelfry4982 he knows because he don't have to wait the next days like we do. GOD is Beyond time and space and yes free will we got. To choose to be good or bad. GOD Almighty don't control us.
@@joelfry4982 It's almost like you didn't watch the video
The funny think is. . . God doesnt just know your past, present, and future. . .
He knows every possible past, present, and future you could have had, as well as the one you are currantly living in.
He knows every possible decision you could have made, and every possible future outcomes that could have resulted in those possible decisions.
He also knows this for every human being, as well as every possible event, from a meteor falling onto a planet, to the beat of a butterflies wing, that could have occured, and every possible future outcome form every possible event that could have tooken place.
He knows this for every possible world as well.
And so much more!
Yet what I just described still cannot fully begin to grasp the infinite knowledge of God.
Yeah my brother had a very descriptive dream about a war between heaven and hell and it made me question a lot of things on my faith a long time ago. I don't mind sharing
@@kruxue866
Sure.
AMEN
If God can know all possible events and still know what you are going to do, that doesn't mean you have any free will at all. God is not peering into the future and seeing what you are going to do. If god can know what you could do and still allow the freedom of choosing one path, then that makes him only aware of possible futures, not specific future. Even if God can know the future, the future is still a thing, whether you have knowledge of it or not. Going forward in time and giving what happened in the future was only a perception of what happened, or only saying a tree fell in the woods. if you go into the future without knowledge of what happens and find out later that that is what would have happened anyway, then you aren't free. A tree that falls in the woods with no one around to hear/see it still falls. Your reality of a fallen tree was not formed until you saw it on the ground, but that doesn't mean the situation was constructed in a way to fool you for some odd reason. Whatever you know the future to be, then you know it will happen in that way, whether your reality has formed that future yet or not.
@@_a.z my brothers dream not mine. It doesn't change the fact we have out of body experiences, why kids ages 8-10 see glowing eyed entities, or why September 2018 literally formed the birth of christ in terms of stars in corealation to the time in bible. It might just be a dream from my brother but it was a very descriptive one that had a very impactfull meaning behind it ( god ultimately forgiving the one man who caused every sin and suffering today) it was very emotional and my brother had no reason to dream about such a thing. The supernatural is something science cannot explain easily , but it's very easy for you to downgrade it in every way you feel. I'm not religious but that dream means a lot to me even now. Your thoughts don't disprove god in anyway. You'd know that if you kept watching this youtuber and stopped half assing your way assuming your always right
Everyone's forgetting omnipotence.... once you throw that in, free will becomes (more) untenable.
Almost like
3:00 3:38 4:17
I'll be honest, it's unlikely for humans to Really Understand what Omniscience Truly means in terms of Free Will.
God so loved the World, that He Gave His only begotten Son...
this is nonsense, how would anyone know if someone else is omniscient? all god's attribute are pure invention - has anyone alive met god? and how did they test?
I don't get how there's a problem with the statement "God knows what we will freely choose to do". Even if He knows what our choices are, they're still that. OUR choices that WE make.
It’s because he created the universe and everything in it while being omniscient meaning he knows exactly what outcome will come from his actions. If god created the universe he did so knowing exactly what would happen in said universe. That is the contradiction that free will creates. Either we have free will and god has no control over our lives or we don’t and god predestined everything.
@@noahfredrickson6479 Both of those are incorrect. From what I got from the video, our present actions determine what God had already knew before anything was even created. It's not that God is "forcefully" or "predestined" our very actions, that would go against the doctrine of free will. Instead, I think a better explanation would be God's foreknowledge is contingent on the very actions we do. So it's not a matter of a false dilemma you set up, God can be both sovereign and omniscient, while giving us true, human free will
there isn't a problem cos god does not exist. as always the apologist is here to reassure you god isn't a silly and incoherent idea.
@@HarryNicNicholas real original mate, it's not like apologists for decades and longer have been presenting logical arguments to present the idea of God to be rational, and in turn prove His existence. If all you've got is the typical atheist "it's nonsense to believe in a god" response, then you do your community a huge disservice.
Different possibilities cannot exist if all outcomes are already determined by a "creator". There can't be a single possibility that exempts his knowledge, because he technically knew everything even before creating anything
Well yeah. God knows the possibilities of things, just like how we can? If we had all the math behind things moving and their possibilities, we do not cause it, we just know it.
But this isn’t really omniscience though. Foreknowledge and knowing all possibilities aren’t the same. He doesn’t know the possibilities, he knows exactly what WILL happen. Very different things imo
“What happens determines what God knows” that’s genius, your insight is great along with your clear and concise
presentation. Thanks man, your vids always get me thinking.
So he doesn’t know what actions were going to make? He’s not omniscient. If god doesn’t know what choices I’m going to make tommorow he’s not omniscient.
@@jesushad12gayfriendwhoallb50 Did you not watch the video?
@@jesushad12gayfriendwhoallb50
You obviously misunderstood. He is arguing that God has foreknowledge of all things already, and this foreknowledge is based on what humans freely choose to do. I disagree with that model, believing that God sovereignly ordains all things, but nevertheless you are misinterpreting the comment.
“Remember the former things long past,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is no one like Me,
Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,
Saying, ‘My purpose will be established,
And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’;
- Isaiah 46:9-10
Also, your username reveals that you’re likely 12 or 13, and you blindly hate God. Your whole personality is based on your hatred for a being you claim doesn’t exist. You love sin and self, and you hate God. Repent, flee from the wrath to come by taking refuge in Jesus.
@@jesushad12gayfriendwhoallb50 Think of it like this:
Person A is inside a room. Person B is inside another room. Person A can see Person B through a large monitor. The large monitor can show Person A what Person B is doing _before_ he does it. In other words, the monitor has the ability to send information through time so that Person A is able to see things before they actually happen. Now replace Person A with God and Person B with me. If I do something, God knows that I will do that thing but only because me doing it is known to Him before I actually do it.
@@justanotherbaptistjew5659 I have a question in front of me. And i will choose one. God knows what i will choose. Let's choose one. I chose b instead of a, c, d, e, f. Well, God already knew that. Then why was there other options instead of just a? In fact, there is not even a question. Because which one i will chose was predetermined.
How does god being outside of space and time while being omniscient, mean that he sees our actions in a chronological format? Going by such a format, he would know the beginning, ending, and everything in between, simultaneously. But whatever the case, our existence and actions could never predate his existence and omniscience.
God doesn't need prediction to know the future, God just sees it
it's make believe. god is imaginary so he can do whatever william lane craig says he can do and these suckers swallow it.
@@Pietrosavr god isn't real mate.
@@HarryNicNicholas You will be surprised after you die.
People think that God can't be omniscient and give us free will because they assume that God can only know the future like we can know the future, with prediction, which requires some degree of determinism. However, God is outside of time and doesn't need to predict the future based on the past, God sees all as present.
Good Job. I cannot wait until you release your next three videos.
The problem is not with moral perfection and omniscience, but with omnipotence and omniscience. Since God created everything the way he wanted, he already knew at the time of creation what was going to happen and therefore he determined it by putting (for example) atom A in place B instead of atom C in place B. In a way, he created the conditions by which we would decide and act the way we did and therefore, decided how everything was going to play out in advance. In other words, he anticipated your decisions and decided to create the universe in X manner and not in a Y manner were you would've decided differently (if we are able to say that God can create all possible universes). Another theory could be that God had no choice in creating the universe the way he did because it is the most "perfect" one with free will, but then, he is not omnipotent nor free...
