Want to remove a wall? Here's what it takes...
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2023
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Disclaimer: If you are attempting to remove a load bearing wall check yourself follow your local building codes, and have an engineer sign off on your plan.
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Structural engineer here. Well done. Bonus easter egg was the disassembly of the cove, and seeing how it was supported. Also, that's not post and beam construction. That is conventional stick frame construction, circa 1930, with modern platform framing (not balloon framing). Post and beam construction is what you'd see in a modern park pavilion, where the posts and beams are large-format timber with fabricated plate steel connectors. Which is not to be confused with post and timber construction, which is large format timber with mortise and tenon connectors, like you'd see in an 1820's era building.
I’m glad you said the magic words “That’s not going anywhere.” Every dad knows this statement is required, especially when securing the load in the back of a truck. XD
I love watching your videos! Very excited to watch the next one. I am planning on doing the same at my home and learning a lot!
I can’t wait to see the finalized project I I’ve had the same issue trying to figure how to work around the cove ceilings and the load bearing wall leading into this kitchen, this is a perfect video for me 😍😍. Great video. Thx
Great work. Easily enough strength and then some. Nicely done
Stay the course Michael, its looking awesome!
It's looking fantastic, Michael! Nicely done! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Great job!
Thanks Tim!
I'm new to your channel - I came here for the pretty plywood, stayed for your reno project. Most of this video reminded me of some This Old House episodes!
Assuming you're not going to add any walls, a video on "projects using leftover construction lumber" would be pretty cool.
Nice work guys
Great progress!
Love this series!!
Nice job guys, I raccombmand to pancake the end of the 2 side of the beam with couple of 2 by 4 so that it will not move from side to side in case of eathquake
Please consider not to accept better help sponsor ships. They are known for selling their patients data
Source: www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2023/03/ftc-says-online-counseling-service-betterhelp-pushed-people-handing-over-health-information-broke
They also make it extremely hard to cancel your account and will charge you for every email interaction. On top of that they are a real nail in the side of the mental health industry and are making it difficult for many practitioners to practice outside of the Better Help service through some really sleazy practices
@@Goodbye_Pepper If a company is refusing to cancel a service when asked, perform a chargeback on any subsequent charges. And even better, telling them you're going to do a chargeback if they refuse to cancel the service, which will likely also motivate them to agree to cancel the service, because companies pay penalties on chargebacks. Chargebacks are not simply a refund, because they requires time from the credit card company and so the offending company pays a penalty.
And for anyone thinking they can use chargebacks as leverage on legitimate transactions, that is probably some form of criminal fraud, and I wouldn't be surprised if a credit company would report a client to authorities if that client is trying to defraud companies (among other possible headaches financial companies can apply to people). Use the power of chargebacks responsibly and appropriately, and always first try to work with a company before moving to the option of a chargeback.
@@dosadoodleWhat is a charge back?
@@merry3perish When something is charged to a credit card, the credit card company can under certain circumstances reverse the charge, and that charge reversal is called a chargeback. Basically, it takes the charge off of the card's account and means that specific charge need not be paid off (ever). The business that charged the card illegitimately also must return the money (or more likely, have the amount deducted from their next payment) and also pay a penalty/fee.
I haven't had to use this in the last decade, but the 1-2 times I have had to use it before then to get a company to stop charging me illegitimately, I really appreciated having this option.
If you search online, you'll find a lot of guidance on when initiating a chargeback (I think it's also commonly referred to as "disputing a charge") may be appropriate or not.
Good progress, Michael. This is more work than I would attempt.
Bill
other people have mentioned it in the comments, please reconsider having better help sponsor your videos. not only do they sell their clients' personal information with little consideration for the ethical (and legal!) implications, they also don't screen their therapists well enough to the point that some suggest to queer patients that they should resort to conversion therapy.
Yeah. Married to a counselor (not with BH) and they are just... Shady. Mental health is extremely important, and BH is riding the wave of people realizing that our system is in shambles.
Awesome framers is in fact, awesome. That guy is a beast, a man worthy of those calves
Structural engineer here. I really don't like the way those tie beams were cut. Those are under tension which the brackets are not designed for.
The better solution : just put the beam above the bottom chord and pull the tie beam up with threaded rods and save the temporary wall. After breaking down the wall tighten the rods a little more to ensure it does not sag
Love your videos by the way
Yeah, I think those joists are a roof tie. Could use some holddowns screwed to the face of joist and a rod through the new beam to restore that tension capacity. Make sure the rod is drilled through the middle of the beam so you don't reduce its bending capacity.
