Made to Parade Podcast Episode 73 - Approved Bands Register
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- This video is in response to the document released by the Belfast County Grand Lodge who are trying to establish an approved bands register for marching bands that are engaged by the Orange lodges in Belfast.
I go through the rationale for the document as well as the process of application and the rules that bands are expected to sign up to and the consequences if they do not.
This video has my personal opinions in this and I did not seek to get the thoughts of the County Grand Lodge before I recorded. I did approach the county in July about doing an interview and they politely declined.
I don't normally do this type of video, but I felt that I had to with this subject.
Please like comment and subscribe to the channel.
Absolutely blown away by what I heard...wrote points down as you were talking.....sitting reading them now in disbelief .....just cannot get my head around many of them and I am not even in a band but love parades. Gaps between bands, 110 beats a minute, throwing the staff,kwaizi military marching....just four that astounded me.???
I'm not affected by this document, however, I don't think any band should sign this.
Representatives from every band that takes a lodge within the Belfast County, including those from outside Belfast that participate in parades should organise a meeting and take on board the views of the bands and relay these back to the County.
The idea of a one year amnesty is to me allowing the County to get the bands signed up and you don't have a get out clause then the following year.
The chances are that this document will eventually be rolled out across Northern Ireland.
I agree, I don’t think any band should sign up to this. Bands are not responsible for 100% of the issues that happen at parades, this document should acknowledge that and make provision for that, if you’re going to point the finger accept the ones pointing back at you as well. I know that the intent was to modernise the contracts between the OO & the bands, but they just haven’t done that. The old saying that “nothing about us, without us, is for us” is very applicable here for bands.
Thanks for this. Wow, very divisive. What consultation has taken place with band reps. Disciplinary measures against bands but for balance, many lodges need to be under the same scrutiny especially returning from the field.
Thanks Paul, you’re right this needs to be a partnership document, not just a dictate to bands.
East Belfast return parade at the 12th this year some lodges shouldn’t have been on the road!
I dont like it, the bands should remain independent and maybe some lodges should aim to achieve the high standards of dress code and decorum that most bands have strived to reach over the past 40 years. Maybe I'm wrong here but most people attend the parades to see the diversity in band styles and music and this must be maintained. Great work Glenn.
Thanks for watching Stu, I’m with you I don’t like it either, the OO and the bands need each other for the 12th to be the spectacle that it is, I get that technically it’s the OO’s day but it’s a mutually beneficial set up or at least it should be
@@MadetoParadeGlenn all it’s done here is created a them and us scenario, and it ain’t always bands faults, some lodge members also need to take a look at themselves, so county should be looking at some of their own members.
I agree Yvonne, the OO need to take some responsibility as well, the issues faced on parades isn’t 100% down to bands - they’ll say their rules and regulations cover that though, some acknowledgment of that in this document would have been nice though, I know some bands that have not been treated well by a lodge on the day, why on earth would you pay a compliment or acknowledge anyone if that was the case.
Hi Glenn, as always doing a great job .
Having just listened , i think the OO have created a monster that every new CGM will want to put their stamp on. Thus tightening the grip/noose around the bands necks once they get them signed up. The same happened in Scotland where every year new pressure was added by government and rolled out making it impossible for bands to maintain their own principles and values. Another major parade has banned minibuses from the parade were does it end. Most bands have different opinions, that is why they are the spectacle they are, otherwise the parades would get repetitive and boring. This is another split that will fester helping the anti-orange/protestant/unionist/loyalist agenda. The OO order is in decline everywhere this will not help.
💙🤝🧡 UNITY IS STRENGTH.
UNITE AND FIGHT
Appreciate the support, thank you. It will be interesting to see how this pans out, I have a follow up to this in the making, one potentially with a panel to talk through some of the issues and a few shorts to further clarify some thoughts and elements I’ve thought more about
Not from Belfast myself. But other areas will eventually be affected. Personally I think it's very bullish of the OO. All bands had to start somewhere, this could be detrimental as bands could hold their own celebrations. Sounds like a cousin of the parades commission. No thanks.