Watch his omnipotence video..
Except that God counted in our free will as well.
I would recommend you check out the divine hiddenness response video from this channel
@@blakejohnson1264 Are you recommending it to me?
@@davethesid8960 I’m recommending it to everyone
IP, I love your work. It’s helped me to understand my faith. Your arguments seem thought through and logical compared with counter claims. However, something that has been bothering me is the existence of Hell. Not the thought that God created it, or he sent people to it, but the fact that secularists and theologians alike claim it doesn’t exist, and is a man made fear to encourage religious belief. I’ve seen references to the four words used for Hell in the Bible, Sheol, Tartaraus, Gehenna and Hades, referring to different things but not eternal damnation. I’m curious if there’s an explanation for this, not having studied Hebrew or Greek myself. Could you explain Hell? Great video btw.
My next video will be on hell. It will be live on Friday, but is currently live for all patreon supporters: www.patreon.com/inspiringphilosophy
@@InspiringPhilosophy Fun Fact, if you are omniscient in real life, then you would die because your brain can't handle the chemical changes and memories that are being stored.
In short, the ancient Israelites believed Sheol was an underworld where ALL the souls of the dead went to "rest in peace," or go into a state of suspended animation...as long as one was properly buried. If not, the soul would disappear into non-existence. Gehenna, was a trash dump outside of Jerusalem where not only garbage was burned, but human corpses! For the Jews who still believed it was really important to get a proper burial, having one's body "sent to Gehenna" meant you would "lose your soul," in the sense of it going out of existence. If a person "lost both body and soul" in the trash fires of the Gehenna Dump, many Jews believed God could not resurrect them from the dead for there would be nothing left of them for God to raise up! Hades, or the realm of Hades, the pagan god, the brother of Zeus, is where all the dead went according to Greek Mythology, but instead of "sleeping," they were conscious. Part of the realm of Hades was a place of punishment, like Tartarus; another part was a place of reward--the Elysian Fields. Most of the Jews, (except for the Sadducees) were repulsed by what the myth of Hades' realm, but by the end of the 1st Century CE, when most Christians were Greco-Roman converts, the Jewish idea of a restored, eternal, nation of Israel, what they called the Kingdom of God, following a resurrection of the dead, was replaced by the false idea that the "kingdom of God" was the same thing as the Elysian Fields, and those whom the Jews believed would have been excluded from citizenship in the coming earthly Kingdom of God, at least for a while, due to their unrighteousness, were mistaken by the later pagan converts to Christianity as going to the punitive part of Hade's realm for not converting. Rick Lannoye, author of www.amazon.com/Hell-No-Certain-There-Place/dp/1477401938
@@ricklannoye4374 Seems off to me. God could raise somone up either way, and no earthly fire can destroy the soul. Thats my view though.
I’m so looking forward to the upcoming videos :)
Q1) Can an omniscient being simultaneously know, to arbitrary precision, the position and momentum of an electron? If yes, how can quantum mechanics (which depends deeply on the uncertainty principle) still work? If no, then why call the being omniscient?
Q2) Can an omniscient being distinguish one electron from another? If yes, again how can quantum mechanics work? And if no, how can it be omniscient?
I am way late to reply to this, but I find the questions interesting so I'll give it a go.
1) The thing about the uncertainty principle is that it says more than just what we are able to observe, but about the data which actually exists behind the observation. It is not that an electron has a particular position and momentum and we're just bound to never know it, but that the information which describes both of these properties exactly literally does not exist. The superposition of the electron is itself the state in which it exists, and God, being Omniscient, knows everything about that superposition, and ultimately how it will collapse when provoked.
2) With a "particular electron" here meaning a local 4D structure of disturbance in the electromagnetic quantum field, yeah God knows where all the worldlines are and how they interact with each other. Any time an electron interacts with a positron and they form a photon and that photon splits into another electron/positron pair, that new electron is not the "same" electron as the first one. In fact to call an electron the same electron even if no splitting goes on is rather dubious. It is akin to pointing to a particular letter in a text after you backspace it and rewrite it and saying that it is the same letter. Similarly to the previous case, if there is no actual information present, then there is nothing to be known.
Though this case is a little different because the 4D structure of the electron's worldline does provide something of a distinction between them, though this becomes a matter akin to the Ship of Theseus. Sensibly, if one were to look at a diagram that perfectly describes the course of the electron worldlines (which are all superpositions in their own right) one could discern them on the basis of their structure, even if there is no actual identity present. Another analogy to that is if two galaxies collide and merge, at what point do they become one? The problem is that we expect there to be a point. The idea of a galaxy is not something fundamental to the universe, nor do they have identity in the most literal sense, they are an emergent structure, and they are fluid in nature. It is simply wrong to think that we must be able to discern one galaxy from another down to an exact moment.
To summarize all of that, Omniscience isn't expected to know information which doesn't actually exist.
After rewatching this I realized there's one argument not addressed in the video, an argument concerning the incompleteness theorem. This would basically be that either God's knowledge is complete or substantiated but it cannot be both. So to say God knows all true propositions, the one he can't know is whether he's omniscient because that proposition would have to be justified by something outside God's knowledge. What would be your response to this argument?
Apologists just say whatever is convenient in the moment. That is their answer to everything.
You dont need to look externally for it at all: "is there something I dont know? No. Therefore I am omniscient"
Isn't God the ground for all necessary truths?
How do you only have 70K subs, man? This is great stuff..
I know right? Angry, idiot internet modern atheists are popular while the good stuff and rational channels are unpopular. This is very unjust.
@@karl5722 Yeah man. IP should do more appearances on other ppls YT channels both atheists and theists. I like watching him engage in discussions.
@Fortress Aurora Your 'profile' is communist and yet theist agnostic. Hmmm interesting. Anyway It is an appeal based on lack of father figures as it has been proven by David Wood and bad childhoods. And yes these critisism become dogmatic and even cancerous
@Fortress Aurora I made this comment because Communism has always been very atheistic from the atheist philosopher Karl Marx to Communist Russia and China. I didn't mean to say they are anti-theist (Which is true) but meant that they are atheistic.
Anyway, Communist Russia did not see the struggle of teh Orthodox Church and a matter of history, the orthodox was very much cooperating with Tsardom. But then came the communist revolution which made the orthodox church struggle and persuted by anti-theists such as Stalin and lenin. I amd not saying that Tsardom was a good country, it was bad. But I am saying that the communist regime of the 20th century was Worse as many minorities including the orthodox were persecuted and racism as well secterianism were implemented.
About the TOTAL myth of the "socialist God", I would recommend you to see history. First Capitalism came and was instuted by the protestant ethic. There are many books and articles online that shows the correlation. Secondly Karl marx had in his book for his marxist utopia, the abolition of religion and socialism is stealing and for this utopia to be achieved, violence was to be applied which were both against the teaching of Christ. Thirdly the bible is strictly against socialism and other forms of it. For example in Timothy, there were people who did NOT work and yet gained money which is not capitalism, a meritocracy (menaing the sytem is depended on merit) also in Timothy people were had work so that to eat. Socialism/... requires stealing from the rich and giving to the poor which didn't earn the money as well for monarchies who did not do anything to earn. You mentioned the book of acts, well in this book, voluntary actions was being shared between the apostles. This is also capitalism which doesn't give power to those exploit.