Could you just run a strap over the top of the beam and tie it to the top of the joists? This would avoid needing to drill into the beam.
@@barneyhartman-glaser6972 there are twist straps for that purpose that might work. It depends on the tension force and what the joist hangers are rated for in uplift. You would nail it to the face of the joist, though, otherwise it will just unzip in pullout over the nail heads. If thr joists were flushe with the top of the beam there are a lot more options.
@dellgreen1 I appreciate the advice, but I’m reasonably certain those joist are not under a tensile load. It’s not a truss roof, and there are collar ties in the rafters which handle the tension. Tim from Awesome Framers was saying that the roof is framed in such a way that the ceiling joist only support the weight of the plaster. Additionally I consulted an engineer before putting thus beam in.
Well done 👏🏼
Looking great
nice work!
been waiting for this
Your “A” logo is reminding me of the Freemason’s symbol of the compass and right-angle square. I am enjoying the house renovation.
This old ALM House! Always great videos. You keep me inspired to tackle and learn new things.
Hahaha! I like that
Looking good!
Love AwesomeFramers. That's a great person to get some advice!
Glad I watched this one! Now to head back to the store for the RIGHT screws and nails for my hangers! 😅
Very cool. Nice vid.
Bravo as usual. 👍👍
Good shit bro !
Man I'm so jealous of your attic height. Mine is slightly shorter, but it makes it hard to squat. I can only comfortably crawl in it without having to hit roofing nails.
I see those knobs and tubes! Man, that IS an old house!!! I'm so glad you are being so careful!
You could have built your new beam ABOVE the ceiling joists ( DO NOT CUT the joists at all ) Tie the new beam to the doubled ceiling joists using through bolts and joist hangers if appropriate and available, then remove the support wall
Wow that palm nailer was cool
A buddy I used to do carpentry work with and I called our framing, "HBTF - Hammer Beat To Fit." Yes, you can use that.... 😂
That whole process I was saying to myself... "Please don't fall...". Just wanted and glad everything went well. I just acquired my first house, and doing some need upkeep myself. It needs more, but I have a priority list, and one step at a time.
Nicely done. In the UK we use adjustable steel pillars called 'Acros', to me they are more sturdy than 2"x4"s and they have a large range making them suitable for different projects. The roof supports were handled well, going onto the new beam.
In Germany we also use those things. They are more reliable and can handle way more weight, which is crucial in europe because we have way more steel and concrete in our walls and ceilings. You also don't "waste" wood.
@@iPain3G Friend, may I point out this is a homeowner rebuild, that lumber will be recycled into the build. No extra moneys spent on steel pillars that serve no use after rehab . . . use what you at hand . . . smart I would say
@@dannyoktim9628 you don't need to buy the steel pillars, you can rent them for a couple euros per week. In most german houses you don't have the choise. When you have a steelinforced concrete ceiling you need steel pillars to hold the weight.
Were you spraying water to cut back on dust? Great video guys.
Didn't hear you mention this at all by this point (5:25) but this is often called a pony wall.
Whenever I watch some hgtv home remodel they always “knock down load bearing walls” but never explain it further. I found this fascinating!
I assume that's for liability; it really depends on the housing construction type. You wouldn't want someone copying your "educational" show and then suing your large corporation when it was inappropriate for the construction type.
I had one of these put in and they used 3.5” screws. Not structural. Now I’m afraid my roof is gonna fall! Lol
Point loads? In the crawl space?
Lot of keyboard commando commentary. You guys are doing fine, it’s coming out great
Wow. So much to think about when retrofitting an older house and you go over it so well😊
I love that reading the title and hearing the first seconds of the video suggests that you'll need a therapist after removing a load bearing wall
That 4-by-12 length of timber is known as a "strong back." Great video!!
Strong backs go above the rafters. Which would have worked here, by the way.
Would have loved to of seen a bunch of befores.
Another brilliant episode!
Genuine question - do you not use acrow jacks (or equivalent) over in the US? Cheap as chips to buy or rent and the goto when replacing a lintel or load bearing wall. Or are they just overkill for a timber frame construction?
This isn’t timber frame construction.
Thanks! Good question. If I were leaving them up for longer than a day or two the arrow jacks would be worth it. 2x4s are cheap and easy enough to install.
I wish they used acrow jacks here. Acrows with needles would make a lot of the work on masonry openings so much easier. I don't know why they never became popular here.
I've not read other comments but I think it is worth mentioning that the ceiling joists that were cut to let in the beam form part of the roof.! They were overlapping to make one long tie to hold the bottom part of the truss to stop the walls that the roof is resting on from spreading outwards. For safety reasons they should be tied back together with metal straps through the new beam...!