I had heard about this a few months back, so im glad you done an episode on it so i could get an idea of what madness has been proposed. As a bandsman, and im sure this is the case across the band scene, there is absolutely nothing in that document that will build relations. Infact id say some private lodges who have long stranding relations with bands, some who will be members of both, will be embarassed by some of the, as you rightly described it, "draconian" language used. Some of it is just absolute nonsense that could not be enforced even if bands signed up to it. I'd be very interested in what was the origin of this register and who deemed it necessary? Certainly nobody within the band scene thats for sure.
I’ve already heard that some members of private lodges are prepared to leave the institution over this and the proposed route change for the Belfast 12th, surely to god the OO must have sense of a temperature check with their membership, after there were visible protests against all that on the 12th this year. They need a reset, call a number of local meetings, talk it through sensibly, before this takes a very dark path
Keep up the great work lad
Thank you, much appreciated
@@MadetoParade👍👋
35 minutes of shaking my head in disbelief and i I don't see how any band could sign up to that document to be perfectly honest. Obviously the people who drafted that have never been in a band in their lives.
Unfortunately I think a lot of bands will so they don’t miss out on Belfast 12th - it’s definitely not a step in the right direction
If i didnt know any better id think the Alliance party have drafted this! Absolutely ridiculous and gonna cause massive issues.
If they’d just opened up the lines of communication with bands this could have been very different
Some lodge members stagger about on the return parade with the shirt hanging out yet the county GL have the cheek to question the decorum of bands 😂. And what if someone on this committee has a personal issue with a band, will they use this as a way of excluding them from the approved list.
100% if you watch the east Belfast return on the 12th this year it’s not the bands the CGL need to worry about, bands walk a hell of a lot more than their lodges do with no code of behaviour and for the majority of bands without incident - I know bands are hired but that doesn’t mean that the CGL should have all the power in the relationship
Well done
Thank you for your support, I really appreciate it
I have a feeling all these changes are not going to go well for the oo which in turn will affect the average orangeman, I feel a spilt over this is inevitable. Just on that point if their where enough bands excluded who could form another marching organisation, it might be the end of the oo in Belfast if it was attracting the young people which the oo is not. Be sad but the leadership would be at fault for being disengaged from their average man on the street who Christianity is not such a big part of it for them. Times has changed the oo hasn't at all.
I’d hate this to lead to anything like that and I don’t feel it needs to come to that. If they’d spoken to bands about this before drafting this, it could have been a very different document. I know the OO will say if we didn’t talk to all bands then they’d have faced negativity for that, some dialogue is better than none in my opinion!
There are so many loop holes and other questions that need addressed to this via bands.
Agreed, further discussions are definitely required, not going to be easy though
Sounds like a great way to drive bands and its members away from the institution. Between this register and the proposed route change within Belfast I think that Belfast Grand Lodge is completely out of touch with the grassroots.
What if no bands want to take part in this ?? Would be a long day for a lodge with no band
I believe that’s the reason why the idea of a bye ball for the first year is being floated - I think the OO know that some bands might not sign up to this
We in Scotland have had something similar for years
Here in Scotland acceptable is all down to flags, it’s caused more hassle than anything, good bands punished for flags they carry
Sounds to me that the grand lodge are coming under pressure over what bands can parade from elsewhere. Why else would they just bring this in now out of the blue? 110 steps a minute, 4 metres distance apart, band poles etc are just filler. The drinking, flags and uniforms are the real reasons. Greengairs Thistle didn't parade with the OO for years, because of the stand they took. Are the grand lodge really ready to ban nearly every band on parade if they fly something other than what they say? Are the bands willing to take a similar stand? And what future legislation surrounding flags are the grand lodge privy too? As for the drinking, most bands have rules for being drunk on parade, I fell foul of my own bands rule once back in the day, £50 fine didn't do it again, but many a time I have seen lodge members in a worse for wear condition on parade. The street drinking is a council, PSNI issue. For the PSNI to enforce, but every year the grand lodge gets the blame.