His content is garbage
God bless you sir. Seriously how do you study all these things? it's simply awesome.
I read a lot.
And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
My thoughts on that is sorta like that movie Next with Nicholas Cage, just more so on a omnipotent level. Seeing all decisions, every domino falling from those decisions... mind blowing of Elohim's ways.
That actually makes a lot of sense. This is how I understood it but you explained it rlly well thanks!
I loved that you bought up Molinism. Would you do a video defending Molinism from the old counterfactuals argument?
Just a quick question, if God could not possibly actualize a perfect world in which there is no evil, does this mean he is not omnipotent?
No it would be like asking God to make a square circle
God doesn't want everyone to be perfect robots or actual beings in their own right.
Without a choice to do evil in the 1st place. Good isn't really true in creation.
God perceived that having freedom to choose is the best outcome.
Therefore evil can exist.
@@johnrockwell5834 evil being able to exist does not mean evil must exist, and as far as I can tell, a world in which no man commits evil, even with the choice to, is not logically impossible
@@DManCAWMaster but why would it be like that? Why is a world with no evil logically impossible? As far as I can tell, to create a perfect world isn't like trying to create a square circle, but just a perfect circle
@@BigGman19 God wants free creatures which allows for the possibility of evil and it could just be the case this is the best possible world given man's free choice
Lovely video.
Truth is, the greatest virtue God has given to us is Love. His love. But love cannot exist without free will. And with free will comes the calamitous possibility where we all make horrible decisions despite the love.
Love is the greatest pain we have. If you don't get what i nean, then you are naive and unblemished by the ravages of life.
@@dgagamingaesir Love doesn't hurt. Losing it does.
Once you allow gods foreknowledg in a way that describes god as being outside of time seeing all events along a supposed timeline then it can only be that god himself is causing those actions through an apparent freewill of a person. It means god is causally responsible for bringing out those actions that he foresees. You can never ever predict all human actions all of the time unless you have a hand in those actions.No two ways about it.
And if god is responsible in that way human freewill is only an illusion.
Great explanation! God bless you, friend
What intrigues me is not omniscience. Rather the existence of possible worlds as “possible worlds”. Those possibilities are configurations or settings which are actually existent in a metaphysical sense. In whatever and whichever way, one of those will be actualized no matter what. It’s like an algorithm or a program, a higher kind of reality, a set up or blueprint kind of reality that is superb and transcendent than any god. For example, the possibility that someone will commit a particular evil or a particular good, such possibility as an existent “set up” is also eternal in the same exact status as “reality” itself, god is in no need as an “explanation” for their existence. They likewise eternally exist. In the same status as “free will”, there’s no way it could be created by any god, let alone given or designed. God as the one who breathes fire in reality is a superfluous idea, that alone is also a piece of configuration. There’s a lot of fatal issues regarding a personal god or an anthropomorphic god.
Once again I believe in the theory that I believe doesn't limit God at all which in this case is the perceptualist model of Omniscience.
Let's consider for a moment a being whose sole talent was being Omniscient, knowing all true propositions and believing no false propositions.
For simplicities sake, we'll establish a timeline for this Omniscient being called timeline A, where the beginning is when the Omniscient being first came to existence, and the end is when the Omniscient being ends his existence. I will call him Tom, because I like the name Tom.
Within Timeline A, Tom finds himself in a room with an Apple on a table. The proposition at hand is "Tom eats the apple". Either Tom takes the time to eat the apple, making the proposition true, or Tom does not make an attempt to eat the apple, making the proposition false.
We end up with two Sub timelines:
Timeline B: Every single scenario where Tom eats the apple
Timeline C: Every single scenario where Tom does not eat the apple. Therefore making the Proposition "Tom does not eat the apple" true.
Now Tom, being Omniscient, knows which sub-timeline he is in. After all, I could make the proposition: "Tom is in Timeline B", and that would be either true or false. However, Tom would not have the power to switch from Timeline B to Timeline C or vise versa. Because if he did, that would mean he believed in a false proposition, which is not possible under this definition of Omniscience.
What we end up with is a system of absolutes, leading to a deterministic worldview. You can scale this up to omnipotent levels of power, and the results would still be the same, as every action can be boiled down to a true or false proposition. All you do is make Timeline A start with Tom's first action and end with Tom's last action. There can't be indeterminism, because all true propositions are known to the Omniscient being., and as a result, Absolute Free Will cannot exist.
In essence, if an Omniscient being exists, then Free will cannot exist, as everything about the Omniscient 's characteristics, actions and desires can be reduced to True or False Propositions, one which the Omniscient being must know in order to be Omniscient.
I still cannot get away from this conclusion no matter what I watch trying to say that free will and omniscience can coexist.
People say that God doesn't actually physically make you to choose what you do.
But for his knowledge to be true you have to do exactly what he knows.
Even if you did what you did in the future and he witnessed it and then went into the past which is the present.
The outcome would still have to be along what God knows and you will still make the exact same choice following the time line back into the future.
So can this really be considered a choice if you cannot choose otherwise?
It's a confusing situation.
Are you going to make a “Did Jesus Exist” series with things like intro, historical evidence, answering objections, etc any time soon?
@Saint Dragon thats new testament reliability
Quick question for you (InspiringPhilosophy) do you agree with Dr. James Whites style of apologetics? And if you could share your thoughts on him. Thank you
tommy I might have some gaps that someone else can fill, but as far as I understand his epistemology/apologetic method is basically this:
1. He tries to presup his way into establishing the existence of God.
2. He argues for the inspiration/inerrancy of Scripture because that's how Jesus saw it.
3. The main subject where he tries to argue for Christianity specifically is the textual reliability of the Bible (or the NT in particular). This may be because presup (plus Jesus' attitude towards the Bible) can lead him to belief in the Bible as long as we actually have what the inspired writers wrote.
4. Since he debates against a bunch of groups who all take the Bible to be authoritative (or, in Islam's case, have a commitment to either taking some of the Bible to be authoritative or saying it was corrupted), he just relies on exegesis of the Bible (plus examination of the sources of the groups he argues against) to build his case.
I'm very much averse to Sye's brand of presup, but I'm not too familiar with other brands of presup, and haven't listened to Dr. White talk about it much- so I'll leave that alone for now.
The main problem Dr. White seems to have, though, is the gap between 1 and 2. Given God's existence, what case does he make for Jesus specifically? I haven't really seen him defend the resurrection on historical grounds, or anything like that. Does he just defer to others' defense of the resurrection on historical grounds? Does he try to presup his way to Christianity in particular somehow? I'm not sure.
I never even knew this was an argument. Is this what atheism resorts to now?
Yes, this is what atheism resorts to now.
They will believe anything but the obvious.
This is not as new as you think it is. It goes waaaay back.
@@whatwecalllife7034 It may not be new, but I haven't heard anyone use it. It's a very bad objection nonetheless.