LUS28 hangers with SD screws are rated for tension if installed correctly.
This series is what this old house should be. Now that show is just building mansions
Love all that know and tube wiring! I am sure that will disappear before covering.
Yeah, it’ll all be replaced. This house has never really been remodeled.
@@MichaelAlm We had our knob and tube replaced after getting our 1400 sqft Cape house in Port Gardner. Cost us $20k and we still have more to do! Made me wish I had become an electrician!
My 1924 house has it too, not looking forward to the cost having it replaced
Didn't know anything about nob and tube wiring until I sold a house and learned that the entire internal electricity was cobbled together between old knob and tube wiring along with more modern attempts with different breaker boxes. Mind blown. Found a buyer, but didn't want to fix all of that.
After I rewired my 1927 house, I kept all the old tubes. No clue what I'll do with them. Maybe a wind chime or something? I just didn't want to toss them in the trash.
Seeing all that knob and tube wiring is giving me extreme anxiety
Dude your content is such high quality very considerate with the advertising and always very thorough and entertaining, I learn something new and valuable in every video, super likeable personalities, you guys do important work and are in fact changing the lives of others for the better by saving them money. Thanks for the videos :D
You didn't really need to re-do the top plate for the post. most of the engineers I deal with prefer that the beam bear directly on its posts.
Are those ceiling joists not be under tension? I don't see how those joist hangers would help in that case?
They aren’t under tension. The collar ties at the top third of the rafters are tensile. If it was a truss roof you would have to worry about tensile loads in the joist, but my joist are compressive only. They basically only support the load of the plaster on the ceiling
Fun following along. Our house was built in '42 in the south sound and it's crazy seeing so many similarities here. We've been wanting to remove a wall that would allow our kitchen to feel a little more connected to the rest of the house and this episode is insanely helpful. Also just added @awesomeframers Always stoked on PNW creators!
The oscillating tool is impressive. The one I have doesn’t cut well at all, maybe I should try a better brand of blade
What about your structure under the floor? When you remove the weight off your lower load bearing wall, you increase load upon the rest of it, and you could have a failure due to the increased load. You probably should go under the wall there and make pilings that are dug out and filled with concrete but deeper and wider than you had originally. You can learn all about that watching Holmes on Holmes. He is very big on structural.
I'm a structural engineer, and it's all about the math. If the math allows a king post to rest where it is on a bottom plate with double joists beneath that, then it can rest where it is. If additional blocking or a new post and footing are needed, then put them in. You have to do the math.
@@Loonypapayes but I expect there was no math done, hence why I asked. Mike Holmes goes nuts about this kind of stuff.
I may have missed it but why not take the wall all the way to the brick area and open it up more?
The laundry room is back there
Just a recommendation to get yourself a decent cat's paw for demo. I used a crow bar forever till someone got me a cat's paw and wow does it ever work better!!
I totally would have vaulted the ceiling by raising the collar ties and spray foamed the underside of the roof sheathing.
You'd need to install a true ridge beam to vault that ceiling.
Those are the prettiest temporary walls I’ve ever seen….
Nob and tube wiring ?
It’s going away 👍
I understand that you’re trying to be supportive of mental health and that’s great but as someone who has used better help, it was a terrible and expensive experience, guided by poorly regulated “therapists”, I have since found great accredited therapists by conventional means, but better help was a borderline dangerous experience
I will never not be astonished about how cheaply American houses are constructed.
...you used to be able to order ones from this era in magazines. So, sure. But I expect your buildings from a similar era were probably constructed more cheaply that your homes that were older (assuming you're from Europe and were dealing with inter and then the post war period...).
That said, with population density changing rapidly, building things to last hundreds of years seems a bit overkill these days. It's not like the single family home will be practical in a lot of cities going forward. A lot will be torn down for more dense housing anyway so anything else would have been a true waste. And also, they're holding up fine by and large.
I just want to mention that if you are worried about the roof load and the supports you attached, the one on the right, they were just supported by the tips. One should support the entire length of the cut. I get you are doing it yourself but thats just.. The load on the tip would be too much.. It can break under additional load.
Today's hydration game: have a sip of water every time you hear 2 by 4, two sips every time you hear 4 by 4 and so on (pro tip: empty your bladder first).
Yes, it's a variation on the drinking game and it's much better as these days are being super hot and we tend to not drink enough water anyway.
Now if you'll excuse me I have to go to the bathroom!
@1:22 Heeeres Mikeyy
There is a lot of high pitched noise in this video as well as the last one. Can you try looking into getting rid of that?