I hear you, the thing about this as well for me is the fingers pointing back at the county from these measures. Lodges that carry alcohol in their vehicles on the 12th and distribute to lodge and band members for example? I really hope this isn’t a case of one rule for the “hired hands” and another for the “brethren”
I know what you mean, I have only ever done the Co. Armagh 12th, but if every lodge bus was like the one we took. There was always a bar set up on it.
Re the acknowledgment of county when parading seems like a personal thing like I’m county master see me…. Etc
I'm a member of Craigavon Protestant Boys, and former member of Clogher Protestant Boys and Avenue Road Memorial, been in the band scene for 11 years from the age of 15 and I find this incredibly worrying.
Obviously being a band from Lurgan, this does not affect us... yet.
I'm only a layperson, but it seems to me this document is the result of some agreement between the Orange and the government and I for one do not like it.
Bandsmen and women and Lodge members will be very familiar with the fact that it is becoming increasingly hard to do two things: Get the younger generation interested in joining our institutions, and preventing disillusionment among those already involved. Having a so-called "register" dictating what bands can walk where and when is not going to do anything to help these things.
Michelle O'Neill is the "First Minister-in-waiting" and it seems to me this document is simply doing her and her party's dirty work for them.
Very, very sad state of affairs.
Shocking..
100%
Absolutely shocking. Been in Bands all my life and the twelfth day was always the day to let your hair down and enjoy yourself. Any Bands man will tell you the twelfth day is their biggest day of the year and why a lot of people are in the band.
What about the likes of the Pageant that is run by a separate commiittee. Are the Orange Order going to bring this into play for that parade and punish bands for anything that happens on that day even know the Pageant is not organised by the Orange Order but they still take part.
Band Poles? Kids are the most important members of the band and it’s where they start off. Are we going to have to tell them use can walk but you can’t bring your band poles any more? Ludicrous.
How do this “Committee” come to a decision when approving or rejecting an application? What is it based on? The bands style, Their reputation, even their history within orange order parades? Surely that is discriminating against a band when the committee know nothing about the type of relationship between that band and the lodge they take.
Personally. If this is the steps the orange are taking then the Bands should just walk away. Bands can put in their own routes for the twelfth. It will be easier dealing with the Parades Commission than trying to adhere to this rubbish.
I’m being told a lot of these rules were in the contracts between lodges and bands already and they just weren’t enforced, having never seen one of these contracts, I don’t know if that’s true?
Currently this is only for parades under the Belfast County jurisdiction - I know that some private lodges there aren’t happy with this and the 12th route change, some members are even threatening to leave the OO over it.
You’re right kids are an important part and many start on band poles - sure let’s ruin the day for everyone as long as the master can’t be sued! Madness!
@@MadetoParade surely if members are threatening to leave then they should rethink the whole thing. The fact that bands aren’t going to be happy should have been enough incentive to scrap it as well.
How about the orange have their own parade and bands have theirs on 12th and see how both get on, bands register give me a break no band should sign this
As if the parades commission isnt enough to deal with! Terrible idea from the orange order shame on you!
Truthfully they are talking shite down to 2 men pushing this it's linked to the route change
Truthfully this is all to do with bands carrying regimental battle flags and again I'm pointing out this is not rank and file this is Belfast County working hand and glove with dirty tricks in the northern Ireland office and hand on heart absolutely nothing to do with rank and file
I’ve had a few more conversations with OO reps - honestly the flags are a secondary issue, but the fact remains that bands carry themselves with a great deal of decorum and parade constantly like that without the need for an agreed code of behaviour - I for one won’t stand by and let bands be the scapegoat for all the issues that occur on OO parades - the CGL need to take a look closer to home
@@MadetoParade well you are clearly up to speed with the band scene and you can make your own mind up believe what you like as an ordinary lodge member this is linked to the change of route that we are currently fighting against make no mistake it's same men behind it no one will convince me differently
It’s not by accident that both documents appeared at the same time - I do believe the register is a smokescreen for something else & I would rather the CGL come out and say what that is