@@philotheism7011 I guess so, if it's not fundamental to your belief in this particular god that is.
Wait but god does know what it feels like to not be omniscient...
Because he came in the form of a human (Jesus Christ) he may not
Have sinned but he does know what it’s like to be us.. to be human.
So what are atheists talking about?
This might mean that all possible worlds are just as equivalent as the coming actual world until the action is done which sets this branch of possible reality in motion.
As a Theist, I see a problem with god's omni-attributes with regards to the exodus story, where the stragglers are attacked by Amalek: why wouldn't god alert Moses of the ambush? It's as If, when doing something extraordinary like leading with a pillar cloud/fire, his power is taxed. Also, some daughters of a tribe approach Moses with a complaint, and god tells Moses they are right: why didn't he proactively make the stipulation: Perhaps god has a very casual side?
I have been satisfied with molinism. You have eased this unbearlquestion that has persists in my mind: how can God's omniscience reconcile with Human free will?
Beautifully done, I'm a visual learner and this was perfect. Keep up the good work and may God bless you.
Great video, covering much debated today.
personally, you should have just started with the Infinity War example, but the whole thing with that is its dependent on the choices on the avengers after thanos gets all the stones. God may actualize a world where minimal evil can be done, but it's up to the human being with free will to also make sure that minimal evil is done, it's as much god's responsibility as it is humans'. If our world is one where the lowest amount of evil can be done, then in that sense our world is determined. Our world may be free to do whatever within the bounds of our limitations, but the fact that God actualized the world in a way for so little evil to happen means we ourselves can't actualize as much evil as possible without that limit of evil already being there. If we can bring up as much evil as possible and there seems to be no limit to the evil, then we are in a timeline where God knows we are some kind of failed universe because either as much evil as we cause is the best scenario or clearly God should have done a better job in minimizing the evil in the world he actualizes. In Avengers: IW, Doctor Strange is not around to guide the avengers in the right direction to beat Thanos, so absolutely nothing is stopping the avengers from taking steps to fail. With Strange not in the picture, then the number of good scenarios to beat thanos actually goes up, not down, because no one could know who it was who would get snapped out of existence.
God, unlike Strange, is constantly around, and actually has a guiding hand in the way the universe pans out. But, like in IW, nothing is stopping humans to actualize as much evil as possible. If we do as much evil as we can, and there is still worse evil to be done, then we have no free will in that regard.
The title is Omniscience Paradox Debunked but it fails to do that without having to assign God arbitrary attributes simply to arrive at the pre-determined conclusion. These attributes probably also goes against the arguments for the Omnipotent quality in which the argument is that All Powerful still has its limits and God cannot do that which is impossible unless you are arbituary stating that God can do anything which prevents falsification of a biblical statement because of special pleading.
You bite yourself @4:00, there is the error in your reasoning.
If you have a time machine and you saw the next day and returned back.
Now if the events are taking place the same way then where is the "freedom" in "free will".
You are implying that each day would play out just as it did, and it couldn't be otherwise.
You yourself gave a reasoning in support of "fatalism", great job man I applaud you XD
Yeah just because he says it with determination it doesn't make his argument right. There can't be free will with an omniscient god.
That was an analogy, as explained God is outside of time.
@@sdlkfjhasiodf1477 Why can't there be free will with an omniscient God?
@@sdlkfjhasiodf1477 Unless, His Omniscience is Dynamic 😉
@Inspiringphilosophy what is your scriptural basis for middle knowledge?
i agree with this analysis.the few things i have researched in agreement with this video is our problem stems from the fact that we are bound by the limitations of time we think in terms of past present and future so God"knowing all things" for us is a function of time in that we perceive as if God sees into the future but there is no past present or future for God he is outside of time everything for him is simultaneous. this is a simplified explantion but the point is thats why you see the bible has already concluded how all things will end its because with God everything is NOW if from his perspective you can even call it that because NOW is still an expression of time which is something God is outside of. God omniscience comes from him being outside time. So he already knows your whole life because your life is a series of events which he sees now. its difficult to wrap your brain around it but i think thats kinda it. its like to God what ever decisions you will make to God you already made them. this does not violate freewill because just because God knows the decisions you have already made it doesent mean you were fated to make those decisions. this i think leads to me to believe if this is so then God sees not only the decisions you have made but all the potential scenarios of the other decisions you could make because to him its all a string of events. he doesent then make you make a choice he does his best to help YOU make the right choice. but despite all this reasoning im still confused lol. its not a conclusion i have made just tryna better understand God. the best id say is the first step to understand God is to accept you can never fully understand him anymore than you can fully understand another mere mortal person who exists within the limitations of time space and matter
What is your position on the following proposition, taken from the Summa Theologiae
"It is not because things happen that God knows them, but because God knows them that things happen."
Well, I don't really hold to that view. I think I would need more context.
@@InspiringPhilosophy I'm not an expert, but maybe S. Thomas Aquinas was simply saying that everything happens because God made it happen (in this case, the primary cause acts directly ) or allowed it to happen (in this case, the primary cause acts through secondary causes ). In other words, it isn't wrong to say that everything happens because God knows it's going to happen (because nothing happens that isn't at least allowed by God, and if you make something happen or allow something to happen, it's obvious that you are sure it's going to happen; it's also obvious that, if you are omnipotent and don't allow something to happen, you are sure that's not going to happen ). This view does not deny human free will (which is a secondary cause ) nor God's predestination.
@@InspiringPhilosophy I'm not an expert, but maybe S. Thomas Aquinas was simply saying that everything happens because God made it happen (in this case, the primary cause acts directly ) or allowed it to happen (in this case, the primary cause acts through secondary causes ). In other words, everything happens because God knows it's going to happen (because nothing happens that isn't at least allowed by God ). This view does not deny human free will (which is a secondary cause ) nor God's predestination.
well since ip embraces molinism and sta calvinism obviously he will not agree and he is wrong. thats what happens when scriptuire does not guide your philosophy...
@@lalumierehuguenote Are you a calvinist? I'm a Catholic, and I personally hold to the thomistic view, even thought I can accept molinism as a legitimate opinion.
You probably hold to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. Personally, as a Catholic, I accept the material sufficiency of Scripture, which says that everything necessary for salvation is, at least implicitly, contained in Scripture. However, Church's Tradition and Magisterium are necessary for a correct interpretation of Scripture, because Apostolic Succession grants that we have today an understanding of Scripture similar to the Apostles' and their disciples' one (even thought there was a developement of doctrine through time, as heretics started to question doctrines - such as the Trinity, the nature of Jesus, the divine maternity of Mary, ecc. - and it became necessary to define precisely some of them ).
So excited for future videos!!! Especially on hell and the problem of evil. I was also literally about to comment whether God knew we would rebel before He created us, then you proceeded to answer that. Really covering all your bases
I don’t know if you’ll see this, but I wanted to see if you had an answer to this issue I’ve been having regarding the attribute of omniscience in God. How can God be omniscient when we have the concept of unknown unknowns? These are things that we don’t know that we don’t know? How can God possibly know whether or not he has unknown unknowns when, by definition, these things are unknown? It seems to me that, because of the very concept, there is at least one thing God cannot know and that is whether he has unknown unknowns. Wouldn’t this make omniscience impossible?