Ya
no offense but I used to use better help and it was genuinely so expensive that I had to stop, it’s not affordable in the slightest, they charge you weekly even if you only have therapy once a month it’s fucking crazy
The wall removed didn't appear to be a load-bearing wall. The "load" would have been from the celing stringers that were acting as supports for the celing and the bottom chord for the roof truss. The bottom chords keep the roof trusses from splaying out under the roof load.
Ummm the wall spanned the length of the trusses…this is what it a load bearing wall… if a wall runs the length of a truss then it’s not load bearing….this is why open floor concept homes have big wooden beams either showing our up in the ceiling.
@adamdurham7643 The bottomed chord is only supporting the weight of the celing and the tension of the roof rafters, top chords, from pushing the top of the walls out.
A bearing wall supports either the roof directly or a wall directly above, depending on the location.
A better question is, was a structural engineer questioned on how to properly do what was done? Was a structural engineer questioned whether the wall was "load bearing" before any work was done?
Without written approval and a stamped design by a qualified structural engineer, we are just a bunch of people arguing a bs facts.
He has stated that he consulted an engineer. The fact that the joists from each side ended over that wall is a big hint that it’s load bearing.
@vernhart out of curiosity, what is your experience? I have been a union carpenter for over 25 years. Part of that time, I was responsible over multiple commercial projects totaling over 900 million in 13 years. I have consulted and worked with some of the largest engineering firms. I would love to see an engineers stamp on his details that shows exactly what he did.
That's metal lath, not chicken wire. Common building material in its day.
Why not a flow through water heater instead of a tank? Last much longer,
This is a great example of how different European and American houses are; In America EVERYTHING is two-by-four whereas in Europa most houses are build out of concrete/bricks.
Get a framing hammer.
Great work, my on critique is the lower part of your supports that went on top of the new beam should have been “bird’s mouthed” to prevent movement/slippage over time with load & unload because of the steep angle they are on. Also gives you more nailing options rather than a single thin wedge of endgrain. Beautiful workmanship though. Similar job to Scott Brown Carpentry’s channel a few months back 👍🏼
👍 für den Algorithmus
This isn’t post and beam construction. That refers more to how the walls are built rather than the fact the house is sitting on piers. In post and be construction, the support provided by the walls is provided by widely spaced posts. It’s very uncommon to see a house built after about 1870 using post and beam construction unless you live in Amish country. Without seeing the exterior walls, I would call this house stick built.
This is simply balloon framing sitting on floor joists on a pier foundation.
Post and beam foundation not framing. It’s also called post and pier.
I said it before and ill say it again. Pull you cuffs over your gloves and tape it around your writsts. its important!
That’s not what “post & beam” means and it’s obvious from the exterior walls that the home is not constructed in a post & beam fashion. You wouldn’t be able to just remove a load bearing structure from a post & beam (or timber frame) home.
This is a post and beam foundation not a post and beam timber frame. Two very different things. It’s maybe more common to call it a pier and beam but I think that term is confusion because that is usually poured concrete piers. In my case it’s concrete blocks.
Better Help is a scam
What you are calling chicken wire is actually wire lath.
Expanded metal lath
Can I just say. Level is horizontal and plumb is vertical. Small complaint. Just a pet peeve, I guess
Better know damn well what you need to do to make that furnace both heat efficient and not backdraft. If a furnace is in an attic and not very well insulated (impossible) you're gonna get moisture in your attic, and ice dams on your roof. You need a manometer, CO detector (with "as measured" and "air free" settings) and a smoke pen to be able to safely test it. Nice video though.
Are the ice dams a meaningful concern in Seattle? Huge concern in Minneapolis, yes, but in Seattle?
Yeah I don’t think deep freezes are a problem where he is, they don’t even have basements for frost footings
Seattle is extremely temperate. We rarely get below freezing, so ice damns are not a concern. The furnace will be installed by pros, and it will be done right
I don't know who your "engineer" is but that's not how a roof truss work if that's how he or she explained it, nor is it how you're really supposed to alter it if you need to cut the lower beam. The solution probably works but it's a really unconventional way of doing it and is nowhere near how I would've done it because the entire global system of the houses roof has been altered to a kind of "slanky" construction with a lot of questionable pin joints.
A roof truss works in unison with the upper beam, the trusses/struts, and the lower beam to form a really tall "beam" that can span long distances. It achieves this by an interconnected grid of members/trusses/struts. If you remove or cut one member/truss/strut of the roof truss the entire load bearing system gets altered to something completely different than the original system. The way you cut it in this video made it so the lower beam got two pin joints introduced (the connection to the big new beam) when it's designed to be a continuous beam spanning from one outer wall to the other with a support in the middle. You more or less altered it from being a roof truss to being a single A-shaped beam with an angled support (the upper beam flush to the roof supported by the angled truss/strut) and two hanging beams that supports the inner roof (the lower beam of the roof truss). If I would make a guess without doing any calculations I would guess that the new roof does not have the same load bearing capacity as the old roof truss because the new main load bearing member and connection is the angled former truss/strut which you nailed to the top of the big new beam with like four nails.
Credentials: I work as a project managing structural engineer focused on design drawings and design calculations for large and small structural systems in both steel, concrete and wood at Sweden's 4th largest engineering firm called Tyréns. We build a lot of wood in Sweden, for example my office designed "Sara Kulturhus" in Skellefteå in Sweden, which is the fourth tallest wooden house in the world.
You’d be correct if it was a truss roof, but it’s not. It’s a rafter roof.
legacyusa.com/blog/truss-roof-vs-rafters/#:~:text=A%20rafter%20is%20defined%20as,way%20to%20frame%20a%20roof.
@@MichaelAlm I stand corrected, for some reason I thought that every rafter had trusses/struts but when I look back at the video a bit more carefully only a few of them seem to have them. It does however not change my original point of it being an unconventional solution.
The lower beam needs to take horizontal loads because the rafter beam presses outwards on the outer walls when load is applied to the roof, so the lower beam works as a "tension rod" in the system which is now cut. The conventional way of supporting the lower beam, on a truss roof and a rafter roof, if you want to remove a wall is to put a beam on top of the lower beam and extend the columns up in the addict and hang the lower beam up to the new beam. That way you don't interfere with how the original structural system works and don't have to cut a "tension rod". Right now the joist hangers has to take up pulling forces which is not their primary function, they're mainly designed to take lateral forces. You only rarely use them to take up pulling forces if you don't have any choice.
But as I said before, it probably works but I don't think the load capacity of the roof is the same now as before, and the solution is very unconventional. You always want to avoid to cut things if you have other choices.
@@LouieGrind the LUS28 hangers and SD screws handle the tension. Do the math.
@@Loonypapa Simpson, the literal manufacturer of the fastener, says that they are only meant for shear loads, not tension. If you want to make a similar connection for tension you have to make a completely different type of connection. No engineering company would allow this connection to be used, mine included, because it completely disregards the manufacturors instructions which completely nullifies the waranty of the product used.
But go ahead and do whatever you want. It's on your concious, personal and economical responsibility if anything brakes.
@@LouieGrindan LUS28 hanger with SD screws is a double-shear hanger. Meaning it handles shear in two planes. Read the 2022 technical memo from Simpson.
I still don't understand why you're moving. 🤔
Not moving, this is on the same property as my shop
@@MichaelAlm Thanks for clarifying.
That's not how you build a temporary wall. Please, anyone reading, look up how literally every contractor in the world does it using just standard plumb 2x4s. Simple, fast, and way safer than this method.
I was just about to comment that
As an engineer I don't see that many problems. Just because everybody else is doing it differently doesn't make yours wrong...
Yea. His method may work but its way more work than just using 2x4s that are plumb.
There’s more than one way to skin a cat, the method you describe is the common method but the way he did it is the way lots of people up in the Northeast do it
@@adamdurham7643 I am from the north east and Micheal is from the north west. Your logic is flawed. I have never seen or even heard of this method.
Chicken wire lol
/Imagine Prompt: What if Bob Vila & Peter Sarsgaard had an awesome kid --ar 16:9 --q 2
Cove: Not "chicken wire," expanded metal ...
I've been in the business for 975 years. Right or wrong... we all call it chicken wire.
what's the dimension of the beam used? and what type of wood?
It’s not called chicken wire it’s called lath
UK when you move a load baring wall you have put in a JAVC and it cost a load of money in the UK if house is not new all you have to do is tap the wall but live homes before and after abastos if they are built just after world 2 before the 80s get someone to test it. Saw new homes built behind my home I never would I buy a new build it take unless I built it take a long time for a house to settle if my kids brought a new build read the fine print get a magnifying glass don't trust them😮😮😮
Betterhelp? More like better not take that sponsorship again
The cove???? It's coving not cove.
Better Help is a TERRIBLE SERVICE, they sell your personal and private information. Get help, but get BETTER help than you'll get from them!
Sup
Hiya just so you know Betterhelp got sued for selling customer's personal data to advertisers in a class action. shameless behaviour considering their service. You might want to rethink them aa a sponsor.
I discovered this because of comments on this video and will not be taking sponsorship from them again.