I’m curious to see if you have any response to that because, currently, I’m really struggling to figure this out.
Thanks.
The possibility that an all-powerful being (or a mere computer programmer) exists means omniscience cannot.
An all-powerful being could create another being which mistakenly thinks itself omniscient, couldn't it? Then how would _any_ entity know for certain that possibility were not the reality? It could not.
The argument works equally well without an omniscient being, just substituting a programmer who would be 'all powerful' within their own simulation.
The possibility that an all-powerful being (or a mere computer programmer) exists means omniscience cannot.
An all-powerful being could create another being which mistakenly thinks itself omniscient, couldn't it? Then how would _any_ entity know for certain that possibility were not the reality? It could not.
The argument works equally well without an omniscient being, just substituting a programmer who would be 'all powerful' within their own simulation.
Matt Smith a omniscient being that doesn’t know it doesn’t know something is logically impossible and so doesn’t/cannot exist in the first place. Because by definition it’s not all knowing. Something logically impossible cannot exist. Eg square circle.
So did u completely answer the question?
A trillion likes for this video because I struggled with the idea of free will, because I know that God has clearly foretold the future through prophecy.
So what about the prophecies that don’t come to pass ?
@@lauromartinez8948 which ones?
@@brandondunn9007 For example, God said to Jonah “In 40 days Niniveh will be overthrown”
40 days later, Niniveh was still there.
What happened ?
@@lauromartinez8948 that was if they didn’t repent. They did repent. But also when they reverted back to their old ways Nineveh and indeed the entire Assyrian regime was overthrown.
@@brandondunn9007 The prophecy doesn’t say “If you don’t repent” it just says They will be destroyed in 40 days.
So God didn’t do what He clearly said He was going to do.
I love the addition of Molinism. Great having researched it years ago and seeing it in this video told in a understandable way. Good work.
Hey Ip you should also remember the story of David in 1 Samuel where David went to the people of Keliah and David heard Saul knew where he was and was after him. So David decides to grab an ephod and asks God whether the men of keliah will deliver him to Saul so as the story goes God said they will if he stays. So what does David do, he leaves. So everything thing that is known by God does not necessitate predestination. He just knows all things real and possible and chooses to make things predestined like when humankind sin, he had a plan in the back of his wisdom to make a perfect world
Why is God portrayed as a powerless observer? Did he not create me? And did he not know while creating me that I'd be atheist?
Why didn't he, in His omnipotence, only create people he knew would believe in him?
So... God doesn't know everything?
PS: I haven't heard anybody say foreknowledge *causes* events to happen. If I have forknowledge that a train will be late, I didn't cause it to be late, but at the same time it's impossible for it not to be late since perfect foreknowledge means this event is a constant in time💭. Hope I worded that correctly.
That's why if sci fi ideas such as time is a loop also negates free will. Even if time is a bunch of streams, every stream has fixed events and every version of you in that stream can't escape the fate recorded in that stream.
If foreknowledge of the future is possible or a definite future already exists then that means the future is fixed.
Foreknowledge doesn't cause an event, no. But creating a universe knowing that an event would be caused as a result of that act of creation does.
If God didn't have foreknowledge that 9/11 would happen if he created this universe in this specific way, then it wouldn't be his fault. But he did know that, before he created this specific universe in this specific way, 9/11 would happen, and he couldn't be wrong about that. We don't blame the boulder for crushing the man at the bottom if it is pushed down a hill for acting according the pre-set laws of physics, we blame the person that pushed it knowing that it would crush the man.
that may be true, but it wound't negate free will or serve as a way to blame god, yeah, may he did know that things were going to happen that way, but he did so cause' people made it happens that way, and they used their free will to do it.
@@jonathacirilo5745 yes it does negate free will god created the universe knowing the outcome.
So many errors due to not using the bible and what God has said Himself concerning His revealed and hidden decree. thumbs down.
Leatherwood Outdoors www.newadvent.org/fathers/3506.htm , name one Church Father who subscribed to your heresy.
Hello. So, what I want to do with this message is to simply show what the Gospel is.
I am not trying to force my belief down people's throats.
It's your choice whether you want to accept it.
So, a question: Do you think you are a good person?
If so, have you ever stolen anything, lied, looked lustfully, watched adult material? All of those are sins and anyone who sinned is not good(on God´s standard).
You, I and most( most because babies don't sin, and maybe specifically mentally Ill people) purely human beings have violated God's moral law.
Since God is just, He can not let sin go just like that. So is there any hope? Yes, there is! Out of love and mercy, God became a human being, Jesus Christ. Jesus lived a
sinless life and finally died on the cross to bear the punishment we deserve, we deserve to be punished because we have sinned.
The reason why blood must be spilled for remission of sins is because the life of the flesh is in the blood, in the Old Testament Jews sacrificed animals for sins but the
sacrifice of animals were enough for remission of some sins, not all. It wasn't infinite, unlike Jesus's. Jesus is the Lamb of God, the ultimate sacrifice for sins which is
enough for all sins that have been done, are done and will be done. The Old Testament sacrifice of animals, the spilled blood of those animals could cleanse people from some
sins but not ALL, unlike Jesus's. He was buried and rose again. His resurrection proved that His death was enough to pay our penalty, the penalty for our sins.Jesus paid our
penalty and in order to accept the free gift of salvation from God, we must trust in Jesus's spilled Blood, His finished work on the Cross for our salvation. And then your
sins will be forgiven because of what Christ did, you will be saved.
See: Romans 3:10, Romans 3:23, Romans 5:12, Romans 6:23, Romans 5:8-9, Romans 10:9-10, Ephesians 2:8-9, John 3:16, Leviticus 17:11, Ephesians 1:7, Colossians 1:20,
1 Corinthians 15:1-4. ua-cam.com/video/lbb4xwYj19g/v-deo.html
Evidence for God´s existence: Kalam cosmological argument, Contigency argument, Modal ontological argument. Regarding Christianity, check out InspiringPhilosophy´s videos
about the Ressurection of Jesus and the reliability of the New Testament. Together, they show good evidence that Christianity is true.sd
Hi Michael, I know it's an old video. But what about God saying he has declared the end from the beginning.
I did agree with the explanation that God knows already the free choice you will make. Also adhering to the fact that we cannot choose to save ourselves (not completely free) but that we are a slave to sin until we are regenerated. Has your view altered at all since this video?
What exactly is omniscience, is it:
A) having absolute knowledge (ie. perceptual omniscience).
B) just having the power to have absolute knowledge alone, not actually having absolute knowledge (ie. conceptual omniscience).
Answer A is in line with the etymology and definition of omniscience.
Answer B, also known as inherent omniscience, is a later attenpt at redefining, as a solution for the problem that actual omniscience and the existence of free will are mutually exclusive.
Thank you for your video pointing this out!
0:40 Why use the theistic definition. The simplest answer is usually the best one, instead of using the simple definition you reached for your specific definition to bolster the BS.
1:54 Two seperate types of omniscience means there are still SOME THINGS that God doesn't know. If we discard to perceptualist model when defining omniscience then we discard aspects of the human perspective as "things that God knows" hence God doesn't actually know EVERYTHING.
3:03 It literally never crossed my mind that god CAUSED evil by knowing about before it happened. It only occurred to me that before it happened, he knew it would. God doesn't need to be the cause of evil for it to be f**ked that he already knew what was going to happen to us long before he created us. There's a huge flaw here: babies who are brutally raped and murdered. Are you trying to say it was their own actions that led to God's knowledge of what would end up happening to them?????
@@snackler6102 the problem with that statement that god having omniscience while also affirming freewill and he knows what will happened but it didn't causes him the action of individuals,it raises question whether if god sadistic to watch to suffer his creations or not
@@snackler6102 and also it was contradictory imo that god having knowledge on future of the individual action and knows outcome but he wasn't the one were cause of were illogical imo because he created the humanity therefore he is still the one who were cause of it
@@snackler6102 the problem is that he(god) created humans and knowing what will happened on the future but didn't the cause of our the action or never determined somewhat still raising question on being omniscience and remember he is creator of humanity therefore it has big question on being "omniscient god but he wasn't the one who cause "statement
@@snackler6102 This comment was left by me quite a few months ago and I've since lost interest in the subject, I'll state my opinion one last time since you went through the trouble of typing up such a beautiful reply.
In my opinion, If God already knows what's going to happen to us we do not have free will. Either God knows what the outcome of my life will be before I am born and therefore nothing I do will change my fate or God doesn't know what will happen to me because I haven't made decisions about my life yet and am free to choose whatever I want to do. If God knows my fate already that means it is already sealed.
@@snackler6102 Can you please simplify whatever you said. If you can make it very concise (making one short paragraph) I'd appreciate that. I'd love to understand.
So God knows all the possible outcomes? So do I when I flip a coin, it's either heads or tails. That doesn't mean I know the outcome of the coin toss beforehand.
I don’t think we can describe that @4:45 “God inside of all (Linear) time” because this causes God to be in all event spaces at once, those events having occurred in our reality and not occurring.
Breaking away from linear time is the global parametric time that Hilbert space presents and “assigns” a local arrow to a frame.
If we abandon this linear topology vector space for fractal topology, this global parameter takes on a different event space ontology in that all events are being experienced by God and we are inside of that lucid experience as an agenty subject according to the panentheist model.
Panentheism can wrongly appear as a nested duality. It is not in that "God as object" has a mental state which is the creative subjective state (being our Universe). That universe is our objective state which is a subjective state as well according to special relativity.
|{Object{object}} |=1
This panentheistic view can be modeled as God being a UTM (Universal Turing Machine) producing a universe functionally in a Goedel machine-like architecture.
The Goedel model better syncs to Molinism because the functional Turing-Mind is testing pathways and the ultimate proposition then melts to a best proposition and does not require maximal good, only best good.
Is the Goedel-machine UTM model omniscient?
If the truth of propositions is the standard, no.
Completeness requires that in order to non-halt one must shift the query to an illogical logic.
The standard of truth propositions must be abandoned in that they require God to be logical rather than understanding.
This is crucial.
God, as the panentheistic UTM and Goedel-like via the fractal mechanical information architecture, would hyper-compute as a Super-turing model.
Don’t limit God with the linear and logical way to truth.
That’s not real truth.
One must be wrong and right…that right-ness sets up the pathway for the whole.
Fractal logic provides that it sees all, questions all, receives all right and wrong answers without linearity.
Thus the Von Neumann-like Great Observer must be discarded due to its tracing transformation through a chain of cause and effect.
The if/then of logic is now when/when.
This simultaneous transformation places time's global parameter only limiting what is possible between observers. We can call this timing that provides "time" (air quotes due to its A-theroetical arrow).
Does this mean god has limits? Because i just google omniscience and it said - knowing everything. If god knows everything none of us have free will which basically means we are destined to go to hell or heaven depending on what god wants not what we choose because god already knows what we’re going to choose before we even decide to do so
"God might not be able to" - wait, wasn't he also omnipotent?
he talks about this in his omnipotent part of the video. He says that the definition of omnipotence has nothing to do with "an ability scale" it's just the state or.... nature of being above all that is and all that will be.
Brother I follow Islam and I am really a big fan of your videos. Keep up the good work brother.
I'm glad to hear IP's channel reaches out to different kinds of theists :)
Brom Ponie bro, the person has good explanations.
Pecu Alex yeah bro he is a gem . Which religion you follow though??
I reccomend David Woods videos to u
Does God have to break the rules of free will in order for evil to not win?
You don’t need to experience something to know how it works.
I’ve never had my balls ripped off but I know it hurts like hell.
What I really like about these Omni videos is that it demonstrates what we can discover about God. It is often assumed and vocalized by opponents to theism that even if we could rationally prove a God exists that it would be meaningless because we couldn't actually know anything about that God. That has always presented itself as assuming to much. These videos prove that we can learn a lot about God through these rational debates. Over time, we have received an interesting picture of him.
Speculation and pondering doesn't equal learning lol.
@@JwalinBhatt Your right. Speculation and pondering doesn't equal learning, but using logical deductive processes to arrive at a conclusion is.
@@blusheep2 the video, if you accept it to be correct which I don't for reasons I've mentioned in my other comment, at best shows that omniscience doesn't contradict with free will.
It doesn't show whether god is omniscient or not. Neither does it show whether we actually have free will or not.
@@JwalinBhatt Well no of course it doesn't. That wasn't its point. Other deductive arguments lead us to that conclusion. This paradox is addressing the defeaters of the argument that the "first cause" or "God," or the "maximally great being," is omniscient. Same for free will. There are other arguments for that.
As a side note, if there is no free will then neither one of us holds a rational point of view. We are programmed by chance or design to believe what we do. Debating anything with anybody is worthless because their responses don't come from intellectual thought but rather our genetic make up.
@@blusheep2 Ok let me ask you this, what did we actually get to know about god by this video?
You forgot that God ordains therefore he knows
Is the James Ossuary actually authentic? Got any articles i can read?
See sources here: ua-cam.com/video/qIdCRanZZyw/v-deo.html&app=desktop
Hi IP, I enjoyed your video, but I have one issue with it. If God doesn't know the outcome but knows all the possible ones, isn't that just saying He isn't omniscient? So, if I have a lottery ticket and only one of the number combinations will be correct, and I write down all the possible outcomes, am I omniscient in the realm of the lottery ticket?
Remember although God knows all the possible ones, God also knows the circumstances of what makes the action will happened
I love how you start these videos by using the most modern and charitable definitions of the traits of god and then accuse the skeptic of attacking a straw man. This is just being unfair and you know it.
If you don't use such awful definition why does it matter? The video is not directed at you then.
Write a book!
Great video! Can I ask, what church do you attend? Just wondering.
He's non-denominational, I think
One argument that I hear probably more than I should is that the Bible is just a bunch of misunderstood alien encounters. I think it would be great to see you make a video on this.
"Knowing all true propositions and believing no false propositions"
Does god know that he is not deceived ? Yes or NO
Yes = according to your video he can know that? How is that possible? If somebody deceived him he wouldn't know it.
In no way can god be sure if this proposition is really true
Exactly. God cannot know whether he is being manipulated.
There is literally no way for him to have that knowledge.
In fact everything that he knows may be a lie, and he would have no idea.
Even if it's not a lie, he cannot know that... so he is always guessing.
God is an infinite being and to say "He doesn't know" is to say He is a finite being and could lack something that's what I don't know means, I lack the knowledge. And if you're infinite you don't lack anything.
@@Sheenifier Define him however you like, there's no logical way for him to have that information. You could define him as a married bachelor if you want.
@Herr Fuchs liebt seine dauerlutscher i'm back again!
The reason why I deleted my comments was because I was so bewildered by calling my actual argument which was "if God knows all true propositions then God knows all true propositions and he knows it." Nonsense! So explain why my argument is a good argument. I know that you might retaliate with what is what is God doesn't know all true propositions or the proposition that he knows are false? This doesn't make sense because then it splits the argument in 2! I'm going to give you an example
1. If God does not know all true propositions
Then he can't know that he's being deceived so if God does not know all true propositions...
2. If God knows all true propositions we know that he's not being deceived because if God knows all true propositions then God knows all true propositions and he knows it!
And I also think that most people will retaliate by saying what is God's knowledge is inside of some bubble and he knows all knowledge that is inside this bubble and outside this bubble is more knowledge but God does not know about this knowledge this is inconsistent! God knows ALL true propositions! So he would know about the knowledge outside of this bubble!
But I want to talk to you for Real... I really don't have a bandana against atheism! I'm completely fine with people being atheist but I hate this prevailing attitude that every religious person is violence stupid and if they think about their beliefs they would change it and atheist are smart and kind and a very rational! Which this stereotype is not true! They're both smart atheists and they're both smart theists. I feel like the only reason why you believe this is to make yourself feel happy special or whatever want to study theology
(AKA studying a bunch of fairy tales and myths that delusional people believe in)
And honestly...
I know we disagree on a lot of things but really I'm not angry at you in the slightest. I just want you to understand how I feel and my solution to your problem... I wish you the best... thank you!
@@elijahd6936 Sorry I am done with you. There is no reason to further this discuss anything with you because you don't understand the topic
Eph 1:11 God works all things according to the council of His will. He doesn't look ahead to the future to see what man will do and therefore have knowledge of it. God doesn't learn. God knows what will happen, because He's the One who determined what will happen from eternity past.
"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose" (Rom. 8:28).
"According to the eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Eph 3:11).
He plans (not merely sees ahead to what will happen) and no one annuls His plans (Isa. 14:26, 27).
He declares the end from the beginning, and His purpose stands, and He fulfills His intention (Isa. 46:9,10).
He decrees (not looks ahead in time to see) the length of everyone's life *He* determines it, *He* sets the limit (Job. 14:5).
This is not "look ahead" (or look behind, because God is timeless) to see what free creatures would do (or did) language. God "works" all things, "causes" all things, "accomplishes" all things according to His *eternal* purpose, "plans" what will take place, "declares all things" according to His "purpose and intention".
I think you got hung up in the terminology. Let me refrase and paraphrase it: *God plans and makes decisions whilst having knowledge of all possible future events that have our free will factored in.*
Let's listen to the Word of God instead of our fallible human reasoning. Great comment, I hope everyone reads this
Yet God himself does not disrupt free will. if everything is absolutely determined then God would not have said I wish none should perish but that all come to repentance and be saved. so obviously God's will is that all people come to repentance and be saved but many people wont be this is a example that God does not interfere with free will.
as for he declares the end from the beginning that verse is saying that what happened in the beginning shows us what will happen in the end.
The verses I cited above clearly teach that God decrees *all* things. That includes -- as difficult as it may be for us finite creatures to grasp (see Isaiah 55:8-9) -- our "free choices". I would also mention Proverbs 21:1 "The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the LORD; he turns it wherever he will." As for 2 Peter 3:9, understand that Peter is speaking to *believers*. The verse reads as follows: "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward *you* (emphasis added), not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Paul clearly teaches in Romans 9 that God has mercy on whomever He wills and hardens whomever He wills. And that we are unable to resist God's will. And if you ask, "then why would God punish us if we're unable to resist His will?" then I would point out that you sound exactly like Paul's objector. And to that Paul answers,
"But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?" Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,"
lol I’m just here cause I wanna write an omniscient character in a book
people always want to blame someone else for the bad things that happen.
SLAM DUNK!
THE MULTIVERSE THEORY BLOWN AWAY !!!!!!
I have watched only the first 3 minutes so far, and I already think some of the objections against God's omniscience are stupid objections. Through the person of Jesus Christ, God has already Personally experienced human life. Secondly, Jesus came for the purpose of being victorious over sin; therefore, disaffirming God's omniscience on the basis of not personally experiencing sin doesn't work. If God had personally sinned, then doubters would raise the contradiction between actually sinning and being wholly victorious over sin -- doubters would say something to the effect of, "It doesn't make sense to sin in order to be victorious over sin." Some of this philosophy stuff is stupid.
well maybe you should have finished watching because the point of this video was to argue those points...
Please answer:
1. Does God create humans he knows will be fatally victimized at the age of eight months old?
2. If our actions is what leads to God's knowledge of our fate where does that leave a victimized baby ??????????
"His knowledge doesn't seal your future fate, your own choices do" That is what you SAID!
The answer is... "We just like to make up as much shyte as possible to defend or diabolical religion"
He is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. We can choose how to navigate the space of all positive states between the Beginning and the End.
If it was God who told Oedipus the prophecy while God knew infallibly that Oedipus would kill his father, could Oedipus have chosen to not kill his father?
Thank you so much. I've been waiting for this video for a long time.
What about the true proposition "This is what it's like to be a sinner"? How would God know it if God is not a sinner?
I've never murdered a person but I've seen murderers. I know why they do it, what motivates them, their reasons to become cold blooded murders, but I've never done it.
Besides sin is the disobedience of God and if God sinned it wouldn't make Him God.
If God determined I will sit on a chair, then can I not sit on a chair? Let's just say he came to me and told me that I will sit on the chair, will I then have a choice to sit on it?
So, what was the point then of god warning Adam and Eve from eating from that tree, if he already knew they would be tempted by Satan to eat from it? If he already knew the Snake was going to persuade them to eat from that tree, and that they would eventually listen and do so, then why did he punish them? Seems rather cruel, don't you think?
Tell me what shouldve the solution been
@@helloimchess How about: putting the damn tree well out of reach, like you'd do with Tide pods to that the little kids can't put their grabby hands on them - prompted or unprompted by the Snake - and try to eat them? If "god" really did not want Adam and-or Eve to eat from that tree, he shouldn't've put it gobsmack in the middle of the garden!
@@letumetnihilum1511 okay but dont you think the serpeny couldve just threw them to adam and eve
@@helloimchess a) if "god" really didn't want Adam and Eve to eat from that tree, he would've made sure it was well out of reach of them.
b) (going by your example) "god" would've known the Serptent would try to throw a fruit to them, and would've intercepted it, and then smitten the Serpent.
c) he could've just up and destroy the tree all together, since he can make a new one whenever, whereever he pleases.
d) None of that actually happened at all anyway. "god" or "gods" are only as real as people make themselves believe it.
@@letumetnihilum1511 ua-cam.com/video/cv85tvudi7Y/v-deo.htmlsi=xkz-CWhrwab_g2_X
Well, actually... You wouldn't really KNOW for sure that your daughter would sleep today at some point... Your daughter could stay up all night as some ppl do, or just have insomnia that night... You would only really know for sure if you were her or maybe it'd be possible if you were scanning her brain or something and knew that the info from it would be accurate... Even if you watch her close her eyes for an hour you still wouldn't really know...
The distinction between knowing and experiencing something though I think is a good distinction to make for your argument...
You're getting too technical with the illustration haha not trying to argue with you bc I sat on that thought too like you did with the exceptions and considerations and I'm like "Wait don't overthink it's just quick example"
Can you do a video about drugs?
Yeah I am still having problems with this, as since God knows I would die a sinner or not BEFORE I WAS EVER BORN, then I am simply acting in accordance to that which God knew I would act.
Why does omniscience have to include the future? It doesn't make sense in relation to free will. Why is it not enough to simply know all truth claims instead of knowing the future that didn't happen yet, it does not limit gods power in anyway to say God cannot tell the future anymore than saying God is not all powerful, because he cant create a rock so powerful he cannot lift it.
I’m Catholic, so I’ll say this. To know something is not to make it. In fact we believe that we are pre-destined to have free will.
But God made the universe under these conditions knowing the outcome before even forming the world. He did make it and he did know it
Hum, okay God knows all the possibilities and automatically actualises them, but if It's Omniscient, It knows what It will actualise, and if It's outside of time, It know and has always knew which possibilities would get actualized, what would play out.
"always knew" can't apply to God, He's outside of time meaning that all of what we experience as time to Him is the same moment.
@@tafazzi-on-discord Either they know either they dont
@@vmmovies8185 Yes but God knows in His "now", the one moment. We experience part of that one moment through time, a time that to Him is not something He is bound by, it's a dimension like any other.
I think a good analogy would be those old tvs with the electron beam running line by line, painting an image on the screen. God is like at the same time author and spectator of that image, but we can only see what is in the Ray, what to us seems obviously sequential actually paints a complete picture.
God lives outside of time, if you have to imaginve God of thinking or doing "one thing before the other" you have not grasped this concept
Question. If God knows every true thing, past, present, and future... Does he know every decision I will make, before, during, and after i make it?
I mean you watched the video right?
This may be true but if god knows what we will do in the future while we don't, can we change that future?
This video does not debunk omniscient characteristics assigned to God by man. Changing the direction of information would break the 3rd law of thermodynamics, I.e. changes the flow of time. Simply stating that God can view past, present and future for no reason whatsoever and then cherry picking quotes to back that up does not make it true. It would not explain why God considered the seventh day holy, what about another planet that has a different length if day? Nor would it explain why such God would like the smell of burnt offering or even interact with the higgs field giving rise to mass.
The seventh day as a holy day only makes sense when taking the literal biblical view of there only being one planet, Earth, and God's work was done once man was created on the sixth day.
This is how I've always read God saying He will harden Pharaoh's heart. As in, bringing Him up to pharaoh will result in the pharaoh taking offense at the idea that his godhood is being challenged, and his ego will prevent his heart from being open to what Moses is being sent to ask. His heart is not forcibly hardened by God but rather God simply being God hardens Pharaoh's heart through Pharaoh's own pride.
If God knows what he himself will do tomorrow, does that mean he can't choose to do anything else? After all, if he did something different then he'd have been wrong now which is impossible.
Correct, If you can't decide to do otherwise even when you have knowledge of the outcome you never had a choice and it would be determined the way it would act.
Its like, sure you have made good points, but what about the whole tree thing are we just going to ignore that
The difference is that the barometer didn’t create the weather. Horrible false equivalence.
Hey IP great video as always, I was looking forward to this one. I have been diving into dualism vs idealism lately and I have some questions on idealism if you have a moment. First, do you believe in an objective reality apart from what we observe? Meaning, is there a real world out there even when there is no observer in the world viewing it? If yes, I assume God would be the observer that collapses the universe in to reality. If God is the ultimate observer though, why do we recognize a wave function when we do not measure if God is observing it? Thanks!
The assumption that god knowing the future necesitates him determining the future is false, I think we both agree on this. However, even if the future determines god's omniscience and not the other way around, his omnicience still necesitates fatalism and destroys the notion of free will, even if he is outside of time and actualizes everything at once.
If the future determines or feeds so to speak, god's omnicience then it still means that those events already exist and have happened and are predetermined. If he actualices all of time at once it means he already determined your future as well.
We could argue that god doesn't know what decisions you will definitelly make in the future, because they haven't been made, but that he does know all possible immediate outcomes of those decisions, but that would require him to be bound by time.
The analogy of the time machine also deosn't wok for the similar reasons. There are various ways to travel in time but they are all equally paradoxical. If I am to asume that with your time machine you just jump outside of the timeline and you get to a more advanced point in the timeline, even if things weren't determined you just determined them by knowing them, since otherwise your knowledge would contradict reality. If the future determined your knowledge it means your future already existed and therefore you never had free wil to travel into the future or to change it, even if you have knowledge of what this future is, which in itself is paradoxical.
The only way I could think around this is that you already made every choice in your life and now you are just experiencing said choices after you have already made them through your free will. But that itself would be a form of fatalism since it means your life is already over and you are just experiencing, but it's already determined, by your free will maybe, but it's already done.
What makes you think an omnipotent can't give free will and be morally good?
@@EasternOrthodoxChristian don’t know what you read, but I never talked about omnipotence in this comment.
Regardless. Free will is just incompatible with logic itself there are good videos out there that explain why better than I can. Regarding morally good I never said anything about that, and omnipotent being can be morally good, it’s just that there is no such being in this universe because there is a lot of evil and gratuitous evil, which wouldn’t be the case under a morally good omnipotent being,
@@alejandrovallejo4330 define good and evil first
@@alejandrovallejo4330 no good videos, just goofy gay atheist showing that their iq is lower than a peanut
If God knows all logical possibilities, i think that’s equal and tantamount to actually perceiving and obviously experiencing it because even “conceptualizing” is still an experience. The fact that those possibilities are there that can be conceptualized, opens up a kind of reality which is far more transcendent than god and god himself only is an inert observer and watcher of those possibilities. God knows how a person would act and react in a particular scenario, but he doesn’t set your fate and course action, but how could god know how a person would act and react? Perhaps because a person was programmed and configured to act in a particular way manifested as a personality or one’s character. In one way or another, god himself acts in a particular way, shall we say in a godly fashion, why is that so? Rather than not? Why is there something rather than nothing? Why is there a god rather than no god? I think, the logical answer is, it’s just the way it is. There’s no point in inserting god as an answer in a question that the only answer is “it’s just the way it is”, and “reality is something that governs any entity, the design of an entity: how the entity would work and act, its processes and mechanisms. God can’t also escape that.
No, and that is ridiculous. Conceptualizing” is still an experiencing, like I can know you wrote this comment without experiencing through your mind. That should be obvious, kid.
InspiringPhilosophy What are you claiming then? That conceptualizing is not an experience? Knowing is an experience, knowing the truthiness of various propositions, one basically experiences it.